help needed with helms deep map

[trader/warrior]

i have created a helms deep map. but the computer only tries to walk around it, but there i have cliffs so they cant come up there. the they jus stand outside the wall not attacking. what should i do?

[PanthaPower]

You could try to make the map in a way so that they can only do a frontal approach.

Like this:

x Clif/Rock
|- Mapborders
= Castle walls

-------------------------------------------------
|xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx|
|xxxxxxxxxx ===== xxxxxxxxxxxx|
|xxxxxxxxxx = = xxxxxxxxxxxxxx|
|xxxxxxxxxx==========xxxxxxxxxxx|
|xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxx|
|xxxxxxxxxx==========xxxxxxxxxxx|
|xxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx|
|xx xxxxxx|
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
----------------------------------------------------

Edit: ooops, the forum screwed up my "nice" drawing... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Hope you still understand what I mean.

[Kraellin]

dunno. the ai does have problems at times with pathfinding when there are impassable zones on a map.

i'm a little busy at the moment to try and look at the map and sort it out, but maybe one of our new resident map makers could give you some tips or fix it if you posted the map somewhere or emailed it to someone.

K.

[trader/warrior]

pantha:i have done that it still wont work

[PanthaPower]

Quote[/b] (trader/warrior @ Dec. 31 2002,09:47)]pantha:i have done that it still wont work
Hmmm, well, it might be an idea to upload it so that a few people could take a look (what Kraellin suggested).

But I have one more idea for you to try. What I noticed a lot too is that the AI seems to love making holes in the side of my castle instead of breaking the gate. Well, maybe you can modify your walls a little so that you have a tiny piece of wall on the left and right (which might trigger the AI to attack there if it is programmed to sometimes hit the sides of a castle too).

Oh, just thought of your other idea of adding walls on every side. Well, maybe the AI is getting triggered to attack the weakest position of your castle (in your case no walls). This can be tested quite easily by making a castle on a flat surface map without any cliffs or anything that obstructs the computer. Make the front gate easy to breach and wall the rest in with 2 or 3 layers of walls. See if it will still try to go through the side. If it attacks the front a few test in a row, you know how the AI works. If it still tries to attack the sides, then I'm afraid we can forget about a helmsdeep mod when there is an AI attacker involved.

Here's again a crappy example of what I mean for my first idea:

-------------------------------------------------
|xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx|
|xxxxxxxxxx ===== xxxxxxxxxxxx|
|xxxxxxxxxx = = xxxxxxxxxxxxxx|
|xxxxxxxxxx==========xxxxxxxxxxx|
|xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxx|
|xxxxxxxxxx= =xxxxxxxxxxx|
|xxxxx = = xxxxxxx|
|xxxxxxx ========== xxxxxx|
|xxxxxx xxxxxx|
|xx xxxx|
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
----------------------------------------------------

[Lion King]

Trader/Warrior, The problem with your map is the Ai logic, it does not recognize the map as an assault map and wont treat walls/gates as objectives thus, wont try to destroy/Break through them. the reason this happens is because you have to close your castle, every single wall must be connected to at least two others, with grid locking on

What i mean is:

X Cliffs
= Walls
G Gate

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXX=======XXX
XXXX= =XXX
XXXX===G===XXX
XXXX= =XXX
XXXX= =XXX
XXXX===G===XXX

I am afraid its the only possible solution, Sorry.

[NagatsukaShumi]

Send it my way and I'll have a look at it for you Trader/Warriors samandshirley@splaxton.fsnet.co.uk

[Alrowan]

well ive just made my helms deep map, but i tend not to play them in SP much. it works up to a 3v3 with the deployments, but isnt a siege map... ill give the AI some cannons, then see how it fares

[Alrowan]

ok, here is the link to my version of the map, started from scratch:

http://www.totalwar.org/Downloa....eep.zip (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWupload/Alrowans_Helms_Deep.zip)

[trader/warrior]

maybe you guys don`t know how helms deep looks like. i cheked on the LOTR page and it looks more like this:

c: the main keep
=: walls
x: cliffs

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxx xxxxxx
xxxxxx xxxxxx
xxxxxx cccxxxxxx
xxxxxx=====ccxxxxxx


so that means that i have to make it like this:

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxx=======xxxxx
xxxxxx= =xxxx
xxxxxx= ccc=xxxxx
xxxxxx=====cc=xxxxx
====
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[NagatsukaShumi]

I know what Helms Deeps looks like dude, send it my way like I said and I'll see what you can do if I can.

[Lion King]

Trader/warrior, you understood it correctly, even with my crappy drawing, thats the way to go, just make sure you use grid locking
one thing though, to have that "breach the gate" effect, add a gate just in front of the keep too.
you see different helms deep's maps because some people take their ideas from the book as well.

Alrowan, your map looks and works great, but only in the northern side. The AI has the pathfinding problems because the fortress isnt closed, the textures look very weird on the mountains, units near the walls/cliff suffer from formation problems, the gate doesnt work and routing units from the defenders cannot escape. Basically it is unplayable against the AI, it wont go in.
The same probably cant be said for MP though. Also, i simply love that cute little village.

a good exploit against the AI in these unclosed maps is adding a catapult to the defenders, they will have the day of their lives shooting at amassed troops near the walls (you can get about 20 kills in one shot if you get lucky)

anyways, keep trying guys, you are almost there, just close the thing and it should be fine

[Lion King]

BTW, i am a knight now much better avatar than that ugly man-at-arms

[Alrowan]

thanks for the feedback.. i know about the gatehouse, its more for looks that practicality

some notes on closing a fortress though, you can only deploy within it, and helms deep in the book was just a wall really, that blocked the valley. As for textures, point out where they look wrong... and ill try fix them as best i can. As for the boundries of the cliffs and stuff, its hard to get those perfect, but im working on it


ill say it again though, to close a fortress to helms deep would make the map crappy... mainly due to AI deployment on the cliffs above, the fact all walls mush be 5-6 spaces from the edge, making an accurate map also look wrong as it never was a closed off fortress.

helms deep in tolkien is a wall, and a keep, like in the movie, not an enclosure. Anyways, if i made mine an enclosure it wouldnt be epic at all

[Alrowan]

my map:

x=mtn
c=cliff
K=keep
-,_,|=Walls
1.,2.,3.,=attackers start
4.,5.,6.,=defender start

please note the new gateway, its an S bend made of walls, as i dont want to make an entire enclosure

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxx xxxxxxx
xxx 4. 5. 6.xxxxxx
xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxx _||K xxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxcc---|_-|_ccxxxxxxx
xxxccccccc ccccccxx
cccc ccc
x x
x 1. 2. 3. x
x x
xx xx




ed. now thats a mess

[Kraellin]

hehe, you guys are tempting me strangely ;)

if you really wanted to do up helm's deep in a most interesting fashion, and get the ai to work correctly with it, you'd pretty much have to go back to the old shogun map editor and bring it forward to mtw. very tricky stuff, but there are features in the old editor that would do the trick.

but, apart from all that, i'll be interested in seeing what folks come up with here. i'd also think that the 'black gates of mordor' would be another good map venture. some interesting tricks that could be done there as well.

K.

[trader/warrior]

Quote[/b] (Lion King @ Jan. 02 2003,11:37)]Trader/warrior, you understood it correctly, even with my crappy drawing, thats the way to go, just make sure you use grid locking
i think this is a really stupid question: whats grid locking? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif