View Full Version : Germans to the american right - 'would you cool it with the Hitler references?'
Der Spiegel article (http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,724418,00.html)
So watcha think of it, before the man with the lock goes all rules on you think fast
So watcha think of it, before the man with the lock goes all rules on you think fast
42!!!!
Errr...I mean...
It is just and interesting tidbit...
are the american right-wing 'tea party' uses of the Nazi/Hitler references abusive? yes
..are they constructive dialogue? no
..will the crazies care who they might offend in germany?...i'd say no.
Strike For The South
10-22-2010, 16:05
You killed millions being led by a madman who was pursuing an ideolgy which had no bases in fact\
Quit getting your panties in wad because some Americans 5,000 miles away use hyperbolic messages about him to stir up an apathetic and uniformed populace
Christ.
Nazi references are annoying, always visualise someone poking the argument of doom-stick 'what no aplausse?que?' -pokes again- 'nazi!' Still nothing...
Rhyfelwyr
10-22-2010, 16:10
Happens both ways...
Bush is a Nazi (http://www.google.co.uk/images?q=bush+nazi+picture&um=1&hl=en&tbs=isch:1&ei=VanBTOqZN8jk4gbfpu3fCw&sa=N&start=0&ndsp=20)
gaelic cowboy
10-22-2010, 16:11
are the american right-wing 'tea party' uses of the Nazi/Hitler references abusive? yes
..are they constructive dialogue? no
..will the crazies care who they might offend in germany?...i'd say no.
Should they care about trivialising such things as the Third reich and Hitler? Yes
Will they care no cos they have pretty much infantalized the discussion on there infotainment shows.
Happens both ways...
Bush is a Nazi (http://www.google.co.uk/images?q=bush+nazi+picture&um=1&hl=en&tbs=isch:1&ei=VanBTOqZN8jk4gbfpu3fCw&sa=N&start=0&ndsp=20)
Does that make it ok then
You killed millions being led by a madman who was pursuing an ideolgy which had no bases in fact\
No, I didn't.
I'm offended. :shame:
No, I didn't.
I'm offended. :shame:
As you should be. No free pass for any European nation minus England. Holocaust was European not German
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
10-22-2010, 17:21
Don't blame today's generation for the mistakes of the ''Greatest'' generation.
Vladimir
10-22-2010, 17:26
That's a typical thing for a Fascist oppressor to say. They just want him all to themselves.
Edit: Exactly! Where were these hypocrites during the last administration?
InsaneApache
10-22-2010, 18:11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlmGknvr_Pg
Louis VI the Fat
10-22-2010, 18:30
Der Spiegel article (http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,724418,00.html)I, for one, think this protest below is highly offensive:
https://img838.imageshack.us/img838/6932/image77794galleryv9yyyf.jpg
It trivialises misery. It belongs to a spoiled brat who thinks paying a few dollars more for healthcare amounts to being send to Treblinka. It is an insult to both Obama and to victims of the Holocaust. Likewise, I am also offended by, for example, gamers who say they 'got raped their opponent', when they mean their computer avatar was hit by a virtual bullet.
There is a carelesness to the language that is close to trivialising human misery.
Edit: YOU ARE ALL FASCISTS FOR DISAGREEING WITH ME I'M GOING TO SEND YOU ALL TO DUCKAU
Louis VI the Fat
10-22-2010, 18:44
As you should be. No free pass for any European nation minus England. Holocaust was European not GermanWith all due respect for England's difficulties and war effort, I disagree with your free pass.
The history of those areas UK that were occupied by Germany saw the same mechanisms as elsewhere in Europe, In particular, no protests whatsoever were lodged against German anti-Jewish measures, the local British authorities happily co-operated with the Germans, and the Jewish community was rounded up and shipped off to the gas chambers by the locals.
PanzerJaeger
10-22-2010, 19:17
A whole article about American Hitler references that ignores the Left's constant comparisons during the Bush administration? Really?.... Really?!?
Where were the 'Germans' then (more precisely, one Charles Hawley), out to lunch? I cannot even begin to quantify how many times I heard 9/11 compared to the burning of the Reichstag.
Either the author is ignorant or trying to make a cheap ideological shot, probably a bit of both. The reference to Iott, the reenactor I made a thread about earlier, leads me to beleive he was really reaching to make his point.
On another note, comparing Hitler to Obama is somewhat insulting to Hitler, who was actually a very effective politician until he lost his mental faculties. Obama is more like your typical South American two-bit populist, ushered in on charisma alone and quickly fizzled out.
Sasaki Kojiro
10-22-2010, 19:56
On another note, comparing Hitler to Obama is somewhat insulting to Hitler
I agree about the silly partisan nature of the article, but this!!! :bounce:
gaelic cowboy
10-22-2010, 20:01
Rush of blood to the head there PJ
Turn off the pc take a walk read a book
Louis VI the Fat
10-22-2010, 21:14
There is nothing partisan about the article.
The left simply happens to be in power in the US at the moment. Hence it is currently the left's turn to take public flak, mostly coming from the right. The article is about the easy tossing about of Hitler comparisons in public debate, which is considered offensive to many this side of the Atlantic.
The left is not at all ignored.
A few years ago it was indeed the left which was criticised for easy Hitler references. Germany is not accustomed to wanton comparisons to Hitler. That is, although many taboos are waning, still not really done in public debate. You'll note that the article describes how the very much leftwing German minister of Justice, speaking to very leftwing trade unionists, was forced to resign simply for agreeing that Bush', like Thatcher and Hitler, used war as a welcome distraction from domestic difficulties. This during a rather low ebb in German - American relations.
:yes:
comparing Hitler to Obama is somewhat insulting to Hitler, who was actually a very effective politician until he lost his mental faculties.I disagree. Hitler was a veru effective politician even after losing his mind. No politician in the history of Europe has been as effective as Hitler in bringing such a major power to such a complete moral, economic, military bankruptcy in such a short amount of time.
rory_20_uk
10-22-2010, 21:17
Hitler wasn't alone. by the time he really went off the rails there were enough... monsters around him in power to propagate matters.
~:smoking:
“Holocaust was European not German”
I would disagree. Anti-Semitism was European (well, even not but I will concede it was spread), but Holocaust is specifically Nazi so German at that time.
The only ones who made their own death Camp were the Croats and they even add other victim to the usual list, the Serbs.
Other puppet states did participate on the round up and the deportation but none of them was invited at the Wannsee Conference.
To pretend differently is an attempt to diminish the Nazi responsibility of a unique process, and an attempt to make Nazism banal.
“Hitler, who was actually a very effective politician”
Right. In 1934, in Nuremberg, Hitler promised that in 10 years, you will not recognised the Town. Well, he kept his word: In 1944, Nuremberg was a pile of smoking rubble.
In a little bit more than 10 years, Hitler lead one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful country of Europe to its ruins and under foreign occupation.
So, at what moment did Hitler lost his mind? Before of after the Crystal Night, the Night of the Long Knives, or Operation Barbarossa?
Edit: Exactly! Where were these hypocrites during the last administration?
A whole article about American Hitler references that ignores the Left's constant comparisons during the Bush administration? Really?.... Really?!?
It helps to read a bit further than the introduction:
German politicians are well aware of the dangers of making ill-thought-out references to their country's history. In 2002, then-German Justice Minister Herta Däubler-Gmelin, speaking to the southern German daily Schwäbisches Tagblatt, said in reference to US President George W. Bush's increasingly bellicose rhetoric against Iraq: "Bush wants to distract people from his domestic difficulties. It is a popular method. Hitler did the same thing."
It was the hint of a parallel more than a direct comparison. But Germans, the majority of whom hated Bush even then, were outraged -- and Däubler-Gmelin paid a high price for it. She was forced to resign.
Maybe that wasn't posted in the Backroom but that alone doesn't mean it didn't happen. Not that I would remember it anyway, I wasn't all that interested in politics in 2002.
Rhyfelwyr
10-23-2010, 01:27
Does that make it ok then
Of course not, but both the article and the thread title single out the American right when in fact both sides are guilty of it.
On another note, comparing Hitler to Obama is somewhat insulting to Hitler, who was actually a very effective politician until he lost his mental faculties.
Hitler's national socialism was really just another form of democrat socialism, which is socialist like the Nazi's were with their universal healthcare and gun control laws, so IMO Hitler was a NAZI. Boom! Godwin!
PanzerJaeger
10-23-2010, 01:40
Yes, Hitler made a fatal miscalculation based on faulty intelligence in launching Barbarossa. Up until that moment, he presided over a stunning reversal of fortunes in Germany that saw the chaotic, bankrupt Weimar Republic transform into the world's most productive economy. He was able to win over the German people despite espousing a very radical ideology, consolidate his power, and outsmart both his domestic opposition and the international community leading to the high tide of European conquest in '41. Any argument against his political effectiveness must be based in emotion and not fact.
On the other hand, Barack Obama came to Washington with the biggest mandate since Ron Reagan and almost immediately squandered it. He has had terrible message control, has allowed himself to be torn apart by his opposition, and has been pushed by the military industrial complex into a troop surge in Afghanistan only to have it undermined by succumbing to the demands of the Left. He spent most of his time struggling to pass one major piece of legislation and eventually abandoned it, only to have it revived and pushed through by the very politically effective House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. In terms of pure goal attainment, who looks better? (:grin:)
On the other hand, Barack Obama came to Washington with the biggest mandate since Ron Reagan and almost immediately squandered it.
Yes, the polls clearly demonstrate that Obama and Reagan had no parallels in their Presidencies, none whatsoever. Oh, wait (http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2010/08/24/factbox-obama-poll-slide-mirrors-reagans-midterm-woes/).
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Lemurmania/1009bhovrwr1.jpg
And neither President could ever claim to wreck a country as effectively and totally as Adolf.
PanzerJaeger
10-23-2010, 06:20
Keeping Hope ™ alive as always...
Yes, Hitler made a fatal miscalculation based on faulty intelligence in launching Barbarossa. Up until that moment, he presided over a stunning reversal of fortunes in Germany that saw the chaotic, bankrupt Weimar Republic transform into the world's most productive economy.
What about the decisions to bomb English cities in favor of continual bombardment of English airfields, which basically allowed the RAF to build up again and win the War over Britain?
You say the judgement of him is mostly based on emotions instead of fact, but so was his judgement, he kept abandoning good strategies and not listening to better generals than himself for silly emotional reasons, wasted tons of ressources on "Vergeltungswaffen" to take some silly revenge in a vain attempt to break the enemy morale etc.
He even started the war with Russia not just based on faulty intel but also because he hated the Bolsheviks and the people in the east, because he hated Jews and thought they were all part of some jewish conspiracy etc. Hitler was the one
On the other hand, Barack Obama came to Washington with the biggest mandate since Ron Reagan and almost immediately squandered it.
https://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/husar1985/America-s-Lenin--33768.jpg
Wasn't it partly because the Republicans were blocking every effort he made somehow that he couldn't get anything done?
That's not to say he is better than Clinton of course, but with all the demonstrations against his healthcare reform you should be happy he didn't really get it through, no?
InsaneApache
10-23-2010, 12:59
It's like I said to 'mom' at the time of O'Bamas election. He'll let you down, they always do. Mind you I'm a cynical Englishman and she's a idealistic American. She makes a belting Gumbo though. :yes:
gaelic cowboy
10-23-2010, 13:34
It's like I said to 'mom' at the time of O'Bamas election. He'll let you down, they always do. Mind you I'm a cynical Englishman and she's a idealistic American. She makes a belting Gumbo though. :yes:
There hasnt been an american President who didnt let some section down :yes:
@Brenus, not my intention to downplay anything. Feeding the monster makes you just as guilty imho. Not going to blame the Germans for Hitler, the French for Vichy, and I don't feel guilty for our NSB. I am totally ok with it if todays Germans give the finger.
Of course not, but both the article and the thread title single out the American right when in fact both sides are guilty of it.
Both sides are guilty of it, but not to the same level, and especialy not at the same level of the "chain of command" of each side.
You can find plenty of examples of nuts on both sides of the isle screaming in the middle of the street that Obama or Bush were Hitler-like.
But is the same true on the news media level of things? There have been ample comparisons of Obama to Hitler on Faux News by "reporters" and comentators, even in supposedly serious public debate the idea has crept in, the notion of "death camps" is not without a certain Hitler reference flavour....has any serious tv personality on the left ever accused Bush of being like Hitler???
I personally don´t remember it.
a completely inoffensive name
10-24-2010, 09:33
PJ sometimes you are a reasonable guy, sometimes you exemplify everything that is wrong with America. No fault of your own, I just wish you could take it down from 11 or at least just make 10 higher.
People who doubt Obama should be shot imho
People who doubt Obama should be shot imho
Haven't you heard? He's Hitler, so this is already happening. Also, Congress burned down in a mysterious fire blamed on gypsies. Oh, and we annexed Mexico.
Seamus Fermanagh
10-25-2010, 19:32
Haven't you heard? He's Hitler, so this is already happening. Also, Congress burned down in a mysterious fire blamed on gypsies. Oh, and we annexed Mexico.
We had our chance to annex Mexico. We opted out because a few of us felt a bit guilty over that war in the first place and a good group of others were not willing to let the country become majority Catholic. Hard to say what that would have been like -- probably a good alternate history novel in there somewhere.
Now, onto business. This thread is too Godwinized and heading nowhere. Therefore, I will send it to bed. Feel free to post on other aspects of this issue, but a bit more focus might help.
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