View Full Version : Unit preferances.
If I lower the value of Peasants and Spearmen, will this in turn force the AI to make more MAA and other units. I hate seeing 3k Spearmen and Peasants.
Lion King
01-09-2003, 22:36
put the advanced units of your choice AI preferences (on the crusaders unit file) to 1000 so as soon as the AI can build them, it will, instead of relying on peasants
Yes, it seems I have to do that. Peasants have a normal value of 16.8 while the FMAA has crossed a couple hundred.
Still the AI should pick the advanced units over those lousy units any day.
Mithrandir
01-09-2003, 23:37
Posted in EH by JayRock (?).
hello all, first post
been cruising this board for about two months now..
and this is in regards to a post in the dungeon by kraxis titled unit preferances...
i think also that you need to alter the data in the unitbuild txt, and lower the building requirment for whatever unit you want the a.i. to build
ex: crossbowman requires a bowyer2 to build, reduce that to a bowyer, and it will build it quicker..
i mostly play sp, so the a.i. doen't seem to build structures, along a certain path, and won't accelerate a certain building type in order to get a specific unit, just my personal observation..
btw love the site, learned everything from how play better, to just starting to play around with the text files.. be a while before i try something bolder.
King David
01-10-2003, 00:48
Were in the unitprod file do you make that adjustment ? And how do I keep the AI from Making so many Agents like emmisaries ? In the Patrician mod the Pagans can build agents but they make so dam many of them it almost covers the map with emissaries. LOL
You go to the unit_prod file and look for something that looks like this: CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST (306.7)... and the various states the factions can be in. Just change the number.
I would still prefer to make the Peasants less interesting than uppig the other units as that could throw off the balance (it seems like only the Peasants and Spearmen are unbalanced here).
King David
01-10-2003, 19:13
What I did for the Romans in Patrician was, I took the peasants out of their build Q all together. I gave the peasants to the other factions and Made the advanced units like Orderfootsoldiers and such available early in the game by the building requirement being lowered.
other_unit_tooltip2" "PEASANT, YES, YES" "ARAGONESE, BURGUNDIAN, BYZANTINE, DANISH, FRENCH, GERMAN_HRE, HUNGARIAN, ITALIAN, NOVGOROD, POLISH, RUSSIAN, SICILIAN, SPANISH, SWISS, GOLDEN_HORDE" Notice that English and Papist are not included. The AI wont make them for those factions.
This Part is for the Orderfootsoldiers (A Roman Unit)
CLOSE_TO_SUPPORT_LIMIT(57.2)" {TOWN_WATCH2}
You can get them even earlier in the game by just changing the Town_Watch2 to just town Guard or watever building you can build as soon as you build that first castle. It just has to be one of those unit producing buildings.
You have got a point, at times the Peasants are a liability to the game.
But of course I would prefer to keep them in the game.
So if I then lower the numbers for the Spearmen I hope they will wanish from the game when better troops appear. Damn I'm tired of the Peasant armies everywhere.
King David
01-11-2003, 17:32
Peasants are useful at times. I have had a few battles were they completly overpowered my legions just by the sheer size in numbers (Canon Foder) coming from every direction. Of course I increased some of their stats to make them a little more daunting. My peasants number at 200 per Mob. My spearmen are jav chuckers and number 200 as well.
Naturally Peasants can be useful in almost any game. They can quickly and cheaply get the Loyalty up and can siffen defense, but they are a liability when it comes to massive armies consisting of 60% Peasants and 30% Spearmen the rest are Royals/Ghulams and a variety of more advanced units. Not funny at all. Too easy to kill.
Rebellions are fine with so many Peasants, it makes sense and then it is fun, as you can practice charges.
Lord Krazy
01-12-2003, 00:31
Are you saying no matter what you do
the AI will always buy peasants http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
What have you changed and to what degree?
LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
I haven't directly changed anything yet, it siply takes a lot of time to find out if something is right when you need to go perhaps 20 turns.
So I would want to learn from people who have actually done it. If it turns out no people have actually lowered the value of Peasants and Spearmen with success, then I need to do something else.
King David
01-12-2003, 20:35
Turn your lemons into lemonade. In this case, Given that Peasants and Spearmen seem to come out of the woodwork, Make them more challenging (Mod Them) The possibilities are endless.
Peasant: Light Infantry
Spearmen: Medium Infantry
UrbanMilitia: Heavy Infantry
Out of these three basic groups you can mod some nice Units (Touch up their Icons and Change some stats in unitprod11)for any faction. They dont have to be available cartblanche like in MTW they can be exclusive to one faction or several.
My fave faction did not Have peasants fighting in their army, they had to own land and such So I did not make them available to that faction altho they could be obtained as mercs.
King David am I understanding you right when I think you said I should make the lousy units more powerful? Well I don't like that... It takes out the fun of the game if those units are good enough.
No, my preferred situation would be for the AI to train them when nothing else is available then go for the better units as they come into the game.
MacGregor
01-13-2003, 03:09
The AI is annoying with Peasants. In early mode I usually see France mob all of Europe with just massive peasant armies every time I play.
How does CLOSE_TO_SUPPORT_LIMIT effect behavior?
I'd like to figure out how to change AI Peasant Horde armies too. I have the same misgivings as Kraxis regarding simply raising Feudal Knights for example to (1000) or something as this would create yet another imbalance I would think.
What kind of "craven whoreson" lord would send his peasants out to fight while he stays home with the Mrs. anyway?
CLOSE_TO_SUPPORT_LIMIT is about when the armies have become big enough that the cost of support equals the income, I would guess at least it is like that.
Any noble would send his peasants to war... it is cheap to replace them. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
King David
01-13-2003, 21:17
Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ Jan. 12 2003,19:19)]King David am I understanding you right when I think you said I should make the lousy units more powerful? Well I don't like that... It takes out the fun of the game if those units are good enough.
No, my preferred situation would be for the AI to train them when nothing else is available then go for the better units as they come into the game.
No sir, It is not my policy as a mod maker to cheat or make it easy for the player. I simply stated that these peasant units and spearmen can be made more interesting IE change their apearance maybe change weapons add shield etc etc. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/argue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/argue.gif
pyhhricvictory
01-16-2003, 15:50
I kind of agree with King David, In my current game the peasants are only vailible to the "less developed" Eastern Nations (Novgorod and Russia as well as Poland and Hungary) and they go out of production at the end of the EARLY period. This way, once the changeover happens, there are few to no peasant units in the field after a while. Oh, Muslim peasants were Almohad only, I hate those guys sooooo much http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
King David
01-16-2003, 15:57
For those of us who like to have the AI spawn those cool Units we like I suggest going into the Unitprod11.doc file and Changing the building requirement to one of the early buildings provided by the first 2 or 3 castles so that you can get your units early in the game. This is not cheating realy, it is just making the game more interesting. For example, Are you tired of the AI coming at you with just peasants Spearmen and militia units ? Why not substitute the peasant for a more advanced unit like orderfootsoldier or something like that? Who says you need a horse breeder to create cav ? You can create cav by making them available with any of the unit producing buildings. These are just some ideas for those of you who like moding or want to make an interesting mod....
"Why not substitute the peasant for a more advanced unit like orderfootsoldier or something like that? Who says you need a horse breeder to create cav ? You can create cav by making them available with any of the unit producing buildings. These are just some ideas for those of you who like moding or want to make an interesting mod...."
Well, that's not a bad idea. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif The problem is that unless the AI build preference was lowered for peasants as well as making the higher end units easier to build, the AI won't comply. (Of course, one might simply make peasants require a castle6 or something, but that would drastically effect game balance).
Ultimately, peasants must be available to the AI in reasonable numbers for it to function properly, if only for keeping province loyalty up. Unless the game were modded so that there was MUCH more income available to the AI factions, it couldn't afford to keep hordes of feudal knights or order footknights in every province, just to maintain loyalty. One might lower the rebellion factors, but that tends to lead to the AI factions eliminating each other during the first 75 years, leaving only 1 AI superpower, the player and a couple of very minor factions that present no real challenge (ZZZzzz). In short, play balance suffers. I've found that RAISING the rebellion factor in early.txt by 2 for each province (except already very rebellious ones) dramatically increases play balance. I'd like to get rid of all the peasant and urban militia armies that I face (with Varangian Guard or other high end units, it's no challenge), but how much should one reduce them without screwing up the AI? Has anyone done this? What were the results?
I do want to know how too. So far, I have tried to change the building requirement, available period, price but didn't get exactly what I want. Like Kraxis, I think that changing the AI unit preferrence (along with other things) will be better. However, I don't really know for sure what are those numbers mean. Also, I don't know exactly which AI referrence is for which faction so I can make adjustment accordingly.
Lower building requirement makes unit available sooner and easier. However, some unit still have the period restriction needs to be changed also. Moreover, AI still won't build those unit if they don't see the need or don't have the money (both for training and upkeep). So making the unit easier and cheaper to train for the AI is not the same as making the AI want to train those units.
Hope that I'm clear enough.
King David
01-17-2003, 18:24
Can someone explain how to manipuplate all those numbers in the unitprod11 file for AI unit election preference? Also how to balance out the early high late campaign files. I am having one hell of a time doing that since there has not been allot of info on it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif
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