Council thread

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Council thread for the Vandal Invasion game. Councils are mainly concerned with proposing edicts and amendments, and putting forth candidates for the position of Treasurer. Edicts and amendments may only be proposed while the Council is in session. The opening and closing of sessions will be announced in the thread. Unless stated otherwise in the list of one's rank powers, all edicts and amendments must be seconded by two other Players if they are to be put on the ballot.

Edicts and Amendments must be proposed in the proper manner.

Edict/Amendment A.B: Whatever I want my edict to say.

A would be the number of the session (1 for first and so on) and B would be the number of the edict in that particular session.

Example:
Edict 1.1: All Players must wear a sword while playing the game.

The First Council Session will start soon.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

While the faction is horde all Council meetings take place in a large decorated tent. Once the faction settles Council meetings will take place in a palace in the capital.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Event 1
"The Journey to Africa"


Rules:

1. During the first Event no one(FM's) can use "Settle/Occupy" option when capturing a city until Carthage is captured. All captured settlements on the way to Africa must be sacked.

2. The following settlements must be captured in the following order: Aquincum, Augusta Treverorum, Corduba.

3. When Player captures one of the target settlements he will receive reward. Rewards can be traits, ancillaries or units.

4. After Corduba is sacked all armies and agents in Baetica(province of Corduba) will be transported to North-Africa(Mauretania) using console commands.

5. The final target is Carthage and once it is captured the faction can settle down. Carthage can be sacked before settling down.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

The First Council Session is open!

It will stay open for debate and legislation until 14:00 GMT on Monday, April 12th, at which point there will be 48 hours for voting!

Make sure that your legislation is proposed in the proper way.
All legislation must be seconded by two people.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Duva stands..

King, Chiefs,

I am Duva. Many of you know that I will be representing our tribe when we deal with other nations and states.
Now, to the important matters we need to discuss.
I believe that we need to regroup our 6 camps.
First one should include most of our horse archers, heavy cavalry and should be led by our King Visimar.
Second one should include most of our heavy infantry, foot archers and should be led by Gondegusulus.
The last four camps should have equal number of everything that's left.

Also, what route shall we take. I guess going south through the lands of Sarmatians is not very good idea. Huns will probably use the same route and we do not want to face them so soon.

[Lord of Lent]

Maroboduus stands and asks permission to speak...

Kings, chiefs, elders,

My name is Maroboduus. As you may know, I am King Visimar's second son.
I am proud of my father and my tribe and I look forward to play an important role.
If you give me permission to speak like a worthy adult member of our great tribe, I will be able to help you.

When the elders, wise as they are, told me about our mighty tribe's history, I heard what our ancestors did more than 100 years ago.
They fought against the mighty Roman Empire and gained the land we *weeps* have to leave. Although I am eager to give those "Huns" what they deserve, I believe we should travel westwards and make those small tribes believe that we are the mightiest tribe in all Germania!

Maroboduus stops talking for a while. He leaves the tent to calm down. Then he returns to the council.

I am sorry I spoke to you like this. I believe we have to go to the west as soon as possible. We should send a scouting party; containing only the pride of our nation: our mighty cavalry. I suggest we send Duva, great be his name, south into Sarmatian and Gothic lands to talk about an alliance. This does not mean I'm a weakling; I do not hesitate to betray those tribes of inbred fools if they do not listen to our mighty will! We will be great again!

Maroboduus walks out of the tent without saying anything

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Duva stands again...

Young Maroboduus is right about going to the west. However, I'm not sure whether we should send a scouting party, containing our cavalry, there. If the Huns or Sarmatians should attack us we will be very vulnerable without our them.

[Hannibal Khan the Great]

Gondegusulus stands...

As the next ruler of our ancient and great people, I wish to do whatever is best for our tribe, even if drastic changes must be made. So what do we do when this vast horde of Huns blazes a path of misery and death through the steppes? Others must be made to deal with them first, otherwise we don't stand a chance.
Then we do whatever we can to avoid those human devils. By moving straight west, we can allow them to go towards the south, where they know they'll find greater riches. The forests of the west will also be a good deterrent. We shouldn't turn south until we get past the Sarmatians and Goths, then we can begin raids on the Romans.
Duva has brought up a good point in sending our powerful horsemen ahead of the rest of the tribe. Our army must use a combination of infantry and cavalry to succeed when we face such powerful and dangerous enemies. If one is caught without the other, disaster could result.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

By going west you mean going through the lands of Marcomanni?

[Lord of Lent]

That is exactly what I mean. What do you think?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Indeed. That is better plan than going through the lands of Sarmatians.
Marcomanni are relatively weak. If they should cause any problems then we can easily destroy them. However, Sarmatians could probably abandon their homes and become a horde. That is the last thing we want I think!

[Lord of Lent]

Maybe we should send them a little bribe? And if we ally with the ERE, we have someone to guard our backs.

[Madoushi]

Gildo stands

Father, brothers, esteemed elders and chiefs;
though I am not yet of age, and would not presume to instruct those older and wiser, in less than two years I shall ride amongst the head of our forces and bring steel and fletching into the hearts of our enemies.

I too feel we should head west, through the lands of the ignoble Marcomanni.
I think our armies would be best used together, that we might overwhelm our enemies with our combined strength, though we would sacrifice speed of movement for force of arms.

I would recommend we suggest to the Goths that the Huns are a common threat to us all - with entreaties of gold, if neccessary - and that we make overtures to the Franks, as we would not wish to make them feel threatened as we pass near their lands.

I make these suggestions with humility, and with the confidence this great council will wisely choose the best course for our great and peerless tribes.

Gildo bows, backing up to his seat and sitting beside his brothers

[Ibn-Khaldun]

So, I propose the following law:

Edict 1.1: Alliance will be signed with the Goths.

[Madoushi]

I second Edict 1.1

[Ibn-Khaldun]

[The proper format would be - I second Edict 1.1.
If there are multiple Edicts proposed then this way we can avoid confusion what edict is seconded. I-K]

[Lord of Lent]

Brother, I second Edict 1.1 too.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I would like to know what our king thinks about this as well.

[TheFlax]

King Visimar nods at Duva.

Indeed you have made your opinions heard and I am glad to see my sons, especially my younger ones, speak up their minds. Yet, we must not let fervor and passion, overcome the simply truth that whatever decisions we take today will echoe throughout our journey to a new homeland. It is with this in mind that I speak out against this proposed alliance with the Goths as a law. Relations between the people surrounding us are ever in flux and while I respect this council, I do not think this is a decision that should be taken by a group, but by a single person who can judge when it is best to make an alliance or not. Furthermore, in the coming years of our journey, for reasons outlined a moment ago, it will be important for the treasures of our people to be controlled by an experienced hand.

Thus I nominate myself, King Visimar, for the position of Treasurer.

He gives a wolfish smile.

Is there anyone who wishes to oppose this? Speak up!

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I have no objections with you becoming the Treasurer, my king.

However, having the Goths as our allies could help us once we reach the borders of the Roman Empire.
Allying with the Sarmatians will most likely drag us into war with the Huns while allying with the Goths will give us a buffer nation between us and the nomads.

[Lord of Lent]

Maroboduus returns to the council while King Visimar is speaking

Father, in my opinion, our humble treasury would be safe in your hands.
Although I would usually never even think about opposing one of your decisions, this time I will.
Forgive me father, but don't you see that the noble Duva is very experienced in maintaining relationships with other tribes?
I believe that an alliance with the Goths is essential for our survival for the reasons Duva and my brother Gildo told us.

Although there is a reason why my father, a wise man, is our king, he should not become arrogant for our tribe will not be able to survive if you do not respect the opinion of others.

This is what I think of your plans father, forgive me.

Bows respectfully and returns to his seat

[TheFlax]

Of course an alliance should not be discounted, but we should not be bound by law to create this alliance as many things can happen in five years. That was the sum of my argument. I do not oppose the idea, but the edict that sprang from it.

[Lord of Lent]

But with Edict 1.1 we make sure that nobody of our tribe will attack the Goths; if they would, an alliance would be impossible for many years with the Goths and their allies.

[TheFlax]

No one, my son, no one, is allowed to declare war on any other people without the consent of this body or my consent.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

This makes me think about what if someone do brakes the law.. decides not to follow the edicts?
I think a Codex Edict that determines the punishment for braking the law should be enacted.

[Madoushi]

As our King makes a good point, I would wish to retract my support for Edict 1.1[ and also to second King Vismar as Treasurer.

Our King is correct that we may not need a full edict in order to make an alliance with another state.

However, I feel at least one such alliance might be neccessary, not to deter our generals from attacking our neighbours, no, but to prevent our neighbours from attacking us.
Should the Huns, Goths or Franks turn their attention upon us as we lay waste to the Marcomanni, we could find ourselves in a hammer-and-anvil situation which could make our migration far more difficult.

However, I trust the wisdom of my King in this matter, and have faith that the gods have shown him the path to greatness.

[Hannibal Khan the Great]

Yes, I also second King Visimar for Treasurer. I'm sure my father is more than capable.Now let's take a look at the diplomatic situation overall. This is just speculation, but to me it seems most likely that the Huns will attack the Sarmatians, who will attack the Goths, who will attack the (Eastern) Romans. We will probably be facing down the Western Romans at some point, and they are allied with the Eastern Romans. The Goths could be a very useful asset in keeping the Eastern empire's attention while we attack the west. Therefore, an alliance with the Goths seems like a good idea, but we need to be flexible in these fast-changing circumstances. A full edict, in my opinion, is not necessary.

[Lord of Lent]

Duva, I agree with you. If someone thinks it is necessary to break our law, he should be punished. No exceptions! (Sorry father...)
Ladies (if you are allowed inside this council tent) and gentlemen, I propose the following laws:

Codex Edict 1.1: If someone breaks the law, he will be punished in a way the council thinks is best.
There is a special council of judges for people who break the law consisting of 3 chiefs or higher.; the King chooses one, the council the second and the third one.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Though I like your initiative according to the old laws(Rules) you can only propose one Edict or Codex Edict/Amendment. So, you either have to choose which one you propose or you can merge these Edicts.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Council Session is over!

Since Edict 1.1 and Edict 1.2 did not get enough seconds then voting is not necessary.

King Visimar assumes the position of Treasurer automatically since there were no other candidates.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Event 2
"Becoming a man"


Rules

1. There will be 4 challenges: riding, shooting a bow from the saddle, sword fight, wrestling.

2. All players can take part of this event.

3. The first challenges are riding and archery. Next ones are sword fight and wrestling.

4. There will be 2 NP characters to add extra competition.

5. For the first challenges each participant must send me a PM with 3 numbers from 1 to 6(2 beats 1 while 1 beats 6 etc). These will determine the outcome of the first two challenges.

6. Participants will be paired up for the last two challenges. The winner moves on to the next round. When you send the PM with the 3 numbers(from 1 to 6) participants should send another set of numbers in case they win and move to the next round.

7. The rewards will be traits/ancillaries that give bonuses close to the challenges that participant won(Example: Wrestler ancillary to the one who won the wrestling challenge).

8. Those who want to take part of this Event must say so in this thread.

[Lord of Lent]

I, Maroboduus, second son of Visimar, am eager to show my skills.
Since I'm an adult now, I want to prove I'm a real Vandal, just like my ancestors were!

[Ibn-Khaldun]

[In Character in this thread, please. In Character! ~;)]

[Madoushi]

I, Gildo, shall enter this great test of skills!
Win or lose, I only hope to prove a credit to my family name!

[TheFlax]

Good lad! I wish both you both, my sons, to triumph against your opponents.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Message from Duva...


King Visimar,

since your son, Maroboduus, became old enough to lead an army then perhaps he should take one of the captain led armies as his own?
Captains are not that trustworthy and thus they should be replaced when a better commander is available!

Duva,
near Vicus Quadi

[Lord of Lent]

I already did, noble Duva.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Messenger who took the note from Duva tries to be quiet but...

Actually, your taking the army is not 100% legal.
The law says:

Except as stated in Rule 2.5, all Players own all army units that begin a turn in a stack led by their avatar, in the garrison of a settlement they own, regardless of how the units got there.

However, I leave it up to the king to decide whether he allows this.

[OOC: Since TheFlax is the King and Treasurer I leave it up to him whether he gives that army to LoL or not. If TheFlax decides not to give that army to LoL then he can remove that army from his command.]

[Lord of Lent]

I'm sorry. But it seemed obvious to me because I would easily be killed with just one unexperienced body guard unit.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Well, but think about it this way... You will become a hero if only you and your companions destroy a Roman Legion!

Messenger smiled but realizing he is speaking in the Council without the permission he quickly retreats out of the room...

[Ibn-Khaldun]

On his way in to the Council room Duva noticed that his messenger is still in here. If he have some time later he will say some strong words to him bu now..

I am back from my journey and will stay near our tribe from now on since we are entering into Roman lands.
When I was near Aquincum I noticed a small Roman army near by. About half a legion of men led by a man called Hannibalianus.
https://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh311/ibnkhaldun/Vandal%20Invasion/capt_hannib.jpg
I don't know exactly what units they had because Romans did not allowed me to get close enough but I did noticed heavy cavalry and some Christian priests.
Also, I briefly visited Aquincum but the Romans escorted me outside the walls pretty fast. They said I was lucky that they didn't hang me as a spy! Can you believe this!
However, I did saw a unit of spearmen, limitanei as they call them, and some archers as well.
https://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh311/ibnkhaldun/Vandal%20Invasion/366s_aquincum.jpg
Hope this helps our tribe since our "master" spy is currently wandering in the wilderness and our "master" assassin just got himself killed.

Duva sat down after his long speech..

[TheFlax]

A message reaches the members of this Council.

Firstly, above all, I wish to congradulate both of my sons for their acheivements in the contest. Rumors have reached me of their prowess and it is my desire to tell each and everyone of you that I am incredibly rpoud of them. They will be fine leaders when my time has come and gone, but I fear we will need their skill even sooner.

I wish to announce with this message that we are now at war with the Western Roman Empire! This was not born out of my desire, but rather by dire circomstances. We I arrived near the roman city of Aquincum with my men, our supplies were low and we were weary of our long journey of many years. Thus, I sent an envoy to the Romans, hoping they would be more receptive now then when poor Duva met with them. My man was to tell them that we requested food, land and protection from the accursed Huns. In exchange, I offered the services of our people in their armies. I had thought that this way, we might both benefit and that our people would be finally safe after their long journey.

Yet the duplicitous Romans spat on my offer, throwing back the head of my hapless envoy over their great stone walls. My great host was enraged by this contemptuous act and so, with vengeance in our hearts with set about to surround the city and its paltry garrison, until they make ammends. In the meanwhile, we have convinced the inhabitants of the surrounding countryside to give us supplies and we have amassed enough to last a good while.

I hope that perhaps this misunderstanding will be resolved before the bulk of my people join me, but I want to be certain everyone will be wary of Roman attacks, in case things further degenerate.

King Visimar

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Huh.. I must the the lucky one then.

Anyway, I blame the governor of Aquincum for everything that may happen in the future to both nations. As far as I know Spurius Flavius is Christian and hates everyone who is not!

Duva takes his seat..

[Lord of Lent]

Maroboduus enters the room, wearing his battle armor

King Visimar, Father,

First of all.
While I was exploring the countryside, I found the barbaric village Campus Quadi.
It looks rather undefended and I am sure I am able to take it.

Do you grant me permission to sack this village and fill our treasury?

Secondly, I want to ask you, all council members, to change our army composition.
This may be very drastic, but my new trusty steed does not like foot soldiers (he actually kicked one of my servants while he was grooming him), so I would like an army with more cavalry. This will increase my movement speed also.

Lastly,

I want to bring it to your attention that our forces are scattered and that we, after we have conquered Aquincum, must continue moving as soon as possible.


Thanks for listening, now I have to go, my army is eager to smash some barbarbian brains!

Maroboduus waits for a reply, eager to sack the village.

[TheFlax]

My son, go forth and make me proud. I have transfered some horse archers to your army, in exchange for some of your best infantry. As I said in my report to this council, I am weary to make any one of our armies too weak.

Also, as I said in my report, we have won several good victories against the Romans near Aquincum, culminating in the sacking of that city. Their meager defense has made me realise that they would have a hard time fighting the Huns, even if we somehow managed to salvage some sort of peace with them. Therefore, we should push further into their lands and head Southwest, into lands with a better climate.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Duva stands up..

My king, I suggest we go to Gallia before heading southwest. I've heard that the lands there can provide us enough food to continue our journey further south.

Hmm.. Perhaps this should be discussed in the upcoming Council Session...

[Ibn-Khaldun]

The Second Council Session is open!

It will stay open for debate and legislation until 14:00 GMT on Monday, May 3rd, at which point there will be 48 hours for voting!

Make sure that your legislation is proposed in the proper way.
All legislation must be seconded by two people.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

To start discussion I have some ideas..

First, we should avoid Carnuntum. If an enemy controls the town then it's hard to get passed by it and that will slow us down. The outcome is that the Romans can bring fresh troops from Italy and we will have to fight a lot tougher armies than before.

Second, we should progress to west through the lands of northern tribes. They are much easier opponents than the Romans. Not that I'm a coward but we have a lot of unarmed people(OOC: Peasant units) who will be killed by the Romans if we proceed our journey through the center of their empire. Btw, that is Italy.

Third, we should try to concentrate our forces. As I have heard we are too spread out. Any enemy good take out one of our armies and that will be a great loss to our tribe!

[TheFlax]

Duva, while I respect greatly your diplomatic acumen, I have to disagree with this military proposal. Carnuntum is barely defended, even the North of Italy is almost defenseless, and this is an opportunity we have to seize while we head West. Now that we are at war with the Romans, we have to hit them hard repeatedly, before they mobilize and crush us under their weight in numbers. Furthermore, every Roman city we sack fills our coffers and those denars will be of great use when we finally settle.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Yes, my king, Carnuntum is barely defended but you can't say that to Italy. We have no reliable information about the heart of their empire. We can only guess.

Also, I will run to the position of Treasurer!

[Lord of Lent]

Maroboduus enters the council tent and takes a seat

Chiefs, brothers, father,

Firstly, I have to disagree with the noble Vismar.
We should go west as fast as possible and the northern tribes will not be able to resist our march.
The Western Roman Empire, lead my Emperor Valentinianus (if I'm right) is not as strong as it was a century ago, but not to be underestimated.
Although I'm eager to kill those toga-wearing lying cowards, I believe we should do what's best for our tribe.

Secondly, if my information is right, the Roman Empire of old is now divided in two parts. Maybe we should ally the Eastern Empire and give them some money to strenghten our relations and 'help them to understand those Western Romans are inferior'! If the Empires are fighting each other, we can easily sack the cities in Gaul and Hispania without them even noticing!

I have more to tell, but first I will wait your questions.

But before that, I propose Edict 1.1: (correct me if this is not right) We will ally with the ERE to cause a struggle between the two Roman Empires

[TheFlax]

It seems I was misunderstood, I never proposed we go into Italy proper, but I disagree about Duva's suggestion that I stop the siege of Carnuntum, he has admitted himself the city is easy pickings and it does lie on the path West. Actually, since leaving Aquincum, I had to move Northwest to reach Carnuntum, so this is by no means a foray into Italy proper.

Also, I am no hurry to wage war against other tribes. Remember, we have the whole of the Western Roman Empire against us, this is not the time to create new enemies. An alliance with the Eastern Roman Empire could be useful in that regard, but I disagree with the wording of your Edict my son. (I think it has to be 2.1 since this is the second session) The way you have proposed your edict, if the Treasurer fails to secure the alliance then he is breaking the law. Also, I will not support an alliance that cost us more than 2000 denars.

(OOC: I want to propose the following Rule Change to section "4) Game Management":

4) Game Management
At the start of each turn, the Treasurer will post a report on the events of the last turn, including a save game file for the new turn. After the report is posted, players will have at least 24 hours to download the save, and make their personal moves. Players can move their avatars, move any unit or fleet their avatar owns, and fight any battles against the AI that they are capable of fighting with their avatar’s army. Player may also move any unit, fleet, or avatar they have been given specific permission to move by the respective owner, as long as that permission is posted in a public thread. The Treasurer may extend the time limit beyond 24 hours at his discretion, but all players are encouraged to act as swiftly as possible to keep the game moving. Players may not move avatars or armies into the territory of a neutral or allied faction without the permission of an edict. Nor may they attack the settlements or armies of neutral or allied factions without a declaration of war resulting from an edict.

I suggest that the bolded part of the rule be changed to: "As long as the Vandals occupy at least one city, players may not move avatars or armies into the territory of a neutral or allied faction without the permission of an edict" )

[Lord of Lent]

I agree with the rule that we need the permission of an edict to move armies or avatars in allied territory. But we should be able to move through the lands of a neutral faction without the permission of an edict. If we have to propose edicts all the time it will slow down our movement speed.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I second Edict 2.1

[Ibn-Khaldun]

The Council Session is over!

Edict 2.1 did not get enough support.

Duva assumes the position of Treasurer automatically since there were no other candidates.

[Lord of Lent]

I know there is no council session going on at the moment, but I want to ask permission for killing the Alemanni faction heir. He is really slowing down our movement and Maroboduus is lagging behind.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

You can attack him only if the king declares war on them.

[Lord of Lent]

I know, Ibn. This was just a subtle way to tell theFlax to declare war on the Allemanni.
And I want to keep moving of course...

[TheFlax]

It does seem the Allemanni are standing in our way. Then go my son, destroy them and show them the foolishness of hindering our great journey. I hereby declare war on the Allemanni!

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Duva shakes his head...

I don't think this was the best solution to Maroboduus's problem.

(OOC: And who are those Ibn and TheFlax characters you speak of in the Council thread? ~;))

[Lord of Lent]

Maroboduus returns to the tent and hears what Duva is saying

What, he was in our way! The Allemanni are weaklings and they would be slaugthered by the other hordes soon enough. If we don't kill them, they will.

By the way, does anybody know where the Huns are at the moment?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I disagree! Alemanni could be used against Romans. If Augusta Vindelicorum is destroyed by our king Visimar then Alemanni have a chance to expand south. Perhaps raid even Italy! This could've bought us more time and Romans would've concentrated their war efforts against the Alemanni and not against us!

Also, your reasoning "if we don't kill them, other hordes will" is not very good one. If we kill them now then we make it easy for others to follow us and then, when we are tired and small in numbers, attack us.

I heard from some travelers that Huns and Sarmatians are still fighting near Sarmatian capital camp.(OOC: There is a huge black land near the place where Sarmatian town should be.)

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I have signed peace with the Roman Empire! This should give us some time to strengthen our forces and plan our next move. We also should deal with the Alemanni threat. Vicus Alemanni have quite large garrison and Hortar commands also rather large army.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

The Third Council Session is open!

It will stay open for debate and legislation until 21:00 GMT on Friday, May 28th, at which point there will be 48 hours for voting!

Make sure that your legislation is proposed in the proper way.
All legislation must be seconded by two people.

[The Celtic Viking]

A tall, blonde man, who looks to be in his mid-thirties, enters the tent. His clothing and armour signifies his status as a nobleman, and looking around the tent he quickly identifies Visimar. He bows his head to the king before speaking.

"Sir, I must inform you that I caught some of the men trying to steal some meat from the canteen. I have dealt with them in the proper manner, but I must advice you to take steps in order to make sure others don't get the same idea."

Turning to the rest, he raises his hand as a sign of greetings.

"Hail, comrades! No doubt you're wondering who I am, and why I so suddenly choose to make my appearance here. Well, my name is Boiocalus and I'm serving as an officer in king Visimar's own army. I have, so long as He will allow it, decided that I should utilize my right to attend these councils to voice my opinion on the state affairs. I ask you to forgive any crassness on my part: I am, after all, first and foremost a soldier; politics haven't interested me much until now. In all honesty I still find politics a most dreadful task, but the gods have proclaimed to me in a dream that I must enter it. Since I am not a man to question or deny the will of the divine, I am here, honoured to have been given this opportunity."

Boiocalus nods his head, signifying that his introduction has been completed.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Duva stands..

Welcome, Boiocalus. The Council needs the advice from such men like you. So, what do you think about our current situation?

[The Celtic Viking]

"I'm glad you ask.

Seen from a military standpoint - and I shall try to stick to it and leave the politics to you - it is, to me, pretty clear what we must do. Lord Visimar should lead his army west-south-west and engage the Alemanni prince. Captain Gaiobomarus should be able to assist in the attack, moving up from behind. Outnumbered and surrounded, and guided by lord Visimar himself, this is a battle we cannot lose, and one we can expect few casualties from. While lord Visimar is away, captain Tancred is qualified enough to continue the siege in the king's stead. This should take care of the Alemanni with the least possible casualties, and remove the threat of the Alemanni prince slamming into our backs to allow a sally. That wouldn't be a pleasant fight.

I trust that Gildo and Gondegusulus are competent enough to sack Aquincum without the need for my advice.

After that..."

Boiocalus sighs.

"... after that we need to figure out how to tackle the stone wall and garrison of Augusta Treverorum, not to mention the long journey through Roman territory. Since you've been there, how much resistance could we expect if Gondegusulus and Gildo, after sacking Aquincum, moves through Cisalpine Gaul? I'm thinking that, if possible, should be the best course for them, so that they can come from the east, while we move down from the north-east after the sacking of Augusta Treverorum. This, to me, sounds the wisest of actions, though we must of course, as always, be prepared to make changes to our plans."

Boiocalus looks like he's said his piece, but suddenly changes his mind.

"One thing though, that bothers me a little, is our lack of intelligence. We could really use fresh reports on the garrison of Augusta Treverorum, as well as any other Roman forces in the area. If a Roman soldier leaves his tent to take a piss, it is absolutely vital that we know about it! Why have we no spies or scouts in the area?"

[TheFlax]

Visimar nods in appreciation at Boiocalus.

"Well spoken! It appears that Oza has gone further West, while our armies are scattered at best. Hopefully my sons will up their pace, for we shall never reach our new home if they linger so. As for the Alemanni, your comments are well noted, I moved as such to pin their garrison in their city. If one of my captains takes my place for the siege, then it will be my pleasure to handle their Prince.

As for the Romans, Duva has worked hard for a peace with them, how soon will we be ready to resume an offensive? I see no other alternative once the Alemanni are destroyed, for we do not have the supplies to feed our people during this long journey without raiding Roman settlements on the way. As it is unlikely they will feed our whole people, war will resume soon enough, yet would should take care to be in a position of strength when we renew our attack. As such we should besiege multiple Roman cities during the initial attack, as to ensure whatever reinforcement they send will have to be spread out."

[The Celtic Viking]

"But, my lord, if we split our forces and besiege several cities at once, what of those who won't be blessed by your royal presence? Who will guide them to victory? Captains may be trustworthy enough to take care of supporting roles, such as flanking manoeuvres or holding up a siege, but can we really trust them to actually take command against a sallying enemy, or - dare I say - even an assault?

If not, who else is there to do it? I count one general who could make it here in reasonable time, but that only accounts for two armies, not 'multiple'. The other generals back east, Gildo and Gondegusulus, are too far away to make it to us in a reasonable time. We'd starve before they could come, and besides, they would be bringing even more mouths to feed. That was one of the reasons why I suggested they take a different route instead.

How would you solve this, sir?"

[TheFlax]

Visimar seems pensive.

"It is true that my sons are further then wisdom would call for. This is unfortunate. However, our brave fighting men should not be belittled. It is true I have crushed the Romans on several occasions, but our captains have won all of their battles. However, if it is feared that they will not acquit themselves in the most valorous capacity, then perhaps they could be sent to besiege poorly defended targets, it would serve the same purpose, but with less risk."

[The Celtic Viking]

"Very well, sir. If you trust them, then I agree with it. It's a sound plan. Now, if I may..."

Boiocalus clears his throat.

"I propose Edict 3.1: Oza should immediately move north into Gaul to spy out the Roman presence."

[Lord of Lent]

Marobuduus stands...

Boiocalus, it's good to see you! In the absence of my brothers, it is nice to have someone to talk with.

First of all: I second Edit 3.1!

Secondly, Father, did you ever consider to send an army northwards? A lot of undefended settlements are there and maybe we could send some of our captains there?
I will make sure I will follow you as fast as possible.

Thirdly, I would ask you to allow me to abandon my infantry. Our infantry isn't that powerful and experienced and it really slows me down. The infantry I abandoned can be used to sack the northern settlements. This way I wil be able to scout the area and clear the path for you.

Last but not least, I want to welcome Boiocalus to our council!

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I second Edict 3.1

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Duva asks something from his servant and then says..

The position of Treasurer is still open! Is there really no one who is interested from this office?

(OOC: The Council Session will be open for another 16 hours until we get a Treasurer. If no one wants it then I'll take another term in the office.)

[Lord of Lent]

I would love to. But until my saving problems are solved, I'd rather not accept the office of Treasurer. I'm sorry.

[The Celtic Viking]

Boiocalus steps forth.

"Thank you, Maroboduus. I am very pleased to be here."

Boiocalus bows his head.

"Now, if you don't mind, I have been doing some thinking. I do not mean to speak out of hand, nor do I wish to denigrate the worth of our captains, but I am still a little worried about them leading our armies. I think I have an idea that might put my mind at... well, if not at ease, then at least too preoccupied to worry. What I'm asking is that I might be allowed to stand in and command one army, when there is no proper general to command it. Visimar knows my worth, and I am sure he can vouch for my reliability and honesty.

I am asking that someone who are in a position to do so propose a rule change to allow this."

OOC: To clarify, the rule change I'm asking someone to propose is one that would allow me to command one captain-led stack for as long as it is led by a captain, or until I am removed from that charge in one way or another.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Duva stands...

Since there are no one who want the position of Treasurer then.. I will nominate myself to become the next Treasurer.

Duva looks around..

No objections? Good.

The Third Council Session is over then. Voting will begin soon.