Mysterious Numbers

[A Nerd]

Can anyone tell me the difference between the stats in the action page and the sheild/weapon folders. And more importantly what these numbers mean. I read a tutorial and it refered to x-y axis and such but I found it very confusing. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (Running Backwards @ Jan. 23 2003,11:56)]Can anyone tell me the difference between the stats in the action page and the sheild/weapon folders. And more importantly what these numbers mean. I read a tutorial and it refered to x-y axis and such but I found it very confusing. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif
They are -

Pairs of x/y co-ordinates, used to determine the position of weapons or shields that are to be rendered on a figure image. They are specified relative to the images x/y-origin (this origin usually being somewhere near the centre of the figure image). These pairs are followed by a number, 0 or 1, that determines the rendering order.

Does that answer your question? Basically, if your not familiar with a little geomotry it is hard to explain.

[King David]

Wellington, would it be possible to display a Roman Turtle formation given those number position relationships?

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (King David @ Jan. 23 2003,14:37)]Wellington, would it be possible to display a Roman Turtle formation given those number position relationships?
Very interesting idea KD A short answer would be 'yes and no' with a lot more emphasis on the yes In other words, you CAN do this but you have to consider carefully the implications.

First, think in terms of the various ACTIONS a unit can perform on the MTW battlefield. Do you want your unit to perform such a 'turtle formation' every time they perform the action with which you've associated the shield positioning for that action.

Second, think in terms of the work involved in changing 8 numbers (4 pairs of x/y co-ordinates for a shield) for every frame (12 of) for a single action (4 camera angles).
You have to change around 400 numbers, both positive and negative, relative to the x/y-origin of the unit (that you CAN'T visualise).

It would'nt be so complicated. However it WOULD be quite confusing and VERY time consuming (trust me - I've done this) and you'd have to think hard about which units (images) would be suitable, which MTW action would be suitable for your unit performing a turtle formation, and whether or not you wish to 'live with' the fact that any unit so defined (via weapon/shield positioning parameters) will ALWAYS have either ...

- the full unit
- some figure images within that unit

... performing a turtle formation (shields over heads) if either YOU or the MTW engine has decided that an action should/must be performed by any specific unit.

The key to all of this is thinking in terms of ACTION

Think in terms of the action a unit is capable of performing. You CAN'T add new actions - they are predefined in MTW - and all the weapons/shields positions are directly related to a units action. Therefore if you wanted a unit to have 'shields over heads' it CAN be done - but such shield positioning MUST be associated with an action and the unit may, at times (eg: when they rout) perform actions that you dont always have control over.

Having said that, it's a great idea KD - bu it's an idea that would take some consideration and a LOT of frustrating shield positioning.

If you wish you progress further in this direction I'll put a few quick thoughts onto paper regarding specifics ( a write up in a bit more detail regarding your ideas) and post it to this thread.

(BTW: your mod is excellent and I can see why you would wish to incorporate such an 'action' for your units. However - it can be done - its a LOT of work - do you really want to do it?)

[King David]

Quote[/b] (Wellington @ Jan. 23 2003,16:47)]
Quote[/b] (King David @ Jan. 23 2003,14:37)]Wellington, would it be possible to display a Roman Turtle formation given those number position relationships?
Very interesting idea KD A short answer would be 'yes and no' with a lot more emphasis on the yes In other words, you CAN do this but you have to consider carefully the implications.

First, think in terms of the various ACTIONS a unit can perform on the MTW battlefield. Do you want your unit to perform such a 'turtle formation' every time they perform the action with which you've associated the shield positioning for that action.

Second, think in terms of the work involved in changing 8 numbers (4 pairs of x/y co-ordinates for a shield) for every frame (12 of) for a single action (4 camera angles).
You have to change around 400 numbers, both positive and negative, relative to the x/y-origin of the unit (that you CAN'T visualise).

It would'nt be so complicated. However it WOULD be quite confusing and VERY time consuming (trust me - I've done this) and you'd have to think hard about which units (images) would be suitable, which MTW action would be suitable for your unit performing a turtle formation, and whether or not you wish to 'live with' the fact that any unit so defined (via weapon/shield positioning parameters) will ALWAYS have either ...

- the full unit
- some figure images within that unit

... performing a turtle formation (shields over heads) if either YOU or the MTW engine has decided that an action should/must be performed by any specific unit.

The key to all of this is thinking in terms of ACTION

Think in terms of the action a unit is capable of performing. You CAN'T add new actions - they are predefined in MTW - and all the weapons/shields positions are directly related to a units action. Therefore if you wanted a unit to have 'shields over heads' it CAN be done - but such shield positioning MUST be associated with an action and the unit may, at times (eg: when they rout) perform actions that you dont always have control over.

Having said that, it's a great idea KD - bu it's an idea that would take some consideration and a LOT of frustrating shield positioning.

If you wish you progress further in this direction I'll put a few quick thoughts onto paper regarding specifics ( a write up in a bit more detail regarding your ideas) and post it to this thread.

(BTW: your mod is excellent and I can see why you would wish to incorporate such an 'action' for your units. However - it can be done - its a LOT of work - do you really want to do it?)
its a LOT of work - do you really want to do it?)
Its just an idea but I would not know how to do it. I was never too familiar with those numbers in the textures men folder. I do read your findings to gain better insight from time to time but I have been so busy trying to fine tune the PatV1.2 update coming up. I agree, its allot of work.

[A Nerd]

That is informative but why are different sets of numbers located in two places and why are they both necessary to make the piece move?

[Lord Krazy]

Quote[/b] (Running Backwards @ Jan. 24 2003,13:16)]That is informative but why are different sets of numbers located in two places and why are they both necessary to make the piece move?
They are in different places because one is for shields
and one is for weapons.
The shields are not displayed in
the same manner as the weapons.
The referance for the shields go into the shield folder
and the referance for the weapon in the weapon folder.

The shield has another dimension hence the extra
numbers in the coords strings.

If you look at the crossbow for example
it is defined as a shield so it can have that extra dimension.
It is normal to be confused by these numbers
even when you understand them http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif