EB Poll: Scale your Infantry

[SlickNicaG69]

So on a scale from 1 to 21, scale each factions infantry strength, with 1 being strongest, 21 being weakest. Please do so according to the natural settings of EB. And yes, please include the slaves.

Aedui
Arche Seleukia
Arverni
Bactria
Casse
Epiros
Getai
Hayasdan
Carthage
Greece
Spain
Macedonia
Pahlava
Pontus
Egypt
Roma
Saba
Saka
Sarmatians
Germans
Slaves

[siegfriedfr]

1. Ptolemaioi
2. Epirus
3. Seleucid
4. Makedon
5. Carthage
6. Aedui
7. Arverni
8. Casse
9. Sweboz
10. Baktria
11. Pontus
12. Getai
13. Romani
14. Luso
15. Greeks
16. hayasdan
17. saka
18. pahlava
19. sauromatae
20. saba

Since the slaves have the same infantry as the player depending on the area, didnt add them.

[Mediolanicus]

1. Romani (best line infantry; best overall)

2. Ptolemaioi (Galatians)

3. Carthage (Their elites and regionals are great)

4. Makedon
5. AS
6. Epeiros (those three have solid successor infantry)

7. Getai (falxes and sicas)

8. Luso's (falcata and gladii hispaniensis)

9. Sweboz (drop like flies, but kill everything)

10. KH (staying power)

11. Aedui
12. Arverni (few good elites, the other unit are good overall but lack killing power and staying power)

13. Baktria
14. Pontos (worse than the other successors)

15. Saba (surprisingly well for such light infantry)

16. Casse (their chariots always have to save the day)

17. Hayasdan
18. Pahlava
19. Saka (infantry is only archers or support)

20. Sauromatae (no infantry really...)

[Olaf The Great]

Casse have no line infantry but their infantry are on a 1v1 basis much stronger than the Gauls, even excluding the hidden units, plus the fact that routing a properly commanded Casse army is pretty much impossible, though for an actual effective army, they lack a lot of tools, especially decent cavalry and line infantry, though the Remi Marepos and Milnaht are nice. Roman units are extremely cost effective and come in large numbers, but they start out pretty weak and it takes forever to get proper legionaries, so I wouldn't count the Marian and Imperial units for this.

Don't forget the Saka get pretty badass hoplites pretty quickly, though not exactly versatile, the Pahlav get pretty nice units late into the game, but not especially strong, same with Hayasdan, Baktria has BADASS infantry, they get all the heavy units of the Seleucids(except the foot tanks, but you don't really need them) that just look awesome, but the Indian swordsman are a lot more powerful than they look.

The only difference between Aedui and Arverni that I know is that Aedui get the druids and the Arverni get Arjos hoplites(though with the Helveti do you really need them?). The Arjos are like really badass Massilians and Helvetii, but nothing interesting(though admittedly not that useful) like the Cingetos. Also it's pretty silly to but the Ptolemy's up in second because of the Galatians, they're pretty much the same as the Nietos

Carthage I would say is REALLY high up, around 2 or 3 because they get a similar roster to the Romans with the Elite Africans, but they also get Elite African pikemen, so I would say they tie(or are better?) with the Romans until the Imperial reform

Lustoanni get solid line infantry like KH but have Javelins too and extreme stamina and morale, the Ambakaro aren't too useful but the elite spearmen coupled with the Celiberians and the Devotio make a solid infantry core just like the Romans and the Carthaginians, and if you enable it they get the Dosidataskeli MAN TANKS...but that's only if you enable it.

If you wanted to compare entire rosters, including cavalry and missles, I would rate Baktria and Carthage at the very top. and at the bottom I would say Saba and Sauromatae, since the Sauro's feel like a gutted Saka and the Saba feel like a gutted Hayasdan in terms of units.

[seienchin]

Single or Multiplayer? Makes a huge difference... Also how about availability? In that case marian rome would win.
Anyway, Single Player:

1+2. Makedon an Epeiros
All the good successor units plus the thracian elites, beeing maybe except the phalangitai the best infantry in the game.
3+4 Seleucs an ptollis
Ptollis have the galatian swordmen which dominate early game, but after the seleuc reform they get the best armoured infantry in the game.
5. Baktria: Standart sucessor units and units with great line holding stability like the persian footsoldiers.
6.Pontos Mostly Weak infantry, but has elite phalangitai.
7. KH weak against phalangitai but really great against any other infantry. Bodyguards nearly never rout and they also have phalangitai.
8.Karthage some really great elite units, but the standart troops are really really crappy.
9.Rome: Marian troops would have place number 5, but although polybian principes and camillan triarii are some of the best troops, roman troops at that time are unable to held a line, when commanded by the AI. they rout way too fast.
10. Lusotan, all the units are affordable and great to hold the line until the enemy routs. Esspecially the light spearmen are unbelievable. My favorite unit.


I can only make a top ten. Every other nation is good, but not overwhelming. The saka have good hellenic units, the gauls have some good units, the germans are cheap and have EP, getai have good skirmishers etc.

[Cute Wolf]

1 KH: Somatophylakes Strategou, hoplitai, thorakitai, thureophoroi, and acess to long poking stick. Missile troops are mediocre, but widely available. Hoplite is extremely good and quite flexible actually, only a bit expensive, spear dominant means cav cant molest them easily, and Leonidas' boys will kick romaioi ass and castrate them with their high attack (wo "spear fix", and assume using BI shieldwall, without that 2, put em after romaioi barbaroi).
2 Aedui : Awesome nudists, comes in two versions, economic spear armed nudists to scare the Romaioi away with their big dicks, and insane, elephant killin baby killin romaioi killin Gaesatae who could kill anyone and nigh unkillable themselves. Aedui got better coz carnutes could turn line of levies into determined wall of men.
3 Arverni: arjos are crap compared with carnutes.
4 Romaioi Barbaroi : best average line infantry, didnt have fear effects, so they cant just charge and win, not to mention they are pretty vulnerable against cav, but they can spam reformata and win by mere sheer numbers.
5 Sweboz: expensive scary infantry, cheap clubmen who could brain anyone and melee capable skirmishers who very very cheap. In general, early units are pretty great, but suffers from crap and expensive late units.
6 Saka Rauka (WTH?!?) : calm down, hoplitai hellenikoi are pretty good and cheap, foot archers have long range and plentiful ammo, indian longbows kills like drapanai in melee, and persian archer spearmen are great spam units.
7 Epeiros: poking sticks and easy acess to thraikioi doryphoroi (great zerglings), had everythin makedon had, and had Thorakitai.
8 AS : TAB are awesome, poking sticks are awesome, panda poking sticks usin axe, galatians, archer spearmen spam, and some efficient jews.
9 Ptoly : did not have TAB but pretty balanced.
10 Baktrioi
11 Makedon
12 Getai (BAAANZZZAAAAAIIIIIIIIIII)
13 Sabyn : fight to the last man is expected
14 Lusotann
15 Kart Hadastim
16 Casse (meh)
everyone else is utter crap.

[antisocialmunky]

What do you mean by infantry? Like line infantry or just any dudes not on horses?

I'm too lazy to rank but I'll just say that Rome - Hellenic Factions have the infantry with the best staying power/price. Pantodapoi Phalangitai are some of the most cost effective troops in the game.

[Lazy O]

Dont forget Carthage, cheap line infatnry with extremely cost effective Iberian cavalry. Supporting arms make a difference. You cant just look at infantry.

Also; Makedon and Epirus have a big adantage, Agrianians, ive clubbed Prima Cohorts to death with these guys(at least is single player :D)

[Olaf The Great]

If this was general army composition, Carthage, Ptolemy, and Baktria would be at the top by far, they get pretty much every single unit type you'll ever need. The only thing Carthage and Ptolemy lack is super heavy cavalry, but they have 2 demi-cataphract units.

[Skullheadhq]

I can guess the playing style of these people then :wink:

Siegfriedr = Phalanx based, formed one long line with phalanx troops, he was prone to form a solid long line of soldiers, and wait for his enemies to attack first, then flank or encircle them to death.

Mediolanicus = Tactical team based, units operate in a bit scattered, but highly coordinated formations, using mobility and flexibility to the highest degree possible, favour numerous, strong line because he use light cavalry, or light support troops from behind to made his enemies rout in well timed actions.

Olaf the Great = Simple massed infantry with brutal collosal frontal attack, and sometimes hardcore defensive line supported by missile troops.

Seinechin = Phalanx based as important anvil, but tactical troops at the flank plays the real role of killin, may use some heavy cavalry with great effect.

Cute Wolf = Trollin and Spammin player, Aggresive killin line with a lot of scary elements to troll the enemy, aim for insta-rout when the line contacts. Prone for missile spammin as well to bleed the enemy white before contact, may use skirmishers and missile cavalry extensively to tire enemy line for teh best effect.

:clown:

[Cute Wolf]

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/thumb/7/79/Theyseemetrollin.png/420px-Theyseemetrollin.png

:clown:

ugh... Uirodusios spam for precise, and some scary troops as well, not to mention KH could gain easy acess for naked troops in Celtic Mikhra Asia

[Olaf The Great]

Olaf the Great = Simple massed infantry with brutal collosal frontal attack, and sometimes hardcore defensive line supported by missile troops.
I don't think I gave a lot of evidence, but this is how I end up playing most battles...the vast majority of battles. Gotta love those longswords, scary and command units, and "running the troops behind the enemy line" trick. Though I do couple this with heavy cavalry, like gettign 3 units of Remi-Marepos behind the enemy line when they're being chopped to pieces by Gaesatae and then ramming hard into their backs...and then chase the survivors off the field with leuce epos!

It's why I like playing as the Gauls and targeting Britain quickly, British twohanders coupled with Gaesatae,massed longswords and cavalry=Godlike


Though...I love the Eastern and Nomad battle music <3

[Jebivjetar]

Reminded me of:

'An army of sheep led by a lion will beat an army of lions led by a sheep'

In my experience, every AI army sucks by default in most cases. On the other hand, even Saba (the faction which is considered to have one of the worst army rooster in EB) is able to preform pretty well if leaded by a god general (proven on the last tournament: the guy who played Saba (EDIT: it was Mister Fred) achieved many victories even against the factions with superior armies (according to stats).

[Mediolanicus]

Mediolanicus = Tactical team based, units operate in a bit scattered, but highly coordinated formations, using mobility and flexibility to the highest degree possible, favour numerous, strong line because he use light cavalry, or light support troops from behind to made his enemies rout in well timed actions.



Right on!

Except for the "numerous". My armies are only 10-14 units.

[Morte66]

Well, it depends on what you mean by "best". There's a difference between ideal fights and real campaigns. In campaigns you care about the cost, the area of recruitment, and the timeliness of recruitment (can you build the MIC before you've moved your borders too far to use it). So for me any unit which comes from a level 5 MIC is irrelevant, and level 4 MICs are questionable, and anything that comes after 2 reforms probably comes when the campaign is already in the bag. It's the mid-level stuff available widely from day one that wins campaigns.

Unglamorous it might be, but I think the best campaign unit in the game is Pantadapoi Phalangitai (Hellenic levy pike phalanx). They're cheap. They're tough enough to pin anything for a good while, which is their actual job -- a tougher phalanx is usually overspecified i.e. wasted money. Their armour piercing axes make them surprisingly good flankers. They'll grind down main street, which is vital in Siege Total War. And they have a huge area of recruitment, available to a great array of factions, even factions one doesn't associate with pikes. E.g. Saba can recruit them from Bactria to NW Africa.

So when you look at it that way, including recruitment/upkeep and regional as well as factional units, the answers are completely different.

[BTW, I made it a rule long ago to never recruit Pantadapoi Phalangitai except from factional MICs. Otherwise too many factions end up playing the same. And I do like to vary my tactics to suit the faction.]

[Olaf The Great]

Reminded me of:


In my experience, every AI army sucks by default in most cases. On the other hand, even Saba (the faction which is considered to have one of the worst army rooster in EB) is able to preform pretty well if leaded by a god general (proven on the last tournament: the guy who played Saba (EDIT: it was Mister Fred) achieved many victories even against the factions with superior armies (according to stats).Don't forget Saba's heaviest infantry have very good stamina and excellent morale, though it's true, they lack true elites and heavy cavalry. but that's the challenge with playing them.

[Cute Wolf]

Reminded me of:


In my experience, every AI army sucks by default in most cases. On the other hand, even Saba (the faction which is considered to have one of the worst army rooster in EB) is able to preform pretty well if leaded by a god general (proven on the last tournament: the guy who played Saba (EDIT: it was Mister Fred) achieved many victories even against the factions with superior armies (according to stats).

Stat wise, Saby'n guys had one chief advantage, even the lowliest of them will fought to the death... almost....
just tweak your unit tactics towards more "suicide attacks" and you would be fine... :clown:

[Lazy O]

I agree;Misterfred used Saba to perfection in the tournament

[seienchin]

Yeah most armies rely on the player, but there is no denying that phalangitai units are the king in EB. Even the Levy ones can take out KH bodyguards without losses, if you position them right. Also hellenic factions can recruit the cretan Archers.
In Multiplayer there might be a way to kill phalangitai, in singleplayer for the AI there is non and your most difficult battles will be against armies with a lot of phalangitai.
Thats why I listed all the phalanx using armies at the top. I mean they cant really be hurt by anything from the front and elite phalangitai can beat roman marian cohorts without phalanx or guard mode. They are badass.


Seinechin = Phalanx based as important anvil, but tactical troops at the flank plays the real role of killin, may use some heavy cavalry with great effect.

Well in my campain games I am not a friend of heavy cavallery. I love medium and light lancers.^^ And I always Roleplay. I play Epeiros at the moment and I use phyrrus like tactic with massing the phalanx on one side and my other troops on anotther.
Anyway, I have a love hat relationship with phalangitai. Although I was able to rout even elite ones with numidian cavallery, an enemy 10star general with phalangitai is always nasty. Esspecially, when you are playing as makedonia and you never get a decent general. (I hadnt one in 200years of campaining and now as Epeiros I have 4 in the first 20 years...WTF? It reminds me of MWII, when every single byzanthinian general of mine was gay^^)

[Lazy O]

Skirmishers do phalngites up side down

[Burebista]

Skirmishers do phalngites up side down

Yeah , like 30 % of them before they become useless. U try using that in MP.


Reminded me of:


In my experience, every AI army sucks by default in most cases. On the other hand, even Saba (the faction which is considered to have one of the worst army rooster in EB) is able to preform pretty well if leaded by a god general (proven on the last tournament: the guy who played Saba (EDIT: it was Mister Fred) achieved many victories even against the factions with superior armies (according to stats).

Mr Fred won most of those using Ellies and surprising enemies with very different Comps. And another secret was the ethiopian cavalry which moves very fast and was impossbile to pin down except with archery. More merit to the player , but don't make it sound like Saba has good infantry becouse they dont.

[WinsingtonIII]

More merit to the player , but don't make it sound like Saba has good infantry becouse they dont.

To be fair, their infantry generally does have surprisingly high morale, good stamina, and it is mobile/fast. They have pretty much no armor, so they die quickly, and they lack armor-piercing/high lethality weapons, so in a traditional fight, their infantry is quite bad. But don't underestimate their abilities, because they do have strengths, and if you play to those strengths they suddenly don't seem so horrible.

[Arjos]

Historically speaking, the Celts had the strongest infantry in the classical era for skills and ethos: every "civilized nation" hired and praised them...
The hellenistic phalanx is formidable with the cavalry's help.
The hoplite phalanx against a non-hoplite infantry could've won any battle if its flanks were safe...

[seienchin]

Historically speaking, the Celts had the strongest infantry in the classical era for skills and ethos: every "civilized nation" hired and praised them...
The hellenistic phalanx is formidable with the cavalry's help.
The hoplite phalanx against a non-hoplite infantry could've won any battle if its flanks were safe...
Yeah of course... Thats why the romans won most of their battles against celts even when lesser in number... Also the hoplite phalanx would certainly have been no match for the romans. Too few, the shields, which were a hoplites strenght, would have been renderend useless by the pilum.
Still interesting that so many in the EB forum think, that the people how had no chance against rome, where stronger than them.

[Arjos]

Yeah of course... Thats why the romans won most of their battles against celts even when lesser in number... Also the hoplite phalanx would certainly have been no match for the romans. Too few, the shields, which were a hoplites strenght, would have been renderend useless by the pilum.
Still interesting that so many in the EB forum think, that the people how had no chance against rome, where stronger than them.

AFAIK Rome adopted celtic tacticts and equipment...
I was answering to the thread keeping in mind all the ancient historians who wrote that the celtic warrior was the best in the world...

Rome prevailed because in its age was the only state with the combination: professional army, growing economy and relative internal stability (during the republic)...

And also all this concept of winning against greater numbers is just wrong. As if rabble could conquer the world...

[moonburn]

And also all this concept of winning against greater numbers is just wrong. As if rabble could conquer the world...
already did it´s called democracy

[Arjos]

already did it´s called democracy

Ahahahahahah
Great answer!
But let's say that gunpowder helped it XD

[Olaf The Great]

Yeah most armies rely on the player, but there is no denying that phalangitai units are the king in EB. Even the Levy ones can take out KH bodyguards without losses, if you position them right. Also hellenic factions can recruit the cretan Archers. Well that's the thing, almost everyone can recruit the levy phalanxes, so do you really need any more infantry?

Pahlav SUPERCATS+Heavy archers+Levy Phalanx=win

[Atraphoenix]

Pahlav SUPERCATS+Heavy arches+Levy Phalan=win

Exactly :*)

Also hyrcanians are not bad pinning enemy infantry.

[Jebivjetar]

Yeah , like 30 % of them before they become useless. U try using that in MP.



Mr Fred won most of those using Ellies and surprising enemies with very different Comps. And another secret was the ethiopian cavalry which moves very fast and was impossbile to pin down except with archery. More merit to the player , but don't make it sound like Saba has good infantry becouse they dont.

Well, the guy knew what he wanted and how to get it. And that's my only point: it's not so much about elites or non-elites, but who uses them: in right hands levies can perform very well; if general is no good, even elites can act like cripples.

[Burebista]

Well, the guy knew what he wanted and how to get it. And that's my only point: it's not so much about elites or non-elites, but who uses them: in right hands levies can perform very well; if general is no good, even elites can act like cripples.

1.Ellies =lottery . the time Mrfred used ellies against me , he went against 6 units of Indohelennic peltastai= gg
2.saba are arrow cushions. Against steppe=gg . I had a game like that against MrFred as Baktria (which isn't that good as steppe army), and it felt like cheating
3.At 24 k , saba rulezzzzzzz. All of a sudden , from a measly faction , it becomes godly.
4.To get back to the point , Saba doesn't have good infantry. All it has is some decent lane holders , which leaves them with only 2 tacs available : ellie surprise or a light Anvil and hammer tac (chev medium spearmen+ethiopian cav) , at which they can't rly be successfull against greeks or romans. here is all about the guard mode button .

[seienchin]

Well levies can perform good because they are cheap and they do have great stamina and you can practicly cheat with them. Just have them run away from an heavy cavallery charge and they absorb it.^^
Stil, as long as its not the A.I. commanding elite phalangitai are always better than leviy troops. Also marian cohorts and so on. Elite units in EB are really elite and unlike Vanillan they cant be routed easily with light cavallery charges from the side or heavy arrow fire.

@Olaf
Yes indeed... I think every lancing cavallery plus Levy phalangitai and cretan archers can beat any enemy, of course unless it doesnt consist of the same type of units.

[Olaf The Great]

Well levies can perform good because they are cheap and they do have great stamina and you can practicly cheat with them. Just have them run away from an heavy cavallery charge and they absorb it.^^
Stil, as long as its not the A.I. commanding elite phalangitai are always better than leviy troops. Also marian cohorts and so on. Elite units in EB are really elite and unlike Vanillan they cant be routed easily with light cavallery charges from the side or heavy arrow fire.

@Olaf
Yes indeed... I think every lancing cavallery plus Levy phalangitai and cretan archers can beat any enemy, of course unless it doesnt consist of the same type of units.The only time Hammer and anvil tactics don't work if your cavalry are in melee with theirs long enough for your line to rout, that's why elite phalanxes are there, but if your cavalry are superior to all and their phalanxes aren't super elite, you can win easily.

[Moros]

Archer-spearmen!
:hide:

[Basileus_ton_Basileon]

Archer-spearmen!
:hide:

Celtic ones? :clown:

[antisocialmunky]

I hate them with a passion...

[seienchin]

Celtic ones? :clown:

hehehe. The worst single unit in the game^^. Anyway I never got what people liked about archer spearmen. They arent that good in melee after all and not as good as other archers and have little to no armour and shields.

[Basileus_ton_Basileon]

well they (eastern ones) can shoot decently and take a charge while actually hurting them back, even in a melee. They may even win the melee, if in swarms.

[Burebista]

hehehe. The worst single unit in the game^^. Anyway I never got what people liked about archer spearmen. They arent that good in melee after all and not as good as other archers and have little to no armour and shields.

Sotaroas are probably the cheapest unit out there but you get much more than ur paying for. They cost 392 Mnai...that is cheaper than anything and they have a spear with lethality of 1.13(Toxodai have 0.04). Compare that to other spear-archer : arabian 842 , nizagan 618....
They are THE best cannon fodder available as they can harrass a little and also cause problems to light cavalry or even flank when given the possibility. Just don't tell them that when u're hiring them:))


The only time Hammer and anvil tactics don't work if your cavalry are in melee with theirs long enough for your line to rout, that's why elite phalanxes are there, but if your cavalry are superior to all and their phalanxes aren't super elite, you can win easily.

Not true. Steppe tactics can destroy a phalanx. Also a high mass flanking maneuver or a ellie surprise. you haven't seen anything in this game if you haven't seen the Ellie & gaesatae & chariot vs phalanx battle line domino...so fun..especially against those "godly" Pantodapoi phalangitai with only 8 morale:)))))))

[Rahwana]

Roman cohorts are good at the hands of capable commanders (and players), but when used by a noob, they become little more than sitting ducks with pilum, lack of spears will leave them very vulnerable against cavalry charges, especially EB's AP cavalry lance

[Mediolanicus]

Roman cohorts are good at the hands of capable commanders (and players), but when used by a noob, they become little more than sitting ducks with pilum, lack of spears will leave them very vulnerable against cavalry charges, especially EB's AP cavalry lance

I don't know that. The Romans are one of the only factions with which I can win battles where I'm outnumbered without the hammer and anvil tactic.

[antisocialmunky]

Well considering the Romans are the ones without number usually...

[jirisys]

I just started a campaign as Averni, can't say i'm unhappy, but i only garrison Lugoae, Gaeroas and Celtic slingers

So i don't know much about their units so

in my personal list:

1. Saka
2. KH
3. Averni
4. SPQR (pre marian)

~Jirisys (ROUTER OK NOW!:grin:)

[Burebista]

My list
1.Carthage
2.Rome(prefer polybian)
3.Lusotannan
4.Koinon H.(mostly due to the AOR)
5-10.Diadochoi
11.Getai
12.Sweboz
13-16.Gaulish factions
17 Saba
18-21 nomadic factions

[Cute Wolf]

I don't know that. The Romans are one of the only factions with which I can win battles where I'm outnumbered without the hammer and anvil tactic.

Sonic refers to his pastime, when somebody's cataphract slamming his legionaries to the pulp... at least that won't happened with Hoplitai...

[seienchin]

Again one more point for phalangitai, they are kind of hard to charge with cavallery. Allthough cataphracts can break their formation I wouldnt recommend it.

[Arjos]

Does anyone know what kind of force can, a packed formation of foot, withstand?

[jirisys]

Hoplites

~Jirisys (Phalangites can't defend, only attack; as the test results Vartan put in say)

[Cambyses]

I agree with Burebista. Except I would drop the Romans to 4th as for me they do lack a bit of variety. You could say the same for the Lusos I guess, but the balance of spears to swords and heavy to light works better IMO.

Also, I assume the fourth "Gaulish" faction is a typo?

[vartan]

everyone else is utter crap.
That's so sad. Shame on you.

Does anyone know what kind of force can, a packed formation of foot, withstand?
The Macedonian Phalanx was once said to be a type of force that "steam-rolled" its enemies. As for the classical Greek hoplite phalanx, of which I am no expert, I would suppose one would be safe in presuming at least some power in a defensive fashion. In that regard, as Jirisys mentioned, the game does do justice. It is easier for me to do kill-tests as opposed to tests on defensive power, but I simply haven't done the hoplite defence test yet (nor has anybody submitted it to the EB: A Look Into the Past project). Check the Mak Phalanx Tests (http://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B8pgdrJqBnJBMTY1NTcxMTUtMWYwZC00MzA3LThhYWUtZjUzNWY1ODM3ZjY5&hl=en) document for more info.

[Cute Wolf]

All that left from my list is sauromatae, hayasdan, and pahlava. Tell me which of those factions that didn't had utter crap infantry force? Almost all infantry they got are more or less assorted meatshields. Hayasdan elites? Oh, those are good but pretty expensive for their performance. Their cavalry force are extremely strong though.

[Olaf The Great]

Hayasdan gets Georgian and Armenian infantry, along with Persian hoplites(that have longswords?) and the infamous Eastern Axemen. Those units aren't very high quality, but they're not complete crap either
Babylonian Spearmen and the levy pikes are also pretty nice to have.

[athanaric]

Hayasdan gets Georgian and Armenian infantry, along with Persian hoplites(that have longswords?) and the infamous Eastern Axemen. Those units aren't very high quality, but they're not complete crap either
Babylonian Spearmen and the levy pikes are also pretty nice to have.Georgian and Armenian swordsmen suffer from low lethality (I really hope to see the Georgian guys being equipped with axes in EBII, BTW). They're still decent though. Persian Hoplites have medium lethality (0.13) swords. Eastern Axemen are extremely versatile and are excellent in combination with Persian Hoplites.

Hayasdan has good infantry and one very good elite infantry unit. They generally suffer from "overpricing" though.
Pahlava has very useful infantry, but no elite among them.
Babylonians are neat (spear+mace=win) but they tire and break too easily compared to Hoplites.

IMO we should split factions into several categories:

- Factions with an excellent array of elites, but generally either mediocre or tactically inflexible line troops. These would be Celts and successor factions.

- Factions with few or no infantry elites but reliable, powerful, and/or flexible line troops. These would be Rome (prime example), Koinon Hellenon, Lusotannan, Suebi, Saka, Saba, and to a lesser extent Hayasdan and Pahlava.

- In-betweeners, essentially combining the best of the two categories above. Carthage, Getai, and Baktria. Although Carthage could be counted into the first category.

- Sauromatae. They only have two factional infantry units. Good access to Dacian, Germanic, Skythian, and Hellenistic infantry auxiliaries though.

[seienchin]

I hated the sauromatae campain. They have nothing to offer. Their units even look less cool than any other faction and they have no way of advancing their units like the pahvla or saka after after their reforms.
And they dont have a single strong infantry unit.

PS: Or can they recruit phlangitai? If so I take it back^^

[athanaric]

I hated the sauromatae campain. They have nothing to offer. Their units even look less cool than any other faction and they have no way of advancing their units like the pahvla or saka after after their reforms.
And they dont have a single strong infantry unit.
Mm, tastes differ. I like the unassuming looks of their units, especially the Roxolani Riders and Nobles as well as the Aorsi Nobles (great for archery duels).



PS: Or can they recruit phlangitai?No.

[vartan]

I really hope to see the Georgian guys being equipped with axes in EBII
How does that work, since Georgians are known to this day for their swordfighting?

[Cute Wolf]

How does that work, since Georgians are known to this day for their swordfighting?

let them use longswords instead of shortsword one then...
and lower their training price!!!

[vartan]

let them use longswords instead of shortsword one then...
and lower their training price!!!
Why would you do that? I thought EB was meant to adhere to history. Georgians 'play' with shortswords, at least I would call them short, compared to those huge monstrosities unearthed from ancient Gaul.

[athanaric]

How does that work, since Georgians are known to this day for their swordfighting?

'Cuz somebody with historical knowledge suggested axes in a discussion some time ago. Can't say for sure who it was though.

[vartan]

historical knowledge
That phrase is only second to 'historically accurate' in terms of usage on these forums. Can't say for sure, though (:

I thought Eastern Axemen covered a general, broad area. I'm sure there are some Georgians among them, haha.

[Cute Wolf]

Georgian Axemen? reminds me of Broken Crescent :wink: :wink: