Worst Grey Death ever!

[Blxz]

Ok, this is my current roman Campaign 230BC and the Arche Seleukeia has gone berserk.

https://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af98/Blxz/greydeathmini.jpg

Have driven the Makedones out of Asia Minor and are going to take Byzantion in the next few turns. I honestly don't think I can beat this faction when it comes down to it. They have massive fullstacks everywhere. Fun times.

Any tips on how I should counter this?

EDIT: Of special note around the world:
-Aedui have almost destroyed the Sweboz my allies even as I madly kill them to stop another grey death forming (worlds first green death?).
-Ptolemeys only exist as a single settlement on the red sea coast.
-Epirotes and makedones are nicely sharing greece right down the middle.
-Baktria just made the worst mistake of its history and finally broke the start of game alliance for the first time. Multiple AS fullstacks surround most Baktrian towns.... =(
-Casse didn't do anything in this game for once =P

DOUBLE EDIT: Also, thats the Carthies in Egypt not the AS....yet

[SwissBarbar]

weird

[Cute Wolf]

Upload your savegame PLZ :grin:
RTW? BI? ALEX? comeon!!!!
I'd love to beat those AS's

[QuintusSertorius]

This sort of domination by a handful of factions is why I intervene early in the game rather than leave the AI factions entirely to their own devices. Both by underhand means (console, Force Diplomacy) and more direct (punitive raids, wars in defense of failing factions, etc).

If a faction dies, it makes the game less interesting to me. Invariably I try to resurrect them in another region before that happens. Gaul is a classic one, whomever is doing worse of the Aedui and Arverni I tend to give Galatia, and the other Singidunum so they've got a buffer against sudden wipeout.

[Blxz]

How do I upload the save? Got a copy on my desktop waiting for you right now but dunno how to put it on the forum.

Also, its RTW.exe I forgot what computer I was using for a second...

[athanaric]

You shoulda booted the Carthies out of the Baleares, Corsica and Sardinia a long time ago.

[Blxz]

You shoulda booted the Carthies out of the Baleares, Corsica and Sardinia a long time ago.

No desire for a punic war. We had a minor scuffle over Lilybeo because I wanted my reforms and they objected to me taking messana. Been damn good trading partners ever since.

[antisocialmunky]

Batrix looks like a bear.
https://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af98/Blxz/greydeathmini.jpg

[-Praetor-]

That looks like a helluva game...

The answer is: Go piracy! Build a good-sized fleet (one that can take up to 5 fights without depleting, like 3 triremes or better), load it up with 6 spies, 3 diplomats and an army consisting of:

-1 FM, but a special one: The most selfish and sanguinary general you may have, with drillmaster ancilliary and looting bonus traits if possible. If you want to be creative, roleplay it by imagining that he´s a lone wolf, a rogue general that created a pirate fleet with his legion after being kicked off by the Senate due to misbehaviour in Illiricum, or a Corsair sent by the Senate to bleed AS dry.
-4 Fast and hard-hitting light troops like Illyrioi Thureophoroi or Botroas.
-4 Heavy infantry, fit for holding the line like 2 principes + 2 triarii.
-One equites romani.
-6.000 Cash to hire mercenaries, for instance, quality ranged troops like toxotai kretikoi.

Load them up on your fleet, and cruise along the Anatolian and Levant coast. Once you get there, send one diplomat to hayasdan, one to the ptolemaioi and another to makedonia.

Once you spot an ill-defended Seleucid town, hopefully with wooden walls, unload your spies, infiltrate the town until there´s more that 90% probabilites that they will open the gates, and hit it hard with your fast moving troops. Put Emphasis on mobility and speed! Never wage attrition battles, and if the battle doesn´t look too good, retreat to the ships! If possible do ambushes, and kill FMs.
Exterminate the populace, destroy all MICs and other buildings like temples and markets (I don´t destroy unique buildings, but if you want, go ahead) anything but the REGIONAL-AUXILIARY BARRACKS.

After you´ve done the dirty work and taken all the cash you can get, go to the ship and depart. Once you are back in the ship (incluiding your spies), open talks with the ptolemaioi/hayasdan/makedonia, give them the town plus 3000 as a gift, and watch the town change colour and a healthy garrison of regionals spring from it, to wreak trouble for the AS. Rinse and repeat. With no time, your general will acquire very special traits, your troops will be experienced, and you would have created trouble inside AS heartland.

Never attack a town if there´s the probability of heavy casualties. Remember, you are on a piracy mission, and your priority is to save your troops for the next juicy target.

I did that with the Koinon Hellenon, and raided the Illyrian coast to weaken the Epirotai that have taken a very strong position in my game. The result is that once the cruise was over, I was swimming in mnai, Doros Athalidos Attikos was in Athens with awesome traits and a force of veteran thureophoroi, ekdromoi and peltastai, and an exotic force of 2 Illyrioi Thureophoroi with him, and Epeiros was struggling to recover Illyria from the Arvernii.

Have fun!

[Geticus]

With effective use of AP charger cavalry and AP heavy infantry I don't see how Grey Death could beat you. Tire them out, heavy infantry in guard mode, kill bodyguards, roll back the flank and route down the line. Phalanxes exhaust easily in hilly terrain and route quickly under pressure from multiple directions when exhausted. Samnite heavy infantry, with their AP attack and decent stamina, + equites extraordinarii + consular bodyguards FTW.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Batrix looks like a bear.
https://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af98/Blxz/greydeathmini.jpg

Grey Death, with horse archers??? That is just a nightmare! Worse than fighting Alexander the Great....

[Cambyses]

They might run out of steam against the carthies, thats a lot of revolt chance so far from their capital in egypt and again in Greece if they push that far. I suspect massive use of spies will keep them in check if you focus on getting all their fringe settlements to rebel.

But more importantly you need to conquer spain in order to cover off that flank and get the resources needed to combat them head on.

[Fluvius Camillus]

Change faction to Saba or Ptolemaioi and PLAY IT!~D

Qarthies and Seles at war? What is the diplomatic position of the Grey Death?

Are the KH still on Rhodes?

~Fluvius

[Andy1984]

Step 1: Upload it. I'd love to fight a strong AS. In my games, the Ptolemean take over all of Asia all the time.
Step 2: Either opt for the piracy-approach and/or strenghten yourself by taking out several other factions (Lusotanni, Epeirotes and perhaps even Carthage). I you prepare you're Punic war carefully, the hit in trade-income might be acceptable. No-one forces you to fight the AS right now, so you might as well prepare yourself for the upcoming clash. Also, use the pressure the AS will exert on Macedonia to conquer part of Macedonia yourself. And as others have noticed: with a little bit of luck, bactria or eleutheroi turn the tide for you.
Step 3: Enjoy step 2 and keep us updated please 8)

[Fluvius Camillus]

Step 1: Upload it. I'd love to fight a strong AS. In my games, the Ptolemean take over all of Asia all the time.
Step 2: Either opt for the piracy-approach and/or strenghten yourself by taking out several other factions (Lusotanni, Epeirotes and perhaps even Carthage). I you prepare you're Punic war carefully, the hit in trade-income might be acceptable. No-one forces you to fight the AS right now, so you might as well prepare yourself for the upcoming clash. Also, use the pressure the AS will exert on Macedonia to conquer part of Macedonia yourself. And as others have noticed: with a little bit of luck, bactria or eleutheroi turn the tide for you.
Step 3: Enjoy step 2 and keep us updated please 8)

Baktria will get gobbled up mercilessly.

If you prepare for a frontal assault, you should probably send some elite full stacks that conquer it up towards Ektabana-Susa-Charax. That way, they will be barred from their elites. That means no more Argyraspides, Thorikitai Agematou Basilikou, Hypaspistai, Hetairoi etc...

Both Pedites and Equites Extraordinarii are your friends!

~Fluvius

[Blxz]

Change faction to Saba or Ptolemaioi and PLAY IT!~D

Qarthies and Seles at war? What is the diplomatic position of the Grey Death?

Are the KH still on Rhodes?

~Fluvius

AS is in a good diplo position. Peace with all except for Saba, baktria and macedon. Allied with Sauro's and hayasdan.
Carthage has been stable there for a long time. They have stacks everywhere but have not expanded in about 15 years. A final ptolemy town is holding out despite everything. Once that falls I hope Carthage will attack the AS for me. I might ally with them to help them.

KH have rhodes and Kydonia and are doing nothing.

As for finances, I am fine with that. Over a million mnai in the bank with 50,000 per turn profit after recruitment and construction. Just blew 600,000 on bribes a few turns ago to try and stop the luso's. Also the aedui are a general pain in the arse, but almost got them beaten.

What gets me is that I am only playing on M/M. This is just insane. I must have a self-mod of some sort installed somewhere because its totally unreasonable.

Also, how do I upload the save. I am more than happy to let people try and play it.

EDIT: I have found the problem. I made a slight mod giving law bonuses in the core building to the steppe factions to make them stronger and to represent their more 'horde' style mentality as well as to not punish them for the huge distances between their towns. Seems by mistake I gave the arche seleukeia the same bonus (as well as carthage). I have edited it so that now all AI factions get the law bonus and I gave myself a 30% happiness boost (coz law is too powerful) so that I can compete.

Will see how this goes from now on.

[Fluvius Camillus]

AS is in a good diplo position. Peace with all except for Saba, baktria and macedon. Allied with Sauro's and hayasdan.
Carthage has been stable there for a long time. They have stacks everywhere but have not expanded in about 15 years. A final ptolemy town is holding out despite everything. Once that falls I hope Carthage will attack the AS for me. I might ally with them to help them.

KH have rhodes and Kydonia and are doing nothing.

As for finances, I am fine with that. Over a million mnai in the bank with 50,000 per turn profit after recruitment and construction. Just blew 600,000 on bribes a few turns ago to try and stop the luso's. Also the aedui are a general pain in the arse, but almost got them beaten.

What gets me is that I am only playing on M/M. This is just insane. I must have a self-mod of some sort installed somewhere because its totally unreasonable.

Also, how do I upload the save. I am more than happy to let people try and play it.

EDIT: I have found the problem. I made a slight mod giving law bonuses in the core building to the steppe factions to make them stronger and to represent their more 'horde' style mentality as well as to not punish them for the huge distances between their towns. Seems by mistake I gave the arche seleukeia the same bonus (as well as carthage). I have edited it so that now all AI factions get the law bonus and I gave myself a 30% happiness boost (coz law is too powerful) so that I can compete.

Will see how this goes from now on.

From modding comes sobbing...~D

Are the Hayasdan and Sauro's not in their usual endless war?

Also you can really defeat the AS, just send around 3 or 4 uber stacks in their heartlands, no matter how many stacks, as long as you don't autoresolve you can beat them that way.

And if not you have a big problem...

You can upload the save by searching in your EB folder for the saves map, there you can get the approapriate .sav file.

~Fluvius

[Andy1984]

Which gives me an idea: If I add +30 or even +50% law to a Roman building, the Romans should be able to build the empire they deserve when I'm playing the Arche. And vice versa of course.

[Blxz]

Which gives me an idea: If I add +30 or even +50% law to a Roman building, the Romans should be able to build the empire they deserve when I'm playing the Arche. And vice versa of course.

Well I have done some testing with a few new games and it seems that the AS benefits the most from law bonuses becasue their empire is very wide and without any corruption AT ALL they have a sickenly high income. On top of that they don't need to garrison their towns and so can move their entire starting army into battles so they gain a head start. And then the fact that every other nation is comparatively weaker because they don't gain the same benefit from the bonus means that a steamroll is likely to happen.

My only choice is to remove the bonus but that is most likely going to cause a total collapse of the AS empire due to bad garrisoning and inability to recruit new units until their finacials stabilise.

@Fluvius: I know where the save is, I have it ready to upload. BUT the file is ~3MB and this forum won't let me upload it through the attchment manager thingy. What else can I do?

[Fluvius Camillus]

Well I have done some testing with a few new games and it seems that the AS benefits the most from law bonuses becasue their empire is very wide and without any corruption AT ALL they have a sickenly high income. On top of that they don't need to garrison their towns and so can move their entire starting army into battles so they gain a head start. And then the fact that every other nation is comparatively weaker because they don't gain the same benefit from the bonus means that a steamroll is likely to happen.

My only choice is to remove the bonus but that is most likely going to cause a total collapse of the AS empire due to bad garrisoning and inability to recruit new units until their finacials stabilise.

@Fluvius: I know where the save is, I have it ready to upload. BUT the file is ~3MB and this forum won't let me upload it through the attchment manager thingy. What else can I do?

And there we have a good old Seleucid civil war!

I present you mediafire! Free and easy, just make an account and I don't think I have to explain anything further.

They also have no long waiting times IIRC. Probably someone will come up with one which is better but mediafire works just fine for me.

~Fluvius

[Blxz]

Thats evil Fluvius. I am sort of relishing the opportunity to have a real challenge for once. Fighting an AI empire that will never sleep and never rest or get tired of endless rounds of attacking. And people complain that the game is too easy without house rules...

Will upload the save when I get back to my other computer. Maybe a day or two.

[Andy1984]

Well I have done some testing with a few new games and it seems that the AS benefits the most from law bonuses becasue their empire is very wide and without any corruption AT ALL they have a sickenly high income. On top of that they don't need to garrison their towns and so can move their entire starting army into battles so they gain a head start. And then the fact that every other nation is comparatively weaker because they don't gain the same benefit from the bonus means that a steamroll is likely to happen.

My only choice is to remove the bonus but that is most likely going to cause a total collapse of the AS empire due to bad garrisoning and inability to recruit new units until their finacials stabilise.

I guess you'll have to fight them. I'd be happy in a certain way after endless Ptolemaean empires, finally a Grey One. :yes:

Yours seems a reasonable explanation to me. Currently I'm on an AS-campaign. But when this one is finished (or when I get bored with it) I'm going Romani again. An AS law-boost of 30% is definitly what I'm looking for.

[Blxz]

I guess you'll have to fight them. I'd be happy in a certain way after endless Ptolemaean empires, finally a Grey One. :yes:

Yours seems a reasonable explanation to me. Currently I'm on an AS-campaign. But when this one is finished (or when I get bored with it) I'm going Romani again. An AS law-boost of 30% is definitly what I'm looking for.

Yes, except I didn't give them 30%.
It seems I have given them a 250% law bonus on every level of the core structure. In hindsight that appears to have been overkill.
If they take a town it stays taken, even if fully ungarrisoned.

[A_Dane]

overkill? try gigantic-mega-über overkill xD holy shit, the AS/Ptollies (whoever wins) never breaks as it is s:

[Fluvius Camillus]

Yes, except I didn't give them 30%.
It seems I have given them a 250% law bonus on every level of the core structure. In hindsight that appears to have been overkill.
If they take a town it stays taken, even if fully ungarrisoned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY_oKve-bH0

But really, it surprises me that they didn't conquer even more than this. I mean 250% thats sick! No civil war then, prepare for some hard fighting. Like Andy1984 said, it's good to have a Grey Death for once. Those Kleurochon Agema fullstacks that the Ptolemies send are just a nightmare...

[Andy1984]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY_oKve-bH0

But really, it surprises me that they didn't conquer even more than this. I mean 250% thats sick! No civil war then, prepare for some hard fighting. Like Andy1984 said, it's good to have a Grey Death for once. Those Kleurochon Agema fullstacks that the Ptolemies send are just a nightmare...
In time they will conquer even more than this. Judging from distance-to-capital penalties, I guess they've used about 100 or 150% of the law bonusses they have. (The AS starts of with a happiness of 40% or so in her faraway outposts...) Considering (1) they have a 250% bonus and (2) distance-to-capital is capped at 100%, they will expand even further. It might take a while before the AI finally develops the necessary infrastructure and before it solves the path-finding of lost armies somewhere on the Arabian peninsula, but I don't doubt there'll be more grey expansion. The only way for the Arche not to subdue her AI-neighbours is to have more armies wandering through her core provinces, therebye undercutting her massive income. But even such stupidity could be nothing but partial and temporary.

Anyway: A huge LOL towards the 250% bonus. And a cheer towards this AS. I like it.

[Marcus Darkstar]

I wonder if hteres a command on the console to give said spies the plague. I found it being very good crippling the Germans in my Roman campaign when i found a natural outbreak of plague in Gual (due to overpopulation) and spread it across the German provinces for a few decades.

[Unintended BM]

There was a picture in one of either the EB empire thread or the AI progression thread where the AI ptolemies conquered from India to the Atlantic side of Africa. I guess if the AI gets lucky in a few battles, then they pretty much dominate everything. Especially phalanx heavy factions, it would seem.

[Blxz]

Been in exams so haven't had much of a chance to update this but just finished a session now. A few major developments, some of which i have taken pictures of. But the most recent development is possibly the most important for me at the moment.

https://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af98/Blxz/itbegins.jpg

Yes, carthage has taken its first step into unfortified petra. This will hopefully catch the AS off guard as they are busy in the east wiping out Baktria, took 2 cities in one go. Also the Saba are nearly gone; also the first chink in the armour. They have a rebel city in Marakanda in the north-east. Really bad playing by the AS here because they must only need 5 units or so to garrison in order to control the city. Seems Baktria is doing their job well.

Other developments: Second punic war started during my extermination of Spain, Carthage managed to retake gader from the Lusitani and then declared on me. Took gader and their islands and left it at that, I need them in fighting shape for AS.
The epirotes are throwing dozens of fullstacks against Patavium but its easily held at the river crossing. Gets boring though.
Finally, the Aedui have almost finished the Sweboz, but they keep holding on against all the odds, sadly there are fullstacks seiging each of their cities, this could be the end of my allies.

[Biowulf]

What are all the respective rankings for the 5 strongest? That should be an exciting graph :P

[Lazy O]

My guesss

1. AS
2.Rome
3.Carthies
4.Eiprus
5.IDK

[Fluvius Camillus]

My guesss

1.AS
2.Rome
3.Carthies
4.Epirus
5.Hayasdan

Fixed.

~Fluvius

[Blxz]

Fixed.

~Fluvius

Correct fluvius. The Hai are the 5th most powerful faction. Interestingly though the Getai are in spot 5 when only looking at military power. Could be interesting, currently they are at peace with everyone (and a protectorate of the epirotes).

Will keep up with more news if anything interesting happens.

[Blxz]

https://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af98/Blxz/ByeHai.jpg

Not a lot to say here other than 'Bye Hai'.

This was a simultaneous double attack. They have also taken almost all of Egypt and the Makedones have been wiped out.

On my front I have triggered the marian reforms (by a slight edit to remove the minimum year limit). I consider having a large number of latifundae and the right general and a sufficient number of territories all that should be required. On a sad note I badly bungled a sally and had this very same general killed not 3 turns after he triggered them. Up north Britain is mine and the last Irish town is under seige. This will be the limit of my rushed expansion for the forseeable future. This game was meant to be slow and gentle but I had to speed things up in order to have the marians before the AS attacked me.

Let me know if you guys are still interested in hearing how this goes. If there is no interest I'll stop I'll stop bumping my thread with new pics and just play by myself more. I'll also upload the save one day. Perhaps.

[Fluvius Camillus]

Please continue, I am sure I am not the only one who likes this mini-AAR a lot!~D

Man that Grey death is sick, Saba got massacred I see, soon it will wipe the Qarthies, Hay and Epeirotes off the face of the earth. Play it!

I see the Suebi are still doing fine. Even if you lose the inevetable war, keep fighting on, even if you get kicked back to Ireland, keep on fighting!

Would be funny to see an AAR where the AI conquers the world!~D Or where you epically destroy the Grey Goliath/Alexandros' united empire!

EDIT: If the AI wipes out the Hai and takes Kyrene, they fulfill the AS victory conditions! OMG!

~Fluvius

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Carthage was destined to lose that battle over Egypt. All they can recruit there are Hellenic levies and Machimoi. AS has great recruitment options however.

Keep this up! I love to see powerful Seleukid Empires! Maybe you can snoop around with some spies to check on their army compositions. I'm interested though guessing lots and lots of Argryaspides.

[Blxz]

@Fluvius, Well, never consiered it a mini AAR. It kinda turned out that way a bit.
As for the suebi....its hard to see but that is the Aedui in germany. The Germans have one territory right next to me, the continent part of denmark and the town just north of the Boii rebels. They are also losing badly, all their fullstacks are now minimal garrisons. Pure luck has kept them alive.

As for victory conditions, bugger. Does the game continue after I lose?

@BBSir Robin: yeah, I'd have hoped that carthage could have won some more land but they sent most of their stacks down to Meroe. Then the AS stomped them and cut them off. I've been playing the last 20 turns with no fog of war so I can watch the AI. Doesn't mean anything since I have ceased expanding for the tiome being. If the uber Ptolemy MIC's weren't around I doubt the AS conquest would have been so fast though.

[Lazy O]

I dont think youve got much time, epirus may be your last hope as a buffer. If i were you id strike egypt and Anatolia right nwo

[Blxz]

I dont think youve got much time, epirus may be your last hope as a buffer. If i were you id strike egypt and Anatolia right nwo

Nope, this whole game was going to be my attempt at nice measured roleplaying. And I didn't even get out of Italy until it was time for my Polybian reforms. But then I was forced to grow and trigger my early modded Marians. I'm going to build up and let them keep expanding for now. I am not worried about losing but the AS is my ally for the time being so I can't really justify declaring war. We will see how things go in a few more decades.

Going to keep playing for now. Will post more screenies if anything else interesting happens.