Dr Ranajit Pal???

[Che Roriniho]

Hey there, long time no see, people. This is a historical question, so if this is in the wrong place, let me know.

I recently came about a theory that Diodotus of Bactria (Soter), and the great Asoka of India are the same person. I find this mind-boggling at the least, but I am treating this with a a high degree of suspicion until I find out more about the author of these claims, Dr. Ranajit Pal. Anyone know anything about either the theory or the good doctor?


Thanks again,

CHE

[Ibrahim]

Hey there, long time no see, people. This is a historical question, so if this is in the wrong place, let me know.

I recently came about a theory that Diodotus of Bactria (Soter), and the great Asoka of India are the same person. I find this mind-boggling at the least, but I am treating this with a a high degree of suspicion until I find out more about the author of these claims, Dr. Ranajit Pal. Anyone know anything about either the theory or the good doctor?



CHE


you would have to explain why Asoka is described as coming from an Indian family, while Diodotos is Greek or Makedonian.

that, and Asoka was in places where Diodotos wasn't (e.g. east India), and vice versa (e.g northern Baktria). then there are the differing reign length iirc.


but yeah, a historian will have to clarify.

[Hannibal Khan the Great]

Great, so now Baktria gets all its Indian provinces from the start?:clown:

[gamegeek2]

It's a conspiracy!

[Hax]

Apart from that, Diodotos never converted to Buddhism during his lifetime, as far as I know. Also, the Edicts of Asoka clearly speak about Asoka, not one "Diodotos".

[Mediolanicus]

This makes me think of that Russian professor who claims that Russia actually ruled the whole world during most of human history, but that history was then rewritten by the Western nations.

It was in a thread here on the .org I've read about him. An old thread; 2 years old or so...

[Iain.]

Where did you read this theory?

I'd quite like to have a look at it myself.

[mountaingoat]

I would also like to read this

[Mediolanicus]

Found him!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Chronology_%28Fomenko%29

[Che Roriniho]

Near the bottom of Wikipedia's GBK independence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Bactrian_Kingdom#Independence_.28around_250_BC.29

5th paragraph of this: http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2007/2007-12-39.html

[Hax]

His theory on his own website (http://www.ranajitpal.com/ranajitpal_Asoka.htm).

[Intranetusa]

One of those BS history-conspiracy theories on the same level of:
Neo-Nazi bs like "Nordic Caucasians are responsible for Egyptian, Sinitic, Dravidian, etc civilization"
or Afro-centric bs like "Egyptians, Celts, and the Shang Dynasty were sub-Saharan Africans, etc"

[DeathFinger]

Wow.... I've not read his book but...

At first sight, no Mauryan king are known to have struck coins with their name. Their coins were all punch-marked ones, in karshapana weight; so this argument is not.
And Devanam (piya) is not really equal to Sôter. Even if it was, we have two Diodotos, one Theos, the first, and one Sôter, his son. This is at least attested by the Euthydemos commemorative coinage.
And not refering to Diodotos... is it an argument? It's pretty uneasy to made argument ex silentio, especially when this Diodotos wasn't recognize by his greek neighbours like a king, just an usurper. We even must know the exact date of those Edicts referring to Greeks before beeing tempted to take this argument...

[Che Roriniho]

As I say, I'm giving this theory a significant level of suspicion, but it would explain some aspects, although more from the Mauryan side of thinmgs, as opposed to the baktrians. Before Ashoka came to power, he was sent to deal with some rebelling greeks in the north west of his kingdom, and if he was known as a friend of the greeks, that would explain why he didn't need to use any force to stop the rebellion.
seluceaus I, I believe had a 'marriage agreement' or something (It was mentioned in a wikipedia article, so I'll need to double check the date) with the mauryans, so this could, in theory, be Ashoka's mother. It is far-fetched, but it would, to ean extent, explain why the early GBK is shrouided in such mystery.

[Che Roriniho]

I don't quite agree here, as the majority of his theories (AFAIK) are, whilst slightly sensational, they don't massively change the history of the world, they just provide more detail.. It's because of this I am not dismissing him out of hand.

The question still stands though, what is his acedemic reputation like?

[Che Roriniho]

Anyone?

[abou]

Haven't read it I don't see much that gives me confidence. For example, from the Bryn Mawr Classical Review:

It sheds a new light on him and his supposed cruelty or whims. The text also highlights how Indology could help in the study of the history of the Hellenistic period. However, the absence of an index is an irritant. Also, credit for the pictures and maps is not given. A bibliography would have greatly enhanced the value of the book. Finally, for Western readers whose familiarity with the Indian texts is inadequate, a prosopography or an index of kings and generals named differently in the Graeco-Latin and in the Indian sources would have been very useful.

So no index, lack of credit for works, and no bibliography? Sounds like quackery to me.

And it doesn't seem like he's done enough to be well known in the community.

[abou]

I don't quite agree here, as the majority of his theories (AFAIK) are, whilst slightly sensational, they don't massively change the history of the world, they just provide more detail.. It's because of this I am not dismissing him out of hand.Well, not of the world, but they massively change the history of the region. You have to expect me to believe that Asoka was Diodotos I, who had to cover his semi-independence from the Seleukids by some clever iconography on his coinage while simultaneously conquering much of India? Then, he passed on his incredibly powerful kingdom to his son, which was usurped by Eumenes, who then had his ass handed to himself by Antiochos III?

So you would see why I'm skeptical.

[Che Roriniho]

Fair call. And thanks very much, you saved me quite a embarrassing boob in my IB Extended Essay. Incidently, what recent authors other than Frank Holt do you recommend for the Early Greco-Bactrians?

[Fulminatrix]

no, thats just a wacky propaganda

[Ibrahim]

no, thats just a wacky propaganda

just like anything from John Ruben, and his "crow-knees". :clown:

@ Che: I wish I could help; however, I do suggest you look up the Wikipedia article, and simply see what sources the website cites for the information; then, use the links and ISBN numbers to hunt down those sources, and go from there.*

*I do NOT recommend using the Wikipedia article itself; I only go there to look up the sources, and do my own research.

[abou]

Fair call. And thanks very much, you saved me quite a embarrassing boob in my IB Extended Essay. Incidently, what recent authors other than Frank Holt do you recommend for the Early Greco-Bactrians?

Good question. Holt is the best I can think of. There are older historians such as Tarn, but so much has happened in the last century with archaeology that it might no longer be relevant. There have been writings by Greek historians, but I worry too much about nationalism creeping in and causing a skewed view of history.