Ashigaru Only

[Pedders]

Haven't been able to find this mentioned on a previous topic. Has anyone tried the campaign game using only ashigaru, and if so how did it go?

[Koga No Goshi]

I've done this in campaign mode many times! With Oda clan. And quit after the second battle. Hehe



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Goshi of Koga
Now we disappear,
Well, what must we think of it?
From the sky we came.
Now we may go back again.
That's at least one point of view.
-Hojo Ujimasa's seppekku poem.

[Catiline]

Unless you're a genius it can't be done. you need balanced forces (or Monks - sigh) to beat even the aI and using just ashigaru early on means you have no ranged attack option. when the portuguese arrive it'd get easier, but try hanging on that long wihtout samurai.

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Unless the Persians fly away like birds, hide in the earth like mice, or leap into a lake like frogs, they will never see their homes again, but will die under our arrows

[kaltes]

Actually yes I have done it, yes it worked pretty well, yes it was on expert level, and yes I'll tell you how:

#1 I used Hojo. It might be easier with Oda but my goal was to build citadels in every province, which means you can make as many ashigaru as you have koku for, and holding the shinano-musashi-etchu line and parts east gets you alot of koku.

#2 you attack on just about every turn, I would always hit ronin provinces then retreat, over and over, racking up wins on generals because the enemy always retreated because of my sheer numbers. The goal here is to get multiple generals up to 8 wins, which is a +2 honor bonus.

#3 once you have at least 1 rank 4 general, and preferably rank 1 base ashigaru (famous spear dojo) youve got a hoarde of honor 2-3 ashigaru. You can actually afford to fight some battles with these, though in order to win you have to play a little differently.

#4 When you have to fight, (which is rare) fight manually (autocalc SCREWS you unless you have your ashis upgraded under a very good general), see if you catch him split up, but if not use your numbers to get around his flanks. You might not always win but if your army breaks at least they're good at running away. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

As Hojo you will do fine in an early attack on Uesegi (you get to use your starting units at least) and once you have your initial expansion burst finished (for me it is always Musashi-Shinano-Echigo-Sado) you can wait and build up your armies to disgusting proportions. Echigo and Sado don't even need more than 1 unit as garrison since they border crap ronin lands youll be beating on anyway for wins.

Killing Takeda is cake, his cavalry and your endless sea of yari do not mix (too bad for him), and if you wait a few years and get a few thousand ashigaru (some upgraded by then), you can even trap daimyos in castles and kill them. Noone comes to their aid if you have a few thousand ashigaru camping in the province at least 1 unit of which is honor 2+. If you want an easy victory, then just march through Japan killing all the daimyos this way.

Keep Owari, it is the best province in the game for a peasant army, and it is a good base for killing off Oda and Imagawa once you get a Port or at least a dojo built.

In summation, the key to a peasant army lay first and foremost in superior generals (+2 bonus, see if you can get your daimyo or heir to +3 before the game ends) and vastly superior numbers. You accomplish this by constantly 'training' generals by invading weak enemy provinces, taking them without a fight, then abandoning them, only to retake them once again, and by targetting and destroying enemy dojos. If you see a castle: attack it. They cant train troops without castles built first. If you have more than 1 rank 4+ general, you can afford to split up your army, after all 960 honor 2 ashigaru can intimidate the AI pretty effectively. A handful of rank 2 generals are nice as backup for their +1 honor bonus, this really gets magnified when youre applying it to 16 units.

You definately need shinobi but 1 tea house should be enough, just make 1 every turn for a long time as long as koku is available, because they pay for themselves in allowing you to set punitive taxes without fear of revolts. You might have tons of ashigaru but youll need them all to bully other clans not babysit their relatives, because their 1/2 koku upkeep per man per year will, sadly, stagnate your economy unless you keep expanding. Use the solitary super-army of several thousand ashigaru with good generals to force all the daimyo into castles where seppuku awaits, then once they are dead you have won and you may kill off the ronins at your leisure.

Killing every daimyo can be done within 10 years without much trouble, but cleaning up all the ronin can take longer. The horrific attrition you'll get on autocalc is a blessing in disguise, because it kills off your older units and frees up koku for your newer units.

Other than upgrading to famous spear dojos, or legendary in Owari, don't waste your money on expensive improvements, other than silver/gold mines, farm improvements on 400+ base yield provinces, and ports. Ports are expensive so dont worry about them at first, but after 5-10 years you will need the to move troops around Japan to kill off all the ronin. Without any ports the endgame will be long and boring. The endgame already sucks because you should be given victory once youre the last daimyo standing, but whatever!

Honestly the ronin CANNOT beat you on their own, they cant go on the offense, so it is just stupid that you have to clean them all up in order to win the game, but oh well.

[Conquistador]

Yes, I did once when I was Oda, like in Hida.

Defender(Oda) : 4 ashigaru
Attacker(Imagawa) : 2 ashigaur, 2 yari samurai, 1 samurai archers (weather being fine)

my ashis are h2, where his archer is h1.

There are also several times I use ashigaru heavy army.


The most impressive one I made is

(Oda as attacker)
2 ashigaru
2 archers
1 yari samurai

beating
(Imagawa again)
1 ashigaru
2 yari samurai
3 archers

The second impressive one is against the ronin.

my daimyo + 2 yari samurai + 5 samurai arhers + 3 yari ashigaru beating

6 monks + 2 archers.

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I ride to fire to conquer.

[This message has been edited by Conquistador (edited 06-22-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Conquistador (edited 06-22-2001).]

[kaltes]

So Cat do you think I am a genius? How do you like my solution? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Shuko]

will try this unusual approach, but I can't afford to outfit all them Y/A with Nike runners http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

ps: how do you get them to turn around and actually fight or do yours fight backwards?