Ah, the "Progressive Left"

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-11658228

Harriet Harmen, former "Equalities Minister" calls the Chief Secretary to the Treasury a "Ginger Rodent".

Where to start?

The Labour Cabinet, Little Hitlers the lot of them.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Harriet Harmen, former "Equalities Minister" calls the Chief Secretary to the Treasury a "Ginger Rodent".

Where to start?Where to start? I say the ginger rodent can start by repaying the British taxpayer the profit our slick ginger made from evading taxes over his taxpayer-funded London house.

[HoreTore]

It is a well-known fact that giners have no souls.

Burn the lot of 'em, I say!!

[HoreTore]

I mean come on; who doesn't like sunshine? I'll tell you who:

Vampires.
Ghosts.



.....And gingers. Coincidence? I think not.

[rory_20_uk]

And the Ginger Scottish parasite should be thrown out of Westminster to where he belongs to the pit north of the border.

~:smoking:

[HoreTore]

Yes, the question we all need to ask ourselves, is this:

Do we really want gingers in our schools, in our communities, infecting our pure, non-ginger kids? If we don't take a stand NOW, we will wake up one day 20 years from now with a disgusting ginger kid as our grandchild....

DO WE REALLY WANT THAT TO HAPPEN??!?

TAKE ACTION NOW - SAY NO TO GINGERS!!!!

[HoreTore]

https://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4625/helpthesegingerkidsthumb.jpg

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

My sister is ginger for three months of the year, and she has freckles.

So......

Stow it.

[rory_20_uk]

Merely as one relative has the plague does not mean that a topic has to be binned.

~:smoking:

[Husar]

ginger picture here

I don't believe anyone who thinks "Mother's" and "Father's" are plural forms....

[Rhyfelwyr]

I am a half-cast, accepted neither in the ginger community nor mainstream society. Having been everywhere and accepted nowhere, my life is a tragic tale of loneliness and rejection. :sad:


And the Ginger Scottish parasite should be thrown out of Westminster to where he belongs to the pit north of the border.

~:smoking:

If this is a serious statement then it is such idiotic attitudes that will destroy the Union and win the day for the "progressive leftists".

[HoreTore]

My sister is ginger for three months of the year, and she has freckles.

So......

Stow it.

KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!!!!

[HoreTore]

I wonder if this will increase my chances with that ginger chick I've been texting all day.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........

[HoreTore]

A ginger kid got knocked down by a lorry outside my house today. Just think - that could've been me.

But I can't drive a lorry.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

So, given that we have established that the Deputy Leader of the Labour Party and Former "Equalities Minister" is a bit of a bigot and certainly a hypocrite (check some of the other things she said in that speech) HoreTore has resorted to racist trolling.

Kudos for proving be right, Leftie.

[HoreTore]

So, given that we have established that the Deputy Leader of the Labour Party and Former "Equalities Minister" is a bit of a bigot and certainly a hypocrite (check some of the other things she said in that speech) HoreTore has resorted to racist trolling.

Kudos for proving be right, Leftie.

I have only one thing to say to this:

https://img521.imageshack.us/img521/4259/78152818.jpg

[InsaneApache]

As our former Great Leader would have said, "That bigoted woman!".

Sums up the 'progressives' in a nutshell.

[tibilicus]

Didn't Red Ed, the new Labour leader call for a "grown up political debate" in response to his nickname? And yet Labour et al still throw around the term "ConDem nation" like there's no tomorrow. What can you expect from the Labour hypocrisy? It's pretty much all they have left as a political party though, knuckle dragging and mud slinging.

Then again, that old Labour hero Nye Bevan once refer to the Tories as " lower than vermin" so the old "progressive" party has a fine tradition of insults and slurs.

[PanzerJaeger]

The 'Equalities Minister'? I don't know if you could get more Orwellian without trying.

[Louis VI the Fat]

The reaction by Danny Alexander, the 'ginger' Chief Secretary to the Treasury is in:




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vzgemq-sMQM&feature=related


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY39fkmqKBM

[Beskar]

This topic is lost on me.

Especially the part where people actually cared about Harriet Harman other than to mock her stupidity in comments and actions.

[Fragony]

Ginger rodent rofl sorry I have a weak spot for insults. But yeah it's pretty bad and illustrates how one-sided these people are. The left is an evil stepmother that really hates your guts for messing up her illusion of a perfect family, and boy can she get vicious.

[Husar]

The reaction by Danny Alexander, the 'ginger' Chief Secretary to the Treasury is in:

That was only funny up to the part where he said he considered suicide...

[HoreTore]

That was only funny up to the part where he said he considered suicide...

One less ginger in the world; the world is happy.

[Fragony]

The reaction by Danny Alexander, the 'ginger' Chief Secretary to the Treasury is in:




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vzgemq-sMQM&feature=related


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY39fkmqKBM

Attitude is key https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JhY7176qJs

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Didn't Red Ed, the new Labour leader call for a "grown up political debate" in response to his nickname? And yet Labour et al still throw around the term "ConDem nation" like there's no tomorrow. What can you expect from the Labour hypocrisy? It's pretty much all they have left as a political party though, knuckle dragging and mud slinging.

Then again, that old Labour hero Nye Bevan once refer to the Tories as " lower than vermin" so the old "progressive" party has a fine tradition of insults and slurs.

Was it Daniel Hannen who recently wrote in the Guardian that the hatred of the "Progressive" Left was decidedly unprogreesive? Some of the comments he got were quite extraordinary. His conclusion was that the Left (rather like extreme religious sects) is a magnet for misanphropes who want to feel good about hating people.

I'll let you in on a little secret, the real reason I'm Right-Wing is I just can't get behind the hate-mo ngering of the Left.


I have only one thing to say to this:

https://img521.imageshack.us/img521/4259/78152818.jpg

If all you have offer is trolling verging on Racism I'll thank you to take a running jump out of my topic.

[Fragony]

I'll let you in on a little secret, the real reason I'm Right-Wing is I just can't get behind the hate-mo ngering of the Left.

I can relate, these self-congratulating self-appointed morally superior gutmenschen are vicious like only females can be. If you tried explaining to her that it's nasty she won't be able to understand, she feels she has the right because she feels superior. Kinda funny how they become what they say they are against, the ubermensch.

[Furunculus]

I'll let you in on a little secret, the real reason I'm Right-Wing is I just can't get behind the hate-mo ngering of the Left.


so very true:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jul/04/we-are-not-xenophobes-europhiles

[Furunculus]

or for another:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/oct/26/unfair-criticism-of-tory-cuts

There are lots of inadequates in this world who, dimly aware of their own failings, attempt to shield themselves and their social circle from this truth by donning the mantle of a cause, usually one deemed universally to be a 'good' thing. By stridently adopting the arguments of the 'good' cause they hope to banish these blemishes from self and circle.

Young left-wing firebrands are almost a case study in this phenomenon, as being socially 'nice' to people is the ultimate 'good' cause and thus unconsciously or otherwise is perceived as the most potent social camouflage.

Our refusal to give credence to their ideas by reflecting the same hatred as they hold for us only makes that hatred more visceral.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Oh dear.

For the sake of my newly restored equanimity chaps, let's address the core of Philipvs' opening post rather than post mindless insults aimed at whichever group one finds risible.

Thank you kindly. :bow:

[HoreTore]

If all you have offer is trolling verging on Racism I'll thank you to take a running jump out of my topic.

This comment(along with much else in this thread) is so surreal it's bordering on the paranormal. Can someone verify that Philipvs hasn't been abducted by an alien probe-patrol and replaced by an impersonator?



Seriously, we all have the need from time to call someone a :daisy: head. I don't think anyone should care that strong language apparently offends weak, christian hearts.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

This comment(along with much else in this thread) is so surreal it's bordering on the paranormal. Can someone verify that Philipvs hasn't been abducted by an alien probe-patrol and replaced by an impersonator?

The prejudice against Red-haired people is an anti-Celtic racial slur going back to the Romans and more recently employed by the English against the Irish. Ginger jokes are basically racist, they poke fun at a charactaristic which is a racial marker, just like comments about Africans being "thicklipped" - even Shakespeare saw that one as racist.


Seriously, we all have the need from time to call someone a :daisy: head. I don't think anyone should care that strong language apparently offends weak, christian hearts.

Speak for yourself. Funnilly enough someone called me a "Tory :daisy:head on election night because I voted for our local (Tory) MP rather than the Lib-Dem incomer.

Your comments about ginger people are something I am just as sick of as comments against anyone not left-of-centre, or anyone not an atheist.

You could use a racial slur against a black person.

You couldn't get away with calling a left-winger evil.

You can't get away with pointing out Hitler and his ideaology were atheistic (when the Pope did this one the New Atheists screamed bloody murder, despite them mounting a months-long hate campaign against him in exactly that vein.)

I abhor double-standards and hypocricy.

[HoreTore]

I abhor double-standards and hypocricy.

Quoted for extreme hilarity!

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Quoted for extreme hilarity!

I dare you to substantiate that.

[HoreTore]

I dare you to substantiate that.

I'm clueless as to where to start, sorry.

Edit: but hey, I've seen some people argue that Loserpool is actually a good team too, so compared to that, the claims in this thread aint all that bad....

[Louis VI the Fat]

The sad thing is, we all know Harman, the equality minister, would never dare to even think of making jokes about female dogs. 'Scotland must keep its bitches in their place'.
Europe and the UK are overrun by black squirrels. These are non-native to the British ecosystem, an American import. They have made the red/ginger squirrel an endangered species. Of course, Harman would never ever joke about an African Secretary of Treasure: 'But there's one black rodent we never want to see in the Highlands of Scotland...'


It is the eternal problem of the PC / equality movement. These are emancipation movements, they view the world from the bottom up. Racism is what the man at the top does to the men below, sexism is what men do to women, Harriet Harman would die of indignation if somebody were to speak of Black politicians as 'undesirable black rodents'. She'd scream for his resignation and put his kids in re-education camp. Yet when she was preparing her text, not a single alarm went off in her head about the enormity of what she was about to say about a white man. It is not at all coincidental that it should be a former equality minister who should've made these comments.

The whole philosophy ought to die out. It belongs to the 1990s, two decades ago, back when every literary studies department had a 'Black Queen' at its head, preferably lesbian and resembling Whoopi Goldberg, because only black women were unsuspect.

[HoreTore]

The sad thing is, we all know Harman, the equality minister, would never dare to even think of making jokes about female dogs. 'Scotland must keep its bitches in their place'.
Europe and the UK are overrun by black squirrels. These are non-native to the British ecosystem, an American import. They have made the red/ginger squirrel an endangered species. Of course, Harman would never ever joke about an African Secretary of Treasure: 'But there's one black rodent we never want to see in the Highlands of Scotland...'


It is the eternal problem of the PC / equality movement. These are emancipation movements, they view the world from the bottom up. Racism is what the man at the top does to the men below, sexism is what men do to women, Harriet Harman would die of indignation if somebody were to speak of Black politicians as 'undesirable black rodents'. She'd scream for his resignation and put his kids in re-education camp. Yet when she was preparing her text, not a single alarm went off in her head about the enormity of what she was about to say about a white man. It is not at all coincidental that it should be a former equality minister who should've made these comments.

The whole philosophy ought to die out. It belongs to the 1990s, two decades ago, back when every literary studies department had a 'Black Queen' at its head, preferably lesbian and resembling Whoopi Goldberg, because only black women were unsuspect.

A common way people make up insults, is that they take a feature from the person they want to offend and add a bad word. Skin colour, age, sex, habits, etc etc.

So, we end up with terms like "you black asshole!" and "you old hag!". It's not supposed to be PC, it's supposed to be a a bloody insult.


And having said that, how someone can read politics into the insults people fling at people they despise is, quite frankly, beyond me. I can happily put extreme pressure on the "Fag"-part of Dag Eilev FAGermo's name because I hate him more than words can describe, but that has absolutely NOTHING to do with my stance on homosexuals, and I don't see why anyone would think that it has.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I'm clueless as to where to start, sorry.

Edit: but hey, I've seen some people argue that Loserpool is actually a good team too, so compared to that, the claims in this thread aint all that bad....

Substantiate or withdraw.


The sad thing is, we all know Harman, the equality minister, would never dare to even think of making jokes about female dogs. 'Scotland must keep its bitches in their place'.
Europe and the UK are overrun by black squirrels. These are non-native to the British ecosystem, an American import. They have made the red/ginger squirrel an endangered species. Of course, Harman would never ever joke about an African Secretary of Treasure: 'But there's one black rodent we never want to see in the Highlands of Scotland...'


It is the eternal problem of the PC / equality movement. These are emancipation movements, they view the world from the bottom up. Racism is what the man at the top does to the men below, sexism is what men do to women, Harriet Harman would die of indignation if somebody were to speak of Black politicians as 'undesirable black rodents'. She'd scream for his resignation and put his kids in re-education camp. Yet when she was preparing her text, not a single alarm went off in her head about the enormity of what she was about to say about a white man. It is not at all coincidental that it should be a former equality minister who should've made these comments.

The whole philosophy ought to die out. It belongs to the 1990s, two decades ago, back when every literary studies department had a 'Black Queen' at its head, preferably lesbian and resembling Whoopi Goldberg, because only black women were unsuspect.

As ever, the Frenchman puts it much better than the Englishman, but the Englishman said it first!

(racial overtones added for Irony, I agree with Loius - this is sad and out of date).


A common way people make up insults, is that they take a feature from the person they want to offend and add a bad word. Skin colour, age, sex, habits, etc etc.

So, we end up with terms like "you black asshole!" and "you old hag!". It's not supposed to be PC, it's supposed to be a a bloody insult.


And having said that, how someone can read politics into the insults people fling at people they despise is, quite frankly, beyond me. I can happily put extreme pressure on the "Fag"-part of Dag Eilev FAGermo's name because I hate him more than words can describe, but that has absolutely NOTHING to do with my stance on homosexuals, and I don't see why anyone would think that it has.

So you don't hate Gays, but you think insinuating someone is one is a good insult?

There's a fundamental disconect there.

Maybe you just put too much effort into hating and insulti ng people.

[Fragony]

If you take out a single feature, let's say the flat nose of blacks, and use it in a negative way this same woman will claw out your eyes Horetore. It's amazing to me that you can't see the double standard here. Try 'black rodent', or 'arab rodent', feels the same? Doesn't huh. Reverse racism, whites are superior after all?

Come to mommy nigger good boy

[Beskar]

Nothing really more to say other than Louis was right (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?131434-Ah-the-quot-Progressive-Left-quot&p=2053222324&viewfull=1#post2053222324).

[gaelic cowboy]

Louis is spot on here nuff said.

[HoreTore]

So you don't hate Gays, but you think insinuating someone is one is a good insult?

There's a fundamental disconect there.

Maybe you just put too much effort into hating and insulti ng people.

Insults are spontenaous.

@Frags: yes it will probably cause a stir in the oublic, all public insults usually do(like "ginger rodent"), but for crying out loud, we've all said stuff like that. I'm a leftie, and I see no racism in a guy who refers to a guy he dislikes as a "black :daisy:". Now, if he was to refer to all africans that way, I'd go for racism.

But seriously, if someone knocks a friend or yours down for no reason, then you are allowed to not like him and call the bastard names. I actually believe being a little emotional from time to time can be very healthy for your overall mental health....

[Fragony]

A rodent is a pest, pests should be exterminated.

[Furunculus]

Insults are spontenaous.

@Frags: yes it will probably cause a stir in the oublic, all public insults usually do(like "ginger rodent"), but for crying out loud, we've all said stuff like that. I'm a leftie, and I see no racism in a guy who refers to a guy he dislikes as a "black :daisy:". Now, if he was to refer to all africans that way, I'd go for racism.

But seriously, if someone knocks a friend or yours down for no reason, then you are allowed to not like him and call the bastard names. I actually believe being a little emotional from time to time can be very healthy for your overall mental health....

surprisingly, i find myself with horetore here.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Even if HoreTore is right in that we could be more relaxed about these things, the point about the double standard still stands. What would the reaction have been if Palin had a rush of blood to the head and called Obama a "dumb nigger" or something like that?

[rory_20_uk]

This was a speech, was it not? I imagine it had several drafts before being finalised. No hot headed outburst here, but a rodent-themed speech.

Dumb nigger would be inappropriate as he is not dumb. Aloof, disconnected, arrogant would all be more appropriate.

~:smoking:

[Fragony]

Even if HoreTore is right in that we could be more relaxed about these things, the point about the double standard still stands. What would the reaction have been if Palin had a rush of blood to the head and called Obama a "dumb nigger" or something like that?

Horetore is right in so far that rightwingers should be used to insult by now. I would absolutely considder it racist if someone calls a black a black :daisy:, and I would be pretty shocked if a politician did so. I'm all 'get over it' as well it's normal leftists get poisonous when you don't agree, but it really really annoys me nevertheless

[InsaneApache]

New Labour has enormous form on hypocrisy. This is not the first time that Harriden Harperson has got bent out of shape. Remember her calls for all women shortlists? That is, of course, unless you are her husband and want to get a safe seat in Parliament.

Then there's racist Dianne Abbott, who thinks that black mothers are superior to other colours of mothers.

Don't even mention the fact that these bastards who hobbled the working classes by abolishing grammar schools send their kids to fee paying schools. So it's ok to discrininate against merit as long as you have the money. Very council house I'm sure.

I recall a post a few years ago, by English assasin if memory serves. It recounts the cabinet room the day after the Freedom of Information Act came into force. One cabinet member turned to another and said, "What! You mean it applies to us?"

Says it all.

The modern left movement gets itself in all sorts of knots. Promotiing 'wimmins issues' unless they come into conflict with 'multiculterism'. So that female circumcision is promoted as culterally diverse, as is covering them up in a bin bag. It must be hell to live inside a lefties head. It makes me dizzy just thinking about it. :dizzy2:

[al Roumi]

Arriving somewhat late to the flamewar party, I would like to make two comments and a couple of observations:

Comment:
1. Quite happy for Hattie Harman to be thrown to the wolves.
2. Oh dear, Labour is really not going to make the most of the weaknesses of the Coalition if this is their idea of opposition.

Observations, extra to the earlier mentioned "lack of soul" possessed by ginger people, I have it on hearsay good information that:
1. they are more aerodynamic than non-gingers
2. they smell of pee

[rory_20_uk]

They have a lower density of hair follicles....

~:smoking:

[Strike For The South]

The red hair makes them predisposed to sin and they should all be rounded up and sent to new zeeland. Where they can only hurt kiwis. Im ok with that

[Louis VI the Fat]

Kiwis....mocked and poked fun at. Just for being different. Just because they are differently abled, made for the undergrowth instead of for flying. What's so funny about that!?


Even a kiwi dreams, as witness one of my favourite shorts:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdUUx5FdySs

[gaelic cowboy]

Take that back Strike those little Kiwis rock us red heads would never harm them


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YViBVvjn5K4

[HoreTore]

Even if HoreTore is right in that we could be more relaxed about these things, the point about the double standard still stands. What would the reaction have been if Palin had a rush of blood to the head and called Obama a "dumb nigger" or something like that?

You mean we haven't seen enough "Obama is Hitler"-signs by now....?

[Fragony]

You mean we haven't seen enough "Obama is Hitler"-signs by now....?

Oh common, it's stupid but it isn't exactly new to call political opponents Hitler. I don't agree with it but the left certainly is better at handing it out than recieving. Clue 'Ginger rodent'

[Rhyfelwyr]

You mean we haven't seen enough "Obama is Hitler"-signs by now....?

Not being held by a mainstream politician, no, that is the whole point...

[HoreTore]

Not being held by a mainstream politician, no, that is the whole point...

Ah yes, I forgot; right-wingers prefer to just praise the ones who hold the signs, being too cowardly to say the actual words themselves....

Because that's so much better.


EDIT: And this thread is, of course, a shining example of how conservatives never fling insults at their political opponents....or something....

[The Stranger]

Kiwis....mocked and poked fun at. Just for being different. Just because they are differently abled, made for the undergrowth instead of for flying. What's so funny about that!?


Even a kiwi dreams, as witness one of my favourite shorts:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdUUx5FdySs

how cute is that!! kamikazi kiwi!!!

[Skullheadhq]

If you take out a single feature, let's say the flat nose of blacks, and use it in a negative way this same woman will claw out your eyes Horetore. It's amazing to me that you can't see the double standard here. Try 'black rodent', or 'arab rodent', feels the same? Doesn't huh. Reverse racism, whites are superior after all?

Come to mommy nigger good boy

Gingers aren't a race.

[InsaneApache]

Gingers (http://www.londonslang.com/db/g/) aren't a race.

Aw get you sweety. I'll scratch your eyes out. ~:flirt: :cheerleader:

[The Stranger]

the comment wasnt racist because it wasnt universal. had she said all gingers are rodents she was being racist, now she was just being stupid and possibly insulting. (i say possibly because an insult insnt an insult untill someone is insulted, funny enough, usually people who arent being "insulted" are more instulted by an insult than those who are targeted by the insult...)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

A
And having said that, how someone can read politics into the insults people fling at people they despise is, quite frankly, beyond me. I can happily put extreme pressure on the "Fag"-part of Dag Eilev FAGermo's name because I hate him more than words can describe, but that has absolutely NOTHING to do with my stance on homosexuals, and I don't see why anyone would think that it has.

It's pretty common sense :shrug:


Abstract Biased language related to sexual orientation is
used frequently among students and is related to prominent
social concerns such as bullying. Prejudice toward gay,
lesbian, bisexual, and transgender individuals also has been
examined among adolescents, but separately from these
behaviors. This study tested whether biased language use
was associated with bullying and dominance irrespective of
sexual prejudice or if sexual prejudice moderated these
associations among 290 high school students (50% female;
56% White). Sexual prejudice was associated with biased
language use among boys only. Biased language was
associated with bullying regardless of levels of sexual
prejudice for boys. However, this association was depen-
dent on sexual prejudice for girls. For dominance behavior,
its association with biased language was moderated by
sexual prejudice for boys, but not girls. However, girls’
engagement in all behaviors was significantly less than
boys. These results indicate nuanced ways in which mul-
tiple factors contribute to the use of sexual orientation
biased language. Also, they underscore the need to address
biased language and prejudice as part of anti-bullying
programs.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Not sure whether I should be happy that this thread has developed as it has despite a "Godwin" in the OP, or give it up as a lost effort because it is so spotty despite Banquo's gentle prodding.

I'll leave it open for now, but please note that this thread is teetering on the verge of oblivion.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Gingers aren't a race.


the comment wasnt racist because it wasnt universal. had she said all gingers are rodents she was being racist, now she was just being stupid and possibly insulting. (i say possibly because an insult insnt an insult untill someone is insulted, funny enough, usually people who arent being "insulted" are more instulted by an insult than those who are targeted by the insult...)

I dissagree here. Being ginger in the UK is associated with being Gaelic, and all the oppression (real or imagined) that entails. Danny Alexander is a Scot, his red hair is a racial marker, unless you think racism can only be between people of radically different skin tones.

[The Stranger]

wait, i might have made a mistake in my phrasing. the comment wasnt discriminating. and while it is racist in the sense that it indeed implies racial markers and differences (in which way making the distinction between that "white" man and that "black" man is also racist) it isnt racist in the way that tributes a certain attribute to a group (eg all negroes are lazy or all gingers are rodents)

[InsaneApache]

I think you're missing the point. The person who made the comment was, until 6 months ago, the minisiter for equalities.

[The Stranger]

im not missing the point. she could be god for all i care... whoever uttered the phrase is something different than the type of phrase uttered and has nothing to do with each other.

ofcourse this makes her behaviour hypocrite, or dubious to say the least but it doesnt make the comment discriminating.

the question that needs to be answered is: did she call him a rodent because he is ginger (discriminating because it insinuates that when someone is a ginger, he is a rodent) or did she call him a "ginger rodent" because she thinks he is a rodent who just happens to be a ginger one (insulting, possibly rascist, but not discriminating)

i understand though that as a former minister of equalities such a remark which will put u in this spot isnt a very smart one to make, you have to be wilders to make such remarks and get away with it.

[InsaneApache]

Is'n't everything discriminating?

[The Stranger]

Is'n't everything discriminating?

i dont know what ur definition of discriminating is but it isnt the same as distingushing... u can distinguish a person on persenal attributes as well as universal attributes, you cannot discriminate a person on personal attributes...

but i might get mixed up in the language here

all gingers are rodents is discriminating

he is a rodent is not discriminating

all mexicans are lazy is discriminating

he is lazy isnt

[Rhyfelwyr]

Ah yes, I forgot; right-wingers prefer to just praise the ones who hold the signs, being too cowardly to say the actual words themselves....

Because that's so much better.

BBBBBBBBUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT...

Nah, I ain't biting.


I dissagree here. Being ginger in the UK is associated with being Gaelic, and all the oppression (real or imagined) that entails. Danny Alexander is a Scot, his red hair is a racial marker, unless you think racism can only be between people of radically different skin tones.

And a silly association it is today. It is well known that lighter shades of hair colour indicate pure Germanic blood, as opposed to the pitch black hair of the Gaels, who are descended from Basques, and in turn Africans, quite removed from the more civilized European races.

[gaelic cowboy]

And a silly association it is today. It is well known that lighter shades of hair colour indicate pure Germanic blood, as opposed to the pitch black hair of the Gaels, who are descended from Basques, and in turn Africans, quite removed from the more civilized European races.

That should read pre Gaelic or Celtic basically pre Indo-European there Rhy at least for UK and Ireland it should at the latest early bronze age I would say.

[HoreTore]

I think you're missing the point. The person who made the comment was, until 6 months ago, the minisiter for equalities.

....And that means she can't be angry at someone and insult them?

I think you're confusing minister for equalities with angels....

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

And a silly association it is today. It is well known that lighter shades of hair colour indicate pure Germanic blood, as opposed to the pitch black hair of the Gaels, who are descended from Basques, and in turn Africans, quite removed from the more civilized European races.

Nahhhhh, Pitch Black is the other Celts; like me.

Not the Jonny-come-latelies like you.

[Rhyfelwyr]

That should read pre Gaelic or Celtic basically pre Indo-European there Rhy at least for UK and Ireland it should at the latest early bronze age I would say.

Pre-Gaelic? But the jet black hair comes from the whole Mil of Spain (northern Spain eg Basque country) thing, not the earlier inhabitants.


Nahhhhh, Pitch Black is the other Celts; like me.

Not the Jonny-come-latelies like you.

But you live in Cornwall... they are a P-Celtic people, same as Scottish Picts and Ulster Cruithin, and it is well known that their characteristics are the lighter hair and larger build as described by Tacitus.

It is just common sense that the Goidils/Gaels should have darker hair, since they come from the same Q-Celtic language group as the Celtiberians.

[gaelic cowboy]

Pre-Gaelic? But the jet black hair comes from the whole Mil of Spain (northern Spain eg Basque country) thing, not the earlier inhabitants.

Those people from Mil or Spain of Celt Iberian or wahtever you wish to call it were not Gaelic the Gaels are an Indo-European race and hence of lighter hair and skin tone same as the Germanic and Nordic races.

The darker shades of both hair and skin tone of which maybe 70 or 80 percent of the genetic makeup still exits not just in Ireland and the Basque region but in the UK at large is from basically a pre Indo-European culture.

These people would have been the first people around here and they or there descendents bulit things like Stonehenge and Newgrange by the time the Celts arrived in Ireland the passage tomb in Newgrange was probably covered over with soil by the passage of time.

Of course the Gaels had black hair as well as blond and red but then I not arguing against that all I am saying is that the legacy of hair colour which is determined by genes was laid down before the Celts.

[gaelic cowboy]

gah double post

[Rhyfelwyr]

These people would have been the first people around here and they or there descendents bulit things like Stonehenge and Newgrange by the time the Celts arrived in Ireland the passage tomb in Newgrange was probably covered over with soil by the passage of time.

Of course the Gaels had black hair as well as blond and red but then I not arguing against that all I am saying is that the legacy of hair colour which is determined by genes was laid down before the Celts.

Yeah we can both agree there were people around long before the first documented migrations took place, the question is how far the genetic influence of these groups...


Those people from Mil or Spain of Celt Iberian or wahtever you wish to call it were not Gaelic the Gaels are an Indo-European race and hence of lighter hair and skin tone same as the Germanic and Nordic races.

The darker shades of both hair and skin tone of which maybe 70 or 80 percent of the genetic makeup still exits not just in Ireland and the Basque region but in the UK at large is from basically a pre Indo-European culture.

The term 'Gael' is usually applied to all the inhabitants of Ireland, whether of pre Indo-European, Celtiberian, Belgic, Norse, whatever roots. But the dominant group that have historically charactarised the Gaels (and something promoted by Irish nationalists to distinguish themselves from the rest of the British Isles) is the idea that all Irish are descended from Mil of Spain, and share Basque heritage (further promoted because of ideologies links between Irish republicans and Basque nationalists), and in turn African heritage, making them completely distinct from the Germanic British people.

It is I believe even a matter of some controversy as to whether the Gaels should be considered a Celtic people at all, separating them from the P-Celtic Britons/Picts/Cruithin etc entirely.

Hmm... this has actually turned into a serious discussion... I was just making silly patriotic references at first, I was talking more about the significance of what common perceptions/myths say about national identity, as opposed to the reality of the science behind it.

Certainly, Ireland seems to be noticably further away from the Germanic sphere of infleunce on the genetic map than the UK as a whole:

https://img830.imageshack.us/img830/6617/geneticmap.jpg (https://img830.imageshack.us/i/geneticmap.jpg/)

Interestingly, despite the myth of Scotland as part of a 'Celtic fringe' used by modern day Scottish nationalists to make Scotland distinct from England, it would appear Scotland is even more Germanic than the UK as a whole. This actually supports all that funny 18th century rhetoric where Scottish unionists combined their unionism with a sort of Scottish patriotism (NOT nationalism), in arguing they were the more 'pure' British than the English were.

Kind of reminds me how the British Isrealists used to have this idea of Scotland and England being one people, like the two kingdoms of Israel and Judah, destined to be reunited as God's chosen people. Heh, given Scotland's stricter Protestantism and 'purer' Germanic heritage, you could say Scotland is like Judah, smaller, more backward and nationalist and truer to God than it's more cosmopolitan twin kingdom to the north. And so England is like the northern kingdom of Israel/Ephraim, 'polluted' with Gentile blood and practices (seen by it's less pure Germanic heritage and loosness in religion). To take it even further, you could note that the Irish immigration was similar to the Edomites pouring into Judah in what came Idumea. But unlike Israel/England that was integrated with these foreign peoples, Judah/Scotland fought with them constantly on order to remain true to God.

But I'm just having some fun here, don't take this seriously. :sweatdrop:

National identity is a weird and wonderful business isn't it...

[gaelic cowboy]

The genetic map you show there actually proves my point just cos we define ourselves Celtic does not mean we are genetically Celtic. Most academic stuff I ever read or heard on telly posits the earlier genes survived and the local people merged or converted to a small more advanced iron working culture.

My guess but I cannot obviously prove it would be that iron gave the newer people an economic advantage as it would be easier to find and maintain than bronze which is expensive stuff due to it being an alloy or copper and tin.

Shortage of the alloys for bronze would have put pressure on there culture the more plentiful iron and the invention of charcoal allowed the more difficult casting of iron to become easier.

Don't worry I know you don't take it seriously I just noted it because other people read these forums and I am fascinated by all this stuff I especially love the economic and engineering side of history as they tend to piggyback each other.

[Louis VI the Fat]

And a silly association it is today. It is well known that lighter shades of hair colour indicate pure Germanic blood, as opposed to the pitch black hair of the Gaels, who are descended from Basques, and in turn Africans, quite removed from the more civilized European races.The Celts are not descendants of Basque-related peoples. The Celts overthrew them.

There is something funny about this entire history: the original inhabitants are Basque-related 'pre-Celtic' peoples, who were overrun by Celts, who were themselves conquered by and mixed with Romans, who were subsequently overran by Germanic tribes, who settled in different numbers in different areas.

The fun is, that is the basic etno-historical story of both France and of the isle of Britain. Yet whereas the British attribute fair skin to the Germanic component, in France it is the Celtic component that is associated with blue eyes, while the Germanic component is downplayed a bit.
A nationalist Frenchman thinks himself a Celtic 'Gaul', the way a nationalist Englishman thinks himself a Germanic 'Anglo-Saxon'.

[gaelic cowboy]

The Celts are not descendants of Basque-related peoples. The Celts overthrew them.



overthrew is a strong word Louis I would say they were submerged into a newer culture after they earlier people had effectively changed sides.

Also I have a bug bear about this "They came from Spain thing" the people from the Basque region are just the only people left who match us closely that doe not mean that is where the Celts in Ireland came from.

Basically an aristocratic Celtic layer was deposited on top of an earlier culture the nature of kinship and marriage in the Celtic world meant they effectively had a proto-caste system so the earlier genetic legacy survived.

[Rhyfelwyr]

The genetic map you show there actually proves my point just cos we define ourselves Celtic does not mean we are genetically Celtic.

But doesn't the map show Ireland to be further from the Germans/Dutch etc, with the UK being in between? Wouldn't that make Ireland more Celtic?


Most academic stuff I ever read or heard on telly posits the earlier genes survived and the local people merged or converted to a small more advanced iron working culture.

My guess but I cannot obviously prove it would be that iron gave the newer people an economic advantage as it would be easier to find and maintain than bronze which is expensive stuff due to it being an alloy or copper and tin.

Shortage of the alloys for bronze would have put pressure on there culture the more plentiful iron and the invention of charcoal allowed the more difficult casting of iron to become easier.

Don't worry I know you don't take it seriously I just noted it because other people read these forums and I am fascinated by all this stuff I especially love the economic and engineering side of history as they tend to piggyback each other.

Aye, I think there is a growing trend amongst archeologists/historians etc in realising that the supposed mass migrations that led to the mass displacement of the native people were in fact nothing like that - instead, the groups seem to have merged. Or as it turns out, it is now even more likely that there was very little migration at all, but instead there was a takeover at the elite level, which allowed the newcomers to impose their culture without reshaping the genetic pool.

I was taught last year by a professor who is poineering these ideas in regards to the kingdom of Dal Riata. Traditionally it had been thought that the Irish tribes replaced the native P-Celtic peoples (a mix of Pict and Brythonic around the relevant area of Scotland), however now it seems that all that happened was an Irish dynasty took over the leadership of the tribes, and that even then the cultural similarities were in fact the result of a much longer process of shared development between the peoples of Ireland and western Scotland (due to the fact we tend to see the sea as a divide nowadays, when in fact that was the best way to travel in those days given the inland geography).

So I think in the future we will see a lot of similar challenges to supposed mass migrations... whether of Gaels to Scotland, Celtiberians to Ireland, Saxons to England etc...


The Celts are not descendants of Basque-related peoples. The Celts overthrew them.

Maybe there is some confusion here over whether a Goidil constitutes a Celt, but the common myth was that the Goidils that supposedly came over with Mil of Spain are those Basque people from Celtiberia with what some consider to be a Celtic culture. For Irish nationalists, the idea was that they were all descended from Mil of Spain, and that the earlier inhabitants were insignificant.

Earlier peoples like the Fir Bolg, which some have claimed had the characteristics of jet black hair etc, are now thought to be descended from the Belgae.

[Strike For The South]

Jesus in a handbasket does it really matter?

[gaelic cowboy]

Jesus in a handbasket does it really matter?

No it does not matter a bit in the slightest Strike hence most Irish people have not a clue of any of this Celtic/pre-Celtic lark at all at all.

However the problem is the loons run the agenda here in terms of race and culture and people are actually killed over it.

[Strike For The South]

No it does not matter a bit in the slightest Strike hence most Irish people have not a clue of any of this Celtic/pre-Celtic lark at all at all.

However the problem is the loons run the agenda here in terms of race and culture and people are actually killed over it.

All I know is the Irish would sooner drink the day away than put in honest hard labor.

Oh and they like potatoes.

[gaelic cowboy]

All I know is the Irish would sooner drink the day away than put in honest hard labor.

Oh and they like potatoes.

That is because drinking is serious business here Strike don't you know that well have none of yer oul American frat boy antics here thank you very much.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYudr9FAGOA

[Fragony]

wait, i might have made a mistake in my phrasing. the comment wasnt discriminating. and while it is racist in the sense that it indeed implies racial markers and differences (in which way making the distinction between that "white" man and that "black" man is also racist) it isnt racist in the way that tributes a certain attribute to a group (eg all negroes are lazy or all gingers are rodents)

But if a comment like that was made in association with a black men's curly hear they would squeeze out every drop of demonising potential. Nobody cares about the actual insult except youtube star Ginger Kid perhaps. It's the hypocrisy that's annoying.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Jesus in a handbasket does it really matter?

The historical legends of the ethnic origins of small peoples on the edge of Europe is the single most significant, pressing, and relevant issue in the world today.

[The Stranger]

But if a comment like that was made in association with a black men's curly hear they would squeeze out every drop of demonising potential. Nobody cares about the actual insult except youtube star Ginger Kid perhaps. It's the hypocrisy that's annoying.

i never said it wasnt hypocrite... i was just referring that the label discriminating was wrong. i think i have made that clear enough now :P