Drugs! Drugs! Drugs!

[Lemur]

I'm feeling very left out of the drug scene here in rural Wisconsin. One of my neighbors has chronic pain from a motorcycle accident, so he's always high on Oxycodone. Says his doctors help him "manage" his inevitable addiction, which sounds scary.

One of the daughters of my police neighbor comes crying to my house 'cause her mom's on drugs. Great. A high cop. Wonderful. I tell the daughter that everything's okay (lie), that her mommy loves her (truth), and that she can come visit whenever she likes (truth). Then I find out that another neighbor, the one who listens to nothing but Rush and who always has Fox News on (visible from the street due to giant TV and lack of curtains) is growing his own pot and smoking it in large quantities. So I guess he's a pothead tea partier. Dude.

And here I am, utterly left out. I barely drink anymore, gave up smokes seven years ago, never got into prescription drugs and never got into illegal drugs. Hell, if I quit coffee, I'd be clean as a Mormon, which is kinda sad.

What's the drug situation where you live? Are you on any long-term medication? Are you dealing with addiction?

And since it sure looks as though everybody who wants drugs is getting them, why don't we legalize and tax this sucker?

[InsaneApache]

Just say NO!

[KukriKhan]

I just want to personally thank you for using the term "tea partier" instead of 'teabagger'.

I smoke. Tobacco. Alone, usually. And outdoors.

[tibilicus]

Drugs are so ridiculously easy to get hold of here in the UK (which I imagine is the case in most western countries) that they might as well legalise and tax it. At least then we could cut the deficit.

And no, I don't think it would lead to the world becoming one big crack smoking ghetto. The US has wasted billions if not more trying to control the drug problem in the Americas over the past 40 or so years and has achieved absolutely nothing. It's probably easier to get hold of drugs in the UK today than it was in the 80's and I imagine it's the same in America. There's always going to be drug users, at least if it's legal the rest of us can earn our own tax break of their stupidity.

[Lemur]

I smoke. Tobacco. Alone, usually. And outdoors.
Seven years on and I still kinda miss smoking. I wouldn't go back to it, but I reserve the right to feel wistful.

[Rhyfelwyr]

There are a lot of alcohol problems round here, the Scottish Parliament is wanting to go the route of Sweden and get a state monopoly on alcohol sales and hike the prices up.

I heard that parts of Scotland and Norther Ireland have the highest number of teetotalers in Europe, yet also the highest levels of alcohol consumption per person. You do the maths...

[Pannonian]

Drugs are so ridiculously easy to get hold of here in the UK (which I imagine is the case in most western countries) that they might as well legalise and tax it. At least then we could cut the deficit.

And no, I don't think it would lead to the world becoming one big crack smoking ghetto. The US has wasted billions if not more trying to control the drug problem in the Americas over the past 40 or so years and has achieved absolutely nothing. It's probably easier to get hold of drugs in the UK today than it was in the 80's and I imagine it's the same in America. There's always going to be drug users, at least if it's legal the rest of us can earn our own tax break of their stupidity.

I've said it before, but one way to make the war in A profitable is to put fewer boots on the ground, buy up the farmers' produce on the cheap, and sell the products back home.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

There are a lot of alcohol problems round here, the Scottish Parliament is wanting to go the route of Sweden and get a state monopoly on alcohol sales and hike the prices up.

I heard that parts of Scotland and Norther Ireland have the highest number of teetotalers in Europe, yet also the highest levels of alcohol consumption per person. You do the maths...

:mellow:


Buckfast does not seem to help. In a survey last year of 172 prisoners at a young offenders’ institution, 43 percent of the 117 people who drank alcohol before committing their crimes said they had drunk Buckfast. In a study of litter in a typical housing project, 35 percent of the items identified were Buckfast bottles. And the police in the depressed industrial district of Strathclyde recently told a BBC program that the drink had been mentioned in 5,638 crime reports between 2006 and 2009 (the bottle was used as a weapon in 114 of them).

A spokesman for J. Chandler & Company, which distributes the drink, said that Buckfast accounted for less than 1 percent of the alcoholic beverage market in Scotland and was being unfairly singled out. Nor, he said, is wine-making a sign that the monks of Buckfast Abbey have strayed from the teachings of St. Benedict, an accusation recently leveled by an Episcopal bishop.

“It’s always wise to remember that Jesus turned water into wine,” the spokesman, Jim Wilson, said in an interview.

[Rhyfelwyr]

:mellow:

Buckfast does not seem to help. In a survey last year of 172 prisoners at a young offenders’ institution, 43 percent of the 117 people who drank alcohol before committing their crimes said they had drunk Buckfast. In a study of litter in a typical housing project, 35 percent of the items identified were Buckfast bottles. And the police in the depressed industrial district of Strathclyde recently told a BBC program that the drink had been mentioned in 5,638 crime reports between 2006 and 2009 (the bottle was used as a weapon in 114 of them).

A spokesman for J. Chandler & Company, which distributes the drink, said that Buckfast accounted for less than 1 percent of the alcoholic beverage market in Scotland and was being unfairly singled out. Nor, he said, is wine-making a sign that the monks of Buckfast Abbey have strayed from the teachings of St. Benedict, an accusation recently leveled by an Episcopal bishop.

“It’s always wise to remember that Jesus turned water into wine,” the spokesman, Jim Wilson, said in an interview.

I have the good fortune of coming from the said Strathclyde region. It's weird... there are a lot of people of Northern Irish descent in my area that took an oath not to drink that was apparently popular over there, and yet the people living right next to them have died drowning in their own puke. I guess we don't do moderation here. :shrug:

In any case, I'm not a prohibitionist, the bolded part above being one obvious reason why. Although it's worth remembering that prohibition was much more tied to the early Labour movement that it was with religious movements in Scotland.

[Lemur]

Just to kick this conversation in the tender bits, would anyone care to form a cogent argument in favor of the war on drugs and prohibition?

As for the religious justification for drinking, I'm reminded of my convo with my fundie, teetotaling mother-in-law over whether or not alcohol should be served at my wedding: "He didn't change the water into diet cola, now did he?"

[drone]

Alcohol is my only drug. I'm not a fan of OTC or prescription meds, I don't take anything, not even aspirin or decongestants. I assume pot is easily accessible, but I don't really run in those circles anymore. There is a high school not too far away, I'm sure some pot could be scored with little effort. It's not obvious that anyone in the neighborhood is an addict, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Lemur, sounds to me like you need to start a meth lab. If you aren't going to partake, at least make some money out of it. ~;)

[Crazed Rabbit]

I'm feeling very left out of the drug scene here in rural Wisconsin. One of my neighbors has chronic pain from a motorcycle accident, so he's always high on Oxycodone. Says his doctors help him "manage" his inevitable addiction, which sounds scary.

Some people legitimately do need a lot of painkillers for constant pain. A bigger problem to me than some people consuming painkillers constantly is the attorneys and DEA going after doctors for prescribing painkillers (http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3778). The attorneys are looking to score convictions based on science they don't understand (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,133204,00.html), leading to people not being treated because doctors are afraid to do so.

Also, addiction may be overstated: (http://www.theagitator.com/2006/02/06/the-boston-globe-on-richard-paey-and-painkillers/)

What is lacking is not the way to treat pain effectively but the will to do it. For a quarter of a century, pain specialists have been warning with increasing stridency that pain is undertreated in America. But a wide array of social forces continue to thwart efforts to improve treatment. Narcotics are the most powerful painkillers available, but doctors are afraid to prescribe them out of fear they will be prosecuted by overzealous law enforcers, or that they will turn their patients into addicts . . . “We are pharmacological Calvinists,” says Dr. Steven Hyman, director of the National Institute of Mental Health.

The authors go on to state:

But at the heart of the debate is confusion about what constitutes addiction and what is simply physical dependence.

Most people who take morphine for more than a few days become physically dependent, suffering temporary withdrawal symptoms–nausea, muscle cramps, chills–if they stop taking it abruptly, without tapering the dose. But few exhibit the classic signs of addiction: a compulsive craving for the drug’s euphoric or calming effects, and continued abuse of the drug even when to do so is obviously self-destructive. In three studies involving nearly 25,000 cancer patients, [researcher Russell] Portenoy found that only even became addicted to the narcotics they were taking . . . “If we called this drug by another name, if morphine didn’t have a stigma, we wouldn’t be fighting about it,” says [researcher Kathleen] Foley.

More recently, The Feds have taken to having grand juries investigate activists who defend doctors with crimes (http://reason.com/blog/2009/04/17/federal-prosecutor-tries-to-si/print), and asking for gag orders (http://cjonline.com/stories/040508/kan_265279159.shtml)on those who defend the doctors. And then agents forced their way (http://www.kake.com/home/headlines/16907851.html) into the homes of patients.

People ought to be able to get whatever pain meds they need. I don't give a care if some people abuse the system. Better that than those in need not getting any relief. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PqfXc4XtXM&feature=player_embedded)


One of the daughters of my police neighbor comes crying to my house 'cause her mom's on drugs. Great. A high cop. Wonderful.

Good grief.


Then I find out that another neighbor, the one who listens to nothing but Rush and who always has Fox News on (visible from the street due to giant TV and lack of curtains) is growing his own pot and smoking it in large quantities. So I guess he's a pothead tea partier. Dude.

Well, hopefully that's another republican against the drug war.


And here I am, utterly left out. I barely drink anymore, gave up smokes seven years ago, never got into prescription drugs and never got into illegal drugs. Hell, if I quit coffee, I'd be clean as a Mormon, which is kinda sad.

What if you drink soda?


What's the drug situation where you live? Are you on any long-term medication? Are you dealing with addiction?

Lots of BC bud, in which I do not indulge.


And since it sure looks as though everybody who wants drugs is getting them, why don't we legalize and tax this sucker?

Why do you hate children so much? They'd just become addicted and then become crackheads. And it'd only take a week tops!

CR

[Myrddraal]

I'm naturally a little bit afraid of anything addictive. Forget about health consequences, the thought of being dependent on the intake of some substance my body doesn't normally need to function is enough to put me off trying drugs. Of course I drink, but I have gone great stretches of time without drinking and not even thinking of it.

[Lemur]

People ought to be able to get whatever pain meds they need. I don't give a care if some people abuse the system. Better that than those in need not getting any relief. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PqfXc4XtXM&feature=player_embedded)
Agreed 100%.


What if you drink soda?
You wanna know what's sad? I don't. Ever.

[Major Robert Dump]

I mix aspirin and melatonin, and throw in a shot of Nyquil and Red Bull when I really want to party.

[Mooks]

Right now in my high school weed is pretty much everywhere. Even the Student Association, chess clubs (I kid you not, my friend swears to baby jesus he sells to them), and similiar people with enough time on their hands to stay after school smoke marijuana. When I had dreadlocks people asked me for a hookup all the time when I walked down the street. One of my friends got caught stealing a aerasol can (The thing you spray to clean out keyboards), for some reason dont ask me why, the school sent him to the Renaisccance Academy. Basically a school they send all the troublemakers. They sent him in the "Drug intervention" program because they thought he was going to use the can as some sort of drug. Since then hes tried coke,ecastasy,and a variety of pills. He said he has access to pretty much everything now, its ironic.

Quit calling your neigbor a pothead. You dont know that, one drink doesnt make you a alcoholic so just because he grows that doenst make him a pothead.

[Prince Cobra]

Some words: I am unusually ironic recently. But drugs are really a sensitive topic and I am quite conservative here.



Even the Student Association, chess clubs (I kid you not, my friend swears to baby jesus he sells to them), and similiar people with enough time on their hands to stay after school smoke marijuana.



I am sure the chess club has come out with innovative ideas how to remove the enemy King from the game. :yes:


Then I find out that another neighbor, the one who listens to nothing but Rush and who always has Fox News on (visible from the street due to giant TV and lack of curtains) is growing his own pot and smoking it in large quantities. So I guess he's a pothead tea partier. Dude.


Just pray he won't dry his pot near a fireplace. Or worse, he could get an exhibitionistic leanings.

It' sounds funny when you are an ocean away, I know. More seriously, good luck!



And here I am, utterly left out. I barely drink anymore, gave up smokes seven years ago, never got into prescription drugs and never got into illegal drugs. Hell, if I quit coffee, I'd be clean as a Mormon, which is kinda sad.

No, you would call me so that we found a nice club of non-smokers and sober people. We are becoming a minority!


What's the drug situation where you live? Are you on any long-term medication? Are you dealing with addiction?

Well, Bulgaria and Eastern Europe in general is catching up to the Western standarts remarkably quickly in this aspect. I doubt anybody who wants to get drugs will have any problem with it in Bulgaria. However, I am still lucky not to clash this problem on daily basis. But I am not that optimistic for the future.

About addiction: fortunately, not. Perhaps the only similiar feeling I experienced was when I got Medieval Total war (I remember I spent my whole weekend playing it with only 4 hours for sleeping/per day) but fortunately, I put the things back under control before the beginning of the week. So no (much) more PC games and much more time on other activities. This forum is not really a bad addiction, although I sometimes realise I spend too much time here. ~;)

[Pannonian]

If you feel like you're missing out on the fun, don't feel sad. Just play some Tetris (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuHGr2THWGM) instead.

[Strike For The South]

I booze and I smoke my pipe (for the ladies)

I also take aderoal and concertia to help concentrate for exams.

Im hardly addicted to any of it though

[Fragony]

I sometimes smoke weed and sometimes some coke at party's, no medicines. Can't live without wine but that is love rather then addiction.

[TinCow]

For the legal stuff, two cups of coffee every morning and my wine rack is currently holding a little over 70 bottles. Scienter and I share a bottle a night about 5 nights a week. For the rest, I used to smoke a ton of weed, but haven't smoked at all for about a year and a half. I'd probably smoke more often if it wasn't such a pain in the ass to grow and if I knew a dealer. Essentially, I'm not smoking weed anymore because I'm too lazy. Go figure. :laugh4:

[Cute Wolf]

I never smoke anything or use any drugs.... (as smoke anything rather than tobacco, cat's brain, banana peels, or frog skin could potentially take you to the gallows here...) --> my Lungs are still very2 clean....

And if you count alcohol, I only drinks on some occasion, and I can go a long time without them (especially when their prices are high).... but If you must count any addiction... well, I was addicted to eating fried chickens, as I eat them nearly everyday...

[Louis VI the Fat]

Cigarettes and coffee are my drugs.


I used to drink a fair bit when I was still a student. Ever since I do not need a fully functioning brain anymore, I've mostly stopped drowning my brain cells in alcohol.

Had some pot when I was fifteen, got very sick from it, and didn't touch it since. Have never tried anything stronger, with the motto: 'I'll really like it, or really not, and either way will be a problem'.



One more vote to legalise and tax it.

Lastly, do watch out with alcohol and drugs. I've seen good people be destroyed by both. It is very dehumanising.

[Megas Methuselah]

NiQuil camouflages reality and keeps me sane.

[Csargo]

Cigarettes and coffee are my drugs.



Same here. I know people who smoke pot, but I choose not to smoke it. If that's what they want to do to have fun or relax I see no problem with it.

[Lemur]

Cigarettes and coffee are my drugs.
A classic—perhaps the classic—combination.

[Major Robert Dump]

Hey, I'm not gonna lie. If cocaine were legal and cheap I would totally be a coke head. But as it stands I will have to settle for Chicken Fried Steak and strong coffee.

[CountArach]

I fully admit to being a caffeine addict, I really do need a bare minimum of 4 coffee's equivalent in a day to get through it. Reaching 8 isn't particularly unusual for me and can lead to some hilarious situations when I go further and get a massive caffeine rush during uni classes. I drink quite regularly, more regularly than most of my mates, but I haven't done that in a couple of weeks and have made myself drive around a lot more just so I can prove to myself I don't need it.

I've never smoked cigarettes in my life and utterly detest the idea - plus being asthmatic from a very young age sort of puts me off the idea. However, I've tried marijuana a few times and it has had varying effects on me. First time did very little, and the third time was very mellowing, but the second time is an experience I will never forget that was so incredibly fantastic.

As for legalisation, I fully support the complete decriminalisation of drugs and instead focussing on rehabilitation and the drug trade. I suggest that anyone who wants to know more about how successful this has been in Portugal should read this paper (http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10080) (PDF file down near the bottom) by Glenn Greenwald.

[pevergreen]

Strongly against all drugs.

I avoid even Panadol/Panadine etc unless I can't walk due to pain.

Never had any coffee. Never had any alcohol. I hold my breath while walking past smokers. Cease talking to people I know IRL that do drugs constantly.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I can now believe that you are actually upset at people capitalizing your username... :sweatdrop:

[Megas Methuselah]

Pervegoon.... Wow. That's all I can say. Wow. I remember reading about someone saying you were Australian, but... that can't be right, can it?

[Myrddraal]

Where Beer Does Flow And Men Chunder (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNT7uZf7lew)

When I was in Australia I was fortunate enough to be invited to the Melbourne Cup Derby Day. The sun was roasting, but luckily there was plenty of beer to quench my thirst. Combine that with beer that goes down like water, and I think you'll agree I was in a desperate situation. After a few I asked if there was any water to rehydrate me. The barwomen looked very confused. Eventually they found some by draining some water off the ice keeping the beer cool. It had bits of label floating in it.

[The Stranger]

no smokes barely any drinks no medicine (unless it can save me from death, but im never sick so) no rock and roll... so obviously im addicted to sex.

[The Stranger]

i met pever. and hes not that bad. ;)

[The Stranger]

I'm naturally a little bit afraid of anything addictive. Forget about health consequences, the thought of being dependent on the intake of some substance my body doesn't normally need to function is enough to put me off trying drugs. Of course I drink, but I have gone great stretches of time without drinking and not even thinking of it.

same here... though i dont actually drink either :P if my average is one glass a week or above im surprised. i doubt i even make that, its prolly closer to a glass a month.

[rory_20_uk]

There are a lot of alcohol problems round here, the Scottish Parliament is wanting to go the route of Sweden and get a state monopoly on alcohol sales and hike the prices up.

That will mean masses of cheap(er) booze coming from England - and of course numerous stills.

Chronic pain shouldn't be treated with opiates alone. It's much better to use a mix along with tricyclics, NSAIDs and dear old Paracetamol; a TENS machine is also quite good.

~:smoking:

[LittleGrizzly]

Cannabis, Caffiene and Cigerettes. My body doesn't seem to take to kindly to drugs so I only really take the light ones... (ok cigerettes are really bad but on a long term time scale) I haven't drunk alcohol for over a year and im in no rush to have anymore as alcohol messes me up far worse than any of the A or B class drugs do... (although im not referring to heroin or crystal meth)
The three C's are an everyday thing for me though... can be a bit overwhelming when I kick off the day first thing with a combo of all three...

Its insanity not to legalise and tax it, there are only beneifts to doing so (apart from losing the election for daring to enact such sensible policy)

[al Roumi]

Personally, I'm quite fond of Meths. I'm glad it can be used to clean paint too, or my habit might cost me more.

[Furunculus]

booze and cigs.

i have two or three beers of an evening, why not, it's more fun than fruit-juice
i have a cig with the beer.

i have a coffee before work, and that's about it.

don't take an prescription meds for altering mood or controlling pain, and don't smoke weed or do any illegal drugs.

[rory_20_uk]

Personally, I'm quite fond of Meths. I'm glad it can be used to clean paint too, or my habit might cost me more.

I really hope that's a joke. The metabolites cause blindness, liver damage and brain damage - amonst other things.

~:smoking:

[Megas Methuselah]

I really hope that's a joke. The metabolites cause blindness, liver damage and brain damage - amonst other things.

~:smoking:

Yeah, I'm actually a bit dangerous for your health, but pretty addictive.

[al Roumi]

I really hope that's a joke. The metabolites cause blindness, liver damage and brain damage - amonst other things.

Oh, I put that down to the self gratification i was over-indulging in. Is White spirit any better, it's clear so it must be more free of nasties right?

[miotas]

I regularly have a drink or two of an afternoon or evening, get drunk on occasion, take paracetamol for headaches and bad colds, the smell of ciggies makes me feel like throwing up, never have caffeine since most things it's in taste foul, I've never had anything illegal because I can't be bothered and I've nothing against potheads since I regularly partake of a far more dangerous substance.

[Megas Methuselah]

I regularly have a drink or two of an afternoon or evening, get drunk on occasion, take paracetamol for headaches and bad colds, the smell of ciggies makes me feel like throwing up, never have caffeine since most things it's in taste foul, I've never had anything illegal because I can't be bothered and I've nothing against potheads since I regularly partake of a far more dangerous substance.

A real man. Coffee is an acquired taste, though. It's pretty good.

[LittleGrizzly]

Coffee is foul.. my caffiene is consumed from coca cola, gods gift to liquid refreshment!

[ajaxfetish]

What's the drug situation where you live? Are you on any long-term medication? Are you dealing with addiction?

And since it sure looks as though everybody who wants drugs is getting them, why don't we legalize and tax this sucker?
I'm clean as a Mormon (is that sad?).

I've got a couple friends who smoke, but I'm unaware of anything more on the local drug scene. Of course, I've never been the most observant fellow. I've heard plenty of people make arguments in favor of the war on drugs. I'm not sure any of them were coherent. I'm undecided on harder drugs, but marijuana should definitely be decriminalized and taxed as soon as possible.

Ajax

[Husar]

I had a 0.5l bottle of beer yesterday, and it had quite a bit of an effect on me, which just goes to show I didn't drink a lot of alcohol lately (last 6 months or more).
I drink coffee occassionally, some Cappuchino at work, but partly because it's better than eating the sugar without it...

I can't really go for long without drinking water though but even that I don't take enough of often, simply because I forget, if nothing else. :shrug:

[a completely inoffensive name]

Nothing for me. It's bad to drink and troll.

[Cute Wolf]

Nothing for me. It's bad to drink and troll.

drink olog hai's brewery then..... :clown:
Made from brewed human blood, mixed with burnt crops...

[pevergreen]

I can now believe that you are actually upset at people capitalizing your username... :sweatdrop:
Yeah, it gets to me...I'm probably not right mentally. May get checked out soon.


Pervegoon.... Wow. That's all I can say. Wow. I remember reading about someone saying you were Australian, but... that can't be right, can it?

I'm not a normal Australian with the stereotype, no.


Where Beer Does Flow And Men Chunder (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNT7uZf7lew)

When I was in Australia I was fortunate enough to be invited to the Melbourne Cup Derby Day. The sun was roasting, but luckily there was plenty of beer to quench my thirst. Combine that with beer that goes down like water, and I think you'll agree I was in a desperate situation. After a few I asked if there was any water to rehydrate me. The barwomen looked very confused. Eventually they found some by draining some water off the ice keeping the beer cool. It had bits of label floating in it.


Thats Melbourne Cup day for you. Of course, if you had come on a normal weekend, many a bloke would be drinking that much anyway. Barwoman probably looked confused because you could go get water from a tap or something. Wouldn't know, only been to a bar twice. Once while underage, I had a nice lemonade, and once on the morning (12:02 am) of the day I turned 18 and I had another lemonade. Not my scene. Smell of alcohol disgusts me.

[miotas]

It's probably because you were at the races, I've gotten glasses of water from actual bars before without any confusion.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Drugs have always been pervasive in society. I live in white suburban conservative town. Cops uncovered a bunch of ecstasy pushing kids (like 7-9 of them) in my school. For the most part, a lot of parents fail to check in with their kids and conservative gov makes it so that kids have nowhere to go or do in the town. Oh you want an arcade? Well, tough luck because that gathers kids and when kids gather, drugs are exchanged. Because obviously when the kids dont gather at a place where there is something to do, then they wont gather at all and look for other ways to entertain themselves.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Hmmmm....arguing in favor of a war on drugs/for the benefits of prohibition. Bit of a challenge that.


Prohibition of alcohol does appear to engender a number of health benefits.

1. The improvement of child growth and development in areas where prohibition is enforced. Source (http://www.cid.harvard.edu/neudc07/docs/neudc07_s3_p01_cohen.pdf)

2. During the prohibition era, there were fewer traffic fatalities per capita and decreased prison populations. Source (http://books.google.com/books?id=SoloDN56N-8C&pg=PA198&lpg=PA198&dq=prohibition+%22positive+impact%22&source=bl&ots=nQ_0IvObci&sig=ZHvK2yNdd4zyA873NAEGATSYpTQ&hl=en&ei=xFO9S-KHBYqesgOHoIHcBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CCoQ6AEwBzg8#v=onepage&q=prohibition%20%22positive%20impact%22&f=false) esp. p. 205

3. It takes a clear moral stance as to what behaviors are and are not acceptable in a society.


This is not easy.....

[CountArach]

3. It takes a clear moral stance as to what behaviors are and are not acceptable in a society.


This is not easy.....
Ah, but that presumes that the government is the final arbiter of a society's standards and have the right to enforce these.

[A Very Super Market]

You can't get BC bud any easier than in BC itself.....

I have plenty of friends who have spent entire weeks totally baked, and come to school red eyed and dreamy. I can't say it isn't fun to mess with them.

For fear of being messed with, I have never smoken pot, or crack cocaine, as some of them do.

[rory_20_uk]

Moderate use of alcohol is beneficial to the body. Almost everything is a poison if overdosed with. Too much Oxygen or water will kill you.

~:smoking:

[Pannonian]

Moderate use of alcohol is beneficial to the body. Almost everything is a poison if overdosed with. Too much Oxygen or water will kill you.

~:smoking:

Not just alcohol either. For instance, several pints of ale, taken occasionally, should not be harmful to one's health, but one bottle of Bud Light has the potential to kill. Or should do, if one has any taste buds. The Prohibitionists had the right idea, but they were decades ahead of their time, and mistakenly applied the idea across the board instead of select makes of beer.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Ah, but that presumes that the government is the final arbiter of a society's standards and have the right to enforce these.

No, it presumes that the government is the expression of the collective will of the people regarding societal standards and their enforcement.

Having read me post for years, you are well aware of all the problems I have with THAT little attitude.

As I have something of a libertarian streak, I have actually been an advocate of de-criminalizing most of it. I have never personally used any illegal drugs, have smoked only 5-6 cigars during my 20s and early 30s, and average about 7-10 drinks per month. I think that people who WANT to use most of these substances are setting themselve up for epic failure on other levels -- but I have a great deal of problem with the government legislating my choice for them. Barring direct harm to others, I think its more of a personal choice issue.

Regarding government policing efforts in our "war" on drugs, we have never taken the steps that would be needed to really make it effective. If a market exists, it will be serviced -- that's capitalism in action. Unless we curtail the market through education and draconian enforcement of heavy penalties against the users of these products, we have as much chance of winning this "war" as Brer Rabbit had of defeating the tar-baby.

[Pannonian]

No, it presumes that the government is the expression of the collective will of the people regarding societal standards and their enforcement.

Having read me post for years, you are well aware of all the problems I have with THAT little attitude.


Did you really write such a long post that CountArach would have had to spend years reading it? Perhaps it's just me miscomprehension.

[Tellos Athenaios]

@Seamus Fermanagh: in order to do the “war on drugs” properly you would have to start a “war on guns”, because without the latter the various drug cartels will remain sufficiently powerful to fight the former.

[drone]

Not just alcohol either. For instance, several pints of ale, taken occasionally, should not be harmful to one's health, but one bottle of Bud Light has the potential to kill. Or should do, if one has any taste buds. The Prohibitionists had the right idea, but they were decades ahead of their time, and mistakenly applied the idea across the board instead of select makes of beer.

Actually, Bud Light is a direct consequence of Prohibition. Prior to Prohibition, the US had some of the best beer in the world. Prohibition killed off the small local brewers, and all we were left with were the national, corporate brews. If I'm not mistaken, the popularity and subsequent ban of the wacky weed was also Prohibition-related. Worst...Amendment...Ever.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I actually hate the 16th and 17th nearly as much, but the 18th really was a weiner.

[LittleGrizzly]

I thought the weed prohibition was more profit and immigrant related.. or did alcohol prohibition show 'it can work' so made it more likely.... (or are you on about some other drug altogether ?)

[drone]

There were a lot of reasons for the 1937 Tax Act. One of the theories is that a decent percentage of potential booze hounds switched to weed during prohibition, and didn't go back after the repeal. The recovering beverage industry wanted their customers back, and pushed for the ban. Alongside the anti-Mexican sentiment and the fear that pot would force hip black jazz musicians to violate white girls and kill their boyfriends. ~:rolleyes:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

There were a lot of reasons for the 1937 Tax Act. One of the theories is that a decent percentage of potential booze hounds switched to weed during prohibition, and didn't go back after the repeal. The recovering beverage industry wanted their customers back, and pushed for the ban. Alongside the anti-Mexican sentiment and the fear that pot would force hip black jazz musicians to violate white girls and kill their boyfriends. ~:rolleyes:

Sadly we did have a small percentage of loons who truly believed that last point -- and far more who were willing to use it as an excuse.

[Fixiwee]

See I think drugs have done good things for us, I really do.
And if you don't believe that drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor.
Go home tonight, take all your albums, all your tapes, and all your cds and burn them.
'Cause you know what, the musicians who made all that great music that has enhanced your lives throughout the years?
Real ******* high on drugs.

-Billy Hicks

[Scienter]

Another vote for legalize and tax.

My drugs of choice are coffee and wine. I've been down to one (large) cup of coffee a day for a few years now, but I'd die without it. I've been on Vicodin (made me nauseous) and Percoset (really :daisy:ed up dreams) and hated both, I'd never take them for fun! I had IV Dilaudid when I had my appendix out and let me tell you, it was awesome. If that stuff came in pill form, I'd probably have a problem. :laugh4:

[Vuk]

I'm feeling very left out of the drug scene here in rural Wisconsin. One of my neighbors has chronic pain from a motorcycle accident, so he's always high on Oxycodone. Says his doctors help him "manage" his inevitable addiction, which sounds scary.

One of the daughters of my police neighbor comes crying to my house 'cause her mom's on drugs. Great. A high cop. Wonderful. I tell the daughter that everything's okay (lie), that her mommy loves her (truth), and that she can come visit whenever she likes (truth). Then I find out that another neighbor, the one who listens to nothing but Rush and who always has Fox News on (visible from the street due to giant TV and lack of curtains) is growing his own pot and smoking it in large quantities. So I guess he's a pothead tea partier. Dude.

And here I am, utterly left out. I barely drink anymore, gave up smokes seven years ago, never got into prescription drugs and never got into illegal drugs. Hell, if I quit coffee, I'd be clean as a Mormon, which is kinda sad.

What's the drug situation where you live? Are you on any long-term medication? Are you dealing with addiction?

And since it sure looks as though everybody who wants drugs is getting them, why don't we legalize and tax this sucker?

If you are sure, why don't you do your duty and report him? Then instead of winking at illegal activity and taxing it, we can stop it.

[Strike For The South]

If you are sure, why don't you do your duty and report him? Then instead of winking at illegal activity and taxing it, we can stop it.

He's smoking a bit of weed in his own home. Lets take it down a notch Johnny law

[Lemur]

If you are sure, why don't you do your duty and report him? Then instead of winking at illegal activity and taxing it, we can stop it.
I'm sorry, it's my "duty" to report a non-violent, victimless activity that transgresses a law with which I profoundly disagree? If you're looking for a totalitarian state where neighbors turn each other in for the love of the Great Leader, I think you meant to check out North Korea.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I'm sorry, it's my "duty" to report a non-violent, victimless activity that transgresses a law with which I profoundly disagree? If you're looking for a totalitarian state where neighbors turn each other in for the love of the Great Leader, I think you meant to check out North Korea.

And its never been easier! See here (http://koryogroup.com/).

[Crazed Rabbit]

If you are sure, why don't you do your duty and report him? Then instead of winking at illegal activity and taxing it, we can stop it.

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

No, you can't. No one can.

And let only the people harmed by a crime report it.

CR

[Seamus Fermanagh]

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

No, you can't. No one can.

And let only the people harmed by a crime report it.

CR

The idea that crime should only be reported by those harmed thereby has a few flaws CR. At least in the case of violent crimes, even those not harmed are better served by reporting them and getting the miscreats dealt with.

I believe that a war on drugs is winnable -- but that the entity that could win such a war would not resemble the republic I love.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Yeah, the idea has flaws. Maybe something like, "Only report crimes where a person is harmed" would have less.

CR

[naut]

Drugs? Almost everywhere here, if you know where to look.


I thought the weed prohibition was more profit and immigrant related.. or did alcohol prohibition show 'it can work' so made it more likely.... (or are you on about some other drug altogether ?)
To cut a long story short it's to do with the timber industry at the turn of the 1900s. Hemp can be used for paper, but the timber industry obviously didn't want that to happen, and lobbied for the ban of all species of cannabis. So much for free market. :wink2:

[Idaho]

Lots of coffee and tobbacco addicts on the thread. I can't tolerate the former (gives me the jitters) and I quit the latter after 15 years of tickling myself and scratching the same itch.

I have tried pretty much everything over the years. Opiates would suit me just fine if I was daft enough to take them again. Stimulants are always fun on the way up, and horrible on the way down. Cocaine is very similar to the nicotine tickle-and-scratch cycle. I don't do any of them any more.

Alcohol and cannabis are my vices. Never on a school night, only in moderation, and always of the highest quality. Drugs are important to us humans. They are part of who we are and what we like. But as we all know there are all kinds of issues and problems to do with dependance, side-effects, self-destructive behaviour. It's a shame we have to add criminalisation, high prices, and money-for-drugs crime to the mix.

Here in the UK the crappier tv channels have a lot of 'real life cop' programmes. Reportage of police going about their daily duties. What's telling about it is that 95% of their work is about drugs - and the majority being the side effects of alcohol (fights/people passed out/noise and disorder). The non-alcohol drug work they do is usually to do with arresting otherwise orderly (but often sad and hopeless) people for possession or low level dealing.

[Crazed Rabbit]

From News of the Weird (http://www.newsoftheweird.com/archive/nw100404.html):

More Texas Justice: In March, juries in Smith County and Matagorda County sentenced Henry Wooten and Melvin Johnson III to 35 years and 60 years in prison, respectively, for possessing small amounts of drugs (but enough under Texas law to allow jurors to infer an intent to distribute). Wooten, 54, had 4.6 ounces of marijuana (same penalty as for 5 pounds), and Johnson had 1.3 grams of crack cocaine (about half the weight of a U.S. dime). (Wooten's prosecutor actually had asked the jury for a sentence of 99 years.) [Tyler Morning News, 3-5-10] [Houston Press, 3-11-10]

:dizzy2:

Insanity.

CR

[Myrddraal]

An aside about cop shows: we get both the UK cop shows and the US "Wildest police chases" here in the UK when Channel five are running out of stuff to fill the schedule. The contrast is hilarious. In the US you film high speed pursuits down the wrong side of the motorway with tyres being shot out by machine guns. Each clip ends with some wise crack "This man thought running from the cops would be fun, now he'll learn the fun you can with two gunshot wounds and 15 years behind bars!" In the UK we get to watch PC Plod pull over Ryan (who he knows well) for driving without his licence again. Each clip ends wih an interview with the copper involved "We know Ryan well, this is the fith time we've stopped him for driving despite his ban. We keep warning him that if he keeps being a naughty boy he'll have to spend the night at the station, but he never learns"

[rory_20_uk]

But he has learnt - that laws are all but optional: odds of getting caught having nicked a car are relatively low, and getting caught means the downside of an uncomfortable bed. Hardly a massive deterrent, is it?

~:smoking:

[Pannonian]

An aside about cop shows: we get both the UK cop shows and the US "Wildest police chases" here in the UK when Channel five are running out of stuff to fill the schedule. The contrast is hilarious. In the US you film high speed pursuits down the wrong side of the motorway with tyres being shot out by machine guns. Each clip ends with some wise crack "This man thought running from the cops would be fun, now he'll learn the fun you can with two gunshot wounds and 15 years behind bars!" In the UK we get to watch PC Plod pull over Ryan (who he knows well) for driving without his licence again. Each clip ends wih an interview with the copper involved "We know Ryan well, this is the fith time we've stopped him for driving despite his ban. We keep warning him that if he keeps being a naughty boy he'll have to spend the night at the station, but he never learns"

Don't laugh at routine policework just because it seems so homely. This (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlp9DHKDg6c&feature=related) is proof that trying to break up a domestic row can turn tragic. Warning: footage of civilians being shot by officers.

[Idaho]

But he has learnt - that laws are all but optional: odds of getting caught having nicked a car are relatively low, and getting caught means the downside of an uncomfortable bed. Hardly a massive deterrent, is it?

~:smoking:

That's because the deterrent theory of punishment is nonsense on a number of levels, but appeals to home-counties curtain-twitchers.

[Myrddraal]

That's because the deterrent theory of punishment is nonsense on a number of levels, but appeals to home-counties curtain-twitchers.

I guess it depends on the severity of the crime. I don't know any studies on this, but I would theorise that for petty crimes it can be effective, but for anything remotely serious it fails to be a deterrent on the basis that in the psychology of the criminal they believe they won't be caught anyway, if they did they wouldn't go ahead. However for petty offenses like speeding, combine effective average speed checks on motorways with a hefty fine and I'm sure you'd see speeding disappear overnight.

[HoreTore]

The only drug I touch is Paracetamol, and I think I can count the number of times I've taken it on one hand.

I stay as far away as I can from anything coming out of the drug industry.

[LittleGrizzly]

Here in the UK the crappier tv channels have a lot of 'real life cop' programmes. Reportage of police going about their daily duties. What's telling about it is that 95% of their work is about drugs - and the majority being the side effects of alcohol (fights/people passed out/noise and disorder). The non-alcohol drug work they do is usually to do with arresting otherwise orderly (but often sad and hopeless) people for possession or low level dealing.

The difference is startling and obvious... or it should be... but still countless middle class parents are worried about these scary drug things but have had a drink a few times and thats just harmless fun that you have to be resposible with. I swear that it must require physical effort to remain so ignorant and unmovable in the face of all evidence to the contary...

I have heard that the man to blame is William Randolph Hurst... I was just wondering where prohibition fitted into it...

(Wooten's prosecutor actually had asked the jury for a sentence of 99 years.)

I don't like to wish people ill... but with any luck this mans life and family will be ravaged by alcohol...

(Wooten's prosecutor actually had asked the jury for a sentence of 99 years.)

[Idaho]

I guess it depends on the severity of the crime. I don't know any studies on this, but I would theorise that for petty crimes it can be effective, but for anything remotely serious it fails to be a deterrent on the basis that in the psychology of the criminal they believe they won't be caught anyway, if they did they wouldn't go ahead. However for petty offenses like speeding, combine effective average speed checks on motorways with a hefty fine and I'm sure you'd see speeding disappear overnight.

This is why the deterrant principle is fundamentally unjust. The forces of law and order can only arrest 5% of criminals, and successfully prosecute 2%. Therefore according to deterrant theory, the actual punishment must be more severe on those caught to 'compensate'. Ergo the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

[Megas Methuselah]

If you are sure, why don't you do your duty and report him? Then instead of winking at illegal activity and taxing it, we can stop it.

WOW, who is this guy? Lucky for me, NiQuil is sold over the counter; all the same, stay the hell away from me! :laugh4:

[Mooks]

The drug situation around here is better then I thought. Yesterday I got a ride home from someone that sells marijuana, after talking to him a while he said this funny quote...

"Ya, im tired of people talking **** all the time, then 10 minutes later having their parents call me up and I sell to them. You know how many times when I was handing them the bag and got the money that I wanted to tell them straight to their face 'Your sons a little bitch' ?"