Andriod or Blackberry mobile phone? Also, any personal experience with Virgin Mobile

[Crazed Rabbit]

So I'm looking to get a new phone, and wondering what the Org users have to say about the two main types I'm looking at; blackberry and android phones.

I'm looking for something that would, ideally, have good (for a phone) picture, video, and voice recording features, along with web access and the ability to download apps. I also want something I can use a true VOIP service on.

Right now the blackberry bold 9700 is at the top of my list. But I'm not that sure how the newest android and blackberry phones are differentiated (except by OS). Any information you'd care to share would be much appreciated. I've mainly been getting info from cnet.com so far, so if you know a good tech/mobile blog please tell me.

For service providers, I want something without a contract and cheap - which means Virgin Mobile or T-Mobile in the US, I think. Both those offer plans for web access, texting, and limited (but plenty for me) talking time. I'm aware that means I'll have to buy the phone at full price.

CR

[Lemur]

All of the three-way face-offs I've read (iPhone/Android/Blackberry) have come down in favor of the latest Android, which I believe stands at version 2.2. Blackberry is recommended if you are dealing with a large corporate or governmental infrastructure, since it's tops on security for email.

Here's a very long article (http://www.maximumpc.com/print/7046) comparing all three, almost entirely from an OS perspective. Worth a read. I linked to the "print article" page so's you won't need to click through nine screens; just cancel the print message and enjoy.

I'm in a similar boat; for a new job I may have to get a real phone. I'm leaning toward Android, but I really want Android 3 (http://www.dailytech.com/Android+30+Gingerbread+Launches+Q4+Will+Kill+Off+OEM+UI+Skins/article18897.htm), which may or may not launch in time for me. Apple makes a great, slick product, but I'm none too keen on AT&T, and I can't give Apple money when there's a great open-source version right around the bend ...

-edit-

Just noticed that the article I linked was from '09, and therefore woefully out-of-date. Here's a much more recent article (http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=17032&news=BlackBerry+OS+Apple+iPhone+iOS+Google+Android+OS), kinda damning of the Blackberry, worth a read.

IMHO, for a pocket-everything-computer-device, it's between the iPhone and Android. Blackberry isn't really in the race.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Hmm, thanks for the article. I'll read through it and reevaluate my choices.

CR

[GeneralHankerchief]

I've been using Virgin Mobile for about 5-6 years now, no real problems with it. If you're using a phone only for the basics and for a limited amount of time, I'd definitely recommend it for you. Yeah, it's a bit annoying when you have to monitor how much time you have left and fork over $20 whenever you need to put more money on it, but all things said this happens to me maybe about once a month. $20 per month is a lot easier than any of the other plans out there, and the phones will do their job.

[edyzmedieval]

BlackBerry is very useful for e-mails and particularly the BBM (BlackBerry Messaging).

I'm looking to get another mobile phone as well as my trusty Nokia 6600 is starting to show it's age, so it's time for a change. BlackBerry Bold 9700 top of my list as well. Second comes the new HTC, interactive and with an amazing screen. iPhone is very useful but I want them to fix the problems of 4G first.

[Whacker]

I just bought a Samsung Captivate (Galaxy S version for AT&T) and I love this phone. Love it. It's the perfect cross between a nerd's handheld wet dream and the hipster I-can't-figure-out-more-than-one-button iPhone wielder. The sheer number of apps available for it easy breaks even with, if not flat-out outdoes, whatever is available for the iCrap.

If you just want a phone that works and you can download a few things for, then I'd say Android. It may take a little bit of time to learn how it works, but the result is worth it.

If you want a phone that you can root and is almost as powerful as a low-end laptop, then again Android. I've rooted my phone and installed a ton of goodies that make it do all kinds of cool stuff. But then again I'm a nerd and like ripping my toys to shreds and putting them back together.

Verdict: Android.

(Did any figure out I hate Apple and all of their miserable products yet?!?! :) )

[Lemur]

(Did any figure out I hate Apple and all of their miserable products yet?!?! :) )
Apple has its place, though it doesn't deserve the mindless fanboi adulation it gets. But even from a geek perspective, Apple has a place. Examples:

(1) My computer-idiot aunt needed a computer. We set her up with a Mac Mini and she hasn't managed to break it in over three years. This is a miracle. She has corrupted, broken and generally screwed up every Windows device she has ever touched. The Mac is notably more idiot-proof, so score one for the Cult of Steve.

(2) Unix laptops. Not a big selling point for me, but every Unix geek I know loves the fact that somebody is selling a line of well-made *nix laptops. Attend any *nix or database convention and you gonna see a lot of glowing Apple logos.

(3) For non-geeks, the iPhone is fine. Apple does their usual schtick, exposing and slicking-up the 10% of features most users will actually access, then chopping off everything else. I know a lot of happy iPhone users. Shall we damn them as heretics?

That said, I will never buy an iPhone. But I think blanket condemnation of Apple is exactly as silly as blanket praise.

-edit-

And to go slightly back on-topic, reading the reviews of your phone (http://www.vindy.com/news/2010/sep/19/samsung-galaxy-s-phones-do-android-proud/?newswatch) make me all tingly and happy. I still want to try to hold out for Android 3.0, though, even if the Captivate totally rocks Android 2.1.

[Husar]

iPhone is very useful but I want them to fix the problems of 4G first.

If you mean the antenna problems, I hear it's a lot worse in the US because AT&T is a really bad provider, haven't really hard many complaints from people outside the US so far.
I'd advise to use a case for it anyway, it may not look as nice but it will probably look better after slipping out of your hand, in fact my 3G case makes it sit in my hand much better, without it feels like it could just slip out of my hand.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Apple has its place, though it doesn't deserve the mindless fanboi adulation it gets. But even from a geek perspective, Apple has a place. Examples:
(1) My computer-idiot aunt needed a computer. We set her up with a Mac Mini and she hasn't managed to break it in over three years. This is a miracle. She has corrupted, broken and generally screwed up every Windows device she has ever touched. The Mac is notably more idiot-proof, so score one for the Cult of Steve.


Well so is OpenBSD: it's mainly that if you do not run as administrator, and you are not setup with sudo you can't play with fire so your chances of getting burned diminish a lot. Unless she knows about rm -rf ~ 1>/dev/null & (don't run that if you care about your files) and the likes I don't doubt that Auntie is not going to be able to truly fess up. And I would not be surprised if you conveniently forgot to tell her about the awesome world of the terminal & BASH, because if Aunt does not know about the tools to make a mess of things (and being unable to find out unless you are very specifically looking for them and have some background knowledge) that is one less class of tech support problems to deal with.

But if she did, and she decided to type: :(){:|:&};: (don't run unless you truly wish to push your core OS over the edge) and press enter then you could be sure about a call within seconds “Hey, Lemur, my laptop suddenly hangs...”



(2) Unix laptops. Not a big selling point for me, but every Unix geek I know loves the fact that somebody is selling a line of well-made *nix laptops. Attend any *nix or database convention and you gonna see a lot of glowing Apple logos.

I honestly don't see the attraction. I mean, yeah the MagSafe connector is nice. Other than that, I think these devices are simply not that good looking (stock VAIO's look better, and Samsung makes a nice one too occasionally), nor that “well-made”. Seriously, a laptop without a VGA port? I agree there's too much PowerPoint in this world, but I humbly submit that laptop aimed at getting work done ought to at least *have* a VGA port. You wouldn't buy a laptop without a battery either. I also submit that the user interface isn't great at all.

You are right on point (3) though. People who have no inclination to manually add functionality to the hardware they own (be it software additions written themselves or hardware upgrades), do not care about whether the thing does what they want as long as they can jump through a couple of white or silver coloured hoops to get there, and in general want to put their mind in “dumb default: do what I always do” mode then yes Apple products tend to work fine.

People who explicitly do *not* want to be in “dumb default: do what I always do” mode might find it sadly lacking however.

[Lemur]

People who have no inclination to add functionality to the hardware they own (be it software additions or hardware upgrades), do not care about whether the thing does what they want as long as they can jump through a couple of white or silver coloured hoops to get there, and in general want to put their mind in “dumb default: do what I always do” mode then yes Apple products tend to work fine.

People who explicitly do *not* want to be in “dumb default: do what I always do” mode might find it sadly lacking however.
This is pure flamebait, insulting to people who spend their own money to buy their own personal phone, and wildly inaccurate as icing on the cake. I realize I made a small attempt to counter Whacker's APPLE EVIL rant, but you're taking it to a whole new level of demagoguery. (You can't add software? ORLY (http://www.apple.com/iphone/apps-for-iphone/#heroOverview)? And people don't care "whether the thing does what they want"? Well golly, if Apple is so abysmally stupid, maybe you should make a shiny computer and sell it. Maybe, just maybe Apple is very good at exposing the 10% of features most users actually want. Might be a more difficult trick than you think.)

If you'd like to diverge from your 1992-era OS war, maybe you'd give us your opinion on Blackberry v. Android? I don't see the upside to Blackberry, so maybe someone who has used one extensively can end my ignorance.

[Tellos Athenaios]

I realize I made a small attempt to counter Whacker's APPLE EVIL rant, but you're taking it to a whole new level of demagoguery. (You can't add software? ORLY (http://www.apple.com/iphone/apps-for-iphone/#heroOverview)?

Sigh. I believe the proper thing to respond here is YARLY: or did iOS let you write your own administrative software which requires full root access? Does it? Will it ever, by default? Course not. Apple is not in the market of extensible equipment (and software). I'm not talking about buying an App with an installer (there's no you extending the capabilities of the device there). I'm talking about manually creating & adding your own utilities which do not come with proper installers or the Apple approved Seal. Which do whatever it is (stupid, or brilliant, useful or useless, dangerous or not) that you wrote it to do, no questions asked because this is all your own work for yourself only.


And people don't care "whether the thing does what they want"? Well golly, if Apple is so abysmally stupid, maybe you should make a shiny computer and sell it. Maybe, just maybe Apple is very good at exposing the 10% of features most users actually want. Might be a more difficult trick than you think.)
Yes by and large they don't. That's a well understood principle of software design: the user does *not* know what she wants. That's in roughly all software usability guides, not just those of Apple (the famous HIG) but never mind. Answer this: are users of Apple products going to be the type of people who want to tinker with their software the same way someone might set up elaborate configuration for Emacs? No? Why is that? Because they can't or because they don't want to? Apple's bet seems to be the latter, too: they are exceedingly good at the default mode and a lot less good at accommodating those who want something else (especially if that else is not approved of by Apple).

In business terms: Apple is not in the market of specialist equipment, or software. Nor is it in the market of extensible versions of same. So no, Apple products is not your bet for something which you want to configure just the way you like it down to the last key stroke. Apple products are for people who think Apple makes pretty intuitive to use stuff, and are perfectly content to use the Apple product in that fashion.

[Husar]

So if I don't want to spend hours customizing my phone and don't want to create my own content for it, I'm dumb?
Or did I misunderstand some of the phrases used here?
Symbian can be customized as well I hear.

[Tellos Athenaios]

So if I don't want to spend hours customizing my phone and don't want to create my own content for it, I'm dumb?
Or did I misunderstand some of the phrases used here?
Symbian can be customized as well I hear.

Yeah you did. Looks like I'll have to explain “dumb” too: it refers to the fact that from software usability you also get the notion that “the user is dumb”. In general users do not understand whatever it is you are “saying” to them in your software, which goes back to the point that you must assume that they don't attempt to read *anything* and if they do that they will give it up quickly as a bad job.

That's basically what people do when they encounter a message they don't understand. Instead of reading what it says they blindly “click OK”. A famous example of it would be the game company which included in the EULA of its games a clause to the effect that by accepting it (clicking OK/Next/whatever) you transfer ownership of your soul to that company and forfeit/waive any claim upon it.

So instead of making an informed decision, they'll blindly follow the default way out of the problem (the default your software offers) until they have encountered the problem often enough (through trial and error) they can make an educated decision (and if they're educated in the use of your software they will still skip the message because they will assume that the answer will be the same as before). It's not that they're not intelligent per se, it is that for some reason never seem to muster the energy/concentration to read a message in full, ponder its meaning and then use this information to their advantage. People learn to use software by trial and error rather than by reading & memorising the manual.

[CBR]

After a quick look at the specs the Blackberry Bold 9700 does seem a bit on the weak side compared to a new Samsung Vibrate. But the price is different: $99 v $199 on T-Mobile, not sure if its for the same plan.

Not sure if the antenna really is that big an issue for the iPhone 4. I can see a drop in signal strength with the "death grip" but it is only for the 3G signal, and even indoors it does not produce dropped calls or I have just been lucky so far.

Lemur: I'm sure some of this iHate is more understandable after reading this (http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/08/gadget-sex/) :grin3:


CBR

[Lemur]

The funny thing is that I never have to defend Windows to Apple users, or Linux to anybody. I really don't understand the irrational hate (or the irrational love) that people get frothed up about with Apple products.

So you can't write your own code and execute it on an iPhone wthout a dev kit (http://developer.apple.com/devcenter/ios/index.action), which costs a whopping $99. And coding for the iPhone isn't like using Emacs, and that makes it bad bad bad. There's only one possible response:

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Lemurmania/159871_bicycle_feet_1_vw.jpg

So what's your opinion of Blackberry? Or are you just stopping by for the iHate? Can we possibly discuss phones, or is yelling about Apple so very much more important?

[Whacker]

My dearest, beloved Lemur. You do realize that this all came about simply because I compared Android to the iCrap. Also, hugs?

http://www.slangdesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Picture_unrelated_unicorn_mecha-dolphin_rainbow.jpg

Blackberry is not the way to go. It's not as easy to use, doesn't have nearly the level of support and user-base that Android does, and consequently doesn't have near as many useful apps. Given CR's laundry list of what he wants, Android does all that hands down and easily.

[Whacker]

Some additional on-topic thoughts.

My android phone has 1. an AMOLED screen, which is amazingly clear and bright even in sunlight, 2. Gorilla glass, and 3. SWYPE!!!

AMOLED is unfortunately being phased down for a good number of phones right now, simply because there's a big market shortage of it. Hopefully this will be fixed down the road and it will make a comeback, because it's easily the best display solution for handheld devices at the moment. Google up some videos for those who are curious.

Gorilla glass is the next best thing since sliced bread. I don't want to use screen protectors because they get torn up fast, develop bubbles, etc... With Gorilla glass I don't need to do that at all. This video says it all: http://vimeo.com/8602963 . There's other ones out there which they take even scarier stuff to it, and not a mark.

Swype is an amazingly stupendous text input method that I wouldn't give up for anything. I used to be a die-hard "I need a keypad" type, and wouldn't consider phones that didn't have slide out keypads or built-in ones like the Blackberrys. Swype ended all that instantly. It takes a little getting used to, but once you get the hang of it you can input text almost as fast as typing on a full sized keyboard. http://swypeinc.com/ My phone came with a nifty little 5 minute demo/tutorial, after that it was no looking back.

[Whacker]

More spam.

Android 2.1 and up based phones all can capture at 720p resolution using the built-in cameras. Some phones also come with LED based flashes for the camera, unfortunately mine did not. The video capture is utterly amazing though. It's completely seamless, and the lighting auto-adjust works wonderful. The only downside is size, 1 minute of 720p vid capture clocks out to an average of 55-60 meg. Most all android phones come with bare butt minimum 8 gig built-in ram, so it's not like that's really a concern at all. Every single one I've seen available now supports at minimum 16gb microSDHC expansion cards, which is a no-brainer to do. Android 2.2 and up are supposed to add on to this feature set a bit, but it's probably overkill at that point. The nice thing is the phone's hardware is beefy enough to handle this, and the normal pictures it can take are such that I won't ever need a digital camera again, much less a camcorder.

[Tellos Athenaios]

So you can't write your own code and execute it on an iPhone wthout a dev kit (http://developer.apple.com/devcenter/ios/index.action), which costs a whopping $99. And coding for the iPhone isn't like using Emacs, and that makes it bad bad bad. There's only one possible response:

I'll take that as proof that nobody ever reads anything on their screen. Or if they do that they quickly give it up as a bad job. :shrug: I'll give you two words to reconsider the above though: tinkering, root.

To summarise my reply to your 3rd point:
If neither means anything to you, fine get the Apple.
If they do mean anything to you and you want to enjoy the fullest access to them as possible then don't get the Apple.

... I don't really count jailbreaking your device as a feature of Apple products. Do you?

As to my opinion on the phones themselves; if you get the phone for work and your employer happens to have or rent a BlackBerry Enterprise Server, it may be worth giving it another look. Otherwise go to respective outlets and try them. :shrug:

If I were to get a phone now, I'd buy an Android for the simple reason that I might want to experiment a little with it which is significantly easier to do when the thing doesn't go out of its way to do the “vertical integration” dance.

[Lemur]

As to my opinion on the phones themselves; if you get the phone for work and your employer happens to have or rent a BlackBerry Enterprise Server, it may be worth giving it another look. Otherwise go to respective outlets and try them.
That felt remarkably similar to pulling teeth.

-edit-

Looks like we're all living on borrowed time in Google's world:

Android Growth Continues, Others Lose Share (http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2010/09/android_growth.html)

Android is showing no signs of slowing down. For the three months ended July 31, Android is the only smartphone platform to show growth. Palm remained flat, while Apple, Microsoft and RIM all saw declines.

ComScore's latest report covers May, June and July of 2010. During this time Apple launched the iPhone 4 and even though it was a massive sales success, being a single phone on a single carrier in the US is limiting its growth. Many of the fourth generation's sales are from existing iPhone owners that are upgrading. That generates revenue for Apple, but does nothing for the iPhone market share.

The fifth generation iPhone could come with a genie that pops out when you rub it and grant you three wishes and there are still people that won't switch to AT&T's network. Apple has dropped from 25.1 percent share to 23.8 percent share. Because the smartphone market is growing, it shows that whatever growth the iPhone is enjoying, it isn't keeping up with the market overall.

Google's Android platform has surpassed Windows Mobile from Microsoft. This isn't new information, but it is the first time this has happened over a rolling three month period, which shows that the trend is real. Microsoft's share for the three months ended April was 14 percent, just ahead of Google's 12 percent. Now the tables have turned. Microsoft is at 11.8 percent while Google has climbed to 17 percent.

RIM of course remains firmly at the top. with 39.3 percent share, but it has been steadily declining. No data from the new Torch running Blackberry 6.0 is reflected in this study.

[edyzmedieval]

Still, BlackBerry has the perfect e-mail setup, the keyboard once you get used to it can be really useful and the BBM service is genius.

I'm looking to see if a cheap data plan for the BB is available over here. I really want to get one.

[edyzmedieval]

EDIT: Double post

[Husar]

If you want a really good one, I'd wait for the xphone (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udlxr8t1nZM)!

[Crazed Rabbit]

Well, it seems like Android is the best choice for me. Which leaves some more choices. CDMA or GSM phone? Virgin mobile is CDMA, and the guy at Best Buy said they would sell a service plan if I brought in an unlocked phone, which is nice - though something I plan on double checking. T mobile is GSM, and I haven't talked to them about unlocked phones.

Still, it leaves the problem of getting an unlocked phone. There seem to be several sites like this - http://www.htcunlocked.com/ - but I'm hesitant. The Nexus One from Google is something I'm looking into - it's sold unlocked from the factory which is nice.

CR

[Whacker]

GSM. CDMA is used by less than 25% of worldwide carriers, it's more widespread in the US and in Europe. My two cents, I would just get a contract. I get a discount through AT&T, but their service kinda stinks, so I wouldn't recommend them. Contracts do lock you in, but unless you move around a lot, or are planning on moving in the future, generally it's going to be a much cheaper option. Thus, I wouldn't worry about getting an unlocked phone.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Well I don't travel out of North America...ever...so far. And one of the reasons I want to go with something w/o contracts is that such plans are much cheaper. Virgin Mobile is half the cost of most other plans, and that more than makes up for the extra phone cost.

CR

[Crazed Rabbit]

So I'm leaning heavily towards the Samsung Intercept on Virgin mobile: http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/samsung-intercept-virgin-mobile/4505-6452_7-34183900.html#reviewPage1

Drawbacks appear to be that it's sometimes slow to respond.

CR

[Whacker]

That's an extremely small screen. Highly recommend you play with whatever phone you are leaning heavily towards for at least an hour at a corporate store.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Too late now. :shrug:

I think I'll manage though.

This is my previous phone:
http://www.cellphonedigest.net/images/cdm-120-3.PNG

I'm not going to do a lot of web page reading. More texting and streaming pandora. But it's an android phone with unlimited data and other stuff for only $25 a month.

CR

[Whacker]

Meh, so long as you're ok with it. You're going to love the Android OS after you fiddle with it for a bit.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Well I played around with it a bit today and it works well enough. Pandora works good - I may have to get a pandora subscription and new earphones.

Now I just need to find some VOIP service I can use zfone with.

CR

[edyzmedieval]

I got a Blackberry. I love it. BlackBerry Messenger especially.

Except when the software goes nuts and I have to take out the battery for one or two minutes then restart.