The Sweboz

[Unferth of Gergovia]

Hey everybody! My computer got fried and but Im back in the game now and I have been playing as the Sweboz...I never get the reforms though? I may have asked this in an older post but does anyone know how to change the requirements for the reforms including the Romani. I know people freak sometimes when someone talks about changing stuff like that but I just dont have the time to wait 3 weeks to get the reforms...and I could use some German Naked Fanatics and some heavy Cavalry. Any help would be appreciated :furious3:

[Duguntz]

Germ,an naked fanatics are available from the start, just build a level 3 MIC (native) in gawjam-Silengoz, for the other, you gotta have a bunch of huge market and wait until 190 at least... I don't know how to change the reform requirements... good luck

[Unferth of Gergovia]

Thank you so much! I started a new campaign just to see how having those soldiers will impact my gameplay. They are an awesome unit but I wish they had more men attached to it. Same with all the other unique units...they are super expensive and usually have only half the men which sometimes I will choose two groups of decent soldiers over one group of elites with the same upkeep cost. Now I have to play till 190 BC again hahaha once again thank you

[Macilrille]

There is another way you can get them from the start.

1) Get a good economy going (yes can be done, surprisingly easy avtually if you stay away from having huge standing armies).
2) Wait for Rebels to pop up
3) Send spy and see what they consist off- often there will be heavy inf and you are in luck.
4) Send Diplomat with glib tongue and big purse.

That gave me the various heavy infantry units from 20 years or so into my campaign, Kludda Lugiae as well as I bribed a fullstack of good units over where they are. Then assassinated one of the ÛberFMs leading an ûberstack in Central Europe and bribed that as well (then I had no more money and I had to disband some, but I also had a really hardcore army and I like playing with hardcore units).

[athanaric]

That gave me the various heavy infantry units from 20 years or so into my campaign, Kludda Lugiae as well as I bribed a fullstack of good units over where they are. Then assassinated one of the ÛberFMs leading an ûberstack in Central Europe and bribed that as well (then I had no more money and I had to disband some, but I also had a really hardcore army and I like playing with hardcore units).
I recently got hold of Kallatis - Makedonia took it from the Getai and attacked me in Basternolandam. Bad idea. Kallatis came with a level 5 regional barracks, obligingly built for me by the Getai. This means that I now legally have Skythian Riders, Thracian Elite Infantry and other assorted kickass units at my disposal to accompany my Lugian Swordsmen and Suebi units.

[Unferth of Gergovia]

The German Fanatic Spearman have changed my gameplay already and thank you for your help. One other thing...the Jugunthiz are really underated...how many spears do they throw? Is it three or four? Im hoping to get the Heavy Cavalry soon but am worried about being able to afford it...I am however totally sick of waiting for the Stupid Romani Reforms...I dont have much time to play and I would like to get some gameplay time with some Marian or Augustan units...I am lucky to get an hour a day and its kind of depressing haha...but I get to save for my new computer for EB II!!!!!!

[Duguntz]

I'm completly agree! The jugintiz are underated. i use them very much, they've high moral and can even hold their own against medium troops. as for the naked spearmen, they're the best! (plus they look awsome!) i'm glad i could be some help, and very glad to find another sweboz addicted here! welcome in ze club!

[WinsingtonIII]

I'm completly agree! The jugintiz are underated. i use them very much, they've high moral and can even hold their own against medium troops.

I wouldn't call 9 morale particularly high (only 1 more than Akontistai), but it's decent for a low-tier skirmisher unit. They do hold surprisingly well in melee though, and against other barbarians javelin volleys are devastating, so they are certainly very useful to keep around. The truly amazingly good low-tier skirmishers in EB are Komatai and Bnei Shevet 'Arabim (Arabian Light Infantry), both of which have 11 morale.

[athanaric]

One other thing...the Jugunthiz are really underated...how many spears do they throw? Is it three or four?
Six.

The Woithiz Watha (the Germanic Naked Fanatics) have four javelins, by the way. A little bit unexpected, but it makes them even better as flankers. The cheaper (and weaker, but more practical) Celtic variant has three javelins.



The truly amazingly good low-tier skirmishers in EB are Komatai and Bnei Shevet 'Arabim (Arabian Light Infantry), both of which have 11 morale.
Yes, but the Komatai don't have spears. They should be very good against enemy skirmishers, however (what with sword and decent shield - and some rudimentay armour). The Jugundiz and Komatai both have better shields (3) than the Arabians or most other skirmishers.

[WinsingtonIII]

Yes, but the Komatai don't have spears. They should be very good against enemy skirmishers, however (what with sword and decent shield - and some rudimentay armour). The Jugundiz and Komatai both have better shields (3) than the Arabians or most other skirmishers.

Both valid points, but I think it's undeniable that both are better than Jungundiz. The only caveat being that Komatai aren't as good against cavalry because they don't carry spears. Jungundiz are certainly a surprisingly good unit, but I would not rank them as worthy of being deemed one of the best skirmishers in EB (like Komatai or Arabians), that's all I'm saying.

[athanaric]

That certainly seems reasonable, moreso if availability for other factions is considered (everyone can recruit the Arab guys at tier 1).
In fact, the Jugundiz are almost identical to Immanae (who are sort of generic Barbarian skirmishers), with the only difference being a better shield and IIRC a somewhat less clumsy spacing. The Balroae might fit into this category as well, having better morale but a small shield - and they are only available on the dark side of the moon.

In fact, we could probably group the "hidden badass" skirmishers into a top group - Komatai, Bedouin skirmishers, and Baktrian Hillmen - and a second, slightly weaker group, which includes the Jugundiz. Balroae could be with either, dependig on your taste.

[WinsingtonIII]

I certainly agree with that grouping. Maure Infantry should also probably go in the top category, with those .225 lethality swords they have. I forgot about Balroe; stat wise they are top-tier (best morale out of the bunch actually), but that AOR sadly makes them almost useless from a campaign perspective. Good call on the Bakrians too, sometimes I forget that they are really skirmishers and actually have 6 javelins and good range; I keep thinking of them as light axemen primarily.

But anyways, I'm getting off-topic here.

On a more Sweboz related note, I think that in general they start the game with potentially the greatest access to units that have a great "bang-for-your-buck." Dugundiz, Sloxonez, and Jugundiz are all pretty cheap considering what they are capable of when used correctly. But an army composed of them is going to run into a lot of trouble with missiles....

[satalexton]

Hide them in woods and tall grass, they are deadly in an ambushcade....

[Cute Wolf]

don't forget to field your own Reidonez, because light horsemen is essential as arrow fodder (who can distract the arrows to anywhere else), and give time for your spearmen and clubmen (sloxonez in particular are bane to those Sauro bodyguards in melee)... to charge them on foot....

I've always doing that when I decide to smash up sauro to pulp with Sweboz (but when reaching about Bosophoran area, I started to train my own Steppe Riders)

[satalexton]

:clown: I thought you only field your wolf-catanks, Lykos. :clown:

[Cute Wolf]

You sure forgot that I was a Sweboz too....
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=3369&pictureid=36318

[Unferth of Gergovia]

Now whats the deal with the guy defending Eburonum...hes a bad ass with a badass army! I am just waiting to 190 bc now which is a friggin pain and boring but necessary to get my heavy german cavalry...but I sent my units to fight that guy and autocalc and my units experience just sky rockets! Why is there no option in the preferences program to turn on or off the reforms...this waiting thing sucks for people without alot of time and I cant cahnge the script cause it wont let me...maybe thats an Idea for EB II?

[Macilrille]

If you know what you are doing, you can change the script to get reforms before. I do not, but some do and you should be able to do a search and find roughly how. It can definately be done.
However... why? I have taken most of Europe with Sweboz, from the Pyrenees and Sicily to Nordkap, from Gawjam-Bastarnoz and Gintatas-Ostan to Tearaght Island, with no reforms until long after the required time despite all builds being right. Only reformed units I had until the last 20- 25 years were those I bribed from Rebels.

You already have badass units (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BadassArmy) with high morale (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ProudWarriorRaceGuy). You can pwn anyone.

[Duguntz]

You already have badass units (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BadassArmy) with high morale (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ProudWarriorRaceGuy). You can pwn anyone.


Cannot say better! Look, I beated the crap out of multiple elite roman stack whilt outnumbered. Another understimated unit are the Juguntiz Hatiska (orthograph?)... Unferth of Gergovia, AP weapons are your best friends! no matter if your ennemy is impressive with his elite unit. I mean, why wait the reform... an experienced Slagonez unit beats a Catank unit.. It's only a matter of mixing your troops rightly! (and to read the strategy guide of Macirille to give you ideas on ''how to beat the crap out of barbaroi'')

[WinsingtonIII]

Frankly, I'm not sure why you're in such a hurry to get the Germanic Heavy Cavalry. They're certainly good, but Germanic Light Cavalry, Celto-Germanic Cavalry, and Gallic Light Cavalry easily get the job done. Roman cavalry can't compete and the Gallic cavalry is pretty much on the same level with the exception of the bodyguard version of Brihentin. The recruitable Brihentin have worse stats and can be taken down by Celto-Germanic Cav. Especially if you have Temples to Deiwoz and Fields of Games in your troop producing cities so they come out with three or four experience chevrons right off the bat.

[Macilrille]

That indeed is the basis for Sweboz pwning the world, so basic that I thought I need not say it :embarassed: Forget about economic temples, use Deiwoz to give you experience and in distant settlements, Wothan to give Law. Drop the rest, they are largely useless.

[Duguntz]

The best, (following the basic sweboz recruitment strategy) is to build a level 3 Deiwoz temple plus a blacksmith... With that, even an army of light troops can compete with ANYTHING the world can field, appart of horse archer. All units start right off the bat with upgraded weapons and 3 chevrons... your medium troops can even beat the elites of Romans... Celto-germanic cav. do wonder on the battlefield and even your light Reidonez are very good for light cav... dude, appart if you're really onto big heavy armour, don't wait the reform, and start to kick some arses

[WinsingtonIII]

That indeed is the basis for Sweboz pwning the world, so basic that I thought I need not say it :embarassed: Forget about economic temples, use Deiwoz to give you experience and in distant settlements, Wothan to give Law. Drop the rest, they are largely useless.

Well, I think Frouja can be useful in the early game to boost population growth, considering how small most of your towns start out. But Soap Makers and Healer's Huts are both very effective for that as well.

[athanaric]

Well, I think Frouja can be useful in the early game to boost population growth, considering how small most of your towns start out. But Soap Makers and Healer's Huts are both very effective for that as well.
The temple of Frouwjo is the most cost-efficient temple in EB. For just 2400 mnai (cost of both tiers combined), you get +20 happiness and +1% population growth. Though later on, Deiwoz and Wathonoz become more important for the player - as was the case in real life, where Wodan eventually became the most important one, at the expense of older deities (especially female ones). Seems to be something of a general tendency that can culminate in monotheism.

[Macilrille]

The only cases where I use Frowjon instead is those cities I have plundered a couple of times and/or that the stupid AI has emptied of population by drafting them all as cheap levies to throw against me, as soon as it reaches pop 6000 I change to the more useful ones. My home towns where I recruit are all Deiwoz/Tyr and my third/fourth building in these are either soap maker or healer, fifth/sixth usually also, so I have both fairly early and can churn out units with experience, experience matters a lot in EB.

[WinsingtonIII]

experience matters a lot in EB.

It certainly does; I'm actually kind of looking forward to M2TW's toned down experience. The amount of a bonus experience gives in RTW is a bit ridiculous to be honest.

[Drewski]

Here's how silly the Sweboz can be:- When I attacked one of the North Alpine states that the Romans had recently conquered, it was only garrisoned by a unit of Pedites Extra and a Camillan Principes. Both decided not to challenge the walls, and stayed in the town square. I took the General and a few units in their direction. I held the rest back, and charged (alt click to lessen missile casualties) with one unit of Chatti Clubmen. Now the Chatti Clubmen cost a measely 625 mnai, one of the very cheapest units in all the game. But they were blacksmith trained and even though rookies, already had a silver chevron. I wanted to see how many of the PE and Cam Princips they could take down (with the general standing close behind for encouragment)..the result?

The whole lot. On their own. They were whittled down to only 18 survivors (out of 200 men/huge unit size), but killed 324 of Rome's best and better troops. It isn't that surprising though, as when you add in the chevrons, they have an attack edge over PE, better lethality and roughly equal in defence. They also tire much more slowly. Also, Rome had the height advantage (raised square mound).......

The only thing that puts me off playing the Sweboz further, is the complete and utter one dimensionality. Their build tree is pathetic, the control over FM development is non existant (unless you count constantly fighting battles), and sorry, I just get bored of them by around 225BC every single time (with express apologies to Duguntz and other addicts);)

But for a quick thrash around the forest, they're fun once in a while, for all that :)

[Duguntz]

That's what's happnes when real men fight against pesty barbaroi XD you showed them! without retraining, i could conquer half of italy, (2 elite destroyed stack plus 3 cities) with only a full stack of light troops... 3 chevrons on everybody plus blacksmith upgrade... plus a 10 stars general... still, rome is a walk in the park for Sweboz and their clubmen...

[satalexton]

Just their standard Dugu-spearmen, trained by Duguntz himself, are worthy fighters for their upkeep. They've spearheaded the assault on Barbaropolis on my Aedui save, and 2 units (with 2 chevs) have killed 4 FMs unsupported. Those FMs are the last of the Barbaroi, and they're all 3-gold chevs...