New Car

[Reenk Roink]

So I should graduate soon enough and my incredibly cool parents have given me a nice budget with to enjoy myself a bit and get a car! :balloon2::balloon2::balloon2: :2thumbsup::2thumbsup::2thumbsup:

Now the budget is quite generous, so I'm thinking to splurge a bit and get something really nice. I've been driving a 2005 Camry which is all good and functional, but I want to try one of those classy European cars like a Saab or Audi (the cheaper models of them - something $35K or less). Haven't done much research so I was wondering if someone else has one of these or another suggestion. Europeans, now is your chance to influence American life. :beam:

P.S: Please don't whine that I'm not buying American. I remember a couple years back I was eating at a Chinese Restaurant and this old guy said really loud something like "no American president has said it's unpatriotic to not buy American." :rolleyes:

[Sarmatian]

When it comes to cars, it's a sensible decision not to buy American.

Secondly, Saab is not classy.

I'm not sure about prices of the European cars in the US but Audi A3 is always a sensible choice and you can buy a decent one for that price, possibly even A4. New Renault Megane is quite good and stylish also

Renault Megane (http://www.renault.co.uk/cars/model/newmeganehatch/product.aspx)

A3 (http://www.autospectator.com/cars/files/images/2009-Audi-A3_0.jpg)

If you wanna spend a little less, I thouroughly reccomend Kia Pro'ceed (http://www.otomotiw.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/kia_pro_cee_d_01.jpg). I bought one and I'm extremely satisfied.

[drone]

Stay away from Saab, they were owned by GM and the badge got sold to a small auto company, Spyker. Their future is uncertain, to say the least. You might want to look at Volvo instead, but Ford is currently attempting to sell them to some Chinese firm soon, who knows what will happen. :shrug: And Audis are just up-badged VWs, caveat emptor. ~D

As a full blooded American, I would suggest ... a BMW 3-series or a nicer Japanese car like Nissan/Infinity or Honda/Acura. What sort of vehicle are you looking for: a classy sedan, sporty coupe, or something else? What is your driving style, and what are your needs?

[Reenk Roink]

Hmm thanks for the info about Saab, also it's not classy in Europe?

I'm looking for a sleek Sedan (A4 style, A3 is too stationwagonish), a coupe is too flashy, I like an elegant feel, a nice smooth drive, decent milage. I am looking at an Accord for a slightly less expensive solution.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Hmm thanks for the info about Saab, also it's not classy in Europe?

As with everything, people have different opinions. I have owned Saabs for many years and always found them very comfortable, reliable and reasonably interesting to drive. The 9-3 convertible is a nice car.

Saab, despite the ownership of GM, has always had a decent badge image in Europe. They are built in Trollhaetten by the same Swedish engineers that were making them before GM. Elegant feel, smooth drive etc, is a Saab certainly. Classy? Entirely subjective.

[Subotan]

Secondly, Saab is not classy.
It totally is. Saabs are sophisticated.

[Megas Methuselah]

Wow, what are you, rich or something? Just take the freaking bus.

[Andres]

If you're looking for good value for your money, then I'd suggest Skoda. If you want something that looks classy, go for the Skoda Superb. Skoda is much cheaper than Audi and BMW, but the quality is almost as good and allthough it's a matter of taste, I find the Skoda Superb very good looking.

Pics:

https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/skodasuperb.jpg

https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/skodasuperb2.jpg

I'm driving a Skoda Fabia (yes, a cheap car; expensive cars are a complete waste of money) at the moment and I'm very happy with it.

[pevergreen]

Get a Holden.

http://www.holden.com.au/vehicles

[GeneralHankerchief]

I'm looking for a sleek Sedan (A4 style, A3 is too stationwagonish), a coupe is too flashy, I like an elegant feel, a nice smooth drive, decent milage. I am looking at an Accord for a slightly less expensive solution.

My mom drives an Accord, I've taken it out occasionally. Definitely recommended. Mileage is decent, although it's tough to notice for sure mainly because the fuel tank is so freaking big.

[Sarmatian]

If you're looking for good value for your money, then I'd suggest Skoda. If you want something that looks classy, go for the Skoda Superb. Skoda is much cheaper than Audi and BMW, but the quality is almost as good and allthough it's a matter of taste, I find the Skoda Superb very good looking.

Pics:

https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/skodasuperb.jpg

https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/skodasuperb2.jpg

I'm driving a Skoda Fabia (yes, a cheap car; expensive cars are a complete waste of money) at the moment and I'm very happy with it.

I don't like Skodas. They're cheap, yes, but not that reliable and they're definitely not classy or stylish. Better to go for VW if he wants that sort of a car.


Hmm thanks for the info about Saab, also it's not classy in Europe?

I'm looking for a sleek Sedan (A4 style, A3 is too stationwagonish), a coupe is too flashy, I like an elegant feel, a nice smooth drive, decent milage. I am looking at an Accord for a slightly less expensive solution.

I'm not sure about Audi prices in the US, but with 35,000$, good A4 might be out of your price range, if you want to buy a new car. In my opinion it might be better to get A3 with full package equipment than A4 that's missing even a sound system. If you can get one with decent stuff in it, go for it by all means.

If I were you, I'd look for a used car, let's say several years old BMW 3-series. Several years and 50,000-150,000 km is nothing for a BMW, with proper maintenance, you can get more than half a million km from it. You wouldn't even spend your entire budget, you could get a car with a strong engine and great equipment that is reliable and stylish. Of course, there are risks, but if you know a good mechanic who can check the car for you, there's not much to worry about. Also, since the car would be awesome and wouldn't look like it's straight out of the factory, you would be seen more as a "knower" than a "spender", but that's just me.

If you don't like used cars, go for Audi, no mistake there. If you don't like the new Megane, Peugeot 308 (http://blog.autoworld.com.my/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/peugeot_308_gt_thp_175_5_large.jpg) might be also worth considering. New Peugeot diesel engines are quite good, almost the quality of German ones. Get a 308 hdi and you're ready to go anywhere you want.

[Andres]

I don't like Skodas. They're cheap, yes, but not that reliable and they're definitely not classy or stylish. Better to go for VW if he wants that sort of a car.


Skoda is VW, but cheaper.

Skoda is no longer the rubbish it used to be in the seventies-eighties. Nowadays, it are very reliable cars. I'm driving one myself and unless something changes drastically, I'll probably keep buying Skoda for the rest of my life. I fell in love.

[Louis VI the Fat]

WHAT OF THE POLAR BEARS ARE NONE OF YOU THINKING OF THE POLAR BEARS



https://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3623/polarbearcub01.jpg

[Sigurd]

Forget about SAAB ... Swedish and crappy. Sorry, but that is the general notion here.
Audi = good looks but expect lot of garage time.
Volvo = great, but been there done that in several iterations. Boring.

If I would have chosen a car today, a brand new one, I would go for BMW. German craftsmanship at its best.
I don't know what they go for in the States, but you get original factory guaranty even if you chip it.
Chain trimming belt is a plus (never have to change it) and I know; my rubber trimming belt snapped last year and the engine was smashed to pieces.

BMW 335i Coupe (http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Vehicles/2011/3/335iCoupe/modelhighlights/default.aspx) would be my choice if I were young.
Today I would go for the brand new 5 series, but here in Norway the starting price for this baby would be around $84 000.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er9-DbSXJrE&NR=1

[Sigurd]

WHAT OF THE POLAR BEARS ARE NONE OF YOU THINKING OF THE POLAR BEARS



https://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3623/polarbearcub01.jpg

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/polar_bear_penguin.jpg

[Subotan]

WHAT OF THE POLAR BEARS ARE NONE OF YOU THINKING OF THE POLAR BEARS

https://img262.imageshack.us/img262/1451/goldencompass8821570.jpg

[Lemur]

I want to try one of those classy European cars like a Saab or Audi (the cheaper models of them - something $35K or less).
One of the nicest things about Audis, BMWs and Benzes is that they lose value very quickly as compared to the Japanese sedans. Even better, there are lots of idiots who lease them for three years and dump them back on the dealer. For a well-built car three years is nothing.

By way of example, my BMW 3 would have been about $40k brand new with all of its options. I picked it up when some dentist/lawyer dumped it at the end of its 3-year lease for closer to $20k, and it was in perfect condition. And nobody makes a nicer 4-door sedan than BMW.

I realize it isn't your money, so the value proposition isn't as compelling as it ought to be, but please, buy used. It makes so much more sense. And high-end dealers offer fresh warranties on their used cars. (My BMW, for example, got a new 3-year/100k warranty when I bought it.)

[InsaneApache]

If you want a fun ride with plenty of zip and good fuel economy you could do worse than a BMW mini. I got one for the missus a couple of years back and drove it more than she did. Fabulous. :cheerleader:

[Lemur]

Mmmm ... Mini Cooper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_%28BMW%29) ... if I didn't have two kids I would so have that car ...

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Lemurmania/MiniCooperJCWWorldChampionship50-1.jpg

... and it's supposed to be super-tall-guy-friendly. Lots of headroom up front. Wheee!

[Ronin]

I bought this at the end of last year.

Skoda Octavia Elegance.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/vincent_pt/skodaFront.jpg
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/vincent_pt/skodaBack.jpg

[drone]

Holdens, Skodas, and Peugeots are not generally available in the US. Let's see if I can rattle off the main badges sold here...

Honda/Acura
Toyota/Lexus/Scion
Nissan/Infiniti
Mazda
Suzuki (maybe only motorcycles now)
Subaru
Mitsubishi
Isuzu (maybe not anymore)
Kia/Hyundai
Jaguar/Land Rover
BMW/Mini
Mercedes
VW/Audi
Porsche
Volvo
Saab
Ford/Lincoln/Mercury
Chevrolet/Buick/Cadillac/GMC
Chrylser/Dodge/Jeep
Tesla

Plus most of the fancy stuff like Lambos, Bentleys, etc.

I'm a Honda guy, so I would be biased towards the nicer Accords and Acura sedans, but Sarmatian and Lemur have an excellent point about used BMWs. Look for one fresh off a 3 year lease, you can probably find a really high-end one for your price range.

[Sarmatian]

Skoda is VW, but cheaper.
... and worse. Just because VW owns Skoda doesn't mean they're the same. I'm not saying it's a bad car, but I don't like it and it is definitely not classy, which is what reenk wants.


Mmmm ... Mini Cooper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_%28BMW%29) ... if I didn't have two kids I would so have that car ...

... and it's supposed to be super-tall-guy-friendly. Lots of headroom up front. Wheee!

Oh, yeah. Was my first choice as well last year but I couln't find a good used one in Serbia so I endep up getting Kia Pro'ceed.

[Lemur]

Sarmatian and Lemur have an excellent point about used BMWs. Look for one fresh off a 3 year lease, you can probably find a really high-end one for your price range.
This is what ~$20k gets you if you play it smart:

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Lemurmania/325xi.jpg

(Yes, that's the actual Lemurmobile around the time I bought it. AWD, winter package, convenience package, all of the trimmings. Like I said earlier, it would have been $40k minimum had I bought new.)

And the 7 series depreciate even faster. Por ejemplo, a 2006 BMW 7-series sedan can be had for as low as $21,575 (http://www.automotive.com/2006/09/bmw/7-series/index.html). If that ain't a bargain I don't know what is. Of course, the 7 series gets terrible mileage and costs a pretty penny to maintain, so I would steer clear of it. But please be conscious of the luxo-end deals that are available.

-edit-

And if I may chime in: Agreed, avoid Saab like the plague.

High-end brands that actually mean something: Acura, Lexus, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Cadillac, Infiniti

High-end brands that are questionable: Saab, Hummer, Lincoln, Jaguar, Land Rover, all "Sport Activity Vehicles"

Bespoke cars that are silly expensive and make no sense unless you have money to burn: Porsche, Lambo, Aston Martin, etc.

[Ronin]

... and worse. Just because VW owns Skoda doesn't mean they're the same. I'm not saying it's a bad car, but I don't like it and it is definitely not classy, which is what reenk wants.


Ohhh RLY?

http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,682530,00.html


German auto giant Volkswagen is having trouble with its subsidiary Skoda. Not only are profits down at the Czech-based automaker, but its cars are now competing directly with VW models -- and in some cases are beating them in road tests.

On the topic....I heard that the Ford Focus European model is going to start being sold in the US....it is an amazing car and if a nice budget is available I´d go for one of the top versions.

[Subotan]

Um, Skodas aren't Yugos. They're good cars now.

[InsaneApache]

Bought a brand spanker BMW 316ti eight years ago. Great car, stuck to the road like it was glued on, even when cornering at speed. Loads of stuff on the steering wheel so you don't have to take your hands off to change the CD or turn on the air con. They do depreciate like a stone though. I think I 'lost' £3000 just driving it off the forcourt.

I liked the Mini better though. It's a really fun car to drive.

[drone]

High-end brands that are questionable: Saab, Hummer, Lincoln, Jaguar, Land Rover, all "Sport Activity Vehicles"
Saabs are nice, and had a good rep here in the States. But not knowing if Spyker will be able to maintain a US presence (and hence parts/maintanence) is enough to be wary. Hummer is toast. Jag and LR got sold to the Indian company Tata (insert favorite breast joke here) Motors 2 years ago, so who knows what's going to happen. Apart from being American, not sure why Lincoln is on the list, Ford's quality has improved recently. Not that I would ever buy one...


Bespoke cars that are silly expensive and make no sense unless you have money to burn: Porsche, Lambo, Aston Martin, etc.
The Boxsters are vaguely affordable. I've always had a soft spot in my heart for the 911, I just wish they had kept the whaletail. ~:mecry:

[Vuk]

Mmmm ... Mini Cooper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_%28BMW%29) ... if I didn't have two kids I would so have that car ...

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Lemurmania/MiniCooperJCWWorldChampionship50-1.jpg

... and it's supposed to be super-tall-guy-friendly. Lots of headroom up front. Wheee!

This is the only small car I would ever drive by choice. ~;)
And Reenk Roink, forget all the silly European crap ~;), buy Ford. Get a Crown Victoria while you still can! It is as roomy as you will ever get, stands up in a crash better than any of the cars you have been looking at, is one of the most reliable cars ever made (I know a guy who has over 350 on his and it still runs great. He has had to replace the Head gaskets twice and the coils once, but other than that, just routine maintenance), has good performance, and is as sexy as heck. ~;)

[Secura]

http://carsforgirls.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/mazda_mx5_limited.jpg

Om nom nom nom nom!

That car makes me wish I could drive. And had £2,500+ to spend. It's pretty sleek, quite stylish and quite affordable if you're not a student hovering on the poverty line. Of course, Jeremy Clarkson is probably going to pop up and slap my face while shouting something about women knowing nothing about cars.


EDIT: Just realised that the image is from a website called carsforgirls as well, hahaha.

[A Nerd]

Rear-wheel drive is terrible in the winter. I bought a honda...wish I had splurged and bought a used BMW though! :(

[Sarmatian]

Ohhh RLY?

http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,682530,00.html

Yes, in some instances (rare instances, I might add).

I don't know. Had a long talk with a guy owning a repair shop for Skodas, VW's and Audis and in his opinion there's a noticeably decrease in quality from Audi over VW to Skoda. Not saying it's a bad car, just that I wouldn't buy one, but Reenk Roink said he wants something classy and no matter how good it may be, Skoda definitely isn't classy.




On the topic....I heard that the Ford Focus European model is going to start being sold in the US....it is an amazing car and if a nice budget is available I´d go for one of the top versions.

Seconded, although I'd still go for KIA Ceed or Pro'ceed in that price range. The car is incredible. I was off Korean cars (used to drive a Daewoo, but this model totally blew me away - affordable, stylish, fast, comfortable, efficient with an unbelievable 7 years warranty).


Um, Skodas aren't Yugos. They're good cars now.

Are you kidding, Yugo's master of the cars (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvEKvcv5nW0). :laugh:

[Zradha Pahlavan]

Volvo cars actually aren't bad, usually you can find one for fairly cheap and they are fairly reliable. Probably not that classy though.

But personally, I think one of these would be a great car. Classy too.
https://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd103/Dancing_Fungus/lav25.jpg

[A Nerd]

That thing would be great for rush hour! Give me a shot of vodka and I'll grit my teeth and take the MG!

[Zradha Pahlavan]

And when you get to work, it's a conversation piece!
The only trouble is when you try to take a lady out on a date and you show up in the thing...she probably won't find the interior to be very comfortable.

[A Nerd]

Ah, it just takes some getting used to!

[Kagemusha]

Reenk buy a Mercedes. The engine lasts for ever and its both comfortable to drive and easy on the eye. In your prize range C 300 looks like your thing.With some bargaining you should get some nice gadgets to it with few grands you have over the listing prize:

http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/#/vehiclesMenu/exploreOverview/?vc=C&yr=2010&vmf=C300WZ

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Only important things in a car:

not one of those terribly slow cars
drivers seat is comfortable and roomy enough
good speakers
decent color (red is the best)
gas mileage
a radio button setup that you can operate without looking at it

A used Honda Accord would probably fit the bill, if you get new speakers installed :book:


Fast cars are appealing but you can't usually make use of it in the city. I admit it used to bug my that my old car couldn't go over 105 on the highway though.

^^opinion^^

[Louis VI the Fat]

I'm beginning to get worried here...

Do all of you people here have like cars and driver's licenses?

[PanzerJaeger]

This is what ~$20k gets you if you play it smart:

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Lemurmania/325xi.jpg



Awesome car, Lemur! The E46 is simply sublime. Which engine do you have?


On topic - I had an Audi S4 (B6) that I really enjoyed. Then I got a 3 and my (driving) life changed. Audi (VW) has that special, stoic German character that you can't get anywhere else, and they are very comfortable, but nobody makes a car like BMW. I got a little 135i last summer to trick out. I've got it chipped at 350 atm.

https://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/panzerjaeger/050.jpg

[Reenk Roink]

Thanks for all the ideas. :bow:

I definitely would take a good deal on a certified used car, as long as it's low mileage detailed and doesn't smell like children or old people or cigarettes. A used black BMW idea is pretty sweet too, and I could get an A6 used. :beam: Cruising in those playing some Tom Petty. :cool:

One question, say I want to sell a car that I myself bought used, is it held against that the car had two previous owners?

[Lemur]

Awesome car, Lemur! The E46 is simply sublime. Which engine do you have?
It is, indeed, a 2003 E46 model, the 325xi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_3_Series_%28E46%29#.22xi.22) with all sorts of extras. The AWD really makes Wisconsin blizzards fun. Not to mention it's a monster in rain and foul weather. It has the slowest engine you can get in the U.S.A., but that's fine by me. Better mileage, and the car is a rock.


One question, say I want to sell a car that I myself bought used, is it held against that the car had two previous owners?
No, what matters on resale is mileage, condition, warranty remaining (if any), etc. Number of owners is not something of particular relevance, unless it was a fleet car, which matters.

[Subotan]

BMW...Err, no.

[Lemur]

BMW...Err, no.
Seeing as you're in a thread with several BMW owners, would you care to expand on that thought?

[Banquo's Ghost]

Seeing as you're in a thread with several BMW owners, would you care to expand on that thought?

In most of the world and Europe, BMW drivers are seen as sober citizens with a good, sensible middle class approach to safety and practicality. It's pretty much what the brand has exemplified for years.

Sadly, in the UK and Ireland, the BMW driver is invariably brazen, dangerous, mindless and aggressive. Usually corporate drones or people with "executive" in their meaningless titles, they drive appallingly. If one is being tailgated on the UK motorway, chances are it'll be by a BMW. I've never seen a BMW driver pass me doing less than 90 mph (speed limit is 70). I have no idea why, and no doubt the phase will pass (this used to be the same chaps, but in Ford Mondeos) but it's my experience.

[gaelic cowboy]

@BG yeah thats my experience too in the wilds of the whest as we say BMW = Bloody Mad ******
Seen on Top Gear where they even highlighted the exact topic you bring up about speeding beamers.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

BMW's are stereotyped as yuppie cars in the US.

[Sarmatian]

Unfortunately, it used to be that every idiot with a bit more money to spend went for a BMW. Nowadays, those type of people have switched over to Audi and left BMW's are once again cars for "knowers". I believe Jeremy Clarkson said something to that effect.

[Lemur]

Interestingly, here in the wilds of Wisconsin, the crazy drivers are usually in Ford F150s. Regional differences, eh?

[Kagemusha]

Its the same consideration also here in Finland about BMW´s. Fortunately my sister owns one and i love to tease her about it. Im quite puzzled that no one else likes Mercedes Benz around these parts. As far as i know. There isnt pretty much anything to complain about their cars.

[PanzerJaeger]

Its the same consideration also here in Finland about BMW´s. Fortunately my sister owns one and i love to tease her about it. Im quite puzzled that no one else likes Mercedes Benz around these parts. As far as i know. There isnt pretty much anything to complain about their cars.

Besides the reliability? Dr. Z is turning some corners but it has been atrocious since the 90s.

[Kagemusha]

Besides the reliability? Dr. Z is turning some corners but it has been atrocious since the 90s.

Maybe you should check your facts.Last years most relaible cars:

Honda Civic BMW 3 Series Honda Jazz Honda Accord BMW 5 Series Audi A4 Mercedes Benz C-Class Mini Toyota Avensis Volkswagen Golf

Most reliable car manufacturer

BMW Honda Audi Toyota Volkswagen Mercedes-Benz Ford Mazda Nissan Skoda

The reliability problems of 90´s are old news.Source: http://www.gizmag.com/most-reliable-vehicles-in-uk/13298/

[Madoushi]

Congrats, Reenk.

Also, consider yourself lucky. Most people I know whose parents buy them cars give them $500. :grin:

I'm almost 30, and I still can't afford a car :cry:

[PanzerJaeger]

Maybe you should check your facts.Last years most relaible cars:

Honda Civic BMW 3 Series Honda Jazz Honda Accord BMW 5 Series Audi A4 Mercedes Benz C-Class Mini Toyota Avensis Volkswagen Golf

Most reliable car manufacturer

BMW Honda Audi Toyota Volkswagen Mercedes-Benz Ford Mazda Nissan Skoda

The reliability problems of 90´s are old news.Source: http://www.gizmag.com/most-reliable-vehicles-in-uk/13298/



I guess that depends on your definition of reliability and old news (http://www.benzinsider.com/2010/03/mercedes-benz-ranks-9th-in-jd-power-vehicle-reliability-survey/).


Mercedes-Benz, despite being one of the most well-known and highly respected European car makers, only managed to take 9th place. Still, it was a very big leap from its position last year which was 19th overall. Mercedes-Benz’ fellow German car marquee, Porsche, meanwhile took the survey’s top spot.

The problems (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17385761/) were certainly not limited to the 90s (http://autos.msn.com/advice/CRArt.aspx?contentid=4023544).

From 2006:


The difference between the best and worst models is striking. For example, the least-reliable vehicle in our survey, the redesigned for 2006 Mercedes-Benz M-Class SUV, is likely to have 10 times as many problems as the Toyota Highlander Hybrid, which debuted the same year. Here are some highlights from our survey:

Of the 45 least reliable models, 19 were European, 20 were from U.S. manufacturers, 5 were Japanese, and 1 was South Korean. General Motors had 12, Mercedes-Benz had 8, Ford and Nissan each had 5, Chrysler and Volkswagen each had 3, BMW and Jaguar each had 2, while Kia, Land Rover, Porsche, Saab, and Volvo each had 1.

And 2007:


Mercedes-Benz, in particular, has seen its reliability ranking decline sharply — this year, the German luxury brand placed last in the reliability list of 36 automobile brands, its reliability level 123 percent below the average for the whole industry, said Paul.

“We have seen lows in recent years for European carmakers, but this was a particularly bad year for Mercedes-Benz — it surprised a lot of people,” said Paul.

Consumer Reports placed the Mercedes-Benz CLS, M-Class and R-Class on its “Not Recommended” list because of declining reliability. A third of survey respondents who owned the 2001 Mercedes-Benz C-Class V6 owners “griped about serious electrical problems,” the magazine report said.



The problem was that market realities forced Mercedes to shift from building excellent cars and then pricing them accordingly to building cars to a specific price point. It would be as if suddenly BMW tasked the people managing Rolls Royce with building a $16,000 compact car. Chances are it would be awful compared to their more experienced Japanese competitor's models.

As I said, Dr. Z and the company are adapting, but reliability is only just now improving. Considering cars are on around 6 year product design cycles, I'd be very wary of Mercedes. The new C-class was a big step forward.

[Kagemusha]

I guess that depends on your definition of reliability and old news (http://www.benzinsider.com/2010/03/mercedes-benz-ranks-9th-in-jd-power-vehicle-reliability-survey/). The problems (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17385761/) were certainly not limited to the 90s (http://autos.msn.com/advice/CRArt.aspx?contentid=4023544).

From 2006:



And 2007:




The problem was that market realities forced Mercedes to shift from building excellent cars and then pricing them accordingly to building cars to a specific price point. It would be as if suddenly BMW tasked the people managing Rolls Royce with building a $16,000 compact car. Chances are it would be awful compared to their more experienced Japanese competitor's models.

As I said, Dr. Z and the company are adapting, but reliability is only just now improving. Considering cars are on around 5 year product cycles, I'd be very wary of Mercedes. The new C-class was a big step forward.

Well it was the new C class i recommended to Reenk.:cool4:

[PanzerJaeger]

Well it was the new C class i recommended to Reenk.:cool4:

And I was just answering your question as to why there might not be as much enthusiasm for Mercedes around here. :smug2:

[Kagemusha]

And I was just answering your question as to why there might not be as much enthusiasm for Mercedes around here. :smug2:

Well it is not as if Mercedes is the only car label with history. If reliability would be the only thing people look into on cars.We would all be driving toyotas, but do we?:smug:

[PanzerJaeger]

Well it is not as if Mercedes is the only car label with history. If reliability would be the only thing people look into on cars.We would all be driving toyotas, but do we?:smug:

Oh I totally agree. I think your average Toyonda is the most boring of appliances and I gladly pay a bit more in maintenance to drive something fun.

[Subotan]

And then there are Alphas.

[Vuk]

Well it is not as if Mercedes is the only car label with history. If reliability would be the only thing people look into on cars.We would all be driving toyotas, but do we?:smug:

lol, sorry to tell you, but in the most recent study, they say that Ford beat out Honda and Toyota for reliablility and customer satisfaction (and that was before the whole recall incident). It was one of the fancy German companies (Porsche I think) that got the number 1 spot, but Ford was right behind.
Goes to show you, you want a reliable car, buy Ford. ~;)

[InsaneApache]

What's all this about beemer drivers being arrogant and conceited! If you plebian car drivers in inferior vehicles only understood that you should shift out of the way, when an obviously superior being, in a superior vehicle hoves into view. Obvius reely. Honestly.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Well it is not as if Mercedes is the only car label with history. If reliability would be the only thing people look into on cars.We would all be driving toyotas, but do we?:smug:

Didn't Toyota just take an accelerated path to reliability problems? I think they're trying to put a brake on sales. :wink:

[A Nerd]

Well said!

[PanzerJaeger]

Whatever you end up getting, don't make it one of these. (http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/109278/worst-made-cars-on-the-road?mod=family-home)


Worst-Made Cars on the Road
by Hannah Elliott
Friday, April 9, 2010
provided by

If you want to drive something dependable and long-lasting, steer clear of these vehicles.

With a 22% improvement in sales last month, and despite the six-month, $4.3 billion loss it announced Wednesday, General Motors is likely to have its strongest spring and summer in years. Plus, the automaker had critically acclaimed new products at the recent New York Auto Show and the much-anticipated Chevrolet Volt is due out this fall.

Year-over-year sales of GM's Cadillac division alone are up almost 76%; sales in the Buick, Chevrolet and GMC divisions were each up more than 40% for March. The industry as a whole was up 24.3%.

Unfortunately just because GM's cars are selling well now doesn't mean they're the best bet for durability or value -- yet. It'll take awhile before GM's new direction shows up in tangible new products at the dealership.

Four of the seven vehicles on our list of the worst-made cars on the road come from GM brands. And all of the cars on the list -- including Chrysler's Dodge Nitro and Jeep Wrangler -- are made by Detroit's Big Three. Only one car on the list is made by Ford Motor (NYSE: F).

Cadillac Escalade
Segment: Luxury SUV
CR Predicted Reliability Score: Fair
CR Value Score: Rated among the worst in value
CR Safety Score: Rated among the worst in safety.
CR Overall Score: 61 out of 100
J.D. Power Dependability Score: 2 out of 5 Power Circles
MSRP: $62,495



Chevrolet Aveo
Segment: Compact Car
CR Predicted Reliability Score: Poor
CR Value Score: Not rated among the worst in overall value
CR Safety Score: Not rated among the worst in overall safety.
CR Overall Score: 36 out of 100
J.D. Power Dependability Score: 2 out of 5 Power Circles
MSRP: $11,965



Chevrolet Colorado
Segment: Pickup Truck
CR Predicted Reliability Score: Poor
CR Value Score: Not rated among the worst in value
CR Safety Score: Rated among the worst in overall safety.
CR Overall Score: 41 out of 100
J.D. Power Dependability Score: 2 out of 5 Power Circles
MSRP: $16,985



Dodge Nitro
Segment: SUV
CR Predicted Reliability Score: Poor
CR Value Score: Rated among the worst in overall value
CR Safety Score: Not rated among the worst in safety.
CR Overall Score: 33 out of 100
J.D. Power Dependability Score: 2 out of 5 Power Circles
MSRP: $22,335



Ford F-250
Segment: Pickup Truck
CR Predicted Reliability Score: Poor
CR Value Score: Rated among the worst in overall value
CR Safety Score: Rated among the worst in overall safety.
CR Overall Score: 37 out of 100
J.D. Power Dependability Score: 3 out of 5 Power Circles
MSRP: $28,020

[Strike For The South]

I have an F-150 4x4 and plan to keep it for a while, but one day when I have the shekels I'm going to splurge and get the best BMW money can buy

[Hosakawa Tito]

Toyota's unstoppable.

In my youth Chevrolet used to make quality vehicles, sadly that is no longer the case. And doesn't that just figure now that American's are shareholders in the company. We drive Chevys at work, vans & trucks. One in particular, a 2009 Chevy Silverado 4x4 pickup I use to check on outside work crews, seems to end up in the shop once a month. It's already had the transmission, gas tank & filler tube, computer and various sensors replaced. Some colleagues at work who personally own them have had similar troubles. We should have let them go bankrupt...

[drone]

In my youth Chevrolet used to make quality vehicles, sadly that is no longer the case. And doesn't that just figure now that American's are shareholders in the company. We drive Chevys at work, vans & trucks. One in particular, a 2009 Chevy Silverado 4x4 pickup I use to check on outside work crews, seems to end up in the shop once a month. It's already had the transmission, gas tank & filler tube, computer and various sensors replaced. Some colleagues at work who personally own them have had similar troubles. We should have let them go bankrupt...
I would avoid any GM product built 2007 and later. The 2007 strike, plus the rumors and uncertainty leading up to the 2009 bankruptcy could not have been good for the quality of the vehicles coming off the lines or the parts coming from suppliers. Not worth the risk.

[Vuk]

I would avoid any GM product built 2007 and later. The 2007 strike, plus the rumors and uncertainty leading up to the 2009 bankruptcy could not have been good for the quality of the vehicles coming off the lines or the parts coming from suppliers. Not worth the risk.
GM vehicles have always stunk (but especially 80s onward). Best American made cars are Ford and Pontiac, and best American made trucks are Ford and Dodge. I would avoid anything GM.

[Gregoshi]

I have an F-150 4x4...
So does my wife. :laugh4:

[drone]

GM vehicles have always stunk (but especially 80s onward). Best American made cars are Ford and Pontiac, and best American made trucks are Ford and Dodge. I would avoid anything GM.

Pontiac is(was) GM.

I would avoid Chrysler/Dodge as well, they went through the Daimler pillaging and bankruptcy in about the same time frame. Can't imagine the morale was very high on the lines.

[Vuk]

Pontiac is(was) GM.

I would avoid Chrysler/Dodge as well, they went through the Daimler pillaging and bankruptcy in about the same time frame. Can't imagine the morale was very high on the lines.

That is why I singled it out as the exception. And Pontiac has been shut down now, so as I said, avoid anything GM. ~;)
And Chrysler actually makes some really good vehicles. When Ford was having trouble I was thinking that if Ford ever went out, I would move my business to Dodge. They make a mean truck and a decent car. While they are not as good as Ford, they are miles ahead of GM.

[PanzerJaeger]

Yikes!

Stay away from Chrysler products for your own good!*



*Except maybe the Wrangler. It is so simple and based on such old technology, it is hard to mess up. I have heard build quality has gone down in recent years, though.

[Myrddraal]

There's some charm to the old mini that I can't quite put my finger on, and I can't quite see in the new mini. It's purely illogical I know, but I would love an old mini. Currently I drive an ancient VW polo, which, although it's not in the best condition ever, has needed minimal maintainance to keep it going over the years.

PS, you're looking great in that photo Lemur.