View Full Version : Poll: scale the difficulty of each campaign
siegfriedfr
08-21-2010, 09:54
Hello,
Please rate the campaigns by order of difficulty and give your opinion on what could be done to make it more friendly to the average player.
From hardest to easiest:
1. Hayasdan
> possible fix: adding basic mines building in all caucasus city and upping population, making core relationship with seleucid "allies"
2. Saba
> adding basic mines building in meroe, tamane and carna, a fleetport in homna, making core relationships with seleucid/ptole "ally"
3. Saka
> not much to do, rush or die
4. Pahlava
> Adding mines in cities bordering the caspian sea, making the reformed parthian gov a lvl 1 native MIC
5. Sauromatae
> just like saka, not much to do
All the factions listed after that don't suffer any severe problem and would not require a tweak.
6. Pontus
7. Getai
8. Casse
9. Sweboz
10. Arverni
11. Aedui
12. Baktria
The easy factions:
13. Seleucid
14. Lusotanian
15. Greeks
16. Epirus
17. Macedon
18. Ptolemaioi
19. Carthage
20. Romani
Cambyses
08-21-2010, 10:13
Having "hard" factions is entirely a good thing IMO. That way it allows a player to progress through the game and encourages replayability.
Having said that I didnt find either Saba or Sauromatae to be particularly difficult. Saba you get all the time in the world to subdue arabia, and finances are pretty strong. The hard part is that beating the ptolies on the battlefield requires different tactics to most factions as they have no "obvious" way to kill phalanxes. Also they do tend to suffer high casualties so invading far from your homeland without access to reinforcements isnt straightforward. But overall you have a secure and easily defendable position, its just expansion thats tricky.
With the sauros, the money part is tough, but using horse archers and one FM its easy as hell to win almost every battle with extremely low casualties. Taking on the other nomads is a little tougher though.
I suspect many people might put Pontus in the tough category also. But certainly no-one needs a "fix" IMO.
To me every faction gives you a different experience.
What ruins the game is the tendency of the AI to attack the player regardless the diplomatic relations. But I believe that the M2TW system will "fix" that.
In RTW what's missing is the genuine alliance...
siegfriedfr
08-21-2010, 10:41
Having "hard" factions is entirely a good thing IMO. That way it allows a player to progress through the game and encourages replayability.
Having said that I didnt find either Saba or Sauromatae to be particularly difficult. Saba you get all the time in the world to subdue arabia, and finances are pretty strong. The hard part is that beating the ptolies on the battlefield requires different tactics to most factions as they have no "obvious" way to kill phalanxes. Also they do tend to suffer high casualties so invading far from your homeland without access to reinforcements isnt straightforward. But overall you have a secure and easily defendable position, its just expansion thats tricky.
With the sauros, the money part is tough, but using horse archers and one FM its easy as hell to win almost every battle with extremely low casualties. Taking on the other nomads is a little tougher though.
I suspect many people might put Pontus in the tough category also. But certainly no-one needs a "fix" IMO.
Sure hard campaigns are good, and pontus is hard. But possible, because you can funnel the AI into specific cities and hold them here.
Arguably, you can theorically conquer the world with HA factions with zero casualties, and players have done that (or, they claim they have without cheating anyway). Altho my experience is that a quickly stretched front without a developped military chain eventually leads to not enough horse archers remaining and cities depleting of their pop.
But hayasdan... how can you realistically complete this campaign with low population cities, no mines, and the seleucid attacking you on 3 fronts, and pontus joigning the party as soon as they can?
Saba... i've been trying several strategic campaign (not taking carna to avoid early wars, rushing for ptolemais theron/elephants) and eventually saba doenst make enough money to counter the stack spam from memphis/alexandria. Sure, you can beat a few half assed stacks of ptollies with elite units (but it's goddan hard), but you cannot beat the spam.
And as Arjos says, if the AI didn't permanently break alliances to ruin the player life, no campaign would be difficult anyway.
hell, in one of my pahlava attemps, the seleucid was litterally emptying the west and bringing all their stacks to me at some point (i was up to persepolis and sacked susa/ekbatana) - wasn't making enough money to rebuild so had to quit.
Also with M2TW the whole "control the town square for 3 minutes" is out, along with the control of the gateway. This would make the RTW's hard campaings into really impossible ones, if it wasn't for the new diplomacy...
Cambyses
08-21-2010, 11:23
Also with M2TW the whole "control the town square for 3 minutes" is out, along with the control of the gateway. This would make the RTW's hard campaings into really impossible ones, if it wasn't for the new diplomacy...
eh? You control the town centre in M2 as well, just the same as in R. But now u can also do it when the enemy still has some guys left alive in the square, so that you dont need to kill every last warrior. Provided that you have a huge numerical advantage. AFAIK some other mods have fiddled with this feature a bit, but its definitely still there.
Controlling gates (and towers) is also much improved in M2 IMO. Im afraid I dont see how this will make the campaign harder at all. If anything the free upkeep units and multiple recruitment/turn will make things quite a bit simpler (in defence at least).
Uhm... Maybe someone had it modded out (I don't play vanilla XD)
About the gateway, I meant that even if you take control of it, the defender can still enter, and you can't enter it at leat you destroy the gate...
Olaf The Great
08-21-2010, 12:45
Hayasdan is possible to win wtihout cheating, but it's not very fun at all without force diplomacy
umm... I've played hayasdan before, no rush, no cheat (unless toggle_fow), and I got entire asia minor in 223 BC. That's was on VH/M, just remember you have caucasian archers!!!
have caucasian archers!!!
Exactly, but a whole army of "Sun Shaders" isn't enjoyable nor accurate XD
NoHelmet
08-21-2010, 13:14
hell, in one of my pahlava attemps, the seleucid was litterally emptying the west and bringing all their stacks to me at some point (i was up to persepolis and sacked susa/ekbatana) - wasn't making enough money to rebuild so had to quit.[/QUOTE]
In persepolis, destroy the tomb, it will get you 10000, and try this: go ahead with all your horse archers you can quickly get, attack, spend all your arrows, then retreat if you are in a serious situation. I currently play with pahlava on VH/M, AS isn't posing that much of a threat. Now, i am a rusher, but picking lone squads and raiding pretty much does the job. I only once lost a city, and took it back the next turn. it is winter 268bc, and i am at susa, and The Gray Death is on the way to it's own death. Baktria is still far from hostilities, and Sakas are too busy dealing with two AS provinces i left as a buffer to them. Now, with AS sufficiently weakened, i turn to baktria and it's mines. Pahlava is on a steady way of becoming my favorite faction... And for hayasdan, i think it is hardest. I played it once, but i really was pretty bad back then. I should try it again. Pontos isn't that hard, Nomads in generall are the hard ones, because you have to preserve your armies (or army, with sakae i gather one army and roll). Any faction that gives you a lot of infantry and places you far from nomads, is generally easy. And yes, breaking alliances is what keeps the campaign alive, i agree.
Mulceber
08-21-2010, 13:48
I think to a certain extent people tend to underestimate the difficulty of the Romani campaign. They have a good starting position, stable economy and good troops, but as the Romani you have to conquer a LOT of land, which makes for a grueling campaign. Plus, once you run into the Yellow Fever or Silver Death, reinforcing provinces becomes very difficult when they're half-way across the map. I wouldn't say the Romani are as hard as Pontos, Pahlava or Hayasdan, but I just thought I'd put in a good word for them. -M
Maybe it is if you want to end it as fast as possible.
The roman campaign is the second one I played till 14 AD (fulfilling the victory conditions) and I had to face the yellow death, it happened that I had to fight something like 3-4 major battles in a sigle turn for three times, but it wasn't anything special. I was facing also several Agema phalanxes...
But as I said I don't feel like there are hard ones and easy ones, everyone is unique...
Mulceber
08-21-2010, 16:37
Actually, trying to end it as quickly as possible would make it easier - hence why blitzing is frowned upon by some. I've played the Romani twice. My first game lasted until 30 BCE and my second game lasted until around 110 BCE. I'm just trying to point out that the Romani present their own unique set of challenges, which I think is pretty similar to your point. -M
Absolutely...
By quickly being more difficult, I intended using the polybian troops instead of marian, 'cos of the smaller AoR ^^
athanaric
08-21-2010, 21:25
1. Pontos - starting army is big, but severely lacks assault troops ( -> hire a unit of Enoci Curoas, you really won't regret it). Also a very vulnerable position.
2. Hayasdan - pretty similar, with a weaker army but more versatile units.
3. Sauromatae - highly useful army, but no money. Also the weakest economy in the game and bugged campaign.
Unlike some other mods and games, all faction campaigns in EB are entirely possible to win. Once you got behind EB gameplay, even the hardest factions aren't too difficult.
With Lusotannan, Swêboz, Saka, and Sauromatae you have to blitz like mad unless you want to disband the starting army.
Can't tell which is the hardest. I've made a succesfull campaigns with Hayasdan (where I remade the persian empire), conquered egypt and India with Saba and conquered Italy with the Sauromatae. The hardest campaign I had was an Arverni game actually, my first 1.x campaign. But that was because of roleplaying rather than the campaign.
Atraphoenix
08-22-2010, 09:43
Saka & Pahlava I tweaked and modded lots of things but for them there is no second option than offence is best defence.
If you have not much experience on cavalry warfare with horse archers which needs time consuming micromanaged battles, do not try them :laugh4:
I hate blitzing but my eternal enemy AS does not give up sending full stacks against me until I destroy her.
For me it is very easy to play with them because "I know myself and my enemy very well" and "I never attack strong points of my enemy while their weaknesses is waiting for me." :book:
Hayastan is a hard faction? Maybe on VH/VH, but on H/M is pretty easy even without rushing. The same for Saka and Sauromatae.
NB: I'm playing my own minimod where all the spearmen have -4 attack. But I think it doesn't make any difference in this case
seienchin
08-22-2010, 11:02
Hayastan is a hard faction? Maybe on VH/VH, but on H/M is pretty easy even without rushing. The same for Saka and Sauromatae.
NB: I'm playing my own minimod where all the spearmen have -4 attack. But I think it doesn't make any difference in this case
What?:inquisitive::inquisitive::inquisitive:
If you dont rush wih Saka you must wait like 40 turns to make money, even more with sauromatae and hayasdan is hell if the seleucs decide to atack you.
It isnt impossible (I have never seen the pc beat me^^), but it is tedious as hell fighting stakc after stack.
Anyway I hate playing all the rush or die factions, because one of the funny parts of EB is building your cities to economical greatness, which is nearly impossible the first 100turns with these factions.
The only exception beeing the lusotans, which are easy to manage after you conquer one or two settlements.
Anyway if this were Vanilla you would give you a*** handed to you if you had like 10 levy units and you were atacked by a fullstack of elite infantry and cavallery.:book:
Ebs high defense and moral system makes for intense battles, but I think its broken, when it comes to horse archers. They werent the dominant force in EBs Timeframe, but in EB they are the strongest units.
siegfriedfr
08-22-2010, 11:24
Hayastan is a hard faction? Maybe on VH/VH, but on H/M is pretty easy even without rushing. The same for Saka and Sauromatae.
NB: I'm playing my own minimod where all the spearmen have -4 attack. But I think it doesn't make any difference in this case
So what's your strategy with hayasdan? How do you cope with AS relentless attacks?
Honestly, I played two campaing (not finished as i got bored) with Saka and Sauromate (as a rider myself, I've a weakness for cav. based armies!!!) and I don't get why people say it's so diffivult. with saka. the first few turns are tricky, but when you get out of the red in your finances, the game's over! (meaning, you literally can kick the ass of anybody! I mean, their bodyguard, like sauromates, are literally german tiger tanks that came down from world WWII (3 FM alone can stand their own against "almost" anything). the only real danger when playing one of those two are the other (Sauro when you play Saka and vice versa). I played both on hard and well... with sauromates, go west and you can eat getai and hellenes for breakfest, go south with Saka!
In any cases, they're not the hardest faction I played! (well, it's only a personal experiance, I'm not saying they're "easy" factions, far from that, new commers would probably be discouraged if they tried Saka first!)
So what's your strategy with hayasdan? How do you cope with AS relentless attacks?
You mean, Ptolemies? ;) Together with Pahlava they smashed AS to splinters and I even had to save them conquering in one campaign with my faction heir whole Mesopotamia and then giving it to Seleucids back.
Now I'm holding against Ptolemaioi. It's not very hard if you have Karkathiokerta. It's a perfect city for sallying because it's located on the hill and two of its walls are situated just over the steep slopes (and enemies always attack from these two directions). I keep strong garrison here with 4 units Eastern slingers and 4 HAs (Armenian and Scythian), some infantry and FM. I've had at least half dozen heroic victories here and attackers just have no chance. Call it cheating if you like ;)
What?:inquisitive::inquisitive::inquisitive:
If you dont rush wih Saka you must wait like 40 turns to make money, even more with sauromatae and hayasdan is hell if the seleucs decide to atack you.
It isnt impossible (I have never seen the pc beat me^^), but it is tedious as hell fighting stakc after stack.
Of course I conquer 5-6 provinces for Saka in first turns (for Armenia you need to to have no more then 3 to have a strong and stable economy). But then you can sit back and build up or raid your enemies' cities with army of HAs :)
Olaf The Great
08-23-2010, 04:19
I really cannot wait for EB2, The AI in M2 seems to be less hellbent on destroying the player.
The Hai game is meant to be hard. In history they failed. Admittedly they lasted for a while but still went in the end. Thats what I like so much about this mod, if I want to change history I have a big uphill battle to fight. Especially considering I am too lazy to be very 'gamey' (or strategic) with my tactics. I tend to make a big line of dudes and charge the enemy and hope that enough of my guys come out the other side still alive. Tends to work most times, at least I am a good player on the macro campaign, I just suck at micro control.
Man, I am gonna go play a game of them now. Thanks for the inspiration guys.
But hayasdan... how can you realistically complete this campaign with low population cities, no mines, and the seleucid attacking you on 3 fronts, and pontus joigning the party as soon as they can?
Been there, done that.
Hayasdan is possible to win wtihout cheating, but it's not very fun at all without force diplomacy
I find it to be one of the most fun campaigns, and I don't even use FD (I find FD boring).
Exactly, but a whole army of "Sun Shaders" isn't enjoyable nor accurate XD
It's accurate enough if you're referring to the Hye, and it certainly isn't enjoyable watching people die unless you're a sadist. Indeed.
So what's your strategy with hayasdan? How do you cope with AS relentless attacks?
You don't cope with the Seleukid attacks, you counter-attack. Cope implies a defensive posture. The turtle's shell will eventually crack. Come out of the shell and blow with your hammer where it hurts the most. Cut through, slicing the Seleukid empire in two. Break their lines.
siegfriedfr
08-23-2010, 20:47
Been there, done that.
I find it to be one of the most fun campaigns, and I don't even use FD (I find FD boring).
It's accurate enough if you're referring to the Hye, and it certainly isn't enjoyable watching people die unless you're a sadist. Indeed.
You don't cope with the Seleukid attacks, you counter-attack. Cope implies a defensive posture. The turtle's shell will eventually crack. Come out of the shell and blow with your hammer where it hurts the most. Cut through, slicing the Seleukid empire in two. Break their lines.
Just like every dood who claim completion of the hardest campaigns, you prefer to brag ("i've done it"), than actually explain what are your army composition, which settlement you go for first, did you develop before attacking, did the ptolemaioi keep the seleucid busy whiile you were being superman, how far you went before quitting, or provide a screenshot.
Please enlighten us.
Just like every dood who claim completion of the hardest campaigns, you prefer to brag ("i've done it"), than actually explain how you did, and how far you went, or provide a screenshot.
Zero credibility.
He actually did it...:mean: show respect!
Brave Brave Sir Robin
08-23-2010, 21:02
Well here is my Hai campaign, H/M no cheats, no modifications.
https://a.imageshack.us/img827/8392/haiempire.png
I fought my way to Persepolis with my faction leader who wanted to see it before he died. He ended up making the trek back to Armavir with his army intact and he's still hanging out there. He has great command skills, but is totally inept at running the capital. I would put him in the field but I wanted to retire him. Another family member recently captured Trebizond giving him the Arkhan Arkah trait as well.
At war with AS and Ptolies. I lucked out and Sauros never attacked me in this campaign. They are even more difficult to deal with than AS when playing as Hai. Basically I started off conquering the Caucasus regions, then invaded Karkiotherta. Held it while my main army sacked Seleucia giving me enough funds to build mines which, when completed financed a good enough army to move east taking Ecbatana, Susa, Gabai, and Persepolis. With these towns I could afford a small second army which headed south and took Seleucia and Arbela. I bought Babylon from the AS during a brief ceasefire, Charax rebelled from them and I grabbed it. They attacked me again and so I conquered Gerrha even though I don't really want it but they had a full army in it and a full merc army wandering the desert around town so I didn't want them in my rear. Now Ptolies attacked me and Pontus. I'm doing well, Pontus is not. I should be able to counterattack Ptolies soon and maybe gift Pontus some territory so I can consolidate my nice little Persia-Hai Empire.
NoHelmet
08-23-2010, 21:19
Well here is my Hai campaign, H/M no cheats, no modifications.
https://a.imageshack.us/img827/8392/haiempire.png
I fought my way to Persepolis with my faction leader who wanted to see it before he died. He ended up making the trek back to Armavir with his army intact and he's still hanging out there. He has great command skills, but is totally inept at running the capital. I would put him in the field but I wanted to retire him. Another family member recently captured Trebizond giving him the Arkhan Arkah trait as well.
At war with AS and Ptolies. I lucked out and Sauros never attacked me in this campaign. They are even more difficult to deal with than AS when playing as Hai. Basically I started off conquering the Caucasus regions, then invaded Karkiotherta. Held it while my main army sacked Seleucia giving me enough funds to build mines which, when completed financed a good enough army to move east taking Ecbatana, Susa, Gabai, and Persepolis. With these towns I could afford a small second army which headed south and took Seleucia and Arbela. I bought Babylon from the AS during a brief ceasefire, Charax rebelled from them and I grabbed it. They attacked me again and so I conquered Gerrha even though I don't really want it but they had a full army in it and a full merc army wandering the desert around town so I didn't want them in my rear. Now Ptolies attacked me and Pontus. I'm doing well, Pontus is not. I should be able to counterattack Ptolies soon and maybe gift Pontus some territory so I can consolidate my nice little Persia-Hai Empire.
Nice... I havent tried a long campaign with Hais, but i guess you cannot tackle Sauros without cataphract archers, Zrahakir Netadzik or something like that, since i played with Pahlava against Sakas, and fought fire with bigger, stronger and far more armoured fire.
Just like every dude who claims completion of the hardest campaigns, you prefer to brag ("I've done it"), than actually explain what are your army compositions, which settlement you go for first, did you develop before attacking, did the Ptolemaioi keep the Seleucids busy while you were being superman, how far you went before quitting, or provide a screenshot.
Please enlighten us.
Nice to meet you, too. :laugh4: I know it's really tiring to use the search feature, especially since it doesn't work half the time, so let me make this convenient. I remember in the past there were far more Hye campaign guides than there are now (yes, Hye; who came up with "Hai" anyway? was a Japanese guy working on the faction?). I don't see many around nowadays, but not to worry.
The way I go about things is different than how some others might. As you can see in this thread, another Hai player has chosen to go about replicating, more or less, the shape of the country of modern Iran. I'm still trying to find the Persian cat resemblance, but oh well, maybe another day. I personally find that a very plausible approach, but as usually is the case, there are always options for the player. I also cut through the Arche Seleukeia by going through Karkathiokerta (Arshamshat), Arbela, Susa (Shushan) and Babylonia (Babelon). By sacking each of these towns (I would occupy Karkathiokerta), you make bank whilst splitting the AS in half, destroying its trade routes and military lines of support. The example in this thread shows a progression towards the east. I myself move toward the west, occupying the region west of the Jordan, at least to Antioch, since you need to make that the stronghold standing between you and the Ptolemaic empire. At this point you have effectively recreated ancient Hayastan, but by almost 2 centuries before the fact, since EB is blitz-friendly. Some things you could do at this point are build up your economic base (more than you have done so already), defend your eastern borders against futile attacks, take Asia minor, or invade and annihilate the Ptolemaic empire (I would do this last). I would argue against anybody who says that Hayastan has the hardest campaign, but that would be useless since I'm in no objective position to argue (you know what I'm talking about?)
So lighten up. Have a Red Bull. Gives you wings.
EDIT: Oh, sorry, I forgot about the people without a sense of humour...this one's for you. Don't invade the north. You can make the Sarmatians your allies by turn #3, no questions asked, every single campaign. Guaranteed. This is VH/M, as recommended by the EB dev team. Next, have archers, lots of archers. Archers take out lightly armoured ground and mounted troops, easy easy lemon squeezy. Slingers and your remaining arrows take out heavily armoured troops that should be pinned by your lightly armoured men. You do lose men in the process but you should expect no less and no more. That's why you keep re-filling those voids of pins by mercs and/or more light spears. And I don't need to talk about the use of lance cav, almost exclusively on the Heavy aisle for the Hye. And I certainly need not talk about the early stages of the campaign. If you can't figure out that you need to secure the Caucasus, I sure as heck hope you're not running for Governor of Cali, coz you ain't getting my vote.
I think there are quite alot of sucessful campaigns of the hai (or hye, whatever) out there. They are a great challenge faction and are fun to play. I did them myself back in EB 1.1 I think? (cannot see my sig right now). All those smaller factions are just fun to play. As for siegfriedfr; you really need to lighten up... I have no pictures of my conquest either. Are you going to have a go at me too? Are you going to have a go at everyone who comes along and says they won a difficult campaign? I personally suck as Baktria and have major trouble beleiving anyone can survive as them while at the same time I find Pontus, hayasdan most of the nomads and the Saba to be very doable and fun, doesn't mean i am out getting grumpy at people coz they kick arse with baktria.
On topic, nicely done Brave Sir Robin. I tend to do as vartan says and go west first though. I love the wealth of Asia Minor and the bottleneck of Syria. But once you have some spare wealth its worthwhile for me at least to invest in 2 small stacks of horse archers recruitable from (forget the name) the little town with no walls to the north-east of armavir. Use those to pacify the steppes and then either develop them for some decent money eventually or to clean the sauro's off the map and then retreat and leave them filled with rebels. (justify it as a surgical strike to forever neuter the threat of steppe invasion if you care about roleplay and feel guilty about killing them all).
EDIT: Nope, I did the Hai more recently, must have been early into EB1.2 patch.
Build the highest government types you can in Kotais, Mtskheta and Kabalaka. You will still be able to train HAs from the regional barracks in those three towns. Kabalaka is the name of the town Blxz forgot.
If you can't figure out that you need to secure the Caucasus, I sure as heck hope you're not running for Governor of Cali, coz you ain't getting my vote.
Ahahahahahahah :laugh4: XD
Brave Brave Sir Robin
08-24-2010, 15:57
Well my campaign is still in danger. As you can see my finances are still not that strong while the Ptolies throw stack after stack at Karkathiokerta. I recently lost it to a stack full of Galatian Heavies and Kleruchon Agema though I'm in the process of taking the city back. Also Persepolis and Gabai are so far east compared to my other towns that I'm afraid that if Pahlava betray me, they will fall pretty quickly.
siegfriedfr
08-24-2010, 17:38
I think there are quite alot of sucessful campaigns of the hai (or hye, whatever) out there. They are a great challenge faction and are fun to play. I did them myself back in EB 1.1 I think? (cannot see my sig right now). All those smaller factions are just fun to play. As for siegfriedfr; you really need to lighten up... I have no pictures of my conquest either. Are you going to have a go at me too? Are you going to have a go at everyone who comes along and says they won a difficult campaign? I personally suck as Baktria and have major trouble beleiving anyone can survive as them while at the same time I find Pontus, hayasdan most of the nomads and the Saba to be very doable and fun, doesn't mean i am out getting grumpy at people coz they kick arse with baktria.
I just have a hard soft spot in my heart for people who need to be begged for advice. Can't help it.
Lysimachos
08-24-2010, 20:18
The Hai game is meant to be hard. In history they failed.
Hmpf. So, all campaigns except the Romans and Parthians should be as hard, since those two were the only ones to have a huge empire at the end of the timeframe?
Daiyoukai Ramza
08-24-2010, 22:26
Well my campaign is still in danger. As you can see my finances are still not that strong while the Ptolies throw stack after stack at Karkathiokerta. I recently lost it to a stack full of Galatian Heavies and Kleruchon Agema though I'm in the process of taking the city back. Also Persepolis and Gabai are so far east compared to my other towns that I'm afraid that if Pahlava betray me, they will fall pretty quickly.
Personally, I find Karkathiokerta really easy to defend; in fact, I consider it the easiest-to-defend city (that I've played a siege on) in the game, thanks mostly to the ridiculously steep slopes on the two sides enemies are most likely to attack from.
Of course, I brutally abuse this by keeping an almost entirely archer-based garrison in Karkathiokerta. Foot archers for the walls, and horse-archers for chasing down routers. Any infantry is there for 'just in case' type of situations, which only happen once in a blue moon.
athanaric
08-24-2010, 22:41
Personally, I find Karkathiokerta really easy to defend; in fact, I consider it the easiest-to-defend city (that I've played a siege on) in the game, thanks mostly to the ridiculously steep slopes on the two sides enemies are most likely to attack from.
4 Caucasian Archers
2 Eastern Axemen
2 Caucasian Spearmen
2 Skythian HAs
1 FM
You're set. Let the full stacks come...
Luis Sera
08-24-2010, 23:25
Maybe some slingers to add to that? i mean they are armour piercing arent they?
Brave Brave Sir Robin
08-25-2010, 00:47
Ugh, unfortunately I concentrated my 3 archer units on his one siege tower which was being towed by Galatians with 2 Klerechon Agema behind. It never burned... His other units tied down my axemen long enough that the Galatians got onto the wall supported by the Agema and it was goodnight for me.
But don't worry, i took it back and now have put a better defense force in it with 3 archers, 2 slingers, FM, 2 Armenian Spearmen, and 2 axemen. They're not getting in now!
Well my campaign is still in danger. As you can see my finances are still not that strong while the Ptolies throw stack after stack at Karkathiokerta. I recently lost it to a stack full of Galatian Heavies and Kleruchon Agema though I'm in the process of taking the city back. Also Persepolis and Gabai are so far east compared to my other towns that I'm afraid that if Pahlava betray me, they will fall pretty quickly.
I recently mentioned the two approaches to the Hai campaign, regarding the western invasion and the eastern invasion. The eastern invasion, recreating Persia, is a far more difficult-to-hold progression. All things considered, the western approach is easier in difficulty.
WinsingtonIII
08-25-2010, 06:29
I'm not going to rate them all, but here's my view of which are hardest from personal experience.
1. Pontus - hardest by a decent margin in my opinion
2. Hayasdan - Personally, I found this campaign much easier than Pontus, but still difficult.
3. Saka
4. Sauromatae
5. Pahlava
To be honest, part of the reason all three steppe factions are there is because I am terrible with horse archers, I just don't use them well (I'm far too impatient for them). The other reason is poor economy.
Other than those five, the rest I've tried haven't been so bad. Casse and Saba are actually pretty easy if you ask me. The start is daunting, I know, but once you're past that rough patch, you have plenty of time to expand at your leisure and take rebel provinces. Saba does have a hard mid game because you're going to be facing superior quality troops, but if it's getting too tough you can always resort to pantodapoi phalangitai.
Pahlava isn't that hard especially as they have a good economy(once reformed) AND a horse archer army which is very potent with enough patience, imho definately easier than saba and bactria, especially(compared to saba not bactria^^) in late game where you have(and can afford) amungst the strongest units availible plus a somewhat decent infantry division with hellenic and eastern infantry. Sauromate are not that bad either but don't have nearly as much potencial as practiacally all factions but the saba.
this only applies for people who like to use horse archers, like myself - supporting a halfstack of tracian and Skythian light cavalry as the KH in my first campaign whereas I really suck at using phalangites :(
ps this is not directed towards you, WinsingtonII but more the general opinion that pahlava is more challenging than Pontos or Bactria, personally I'd even rate Pontos more challenging than Hai because of their general fighting style but on a more subjective level they seem pretty even to me
Maybe some slingers to add to that? i mean they are armour piercing arent they?
Yes, they're AP, but phalanxes are suprisingly missile-resistant even with AP projectiles. Welcome to the .Org, and to EB, BTW ~:wave: .
Luis Sera
08-25-2010, 14:35
yeah i found that i need to hit them from behind to do any real damage but thats with most things. And cheers, been lurking on here since .78 i think, thought it was time to finally get an account
WinsingtonIII
08-25-2010, 17:52
Pahlava isn't that hard especially as they have a good economy(once reformed) AND a horse archer army which is very potent with enough patience, imho definately easier than saba and bactria, especially(compared to saba not bactria^^) in late game where you have(and can afford) amungst the strongest units availible plus a somewhat decent infantry division with hellenic and eastern infantry. Sauromate are not that bad either but don't have nearly as much potencial as practiacally all factions but the saba.
this only applies for people who like to use horse archers, like myself - supporting a halfstack of tracian and Skythian light cavalry as the KH in my first campaign whereas I really suck at using phalangites :(
ps this is not directed towards you, WinsingtonII but more the general opinion that pahlava is more challenging than Pontos or Bactria, personally I'd even rate Pontos more challenging than Hai because of their general fighting style but on a more subjective level they seem pretty even to me
I'm confused here. First you say that Pahlava is easy, but then you say they are more challenging then Pontos? And then you say Pontos is more challenging than Hayasdan, which I agree with. I think somewhere in there you switched Pontos and Pahlava.
I'll admit, the one time I played Baktria, it was harder than I expected, but once you get mines, generally you can survive pretty well, it just leads to an annoying mid game where you have to constantly fight the Saka in the North and AS agryaspide and pantodapoi (depending on what part of the empire the army is coming from) spam in the West. The early game is hard though, and until you get those mines up there's always the chance you're going to lose.
As for Pahlava, I was referring more to the early game, when they don't have a good economy, but yes, that is in part because I don't like HA's.
The thing about Saba is, if you start building population growth buildings (farms, healers, sanitization, etc) early on, you can have MASSIVE cities in South Arabia very early on in the game. My starting city, Maryab, was a full blown city of 14,000 by 255 BC, and Tamane was close behind. Once you have these huge cities, you can really start raking in the cash, and if you take the time to build up all the Yemeni and Omani cities to this level, you will have quite the economy going and you'll be able to expand into Ethiopia and Egypt with overwhelming numbers. I know it's not historical, but in terms of ease of play, it works.
sorry I phrased it badly, offcource your interpretation is correct, I meant to say that the post was not directed "against" you but instead the belief that pahlava is more challenging than ...
and I never said they are easy just not amungst the most challenging factions like Saka, Hai and Pontos more at the level of "barbarians" etc.
with most factions the most problems are in early game, "even" with pahlava, true but you have the great advantage oer saka and sauros that you can actually attack worthwhile cities right away and feast of the weak eastern outposts of the AS and farm thier relief forces for stars and chevrons^^
bactria is not yet a threat and neither sakans nor sauros are likly to attack you before you can field Cataphrakts.
as bactria there is , as you already mentioned, always the the threat of getting whiped out by the Saka Rauka or a overfortunate AS "policeforce" until you manage to build up a good economy.
I never personally played the Sabeans but from what I've seen in the campaign although they have room to expand and time to establish themselves, you can't really field as powerfull troops as other factions, especially those around you :(
when under AI control they often manage to stockpile vast quanties of cash but even thier Elite Fullstacks á la AS or ptolemies don't mean ANY threat to a player who tries to conquer Arabia.
most AI fullstacks are either extremely annoying or a real threat to your empire,
sabean are not even a nuisance, maybe they are one when playing as Swboz but Importing (syrian/persian/mounted)Archers there is not really more costy than dugunthiz ;)
WinsingtonIII
08-25-2010, 21:33
I never personally played the Sabeans but from what I've seen in the campaign although they have room to expand and time to establish themselves, you can't really field as powerfull troops as other factions, especially those around you :(
when under AI control they often manage to stockpile vast quanties of cash but even thier Elite Fullstacks á la AS or ptolemies don't mean ANY threat to a player who tries to conquer Arabia.
most AI fullstacks are either extremely annoying or a real threat to your empire,
sabean are not even a nuisance, maybe they are one when playing as Swboz but Importing (syrian/persian/mounted)Archers there is not really more costy than dugunthiz ;)
Yes, I can agree that Pahlava would be more at the level of the "barbarians" to someone who's actually good with HA's, just for me, since I'm an infantry general, I find "barbarians" easier.
As for Saba, their weak troops are really their only weakness. Their economy is actually quite good and their starting location is great. It makes sense that the AI Saba is never a major player, because in autoresolve Saba troops get mauled by phalanxes. Phalanxes maul pretty much everything in autoresolve though, I think it has something to do with their huge numbers, as well as their stats of course. Their location isn't good for AI expansion either, as the AI is mostly incapable of crossing the ocean.
But, as a player, you can fight out your battles, and played correctly, it's not super hard to beat AI phalanx armies even with your light Saba troops. Sabaen levy spearmen are actually pretty decent lineholders with good morale, and Arabian light infantry and cavalry, Red Sea axemen, Sabaen medium cavalry, Sabaen Nobles, and your bodyguards all work well as flankers. Just keep your spearmen in guard mode to occupy the phalanxes and hit them from behind. If you have to, you can always recruit pantodapoi phalangitai as line holders instead as well. Once you take Egypt, you will most likely have the best economy in the game, and as such, it will be difficult for the AI to stop you, even with their money bonuses. The battles may not be easy with your troops, but you'll have so much money it won't matter if you lose a couple.
Revoltie
08-26-2010, 01:38
Well, I do consider Hai to be one of the hardest ones, but one campaign that looks hard in the start screen is probably the AS, they fight on way too many fronts.
The nomad factions are pie, once you get pass the economic crysis, you can pretty much chew everything in the game, I like Saka a lot, but all the blitzing is just not fun after some time.
I like the style of play of the "easier" factions like Casse and Lusotanna, as you can take your time and enjoy the game instead of just "ZOMG ATTACK FIVE TIMES PER TURN OR DIE!"
WinsingtonIII
08-27-2010, 03:44
Well, I do consider Hai to be one of the hardest ones, but one campaign that looks hard in the start screen is probably the AS, they fight on way too many fronts.
The key to the AS early game is learning to let go. You're going to lose some provinces in the east, that's simply a given. In my first AS game, I didn't really understand that, and I fought tooth and nail for the eastern cities, lost them anyways, and then was in an even worse situation because I had been wasting money on troops in the east instead of improving the infrastructure in the more important (aka easier to hold) parts of the empire.
Against the Parthians, you should fall back to Hektampylos and Zadrakata instead of fighting to retake Asaak. If you build walls up quickly and consolidate forces in the area, you can hold those cities. You should also give Marakanda and Alexandria-Eschate to Baktria, as this avoids war with the Saka and strengthens Baktria so they may be able to hold them back. You may even want to give Antiocheia-Margiane to Baktria, because you'll probably lose it to Pahlava. Though Alexandreia-Ariana and Propthasia will be quite isolated now, you should be able to hold them even if Baktria attacks you, especially Propthasia, which is one of the easiest cities to defend in the game due to the fact that the only two approaches to the city from the West, South, and North are two river crossings that are incredibly easy to defend, and Baktria won't be going all the around the mountain range to come at it from the East any time soon.
In the West, things aren't so bad. Pontos and Hayasdan don't get in on the action early on generally, so it's just the Ptolies, and once you kick them out of Asia Minor (fairly easy to do), you only have to fight them on one front in the Levant. As long as you don't lose Antioch, you're set. If you do, well, then you're in a bit of trouble, but it should be pretty easy to hold.
Buildings that are your friend as the AS early on are the cheap public health buildings (give both happiness and pop growth bonus), law giving buildings (reduce corruption and revolt), and of course, roads.
Check out Hax's guide to the AS here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?125306-Arche-Seleukeia-A-Guide-by-with-Hax) to get a much more detailed analysis, it's a fun campaign.
seienchin
08-27-2010, 16:19
4 Caucasian Archers
2 Eastern Axemen
2 Caucasian Spearmen
2 Skythian HAs
1 FM
You're set. Let the full stacks come...
Strange...
The time I took Karthakiokerta, that was about the only army I could afford and I was atacked from 2 sides by the seleucs and also from Pontos.
The reason i ended the game was that I lost Kotais and then Armavir to two rebel stack, who spawned near them and atacked and conquered them before I could do anything.
Maybe I should have gone the blitzing way.
Revoltie
08-27-2010, 17:50
Woah, speaking like that AS seems a really juicy campaign, I'm currently playing the Makedones, I'll try it as soon as I finish it.
Regarding those dirty eleutheroi barbaroi stacks, I just auto_win those, come on, those things aren't even fair.
seienchin
08-27-2010, 20:27
AS is in my opinion the easiest campain. You can have 10.000 profits in the first round.
Revoltie
08-29-2010, 00:25
I don't know really, AS is one of the few factions I never played.
artavazd
08-29-2010, 03:05
The Hai game is meant to be hard. In history they failed. Admittedly they lasted for a while but still went in the end. Thats what I like so much about this mod, if I want to change history I have a big uphill battle to fight. Especially considering I am too lazy to be very 'gamey' (or strategic) with my tactics. I tend to make a big line of dudes and charge the enemy and hope that enough of my guys come out the other side still alive. Tends to work most times, at least I am a good player on the macro campaign, I just suck at micro control.
Man, I am gonna go play a game of them now. Thanks for the inspiration guys.
Which Armenian kingdom are you referring to? Are you referring to Tigran's Empire? Well Armenia throughout her history has been an independent kingdom,many times from antiquity to the middle ages (until 1375 when Cilician Armenia fell). Today it is a republic. There is the Armenian language with its unique alphabet which is not Cyrlic or Latin or Aramaic. So where did it fail?
Which Armenian kingdom are you referring to? Are you referring to Tigran's Empire? Well Armenia throughout her history has been an independent kingdom,many times from antiquity to the middle ages (until 1375 when Cilician Armenia fell). Today it is a republic. There is the Armenian language with its unique alphabet which is not Cyrlic or Latin or Aramaic. So where did it fail?
Don't mind yexbayr. The author was simply misinformed jan.
So many say that the hard factions are really challenging - maybe, i play on VH/VH and i have to admit that i have the most difficulties with barbarian factions at the moment i am tryin sweboz for the 5th or 6th time just because i think it's one of the hardest goes i had (no matter what some guys say - disbanding units is a "no go" for me), problem is to get a population which is able to support your troops, and even when you own nearly the complete north your profits are so small that it takes nearly 15-20 years until you will be able to even think about recuiting a new soldier - until then the growing populuation is causing difficulties because you don't have enough troops to secure public order, you simply end up with your FM rushing through every town in the north until you have enough population to consolidate your budget - and it takes ages ( as long as you don't catch the bigger fishes to the south and prayin not to end up fighting roman mercenary armies to soon)
Hayasdan was quite easy just unite your army and crush the AS mainland right from the beginning if you're not too untalented you will have the central empire in quite a few turns - it was surprisingly easy, and btw when you've got the euphrat tigris region you won't suffer from financial problems - ok AS is sending some stacks from antiocha and minor asia - but you have the money so use it invest in some mercenaries, and crush them - maybe you will lose one settlement but hey you've got minimum 5-6 from them so dammit, if your're dividing your forces in two medium sized stacks and are doing well with cavalry tactics combined with some skirmisher/archer assistence you will be able to capture or at least devastate antiocha an it's surroundings.
I tried to go other ways - but when you try to gain control of the caucasus you will be too slow to gain money and being able to defend against AS, heading north? .... ehm those scripted HA stacks will simply shred your army before any of your weapons is in reach - but i gave it a try - autoresolved battles are the only solution but i prefer to play every battle by myself - you can try to kill pontos with a lot of luck as long as his stack is sieging another city but that means that your lands are vulnerable and AS AI knows that .
Same with Pahlava but many times easier due to your HA and FM + those spies - just be quick - hit it fast and hard, you usually win matches in a relation of 1:10 or even more depending how many bodyguards and riders you own - best way for me was to go straight to the provinces with mines and secure persepolis and ekbatana ASAP - problem is usually public security - train spies and assassins to get rid of those from AS they will safe you money because usually it takes either time to build some spearmen or money if you have to garrison with HA (unit is about 350+ per turn)
Pontos i tried twice and i think the availability of versatile troops is the point which is the matchwinner + those chariots (i think they are overpowered but their price is ok) - with them, i think you have quite a few options to start - ran into AS and aim their heartland as with hayasdan - or if you are really superior you can take some of their settlements right away and with a bit luck win minor asia, a third option is quite easy i believe i didn't tried it yet - abandon minor asia and head for mikra skythia, tylis, byzantion they aren't well guarded and with other factions quite easy to get (even with sweboz (a trait said my general wants to sniff southern air so i just ran for the black sea;)) - in a post regarding that somebody wrote that you can invade the crimea region too
sabean campaign was the one i didn't even try - i saw my surroundings, saw my troops, saw my enemies and thought - ok sweboz reloaded, with a far more boring starting position - i thought that i don't want to play a week till i can fight my first battle against a regular faction - i think the position is nice but without enemies it's simply to far off, and i think it will take too many turns until you make money
chartage is the most interesting faction and the most capable one in my opinion no matter in which world you are fighting a battle, you will have the answer to every other type of troops, especially their heavy+light cav, and their ability to support them in masses is fascinating - capture 1 or 2 bigger towns from your enemies and you can keep those infantry frightening wandering gatebreaker from the beginning - you can expand whereever you like - africa, spain,italy, makedonia other factions are simply no match for you as long as you are able to navigate your reinforcements through those piratefleets - but if you succeed you will have plenty of money and can recruit merc units like crazy
Romani - quite easy beginning but u usually have many losses against barbarians - until your units gained some experience - but hey you are the money stuffed romani - who cares about losses when he can simply retrain every turn. i think they are too easy because you don't have real enemies in the beginning but got those well armored troops and the money to buy them right away
BUT if you are playing another european faction the romani are simply a pain in the ass - they are expanding fast, and what is more bitter - thy simply buy stack after stack full of mercenaries - they have uncountable amounts of money which spoils the experience conquering italy really much - you steal nearly every province but in the end you have problems to kill him due to the fact that he is able to simply buy whole armies - it is simply senseless that he can provide some full stacks without having sufficient provinces - if you have a look to other factions, you will see that they don't sucking up every merc unit they can get - at least not in that dimension
Makedons - KH - Eipiros - if you win the first battles and manage to unite the greek homeland you will have an rather easy, in parts boring campaign - only real threat are the romani - AS usually has too many other struggles to concentrate on you, getai are simply no match, sauromate stand no chance, and gaining land overseas is quite easy phalangitai are simply too mighty if played by a human against AI
Sauromatae - just tried it once and i don't really like nomad factions (beside pahlava due to reform) FM +HA running over the world as long as you are able to keep public security in captured towns no resistance will interfere with your plans no matter in which direction you want to expand
Saka Rauka - quit playing atm - seen too many phalangitai in the past weeks ... and shooting them down isn't really fun as long as there is nobody shooting back^^, starting position is a annoying because those HA/HA matches are often really stressful
Getai - nice faction, i like them, nice position but a bit quite for a long time - usually you start to "interact" with others when you already secured quite a bit of land - nice would be a faster expanding sweboz (in every campaign)
Luso-Averni- Aedui - nice troops, nice positions, not so nice merc crazy romans with masses of extraordinarii pedites (or so) (AI simply uses them as army backbone - and they are quite a match for my hemp robe tribals^^)
Ptolemaioi - or eastern Carthago - easy to play clever clever greeks+african units with an easy starting position usually fighting most other clever clever greeks for the most of the time- like in vanilla one really easy go
casse- didn't play them yet, they've got chariots - so they cannot lose^^
barbarian factions are in my opinion usually the hardest ones - they usually suffer many losses and got problems to start gaining money, many eleutheroi surroundings are quite heavy garrisoned - good to stop a fast expanding roman AI but even worse when you are not able to capture the land you need to survive.
seienchin
08-29-2010, 12:23
You know some like to roleplay and Hayasdan overruning AS in 270bc doesnt work in that case. ;)
Also blitzing is easy with nearly every faction, but its also boring in my opinion.
Revoltie
08-29-2010, 15:07
How do you define blitzing? In my makedonian campaign I managed to kill Epeiros and kick KH from greece in 269 b.c. Is that blitzing? D:
Ovidiuhtm
08-29-2010, 15:44
Here's my 2 Cents.
I liked the Hai campaign , not that hard if you blitz. Caucasian archers are godsent , slingers also . A close 3rd place are the scythian/sauro mercs. Also , phalanxes feel like cheating against AI..
Aedui are the hardest as i feel i need to migrate to Britain:))
WinsingtonIII
08-29-2010, 19:29
AS is in my opinion the easiest campain. You can have 10.000 profits in the first round.
There's no way AS is easier than the Romani, Kart-Hadast, or Ptolies. To say it's a relatively easy campaign is accurate, once you get past the initial issues of crappy infrastructure, overstretched forces, and enemies in all directions, you have a huge empire with a huge amount of manpower and resources at your disposal. But I don't understand how it's easier than the Romans, Carthies, or Ptolies, all of whom start with good economies, safe starting positions, and few enemies. To some extent I'd even say that the Getai and Casse are both easier than the AS, simply because those are two factions where you can pretty much avoid war for years and take your time consolidating power. I'm also not sure how you made 10,000 in the first turn, did you not build any buildings or forces?
How do you define blitzing? In my makedonian campaign I managed to kill Epeiros and kick KH from greece in 269 b.c. Is that blitzing? D:
Yes, that sounds like blitzing to me.
Revoltie
08-29-2010, 21:33
Damn. I always thought I wasn't a blitzer, that is pretty bad D:
But, well, if you loook into history, then Alexandros and Temudjin were the biggest blitzers ever xD
Damn. I always thought I wasn't a blitzer, that is pretty bad D:
But, well, if you loook into history, then Alexandros and Temudjin were the biggest blitzers ever xD
That's only 'cause they used cheats.
Revoltie
08-30-2010, 04:23
"add_troop Pezheitaroi" as an example?
"add_unit Horse Archers" as another? :laugh4:
I know that Julius Barbaroi used cheats at pontos, he even bragged about it.
NoHelmet
08-30-2010, 10:02
Actually, there is a well established opinion among the scientific community that he used the "move_character" cheat :book:
Mulceber
08-30-2010, 13:45
There's no way AS is easier than the Romani, Kart-Hadast, or Ptolies.
I can't speak for the Ptolemies, but AS is definitely easier than Kart-Hadast and Rome. Rome, as I mentioned earlier, is made difficult by the fact that you have a LOT of land to conquer and it becomes quite difficult to ferry your troops back and forth half-way across the map to retrain them. Kart-Hadast suffers, I think, from the fact that its troops aren't quite as robust as those of Rome (at least in my opinion). For the AS, if you can handle the issues of the first 20 turns, it becomes a cake-walk. That's why I think it's easy. It may be difficult in the first few years, but once you stabilize the economy, AS has a large population, a large stream of revenue, the most diverse troops of the game and some of the most powerful troops of the game. In short, it's a powerhouse. Rome and Kart-Hadast, by comparison, are easy in the first decade or so, but then become significantly more difficult once you start running into enemies overseas. -M
WinsingtonIII
08-30-2010, 15:27
I can't speak for the Ptolemies, but AS is definitely easier than Kart-Hadast and Rome. Rome, as I mentioned earlier, is made difficult by the fact that you have a LOT of land to conquer and it becomes quite difficult to ferry your troops back and forth half-way across the map to retrain them. Kart-Hadast suffers, I think, from the fact that its troops aren't quite as robust as those of Rome (at least in my opinion). For the AS, if you can handle the issues of the first 20 turns, it becomes a cake-walk. That's why I think it's easy. It may be difficult in the first few years, but once you stabilize the economy, AS has a large population, a large stream of revenue, the most diverse troops of the game and some of the most powerful troops of the game. In short, it's a powerhouse. Rome and Kart-Hadast, by comparison, are easy in the first decade or so, but then become significantly more difficult once you start running into enemies overseas. -M
Eh I guess I've never played far enough into a Roman or Carthaginian game, because I've always found them easy to the point of being uninteresting
Rome and Kart-Hadast, by comparison, are easy in the first decade or so, but then become significantly more difficult once you start running into enemies overseas. -M
They become significantly more difficult? As Kart-Hadast you can easily conquer whole Iberia and then there is nothing that can stop you, because the roman AI isn't very expansionistic. Rome is maybe a little bit harder, but actually still easier then AS since the roman economy is strong, the infantry is very cost-effective and you can choose where to expand without fearing many enemys. But maybe I'm too good in playing EB to be objectiv.
Revoltie
08-30-2010, 23:39
That is why I use the Realist Movement Mod, the AI turns into a steamroller with it, in my Makedonia campaign, the Getai conquered all eastern europe up to Finland, the AS are total monsters and romans are expandin g like barbarians.
Hello,
Please rate the campaigns by order of difficulty and give your opinion on what could be done to make it more friendly to the average player.
From hardest to easiest:
1. Hayasdan
> possible fix: adding basic mines building in all caucasus city and upping population, making core relationship with seleucid "allies"
2. Saba
> adding basic mines building in meroe, tamane and carna, a fleetport in homna, making core relationships with seleucid/ptole "ally"
3. Saka
> not much to do, rush or die
4. Pahlava
> Adding mines in cities bordering the caspian sea, making the reformed parthian gov a lvl 1 native MIC
5. Sauromatae
> just like saka, not much to do
All the factions listed after that don't suffer any severe problem and would not require a tweak.
6. Pontus
7. Getai
8. Casse
9. Sweboz
10. Arverni
11. Aedui
12. Baktria
The easy factions:
13. Seleucid
14. Lusotanian
15. Greeks
16. Epirus
17. Macedon
18. Ptolemaioi
19. Carthage
20. Romani
"Adding mine and ports"??? what's the point of choosing a hard faction if it's to make it filthy rich and easy to play! As if I'd use Sweboz and decide to add mines to every cities (amber and timber excavation) plus add population until all settelements become huge cities... real challenge... i could also put all their units at 2 HP... just in case it's still too hard
seienchin
08-31-2010, 13:56
Maybe some people like realism ;)
Having a faction which is deep into bankruptcy by maintaining a small army, every rebell city in the game has, allthough you have 4, isnt really realistic and forces the player to exploit all the AI weakness.
Hmm, you do understand that in my previous post i was being totally sarcastic... do you?
Maybe some people like realism ;)
Having a faction which is deep into bankruptcy by maintaining a small army, every rebell city in the game has, allthough you have 4, isnt really realistic and forces the player to exploit all the AI weakness.
Small factions in this period never tended to be able to support large standing armies for long periods.
athanaric
08-31-2010, 15:52
"Adding mine and ports"??? what's the point of choosing a hard faction if it's to make it filthy rich and easy to play! As if I'd use Sweboz and decide to add mines to every cities (amber and timber excavation) plus add population until all settelements become huge cities... real challenge... i could also put all their units at 2 HP... just in case it's still too hard
I agree with you. Nothing should be done to make the game easier. All campaigns are playable on VH/M by a moderately competent player. Also, building things up from scratch is actually a major source of motivation for me to play the Swêboz.
Small factions in this period never tended to be able to support large standing armies for long periods.I think you misunderstood him. He wants smaller starting armies for some minor factions.
WinsingtonIII
08-31-2010, 15:59
I think you misunderstood him. He wants smaller starting armies for some minor factions.
Actually, I don't think he's saying that. As far as I can tell, he's saying that it doesn't make sense for a 4 city small faction to be driven into debt by a small army the same size as the armies supported by single small rebel cities. So arguably he could be saying you need to reduce rebel garrisons for it to make sense, or increase the amount of forces a small faction can support.
Of course, I may be completely misinterpreting, so please tell me if I'm wrong, seiechen.
One musn't forget that while standing armies for smaller kingdoms, nations,... were small or not even existing (depending on the faction), armies for defense or for raised for short periods/campaigns could be big. It would be silly to give the eleutheroi very small armies, because in times of emergency they could levy large armies. Hence the way it is.
Maybe some people like realism ;)
Having a faction which is deep into bankruptcy by maintaining a small army, every rebell city in the game has, allthough you have 4, isnt really realistic and forces the player to exploit all the AI weakness.
The problem with realism and so-called roleplaying is that it is simply the wrong game - sure it is possible to replay some historic campaigns with some factions - but simply not with every faction, and it is good as it is - only way to prevent the dependance to blitzing AI factions is to delete the scripted AI armies, and to reduce the Eleutheroi stacks in their settlements to give the player a chance to expand by not invading bordering foreign empires.
For realism in this game there are simply too much possibilities and influences missing, and to be realistic (with a bit smiling) every king general or leader in ancient times would have used every chance to expand his riches and territory if he had a engine given chance to do so^^. But beeing serious again - there are simply to much restrictions by the engine especially the economy will simply prevent you from beeing able to play a realistic game with every faction. I would prefer a better playability and a much better economy as well as more influence on the economy but then i will have to play other games - some paradox titles are nice and challenging but are missing the tactical part - so i play total war+mods for the challenge to expand strategically on the campaign map and beating the ai in the field employing a variety of tactics - the more challenging both modes are the better is the taste of success - , in reality nobody wins with one unit heavy cav and 3 units HA against 400+ men (normal unit size), in rome/ EB you do and you have to when the AI invades your territory with stacks bought of scripted financial support otherwise the game says "game over" or " faction destroyed - btw ahistorical destroyed".
And I don't like the argument (saw it in other post where some came up with it) about giving nomads zero unit upkeep due to the fact that they didn't even know money or a kind of money based economy - money is just a placeholder for a worth measured by other objects of trade, and economy so in fact - even in a nomad culture the employment of a heavy armored well trained soldier+horse will have a certain impact on his nomad-community's economy - so the upkeep is just a placeholder for this impact....
maybe it is a good way to enhance the gameplay via reducing the support for AI factions and autonomous settlements' troops in regard to the difficulty chosen by the player if it is possible - so both parties will be able to play a EB which is giving them their favoured gaming experience - hobbyblitzkrieger who seek kind of a challenge and hobbyvirtualreenactors who are seeking a smoother but more realistic balancing of the factions....
hope i am not to offensive to the second group of players ^^ ...
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