View Full Version : Where should I go to next?
QuintusSertorius
09-30-2010, 02:38
This is my Epeiros-as-Massilia game so far:
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/Kiero/255BC.jpg
I could reason good (roleplaying) justifications for taking Tolosa (getting involved in the disputes of a neighbouring Celtic tribe, helping one faction gain the upper hand in return for trade and support) and Emporion (coming to the aid of the local Greeks who felt oppressed by the Iberians). They also give me a neat little corner of the map with sea trade and even some mines thrown in. Nice sustainable little empire.
Only I can't really see where to go next. I've got an alliance with Rome, which should hopefully keep them off my back for a while. I don't want a war with them (so Segesta is out), I'd lose. I can barely support a non-garrison force as it is, and they're my best trading partner.
Burdigala seems possible, though I'd then be extended over a thin strip between the Aedui, Arverni and eventually the Lusotanni. It would also pitch me into a not-so-eventual war with Aedui or Arverni sooner than I'd probably be ready for. Not sure I could come up with a real reason to attack it, though. It's not near Massalia and there are no Greeks there.
Arse is a long way away and in the Qarthadastim's orbit. Again they're good trading partners. I can think of even less reason to make a sortie on Velika than Burdigala.
Have I reasoned myself into a corner here? Perhaps I should wait it out for a bit and build up my economic infrastructure? Still have improvements to farms and markets in Tolosa and Emporion to come.
I could always build some ships and take Krete in the meantime, that's got Greeks and some rich sea trade. Though it might be stretching it a bit to see them join a league with Massilia. Feels more like a metagame type choice.
Thoughts?
Unintended BM
09-30-2010, 03:32
One time as the KH, I had my last surviving Spartan bodyguard general travel to all the different islands and capture them, and I had him stop in in Africa and stuff like that. He had his own little Odyssey thing. You could find some reason for Carthage to make you mad and do that to the western islands at least. Krete is kind of a stretch though.
If you rely on trade with Karthadasht and Roma then turtle for a while, build up enough income for a decent size army, and then besiege Gergovia until it submits. Conquer Gergovia, Viennos, and Burdigala, build good roads and open up some land trade around your core region.
I would focus on economy as well. What difficulty are you playing on? I would expect the Arverni to attack in the not-so-distant future, thereby giving you plenty of reason to counterattack and invade. Atleast you could make money from a punitive expedition. Then, of course, you'd get the attention of the Aedui. Then the Sweboz. All while the Lusotannan close in from the south.
As for RP casus belli, a strategy I sometimes use is to train a general of the culture in question, sponsor him with an army of his own people, and let him go in search for a kingdom on my expense. It is an expensive trick, but pays of in the long run. You could use it for Burdigala, or even Numantia. But yes, costly...
Basileus_ton_Basileon
09-30-2010, 06:55
You can rush down Italia and free your fellow western greeks from the tyranny of the barbarians.
Burebista
09-30-2010, 07:43
I think you should go for as many rebel settlements you can . The more southern the better. If i were you i would get Burdigala & Velika . or maybe storm Arse and the 2 quarthadastei provices in spain. then steal the balearics too. that will practically end all problems with quarthadastei as they won't be able to retaliate. then consolidate by taking all Iberia.
optional stratedgy...go for sicily and the 2 italian islands. nice spot with plenty of money. And greeks , if u wanna roleplay.
Titus Marcellus Scato
09-30-2010, 07:46
I would go for Arse, but be prepared to pay Carthage 200 mnai per turn not to attack me.
QuintusSertorius
09-30-2010, 10:51
Because I'm not a conquering power, I'm using type IV governments in all settlements bar Massalia. I'm playing on M/M. That's probably why the Aedui and Arverni have largely ignored me so far. Though the Romans keep trying to bribe the governor of Tolosa, having given up on doing the same to my faction heir in Massalia.
Raising an entirely Celtic force to have a go at Burdigala sounds like a plan, though in a bit when my economy can support one. Does Burdigala have mines? More rebel settlements is good since it doesn't provoke an immediate war. Storming down the east coast of Hispania isn't going to happen, though. Its one settlement at a time at a gentle pace, building a confederation takes time.
I could "exile" a family member to Krete. Ensure that him and his whole branch of the family is removed to there, then send no support once they're there. Kyrene is another possiblity, though that would put me right between Egypt and Qarthadast. Fun later on in the game, mind.
SaigonSaddler
09-30-2010, 10:59
If in doubt, go for Arse. My philosophy in EB and (much to the discomfort of wives/girlfriends etc) life in general.
Get Pytheas' works and go to Britannia or Hibernia, you'll have a safe economic area there...
To get there maybe travel by land with an army till Burdigala, while a little navy circumnavigate Hispania, or you could RPing an allied Veneti and move an Admiral nearby...
Paltmull
09-30-2010, 14:17
If in doubt, go for Arse. My philosophy in EB and (much to the discomfort of wives/girlfriends etc) life in general.
:laugh4:
I need to ask: do you do those "campaigns" using "show_cursor" and so on, or do you actually board a fleet and sail? XD
QuintusSertorius
09-30-2010, 19:15
I need to ask: do you do those "campaigns" using "show_cursor" and so on, or do you actually board a fleet and sail? XD
I moved them. Haven't got time to mess about sailing them there. Took me about two turns to have Massalia and divest myself of Taras, Ambrakia, Epidamnos, my fleet and elephants.
hehe :P forgot how the command to actually move them sounds, i once sailed from Gaul to Galatia xD
The romans are your pals you say? Very well, they should attack the gauls at some point. You can take the east, they, the west.
Also with the carthies. If you're friendly with them, and they find a reason to pick on the Luso's, go for that too.
I'd install clients in provinces where a large Greek presence is historically plausible (for me, wherever I can recruit a client strategos, not vollorix), and level 3 governments for occupation where not.
When Rome and Carthage quarrel, side with the Romans. Aggressively ;)
QuintusSertorius
10-07-2010, 15:52
I go with type IV and the appropriate local client everywhere, we are not a conquering power, after all! We just like to install governments amenable to our goals.
It's your game ofc, and clients usually have big influence and can pay for themselves by keeping public order without the need for so many levied garrisons (which means more tax). Anyway, why Epeiros? I'd much rather get rid of a less relevant faction and the least relevant Hellenistic state is Pontos.They're Eastern flavored, so more modding is needed, but they hardly ever do anything.
QuintusSertorius
10-07-2010, 16:53
It's your game ofc, and clients usually have big influence and can pay for themselves by keeping public order without the need for so many levied garrisons (which means more tax). Anyway, why Epeiros? I'd much rather get rid of a less relevant faction and the least relevant Hellenistic state is Pontos.They're Eastern flavored, so more modding is needed, but they hardly ever do anything.
Because they're Western Greek and the most dispensible faction in the game. Five years after the official campaign start, in the real world, they were an irrelevance.
Lysimachos
10-07-2010, 16:55
It's your game ofc, and clients usually have big influence and can pay for themselves by keeping public order without the need for so many levied garrisons (which means more tax). Anyway, why Epeiros? I'd much rather get rid of a less relevant faction and the least relevant Hellenistic state is Pontos.They're Eastern flavored, so more modding is needed, but they hardly ever do anything.
Historically Epeiros was the first of the EB factions to vanish and in game there is a 50-50 chance they are defeated by the Makedonians, by using Epeiros to migrate you just make that "choice" for them.
WinsingtonIII
10-07-2010, 18:11
I'd say from a historical roleplaying perspective that going inland and conquering Gergovia and Viennos doesn't make much sense. Given that Massalia relied on Mediterranean trade, and relies on it in your game as well, conquering the inland Celtic tribes would be regarded as much hassle for little economic gain, as you gain landlocked provinces. Burdigala is a bit of a stretch as well, because it is not a Mediterranean port, but I suppose you could roleplay that you are opening up trade routes for tin in the British Isles. Arse makes the most sense, as it would give you more economic control over Western Mediterranean trade, but from a gameplay perspective, going up against Carthage might be disastrous.
I guess I haven't helped much, but I think I would actually go for Burdigala and roleplay the Tin Isles trade route. Arse can come later when you've built up more power.
vollorix
10-08-2010, 00:20
The problem with my most campaigns is that i am getting bored, once i´ve reached the point of invincibility. I think, it could be a nice idea to play KH, and try to get all the Greek colonies under your control, only relying on the local troops, once you´ve managed to regain them: Keep the FM, the initial campaigning army, and the fleet, but with no reinforcements at all. I mean, what is the point of role playing Massila as a city state, if one stays all the time within it´s boarders, and the only thing one can do is to protect that colony? But fighting on all the fronts from Iberia into Skythia, from Gaul to Asia Minor sound like a funny task, since you still have to worry about Epirotes and Macedons in Greece itself. How does it sound? Or has someone done kind of this allready, without conquering the world with Greeks as such?
Brave Brave Sir Robin
10-08-2010, 01:39
Well that would quickly turn into Europa Siegeorum and so I don't think its that practical.
Cambyses
10-08-2010, 09:41
Well, Carthage and Rome will eventually fall out and start squabling over Sicily. And its in your interests that they do, otherwise Rome is free to gobble up all of Gaul and Carthage alll of Spain. Removing Epirus from Italy so early will have the effect of boosting Rome's performance. SO, IMO you need to chose between the two which you will continue to remain allied to. I would strongly suggest that is Rome. A western KH, which is what you appear to do be doing, needs Arse, the Balearics, Sardinia and Sicily.
QuintusSertorius
10-25-2010, 03:44
Had a long break from this game playing Pergamon, but I had another short spell. I'd grabbed Kydonia for some easy extra cash, and now I'm going for Arse. Then it's sit tight and build up my economy for a while, and if the Karthadastim attack, I'll use that as a pretext to take Bocchoris off them.
QuintusSertorius
10-26-2010, 02:41
235BC, and I went for Arse. Not long after that, the Karthadastim attacked me, so as punishment I took Bocchoris before forcing a peace.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/Kiero/235BC.jpg
Recently they built up two full stacks and attacked Arse again, so now I'm going to take Sardinia and Corsica off them. You can see my sole army besieging Alalia at the edge of the screen.
Aside from Kydonia, you can see the sum total of my "empire". Apart from Massalia, they're all type IVs.
Titus Marcellus Scato
10-26-2010, 06:57
Did you try bribing the Carthaginians 200 mnai a turn?
As a next step, how about liberating Segesta from the Aedui?
QuintusSertorius
10-26-2010, 10:49
Did you try bribing the Carthaginians 200 mnai a turn?
As a next step, how about liberating Segesta from the Aedui?
I was bribing the Romans, but after a while they attacked me. I put Segesta there as a buffer between me and the Romans; hopefully now they no longer share a land border they'll go east (which they already started doing of their own accord when we were allies). At the worst it might break the alliance between the Romans and Aedui, which will take the pressure off me. They're more of a threat than the Karthadastim are (when they attacked, it was nearly a full stack of pedites extraordinarii!).
Romans are smart, they see your evil designs of greek empire. Those type 4's are just a shallow facade of independence. =)
QuintusSertorius
10-26-2010, 18:38
Romans are smart, they see your evil designs of greek empire. Those type 4's are just a shallow facade of independence. =)
They may have seen through those designs, but they were duped by installing their allies on their western border. They've simply stopped advancing westwards and northwards, and are actually looking east. I'm hoping their alliance with Makedonia won't last long once they start competing for the Illyrian coast.
QuintusSertorius
10-27-2010, 01:52
An opportunity presented itself to avail myself of Burdigala. I'm now thinking if the Karthadastim take Kyrene, I'm going to send an army to relieve them of it. Playing Kyrene as an independent little Greek kingdom in Africa is a lot of fun.
I'm really tempted to take Rhodos and Kypros, but I know that's just because they're rich and easy to defend. I wonder if I should really give Krete away since it's miles outside my sphere of influence.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/Kiero/224BC.jpg
Gaul is now a four-way contest between the Belgae (Casse), Aedui, Arverni and clients of Massalia. With the Sweboz and Romani on the outside.
Talking of the Romans, they're actually advancing down the Illyrian coast of their own accord. KH are building up a regular power base in Asia Minor.
Captain Trek
10-27-2010, 02:08
An opportunity presented itself to avail myself of Burdigala. I'm now thinking if the Karthadastim take Kyrene, I'm going to send an army to relieve them of it. Playing Kyrene as an independent little Greek kingdom in Africa is a lot of fun.
Speaking of Kyrene... in my current Saba game, Kyrene was taken by the Ptollies and what I'm thinking of doing is (because I simply don't have the resources avaliable to provide a garrison for it) taking it and letting it rebel, roleplaying that it represents the Malik handing control of Kyrene back to those who had been in power prior to the Ptollies taking over. This way, I'll have a buffer between myself and the Kart-Hasdat (I plan to do the same thing with the settlement to the south of Kyrene, you see)...
QuintusSertorius
10-27-2010, 02:18
Speaking of Kyrene... in my current Saba game, Kyrene was taken by the Ptollies and what I'm thinking of doing is (because I simply don't have the resources avaliable to provide a garrison for it) taking it and letting it rebel, roleplaying that it represents the Malik handing control of Kyrene back to those who had been in power prior to the Ptollies taking over. This way, I'll have a buffer between myself and the Kart-Hasdat (I plan to do the same thing with the settlement to the south of Kyrene, you see)...
Will it rebel the way you want it to, though? Safer to gift it to another faction (which always works if you're using Force Diplomacy) to make it someone else's problem.
Titus Marcellus Scato
10-27-2010, 10:26
I wonder if I should really give Krete away since it's miles outside my sphere of influence.
I would, since if the RTW engine worked properly on naval invasions, either the KH or the Ptolemies would soon take Krete away from far-off Massilia.
Give it up in exchange for an alliance with either KH or the Ptolemies.
QuintusSertorius
10-27-2010, 10:44
I would, since if the RTW engine worked properly on naval invasions, either the KH or the Ptolemies would soon take Krete away from far-off Massilia.
Give it up in exchange for an alliance with either KH or the Ptolemies.
I'm thinking give it to KH for an alliance, especially since they're a growing power and a counterbalance to both the Makedonians and Seleukids. I'm still allied to the Ptolemies, not sure how much longer that will last once I go for Kyrene. I could use the garrison to take Kyrene.
Captain Trek
10-27-2010, 12:49
Will it rebel the way you want it to, though? Safer to gift it to another faction (which always works if you're using Force Diplomacy) to make it someone else's problem.
I had considered that possibility, yes... The garrison's pretty small though, so auto-resolve and a bit of save-scumming will quickly let me know whether or not I have to go with that option... (as I would much rather it rebel to eleutheroi, if that's at all possible, than gift it to another faction who might raise an army of regionals and attack me)
It will rebel to seleucids or the ptolies if they have build a bigger main (governor) building there since a city always rebels to the faction that build the main building (Kyrene starts with a seleucid one) or to the eleutheroi if it rebels from the faction that build the main building. If you want it to rebel to the eleutheroi you could destroy the faction that build the main building and let it rebel or build a the next level of governor building and then let it rebel.
QuintusSertorius
10-28-2010, 00:30
It will rebel to seleucids or the ptolies if they have build a bigger main (governor) building there since a city always rebels to the faction that build the main building (Kyrene starts with a seleucid one) or to the eleutheroi if it rebels from the faction that build the main building. If you want it to rebel to the eleutheroi you could destroy the faction that build the main building and let it rebel or build a the next level of governor building and then let it rebel.
We're talking about Krete, but yes, the same principle applies. In any case I gave it to KH, only they broke the alliance when the Karthadastim attacked me.
QuintusSertorius
10-28-2010, 22:34
Think I'm going to give this one up. Much as I like playing in that position, fighting AI Rome and AI Qarthadast isn't a lot of fun. Largely because they build totally unrealistic armies (the AI is a lot better with Hellenistic ones) packed with elites. I just had a battle with a Karthadastim full stack which comprised three units of Liby-Phoenician cavalry, three of elite African pikemen, three of those heavy hoplites and a bunch of regular other stuff. Very little regional or mercenary. AI Rome is coming with full stacks of pedites extraordinarii again, and I'm just not in the mood for grinding battles against vastly superior infantry where I might cut a close win if I get lucky. My Gauls just can't endure against that, they don't have the armour or discipline.
If anyone wants my files/saves, let me know I'll post them. But time for the next migrated experiment.
Titus Marcellus Scato
10-29-2010, 10:43
I've just begun experimenting with Roman Triarii and Pedites Extraordinarii cut down to half size, but keeping their recruit and upkeep costs the same. This should make both units unattractive to the AI, encouraging them to build more Principes and Hastati. I also cut Rorarii down to 200 men.
I might need to do something similiar to the elite Carthaginian units.
I've already nerfed all spear and phalanx units by removing 4 attack points from them, also I cut down the long pike phalanx's shield value, since their shields are small.
QuintusSertorius
10-29-2010, 13:00
I might do that anyway; whenever I play as Rome I halve the size of triarii units, halving the pedites extraordinarii sounds reasonable too.
We're talking about Krete, but yes, the same principle applies. In any case I gave it to KH, only they broke the alliance when the Karthadastim attacked me.
I think I answered to that post:
Speaking of Kyrene... in my current Saba game, Kyrene was taken by the Ptollies and what I'm thinking of doing is (because I simply don't have the resources avaliable to provide a garrison for it) taking it and letting it rebel...
Though, it was a bit OT...
To stop the pedites and triari spam you could do something similar to a minimod I once saw (was it part of the city-mod?) and make them only recruitable in rome itself. That should work too. Though I must say, I can't remember fighting so many pedites extraordinarii and trairii like many people say they're fighting. Carthage is another thing, there I see stacks with lots of elites or pure merc stacks (though that's ok for carthies) or stacks with only maures and numidians, but that's because of recruitment areas.
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