Automatic LukMap & Script creator

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (Warriorofmight @ Feb. 19 2003,12:09)]after some turns i got the message can't find a portrai or something like this. all collors are correct. but i`ve got a question could i send you our starpos file the luk map and the events file and you could have a look on it and try to find the problem??

Quote[/b] ]after some turns i got the message can't find a portrai or something like this. all collors are correct.

We had this problem as well (Mr Egg I think). It's discussed in this thread and the solution is also in this thread - have a check.


Quote[/b] ]but i`ve got a question could i send you our starpos file the luk map and the events file and you could have a look on it and try to find the problem??

Sorry, but no chance

Having spent 2 months writing a utility that automatically generates all the correct stuff required for new campaigns I have no intention of 'checking' none-LMM generated files.

If you want to redo your map to make it LMM compatable this would problebly take around 2 hours to draw all the features on and do the correct faction/paramters tables.

One more hour to run LMM4v1 on this input and you'll have a working campaign with all the correct files within 3 hours.

That's a lot less time than it would take me to find any bug in someone else's Script file

[PanthaPower]

Quote[/b] (Warriorofmight @ Feb. 19 2003,18:09)]after some turns i got the message can't find a portrai or something like this. all collors are correct. but i`ve got a question could i send you our starpos file the luk map and the events file and you could have a look on it and try to find the problem??
Warrior,

Wellington is right. Just build it again through LMM and you'll solve all your problems. Trust me, you can spend two more months on getting your own campaign to work but you will keep getting weird errors. Once you fix one, you'll get another error, and another error, etc. Sometimes an error even keeps the game running and make you feel like you're almost there. But then you find an error, correct it and find out that it doesn't even run anymore. Verrry frustrating.

Whitey and I invested 2 months of editing, testing, etc for our LOTR map and sometimes we got really close to get it working but in the end it never finished. That's why I chose to stop working on it and shift my effort to the development of LMM.

I know it feels awkward to "throw" away all the work that you did on it but it will save you a lot of time and further frustration. Just give LMM a try and you'll be amazed.

[Warriorofmight]

ok will do it like this oh a really great programm

[Whitey]

Thats it Pantha, I've only just 'got over' the need to throw everything away...It really blew me away for a bit that all that work was superceeded...

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (Whitey @ Feb. 20 2003,13:02)]Thats it Pantha, I've only just 'got over' the need to throw everything away...It really blew me away for a bit that all that work was superceeded...
Hi Whitey,

I think this has been the most difficult 'concept' in terms of people who understand this area and have been struggling for some time doing some extremely difficult work in the 'new campaigns' area.

This is precisely the reason LMM was started - to finally circumvent all/most of the continuous problems that were inherent in merely getting past the basics of creating a new MTW campaign map.

I also hate throwing something away that I've spent months on, but I've had to do it several times (both professionally and hobbywise - always raises a tear to my eye ... sigh&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif.

I do hope you an P.P. (and maybe others) continue with your LoTR mod. I'm sure it will be a classic MTW mod providing you both (perhaps) get some further assistance from other similarly interested Guys. Personally I'd love to see it

Still, have you tried LMM? Are you using it? Any problems?


Next release of LMM
===================

The next release of LMM (LMM4v2) will be in over a week. I'm still struggling with all the necessary documentation, and I won't release the next version until I'm happy with this.

The next version will be non-Beta. It will be a first release, to The Org, that I'm prepared to support and answer questions on. How many people will download and use this release - probably very few Does'nt matter As this is an extremely confusing, complicated and time-consuming area of MTW modding I only really expect people who have a rough idea of the implications to start using LMM in earnest.

So, the next release will incorporate a few more additions/enhancements, major ones being -

- proper documentation
- an option to use the real byterun1 encoding scheme for LukMap generation (as opposed to LMM4v1's simplidtic approach that, whilst being very quick, generates large LukMaps
- a fastpath option (taking half the time to run) for suitable users opsys/configurations
- more translation of LOC/ENG files (names.txt/descriptions.txt)
- additions to the "Group mod making" facilities of LMM (making it easier to use LMM as both a mod maker and as a recipient of such mod's - easier to create/amend the TGA maps whilst circumventing large downloads for mods)
- major enhancements to Install/Backout facilities Principally the ability to incorporate none-LMM files, that are required for new mods, into the Install/Backout structure of LMM - allowing users to add new units, icons, shields, flags, whatever to the LMM map folders in order to allow a COMPLETE mod (not just the LMM generated stuff) to be installed/backed). These enhancements will be 'usable' by both mod-makers and the recipients of such mods.


Basically, as I've said before, LMM is intended to be a utility for both mod-makers and mod recipients and as such will continue in a direction that tries to make things easy for both parties.


Welly

[shand994]

Sorry to distract you from your work, but will this tool be easily used by someone like me who has very little knowledge/skill at proagraming/modding etc, ive done a little modding of some of the files in MTW but not sure if I could handle all this. Just wanted to know how complicated it would be so i know whether its worth me havin a go.
Keep up the good work
Thanks

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (shand994 @ Feb. 20 2003,19:21)]Sorry to distract you from your work, but will this tool be easily used by someone like me who has very little knowledge/skill at proagraming/modding etc, ive done a little modding of some of the files in MTW but not sure if I could handle all this. Just wanted to know how complicated it would be so i know whether its worth me havin a go.
Keep up the good work
Thanks
If your asking "hoe easy is LMM to use", then my answer would be "You tell me"

It really is'nt too difficult but I would think it would be very to understand the basics of what is required for an entirely new campaign and especally understand most of the keywords/paramters in a Script file (eg: early.txt).

LMM works with such things as Ports/Origins/Castles/Borders/sea and land regions - so it would useful (although not necessary) to understand the relationships.

Other MTW map concepts such as 'land bridges' and 'same regions' would be useful to understand.

Once you have all your maps built you would have to do more work on some parts of the LMM generated Script in relation to the starting positions and relative strengths of your defined factions. For example -

- adding building
- adding units
- adding ships
- princesses/emissaries/spys/assassins
... and so on

Basically a good understanding of the Script file is key to a good understanding of LMM.

Welly

[Whitey]

well, I am just starting to work with LMM, but have not done anything other than poke around atm...I'll get back to you when I know more...

[MR EGG]

Hello guys just got back to civillisation looks like I've missed a fair bit http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Wellington]

Quick update, as I've had a couple of E-mail queries regarding this.

LMM is NOT dead and buried

I'm still busy with the new text/names/regions translation stuff, and the documentation.

Also, testing is taking a bit longer that usual as I want the next version (none-BETA) to be as bugfree as possible.

Welly

[Hendon]

Please post a link where i can download the lukmap creator
cause i cant find it


/ME http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (Hendon @ Mar. 03 2003,10:12)]Please post a link where i can download the lukmap creator
cause i cant find it


/ME http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Hendon,

Don't ask me I have absolutely NO IDEA

I'm only writing this utility ... I have absolutely no control over accessability from "The Org".

As I have been unable to download ANYTHING since "The Org" moved to 3ddownloads I can only suggest you address your queries to Barocca/TosaInu.

Barocca has been following this thread so maybe he's the best bet re-downloads.

Bear in mind King David's Patrician mod is no longer hosted from "The Org" due to download problems. Looks like LMM may have to go the same way considering the new piss-poor service now being offered (or rather not offered).

Welly

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (Wellington @ Feb. 12 2003,17:58)]Barocca,

One thing I forgot with LMM4. Could you please ask RSW to send me a brief E-mail authorising me to include BifReader in the LMM download.

Whilst I have your permission I do not have the permission of the author of BifReader. You'll appreciate the importance of this.

Thanks,
Welly
Barocca,

Further to the above request I'll be releasing the none-BETA version of LMM shortly. Consequently I'd like to ensure all third-party software included within an LMM download has the permission of the authors of such software.

Obviously this has implications considering the new 3ddownloads area which is NOT an offering totally controlled by "The Org".

Considering the original versions of LMM did NOT rely on included versions of BifReader, and also considering the code was changed at your request re-Bifreader 2.2a, could we ensure that the none-BETA version of LMM has the authority of the copyright owner of BifReader to include "Bifreader 2.2a" in future LMM downloads.

Failing this necessary permission, the code will have to revert back to the state before your advise. Obviously, this will take time to revert several routines to be no longer dependent on including RSW's BifReader in the LMM download.

Barocca ... I need to know quickly.

Permission (via E-mail authorisation) or no permisssion?

Let me know ASAP as it effects the next none-BETA release of LMM.

Welly

[Hendon]

Everybody,

If someone you have the LMM please post it to me at sanoj_jonas@hotmail.com if its not to big becase i cant find the place where you download it.


/ME http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Hendon]

Welly,

When i tried to start the LMM beta a window opned and it said "Error Detecded by BugAssert

[Sub Initiale], This script requires: wshLtWtNonModalDialog.ucNMD
kindly Install and REGISTER this ActX componet..."

What does that mean

/ME http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (Hendon @ Mar. 05 2003,07:26)]Welly,

When i tried to start the LMM beta a window opned and it said "Error Detecded by BugAssert

[Sub Initiale], This script requires: wshLtWtNonModalDialog.ucNMD
kindly Install and REGISTER this ActX componet..."

What does that mean

/ME http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Hendon,

The error message says you hav'nt installed the OCX that LMM requires.

You need to download a file (From The Org or 3ddownloads) called "Test_LukMapMaker_GUI_OCX.zip" which is the GUI interface for LMM.

You can download it here -

http://www.3ddownloads.com/strateg....OCX.zip (http://www.3ddownloads.com/strategy-gaming/totalwar/Z_Beta_Files/MTWbeta/TEST_LukMapMaker_GUI_OCX.zip)

Once you've downloaded this file (only 21K) unzip it and move/copy the OCX into your "Windows/System32" directory and then register it (via regsvr32) on your system.

Have a read of the "Installation Instructions.txt" provided with LMM. For this OCX it says -



GUI OCX
-------

1) Move the OCX "wshLtWtNonModalDalog.ocx" from the LMM root folder into
your "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32" folder

2) Register this OCX via the Start/Run command. Enter the following -
"Regsvr32 wshltwtnonmodaldialog.ocx"
It should now be registered on your PC.





Make sure you also download, install and register the csImageFile trial version (details also in the "Installation Instructions.txt" )

Welly

[Lord Of Storms]

I could not find the LMM on the download page does anyone know whereI can get it Thanks.Or send it to me at ronin27k@aol.comthank you .

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (The Sword Of Storms @ Mar. 05 2003,08:57)]I could not find the LMM on the download page does anyone know whereI can get it Thanks.Or send it to me at ronin27k@aol.comthank you .
Go here -

http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWupload/

Download 3 files -

TEST_LMM4v1_BETA_VERSION.zip
TEST_GMM_EXAMPLE_HOLYLAND.zip
TEST_LukMapMaker_GUI_OCX.zip


You can also download other "TEST_*_EXAMPLE_*.zip" files that were produced for earlier versions of LMM.

Unfortunately, this is still very messy (poor documentation, many changes etc) but IS usable. The next none-BETA release will be as complete and pain-free as I can make it. I'll also post a new thread in "The Dungeon" when the next version is released.

Any questions/probs with usage - reply to this thread.

Welly.

[Lord Of Storms]

I can not seem to register that ocx file I followed the instructions and it wont register.

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (The Sword Of Storms @ Mar. 06 2003,08:51)]I can not seem to register that ocx file I followed the instructions and it wont register.
What messsage do you get?

Are you sure you've moved the ocx into the windows/system32 directory? Is it there? What op/sys are you running? Are you sure the spelt the name correctly using regsvr32?

[Lord Of Storms]

Double checked everything the file move was good it was in syatem 32 no prob I tried re-entering the run command and it worked it was probably a typo thanks Welly cant wait to try it out...http://www.gifs.net/animate/dogruns.gif

[Sundance]

Can anyone tell me, what the error-message:

"Warning: the 'Castle/Border' feature color (255,0,255), at X/Y : 0,1 is same color as on the original map"

is about. I know the words but I don't understand it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif because I'm pretty shure I made everything right with the 'Ref_Features'-file.

The error occurs when running "Start Test Map" in LMM4v1 and that means with every pixel I have outlined as a border (or water on land).
Has it to do with a wrong palette?

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (Sundance @ Mar. 21 2003,11:48)]Can anyone tell me, what the error-message:

"Warning: the 'Castle/Border' feature color (255,0,255), at X/Y : 0,1 is same color as on the original map"

is about. I know the words but I don't understand it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif because I'm pretty shure I made everything right with the 'Ref_Features'-file.

The error occurs when running "Start Test Map" in LMM4v1 and that means with every pixel I have outlined as a border (or water on land).
Has it to do with a wrong palette?
Sundance,

This warning (as opposed to an error) is generated because LMM has found a pixel colour on your map (that is recognises as an "LMM" colour) but is'nt sure whether or not this pixel colour was drawn onto the map intentionally - as an LMM feature.

I know the documentation is pretty crappy at present and I'm working on this now

However, let me just clarify a couple of things.

When you provide a new map for LMM to process you should (ideally) provide 3 maps. Let's presume your map is called "NewMap.bmp" and the small size is 800x500. The best way is to provide 3 maps named -

1) "NewMap.bmp" - 800x500
2) "NewMap_Lores.bmp" - 800x500
3) "NewMap_Hires.bmp" - 1600x1000

LMM expects maps 2) and 3) to be EXACTLY the maps you wish to see in MTW - no LMM type features drawn onto them. LMM does'nt check these maps - it just uses them to generate the Maptex/Maptex2 stuff. LMM DOES expect map 1) to be exactly the same as map 2) but with the LMM features drawn onto it. This is the map that LMM processes.

LMM tries to do as much as it can with whatever is provided as input - hence, users can continually add more and more LMM input files as they progress.

If the user does'nt provide a map 3) LMM creates one by resizing (doubling the size) of map 2).

If the use does'nt provide maps 2) and 3) then .... hmmmm ... LMM creates 2) and 3) from 1) - which can be a bit confusing for 2 reasons -

a) the maps you will see in MTW will have all your LMM features displayed on them (ie; the colours)
b) LMM will not know some things for certain.


From this a) is obvious, but a little explanation of b) is required, so ...


LMM is never interested in the colours on the original map. Map 1) is only a means for the user to draw borders and features whilst on a copy of the actual map - you can just as well provide your features on all white bmp

However, one potential problem is that the user may use a colour (for borders/castles/origins/same regions/land bridges) that, just by coincidence, is already on the original map(s) - therefore LMM has to has a means to ascertain whether the user drew such a colour as a feature OR if it's just a concidence that should be ignored.

LMM does this by cross-referencing 2 maps -

x) map 1) that it DOES expect LMM features (colours) to have been drawn onto
y) map 2) that it DOES'NT expect LMM features (colours) to have been drawn onto (it expects this map to be the 'original&#39http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

By checking the colours on these two maps, at the same pixel positions, LMM tries to ascertain whether the features on 1) are intentional or not. If it finds the same colour (an LMM feature colour) on BOTH 1) and 2) at the same pixel positions - it does'nt know whether or not this is an intentional drawn-on feature.

In this situation it still assumes it to be a feature but issues the warning message you received just to let you know.


I presume you have this error because you only provided map 1) then ran LMM, which would automatically create maps 2) and 3), and then rean LMM a second time. This would ensure both maps 1) and 2) have your LMM features on them and would cause such a warming for every pixel.

Just ensure any features are ONLY on map 1) - this solves this "LMM confusion" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Let me know if this solves the problem. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Welly

(BTW hopefully the documentation will explain such issues better when I get the final version released)

[Sundance]

Thank you, Wellington

I finally managed to get it together.

The problem was that Maps 2) and 3) had drawn the lmm-features on it.

But I discovered that LMM builds these two maps even if I provided them already when doing 'Build Map Folder'. I checked spelling. Is that wanted? Because I had to overwrite the files with my originals.

But then everything worked fine.

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (Sundance @ Mar. 24 2003,05:57)]Thank you, Wellington

I finally managed to get it together.

The problem was that Maps 2) and 3) had drawn the lmm-features on it.

But I discovered that LMM builds these two maps even if I provided them already when doing 'Build Map Folder'. I checked spelling. Is that wanted? Because I had to overwrite the files with my originals.

But then everything worked fine.
Not sure what your question exactly is, but let clarify.

There are 2 major folders than LMM deals with -

1) MapFolders
2) GroupMapFolders

The commands/buttons "Test Map", "Map/Script" and "Script" all work on the contents of a subfolder within 1).

The command/button "Build Group Map" works on the contents of a subfolder within 2).

If you are creating your own campaign you will NOT have to worry about GroupMapFolders and can do everything in MapFolders (in LMM4v1 that is).

When you have finished your mod you can then release it to other people by packing up all your LMM files, except the maps, and writing a quick "GMParameters.txt". This stuff can then be used by recipients of your mod. They would create a GroupMapFolder, put all your stuff in (and the map) and use "Build Group Map". This then creates a MapFolder sunfolder for them which should be EXACTLY the same as you have on your PC. They would then use "Map/Script" to build everything.

Basically, MapFolders is where all the work happens. GroupMapFolders is where you can receive stuff (other peoples mods) and use "Build Group Map" to create a MapFolders subfolder. Once this has been done - you can effectively forget the GroupMapFolders stuff (delete it if you want&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif.

Note that GroupMapFolders has been extended to add more functionality in terms maps (adding text/images, recolouring ect) and the next released version will incorporate these additions.

Welly

[Lord Of Storms]

Hi Welly, waiting patiently for more documentation regarding the use of LMM4V2 I have been stuck on the Drenai Map trying to change the border areas to include more provinces then the original map breakdown . following what I have I was able to generate a new map ref. but that is where I got stuck , any new info would be greatly appreciated Thanks, LOS

[Wellington]

SoS, (or LoS or whatever you've changed your moniker to now),

At present you have LMM4v2 installed. You also have the documentation from LMM4v1 - that you had installed before I provided you with version 2.

Please read this documentation.

This thread consists of 12 pages relating to different versions of LMM as and when such versions were released.

NO-ONE has [b] EVER [/b} had problems with the basics. Re-read the posts in this thread Everyone who has been contributory to this project fully understandings the principles of writing borders on maps - it really IS the base premise of such a utility as LMM.

I fully understand that such "campaign map" considerations requires a basic understanding of what considerations persist in these areas, but (regrettably) if the basics of LMM are not understood then I can only offer advice in respect of awaiting the NONE-BETA version of this utility -which will make many aspects clear to Org patrons who may wish to progress in these areas (New Campaign maps) but have little understanding of the requirements of such MTW modding areas.

Basically, the problems you appear to now have are "problems" that were both understood, obviated and circumvented via LMM many months ago. I really fail to understand precisely what your current problem is.

[Lord Of Storms]

I have no trouble understanding the "Basics" of LMM, I understand fully from the Documentation I was sent LMM4V1 and the version I was working with LMM4V2 have some differences, I understood enough to go through some of the Mini Campaigns-The Holyland,etc. and also the Drenai example. I have no problem re-doing the lines for the borders. It is when I change the lines I think the map would also need new Faction Parameters for me to change the map properly. And I am sorry but that was not explained in the Documentation I have. It was my understanding you were working on some docs for us on that subject. But nothing ever came of it. I read these threads over and over and I noticed other people having some troubles. and according to your own post that you would be there to answer and help. and that also The next version would indeed have better documentation if you can not help or if I dont understand I guess I will wait for the next release of LMM and follow the documentation and go from there . I did not intend to trouble you. I will figure it out...

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (Lord Of Storms @ April 10 2003,13:26)] if you can not help or if I dont understand I guess I will wait for the next release of LMM
Good idea.

[MR EGG]

Hello wellington just got back from a land where steam powered calculators are still much in use, so I have'nt tested LMM4V1 until now.It ran fine until I got to the thickening pink borders bit and then got an error message:could not locate automation class named adodb.stream,which if I'm right in saying is to do with the lbm and tga producing sub scripts, but I don't want to mess around with these without knowing what I'm doing.I hope this is clear enough. cheers M.E http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[MR EGG]

DON'T WORRY I've done it don't ask me how cause I don't know but I must have cut the right wire http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif cheers ME.

[Tennerelking]

do you have a VI version of LMM?

[The Blackfish]

is there any updates of that tool.?? if any, because, lot of links are dead... or i miss something (that is truly possible.!!)