Life of a roman Soldier

[Gazius]

Are there any good accounts of the daily life of a roman soldier what they went through during peace and war? If possible I'd prefer to find something I could read online, but anything is better than nothing.

[seienchin]

Depends from which country you are?^^ Which languages do you speak?

[Cute Wolf]

HBO's Rome
:clown:

~ (Legionary Titus Pullo is the one who impregnate Kleopatra!!!)

[antisocialmunky]

Probably one of the best sources are Roman letters. There was a huge cache of them dug up in England a few years ago. Here's a letter from Alexandria:

http://100falcons.wordpress.com/2009/11/25/a-real-letter-from-a-roman-soldier/

[Ichon]

Interesting... somewhere on the links to that Letter or elsewhere on the blogs is a guy asking a question about ancient maps of North Africa and the possibility the coast line around Gabes used to be much different with a long narrow shallow bay where the current saline lakes(-17m below current sea level) exist. It was intriging series of links that led to here http://books.google.com/books?id=oxYIAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=inland+sea+in+North+Africa&source=bl&ots=e2Y3Tj8dBu&sig=KwuxANossnjC-wDMe0z0vUSn0vg&hl=en&ei=2-VoTLKVH4P0tgPZ8tzLDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false before stalling with lack of information. Some of the info in that last link is immediately questionable but primarily the conclusions about results of digging a canal and reinstituting an inland sea. The references to ancient writers are intriguing and I'm curious if anyone has more information?

I used to work in climatology though that isn't my present career but I'm hobbyist about changs in coastlines and river system from 2000 BCE to 1000 AD and this is quite interesting. I've done much more research into Nile basin and Euphrates valley but never encountered this about a "Gulf of Triton." It is interesting from numerous perspectives including how North Africa was described as the bread basket of the ancient Mediterranean but presently has irregular rainfall and thus harvests vary widely. However it is even in the present day remarkably robust in agricultural production compared to most of N Africa and particularly in view of the limited irrigation in much of the arable land. This guy writing in 1880s also raises the point of the origin of elephants that Carthage used- climatologically the portions of the earth habited by man has seen many changes and it is certainly possible an inland sea even if relatively shallow could have had an interesting affect on the local climate.

Current sat photo from Google earth and there is clearly potential for some ancient inlet or even wider gulf. If anyone working on EB2 maps has more information I'd be very interested meanwhile I'll see if I can find more info myself. Making the map conform to possibly different but era correct coastline would be cool.

https://i842.photobucket.com/albums/zz343/FYBsomething/Re%2030W%2060E%200-50/satofTriton.jpg

[Darius]

I actually remember watching this one documentary on the History Channel and they had this one letter from some Roman soldier's on sentinel duty somewhere out on the northern frontier and the basic gist of the letter was that they were out of beer (or ale or something) and were sending men to the nearest settlement to get more. I about died laughing when I heard that.

[Foot]

I actually remember watching this one documentary on the History Channel and they had this one letter from some Roman soldier's on sentinel duty somewhere out on the northern frontier and the basic gist of the letter was that they were out of beer (or ale or something) and were sending men to the nearest settlement to get more. I about died laughing when I heard that.

That's probably the Vindolanda letters, which are beautiful to see. Lots of amazing stuff have been recorded and the fact that they survived is amazing.

Foot

[SlickNicaG69]

All you have to do, Gazius, is look at the present day and adapt the present conditions to those that existed back then.

If you do so correctly, you will have realized that life as a soldier for Rome was not much different as it is now; to some even better, rather than worse - where today are you allowed to keep wives in your outpost?

Most soldiers were on garrisoned outposts near the frontiers. They were the dominant class to a host of subject peoples (provincials). They were regularly maintained and cared for, within appropriateness and ability, and constantly forced to training and exercise. These things were the reason for Rome's greatness. Not to say it wasn't hard - when is it ever easy to be a soldier?! But, if you compare it with any other army aside from the present age, which other common soldier ever had the hope of living a life so privileged and unique?

[Megas Methuselah]

Were they punished for having fun with the numerous local women?

[SlickNicaG69]

Never for having mere fun Methuselah...

[Andy1984]

@MM: The US-base at Okinawa is pretty much what you're looking for. Even rapists are - at best - 'transferred' to another military base. I can't imagine these kind of things would be accepted during the EB-timeframe. You may find clues about it in sources about Bouaddica. From my own lecture (De Germania) it seems extremely unlikely any German tribe would have accepted rapists by Roman military forces, as adultery was punished quite excessivly by ritual flogging and banishment. Moreover, sexuality was ritualized heavily (despite frequent mentions of adultery between Germans by Tacitus). Women were given weapons at their very marriage, which symbolized the fate they shared with their husbands: if he died in battle, she'd either have to kill herself, or fight. I'm not saying German or other women couldn't be raped in these wars - as they quite often were - but rather that rape or sexual crimes would make peacekeeping a hard task. To me, this implies that Roman officers who didn't prevent/punish rape, adultery with married women or any other sexual crime, would have a hard time keeping the locals in check, and therefore have a strong incentive not to allow these.

kind regards,

Andy

[Blxz]

"At best, transferred". So at worst it would be more severe punishment?

I love stats though and it is interesting how the number of rapes in Japan rises proportionately to the number of foreigners in the area. Although there is also a good chance that only foreign rapes are reported, or that they are attributed to foreigners instead of a local man.

[Andy1984]

"At worst they're not punished at all." Sorry for the confusion.


I love stats though and it is interesting how the number of rapes in Japan rises proportionately to the number of foreigners in the area. Although there is also a good chance that only foreign rapes are reported, or that they are attributed to foreigners instead of a local man.
Replace 'foreigners' with 'US marines'. The former can be sentenced by Japanese courts, even when these foreigners are sex-tourists. The latter cannot, as the US-government won't allow her soldiers to be summoned before other courts than the US'. This obviously creates a kind of lawlessness, both due to a general masculine culture within the army (women in the US-army aren't safe from being raped by US-soldiers either) as well due a more general pornographic culture wherein young asians are percieved most beautiful. I agree with you though that other sexual crimes, as in most places, are probably underreported.


(On a sidenote: eightteenth-century university-city Leuven was almost 'famed' for the non-punishment of student-rapists. Anything less than well-thought and well-planned grouprapists weren't punished at all according to my historyprof. Students that 'accidentually' raped someone while drunk, generally got away with their crimes, despite the griefs and outrages of the local population. The reason: the university-courts that judged these students consisted of prof who had been students themselves...)

[Mediolanicus]

(On a sidenote: eightteenth-century university-city Leuven was almost 'famed' for the non-punishment of student-rapists. Anything less than well-thought and well-planned grouprapists weren't punished at all according to my historyprof. Students that 'accidentually' raped someone while drunk, generally got away with their crimes, despite the griefs and outrages of the local population. The reason: the university-courts that judged these students consisted of prof who had been students themselves...)

De iure much has changed in Belgian criminal law since then. De facto the change seems not to have been all that drastical...

[bobbin]

I don't think sexual assaults by soldiers would have been any less prevalent back then than today, the reason Boudicca treatment caused so much outrage was because she was a queen and leader of a whole tribe, if she had been a peasent women the reaction wouldn't have been anything like as big.

Also just because a society has strict laws for such crimes doesn't mean they happen less, many countries carry the death penalty for rape yet have worse rates because of other factors (extreme sexism etc)

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

Are you actually impling that you want to join the army so you can rape people? :inquisitive:


I don't think sexual assaults by soldiers would have been any less prevalent back then than today, the reason Boudicca treatment caused so much outrage was because she was a queen and leader of a whole tribe, if she had been a peasent women the reaction wouldn't have been anything like as big.

Also just because a society has strict laws for such crimes doesn't mean they happen less, many countries carry the death penalty for rape yet have worse rates because of other factors (extreme sexism etc)

Very good points, and to your last point.. it can be argued that the act that the laws are so strict, and carry such a heavy punishment, probably reveals that such crimes were prevalent..

Though I have to say that I agree with Andy1984 's point - that any local governer worth his salt would attempt to keep peaceful relations with what could be a very volatile populace.

[Cute Wolf]

Imagine a soldier's life in Roman frontier compared with today's US Soldiers....

Rape is just an actual form of watching porn... and in Roman times, Porn sites didn't exist....

[Ludens]

Rape is just an actual form of watching porn... and in Roman times, Porn sites didn't exist....

:inquisitive:
I doubt the women would have agreed.

[antisocialmunky]

Cute Wolf has not been to Pompei has he?

[Arjos]

Cute Wolf has not been to Pompei has he?

Ahahahahahahahahah XD

[vpapako]

Probably one of the best sources are Roman letters. There was a huge cache of them dug up in England a few years ago. Here's a letter from Alexandria:

http://100falcons.wordpress.com/2009/11/25/a-real-letter-from-a-roman-soldier/

Very interesting. That letter is in Greek. So egyptians during the reign of Trajan still spoke Greek. Either that or the soldier was illiterate and hired someone to write the letter and he wrote it in Greek because I guess it would be easier to find someone who could translate greek in the Eastern empire. Of course the fathers name is Greek so it could just have been a family who descended from the original Klerouchoi of the Ptolemies, which is my guess.

[Vaginacles]

actually greek was still the widely used language of the eastern mediterranian, which meant both native aigyptos as well as syrians, and judeans spoke it. The fact that he worshipped serapis might imply that he is of mixed birth, as serapis is a hellenistic/egyptian crossbreed god.

then again, serapis is one of those WTF? gods that everyone worshipped.. even some early chrisitians.

so yeah, your guess is probalby right ^_^

[bobbin]

Very interesting. That letter is in Greek. So egyptians during the reign of Trajan still spoke Greek. Either that or the soldier was illiterate and hired someone to write the letter and he wrote it in Greek because I guess it would be easier to find someone who could translate greek in the Eastern empire. Of course the fathers name is Greek so it could just have been a family who descended from the original Klerouchoi of the Ptolemies, which is my guess.

Most would not speak coptic, the native egyptian language, only the upper classes would speak greek.

Like you said, the soldier in particular was most likely a decendant of Klerouchoi (the letter was found in the Fayyum, a major settlement area for the Klerouchoi) or hellenised egyptian (Apion is an egyptian name).

[Loverartis]

I agree. The soldier's family was very likely important and rich.

If I don't mistake, in the beginning of the site page I read that the letter wasn't written by him, but by a "hired public letter-writer".
Why in your opinion? The soldier was able to write, I guess...

[bobbin]

I agree. The soldier's family was very likely important and rich.
Not really, the fact that he was a recruit in the navy implies the family wasn't that rich or important, certainly well off compared to the your average person though.



If I don't mistake, in the beginning of the site page I read that the letter wasn't written by him, but by a "hired public letter-writer".
Why in your opinion? The soldier was able to write, I guess...
There is another letter from Apion sent a few years later which is in different handwriting, meaning at least one or both were written by someone else, most likely a scribe.

[vpapako]

Does anybody know if coptic was still in use when the Arabs kicked in?

Also except hellenised Egyptians were there also romanized Egyptians.?

I am curious as at what state in terms of culture, language and religion was the majority of the native population in Egypt at the time of the Arabian conquest?

[Loverartis]

the fact that he was a recruit in the navy implies the family wasn't that rich or important, certainly well off compared to the your average person though.

Thus do you think that he and his family belonged to the Egyptian "middle class"?
I just want to point out a thing: in the letter he talks about a possible promotion; I suppose that few recruits might hope for a promotion.
In every case it always depends on what kind of promotion... (p.s. sorry for my english)

[bobbin]

Does anybody know if coptic was still in use when the Arabs kicked in?

Also except hellenised Egyptians were there also romanized Egyptians.?

I am curious as at what state in terms of culture, language and religion was the majority of the native population in Egypt at the time of the Arabian conquest?

Yes it was spoken by the majority of the native population until well after the Muslims conquests.

They were really one and the same after a while, many Roman customs would have been adopted but Latin never stuck as a language, think of it in the same way the Byzantine's were later on, they viewed themselves as Roman but were basically Greek.

Most would have been Coptic speaking Christians living in a Romano-Greek culture.


Thus do you think that he and his family belonged to the Egyptian "middle class"?
I just want to point out a thing: in the letter he talks about a possible promotion; I suppose that few recruits might hope for a promotion.
In every case it always depends on what kind of promotion... (p.s. sorry for my english)

Probably, note in the letter has actually says "because you brought me up well and I may therefore hope for rapid promotion, the gods willing", meaning he hopes for a promotion not that there is a possibility he will get one.

[TancredTheNorman]

Some great sources that are easy to find translations for are Josephus and Polybius, there have also been a large variety of letters unearthed from all over what was the Roman Empire, they range from a centurions wife inviting a friend of hers to her birthday, to a letter to Hadrian requesting an end to being whipped.

[Gaivs Jvlivs Caesar]

Perhaps we should talk about the lives of the roman soldiers in the legions garrisoned along the frontiers... - not just any ordinary roman soldier serving as town watch or something else... In which case the life of the most frontier troops from the regular legions was harsh.Along with the garrisson and patroling duties were the constant duties of drinking, pinching women and gambling.The letters to the relatives was not amongst the biggest hobbies of the roman soldiers when it comes to be on frontier.Well that's the small part of it.It's entirely different when the soldiers were on the march... the discipline grabs every soldier with it's iron grasp and there was no room for mistakes... After all the victory in battle was the soldiers reward for staying alive all that time fighting for the glory of the Empire or the Republic... - if we count the days of older Rome :D.After the reforms of Marius - we may say that the purpouse in live for every proffesional soldier was to stay alive till his retirement.