Trying a new faction... 0_o

[Duguntz]

Hello guys and girls and friends from all over the world! I haven't been here for a while, have to study scores for my next opera. But i have a bit of time though to change my ming of studying and go do some antique ass-kicking XD I'm as hardcore sweboz fan as before, don't get me wrong, but knowing them more than very well, I'd like to add new flavour to my game. i'm not very into eastern factions. I wanted to know if there's any way of playing Epeiros without relying mostly on phalanx (I must say, phalanxes fights get me bored veery fast!) Do their auxiliaries and mercenaries are good enough to stand against makx phalanxes and romans principes? I like the setting and the starting place of Epeiros and would like to give it a serious try... without relying on phalanxes. any advises?

Cheers to all!

[alexanderthegreater]

If you want to try out a faction with a position like Epeiros, but dont like phalanxes, I would recommend Koinon hellenon. Heavy infantry based, but overall a very balanced and flexible army build with peltasts, kretan archers, thureophoroi, and some ok cavalry (though not as good as seleucid/mak cavalry).
Then again, you could probably be quite effective with epeiros without phalanxes. You would have to rely on thureophoroi/thorakitai for you heavy infantry then.

[Duguntz]

hoplites are kick-ass units with Koinon, with all their versatile Heavy infantry. Though, Epeiros have elephants 0_o... and are somewhat..I dunno... more "exotic" if I can say that. i don't know, it's just a feeling!

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Epirus is good because the various Italic infantry units are useful. Samnite heavy infantry are amazing.

[Arjos]

Their Thorakitai are quite good too ^^

[Duguntz]

And what's the dificulty best suited for them? I don't want to have it easy. but on the other hand, i don't want to have my ass handed over by the Maks in 5 turns! I tried H\M... hope it'll be nice!

[Cute Wolf]

let's see... Epeiros = Renegade Phyrros who like to kick everyone's ass and everyone want to kick his ass as well, historically, you should playin at VH/M

[Basileus_ton_Basileon]

coincidentally, I have a Eperios campaign ongoing. My armies do not consist of any pike phalanxes at all.

[Megas Methuselah]

I'd suggest migrating to the Bosporus or Kyrene or something. With a modded Epeiros, I migrated to Massalia and have been playing the same campaign for about 4 or 5 months now.

[Duguntz]

I'd suggest migrating to the Bosporus or Kyrene or something. With a modded Epeiros, I migrated to Massalia and have been playing the same campaign for about 4 or 5 months now.

That seems an interesting idea! One problem though, i've no modding experiance nor ability whatsoever!

@Basileus Ton Basileon : what are the composition of your armies, basicly?

[NoHelmet]

let's see... Epeiros = Renegade Phyrros who like to kick everyone's ass and everyone want to kick his ass as well, historically, you should playin at VH/M
Damn, you can play on VH/H without serious problems, you have the Motherload of mines at your disposal, i think that balkans are the greatest cash machine in the game (trade in greece, mines to the north). And you can train army to suit any enemy on your homeland. And as you said, Pyrrhos just kicks ass.

[Cute Wolf]

Damn, you can play on VH/H without serious problems, you have the Motherload of mines at your disposal, i think that balkans are the greatest cash machine in the game (trade in greece, mines to the north). And you can train army to suit any enemy on your homeland. And as you said, Pyrrhos just kicks ass.

H = AI units got +4 attack +4 defense, and some morale bonus.... you'll fought against hoplitai haploi that could pwn thureophroi then....

[NoHelmet]

well, i never said i would give my phalanxes away, did i? ;) On VH/M my deuteroi hold against pedites extraordinarii, and on VH/H only a bit shorter... As always, properly deployed, with overwhelming cavalry superiority. And you have elephants, the ultimate routers. I played with Epeiros on VH/H for quite a while, but the exams made me pause, and in the meantime i discovered the wonders of pahlava. Now, i will go back to the good old Pyrrhos. And i use the tactics of family picnics on the battlefield, works like a charm combined with the elephants and phalangitai.

[Duguntz]

Yeah, with phalangitai, VH\H is very achievable, but as I don't intend to use phalanxes, and i'm surrounded by Maks, KH and Rome, I'll go for VH\M

[NoHelmet]

Well, you're right. Try this: ram your elephants directly into THROUGH the enemy's line. Then ram the horde of your light/medium infantry (e.g. illyrian paraliktoi, cheap, AP, quick) and then descend with that beatiful Epeirote cavalry from the flanks and the back. In the meantime, bring the elephants back and they should rout, one by one. It actually worked pretty good couple of times. But those triarii can be so annoying. Meh, AP spam. It might be ugly without beast of a general, though.

[Duguntz]

True that the Gen makes the difference between a night with the wifes of our ennemies and a day trying to look for our lost arm on tha battlefield... But until Phirros dies, i've a kick-ass gen in my hands! though I've a pretty nasty habit. as i play mostly with sweboz, I used to send my gen first in the first line to combat, for roleplay reason. and I see myselfdoing the same here... wich is pretty bad when your general is a cavalry!

[Cute Wolf]

umm, not particularly true with Epeirot's Mollosoan Agema Bodyguards, they have very good stamina, fast movement, and surprisingly resilient in melee... if you could manage them to have very high influence, you'll have free upkeep heavy cavalry with staying power that as fast as elite light cavalry

[athanaric]

Yeah, with phalangitai, VH\H is very achievable, but as I don't intend to use phalanxes, and i'm surrounded by Maks, KH and Rome, I'll go for VH\M
Epeiros can manage very well without phalanxes. Even the Illyrian units alone (Phyletichoi, Paraktioi, Thureophoroi, Hippeis) constitute a basic roster that can make for a war-winning army. Paraktioi with their clubs and basic armour are good against Romans, but suck against Barbarians (I've had to fight Makedonia as Swêboz... they liked to spam Paraktioi, who are useless against unarmoured Dugundiz).

You should have one or two units of Chaonion Agema though. They're just too good to miss.
And those Epeirote bodyguards are absolutely nasty buggers. Try fighting them as Rome and you'll see why.

[Jebivjetar]

And do not forget: in settlements like Tylis, Kallatis, Singidunim, Naissos, (sp?) you can train some really cool units if you build lvl4 gov (Thracian elite infantry and peltasts, Boi swordsmen, Scordisci elite infantry, Triballi infantry, Galatian heavy spearmen) !

[Basileus_ton_Basileon]

@ Klibanarophoros

Here is my initial stack:

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs191.ash2/45431_1417551646634_1467918459_31108950_6789605_n.jpg

It's cheap, sturdy and extremely versatile.

[NoHelmet]

And do not forget: in settlements like Tylis, Kallatis, Singidunim, Naissos, (sp?) you can train some really cool units if you build lvl4 gov (Thracian elite infantry and peltasts, Boi swordsmen, Scordisci elite infantry, Triballi infantry, Galatian heavy spearmen) !

Ah yes, trhracian elite infantry, god damn meat grinders if used properly, and those Scordisci tanks are tough as hell (pretty rarely seen outside rebel settlements, fortunately). Simply made to hack heavy infantry to pieces. Btw, i don't think that Epeiros can train galatian heavy spearmen, but you have plenty of line infantry to go around with. Hoplites usually do the job just fine, flanked by thureophoroi or someone else... As seen on screenshot above.

[Lazy O]

Ive progressed till Antioch in mine. VH/M.

I use Classical Hoplites instead of Pikes , thureophoroi, no samnites since the victory conditions tell you to go east not west, Agrianians instead of Thorakitai since they have higher lethality, better morale and AP bonus which is really useful against the romaioi barbaroi, grey death or yellow fever. Thraikians are excellent if you can develop that area fast enough for the blitz to the east but I forgot to build anything there lol. Generally, Elephants are too expensive since you have to defend both Italy and greece which requires a seperate reserve force for Italy. Overall, very veratile very fun to play.

[Basileus_ton_Basileon]

I don't know.....elephants seemed like cheating when I rampaged through Italy. I prefer to crush my enemies 'fair and square'.

[Megas Methuselah]

Epeiros has the coolest-looking thureophoroi in all of EB, btw. I tend to avoid phalangitai, too, but I do enjoy using a few hoplites to hold the center as an anvil while I have thureophoroi and similar troops performing crazy battlefield maneuvers on the flanks. If you don't plan on using phalangitai as your backbone line troops, you might as well use thureophoroi to their best advantage as flexible, fast-moving spearmen. It's the total opposite of having a line of phalangitai standing immobile against the enemy.

Basileus ton Basileon gave a great screenie of a nice Epeirote army without Alexandrian phalanxes.

[Duguntz]

@ Klibanarophoros

Here is my initial stack:

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs191.ash2/45431_1417551646634_1467918459_31108950_6789605_n.jpg

It's cheap, sturdy and extremely versatile.

Hmmm, I liky! That's the way I wanna fight with Epeirots!

[Lazy O]

Generally Ive found thureos to be better than thorakitai, since they are much cheaper and faster and have only minor difference in stats, not to mention availaible as mercs and all over the world

[Basileus_ton_Basileon]

Thorakitai are -that- little bit more durable in guard mode though, best to have a few standing in the middle of the line. They can still charge and move around in a counter attack/rout chase, but they aren't as agile as the Thuerophoroi of course. Just place peltasts (once they depleted their javalins) and elites behind them as reserves and you'll be fine.

Yes, for the flanks, use Thuerophoroi. They are wonderful hellenic grunt troops.

I'm actually somewhat annoyed by the zerg-like nature of the Romans, is their AI tweaked to zerg or something?

[vartan]

Getai. Nuff said.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Epeiros has the coolest-looking thureophoroi in all of EB, btw. I tend to avoid phalangitai, too, but I do enjoy using a few hoplites to hold the center as an anvil while I have thureophoroi and similar troops performing crazy battlefield maneuvers on the flanks. If you don't plan on using phalangitai as your backbone line troops, you might as well use thureophoroi to their best advantage as flexible, fast-moving spearmen. It's the total opposite of having a line of phalangitai standing immobile against the enemy.

Basileus ton Basileon gave a great screenie of a nice Epeirote army without Alexandrian phalanxes.

I'd add some Illyrioi Thureophoroi into an army like that. They are like a more flexible, less armored version of the Hellenic ones.

[Basileus_ton_Basileon]

A tad too light IMHO...They'll do good as reserve/flankers though...I'll have a go at them and see....

[NoHelmet]

A tad too light IMHO...They'll do good as reserve/flankers though...I'll have a go at them and see....

Preciselly. I hire them in droves with Aedui, i'm currently sacking Greece, but they are too light to fight on exposed positions in front lines. They get mowed by javelins and arrows. Standard thureophoroi are far more useful as movable flank-guards. Illyrioi are best kept in reserve, because they are fast as hell and are excellent at killing cavalry that gets too close to your lines and makes a stupid charge. And do Megas' crazy manouvers.

[Megas Methuselah]

And do Megas' crazy manouvers.

Yes.

[NoHelmet]

@ Klibanarophoros

Here is my initial stack:

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs191.ash2/45431_1417551646634_1467918459_31108950_6789605_n.jpg

It's cheap, sturdy and extremely versatile.

BTW, it's 251 BC, go north! Dalminion and Segestica, mines, money, and yes, getai. but it's worth it! Also, i may be a rusher, but this is too slow, Hellas is not yet yours?

[Duguntz]

251 BC? tsss, you should be in Bactria by now... XD