Morrowind and Oblivion

[God Emperor]

I recently started playing Morrowind again, and I admit, I love the game. Everything in the game just seems so perfect; The deep politics, the enormous amounts of high quality books, the handplaced landscape, and finally the wonderful storyline and ingame lore - pretty much all that Oblivion does not contain. :laugh4:

As you have guessed I am not too fond of Oblivion, but which of the two games do you, the readers, like the best? and what is it that makes the game the best of the two mentioned?

[Justiciar]

Morrowind. Vivid memories abound. Remember the ascent of Red Mountain, running through the whirl of bloody ash as those creepy grey fellows claw at you? Your first gawp at the Ghost Wall, High Fane, Ald'ruhn's interior, or the fungal spires of the Tel'vanni? The first time you got lost in the wilderness only to stumble upon a whole new settlement you barely knew was there? Or the first time a swarm of Cliff Racers ganked you? Granted that happened so often you probably don't, but you'll recall the sensation, never the less. Probably the most memorable things in Oblivion were the scramble through Kvatch or the siege of Bruma. And even then.. Meh. I had to look up the latter town's name, Chris'ssakes.

This is probably the tenth time this topic's been raised here, btw.

[Beskar]

Morrowind is overrated.

You have people standing around doing nothing at all, absolutely no life to it. While some of the storytelling is good, the actual gameplay falls behind. Also, morrowind is ugly, even with the graphical mods vastly improving it.

Oblivion does a great job by doing good graphics (other than faces), great story, great gameplay. The problem is, all the dungeons types are identical within those types, but it does a lot which makes it bearable the first few times.

I am waiting for the fifth edition to come out.

[God Emperor]

oh.. I had no idea it was an often raised topic. Morrowind being overrated :( can't beleive what I am hearing. It is true the idea behind Morrowind was not fully realised due to the time it was created. Making the radiant AI, would not have been possible at that time (it was competing with Neverwinter nights I recall).
The way Justiciar describes Morrowind pretty good sums up the feeling I had when playing it for the first time. It is a game you need to roleplay in, but its not hard since all of the quests are both fun and gives more knowledge of the world.
I was baleful watching how Oblivion not only wrecked some of the lore (for instance the Spear embargo) which is completly stupid, but also made so many stupid mistakes like these forts around the map. It makes good sense to have them but why exactly are they inhabited by bandits :embarassed:

What I would want to see in a fith edition would be more of the brutal immoral politics of Morrowind (Never played Arena or Daggerfall, so I can't say anything about those) instead of the Do goody Oblivion. The Empire has lost its emperor, and with the empire divided, one would think the Dukes and counts of cyrodill would grasp the power that lies in this oppertunity. The most selfish of the Dukes is the Duke of Skingrad, and the reason why he is a semi bad guy, is that he wants something in return, for the favors he grants lol (and he is ofc a count dracula ripoff to make him more badass).

Where would you like the fith edition to take place Beskar? and what features would you like to see?

[rajpoot]

Morrowind is rather lacking graphically, but the atmosphere makes up for that. And when I played it after Oblivion, it got so dull that many times I had to push myself to finish it...but the reason I did that was because time and again there were these sudden surprises that made up for the hours of dull trudging.....I remember right after starting the game I'd gone North to the city of one of these houses, and on the way back I got lost in the sandstorm...I wasn't used to the combat then and was afraid I might run into some daedric creature......and it was an experience to remember.
Let's hope they make some progress with Morrowoblivion and Tamerial Rebuilt.

Far as I know the fifth game is set in Skyrim. And I hope they have fly-able dragons in it.

[caravel]

hours of dull trudging.....
That sums up Morrowind for me. I really wanted to like it, but with both short attempts about 12 months apart, I still ended up shelving the game after a few hours of bored and bewildered playing - the last attempt was final. The graphics don't bother me - I think they were good for their time - but the appalling clunky controls, irritating combat and endless clicking through line after line of pointless dialogue just ruins it for me. It is, IMHO, highly overrated.

NWN1 beats it hands down in terms of overall game design, controls and interface - just a pity that the plot and character develoment in NWN was so cheesy and simplistic.

:2cents:

[Beskar]

Have to agree with india and Asai. When I first played through Morrowind on the Xbox, I enjoyed the story, etc, but after playing Oblivion, I just can't will myself to play it any more, as I pretty much know the stuff and the game-play and graphics even though remedied by somewhat by mods, is lacking.

As for he 5th edition, I would love to see new areas, but what I really would also love to see, is a return of Morrowind and the Imperial City, in a sort of Value-esque "Source" update, as an expansion. So now you got up to date AI, Graphics, systems, etc across the worlds. One other thing is I would like it so when you become "Grandmaster" of a guild, it isn't "gameover" for that guild. As such, you rebuild the Dark Brotherhood. Perhaps allowing automation to a "second-in-command" if you don't want to continue, but if you did, you can recruit new members, conduct random assignments, etc.

[ReluctantSamurai]

At the time Oblivion came out, my gaming rig wasn't up to the task. I could just run Morrowind on moderate settings. My current rig could easily handle Oblivion...I just haven't gotten around to picking up a copy:shame:

I enjoyed the ambiance of Morrowind. I especially liked 'decking out' all of my different enclaves in Vivec, Balmora, and several other places. Red lanterns for highlighting Daedric stuff, green for glass..............

......oh yeah, there was a reason for me to be traipsing around the countryside from one end of the continent to the other, wasn't there?:laugh4:

I played through two maybe three games.....and Morrowind suffers from one of the great plagues of this type of genre........once characters get mid- to high level, they more or less end up the same, as original class distinctions blur. And too many 'perks' for a player to use. Starting with a Nord (100% inv. to frost) and adding all the various pieces of armor and enchanting to the limit, my character was 100% invulnerable to fire, frost, electricity, and poison by level 30. The final showdown was easier than some of the random battles offered in-game.

So replayability is poor, IMO. But it was enjoyable, nonetheless, as far as it went.

[Vladimir]

Never played Oblivion but I can sympathize with the traveling drudgery of Morrowind. It did, on occasion, lead so some exciting finds; however, following the often poor in-game directions were often frustrating. Now I would say it was like finding bin Laden!

Morrowind was highly replayable. I created a different character for each of the houses and another to just run freelance (literally. I cranked up his speed and made him use a spear).

Skyrim doesn't sound interesting; just a trip to the frozen north. :shrug:

[rajpoot]

Skyrim doesn't sound interesting; just a trip to the frozen north. :shrug:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Skyrim

Nords are my favourite race in the TES series. They are according to ingame lore direct descendants of the original humans, who had come to Tamerial from across the ocean. And are the only remaining race with purely human blood (Imperials are Human+High Elf).
Atleast by what I know of TES lore, a game set in Skyrim can be a hell of a ride...though the landscape might be slightly dull......the highest peak of Tamerial is supposed to be in Skyrim, inhabited by old old men who have voices that can shatter stone walls.
Can't wait for TES V.

[God Emperor]

There has also been arguments that the game would take place in black marsh, which in my oppinion sounds very interesting. The best lorebuffs are found on http://www.imperial-library.info/forum just for info.
As the pro-Morrowind I am, I must agree with Vladimir that Morrowind is highly replayable. I must have made at least 500 characters (where 400 of them might have been dunmer). In Morrowind the chars do quickly get overpowered, if you force them to be, as ReluctantSamurai mentions, but Oblivions level scaling sadly does not fix this error.

In Oblivion your character, basicly is strongest at level 1, and he gets weakened with level, due to level scaling. If you wish to powerbuild your character, you wish to remain at level 1 and all the skills you wish to use, remains as minor skills. Therefore your major skills should be: Security, Heavy armor (or light armor) , blunt weapon, hand to hand (taken you chose to use blade), and some random magic skills, like conjuration. Playing a Nord or a Breton is also a good choice here.

for high level powerbuilds you will play an Altmer or Nord, (because with atronarch and some sigils you will quickly become imune to all magic), you also wish to use light armor, since it naturally is lighter than heavy armor, and in Oblivion you can at best have an armor class of 85
anything wrong in this Oblivion powerbuild perception?

[Centurion1]

You don't have to powerbuild and fighting characters ain't that hard. Plus superior weapons and tactics do make the game much easier even with scaling later game.

[Beskar]

I dislike the item scaling, so you end up with bandits fully laden with the best equipment in the game. Though on my rogue character, I pretty much just played in the Brotherhood suit the entire game, as it looked good.

I am aware you could make your character invincible (4x +20 chameleon), but unless you actually want your character like that, then no point. Oblivion gives you the opportunity to play the game as you like.

[seireikhaan]

Never played morrowind, but did put a decent bit of time in on Oblivion on a friend's 360. Game was pretty fun, but felt overly large. Plus, I stalled out on around level 25 or so trying to this one particular quest for the mage's guild-
Just could not beat those three wraiths parked in the mage's guild that had been attacked. Wraiths were were the bane of me wherever I met them.
The assassin's guild quests were great fun, however. Especially that house party one with the 5 or so guests.

[ReluctantSamurai]

I can sympathize with the traveling drudgery of Morrowind.


and again there were these sudden surprises that made up for the hours of dull trudging

I never felt that way while playing. I used the Propylon Index plug-in to get around....saved a lot of time. Plus I enchanted a cloak with a permanent 1pt of levitation (along with whatever I could squeeze in for chameleon) so rather than having to walk/run/jump around it was "glider city".


irritating combat and endless clicking through line after line of pointless dialogue just ruins it for me.

Now there's a couple of points I agree with. I've always wondered how those mage-types could run backwards so fast, casting spells, without tripping over anything:inquisitive: And speaking of mages....rather underpowered. They get about as far as "You will suffer grea..........".


but the appalling clunky controls

NWN's system of quick-slots was so much better. Accessing your inventory was easy and seamless when in the heat of battle, unlike Morrowind's awkward keyboard shortcuts.....................

And as Asai has pointed out, the dialogue could've used some help.............


I must have made at least 500 characters (where 400 of them might have been dunmer).

:shocked::shocked::shocked: You really played through 500 times??? You must have the patience of Job.....or an addiction of epic proportions:laugh4:

[Scienter]

I played Morrowind to death when it came out. I played it once through vanilla and then several times heavily modded. I don't think I would go back and play it again now because I'm sure the graphics won't hold up. But, it was my favorite game for a long time and I have fond memories of staying up all night playing it when I should have been studying.

I played Oblivion, but didn't enjoy it as much as Morrowind. I felt like the cities in Oblivion were all very similar, and it made me miss the diversity of the cities' architecture and culture in Morrowind. Though the assassin guild quest in Oblivion was awesome.

[lars573]

When my 360 took a crap on me I went back to Morrowind. It reminded me of why I love Oblivion. There are VERY few times when between iterations in a series all of my problems get addressed. Oblivions fast travel system obliterated Morrowinds endless trudging. And I beat Morrowinds main quest, fighters guild, great house, Tribunal, and several parts of Bloodmoon. (I have the patience of the Tokugawa, the Kree supreme intelligence, or Vandal Savage (Job had nothing on those three). The full voices (even if there only were like 8 VA's), more life like AI. And if all that costs was the mushroom kingdom of north east Vvardenfel and the land crab houses of north west Vvardenfel, well I call that a bargain.

Plus the Dark brotherhood (there was an actual assassins guild in the ES world, they were outlawed and then the Dark Brotherhood killed them) quests, and the Daedric quests really went up a notch. When it rains flaming dogs you know your in for a treat. And then the unwilling nudists dinner party was a blast. Hoisting a dunmer lord on his own petard was lol too.

[rajpoot]

Oblivion also had some funny quests....not very funny....but considering that the models didn't really have many expressions then....
One which I remember was about this paranoid dunmer from Skingard.

[lars573]

Gwarhil was a Bosmer. And if you played that quest right, he'd go all spree killer on his "enemies."

[Fragony]

Morrowind for the win by far. Just a much more interesting and diverse gameworld. Introduced it better as well, could have been a wow moment if the didn't let you start almost right into the city.

[rajpoot]

Ahh yes, bosmer....dunmer are from Morrowind :embarassed: I got confused.

But I almost never did the killing spree thing. Played the whole game as a paragon character (I have forgotten what we called the 'good' characters before ME was released).

[lars573]

It's been the same for most ES games. Altmer (high elf), Dunmer (dark elf), Bosmer (wood elf), and Orsimer (orcs).

[Ja'chyra]

What's the best levelling mod for Oblivion, we all know the scaling thing doesn't work.

Any other essentia mods that are worth looking at?

[CountArach]

great story, great gameplay.
You're joking right?

[lars573]

I agree with him. But Morrowind also had good story telling. Oblivions was better, full stop. I loved Oblivions gameplay.

[Centurion1]

The leveling isannoying but not as hard as people make it sound. Its annoying because it make getting money ridiculously easy.

[Decker]

I've only played Morrowind since I can't get Oblivion to work properly. I like Morrowind a lot and am actually playing it again right now and just exploring the game. I like the world of Elder Scrolls, it's deep, full of all sorts of things that keep me interested. I picked up Daggerfall over at the TES website and have only just barely scratched the surface of that game as well. I hope to play Oblivion before the next installment comes out. I can't say a whole lot about Oblivion since I've only played it for about a few hours (on my brother's 360). What gets me is how people can play a game like Morrowind or Oblivion for only a few hours and say its not good. Each game has it's own positive and negative points and both are part of a series that is set in the same world the Bethseda has created and allowing, with each installment, the public to go out and explore that world. So in stead of just reading about the world in books you can write your own story depending on what you do. I'd say right now I'm biased towards Morrowind but I'm sure it won't stop me from liking Oblivion as well even if it's not as much as Morrowind.

[Raz]

TES V? Hmm....
I hope Bethesda get bored of the series and branch off into a different game; same genre and scope, but starting afresh would give fans something new.
It would also serve for them to create something truly amazing with TES V. Something utterly grand and replayable (I want to say "epic" but that's used enough on the internetz). I can never see why large games like this have never tried to adopt randomly generated landscapes/worlds/dungeons/towns etc, (at least with the less important locations). Hrmm...

Edit: I suppose the Diablo series has randomly generated locations. But that's the only one that comes to mind, and I haven't tried the latest installment.

[rajpoot]

The series used to have randomly generated area before Morrowind. Far as I know the wilderness and dungeon areas in Arena and Daggerfall were all random. The quests also were random.

[rvg]

Have both, played both.

Morrowind.

Pros:
Beautiful landscape. From Ashlands to forests, to fields, to little islands, to undersea grottos. Oblivion doesn't even come close.
Levitation. Loved it.
Being a vampire actually meant something. There were vampire clans and most people shunned you.
Multitudes of Guildes, Temples and Houses. Not 4 like in Oblivion, multitudes.
Main quest. Very subtle, very non-rushing.
General open-endedness.
Beast races actually felt different to play (I loved the argonian swimming animation).

Cons:
Cliff Racers. Nuff said.
Clunky spellcasting mechanics.



Oblivion.

Pros:
Superior Graphics.
Voice Acting (not great, but better than none)
The Dark Brotherhood Questline. Quite possibly the best chain of quests I've ever played in any RPG. Ever.
Horses.
Much better interface and magic system.

Cons:
Bland, boring landscapes. (non-existent underwater landscaping)
Beast races are poorly done.
Main questline made me feel rushed.
Too few guilds.

Overall though, I'd recommend both games

[rajpoot]

What's up with everyone loving the Dark Brotherhood quests so much?
I thought that the ones in Knights of the Nine were a lot better and unique....

[Raz]

The series used to have randomly generated area before Morrowind. Far as I know the wilderness and dungeon areas in Arena and Daggerfall were all random. The quests also were random.

Yes, but in Arena you could point yourself towards any city in Tamriel and walk onwards for eternity but you'd never actually reach the place. The only legitimate form of travel was the fast-travel. The randomness was there because of limitations, not to improve replayability.

[lars573]

What's up with everyone loving the Dark Brotherhood quests so much?
I thought that the ones in Knights of the Nine were a lot better and unique....
Simple really. In other RPG's with quest lines like the Dark Brother also have morality systems. Which would severely affect the overall game if you go whole hog into the DB style quest lines. The ES lack of a morality system means you can dive into the psychopathic villainy of the Dark Brotherhood and once it's over, no consequences. And Knights of the nine is supposed to be the polar opposite of the Dark Brotherhood. I actually enjoyed both. Solving the puzzle of what crusader relics to get in what order was a good challenge.

[Beskar]

Simple really. In other RPG's with quest lines like the Dark Brother also have morality systems. Which would severely affect the overall game if you go whole hog into the DB style quest lines. The ES lack of a morality system means you can dive into the psychopathic villainy of the Dark Brotherhood and once it's over, no consequences. And Knights of the nine is supposed to be the polar opposite of the Dark Brotherhood. I actually enjoyed both. Solving the puzzle of what crusader relics to get in what order was a good challenge.

ES has "infamy" which works similar to good/evil. So if you do bad things, you can end up getting barred from churches and the guards hating you. (plus people on general, with some, even liking you more).

Thing is about Dark Brotherhood, it is actually tailored assinations. Most games it is simply "kill x, go out". In Elder Scrolls, it is a mix of 'thief' and assassin's creed. You have to sneak about, do secret paths, try to play people off against eachother, etc. You even get paid more money and get rewards for going about the special ways.

Obviously, you could waltz in and go "MURDER TIEM", but there is absolutely zero fun in it. Which is probably why some people didn't like the quests. (as they did that)

[lars573]

Infamy is only accumulated if you get caught. And/or escape from the clink. Not like in Fable (which isn't really an RPG) or Fallout. Where if you do bad things your immediatly dealt an evil point.

[TevashSzat]

The big difference the two for me was that Morrowind just seemed much more epic and grand than Oblivion. There was so much stuff to do (ie just think of how many guilds there actually are in Morrowind compared to the 4 or so in Oblivion) and it always seemed like there was something new. Oblivion, although quite epic in some respects, just didn't give me that feeling and lacked content in a way compared to Morrowind.

[lars573]

All told Morrowind only had about 3 more guilds than Oblivion.

Both have these incommon
Blades
Fighters
Mages
Thieves
Assassins*

Unique to Morrowind
Imperial legion
Imperial cult
Great House
Vampire clan
Tribunal temple
East Empire company
Nord Villiage

Unique to Oblivion
Arena**
Knights of the Nine
Mad-gods court

*Two different guilds that amount to the same thing
**I could never be bothered with the Arena in Morrowind so it might very well count as common to both.

[johnhughthom]

**I could never be bothered with the Arena in Morrowind so it might very well count as common to both.

You can duel one character at the Arena in Morrowind, that's it.

You forgot the vampire clans in Morrowind and you have the three Great Houses down as one despite each questline being very different.

[lars573]

But you can't join all three, in the same game. Only one, so all though there are 3 it's effectively only one. It's really one of the few times in either of the ES games I've played where joining a faction closes off joining others. The Vampire clans are the other.

[johnhughthom]

Yes but that adds to the replayability of Morrowind, the very thought of playing through Oblivion again sends me to sleep.

[lars573]

Really? I've done that 4 times. If my Xbox worked I'd do a fifth.

[johnhughthom]

Really? I've done that 4 times. If my Xbox worked I'd do a fifth.

So you do multiple playthroughs? That pretty much makes your argument about only being allowed into one of three choices redundant. You can have three very different games in Morrowind, each with a lot of unique content, pretty much every playthrough of Oblivion is the same.

[God Emperor]

I completed the dark brotherhood along with the mages guild,here some time ago, and I had this feeling that about 50 % of the game was done:p

Though it makes no sense at all for me why the mages guild fights the necromancers, and further more, why it does not raise infamy for doing so.
The dark brotherhood was, I must admit, actually fun to play. Though I never got to use the poisoned apple :(

The Arena in Morrowind was used for more than one fight, but it is true, it was not a very active place

[lars573]

So you do multiple playthroughs? That pretty much makes your argument about only being allowed into one of three choices redundant. You can have three very different games in Morrowind, each with a lot of unique content, pretty much every playthrough of Oblivion is the same.
I was talking about Oblivion. If my Xbox 360 was working I'd play through Oblivion a 5th time. I've not done the Knights of the nine or the Shivering Isles but once.

And my Morrowind games are always very similar. Never do the thieves guild, stealth skills are too counter-intuitive in Morrowind. Great houses are not the best quest line, I don't like them. I've only ever done 2, Hilaalu and Redoran. I'll never go near Telvanni. And I'll never touch Hlaalu again. Redoran is the only one for me. I won't ever try and join the religous cults again either. Not after trying to join the Tribunal temple.

[God Emperor]

Concidering lore, It would make sense for your character to join the temple if he is in the house redoran :whip: :p