Global Climate Disruption. [Archive] - Page 4

CrossLOPER

10-21-2015, 03:26

I don't tip. But I live in Australia where it is assumed that the minimum wage covers the basic cost of living.
OK, well here you are expected to tip because the staff is payed about a dollar an hour. The manager then takes most of the tips and threatens to blacklist you if you squeak.

a completely inoffensive name

10-21-2015, 04:25

I think tracts are kind of hokey. I usually just talk to people.

And not that it's any of your biz, but if it's good service I usually leave 20%. But I've left as much as 50% and as low as zero if it's terrible service. How much do you leave?

And thanks for the good idea on your part. Maybe I'll start writing bible verses on my bills. :-p

The only reason someone should get 0% is if they took a dump on your microwaved tuna melt sandwich. Even then, I would give 10% for effort.

Husar

10-21-2015, 04:37

Do you guys also tip in fast food joints or other places or only in restaurants where the waiters have the appropriate dress and the sign above the entrance says "Restaurant"?

a completely inoffensive name

10-21-2015, 04:40

Do you guys also tip in fast food joints or other places or only in restaurants where the waiters have the appropriate dress and the sign above the entrance says "Restaurant"?

Does it matter whether or not I tell you? Europeans are always pretending they "forgot about tipping" because they need the extra 3 Euro for their backpacking trip to Yellowstone.

Husar

10-21-2015, 04:46

Does it matter whether or not I tell you? Europeans are always pretending they "forgot about tipping" because they need the extra 3 Euro for their backpacking trip to Yellowstone.

Eh, I do actually forget sometimes, or at least I used to. At the moment I often round up (not always to the next thousand, sometimes a thousand or two more), at least in fast food places and sometimes even in supermarkets. It has the additional advantage that I don't get buried in coins worth only hundreds of $.
I'm often too lazy to calculate percentages though and yes, I seriously often wonder if I'm at a place where I should tip or not, short of asking the employees for their wages I'm not sure how to tell.

a completely inoffensive name

10-21-2015, 04:49

Eh, I do actually forget sometimes, or at least I used to. At the moment I often round up (not always to the next thousand, sometimes a thousand or two more), at least in fast food places and sometimes even in supermarkets. It has the additional advantage that I don't get buried in coins worth only hundreds of $.
I'm often too lazy to calculate percentages though and yes, I seriously often wonder if I'm at a place where I should tip or not, short of asking the employees for their wages I'm not sure how to tell.

It's an American conspiracy to get you to take away all of our pennies and nickels (no one likes worthless coins).

a completely inoffensive name

10-21-2015, 05:03

I would have given you a full detailed answer as a follow up, but I realized I have to hit the gym. Rule of thumb, if they bring food/drink to your house you tip them, if you sit down and they bring food/drink to your table, you tip them. Also tip cab drivers. And valet people. And hotel bellmen. And other people.

Sarmatian

10-22-2015, 10:43

Beskar

10-22-2015, 20:50

Silly rule.

I do tip, usually a lot (did some bartending), but I have a huge problem with the American system. The tip is supposed to be me saying thanks for the service, not me paying the salaries instead of the owner.

Probably because of the high costs of service here too. I think we typically pay double the price of our American cousins on these things. The thing is, we don't mind much, because after all, they need to eat themselves, but it feels really alien how the Americans do it and no, they don't just tip $3 like ACIN implies, they tip like $20. Which ends up being half the cost of the meal or more (depends on said meal). This is especially alien as we would typically have ordered a more expensive meal instead since we only wanted to pay the $30 whatever?

Papewaio

10-22-2015, 21:38

Problem with tipping for living vs tipping for exceptional service...

If you need to survive on tips you are being underpaid. The owner/operator can go boom/bust sure. But by minimizing wages they are transferring a large part of the operating cost to the employees/wage serfs. Transfer of the risk to the staff, but I assume all the rewards go to upper management and owners.

For instance will you tip more for slow or fast service? A frown or a smile? Order kind of what you wanted medium vs medium rare steak?

Guess what are all these at the control of the individual employee or has the owner made a business decision to under staff for the shift? Two wait staff instead of three so the staff cannot swiftly handle all the guests, tired so they aren't genuinely smiling just those over the top teeth grinding grins, whilst the kitchen staff also go short handed and orders get down less than perfect.

And to add to all that fun the people who get penalized for the owner understaffing will be the staff who not only don't get a living wage their tips will diminish too.

=][=

https://www.fairwork.gov.au/ArticleDocuments/872/restaurant-industry-award-ma000119-pay-guide.docx.aspx
Minimum hourly rate here for an adult in the restaurant trade is $17.29

CrossLOPER

10-22-2015, 21:59

Silly rule.

I do tip, usually a lot (did some bartending), but I have a huge problem with the American system. The tip is supposed to be me saying thanks for the service, not me paying the salaries instead of the owner.
What?? You expect JOB CREATORS to PAY WAGES? The Holy Esteemed Order of the JOB CREATORS are above all other classes here in the Glorious Classless Democratic Northern Greater Republic States of America.

The thing is, we don't mind much, because after all, they need to eat themselves, but it feels really alien how the Americans do it and no, they don't just tip $3 like ACIN implies, they tip like $20. Which ends up being half the cost of the meal or more (depends on said meal). This is especially alien as we would typically have ordered a more expensive meal instead since we only wanted to pay the $30 whatever?
But the meal was cheaper, so you payed less money on the meal. You know NOTHING of US American economics.

a completely inoffensive name

10-23-2015, 07:44

Wait, why and who is tipping $20 for a meal?

a completely inoffensive name

10-25-2015, 07:50

I actually went back to double check because it was bothering me. I was arguing with AntiDamascus about discussing with people who hold absurd views, over a year ago. I wish I could apologize to her (him?).

rvg

10-26-2015, 02:30

Wait, why and who is tipping $20 for a meal?

I do. $20+ actually. A decent steak dinner for two easily costs $100 or more, and I usually tip at least 20%.

Papewaio

10-26-2015, 04:10

Thank fully I live in Aus and can afford a good steak for a fraction of that cost. And good coffee too.

Sarmatian

10-26-2015, 07:56

I do. $20+ actually. A decent steak dinner for two easily costs $100 or more, and I usually tip at least 20%.

And that is the perfect example of how idiotic the system is.

If you go to the supermarket and buy everything you need for a decent steak dinner for two - steaks, wine, vegetables, everything - and cook it at home, there's no chance that it would cost you more than 30$.

So you already pay 70$ or more for service, but than you're expected to pay 20$ more for, wait for it, the service.

And we haven't even touched the issue of how the steaks affect climate change.

Papewaio

10-26-2015, 09:45

Explain how steaks effect climate change.

Air -> Grass -> Animal -> Air

On a short term (geological scale) cycle:
Animals are part of a biological cycle and are not adding any net carbon to the atmosphere.
Digging up and burning coal is an additive process.

wooly_mammoth

10-26-2015, 10:46

It seems that they actually do, Pape.

We grow a lot of cattle (in the billion). Cows fart and burp a lot. In fact, according to a 2006 United Nations’ Food and Agricultural Organization study (http://www.fao.org/docrep/010/a0701e/a0701e00.HTM), all these cows are responsible for more greenhouse emissions than vehicles used by humans for transportation.

Papewaio

10-26-2015, 11:06

Ok those farts were grass which gets CO2 from the air.

Grass doesn't get (directly) carbon from oil drilling or fracking.

Beskar

10-26-2015, 13:49

Methane is a more potent gas than CO2 for Climate Change but farming cattle is also man made since they wouldn't be so numerous if we're not farming them.

rvg

10-26-2015, 17:02

And that is the perfect example of how idiotic the system is.

If you go to the supermarket and buy everything you need for a decent steak dinner for two - steaks, wine, vegetables, everything - and cook it at home, there's no chance that it would cost you more than 30$.

So you already pay 70$ or more for service, but than you're expected to pay 20$ more for, wait for it, the service.

And we haven't even touched the issue of how the steaks affect climate change.

Can't afford to eat at restaurants? Don't do it then.
Don't like to tip? Don't do it then.

I go to a the steakhouse on my own free will and leave a tip on my own free will. What exactly is the problem?

Papewaio

10-26-2015, 23:44

Methane is a more potent gas than CO2 for Climate Change but farming cattle is also man made since they wouldn't be so numerous if we're not farming them.

Yes and no. Most natural large fauna and flora have been wiped out.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/10/151026172050.htm

Rotting swamp matter creates a plethora of carbon gasses. Rotting vegetation in general releases carbon gases. Given the way hydro dams have been deployed the rotting vegetation under the water also releases carbon gases.

These are all part of a short term sink and release cycle.

The difference with fossil fuels is a very quick release of a long term sink.

HopAlongBunny

10-27-2015, 13:26

Cattle are the least of our worries.
The melting arctic may free up more methane than the planet has seen in a long, long time:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-than-150000-methane-seeps-appear-as-arctic-ice-retreats/

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/mysterious-seafloor-methane-begins-to-melt-off-washington-state-coast/

Papewaio

10-27-2015, 20:42

Exactly permafrost chilled methane, coal and gas deposits are all long term sinks that are normally part of a very very long cycle of deposit and release.

Releasing a lot of them over a short time frame is what is driving up the net amount of carbon as we don't have the sinks to take it back as fast as we release it.

HopAlongBunny

10-29-2015, 02:31

Not surprisingly, Exxon had the goods on this 40 years ago.
Can't blame them for trying to stay ahead of the curve? (much like the tobacco companies)

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/exxon-knew-about-climate-change-almost-40-years-ago/

Gilrandir

11-02-2015, 13:05

I go to a the steakhouse on my own free will and leave a tip on my own free will. What exactly is the problem?

Tipping is one of the most stupid things I can think of. In fact, it is bribery. But if you "tip" a governmental official for doing his job well, it is bribery. If you do the same to a hotel boy or a waitress, it is gratitude for the pleasure you received. Can't really see the difference, unless in amounts paid.
Come on, they have their wages, why should you pay additionally for what they are supposed to be paid by their employer?

rvg

11-05-2015, 02:05

Tipping is one of the most stupid things I can think of. In fact, it is bribery. But if you "tip" a governmental official for doing his job well, it is bribery. If you do the same to a hotel boy or a waitress, it is gratitude for the pleasure you received. Can't really see the difference, unless in amounts paid.
Come on, they have their wages, why should you pay additionally for what they are supposed to be paid by their employer?

There's no need to justify not tipping, you're not required to do it. I do it because I like doing it. If course I do not tip where tipping is not expected, but wherever it is expected, I try to be generous.

HopAlongBunny

11-05-2015, 07:00

When "We the People" don't matter:

http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2015/11/republicans-hate-climate-plan-poll-chart

Much like background checks on guns...

Gilrandir

11-06-2015, 11:24

There's no need to justify not tipping, you're not required to do it. I do it because I like doing it. If course I do not tip where tipping is not expected, but wherever it is expected, I try to be generous.

You are not required, but the social environment imposes that "expectation" upon you, so you have to conform to it whether you like it or not, otherwise you will be looked askance, mocked or even reprimanded by those who would spot the inadequacy (as they believe) of your behavior. So it becomes not a matter of your free choice, but a social norm which you can't ignore without incurring moral penalties. Moreover, I heard that in some places the tip is officially included into the price of the meal. Here it became an official regulation (don't know how legal it is).

But what pisses me off most is the arbitrariness of the services eligible for tipping. Why don't you tip librarians, school teachers or cashiers? Don't they deserve generosity from the customers?

rvg

11-06-2015, 12:59

You are not required, but the social environment imposes that "expectation" upon you, so you have to conform to it whether you like it or not, otherwise you will be looked askance, mocked or even reprimanded by those who would spot the inadequacy (as they believe) of your behavior. So it becomes not a matter of your free choice, but a social norm which you can't ignore without incurring moral penalties...

That's just not true. Black people generally don't tip, and that does not result in any mocking.

AE Bravo

11-06-2015, 23:49

Nope, he's right I'm pretty sure if you don't tip you're the stingy a-hole.

Customary courtesy.

Beskar

11-07-2015, 00:04

I heard of people getting hassled by waiting staff for not 'tipping enough'.

Infact, reminds me of a Holiday in Israel and we didn't tip the tour-guide enough, and he was complaining about it... he had £300-400 or so in tips, though apparently Americans tip like £800+, so the tour-guides don't get paid by the company. So he was like "Was I bad? Did I do something wrong?", and everyone was a little dumbfounded because they thought he was paid and getting £300-400 in tips is very generous.

After that, people were kind of proded hard to 'tip more', and the tour-company decided to do brand new 'inflated' rates for English and Europeans to cover the difference.

Husar

11-07-2015, 00:32

So if you have to pay the guide's wage directly, what are you paying the tour company for?

And if you don't tip when you're expected to tip for the service the waiter provides, can you also not pay the restaurant owner for his service if you don't like him enough?

CrossLOPER

11-07-2015, 01:29

what are you paying the tour company for?
Freedom.

Beskar

11-07-2015, 04:46

So if you have to pay the guide's wage directly, what are you paying the tour company for?

Well, they provide the various accommodation in hotels, coach, driver, border passes, their expertise, etc. But yes, we thought it was included but turns out it wasn't.