Mycenaean Total War

[Ghaust the Moor]

Hello Eb'rs
I am currently planning on starting a new mod for RTW and I want everyones opinion on the idea. If you have time, please look over here: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?129373-Total-War-Age-of-Muk%C4%81nai&p=2522740#post2522740 and read the small article I wrote up hoping to gain support. If you have modding experience and want to help, just read the thing and send me a pm. Plus everyone please read it so I can know what everyone thinks of the idea. Thanks ahead if you can. Greek Specialists needed, badly.

--Ghaust the Moor

[antisocialmunky]

I like this period. I would be more excited but I know that the Volcano won in the end. :( Good luck!

[Ghaust the Moor]

Well thats how it goes for the Minoans, The Mycenaean just suffered poor harvest, invasion and stuff like that. Lots of speculation on that.

[oudysseos]

Have you looked at Troy Total War and/or its latest iteration, Aristeia? Basically got you covered, I think.

[Duguntz]

I like this period. I would be more excited but I know that the Volcano won in the end. :( Good luck!
Well, recent studies stated (in the book "history of the world" by J. M. Roberts) that the volcano did pretty badlt affect the Minoans but didn't erase them from the map. They did contiinue to live and even reconstructed the Knossos palace. however, they found proofs of successful foreign invasion from the mainland, greek speaking people (not yet greeks nor even mycean as their civilisation wasn't developed enough to be a civilisation on it's own) but none the less greek speaking people, that conquered, lived amongst the Minoans for a time, driving them from their cities. The Minoans were confined to small villages of the coast, and finally dissapeared in no time... so, Volcano wasn't the only antagonist of the story :)

By the way, I'm in love with that early period, so though I've no modding experience, I support the idea 110% Good luck!

[vartan]

Well, recent studies stated (in the book "history of the world" by J. M. Roberts) that the volcano did pretty badlt affect the Minoans but didn't erase them from the map. They did contiinue to live and even reconstructed the Knossos palace. however, they found proofs of successful foreign invasion from the mainland, greek speaking people (not yet greeks nor even mycean as their civilisation wasn't developed enough to be a civilisation on it's own) but none the less greek speaking people, that conquered, lived amongst the Minoans for a time, driving them from their cities. The Minoans were confined to small villages of the coast, and finally dissapeared in no time... so, Volcano wasn't the only antagonist of the story :)

By the way, I'm in love with that early period, so though I've no modding experience, I support the idea 110% Good luck!
Isn't it about time you got some modding experience? :laugh4: Is that a good book? And that's cool man. How many people did the volcano kill?

[Duguntz]

Isn't it about time you got some modding experience? :laugh4: Is that a good book? And that's cool man. How many people did the volcano kill?

The book is amazing, in my opinion, it dosen't tells any details precisly, because it is focused of the humanity's history, (of corse, from a scientific evolutionary point of view at the beginning) starting from about 4 millions years ago until modern time. the work is impressive (about 2500 pages). It relates the history of the different civilisation that existed in the world. for Minoans, the volcano didn't killed EVERYONE but mostly destroyed the economy, making the elands infertile... it is an interesting fact that the volcano eruption and the foreign invasion occured at about the same period. The invader tried to rebuild what have been destroyed, they even renovated Knossos and lived in it for a time, but never were they able to shine as much as the monians. During that preriod, though, trade with the mainland greece flourished, (tough before, the Minoans were known to trade with mainland greece for exportation, lybia for timber, asia minor and egypt for jewlry, and more that I can't remember by heart at the moment :) ) The comming of the invador was marked by a serious draw back in civilisation and technologic acheivment (they never built monument worthy of mentioning, but were mostly living off what the minoans accomplished)... they stayed for a couple of century (between 2 and 3, if I remember well) and vanished, as their population dwindled (infertility of the soil?), monument of the minoans were left to rott in the sun and the civilisation in the agean (of an advenced kind, I mean) dissapeared until the flourishing of the Mycean (sorry of the orthograph)...

Well, and to comeback to your principal question... It wasn't not said how many people were killed during the eruption, but that they were weakened enough to offer no real resistance to the invaders (as no sing of massive destruction were shown in archeologic discoveries, rather some decisive battles, massive killing, the skeletons being discovered in the same position they felt when killed, meaning the invaders proceed to a massive "cleaning" and went to live in the great centers of the island, mostly Knossos, and another city wich I forgot the name...)

[Drunk Clown]

It wasn't not said how many people were killed during the eruption

So, how many were there? :clown:

[antisocialmunky]

Not many, most of them took off in a bull-shaped airship east and settled the fertile valleys of Bartix. This is Atlantis we are talking about.

*ahem*

I've heard of theories of a diaspora from that area that link Greeks with the Sea Peoples that attacked the Levant and Egypt. So its possible that many people managed to get away from the volcano.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Peoples#Minoan_hypothesis

[vartan]

Not many, most of them took off in a bull-shaped airship east and settled the fertile valleys of Bartix. This is Atlantis we are talking about.

*ahem*

I've heard of theories of a diaspora from that area that link Greeks with the Sea Peoples that attacked the Levant and Egypt. So its possible that many people managed to get away from the volcano.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Peoples#Minoan_hypothesis
The so-called Sea Peoples were simply Phoenicians last I read about them. Their first conflicts with Egypt proved decisive as Egypt had not yet developed the weapons the Phoenicians had before. They adapted eventually, truth be told. I think Tyre was their eventual home-city. They were a sea merchants people with Carthage as one of the many port-cities.

[MisterFred]

Depends on who you ask. I had two professors cover them. The first was in favor of the Sardinain/Western Med. islander theory. The second insisted we couldn't be certain, but suggested he believed it was a series of migrations and conflicts from a variety of sources. (Dorics pushing Myceneans abroad, possibly in conjunction with migrations from the Western Med., Greeks pushing Anatolian peoples out, etc.)

The main argument I can think of against a Phoenician origin for the "Sea Peoples" is that the Egyptians were fairly familiar with the Levant, so might be expected to use a less generic term when referring to them.

[vartan]

Depends on who you ask. I had two professors cover them. The first was in favor of the Sardinain/Western Med. islander theory. The second insisted we couldn't be certain, but suggested he believed it was a series of migrations and conflicts from a variety of sources. (Dorics pushing Myceneans abroad, possibly in conjunction with migrations from the Western Med., Greeks pushing Anatolian peoples out, etc.)

The main argument I can think of against a Phoenician origin for the "Sea Peoples" is that the Egyptians were fairly familiar with the Levant, so might be expected to use a less generic term when referring to them.
At any rate, I would only see any Greeks as potential Sea Peoples if and only if they had iron weaponry. Egypt was hacked by the Phoenician iron works, and I don't know if Greeks had that sort of tech then.

[TheChuchulainn]

The so-called Sea Peoples were simply Phoenicians last I read about them. Their first conflicts with Egypt proved decisive as Egypt had not yet developed the weapons the Phoenicians had before. They adapted eventually, truth be told. I think Tyre was their eventual home-city. They were a sea merchants people with Carthage as one of the many port-cities.

The Peleset were Greek. Their pottery was essentially Mycenaean and they settled in southern Kanaan, at first building Mycenaean-style palaces before adopting Kanaanite culture.

[antisocialmunky]

There's a ton of speculation on the whole period because of the collapse of the Hittite Empire, Aegean States, and the various invasions including the Sea People and the Dorians. Heck, people even question the existence of the Dorians while they have no idea who the Sea People were. There's evidence that the Philistines early on used a Aegean script and had Aegean pottery before adopting some local culture as said above.

[vartan]

That Aegean-eastward movement you mention may very well include the very same people who moved Near East-westward to the Aegean long before.