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The Wizard
03-29-2010, 23:27
9 Tied to Fundamentalist Christian Militia Charged in Plot Murder Officers (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/30/us/30militia.html)

WASHINGTON — Nine members of a Michigan-based Christian militia group have been indicted on sedition and weapons charges in connection with an alleged plot to murder law enforcement officers in hopes of setting off an antigovernment uprising.
Enlarge This Image
U.S. Marshals Service, via Associated Press

Police officers guarded a home in Clayton, Mich., on Sunday after a raid.

In court filings unsealed Monday, the Justice Department accused the nine people of planning to kill an unidentified law enforcement officer, then plant improvised explosive devices of a type used by insurgents in Iraq to attack the funeral procession.

Eight of the defendants were arrested over the weekend in raids in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana. A ninth remained at large, the Justice Department said. The indictments against them were returned last Tuesday. The defendants were identified as members of Hutaree, described by federal prosecutors as an anti-government extremist organization based in Lenawee County, Mich., and which advocates violence against local, state and federal law enforcement. The group saw local and state police as “foot soldiers” for the federal government, which it viewed as its enemy, along with participants in what they deemed to be a “New World Order,” according to the indictment.

“This is an example of radical and extremist fringe groups which can be found throughout our society,” Andrew Arena, an F.B.I. special agent in charge in Detroit, said in a statement. “The F.B.I. takes such extremist groups seriously, especially those who would target innocent citizens and the law enforcement officers who protect the citizens of the United States.”

A law enforcement official said that the alleged plot was unconnected to recent threats against Democratic members of Congress who voted for legislation overhauling the nation’s health care system.

A Web site for the Hutaree group talks about a coming battle against the putative forces of the Antichrist but does not appear to focus explicitly on recent political events.

The Web site, which describes the group as “preparing for the end times,” featured video clips of people running through woods in camouflage gear and firing assault rifles, along with links to gun stores and far-right media. It also features an elaborate system of military ranks for its members. The site says it coined the term Hutaree, intended to mean Christian warrior.

“Jesus wanted us to be ready to defend ourselves using the sword and stay alive using equipment,” the Web site says, adding, “The Hutaree will one day see its enemy and meet him on the battlefield if so God wills it.”

The indictment charged that from August 2008 to the present, the defendants — led by David Brian Stone, 45, who also used the name “Captain Hutaree” — developed a conspiracy that they hoped would result in a war against the United States government. They allegedly decided they would kill a local law enforcement officer, and then bomb the funeral caravan. The killings “would intimidate and demoralize law enforcement diminishing their ranks and rendering them ineffective,” it said.

Afterward, the indictment said, Hutaree members would retreat to several “rally points” and wage war against the government, using prepared fighting positions as well as “trip-wired and command-detonated” bombs.

“It is believed by the Hutaree that this engagement would then serve as a catalyst for a more widespread uprising against the government,” the indictment said.

Mr. Stone used the Internet to obtain diagrams of “explosively formed projectiles,” a particularly lethal form of roadside bombs responsible for many deaths of United States soldiers in Iraq, the indictment said.

It says that he e-mailed diagrams of such devices to a person he believed to be capable of manufacturing them, and then directed one of his sons to obtain the materials to make them. It also says he and his other son taught other Hutaree members how to make bombs in June 2009.

Barbara McQuade, the United States attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan, said the government moved to arrest the members of the group this past weekend to short-circuit some operation it had planned to do next month, and which she did not explain in detail.

“Because the Hutaree had planned a covert reconnaissance operation for April which had the potential of placing an unsuspecting member of the public at risk, the safety of the public and of the law enforcement community demanded intervention at this time.”

All nine people face the charges of seditious conspiracy, attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction and carrying a firearm during a crime of violence. In addition, Mr. Stone and one of his sons, David Brian Stone Jr., has been charged with teaching the use of explosive materials.

The other seven people named in the indictment were Mr. Stone’s wife, Tina Stone, 44; his other son, Joshua Matthew Stone, 21, of Clayton, Michigan; Joshua Clough, 28, of Blissfield, Michigan; Michael Meeks, 40, of Manchester, Michigan; Thomas Piatek, 46, of Whiting, Indiana, Kristopher Sickles, 27, of Sandusky, Ohio; and Jacob Ward, 33, of Huron, Ohio.


Nine members of a Michigan-based Christian militia group have been indicted on sedition and weapons charges in connection with an alleged plot to murder law enforcement officers in hopes of setting off an antigovernment uprising.

In court filings unsealed Monday, the Justice Department accused the nine people of planning to kill an unidentified law enforcement officer, then plant improvised explosive devices of a type used by insurgents in Iraq to attack the funeral procession.

Oh boy... :wall: Just goes to show you not all the violent madmen are 9000 miles away across the ocean. They sound like the violent wing of the Teabaggers.

Husar
03-29-2010, 23:35
This is very worrying, the New World Order has finally started cracking down on our brothers and sisters...

But seriously, there are many of these groups in the US AFAIK, some more and some less violent, let's hope this won't repeat too often in the future.

gaelic cowboy
03-29-2010, 23:38
Idiots who deserve there many years behind bars and then some.

Subotan
03-29-2010, 23:50
Tumm tee tumm


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpNeHMlJiD4

Gregoshi
03-30-2010, 00:07
Morons with a cause...:wall: I was laughing out loud while reading the article until I remembered that these, ah, poor misguided individuals were trying to do really nasty stuff. I read the Gospels once and I missed the part where Jesus and his squad preached about IEDs, murder and revolution. I guess when the Anti-Christ comes, these folks aren't expecting to make it on the bus to heaven, so they'll have to stay behind and fight. And I think they stole their game plan from the playbook of Charlie Manson, except they only have two aging Beatles around to work with. :no:

Seamus Fermanagh
03-30-2010, 00:41
If you are gonna take on "the man," you had better be able to bring it a little better than this. Hopefully, if they're incarcerated long enough, they won't pass on any more of their genetics to the next generation. Sheesh.

ICantSpellDawg
03-30-2010, 00:59
This seems like a pretty clear case of sedition. Obviously I hope that this doesn't become an excuse to crack down on gun rights, but because this was such an obvious and distinct threat, I doubt that it will be.

Centurion1
03-30-2010, 01:45
god idiots.

and they didnt even go out in glorious battle as jesus so obviously told us all. /sarcasm

Louis VI the Fat
03-30-2010, 02:29
9 Tied to Fundamentalist Christian Militia Charged in Plot Murder Officers (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/30/us/30militia.html)

[SPOIL]WASHINGTON — Nine members of a Michigan-based Christian militia group have been indicted on sedition and weapons charges in connection with an alleged plot to murder law enforcement officers in hopes of setting off an antigovernment uprising.Who in the world could possibly be responsible for such a barbaric act?
:thinking2:




It is time for the 'moderates' of this violent ideology, this breeding ground for extremism, to speak out. These people are told daily that their government is going to enslave their children and turn America in a Marxist dictatorship. If that were true, it would be the patriotic duty of an American citizen to rise to arms.

Sasaki Kojiro
03-30-2010, 02:30
Who in the world could possibly be responsible for such a barbaric act?
:thinking2:


Nicely done :)

Strike For The South
03-30-2010, 02:48
Who in the world could possibly be responsible for such a barbaric act?
:thinking2:
.

Marry me

Right now

Louis VI the Fat
03-30-2010, 02:53
* hops aboard a plane headed for Paris, Texas *

Strike For The South
03-30-2010, 02:56
* hops aboard a plane headed for Paris, Texas *

https://img210.imageshack.us/img210/5673/agaywedding.jpg (https://img210.imageshack.us/i/agaywedding.jpg/)

PanzerJaeger
03-30-2010, 05:10
This seems like a pretty clear case of sedition. Obviously I hope that this doesn't become an excuse to crack down on gun rights, but because this was such an obvious and distinct threat, I doubt that it will be.

This worries me as well. All the leftists who run our government need is a pretext. IMO, they represent a far more prescient threat to our republic than fringe groups such as this.


Who in the world could possibly be responsible for such a barbaric act?

That would have been clever if: a) a barbaric act had actually been committed and b) the people weren't readily identified in the quote. Nice effort, though.

In any event, I'll wait and see how strong the federal case is against these guys before passing judgment. This is all very convenient.

Fragony
03-30-2010, 07:39
To be fair, it are only a few billion gun-nuts who ruin it for Panzerjagaer ;)

Megas Methuselah
03-30-2010, 08:19
Oh Panzer, you're amusing in a disturbing sort of way... :smile:

Subotan
03-30-2010, 09:30
This worries me as well. All the leftists who run our government need is a pretext. IMO, they represent a far more prescient threat to our republic than fringe groups such as this.
Heh, you had me going there for a second

al Roumi
03-30-2010, 11:37
To be fair, it are only a few billion gun-nuts who ruin it for Panzerjagaer ;)

:laugh:

PanzerJaeger
03-31-2010, 06:02
I'll be here all night, ladies and gentlemen. Remember to tip your waitress. ~:joker:

Meneldil
03-31-2010, 09:30
Well, it's now quite clear that religion is what's causing terrorism. I propose a bill that will restrict believers' freedom of speech in the Org. These people are going to try to destroy us and our way of life! :help:

The Wizard
04-01-2010, 18:04
Well, it's now quite clear that religion is what's causing terrorism. I propose a bill that will restrict believers' freedom of speech in the Org. These people are going to try to destroy us and our way of life! :help:

The sad thing is that if these were Islamic terrorists you'd have parties with serious electoral clout clamoring for this all over the West :juggle2:


That would have been clever if: a) a barbaric act had actually been committed and b) the people weren't readily identified in the quote. Nice effort, though.

I'd like to point out that planning terrorism is just as illegal under the Patriot Act as actually carrying it out is, buddy.

Lemur
04-01-2010, 18:15
I'd like to point out that planning terrorism is just as illegal under the Patriot Act as actually carrying it out is, buddy.
Planning to commit a crime is called conspiracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_%28crime%29), and has jack-all to do with the Patriot Act. Conspiracy is a crime. Period.

The Wizard
04-01-2010, 18:27
Case in point, nor does it change a thing. Though I do seem to recall the fact that "planning terrorism" (as a special kind of crime) specifically is also a crime in the U.S., though I may be mixing America up with a country like the UK or the Netherlands.

Seamus Fermanagh
04-01-2010, 18:34
Case in point, nor does it change a thing. Though I do seem to recall the fact that "planning terrorism" (as a special kind of crime) specifically is also a crime in the U.S., though I may be mixing America up with a country like the UK or the Netherlands.

Always was a conspiracy-class crime vis-a-vis some of the criminal acts themselves. Patriot Act created only a few new crimes but DID extend the penalties for many existing ones.

Source (http://fas.org/irp/crs/RS21203.pdf).

Subotan
04-01-2010, 20:53
Planning to commit a crime is called conspiracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_%28crime%29), and has jack-all to do with the Patriot Act. Conspiracy is a crime. Period.
Wait, does that mean if you plan to plan for a crime, you are committing a crime? And what about if you plan for the plan that you're using to plan your crime?

Gregoshi
04-01-2010, 21:30
Wait, does that mean if you plan to plan for a crime, you are committing a crime? And what about if you plan for the plan that you're using to plan your crime?
Then plan on going to jail.

"Tuba Son"...:laugh4:...:bow:

Lemur
04-01-2010, 22:00
Wait, does that mean if you plan to plan for a crime, you are committing a crime?
Yes, althoug planning to commit, say, murder, carries a lower penalty than actually committing murder. Conspiracy is generally a separate and less punitive category than the crime itself.

Crazed Rabbit
04-01-2010, 22:10
Hmm. Clearly these people are a few pages short of a KJV Bible.

On the one hand I think; do we still hand people for treason?

On the other I'm skeptical of the plans alleged. I'll be more convinced once I see actual proof I guess.

One note; seditious conspiracy seems like a good charge, but attempted use of weapons of mass destruction? Possessing a firearm during a crime of violence?

So far as I know, they hadn't yet attempted any bombings, and I wouldn't call conspiracy a crime of violence. Typical piling on of charges I suppose.

Finally, if I were to start some weird militia group, I'd call it the Fluffy Bunny Family Social Club and Junior Bowling League. The website would have little kids holding rabbits and other such fluff, to make it to absurd for the government to arrest us.

"Today the government announced the arrest of members of the Fluffy Bunny Family Social Club and Junior Bowling League for conspiring to topple the government. A reporter's visit to their website showed children holding rabbits and bowling shoe waxing information."
:clown:
CR

KukriKhan
04-01-2010, 23:16
On a side-story: That Stone fella apparently drummed up support and followership across the country. HERE's (http://www.awrm.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=32;t=000353;p=0) a forum post made by a disgruntled former Hutaree from Texas, on a Militia-friendly Board, from Oct, 2008.

Mooks
04-02-2010, 00:09
Something just doesnt sit right with me with locking people up for intent and not action.

Belisarius II
04-02-2010, 01:09
I love the part where the police found out about this group by visiting their website

Ah, America, I luv you!

PanzerJaeger
04-02-2010, 02:33
I'd like to point out that planning terrorism is just as illegal under the Patriot Act as actually carrying it out is, buddy.

Do me a favor, good buddy. Read the thread again and try to figure out why your response doesn't make sense in relation to my comment.

Gregoshi
04-02-2010, 02:34
Something just doesnt sit right with me with locking people up for intent and not action.
Yeah, they could be the Procrastination Liberation Front: the Revolutionaries of Tomorrow. ~D

Centurion1
04-02-2010, 03:28
^ lol.

conspiracy in something like this is basically like attempted murder. If police found my secret website where i have plans to blow up my school, etc. i should be arrested.

Seamus Fermanagh
04-02-2010, 05:50
Something just doesnt sit right with me with locking people up for intent and not action.

A reasonable concern.

In a court of law, the prosecution must prove more than simple intent. There must be evidence that the conspirators were acquiring the means and/or developing specific plans to execute the crime. Absent that, it's simply day-dreaming which is not illegal.

Banquo's Ghost
04-02-2010, 12:17
Yeah, they could be the Procrastination Liberation Front: the Revolutionaries of Tomorrow. ~D

Brilliant! Where do I join? (Although there's no hurry, but I will get around to it sometime).

Banquo's Ghost
04-02-2010, 12:17
Yeah, they could be the Procrastination Liberation Front: the Revolutionaries of Tomorrow. ~D

Brilliant! Where do I join? (Although there's no hurry, but I will get around to it sometime).

Lemur
04-02-2010, 13:17
Noplace else obvious to post this, so here we go: Sean Hannity calls tea partiers "Tim McVeigh wannabes" and they cheer. I must be missing something. Longer clip here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ani93EHvXcE). Yikes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mjnm-9XQ8Og

Louis VI the Fat
04-02-2010, 15:04
Noplace else obvious to post this, so here we go: Sean Hannity calls tea partiers "Tim McVeigh wannabes" and they cheer. I must be missing something. It sounds like sarcasm to me. It could be rephrased as 'All these teapartiers - you know, these people who are accused of being McVeigh wannabees by their opponents'.


Even so, if half the things the Conservative echo chamber says about the US government are true, then one really ought to overthrow the US government.
The US Liberation Front, that is, the tea party, should put its money were its mouth is. Overthrow this repressive Communist takeover via armed protest, or admit they're full of it and are only using seditious language to whip up their base.

PanzerJaeger
04-02-2010, 15:17
Noplace else obvious to post this, so here we go: Sean Hannity calls tea partiers "Tim McVeigh wannabes" and they cheer. I must be missing something. Longer clip here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ani93EHvXcE). Yikes.

He was obviously mocking the more extreme characterizations of the Tea Party movement. I'm sure that fact won't stop this from bouncing around the left wing echo chamber for at least a few days, though.

The Wizard
04-02-2010, 21:30
I think what Lemur was getting at was not the fact Hannity said it, but that the Teabaggers cheered. Though even to me it appeared like they started cheering before he said "Tim McVeigh wannabes".

Sasaki Kojiro
04-02-2010, 21:41
It is very obvious (he even ends with "as they say"). It seems like people taking it the other way are predisposed to assume the worst.


He was obviously mocking the more extreme characterizations of the Tea Party movement. I'm sure that fact won't stop this from bouncing around the left wing echo chamber for at least a few days, though.

:mellow:


Swap out "Tim McVeigh" with "Osama Bin Laden", and watch the Teabagger's go ape****. A terrorist is a terrorist, unless we share the same views and skin color as him/her. Sick.

Holy *****. I figured this headline had to be out of context or an exaggeration. The only explanation could be that the audience is so stupid they don't know who McVeigh was.

THERE WAS A ***** DAYCARE IN THE BUILDING. How about you defend a child killer some more you terrible person.


And this is what's focused on rather than him saying the bill (if that's what he's talking about) passed because of bribes and back room deals and corruption.

Seamus Fermanagh
04-02-2010, 21:49
Linkees?