Obama Checks "Black" On His Census Form

[Strike For The South]

Race war surley to ensue

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/28/AR2010042804156.html?wpisrc=nl_opinions

If there ever was a more non issue.

Obama has been slated by a black man his whole life, the mother from Kansas makes a nice story but we all know how (blacks and whites) saw him as. Let's not kid ourselves.

[Gregoshi]

Wow. Obama can't even fill out a census form correctly.

Everyone's an armchair census-form-filler-outer. :rolleyes:

[al Roumi]

Some have said that by putting himself in one box instead of two, Obama is simply exhibiting pride in being African American. I can appreciate that. But there is an important consequence when our president does not acknowledge half of his heritage, or, more basically, the mother and grandparents who raised him, or even his commonality with his sister, who is also biracial, though with a different mix. If the most powerful person in this country says that because society thinks he looks black, he is black, it sends a message that biracial children have to identify with the side they most resemble. That might be a problem for my daughters, who consider themselves Jewish, Chinese and, because it's the Chang family's home state, Hawaiian, yet are most often mistaken for Latinas. They usually shrug off that misperception, and I am glad. After all, if we let society determine what we are, we will never change society.

What, so she says his choice was legitimate but is upset that he doesn't feel as divided as she does?

If what he did was choose what he feels, how can she be clear that he isn't auto-defining his "race"? To answer that, she'd have to examine why her daughters feel the way they do about their "race(s)".

Frankly, it's pointelss meandering articles like this that will obviate race as a concern from society.

The writer is an editor of The Post's Sunday Magazine.

Oh ok then, not used to writing about more than curtains or celebs...

[Vladimir]

I am 1/16th Spanish. I should start calling myself Hispanic.

[Lemur]

I am 1/16th Spanish. I should start calling myself Hispanic.
Were people of Spanish descent ever subject to the one-drop rule (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule)? No?

I didn't think so. So maybe you shouldn't express such dangerous levels of smug when making fun of what you (mistakenly) think is another person's hypocrisy.

[Beskar]

The use of absolutes reminds me of what a racist poster once said. However, I wasn't sure if it was on this forum, or another forum, but I doubt it was this forum, because they probably would have recieved a perma-ban for it.

They used an analogy about milk and chocolate, and once they were mixed, it is basically impossible to remove the chocolate from the milk, and thus the milk is always chocolately.

What I always wondered, why do they even bother asking on a census form about it?


Edit: Looks like Lemur made reference to a one-drop rule, which probably goes some way in expanding about that posters views.

[Vladimir]

Were people of Spanish descent ever subject to the one-drop rule (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule)? No?

I didn't think so. So maybe you shouldn't express such dangerous levels of smug when making fun of what you (mistakenly) think is another person's hypocrisy.

Stop relying on emotion to make your judgments.

Read up on your Latin American history. The Spanish structured their entire American empire on a "one drop rule." Even people of Spanish decent born in the western hemisphere were considered lower class than "peninsular" Spaniards.

[Lemur]

The Spanish structured their entire American empire on a "one drop rule." Even people of Spanish decent born in the western hemisphere were considered lower class than "peninsular" Spaniards.
And if we were discussing your status in Spain, that would be entirely relevant. However, the thread is about the President's ethnic status on the U.S. census, which inspired your smug aside about how being 1/16th Spanish means you should call yourself Hispanic. Also, the article I linked to (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule) disagrees with your glib summation of the entire history of South America:


The one-drop rule is nearly unique to the United States and relates both to the Southern oppressive culture and other discrimination after general emancipation of slaves, as well as the Black Power Movement of the 20th century. People in most other countries tend to treat race less rigidly, both in their self-identification and how they regard others. Just as a person with physically recognizable sub-Saharan ancestry can claim to be black in the United States, someone with recognizable Caucasian ancestry may be considered white in Brazil.

In the caste system of colonial Spanish America, a racial and class hierarchy developed in the society. Many soldiers and explorers took indigenous women as wives, but in time, upper class men were able to bring Spanish women to the colonies. Combined with the Iberian purity of blood rules, the hierarchy classified those with pure Spanish blood and wealth at the top. For the rest, the status of a mixed-race person would be determined by the proportion of "white blood"; an elaborate system classified the combinations of black, Amerindian and white by different names. A proportion of Spanish (white) ancestry was enough to position a person above (or later, African.) Racial caste not only depended on ancestry or skin color, but also could be raised or lowered by the person's economical fortune. After the abolition of slavery and Latin American independence, the caste divisions blurred into wider groups.

[KukriKhan]

Mr. O. grew up (partly) in Hawai'i. There, to qualify for some nativist assistance programs, you have to document 25-50% Hawai-ian-ness. To qualify for a net-fishing license (everybody else has to use a pole and line) you must show 1/16th Hawai'ian-ness. So, there is some precedent to the 1/16th "rule" (I think I've read similar requirements for Navajo, Apache and other SW US natives for qualifying for programs).

Anyway, Obama picking "Black" reflects his personal identification since he left the islands, I guess, even though none of his ancestors were ever slaves. According to family legend I'd be 1/32nd Chippewa (a great grandma married to a French-Canadian ancestor), but I didn't check "Native American" on the census - not cuz I'm ashamed of great-grannie (to the contrary) but I know I don't much look Chippewa, more Irish-French. I really wanted to scrawl "American!!" in black crayon on the form, but figgered I'd get a vist from a Fed if I did. Then I'd hafta yell at him, kick him off the property, then the black choppers would come, and...

[PanzerJaeger]

@ Lemur - What, exactly, does the one-drop rule have to do with anything? Are you suggesting Obama's decision to only identify as black has anything to do with it?

Anyway, "Barry" was white in High School when it suited him, became black to get into college, stayed black to get ahead in Chicago politics, varied between black and white on the campaign trail depending on his audience, and now he's just black again because it fits into his civil rights hero narrative and he needs blacks to come out strong in 2010. Look for white Barry (without Harry Reid's famed "negro accent") to make another appearance around 2012. :nice:

[LittleGrizzly]

Anyway, "Barry" was white in High School when it suited him, became black to get into college, stayed black to get ahead in Chicago politics, varied between black and white on the campaign trail depending on his audience, and now he's just black again because it fits into his civil rights hero narrative and he needs blacks to come out strong in 2010. Look for white Barry (without Harry Reid's famed "negro accent") to make another appearance around 2012

Sounds somewhat like I treat my nationality, half english half welsh, big football fan. At a young age (about 8 in '94) I realised wales were pretty poor in international football (never made it to a tournement in my lifetime) so i switched my alliegance over to england (ironically they also didn't qualify for this tournement) for the sake of watching international football* Now if I ever stood for election in Wales I would probably say im welsh if asked or I thought it would help, though for any forms I fill in I always put my nationality as English.... except for my university application forms as I would have been charged more for not being Welsh.

So im pretty much as happy to swop and change my nationality as Obama, and seemingly as happy to deny my welsh background as he is his white background*. It indicates to me that he cares as much about race as I do about nationality (not at all)

He like me is just happy to use it for its advantages but then there are disadvantages, for one you may be somewhat unaccepted by both groups (I was always considered Welsh in England and English in Wales) the people who have more extreme thinking about race may wish to exclude this mixed person from being part of thier race. So as far as im concerned you deserve the little advantages you get being partially in 2 groups as you usually lose out along the way as well...

*Im not ashamed of my welsh background and I doubt Obama's ashamed of his white background...

One more little note I think Obama's black side comes from his father who left him, my English side came from my father who left me, I do think this somewhat pushed me more towards english as some symptom of missing him....

I can't seem to help but talk about myself, it seems logical though that Obama possibly uses it in a similar way (and I think thats fair enough)

Contains what Sasaki said below only in about 300 words instead

[Sasaki Kojiro]

@ Lemur - What, exactly, does the one-drop rule have to do with anything? Are you suggesting Obama's decision to only identify as black has anything to do with it?

Anyway, "Barry" was white in High School when it suited him, became black to get into college, stayed black to get ahead in Chicago politics, varied between black and white on the campaign trail depending on his audience, and now he's just black again because it fits into his civil rights hero narrative and he needs blacks to come out strong in 2010. Look for white Barry (without Harry Reid's famed "negro accent") to make another appearance around 2012. :nice:

This just sounds like he doesn't set much stock in race, and doesn't have race as a big part of his identity.

[Reenk Roink]

...and the only people who are gonna make an issue about it are white republicans... :juggle2:

[PanzerJaeger]

This just sounds like he doesn't set much stock in race, and doesn't have race as a big part of his identity.

...and that he is a very intelligent man that has used what is traditionally a disadvantage to his advantage.




I can't seem to help but talk about myself

Neither can Barry. :laugh4:

[Beskar]

I wonder if I can call PanzerJaegar, PJ or nicknamed as Pajamas.

[LittleGrizzly]

Im sure there have been times when being half black or being half white have disadvantaged him, why shouldn't he get the perks of it as well ?

[PanzerJaeger]

...and the only people who are gonna make an issue about it are white republicans... :juggle2:

I don't believe Mrs. Chang is particularly partisan or even a Republican, and it's hard to believe she cares very much about race considering she married a different one than her own. In any event, her article had nothing to do with politics.


I wonder if I can call PanzerJaegar, PJ or nicknamed as Pajamas.

:nice:


Im sure there have been times when being half black or being half white have disadvantaged him, why shouldn't he get the perks of it as well ?

I agree. The only thing that bothers me is when he plays the race card (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0410/Obama_seeks_to_reconnectyoung_people_AfricanAmerins_Latinos_and_women_for_2010.html?showall) for political gain.

[CountArach]

Although I knew Obama self-identifies as African American
And that is where I stopped caring. Self-identity is what truly counts, within reason obviously, in my mind.

[Pannonian]

According to family legend I'd be 1/32nd Chippewa (a great grandma married to a French-Canadian ancestor), but I didn't check "Native American" on the census - not cuz I'm ashamed of great-grannie (to the contrary) but I know I don't much look Chippewa, more Irish-French. I really wanted to scrawl "American!!" in black crayon on the form, but figgered I'd get a vist from a Fed if I did. Then I'd hafta yell at him, kick him off the property, then the black choppers would come, and...

Are they entirely black, or just 1/8 black?

[Husar]

He looks pretty black to me, you people need glasses.

[Centurion1]

no he is 50% husar. and of the unique African-American nationality. Meaning- lighter than actual africans, living in afirca. at least thats been my experience.

It does not matter to me. i myself choose white, yes even on my college applications even though im part chinese. i just dont give a **** and that is imho the only way people are ever going to get beyond racism. JUST STOP TALKING ABOUT IT DARNIT! Blacks are just as guilty as whites in this as are latinos, asians, martians, and mole people.

oh and lemur if you are spanish at all you are considered hispanic by the federal government. My buddy is part spanish and it bothers me to no end when he saws part hispanic because its part of GD europe for cripes sake. but yes spanish people are hispanic as well according to fed.

[AlexanderSextus]

no he is 50% husar. and of the unique African-American nationality. Meaning- lighter than actual africans, living in afirca. at least thats been my experience.

It does not matter to me. i myself choose white, yes even on my college applications even though im part chinese. i just dont give a **** and that is imho the only way people are ever going to get beyond racism. JUST STOP TALKING ABOUT IT DARNIT! Blacks are just as guilty as whites in this as are latinos, asians, martians, and mole people.

oh and lemur if you are spanish at all you are considered hispanic by the federal government. My buddy is part spanish and it bothers me to no end when he saws part hispanic because its part of GD europe for cripes sake. but yes spanish people are hispanic as well according to fed.

Not talking about racism will not make it go away.

[Centurion1]

yeah but using it as a crutch only creates more resentment and anger.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Race war surley to ensue

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/28/AR2010042804156.html?wpisrc=nl_opinions

If there ever was a more non issue.

Obama has been slated by a black man his whole life, the mother from Kansas makes a nice story but we all know how (blacks and whites) saw him as. Let's not kid ourselves.Hmm...I kinda tend to agree with that article. It is a pity for people of mixed-race if Obama should not present himself as such.

Blacks do have an identity, whatever else may be written about this identity. Mixed-race is more complicated. There are all sorts of questions of belonging attached to it. Even if a mixed-race person herself does not want to chose a single heritage, there are lots of social pressures to chose one or the other. Often depending on whom they are dealing with.
In the case of Obama, one drop of blood seems to force him into chosing Black.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Hmm...I kinda tend to agree with that article. It is a pity for people of mixed-race if Obama should not present himself as such.

Blacks do have an identity, whatever else may be written about this identity. Mixed-race is more complicated. There are all sorts of questions of belonging attached to it. Even if a mixed-race person herself does not want to chose a single heritage, there are lots of social pressures to chose one or the other. Often depending on whom they are dealing with.
In the case of Obama, one drop of blood seems to force him into chosing Black.

Oh come on Louis. You're not a yank, but you are a darned sight more knowledgeable about US politics than that. His African heritage is, at best, ONE of the reasons he checked "black" on his form. I'd venture to guess that a 95% support rating from other Americans who also check "black" on their census boxes might have just a tad to do with it as well.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Oh come on Louis. You're not a yank, but you are a darned sight more knowledgeable about US politics than that. His African heritage is, at best, ONE of the reasons he checked "black" on his form. I'd venture to guess that a 95% support rating from other Americans who also check "black" on their census boxes might have just a tad to do with it as well.Aye. That's why I resent Obama picking 'Black'. 'One drop of blood' is not only thought by whites. Blacks too get nervous about mixed-race, feel betrayed when 'one of their own' crosses over. They want their Black president, and their president to be Black. Not that I blame 'em after 400 years. This what forced Obama to pick Black, I think we agree.

There are mixed-race people too. I assume they are, like here, America's fastest growing 'ethnicity'. In search of an identity, or identities. Obama picking a single ethnicity instead of mixed-race must be a dissapointment to them.

[drone]

Wasn't he accused of being "not black enough" during the campaign? Since he's halfsies, and the half is not African-American but African? Politically, this is no surprise. :shrug:

[Lemur]

Wasn't he accused of being "not black enough" during the campaign?
Don't start. First he was not black enough to win black support, then he was too black 'cause of his crazy preacher, then he was Kenyan, then he was Indonesian, then he was one of a hundred variations on "the other," including a hard-core subset of folks who wanted the mixed-race boy to show his papers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories).

Every racial epithet, threat, benefit and hurt has been explored with our current President. If there's anyone who isn't exhausted by it, they either have endless patience for the topic of race or they slept through '08.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Every racial epithet, threat, benefit and hurt has been explored with our current President. If there's anyone who isn't exhausted by it, they either have endless patience for the topic of race or they slept through '08.Race is the obsession of the Americas, and will remain so for some time to come. One Muslim president is not going to change that.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

What does "mixed race" mean? Aren't you doing something similar to the "one-drop" rule here, except that you're saying that one-drop makes him mixed race, and not black?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Don't start. First he was not black enough to win black support, then he was too black 'cause of his crazy preacher, then he was Kenyan, then he was Indonesian, then he was one of a hundred variations on "the other," including a hard-core subset of folks who wanted the mixed-race boy to show his papers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories).

Every racial epithet, threat, benefit and hurt has been explored with our current President. If there's anyone who isn't exhausted by it, they either have endless patience for the topic of race or they slept through '08.

All too true. It is also rather annoying to those of us who have zero concern for his ethnic/racial/melanin/food preference background and far more concern with his outlook, attitude, and policies. I take a bash at the man's policies and it is far too easy for someone to label me "racist" rather than try to counter my point. Quite galling at times.

Ah well, you are correct that race is something of an "idee fixe" for the Americas still. King's Dream will not be fulfilled in my lifetime, sad to say.

As to growth rates, if I recall correctly, the number one in the USA is hispanic, mixed parentage second and East Asiatic third -- though it has been a while since a read some demographics on that.