Tips and Tricks for New Players [Archive]

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athanaric

08-25-2010, 15:09

Here's the place for posting concise bits of advice regarding EB, but also unusual discoveries about RTW gameplay (that directly affect EB).
Issues that pop up again and again can be addressed here.
OP content is subject to change. This thread may require moving to the gameplay section.

Spam and off topic posts will be reported.

Advice so far (trying to keep up, thanks for everyone's input. Beginning to form a structure):

Units
Every single cavalry unit in EB has a secondary weapon. Usually it's quite useful, too.

All kopeis and falcatas in EB can pierce armour. They're wielded by a majority of Hellenistic and Iberian units.

Many factions can bribe Uirodusios but only barbarian ones can train them.

Romans can bribe Rhodian slingers but can't train them.

If you want your units, particularly cavalry, to use their secondary weapon, press and hold alt when making the attack command. With Elephants, this will direct their ranged attack (arrows or javelins).

Elephants: Also cost enormous amounts of money in upkeep, if you have them at the beginning (Carthage or Epirus) use them ASAP in battles or disband them.

Cavalry: Expensive in EB, though a lot less so than elephants. Again, use them up in battles as soon as you can in order to save money for town-building.

Training experience: As the Sweboz, you can recruit 4 chervon units straight from some cities (build a Type III or IV government and a temple of Deiwoz), and the Getai can do likewise if they build a temple of Ares in Sarmiszegethusa.

The Germanic nobles (Dreugulozez Brunjadoi) can be upgraded to 3/1 defense with a blacksmith, rather than 1/1 as with most units. This includes the reformed ones and the mercenaries, but not the general unit. It is a glitch, though.

As anyone with boats in the sea, you can recruit tons of good mercenaries from the southern tip of the Peloponnesos (south of Sparta), but it's blocked off from a land route so you have to use a fleet.

Defensive skill protects units in melee but not range, and shields only protect the left and front of the soldier. Armor protects all from every direction but is cut in half against armor piercing units, take this in consideration when facing different types of opponents. Your Gaesatae will be destroyed by horse archers and your Legions will be wrecked by Drapanai.

Agents
Counter-intelligence: Always leave a spy in any city that that is close to/bordering enemy or neutral factions. Your spy will often counteract enemy/neutral spies by ejecting him at the beginning of a round and he will also make that city harder for enemy/neutral spies to break into. An effective and cheap tactic (350 mnai a month per spy is nothing to keep your cities from revolting) to protect your cities when you are expanding halfway across the world from your homeland.

Keeping diplomats in your settlements, especially those without governor, reduce the chances of getting your settlements bribed.

Characters
You can transfer ancillaries from one family member to another by dragging the ancillary icon to the icon of another family member, given that they are in the same army/city. That means that you can give to one general "famous warrior", "armourer", "doctor", "herbalist" ancillaries and stack them, vastly improving the quality of that general. This also works with negative ancillaries: move them to very old family members or to those that don't gain penalties from them (e.g. a negative management ancillary to a field general).

Useless characters: If there is a family member or character that you really want to see gone, put him/them on a smallest possible fleet, and send it to be destroyed by pirates. Do this only if there is nothing else for them to do, but remember, FM bodyguard is usually one of the better troop types you have at your disposal.

Druidry:
Druid skills are fairly hard to obtain but they can enable Celtic generals to become very powerful. Temples are crucial for improving the odds of receiving druidic improvements, the higher level the temple, the higher level druidry can be attained. Stone temples of Tanaris, Cernunnos, Sucellos, and Andraste all help greatly to bestow druidical bonuses. Seventh level druidry is extremely hard to obtain but is perhaps the most powerful general bonus in EB bestowing something like +2 hitpoints, +2 morale, +2 command, greatly improved healing (something on the order of 45%) and an influence bonus. To get the best chance of receiving strong druid generals, build level four druidical temples all over Gaul and Britain, put all young FMs through the Ynys Mon education in Britain, and station them all over Gaul after completing Ynys Mon.

Tactics (battle map)
Deploying archers in rows 3 or less deep supposedly makes them more effective at range.

Watch how your cavalry uses their spears:
- If they use it overhand (like Equites Romani), they cannot charge effectively no matter what their charge value says. They can still be good in mêlée, though.
- If they have underhand lances or spears (like Hetairoi), watch when they charge to see if they are lowering their weapons or not. If you charge from too close a range they will not lower their weapons and cannot charge effectively. This happened in vanilla too, I think, but there cavalry crushed anything regardless.

Take your time with battles. Units don't die nearly as quickly as in vanilla and won't be routing immediately either (caveat: If heavy cavalry charges or falxes are involved they still die. If naked troops or ambushes are involved they'll still rout) so with most factions you can safely let your battle-line hold and fight for a few minutes whilst you wait for a good outflanking opportunity or for the enemy to commit their reserves before you expose your cavalry. If you rush this, chances are your flankers will get outflanked in turn and casualties will be higher.

Sniping heavy cavalry: Slingers are great against most enemy bodyguard cavalry. They're much better than in vanilla in general because they're armour piercing.
This is not only because of the armour piercing capabilities of the slingers (which foils the heavy cavalry's greatest strength), but also because the most heavy cavalry units don't use shields (because their lances are two-handed) and shields are the best protection against missiles there is.

Missile troops are quite effective against the right targets, but they will not massacre everything like they do in some other mods. When facing armoured troops with large shields like hoplites and especially falanxes, do not waste your ammo by shooting at their front. Javelins in particular are much better aimed at the rear of the enemy by your flankers.
- Conversely, if the enemy has a lot of missile troops it is relatively safe to just march your phalanx right up their throats. The AI usually won't even try to shoot pikemen with phalanx on. This also works with a classical hoplite phalanx. The enemy will exhaust their missiles but inflict negligible casualties, making life easier for your cavalry and flankers.

Horse archers are highly vulnerable in woods and will perform sub par. However, they rule the steppes. Bear that in mind when tackling steppe factions.

Units performing Cantabrian circle are less vulnerable to missile attack, but will tire faster. They also get caught more easily by cavalry.

Do not waste missiles shooting incoming enemies, shoot from the flanks or back. Unless they are unarmored or shieldless.

Things overhand spear cavalry are good at are:
-poking at other horses
-chopping other horses up with their secondary
-not overly expensive
-poking at people's back as they run, quickly (fast animation)
-chopping at people's back for repeated short intervals.

If you want to partly blunt a cavalry attack from the front, and you only have an infantry unit, thin your line.

Never attack with cavalry from the front, particularly against stubborn and fresh soldiers.

Make your archers a foot version of mobile shock units: i.e., make sure they continuously move around, looking for gaps in the enemy lines to shoot at.

If you are outnumbered as a Saba general, but have experienced troops, use your mobility: try to isolate enemy units, or slow them down so you can mangle them and maul them peace-meal.

Once the enemy line is broken, if you are using a phalanx in a wooded area, break you phalanxes up-phalanxes aren't as effective in thick woods.

Advantageous battleground: Look for "abattis" terrain. this is terrain like rocky escarpments, thick bushes or trees. these places ought to be in front of you, and you ought to use it on the defensive. they act to mangle, slow, and break up the areas.

Skirmishing/Guerrilla: Have small "freikorps" units ahead of your army, whose sole task ought to the disruption, mangling, and slowing the enemy.

Defending against cavalry: Infantry arranged in deep blocks are less susceptible to breaking under a cavalry charge. This might be crucial when fighting against a cavalry-heavy force.

Envelopment with infantry units: With a thin phalanx line, you pin more units which (when both armies have the same size) enables you to spare more (or some at all) units to flank and surround the enemy line. Flanking and surrounding causes more damage quicker with less losses than a deeper line phalanx. The only real prerequisite is a good general, so that your center doesn't rout. And couple of suggestions for flanking infantry: Thraikioi peltasts, Drapanai, every falcata/kopis/longsword/axe wielding infantry, as they tend to give much better results than "regular" infantry, without high lethality of AP attribute. Frontally, spears, pikes, shortswords. Ofcourse, they are all more effective when striking from back or flanks, but for maximum results, use the units previously mentioned.

If playing without time limit, if given opportunity, rest your troops whenever possible. Even when exhausted, by waiting for long enough, they will get back to fresh/warmed up, and their fighting ability raises significantly. This goes for all troops.

Saba tactics: they can defeat using standard units (arabian archer spearmen for me) equal number seleucid and ptolemic armies fairly regularly. Because they are made up of light units you can use your speed to ensure a local numerical superiority and decent numbers to fully surround isolated and semi isolated units. Also great for chasing down foot routers as they are sightly faster than most of the heavier units.

The effect of scary infantry units doesn't stack, so one scary infantry unit in an area of the battlefield is just as good as 2-3 for the fear effect. However, the scary infantry effect will stack with different types of scary effects, like fire arrows, chariots, and elephants.

Always try to have at least one squad of light cavalry to pursue fleeing enemy, since your heavy cav will usually be too tired to do this effectively.

You can widen/narrow down a unit/formation by pressing - or +.

Bridges: For many factions, it's a good idea to line up your formation in this way: \ __/ around the bridge exit. This gives the enemy units quite a lot of space to get through. Once the first few enemy units are out, your 6 units shower them with pila/javelins, which makes them rout almost immediately. Since they are pushed from the back by their other units, they normally try to rout through your units and get killed in the process. The incoming enemy units normally attack your units directly in front of them (which you should put in "guard" mode, to avoid them pursuing routers). Then you can just slaughter them by using your units on the flanks to attack and surround them from the sides.

Strategy (campaign map)
Although this is probably a given, place forts at strategic locations i.e. after or between bridges. It's surprising, a fort manned with 1-2 units can sometimes buy you 3 turns of time to recall forces and strengthen your defence.
Build forts in mountain passes, on hills, and before bridges. the more the area forms a choke-point, the better.

Anti-piracy measures: Fleets of three to six ship units do miracles against pirate fleets. Even Suebi fleets usually don't need to be bigger than six units (though they should be upgraded with a blacksmith and always retrained before combat deployment).
Use Covered Liburnes or Trieremiolai when available.

Ambushes makes miracle. Use them, do not despise them, you can beat a far superior enemy with the element of fear and surprise.

The Carthage AI army in sicliy always hides near Lilibeo in the forests right next to it.

Fleets: Ships cost an enormous amount of money in upkeep in EB, and only the ultra-rich civilised factions can afford them. When starting a new campaign, the only reasons you should have a ship is to immediately ship troops or a diplomat somewhere, or to immediately fight an enemy fleet. Otherwise, disband all your ships on the first turn of the campaign.

When playing as an Eastern hellenic faction - Arche Seleukeia and Baktria - don't underestimate the tactical potential your Iranian 'auxiliaries' have to offer - especially Nîzagân-î Êrânshahr (Persian Archer-Spearmen), which double as effective missile troops and cheap impromtu 'lineholders' and Tabargânê Êrânshahr (Eastern Axemen), which combine superior skirmishing capabilities with armor-piercing axes.
- Generally follow Hax' advice: '[...]Use whatever the land gives you; there are great units available in Iran and the steppes' - don't build 'factional-units-only' armies, but utilize the diversity of EB's many regional and mercenary units - it's much more effective (and much more fun).

Always investigate your regional troop options. For example Balaeric slingers, Cretan archers, Numidian cavalry, Indian/Persian archers, Belgic heavy cavalry, Iberian scutarii and British druids make for excellent troops when employed correctly.

Do not build roads on your borders if you don't intend to expand that way.
For example if you play as Carthage and leave Lepki a costal town the Ptolemaioi won't attack you, or it will take them a long time to get there...
Building roads at the beginning of your Casse campaign will cause the (otherwise "neutral") Eleutheroi to attack you.

The diplomatic A.I. is programmed to hate the player, regardless of how much this might damage them. For example: declaring war on a beleaguered faction will not encourage their enemies to like you. In fact, most likely they will make peace with your target.

We don't know how the diplomatic A.I. works in R:TW, but in M2:TW relations will decay automatically if there are no positive interactions; and this is worse at higher difficulty levels. It may also work this way in R:TW, as by paying neighbouring factions a regular but small tribute (200 mnai per turn) they are less inclined to attack you, more inclined to sign peace if their initial attack fails, and even make allies somewhat trustworthy.

Better idea yet - leave those garrisons where they are and offer the settlements to Baktria as a gift, along with a small sum of money or map information. For some reason, the AI only accepts this if the garrison is in place and not roaming around the province. If Baktria accepts, your garrisons will pull out automatically.

Rebel "armies" that spawn on your territory are cutting your trade income, destroy them as quickly as you can. And it can give your FMs experience and useful traits, as those armies rarely present serious threat and are generally easy to dispatch. Sometimes a few family members on autoresolve are enough, especially with nomadic factions who have very strong bodyguard cavalry.

By offering 1 million mnai to an enemy AI faction and demanding them to become a protectorate they always agree. The "cheat" is that a protectorate "always" gives all its money to the protector thus you get your money back the next turn.

"Deep Striking": To put the fear of God into the enemy, attack them in an area that is far from the front (preferably a city), with a large force. this will of course split enemy forces up, and cause massive damage to enemy cities.

Once you've conquered a city, if you think you cannot hold it, or do not need it, tear down all non-wonder infrastructure buildings possible: It's usually a good idea to also demolish government. This will cripple the enemy, and slow their progress.

Do not "exterminate" ("enslave" in EB) every city in the beginning of a campaign, only because it gives you more money at once. More inhabitants = more taxes = faster growing of the city = more money . For example, factions that start in underdevelped regions (like the Swêboz) should always "occupy" the surrounding territories of similar culture, instead of enslaving them. Bigger cities, especially those of different cultures, make for better enslavement targets.

"Expelling" the population of a conquered city is a great way to boost the population of your other territories, should you need it for upgrading your cities.

Playing with Aedui/Arverni: you have a useful possibility. You can rush into Britain and take Camulosadae by surprise, while most of the Casse armies are dragging themselves across the countryside doing nothing. Casse rarely blitz, and are fairly slow in most campaigns, so by taking Camulosadae, you can get rid of them quite quickly early on.

The city of Taras is an army maker for most factions. You have acces to a wide selection of excellent troops such as samnite HI, samnite spearmen, classical hoplites, bruttian infantry and so on. But that is not the only useful thing, it is positioned in such way as to provide a stepping stone to invading Greece/Balkans/Italy/Sicily.

Use bridges to your advantage. They are easily defendable and can safely secure your empire in the beginning when the budget is tight.
This works best with factions who can employ phalangites but spearmen would work as well, only not as effective. Usually two units of phalangitai can block a bridge to the point where it is impossible for the opponent to break through, unless he is attacking with massive bodyguard or cataphract cavalry. In that case have some AP units close by to counter this menace. In general: position your units in a triangular position, this will allow two units to form a narrowing path that will efficently cut down the enemy.
- This also works pretty well in city defenses.
- Especially factions like Pontos or Baktria profit immensely from this tactic and especially for Pontos this is a life-safer. If you take Mazaka in the first turn, deploy some phalangites and some archers/skirmisher or cavalry to hunt down fleeing enemies at the bridge south of Mazaka. With that strategy you will be able to kill everything AS is throwing at you and allows you to expand safely into Anatolia.
- Works just as fine with Horse Archers, or for that fact, any missile based army. This strategy is tremendously useful when deployed within the enemy teritory in a defensive-offensive way, because when they see a small army just standing arround, they will attack, and die. But beware: attune your troops to the nature of the enemy, meaning that it's not quite smart to deploy phalanxes on a bridge or crossing and expect that Saka will ram itself upon sarissae.

Don't fight factions on the steppes in the normal way with phalanx or other infantry based armies. Avoid the enemy armies entirerly and just charge for their towns. Attacking towns without walls defended only by horses is easy. If you are attacked on the campaign map you have 2 options depending on how much you like to exploit the game. Either draw your armies up defensively against any corner and just wait out the timer or if you want to be more realistic just sit on the highest hill and wait for them to back off at the end of time. Probably also a good idea to bring only heavily armoured units if you have them.

If you are attacked by overwhelming odds, do not use the retreat button on the battle pop-up. Instead, enter tactical combat. Once the battle loads, order all your troops to to withdraw by clicking the white flag button. Your troops will leave the field before a single blow is exchanged and the battle ends with 0 losses on each side. Your "defeated" army now retreats up to a full move towards the nearest friendly town or ship or something.
- Why do this? If you select the retreat button on the battle popup screen, your army will retreat only a few paces on the strategy map, and if the enemy has enough movement left they will attack you again. And when your army has retreated in this way they cannot withdraw on the tactical map anymore, and indeed you will lose all your men should you be defeated. Much better to retreat farther and make sure your men are safe to fight another day.

Healing and Immortals:
Casualties are healed after a battle in order of first to last: the first cohorts that suffered casualties get priority of healing, while the last to enter combat and take casualties receive little to no healing. As long as a general has a quality healer like a druidic surgeon or the like, it can enable one to create units of "immortals" by deliberately subjecting select cohorts to suffer casualties first, and thereby receive priority of healing after battle. Some quality strategies include fast moving long range skirmishers like celtic slingers: station them a little in front of the battleline, let them skirmish as much as possible, if they get caught and suffer losses, advance the infantry line and cut the enemy down, either way the slingers deal good damage and heal whatever losses they suffer after battle since they took the first casualties. It is funny in this way to see Celtic slinger cohorts get repeatedly cut down, and miraculously healed in full, battle after battle, gaining chevrons steadily. Another approach involves tough elite infantry like gaesatae, Germanic bodyguards, hypaspists/solduros and the like, have them spearhead the attack and receive enemy javelin volleys, whatever damage they sustain tends to get healed after the battle is over since they took casualties first. This approach is extremely strong with gaesatae, enabling them to gain many chevrons and fully heal, becoming extremely powerful.

When conquering an enemy town, make sure that you destroy any barracks that you cannot use (see the building descriptions). This provides you with some instant income, and also prevents enemy from recruiting new troops if he retakes the city.

Blitzing: at the beginning of your Campaign, use all of your resources to train as much cheap troops as you can. E.g.: Aedui, you start with 5000mnai. Full up you recruitment queue with Lugoae and Iaosatae, and they will train in the next 4 - 5 turns, respectively, regardless to your financial debt.

If you want to build a militarist empire and you want some blitzing war you have 2 logical options depen on your patience:
1- If you are patient enough always build level 1 & 2 local MICs. Your low tier troops are most likely levies who are cheap to recruit that may allow you numeric superiority the only problem is that you need population enhancing temples and other building and you should never exterminate conquered cities use exile.
2- If you are in a hurry and your native levies are hard to use against endless stacks of elites of your enemies, forget about recruiting hire mercenaries. That means you need money ... a lot of money and a lot of inevitable exterminations........

Economy and Infrastructure
Economy: The hardest aspect of EB. When starting any new campaign, immediately ramp up taxes as high as possible in every town you possess - if the public order face turns blue, you've raised taxes too high. Green or yellow face is OK.

Paved roads make for awesome revenue, very likely the most cost-efficient building in EB. Build them as soon as you can and whenever possible, unless there are strategic concerns (see above).

Mining income for EB, as per province:
1 mining site - 600 mnai basic mines, 1500 mnai upgraded
2 mining sites - 1200 mnai basic mines, 3000 mnai upgraded
3 mining sites - 1800 mnai basic mines, 4500 mnai upgraded

What Government Building to build in newly-captured towns (Civilised Factions): Military Occupation first, as quickly as you can. Then, either Type III or Type IV Government to start with. Type III if you want to put your own family member in there as town governor, Type IV if you don't (you'll cause unrest if you put a family member in a town with a Type IV government). Both government types are cheap and quick to build, both types allow you to recruit basic units if you have the barracks for it, and both types can be destroyed later and replaced with Type II or Type I, once you've got money to burn.

Build Order: What to build in your towns to get the most money as quickly as possible: Road, Farming, and Port in that order of priority. Then Sanitation and Healer to reduce squalor, and Trader/Market to boost income further.

If in serious financial situation (and desperate enough to turn to barbarism), look for your wonders. Some bring small bonuses, but present an actual last resort to your finances. For example: Tolosa lake (20000mnai) and Persepolis (10000mnai). Do not destroy experience bringing monuments, like Kogainon.

Temples and building boni:
1 - The +morale bonus of buildings and wonders doesn't work. Thus +morale temples (unless they give a +experience bonus at the end, or some other significant boni) are inferior to other temples.
2 - Generally, the best temple is the one that gives the most +law, or in some way increases the combat potential of your army.
3 - Some wonders give you no bonus (or a +morale bonus......) and you're better off destroying them unless you want it for roleplay benefit.

In the beginning of the game spam troop buildings in the first few turns OR queue up economy buildings, the strategy differs depending on faction.
- For example, the Casse start out at peace with the Eleutheroi, so you might as well just disband most of your army (you'll need a few units in case the Eleutheroi attack you) and spam economic buildings, factions like Carthage that already start out with huge armies and don't have a serious threat looming can probably be fine with spamming economy and just using your current army.

stratigos vasilios

08-25-2010, 15:56

Although this is probably a given, place forts at strategic locations i.e. after or between bridges. It's surprising, a fort manned with 1-2 units can sometimes buy you 3 turns of time to recall forces and strengthen your defence.

Duguntz

08-25-2010, 16:10

Ambushes makes miracle. Use them, do not despise them, you can beat a far superior ennemy with the element of fear and surprise

Marcus Darkstar

08-25-2010, 19:12

Ambushes makes miracle. Use them, do not despise them, you can beat a far superior ennemy with the element of fear and surprise

lol this comment wants me to make a ambush happen using a team of elephants....

Suprise Elephant Charge to the Rear!

athanaric

08-25-2010, 19:20

lol this comment wants me to make a ambush happen using a team of elephants....

Suprise Elephant Charge to the Rear!
You can't, sadly. Elephants can't hide.

Basileus_ton_Basileon

08-25-2010, 19:21

I don't think elephants can hide in forests.

Marcus Darkstar

08-25-2010, 19:22

You can't, sadly. Elephants can't hide.

Frak hmm wait no thats not true while they cant hide in the battle map a army with elephants can hide on the campaign map. So theortically you can do a army ambush with a army with elephants. I know this since the Carthage AI army in sicliy always hides near Lilibeo in the forests right next to it in alot of my campaigns.

Frak hmm wait no thats not true while they cant hide in the battle map a army with elephants can hide on the campaign map. So theortically you can do a army ambush with a army with elephants. I know this since the Carthage AI army in sicliy always hides near Lilibeo in the forests right next to it in alot of my campaigns.

I dont have a game readily available to test this theory but its now on my to do list for this week.

Duguntz

08-25-2010, 20:00

they can hide on the campaing map? I didn't know as i usualy play with sweboz... HAHAHA i imagine the face of the ennemy seeing a bunch of asian elephant sprigning from the forest! EPIC!

Megas Methuselah

08-26-2010, 01:37

Lmfao, omg guys, that's awesome. Post some screenies when you get around to doing it, ok?

Valion

08-26-2010, 01:50

How Can i make my cavalry use their secondary weapon? :)

Basileus_ton_Basileon

08-26-2010, 02:35

press and hold alt when making the attack command.

Megas Methuselah

08-26-2010, 02:53

press and hold alt when making the attack command.

Spot on, brotha.

HopliteElite

08-26-2010, 05:22

Always leave a spy in any city that that is close to/bordering enemy or neutral factions. Your spy will often counteract enemy/neutral spies by ejecting him at the beginning of a round and he will also make that city harder for enemy/neutral spies to break into. An effective and cheap tactic (350 mnai a month per spy is nothing to keep your cities from revolting) to protect your cities when you are expanding halfway across the world from your homeland.

NoHelmet

08-26-2010, 08:57

Randal

08-26-2010, 10:10

Nice thread. Here's a few I remember I had some difficulty figuring out:

- Watch how your cavalry uses their spears. If they use it overhand, they cannot charge effectively no matter what their charge value says. They can still be good in mêlée, though.

- If they have underhand lances or spears, watch when they charge to see if they are lowering their weapons or not. If you charge from too close a range they will not lower their weapons and cannot charge effectively. This happened in vanilla too, I think, but there cavalry crushed anything regardless.

- Take your time with battles. Units don't die nearly as quickly as in vanilla and won't be routing immediately either (caveat: If heavy cavalry charges or falxes are involved they still die. If naked troops or ambushes are involved they'll still rout) so with most factions you can safely let your battle-line hold and fight for a few minutes whilst you wait for a good outflanking opportunity or for the enemy to commit their reserves before you expose your cavalry. If you rush this, chances are your flankers will get outflanked in turn and casualties will be higher.

- Slingers are great against most enemy bodyguard cavalry. They're much better than in vanilla in general because they're armour piercing.

- Missile troops are quite effective against the right targets, but they will not massacre everything like they do in some other mods. When facing armoured troops with large shields like hoplites and especially falanxes, do not waste your ammo by shooting at their front. Javelins in particular are much better aimed at the rear of the enemy by your flankers.

- Conversely, if the enemy has a lot of missile troops it is relatively safe to just march your phalanx right up their throats. The AI usually won't even try to shoot pikemen with phalanx on. This also works with a classical hoplite phalanx. The enemy will exhaust their missiles but inflict negligible casualties, making life easier for your cavalry and flankers.

Titus Marcellus Scato

08-26-2010, 14:11

Economy: The hardest aspect of EB. When starting any new campaign, immediately ramp up taxes as high as possible in every town you possess - if the public order face turns blue, you've raised taxes too high. Green or yellow face is OK.

Fleets: Ships cost an enormous amount of money in upkeep in EB, and only the ultra-rich civilised factions can afford them. When starting a new campaign, the only reasons you should have a ship is to immediately ship troops or a diplomat somewhere, or to immediately fight an enemy fleet. Otherwise, disband all your ships on the first turn of the campaign.

Elephants: Also cost enormous amounts of money in upkeep, if you have them at the beginning (Carthage or Epirus) use them ASAP in battles or disband them.

Cavalry: Expensive in EB, though a lot less so than elephants. Again, use them up in battles as soon as you can in order to save money for town-building.

What Government Building to build in newly-captured towns (Civilised Factions): Military Occupation first, as quickly as you can. Then, either Type III or Type IV Government to start with. Type III if you want to put your own family member in there as town governor, Type IV if you don't (you'll cause unrest if you put a family member in a town with a Type IV government). Both goverment types are cheap and quick to build, both types allow you to recruit basic units if you have the barracks for it, and both types can be destroyed later and replaced with Type II or Type I, once you've got money to burn.

What to build in your towns to get the most money as quickly as possible: Road, Farming, and Port in that order of priority. Then Sanitation and Healer to reduce squalor, and Trader/Market to boost income further.

Lvcretivs

08-26-2010, 18:48

When playing as an Eastern hellenic faction - Arche Seleukeia and Baktria - don't underestimate the tactical potential your Iranian 'auxiliaries' have to offer - especially Nîzagân-î Êrânshahr (Persian Archer-Spearmen), which double as effective missile troops and cheap impromtu 'lineholders' and Tabargânê Êrânshahr (Eastern Axemen), which combine superior skirmishing capabilities with armor-piercing axes.

Generally follow Hax' advice: '[...]Use whatever the land gives you; there are great units available in Iran and the steppes' (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?125306-Arche-Seleukeia-A-Guide-by-with-Hax) - don't build 'factional-units-only' armies, but utilize the diversity of EB's many regional and mercenary units - it's much more effective (and much more fun).

Arjos

08-26-2010, 18:59

Do not build roads on your borders if you don't intend to expand that way...
For example if you play as Carthage and leave Lepki a costal town the Ptolemaioi won't attack you, or it will take them a long time to get there...

Atraphoenix

08-27-2010, 08:26

Horse archers in the woods certain death.....

Infantry on the steppes certain death...........

Vaginacles

08-27-2010, 08:35

Horse archers in the woods certain death.....

Infantry on the steppes certain death...........

unless u got some cretan archers ;)

Rahwana

08-27-2010, 08:43

never ever use Roman legions to absorb cataphract charges

use pantodapoi instead

Jebivjetar

08-27-2010, 08:52

Units performing Cantabrian circle are less venerable to missile attack.

At least i have that impression :P

Ibn-Khaldun

08-27-2010, 09:33

Units in Cantabrian circle tire faster.

Cute Wolf

08-27-2010, 09:54

quality generally beats quantity, but when it comes to a large margin, that will be hopeless

300 Spartans are certainly no match for 4000 pantodapoi in EB

NoHelmet

08-27-2010, 15:31

Do not waste missiles shooting incoming enemies, shoot from the flanks or back. Unless they are unarmored or shieldless.

Revoltie

08-27-2010, 18:24

Randal

08-27-2010, 18:33

XSamatan

08-27-2010, 18:51

@athanaric:
Maybe you want to edit your first post so you can include some of the advices given here? The informations would be at one place IMO for newcomers a good thing.

XSamatan

Basileus_ton_Basileon

08-27-2010, 21:39

I mean that unlike underhand spears or two-handed underhand lancers they do not lower their weapons to instantly kill many troops on the charge, but just run at the enemy and start stabbing down.

Are you certain you mean overhand spear cavalry? The ones that use their spears like Classical Hoplites? Not underhand lancers, the ones that lower their weapons and charge the enemy with their weapons extended?

If you do mean that overhand spear cavalry like Roman Equites are the best cavalry in the game, I would ask you to elaborate since I am under the impression they are widely regarded as being effective in far fewer circumstances.

Well to be honest, overhand spear cavalry are pretty good in everything -but- shock... Most people find them bad because they mainly use cavalry for shock roles....

Things overhand spear cavalry are good at are:
-poking at other horses
-chopping other horses up with their secondary
-not overly expensive
-poking at people's back as they run, quickly (fast animation)
-chopping at people's back for repeated short intervals

I'm not saying they're the best thing in the world, but IMO they're not as useless as some people would believe...

Lazy O

08-28-2010, 03:28

No armor and lots of arrows dont mix very well

Rahwana

08-28-2010, 06:27

No armor and lots of arrows dont mix very well

it mix very well when you have the arrows and your enemies have no armour

Brennus

08-28-2010, 06:40

Always investigate your regional troop options. For example Balaeric slingers, Cretan archers, Numidian cavalry, Indian/Persian archers, Belgic heavy cavalry, Iberian scutarii and British druids make for excellent troops when employed correctly.

Ludens

08-28-2010, 12:03

NoHelmet

08-28-2010, 19:20

The diplomatic A.I. is programmed to hate the player, regardless of how much this might damage them. For example: declaring war on a beleaguered faction will not encourage their enemies to like you. In fact, most likely they will make peace with your target.

We don't know how the diplomatic A.I. works in R:TW, but in M2:TW relations will decay automatically if there are no positive interactions; and this is worse at higher difficulty levels. I believe it also works this way in R:TW, as by paying neighbouring factions a regular but small tribute (200 mnai per turn) I find that they are less inclined to attack me, more inclined to sign peace if their initial attack fails, and even make allies somewhat trustworthy.
Indeed, but even then, i think it is hardcoded that AI strikes you from everywhere once you become too powerful, for the sake of an interesting campaign. In my recent campaign with Aedui i kept Lusotanan satisfied with a steady influx of money, as you said, around 200mnai per turn, and again they betrayed me once i destroyed sweboz and epeiros and made it No. 1 in overall statistics.
One more thing, not related to diplomacy: Rebel "armies" that spawn on your territory are cutting your trade income, destroy them as quickly as you can. And it can give your FMs experience and useful traits, as those armies rarely present serious threat and are generally easy to dispatch.

Revoltie

08-29-2010, 00:39

I mean that unlike underhand spears or two-handed underhand lancers they do not lower their weapons to instantly kill many troops on the charge, but just run at the enemy and start stabbing down.

Are you certain you mean overhand spear cavalry? The ones that use their spears like Classical Hoplites? Not underhand lancers, the ones that lower their weapons and charge the enemy with their weapons extended?

If you do mean that overhand spear cavalry like Roman Equites are the best cavalry in the game, I would ask you to elaborate since I am under the impression they are widely regarded as being effective in far fewer circumstances.

What I mean is like, that mounted Strategou and the Heitaroi, they use their spears overhead.
If you are talking about the guys that use both spears, javelins and a hoplon on a horse, yeah, they are not good for much, they do have an anti-cav and support role, but it is meh.

Ludens

08-29-2010, 10:52

Indeed, but even then, i think it is hardcoded that AI strikes you from everywhere once you become too powerful, for the sake of an interesting campaign.

This was certainly the case in M1:TW, so there presumably is a similar mechanism in R:TW. Off course, because the basic diplomatic A.I. is so rabid already, it's hard to notice the difference.

Revoltie

08-29-2010, 14:55

Indeed, I gave up my last HRE campaign on M2:TW because I was a t war in four different fronts, and even as I was holding the line, that was just too much for me at some point.

Iraklis

08-29-2010, 20:27

Ok... here it goes...
For those with endless tresury who like making A.I. kiss there... erm... boots. By offering 1 million mnai and demand to make them a protectorate they always aggree. The "cheat" is that a protectorate "always" gives all its money to the protector thus you get your money back the next turn. (I have used it extensively on my last 2 games to either roleplay or to remove anoying warring with no actual point).

Revoltie

08-29-2010, 21:20

NoHelmet

08-29-2010, 22:28

If you are playing an hellenic nation, always have your phalanxes deep, I like playing them in 12 men deep lines, that is almost a square, usually 12 men deep and 20 men wide with the 240 phalanx takes virtually no casualties in a hand-to-hand frontal fight with anything, not even other phalanxes.

in my not so little experience in CAMPAIGN, this is wrong, at least in some cases. Case 1 - Defence: If properly flanked, you can arrange them in three-men deep line, and again take little casualties. If you do this, you can achieve unbreakable center with more troops to tend to the flanks and quickly surround the enemy. Ofcourse, be sure not to leave gaps between two phalanx squads and press guard mode, btw. Case 2 - offence: arrange your army just like in case1, and group them. move the group towards the enemy. Then replicate scenario 1.
Trust me, i have done that with Makedonia and Ptolemaioi many, MANY times. Against AS, Romaioi, pretty much everybody.
Maintain a base core of 3-4 phalangitai of ANY type, and modify the rest of the army to the nature of the enemy. And as always, cavalry superiority is strongly desirable. For that i advice the use of what i like to call "family picnic". Bring as many FMs as you can, as they are usually the strongest and most easily accesible cavalry at your disposal.

Revoltie

08-30-2010, 04:30

Cute Wolf

08-30-2010, 06:31

3 men deep phalangitai formations are very useful in one particular place : STEPPE!!!

They are quite useful, if you have your own light cavalry to lure the stupid AI cavalry formations to impale themself on your thin wall of spears... (mercenary HA Rocks!)

Ibrahim

08-30-2010, 07:37

in my experience:

-if you want to partly blunt a cavalry attack from the front, and you only have an infantry unit, thin your line.
-never attack with cavalry from the front, particularly against stubborn and fresh soldiers.
-make your archers a foot version of mobile shock units: what I mean is, make sure they continuously move around, looking for gaps in the enemy lines to shoot at.
-if you are outnumbered as a Saba general, but have experienced troops, use your mobility: try to isolate enemy units, or slow them down so you can mangle them and maul them peace-meal.
-Ethiopian/Nubian soldiers rock!
-once the enemy line is broken, if you are using a phalanx in a wooded area, break you phalanxes up-phalanxes aren't as effective in thick woods.
-look for "abattis" terrain. this is terrain like rocky escarpments, thick bushes or trees. these places ought to be in front of you, and you ought to use it on the defensive. they act to mangle, slow, and break up the areas.
-have small "freikorps" units ahead of your army, whose sole task ought to the disruption, mangling, and slowing the enemy.
-to put the fear of God into the enemy, attack them in an area that is far from the front(preferably a city), with a large force. this will of course split enemy forces up, and cause massive damage to enemy cities.
-once you've conquered a city, if you think you cannot hold it, or do not need it, tear down all non-wonder infrastructure buildings possible: I tend to also demolish government. this will cripple the enemy, and slow their progress.
-build forts in mountain passes, on hills, and before bridges. the more the area forms a choke-point, the better.

these items I hope are as useful to the new players as they are to me.

NoHelmet

08-30-2010, 09:54

You should really use some Thureophoroi to stop flankings.
It just happens that I like to use a 6 unit line of phalanxes, and from 4 to 6 units of Thureophoroi to stop flanking, and then I charge with my horses and the AI usually routs before even properly attacking my guys, so it works for me in most cases, I'd like to hear you though.
I'm not a fan of using FMs, simply because they are far too important as governors, use Prodromoi instead in the successors, FM are something for early game only.
And a 3 men deep unit of phalanx is virtually useless. I clearly misunderstood what you meant, can you explain me the 3 men deep phalanx?
Well, first thing, three men deep, meaning that only three men present pikes against the enemy, the unit is stretched to the max (nearly), and second thing, by proper flanking i meant that you have YOUR flanks sexured, and yes, thurophoroi, as you said, are perfect for that role. Phalanx in three men depth wont kill much enemy, but then again, they are not meant to. And by puttung three or four squads in such stretched formation will provide you the opportunity for cheaper and more effective army.And give you more slots for other unit types, such as slingers. And i mentioned one more thing on some other thread, FMs are far too often worthless pieces of #$%, they will actually decrease your income, and good only for battlefield roles as second (third, fourth, fifth) in command meaning charge, charge, and charge again. They are tougher than prodromoi, way more tougher, and could be used to quickly dispatch enemy general. Now, that is my point of view, and by no means the best, but i ussualy end up with a maximum of 5% losses, with enemy ussualy goes "enemy army routs"

Ca Putt

08-30-2010, 12:34

with a thin phalanx line, you pin more units which (when both armies have the same size) enables you to spare more(or some at all) units to flank and surround the enemy line. flanking and surrounding causes more damage quicker with less losses than a deeper line phalanx line especially as you need more troops (as you aim towards having more troops on the same line width) for your mainline which leaves you less flankers than the enemy has, if the AI would be less stupid it'd beat your inferior flankers and flank you, just like the Carthagians at Cannae, they beat the inferior roman cavalry and thus had all the surplus troops to give the romans a rectal spanking. additional to hannibal's basic flanking manouver.

oh and

-if you are outnumbered as a Saba general, but have experienced troops, use your mobility: try to isolate enemy units, or slow them down so you can mangle them and maul them peace-meal. workes with almost every time your army is even remotely more mobile and does not include artillery and does not rely on phalanxes, jesus it even works with hoplitai haploi, sometimes^^

NoHelmet

08-30-2010, 13:25

with a thin phalanx line, you pin more units which (when both armies have the same size) enables you to spare more(or some at all) units to flank and surround the enemy line. flanking and surrounding causes more damage quicker with less losses than a deeper line phalanx line especially as you need more troops (as you aim towards having more troops on the same line width) for your mainline which leaves you less flankers than the enemy has, if the AI would be less stupid it'd beat your inferior flankers and flank you, just like the Carthagians at Cannae, they beat the inferior roman cavalry and thus had all the surplus troops to give the romans a rectal spanking. additional to hannibal's basic flanking manouver.

Precisely what i meant. You can emulate Cannae with pretty much every faction. Only real prerequisite is a good general, so that your center doesn't rout. And couple of suggestions for flanking infantry: Thraikioi peltasts, Drapanai, every falcata/kopis/longsword/axe wielding infantry, as they tend to give much better results than "regular" infantry, without high lethality of AP attribute. Frontally, spears, pikes, shortswords. Ofcourse, they are all more effective when striking from back or flanks, but for maximum results, use the units previously mentioned.

Revoltie

08-30-2010, 22:23

I see it, well, but wouldn't that kill too many troops before sucessfully flanking? It is a great defensive strategy though.

Randal

08-30-2010, 23:04

Disciplined troops in tight formation with guard mode on and not attacking take very few casualties holding the line. Sure, there'll be some attrition, but it's pretty minor if you use hoplites or similar.

Revoltie

08-30-2010, 23:36

I'll use that sometime, feels Hannibal.

Ibrahim

08-31-2010, 02:42

oh and workes with almost every time your army is even remotely more mobile and does not include artillery and does not rely on phalanxes, jesus it even works with hoplitai haploi, sometimes^^

well, that's true, but this is particularly important for Saba-I'd argue even more than the Casse- as unlike the Casse, the Saba are surrounded by much more powerful enemies (than even Gauls), but slower.

SwissBarbar

08-31-2010, 08:35

Do not exterminate every city in the beginning of a campaign, only because it gives you more money at once. More inhabitants = more taxes = faster growing of the city = more money

Duguntz

08-31-2010, 09:48

Do not exterminate every city in the beginning of a campaign, only because it gives you more money at once. More inhabitants = more taxes = faster growing of the city = more money

= faster revolt = pain in the ass = too much management = no satisfaction whatsoever to have beaten crushed totally annihilated your ennemy. plus destroy temples, every building that can be destroyed and force them in accepting your way of life or die... yeah... that's total victory...

NoHelmet

08-31-2010, 10:01

Do not exterminate every city in the beginning of a campaign, only because it gives you more money at once. More inhabitants = more taxes = faster growing of the city = more money

Not at the begining, and deffinitely not in proximity of your heartlands, but playing with any faction, once you get far enough, extermination is pretty much the only answer. As Duguntz said.

Lazy O

08-31-2010, 10:12

I say its useless to occupy. They rebel almost instanlty, cost you valuable men and more importantly time. And the reward in occupying comes VERY LATE , so unless yuore invanding italy and are content with occupying rhegion and sitting there for 10 years before moving on, be my guest

Luis Sera

08-31-2010, 11:17

Ca Putt

08-31-2010, 11:33

Precisely what i meant. You can emulate Cannae with pretty much every faction. Only real prerequisite is a good general, so that your center doesn't rout. And couple of suggestions for flanking infantry: Thraikioi peltasts, Drapanai, every falcata/kopis/longsword/axe wielding infantry, as they tend to give much better results than "regular" infantry, without high lethality of AP attribute. Frontally, spears, pikes, shortswords. Ofcourse, they are all more effective when striking from back or flanks, but for maximum results, use the units previously mentioned. :) +1 my intention was to underline your statement by other means than :
oh yeah he's right

as I'm no moderator I don't have that much authority.

well, that's true, but this is particularly important for Saba-I'd argue even more than the Casse- as unlike the Casse, the Saba are surrounded by much more powerful enemies (than even Gauls), but slower. true especially as the saba seldom have the opportunity to do differently when outnumbered as it's unlikely they outclass the enemy in armor, attack or lethality.
still it also is a vital strategy when fighting as nomads just on a different level especially as nomads are outnumbered practically all the time and outclass the opponent in about as many situations in mobility.

finaly i have to agree with nohelmet once again, occupation is the method of choice with the first few conquests or homeland res for most factions. controlling settlements right next to your capital with the same culture and a bad trait penalty in case of extingtion is nit that hard often you already have them in the green when conquering. most of the time(when i forgot what kind of person my fm is(too bad you dont have his char window opend next to the conquest window) ) i decide what to do with a settlement based on the public order indicator - only exterminate red faces. blue faces can be enslaved or occupied , lowering taxes takes care of that most of the time ;)
exept when i conquer the capital of a hated foe those can be exterminated^^ either way.

NoHelmet

08-31-2010, 11:42

Enslave is the best. It removes population from the city so order is easier to keep under control. BUT it also moves the population to 'safe' cities (your homelands) which allows for increased tax and slows the population drain on your capital which almost certainly will be generating most if not all of your troops, especially in the beginning

It doesn't move it to "safe" cities, but to those that have a governor, and yes, it is by some measures the best solution, as long as you are able to do so. But, if you want to blitz and leave cities absolutely save from dissorder, you have to exterminate to succeed.

Back to the thread. 1. Playing with Aedui/Arverni: you have a useful possibility. You can rush into Britain and take Camulosadae by surprise, while most of the Casse armies are dragging themselves across the countryside doing nothing. Casse rarely blitz, and are fairly slow in most campaigns, so by taking Camulosadae, you can get rid of them quite quickly early on. 2. Taras is an army maker for most factions. You have acces to a wide selection of excellent troops such as samnite HI, samnite spearmen, classical hoplites, bruttian infantry and so on. But that is not the only useful thing, it is positioned in such way as to provide a stepping stone to invading Greece/Balkans/Italy/Sicily. 3. If playing without time limit, if given opportunity, rest your troops whenever possible. Even when exhausted, by waiting for long enough, they will get back to fresh/warmed up, and their fighting ability raises significantly. This goes for all troops.

Ludens

08-31-2010, 20:02

For those with endless tresury who like making A.I. kiss there... erm... boots. By offering 1 million mnai and demand to make them a protectorate they always aggree. The "cheat" is that a protectorate "always" gives all its money to the protector thus you get your money back the next turn. (I have used it extensively on my last 2 games to either roleplay or to remove anoying warring with no actual point).

Keep in mind that the EB money script does not take protectorate status into account, so you'll get that money too and there is a risk that your protectorate will go bankrupt. Then again, protectorate factions often go inert anyway.

NoHelmet

08-31-2010, 23:54

You can transfer ancillaries from one family member to another by dragging the ancillary icon to the icon of another family member, given that they are in the same army/city. That means that you can give to one general "famous warrior", "armourer", "doctor", "herbalist" ancillaries and stack them, vastly improving the quality of that general.

Luis Sera

09-01-2010, 04:13

NoHelmet

09-01-2010, 09:50

Yes, and don't we all hate "Evil mother-in-law" ancillary type?

Blxz

09-02-2010, 05:07

@Nohelmet
Safe cities are those that often have a governor and quite often its your homelands to begin with which means that my post is accurate, moving population to cities where tax bonuses and recruitment pools benefit.
Also, the ancillaries tip is brilliant, i often have one star general with the best ancillaries i can obtain. When i retire him, i move him onto his successor so they can continue to benefit my best generals

Nothing at all to do with safe cities. NoHelmet was 100% right. If I put governors in all my 'unsafe' cities on the border then thats where the population will go. If I have every city ungovened then the population will just disappear.

As for the saba and their tactics, they can defeat using standard units (arabian archer spearmen for me) equal number seleucid and ptolemic armies fairly regularly. Because they are made up of light units you can use your speed to ensure a local numerical superiority and decent numbers to fully surround isolated and semi isolated units. Also great for chasing down foot routers as they are sightly faster than most of the heavier units. Saba are the arch-typical zerglings. Really one of my favourite factions. They get even more impressive if you start using actual unit choice tactics and start flanking with AP units like the red sea dudes. Not to mention the fact that nearly all of their troops have a ranged weapon of some sort.

WinsingtonIII

09-02-2010, 05:14

Not to mention the fact that nearly all of their troops have a ranged weapon of some sort.

Except the Red Sea Axemen unfortunately... I wish those guys had javs, but Arabian Light Infantry are one of my favorite skirmisher units in the game, so Saba certainly aren't lacking in that area in general.

athanaric

09-02-2010, 16:42

Well well well. Hardly any spam so far. Comrade Stalin is pleased.

I'm trying to keep up and update the first post. If there are suggestions as to how to organize the advice, feel free to post them.

WinsingtonIII

09-02-2010, 18:08

One thing that should be noted is that the effect of scary infantry units doesn't stack, so one scary infantry unit in an area of the battlefield is just as good as 2-3 for the fear effect. However, the scary infantry effect will stack with different types of scary effects, like fire arrows, chariots, and elephants.

Titus Marcellus Scato

09-02-2010, 18:21

So the best unit in EB would be an elephant-drawn chariot with archers shooting fire arrows out of it? Cool! <gets modding>

NoHelmet

09-02-2010, 19:05

So the best unit in EB would be an elephant-drawn chariot with archers shooting fire arrows out of it? Cool! <gets modding>

As long as the archers are naked.

Well well well. Hardly any spam so far. Comrade Stalin is pleased.

I'm trying to keep up and update the first post. If there are suggestions as to how to organize the advice, feel free to post them.

Well, perhaps you were right about moving the thread to the gameplay section, once it gets too big to be easily managed, but it is still very nice to see it as soon as the page opens...

Back to the topic: 1. If there is a family member or character that you really want to see gone, put him/them on a smallest possible fleet, and send it to be destroyed by pirates. Do this only if there is nothing else for them to do, but remember, FM bodyguard is ussualy one of the better troop types you have at your disposal.
2. Always try to have at least one squad of light cavalry to pursue fleeing enemy, since your heavy cav will usually be too tired to do this effectively.

panten

09-02-2010, 22:57

Don't think it has been mentioned yet so:

Bridges
Use bridges to your advantage. They are easily defendable and can safely secure your empire in the beginning when the budget is tight.
This works best with factions who can employ phalangites but spearmen would work as well, only not as effective. Usually two units of phalangitai can block a bridge to the point where it is impossible for the opponent to break through, unless he is attacking with massive bodyguard or cataphract cavalry. In that case have some AP units close by to counter this menace. In general: position your units in a triangular position, this will allow two units to form a narrowing path that will efficently cut down the enemy.
This also works pretty well in city defenses.

Especially factions like Pontos or Baktria profit immensely from this tactic and especially for Pontos this is a life-safer. If you take Mazaka in the first turn, deploy some phalangites and some archers/skirmisher or cavalry to hunt down fleeing enemies at the bridge south of Mazaka. With that strategy you will be able to kill everything AS is throwing at you and allows you to expand safely into Anatolia.

NoHelmet

09-02-2010, 23:27

panten

09-03-2010, 03:43

True, a good one. Used it myself a lot. Works just as fine with HA, or for that fact, any missile based army. One more thing, this strategy is tremendously useful when deployed within the enemy teritory in a deffensive-offensive way, because when they see a small army just standing arround, they will attack, and die. But beware: attune your troops to the nature of the enemy, meaning that it's not quite smart to deploy phalanxes on a bridge or crossing and expect that Saka will ram itself upon sarissae.

To be honest, I have never tried to defend a bridge with HA or a lot of missiles since they would eventually run out of ammo and with armored opponents this could well end in desaster, atleast for me. I usually deploy units that have staying power and are decent in killing the enemy and phalanxes are quite good at that even if casualties tend to be outrageous as soon as they face some heavier cavalry - but there are the AP troops to keep those in check. I like having missile troops/archers there too - but not just by themselves - they would get raped by the Cataphract/HA insanity I'm facing in my current AS campaign. Given that there are alot of rivers in the area it would be a shame not to use the tactic in an "defensive-offensive" way since it is really useful to fight off strong stacks with limited troops. Helped me to kill the majority of Baktria's cataphracts with acceptable losses.

Troop mixture is a good point though. My eastern front was a defensive mess for a long time due to logistics and lack of useful baracks. What I came down to using almost exclusively are Phalangitai Pantodapoi to pin down whatever unit I needed pinned down and to eat arrow showers, Persian archers to shot everything that moves, Dahae Riders to shot everything that moves a little faster as well as the more annoying troops in the back, Eastern Axemen as shock troops and Persian Spearmen as a more flexible unit but with their death rate being not very economic, I mostly use them defensively.
All in all these are not very expensive troops but they easily manage to kill off better equipped armies. Especially when you're struggling with income, a cheap levy army can do wonders if managed right and with Baktria and Parthia running wild, it is possible to defend cities with strong garrisons and have one or two offensive armies who are able to stand their ground against pretty much everything.

vladiator

09-03-2010, 04:53

Bridges
\ /
As Romani, when defending bridges I had lots of success arranging my formation in this way: \ _ _/ around the bridge exit. This gives the enemy units quite a lot of space to get through. Once the first few enemy units are out, my 6 units shower them with pillas/javelines, which makes them rout almost immediately. Since they are pushed from the back by their other units, they normally try to rout through my units and get killed in the process. The incoming enemy units normally attack my units directly in front of them (which I put in "guard" mode). Then I just slaughter them by using my units on the flanks to attack and surround them from the sides.

Usually I also have my other units standing around my first line of units -- this way they can also throw their missile weapons and pick up any routers who manage to get through my first line of defence.

I have not tried this tactics against Hellenic factions yet, but works wonders against Celtic factions.

PS For some reason, the formation is not shown correctly in this message. To describe it, it forms a kind of a square with 3 sides. :)

vladiator

09-03-2010, 04:58

Oh, and I only recently learned that you can widen/narrow down a unit/formation by pressing - or +! Bloody convenient!

Blxz

09-03-2010, 05:13

NoHelmet

09-03-2010, 15:36

More general advice than anything....

Don't fight factions on the steppes in the normal way with phalanx or other infantry based armies. Avoid the enemy armies entirerly and just charge for their towns. Attacking towns without walls defended only by horses is easy. If you are attacked on the campaign map you have 2 options depending on how much you like to exploit the game. Either draw your armies up defensively against any corner and just wait out the timer or if you want to be more realistic just sit on the highest hill and wait for them to back off at the end of time. Probably also a good idea to bring only heavily armoured units if you have them.

Yes, and fighting in the steppes requires some troops that are vital to your survival, especcialy those like Toxotai Syriakoi, Kretikoi and Bosphoran Archers, they are a necessity on the steppes, as they all have good range and armor (not to forget great caucasian archers, that are terrific, altough bit low-ranged). Parthian Archer-Spearmen are good, but lack armor and range, but have spears to repel cavalry. As said earlier, slingers are best used against enemy tanks. If you want, use meat shields that are useful (not only there) at town asssaults against nomads, the underestimated and often overlooked light troops like pantodapoi.

Atraphoenix

09-03-2010, 17:52

I hope you know how important the scouting parties are. It is not necassary to use your soldiers as scouts only your agents are very good scouts and you do not have to fight and lose your scout parties.

P.S. It took one of my full stack army to learn this lesson, that cost me 3 years to raise one but can you recruit experience? Hell no.... :-(
I hope your luck is better than me on learning this.
BTW you cannot recruit experienced soldiers but RETRAIN THEM :laugh4:
I use Alex for this to give AI some fair chance.

Randal

09-03-2010, 19:29

That reminds me of a good tip:

If you are attacked by overwhelming odds, do not use the retreat button on the battle pop-up. Instead, enter tactical combat. Once the battle loads, order all your troops to to withdraw by clicking the white flag button. Your troops will leave the field before a single blow is exchanged and the battle ends with 0 losses on each side. Your "defeated" army now retreats up to a full move towards the nearest friendly town or ship or something.

Why do this? If you select the retreat button on the battle popup screen, your army will retreat only a few paces on the strategy map, and if the enemy has enough movement left they will attack you again. And when your army has retreated in this way they cannot withdraw on the tactical map anymore, and indeed you will lose all your men should you be defeated. Much better to retreat farther and make sure your men are safe to fight another day.

(This probably is one of the rare few tricks I learned from the AI. They do this sometimes when they decide halfway through a battle that you outnumber them after all.)

Edit: BTW, you -can- recruit experience if you play Dacians. Silver-chevroned units in fact. Ouch.

Lazy O

09-04-2010, 13:00

Sarmiszegethusa to be precise

Moros

09-04-2010, 15:57

You should add to the angent section that keeping Diplomats in your settlements, especially those without governor, reduce the chances of getting your settlements bribed.

Lysimachos

09-04-2010, 16:51

I have one addition and one correction.

In the unit section there is a tip regarding the effectiveness of slingers against heavy cavalry. Perhaps you could add that this is not only because of the armour piercing capabilities of the slingers (which foils the heavy cavalry's greatest strength), but also because the most heavy cavalry units don't use shields (because their lances are two-handed) and shields are the best protection against missiles there is.

In the last section (Economy and Infrastructure) there is a tip about roads. There it should read "(see above)" instead of "(see below)", since the strategy section is above.

Olaf The Great

09-04-2010, 19:51

As the Sweboz, you can recruit 4 chervon units straight from some cities, and the german nobles(the ones with swords/spears and chainmail) can be upgraded to 3/1 with a blacksmith, rather than 1/1 as with most units. This includes the reformed ones and the mercenaries, but not the general unit.
As anyone with boats in the sea, you can recruit tons of good mercenaries from the southern tip of SPARTA, but it's blocked off from a land route so you have to use a fleet.

Defensive skill protects units in melee but not range, and shields only protect the left and front of the soldier. Armor protects all from every direction but is cut in half against armor piercing units, take this in consideration when facing different types of opponents. Your Gaesatae will be destroyed by horse archers and your Legions will be wrecked by Drapania

Marcus Darkstar

09-05-2010, 06:33

Yes, and don't we all hate "Evil mother-in-law" ancillary type?

Most def. i usually transfer that ancillary to an elderly statesmen about ready to die. So i can say begone to it as soon as possible.

Olaf The Great

09-06-2010, 00:50

NoHelmet

09-06-2010, 00:57

When using horse archer only armies, put the most heavily armored ones(like bodyguards and Cataphract archers) in the front to absorb ranged attacks, since on defense they're the best but they're equal with arrows. Bodyguards are the best for this as they are regenerated and free.

That is good, solid truth. Especially late bodyguards, with armor of around 25. And that way you can quickly strike when AI makes some stupid move...

Earl of Memory

09-06-2010, 05:15

Hi all, been lurking around ever since .7x series, and finally got an account here, to share a few tips...

In my campaign as Baktria, I found out my half stack of "Bactrioi Hippotoxotai" coupled with one unit of "Hellenikoi Kataphractoi" and a few units of "Prodromoi" wiped the floor out of the Saka and Pahlava (in their own turf, I mean fighting in the steppes). My own horsearchers could defeat theirs (superior armor) and my Kataphractoi would defeat theirs since most of the times they tried to chase down my horsearchers (unsuccessfully) and they would be exhausted by the time I sent my own Kataphracts in. Prodromoi would then charge from behind and put them to rout. Keep some skirmishers around for garrison duty if you want to keep their "cities".
Defend your own cities with some good archers such as persian archers or persian archer-spearmen, perhaps a few slingers, and a unit or two of "Pandotapoi Phalangitai", while your half stack of horsemen is away. Build your pop growth buildings first, and also build mines (essential to support a half stack of horses).
Keep peace for as long as possible with the Arche Seleukeia, since they have endless gold coffers, and will win a war of attrition against you. When you're ready to attack, blitz them a bit and grab all their eastern possessions (East of Persepolis, or perhaps grab Persepolis and the surrounding cities as well). Most of them have mines, which is always nice, and while you've been at peace, the AS might have developed those for you!
Ok, too much Baktria for today...
As a general rule, try to keep a spy or two in your outlying cities, since they prevent the AI from sending spies which cause unrest (or at least your spies might expel any present enemy spy), which might cause rebellion if you're not careful. Also, I would recommend to choose some cities as Production & Cultural centers, and others (near the frontline) as Troop production centers. Set low taxes to all Towns, normal to Minor Cities, and very high taxes to >Large cities. Good FM should govern cities, and cities with FM almost always grow faster than those without one. Bad FM can die impaled in enemy spears, or in a boat to pirate land, they're also useful as heavy cavalry... I used to roleplay test them, the initially bad FMs would fight against great odds, and if they survived they would prove themselves and eventually became good.
just my two cents...

Olaf The Great

09-06-2010, 05:36

As Baktria, try to use spies to make Seleucid provinces rebel so you can capture them without making the Arche declare war on you.

Atraphoenix

09-06-2010, 11:10

If you want to roleplay rebellions spies are worthless in the cities close to capitals or in small states. Unfortunately the only chance to incite a rebellion is 'add_population cityname 5000'
note this is a game breaking issue and CTD is quite possible because of gov. building lines of EBBS script. So do not activate the script until the city rebelled. On the other hand if you do not activate the script more than one turn it may crash your game soon.

NoHelmet

09-06-2010, 17:04

Regarding some conversation on another thread: Fighting successor armies that spam phalangitai.

1. Eastern tactics (cavalry based armies). Spread your army, and if you successfully break up their line, start picking out individual units. Then, do this: Attack with some cheap infantry, then charge rear with some lancers (most noble eastern cavalry has it). Never stick around for too long after charge. Repeat as long as necessary. Possible difficulties: enemy has lots of missile support. You can easily outmaneuver them by spreading your army, or simply put some heavily armored cavalry to soak missiles (your general does the job, or cataphracts). Another problem: enemy has strong cavalry support: Drag them out with your HAs, then you will easily dispatch them with some heavier troop.

2. Western tactics (infantry based armies). Make them spread out, or keep them in place by sacrificing some cheap infantry while your heavies go around and take care from behind. Use javelins for maximum effect, as long as they are shot in the backs. Pilae do the job even better (teskatos, some northern iberians, romans), so do slings.

3. Spam your own phalangitai.

Atraphoenix

09-06-2010, 17:11

Regarding some conversation on another thread: Fighting successor armies that spam phalangitai.

3. Spam your own phalangitai.

I do this with Pahlava :laugh4:
The easiest solution. The latter ones needs a lot of micromanaging in battles.

CorporalJigsore

09-06-2010, 17:52

This isn't really a tip, but a question to the more savvy in the mysterious ways of EB... How do you "lure" garrisons to sally? Seems to be mentioned in quite the many starting guides for factions, and I, to be honest am kind of having trouble starting up with factions who have to siege a lot in the beginning. (Getai comes to my mind)

Of course I can try and seize the settlement with totally inferior troops, but simply keeping a larger army near the small sieging army doesn't seem to fool the AI in my campaigns?

NoHelmet

09-06-2010, 18:10

Lay siege when there is an enemy army near the city, and they will come to the rescue of the city, or attack the enemy army if it is right next to the city, that will cause the garrison to come out. Or simply wait couple of turns, and on the last one before starvation they will sally. Problem with that is that it devastates the land and makes your general gain morale losing traits, not to mention that 6 turns of waiting is not cost effective, but better than losing half of the army.

Geticus

09-06-2010, 20:19

Healing and Immortals:
Casualties are healed after a battle in order of first to last: the first cohorts that suffered casualties get priority of healing, while the last to enter combat and take casualties receive little to no healing. As long as a general has a quality healer like a druidic surgeon or the like, it can enable one to create units of "immortals" by deliberately subjecting select cohorts to suffer casualties first, and thereby receive priority of healing after battle. Some quality strategies include fast moving long range skirmishers like celtic slingers: station them a little in front of the battleline, let them skirmish as much as possible, if they get caught and suffer losses, advance the infantry line and cut the enemy down, either way the slingers deal good damage and heal whatever losses they suffer after battle since they took the first casualties. It is funny in this way to see Celtic slinger cohorts get repeatedly cut down, and miraculously healed in full, battle after battle, gaining chevrons steadily. Another approach involves tough elite infantry like gaesatae, Germanic bodyguards, hypaspists/solduros and the like, have them spearhead the attack and receive enemy javelin volleys, whatever damage they sustain tends to get healed after the battle is over since they took casualties first. This approach is extremely strong with gaesatae, enabling them to gain many chevrons and fully heal, becoming extremely powerful.

Druidry:
Druid skills are fairly hard to obtain but they can enable Celtic generals to become very powerful. Temples are crucial for improving the odds of receiving druidic improvements, the higher level the temple, the higher level druidry can be attained. Stone temples of Tanaris, Cernunnos, Sucellos, and Andraste all help greatly to bestow druidical bonuses. Seventh level druidry is extremely hard to obtain but is perhaps the most powerful general bonus in EB bestowing something like +2 hitpoints, +2 morale, +2 command, greatly improved healing (something on the order of 45%) and an influence bonus. To get the best chance of receiving strong druid generals, build level four druidical temples all over Gaul and Britain, put all young FMs through the Ynys Mon education in Britain, and station them all over Gaul after completing Ynys Mon.

NoHelmet

09-06-2010, 21:10

Couple of useful things...
1. When conquering an enemy town, make sure that you destroy any barracks that you cannot use. This provides you with some instant income, and also prevents enemy from recruiting new troops if he retakes the city.

2. If in serious financial situation, look for your wonders. Some bring small bonuses, but present an actual last resort to your finances. For example: Tolosa lake (20000mnai) and Persepolis (10000mnai). Do not destroy experience bringing monuments, like Kogainon.

3. At the beginning of your Campaign, use all of your resources to train as much cheap troops as you can. E.g.: Aedui, you start with 5000mnai. Full up you recruitment queue with Lugoae and Iaosatae, and they will train in the next 4 - 5 turns, respectively, regardless to your financial debt.

Atraphoenix

09-06-2010, 21:55

If you want to build a militarist empire and you want some blitzing war you have 2 logical options depen on your patience:

1- If you are patient enough always build level 1 & 2 local MICs. Your low tier troops are most likely levies who are cheap to recruit that may allow you numeric superiority the only problem is that you need population enhancing temples and other building and you should never exterminate conquered cities use exile.

2- If you are in a hurry and your native levies are hard to use against endless stacks of elites of your enemies, forget about recruiting hire mercenaries. That means you need money ... a lot of money and a lot of inevitable exterminations........

--------------------------------------------------------------

I know many people like cavalry warfare and cavalry dominated states, me for example I am addicted to use Cataphracts.
On the other hand, it would be quite annoying not to have 2 field armies even you have 30 cities.
And if you play any infantry dominated states you know that if you had 30 cities you can have more than 4 Field Armies!

Lets get numbers if you have 100,000 mnai you can feed -NOT RECRUIT-:

308 - Parthian horse archers
84 - Parthian cataphracts
68 - Parthian late Cataphracts

while you can have :

311 - native levy phalanx - axe holders :-)
157- medium phalanx - pezos
117 - elite phalanx - argies.

Do not forget phalanxes have 240 cavalries have 100
so at maximum if both side fights with elites

68*100=6800 grivpandar
117*240=28,080 argies!

That means you can nearly have 4 TIMES MORE INFANTRIES INSTEAD OF CAVALRY!

NoHelmet

09-06-2010, 22:12

Do four men go quicker than one horse?

Olaf The Great

09-07-2010, 04:53

1-any building that gives a +morale bonus is crap, it doesn't even work. Thus +morale temples(unless they give a +experience bonus at the end) are inferior to other temples.
2-generally, the best temple is the one that gives the most +law, or in some way increases the combat potential of your army.
3-Some wonders give you no bonus(or a +morale bonus......) and you're better off destroying them unless you want it for roleplay benefit.\
4-As mentioned before, in the beginning of the game spam troop building in the first few turns OR spam economy buildings, the strategy differs depending on faction.
For example, the Casse start out at peace with the Eleutheroi, so you might as well just disband your army and spam economic buildings, factions like Carthage that already start out with huge armies and don't have a serious threat looming can probably be fine with spamming economy and just using your current army.

Atraphoenix

09-07-2010, 13:59

Do four men go quicker than one horse?

Simply avoid attacking nomads on the field attack their cities most have no walls... 20 units of phalanx make a whole line that horse archer cannot pass if attacked on the field as you know they are immortal in the front against horse archers.
BTW I hate slow moving phalanxes that is why I like killing them though it costs me a fortune.

Titus Marcellus Scato

09-07-2010, 14:53

For example, the Casse start out at peace with the Eleutheroi, so you might as well just disband your army and spam economic buildings

Casse: Be careful though, don't disband all your army! The Eleutheroi send an army of 5 Caledonian skirmishers down to your northern border at the beginning of the campaign. Sometimes that army will sit in the forest and do nothing, but sometimes it will put your only town under seige, and you won't be able to fight them off with just your family members alone. Keep a couple of units at least. I usually disband only one unit of spearmen (and the ship) and keep the rest.

Olaf The Great

09-07-2010, 17:25

That's true, if you play on hard or very hard difficulty, the Eleutheroi can attack your cities.

Duguntz

09-07-2010, 21:36

1-any building that gives a +morale bonus is crap, it doesn't even work. Thus +morale temples(unless they give a +experience bonus at the end) are inferior to other temples.
2-generally, the best temple is the one that gives the most +law, or in some way increases the combat potential of your army.
3-Some wonders give you no bonus(or a +morale bonus......) and you're better off destroying them unless you want it for roleplay benefit.\

I must answer you on this! true the moral bonus don't work, but experience bonus does! so level one temple of deiwoz (as an example) gives +1 moral... but level 3 gives +3 exp... combine that with a field game (+1 exp), and you can spam very cheap levies fresh out with 1 silver chevron, and medium line holders the same... wich makes them killing machine, especially if you have a blacksmith (wich I always have) and, if your lucky, a wonder that gives experience (in wich case every unit you train from that citie would have 2 silver chev. from the start...) So basicly, your medium troops can defeat elites XD well, this is how I can win against elite spam of AI, they send me elites, i send them EXP!!! wining without cheating!

Olaf The Great

09-07-2010, 21:52

I must answer you on this! true the moral bonus don't work, but experience bonus does! so level one temple of deiwoz (as an example) gives +1 moral... but level 3 gives +3 exp... combine that with a field game (+1 exp), and you can spam very cheap levies fresh out with 1 silver chevron, and medium line holders the same... wich makes them killing machine, especially if you have a blacksmith (wich I always have) and, if your lucky, a wonder that gives experience (in wich case every unit you train from that citie would have 2 silver chev. from the start...) So basicly, your medium troops can defeat elites XD well, this is how I can win against elite spam of AI, they send me elites, i send them EXP!!! wining without cheating!Especially since the Sweboz can get +3 attack for their elite footmen(the not-general version) from a blacksmith

Duguntz

09-07-2010, 21:56

Especially since the Sweboz can get +3 attack for their elite footmen(the not-general version) from a blacksmith

very true. buit I don't use them a lot... duguntiz with 2 silver chevrons plus upgraded weapons can make wonders, for a fraction of the price of the elite... they still take casualities, but are much cheaper to recruit AND to maintain!

NoHelmet

09-08-2010, 00:15

very true. buit I don't use them a lot... duguntiz with 2 silver chevrons plus upgraded weapons can make wonders, for a fraction of the price of the elite... they still take casualities, but are much cheaper to recruit AND to maintain!

That is one of the most important advices: Do not think that having elite troops wins the day. Positioning, leadership, micromanaging. Arange your army in a way that will reduce your need to manage every troop. As Duguntz said, relatively cheap units with decent experience make wonders. Now, elites are good, and make a valuable asset to an army, but come at a much greater cost. So, if you do spam elites, at least put them to good use, do not sit around doing nothing.

Burebista

09-08-2010, 09:14

Tip for new players:

When you are in a mood for an online custom game , you can find other EB players via the Hamachi network. you can find all details on www.ebonline.tk

Also , if you want , you can join in the Multiplayer tournaments located in the MP section of the EB forum .

Olaf The Great

09-08-2010, 19:18

Another tip it took a while for me to learn; Even when you have endless coffers, you still want to have a "trash" unit or two in your royal army, to distract your enemies and especialyl get them to waste missles. On battlefields a fast and cheap unit should be your "trash" unit, and the best trash units are missle cavalry(doesn't have to be archers as you want to get close enough for their infantry to throw stuff at you). This is especially true when your enemy has slingers and you don't want to have your elites wasted by peasants with rocks. If you're on a long campaign, simply replace the spent cannon fodder units with mercernaries.

Arjos

09-08-2010, 19:46

This one could be considered cheating:
Disbanding a unit while it's in an enemy's watchtower will leave you the view, until an enemy army stops there (almost never)^^
Could be that you left a spy or scouting force there XD

NoHelmet

09-08-2010, 19:56

Fleets in ports cannot be attacked by enemies, and can sail out even if the port is blockaded. That means that you can hold cheapest possible ship without the worry of it being destroyed and use it to board armies. Especially useful in narrow seas, where you often need to transport troops.

The_Blacksmith

09-09-2010, 08:46

Fleets cant be merged, they have to be build together, how ever this is very costly, and you wound't need more than 2 tririme fleets to transport your troops safely...

Ca Putt

09-09-2010, 09:34

Lysimachos

09-09-2010, 12:32

but only because admirals seem to get stars quite easy. an admiral who hasn't fought any seafight is likey to submerge under another one. just remember, only a fleet with 0 stars can be merged. when a fleet/admiral has >=1 star it's only possible to add new ships "under" him he can't join a different fleet.

Admirals who have a trait can't be merged under another admiral, but since in EB every Admiral has a trait (for the season), no fleets can be merged completely.

Olaf The Great

09-10-2010, 23:35

I'm sure I've been able to merge fleets together, even with the season trait.

Atraphoenix

09-15-2010, 10:09

I have no idea whether it was said before, Do not have more than 50.000 at the end of your turn. Your governors will have corruption traits that severely reduces your income. With 100.000 mnai, the chance to get that traits doubles; with 150.000 mnai it triples!
And do not confuse corruption traits with corruption info in your income table. Corruption traits effects your governors but this effect does not reflected on corruption screen. You have to build buildings mostly temples that give law bonus to reduce it but for traits you have to keep you treasury less than 50.000 mnai before you press end turn button.

Lazy O

09-15-2010, 18:59

vollorix

09-15-2010, 20:12

Always remember, a unit with Gold attack and defence will always rip to shreds a unit with 6 experience. This applies to all mods so make blacksmiths a priority before experience in recruitment centers
But there is only 1 level of blacksmith in EB afaik?
Also, each level of experience grants your unit +1 atack, +1 defence ( and +1 morale, iirc ).

@Atraphoenix: are the corruption traits in EB the same as in vanilla? I ask, because, though i used to have definetly more than 50k mnai while playing Casse, the only trait i got was "wealthy" for only one of my generals, hmm...
Btw: you are a modder yourself, could you give me a quick tip how can i get rid of any non factional ( roman + italic ) troops for Romans? I´d like to be facing some cool roman armies, instead of fighting lugoai & co. ( i know, such questions do not belong here, but rather in modding forums - a pm would do the job :) thx in advance!

Olaf The Great

09-15-2010, 20:44

Extravagant is a tradeoff, and is better for generals than governors. Lover of beauty is bad for generals(abeit a small -command which isn't really a big deal), and I think Barbarians have a lower chance for it.
Basic Blacksmiths can only go up to 1 defense and 1 attack(with some exceptions) but in MULTIPLAYER you can get up to +3. In the campaign you can get up to silver/gold for the Casse with a max temple of some sort(this may have been removed), and +3 attack and +1 defense for one unit from the Sweboz.

Here's a few tips.
1)Basically for governors, Influence increases happiness, Management increases income and reduces corruption. Both are great, but in your big cities with lots of +order improvements, management is strictly superior, though many traits that give influence also give management. The "Extravagant" traits give +1/2/3 influence and -1/2/3 management, and lover of beauty gives -1 command and +1 influence. They aren't 100% bad, especially balanced with ancillaries and command is practically useless for all governors aside from border settlements.
2)Recruited Generals are almost completely useless, I'm afraid. You can't hold any settlements with them(impostor trait despite military rule....) they have their uses in border defense, but eh.
3)Stamina is often superior to Morale and attack/defense, as battles in EB last a very long time, and your excellent morale exhausted cataphracts will get ripped to shreds by the warmed up peasants.
4)Cavalry charges with lances are much easier(stupid Total war battle system) with tired cavalry, as they move slower and actually lower their lances when they're an acceptable distance from the target.
5)You can stack units on top of eachother to form an incredibly dense line, especially with phalanxes. It's a little bit exploitative especially for bridge battles, but it might be balanced by the huge casualties you'll get from missile fire.
6)Bridge battles are potentially massive cakewalks, especially if you have phalanxes and massed archers, slingers can work but it's more difficult to avoid friendly fire unless there is a large amount of enemies on the bridge. It's very nice seeing generals run across the bridge and immediately die, and if they're Casse might cause lots of problems for themselves. If your enemy has lots of phalanxes they will be probably be forced out of formation unless it's multiplayer and the guy knows the cancel orders trick.
7)Pikemen are absolutely awful at attacking cities, they are effectively swordsmen in this fight and you're better off turning off phalanx. You can however get by with lining them up, and pressing "cancel orders" this makes them all go back to their main weapon immediately and go into formation, this helps with the "wtf spread" you get in cities.
8)Elites aren't meant to look pretty and be protected in the battlefield, remember they are BADASSES and can fight very well if used correctly. You can always go back and retrain them.
9)As I said before, use cannon fodder in loose formation to absorb missle fire to protect your elites, you can also get a few units to chase your unit to get themselves tired and away from the main battleline.
10)Don't commit your entire army to a single fight, notice how only the front few units are attacking and the back ones are just rapidly exhausting themselves? Yeah. Reserve those for when your main line is tiring and theirs is ripe for slaughter.
11)If you're attacking a wooden wall with a large amount of defenders, one ram is not going to cut it.
12)Sappers and Rams are crap against stone walls, though you might be good using a crap unit on the ram, but it'll probably catch on fire.

VIPERLORD

09-16-2010, 05:43

Casse trick regardless of difficulty

On the very first turn put your spy directly south west of the first northern town. Make sure it's right next to the town but not in it. By doing this the Eleutheroi army consisting of the Caledonian Skirmishers will STAY in Caledonia forever and give you a bit of breathing room at the start.

If you don't do this and they come down they will only attack your city once you build roads. (thanks to whoever pointed that out)

Randal

09-16-2010, 10:33

Contrary to what the above poster claimed, in my experience recruited generals are very useful indeed for holding distant or newly conquered settlements. It only takes four turns to install a type IV government, recruit a general and turn him into a client ruler. This then gives a massive public order bonus because client rulers almost always get a large influence bonus.

This enables your conquering armies to keep pressing onwards without losing lots of time to keep the new settlements from rebelling, particularly if you are far away from your capital. Later on you can always install higher level governments if appropriate. The only real alternative to this strategy is to bring a considerable number of experienced, high-influence governors with your field army, and you might need those to make money in your empire's core regions. Even exterminating newly conquered settlements sometimes isn't enough to keep them from rebelling without a good governor.

Atraphoenix

09-16-2010, 12:31

But there is only 1 level of blacksmith in EB afaik?
Also, each level of experience grants your unit +1 atack, +1 defence ( and +1 morale, iirc ).

@Atraphoenix: are the corruption traits in EB the same as in vanilla? I ask, because, though i used to have definetly more than 50k mnai while playing Casse, the only trait i got was "wealthy" for only one of my generals, hmm...
Btw: you are a modder yourself, could you give me a quick tip how can i get rid of any non factional ( roman + italic ) troops for Romans? I´d like to be facing some cool roman armies, instead of fighting lugoai & co. ( i know, such questions do not belong here, but rather in modding forums - a pm would do the job :) thx in advance!

-AFAIK it is same with vanilla.
-To deactivate any unit open export_descr_units
find "ownership seleucid, slave" delete the red line including comma.

Olaf The Great

09-16-2010, 20:10

NoHelmet

09-16-2010, 20:18

Use multiple spies if you want 100% chance of opening gates. With good spies, two is enough to ALWAYS open them.

vollorix

09-16-2010, 21:59

THX a lot @Atraphoenix! I thought, i would have to mess with EDB and stuff o0.

OT: i do remember it was definetly possible to attack ships within an enemy harbour ( at least in vanilla ). To do so you have to blockade a port with a fleet consisting of at least 2 ships, then choose other ship then the flagship and klick attack button. No idea, if it is/was a bug or intended, anyway, it should be possible in EB too.

NoHelmet

09-16-2010, 22:14

OT: i do remember it was definetly possible to attack ships within an enemy harbour ( at least in vanilla ). To do so you have to blockade a port with a fleet consisting of at least 2 ships, then choose other ship then the flagship and klick attack button. No idea, if it is/was a bug or intended, anyway, it should be possible in EB too.

Well, it is possible for YOU, but not to the dumb AI.

Meaning, as i said, that your one-ship-fleet is safe from all attacks from the enemy. And for attacking enemy ships in ports, just right click and drag to the enemy ship that is docked.

Atraphoenix

09-17-2010, 20:50

If your faction neighbours romani never allow them to have 20 cities unless you like killing Marian Legionaries....

Olaf The Great

09-18-2010, 01:42

I think if anyone sits around long enough for the Marian reform to occur they would just be swarmed each turn by 250 roman stacks each turn, because the Romans have a ridiculously antagonistic and sucidal AI. Even if you want to take it slow it's usually a good idea to destroy italy if you border the Romans.
Can't wait for M2 diplomacy.

Titus Marcellus Scato

09-18-2010, 08:14

-AFAIK it is same with vanilla.
-To deactivate any unit open export_descr_units
find "ownership seleucid, slave" delete the red line including comma.

But don't forget that this will make the early Romans weaker, since they can't recruit Roman units outside of Italy, and if they can't recruit regional allied troops, they'll have to bring all their troops from Italy.

Lazy O

09-18-2010, 08:37

But its still annoying when they spam Pedites Extrardinari with not a single Camillan unit in the stack

vollorix

09-18-2010, 15:08

I´ve reduced the number of the soldiers in a unit of Pedites Ordinarii from default 40 to 30 and halfed the Triarii unit, without trweaking the costs ( perhaps i should half the upkeep too, but SPQR AI swims in money anyway ). Now the AI uses primary Princeps, with some Hastati support, but it still fields way too many Rorarii ( i guess, they seem quite cost effective to recruit ). And there are definetly more Samnite Milites, wich seem to substitute the Pedites. I wonder, why the EB team never responded to Triarii/Pedites spam of the AI?

OT: When playing Casse, you can first secure your "former belgian holdings" on the continent, by shipping your army + 1 or 2 recruited slingers over the channel, and taking Bratosporus + Bagacos in the first turns. You´ll go in red for a couple of turns, but then you´ll get insanly rich trhough the trade of those 3 towns, and can easily start the conquest of Britain, while building up infrastructure on the continent for later conquests.

stratigos vasilios

09-18-2010, 17:14

I very much like what you've done with the OP athanaric. I know you probably changed it awhile ago, but I've only seen it now. Kudos *tips hat*.

JeffVader

09-21-2010, 15:52

When fighting a bridge battle, look out for a passage through the river! (It's a bright strip in the water) There your men can pass the rver and attack the enemy from behind if necessary! Took me quite a while to realize that and it was by chance...but NEVER use it during winter, as your men will die in the icecold water.

Madoushi

09-22-2010, 20:34

If a city's population is getting too high (leading to unrest) have that city produce large numbers of cheap units, ship them to one of your smaller cities and disband them

Horse Archer stacks can take out far larger stacks by engaging, firing off all their arrows, retreating and repeating untill the stack is small enough to engage head-on.

The_Blacksmith

10-15-2010, 10:13

Horse archers vs Phalanx Troops

they are practically impossible to kill when fireing from the front. you have to get them on the right flank or rear the have an effect

Historically i call this a plausible, because the the missiles were highly likely to hit the sariccas in 4th or 5th row and accually lose all stopping power and fall to the ground

Gameplay vise: it the phalanx were more vaunable, it would be extremely hard to fight ANY horse archer faction....