Tougher Eleutheroi please!

[Anakuj]

Greetings fellow EB-ers,

as the title says I would like to face tougher eleutheroi armies/garrisons at the long run. I also would like to preserve the indepence of the many colorful free tribes and kingdoms accross the world of EB - I just don't want to face 4-5 owerpowered superstates at the later game (250 BC onward) without any single 'free' state, because it could be very boring to fight off so many full stacks of the same enemy, and it just kills roleplay. EB for me equals diversity.

In vanilla I gave the 'Rebels' a significant boost in their starting armies and structures and a 10.000.000 denarii treasury instead of their basic 100.000. It was really needed because their unit upkeep fees turned as much as ~50.000/turn. And it works! They constantly build structures, train units and upgrade their cities! Like any other playable faction.
See this:
https://img710.imageshack.us/f/rometw2010071017514503.png/
It is 240 BC and there are independent polities all over the map. Great!

In EB there is ~300.000 mnai/turn upkeep for the eleutheroi. How many mnai should I add to their coffers to keep them in the long run?
--- I don't want to alter their starting armies just their treasury! ---

So help me please with your thoughts on this.

Thanks!

[Metaluis90]

it would really be a nice feature! I hate when I see the hated seleukids reaching in my game the shores of the adriatic sea when the year is just the 240bc


... on the other hand... didn't vanilla rome years last two turns because that way, in your image, you have played around 60 turns when in EB 60 turns means 15 years, i think.

[Ghaust the Moor]

To me this is both a good idea and a bad one. For one, Most eleutheroi towns are about even in thier army composition compared to most starting armies of every faction. By increasing the treasury you increase the difficulty rate of some very hard factions, such as Hayasdan or Pontus who already are hardpressed to find one town to conquer that doesn't affect alliances. But I do think this a good idea from a roleplaying standpoint to show difficulties in assimilating local populations and conquering unrepresented kingdoms. I think a treasury of around 800,000 would be good for the start but thats just a guesstamation so don't take my word on it.

[Rahl]

Since I like it to use toggle_fow and perfect spy to see how the factions are doing, I recognised that the eleutheroi are already building structures and recruiting armies. In the later game this happens even more when their number is lower. So the script already gives them much money to pay the upkeep. After I cheated them a million mnai they became extremely strong. So you probably don't need to give them too much more.
Sometimes I also create units for the eleutheroi mostly for roleplaying, sometimes to stop factions growing to fast in one direction. One problem I often have is that they begin to send their new armies out of the towns, leaving the towns often with only 1-4 units...

[Anakuj]

Thank you for your detailed thoughts!

I understand that this could increase the difficulty rate of some very hard factions, but I think I will risk and give them 10 million or so. (An old saying echoes in my mind, which I learnt at my first English lesson: 'Proof of the pudding is in the eating!' :laugh4: - so let's give it a try; will see the results!).

If you have any additional thoughts in the subject, feel free to share!


... on the other hand... didn't vanilla rome years last two turns because that way, in your image, you have played around 60 turns when in EB 60 turns means 15 years, i think.

You are right. It works in that way.

So how many mnai would you give to the eleutheroi (if any)?

[abou]

Uh... I thought the EB1 script already gave a lot of money to the rebels. We also factored in scripted rebel generals to guard certain provinces.

[Anakuj]

Uh... I thought the EB1 script already gave a lot of money to the rebels. We also factored in scripted rebel generals to guard certain provinces.

That is OK, but I would like to keep the many backwater (and really interesting) provinces' indipendence like Augila, Sinai, Amyrgia or Dahyu Iugra ...

What should I do? Do you think I can outbalance the game someway with the addition of that insane amount of many to the eleutheroi (some million)?

[XSamatan]

Bear in mind that if the rebels got money they will for sure upgrade their towns, so you will have many huge cities of different cultures. These may be hard to control, especially for AI factions.
My suggest would be to use MAA's City Mod as a basic to prevent the towns from growing to fast (maybe even variant 'b') and afterwards increase the amount he script gives the rebels.

XSamatan

[DionCaesar]

I very much like the idea, but if you need more aggressive rebels, or stronger armies, it's not necessary to give them more money. In my current Karthadastim Vh/m campaign on BI.exe, the rebels took 2 of my cities, and besieged Carthage itself! I was very impressed, for in any of my Roman campaigns they never did this.

As I said, I like the ideas and suggestions. Perhaps something for a minimod?

[Anakuj]

I very much like the idea, but if you need more aggressive rebels, or stronger armies, it's not necessary to give them more money. In my current Karthadastim Vh/m campaign on BI.exe, the rebels took 2 of my cities, and besieged Carthage itself! I was very impressed, for in any of my Roman campaigns they never did this.

As I said, I like the ideas and suggestions. Perhaps something for a minimod?

Wow, attacked by eleutheroi! I have never thought this is possible! Think about this: I give the eleutheroi 10 million mnai + start a very hard campaign.

About the minimod: it would be an awful lot of work (not to boost up starting resources/armies but to balance the whole new world and to not to increase the difficulty rate of some very hard factions).

[Grade_A_Beef]

If you think the Eleutheroi are easy, try playing as the Seleucids in VH campaign. Defending your borders are hard enough as it is without having to defend supposedly secure cities like Susa from random out of nowhere Eleutheroi stacks.

[Cute Wolf]

If you think the Eleutheroi are easy, try playing as the Seleucids in VH campaign. Defending your borders are hard enough as it is without having to defend supposedly secure cities like Susa from random out of nowhere Eleutheroi stacks.

seconded

but giving brigand and pirate spawn rate to 999 made they very rare to be spawned, but once spawned, they will appear in comfortably fullstack

[Grade_A_Beef]

but giving brigand and pirate spawn rate to 999 made they very rare to be spawned, but once spawned, they will appear in comfortably fullstack

Really? Where can I find such modifiers? I have no technical skills, but I'd love to fight full stacks rather than quarter stacks that I can bribe easily (as Seleucids.)

On the Seleucid topic unless you have FoW those random Eleutheroi attacks are like ninjas, sieging places like Susa or the province north of Persopolis with no warning at all

[Cute Wolf]

in descr_strat in the campaign folder inside EB modfolder (imperial campaign for RTW barbarian invasion for BI and alexander for ALEX)

you could see their spawn rate modifier, remember, smaller values gave u smaller stacks of rebel, but more frequent, and larger value gave you less frequent spawning, but they bomb your undergarrisonned settlement when they spawned (in VH/H campaign)

[Cambyses]

But if after 250 BC you yourself have an "overpowered superstate" (and you will eventually), do you not want to fight against other overpowered superstates and not bash on some weak unexpanded faction? I dont agree that its normal to have superstates at 250BC btw, but we'll go with that for now.

[Cute Wolf]

But if after 250 BC you yourself have an "overpowered superstate" (and you will eventually), do you not want to fight against other overpowered superstates and not bash on some weak unexpanded faction? I dont agree that its normal to have superstates at 250BC btw, but we'll go with that for now.

nah, keep on rolling (and I'm still try to blitz as fast as maximum efficiency and speed!!!!!)