When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

[phonicsmonkey]

http://oi52.tinypic.com/692gdz.jpg

Two worlds separated by the expanse of the Internet. Two hotseat communities separated by custom. Two sets of veteran warriors battling for the right to be known as the most feared and greatest hotseat warlord on the internet.

Ladies and Gentlemen I present to you "When Worlds Collide", an 8 player hotseat game pitching 4 of the best warriors from totalwar.org against 4 of the best warriors from twcenter.net.

So sit back and watch as the greatest warriors battle for the supremacy of their respective communities: pride is at stake, reputations are on the line and the time for talking is over.....let battle commence!

Anybody interested in seeing our hotseat kinsmen's community at the TWC please follow this link:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1535

The parallel "When Worlds Collide" Thread within TWC is here:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=406040

The Teams are as follows

The Org

phonicsmonkey (Captain)
Tristan de Castelreng
Nightbringer
Thanatos Eclipse

TWC

Mordrorru (Captain)
Vassilef
Incontinenta Buttox
Oddsworm


The game will operate with co-admins, one from each site to ensure impartiality. They are as follows:

The Org

Zim

TWC

Visorslash


HUMAN FACTIONS
Kingdom of England: Mordrorru
Kingdom of France: Tristan de Castelreng
The Holy Roman Empire: phonicsmonkey
The Byzantine Empire : Vassilef
Moorish Caliphate: Thanatos Eclipse
Hungary: Incontinenta Buttox
Teutonic Order: Nightbringer
Denmark: Oddsworm

AI FACTIONS

Republic of Novgorod
Seljuk Sultanate
Kingdom of Denmark
The Crusader States
Cuman Khanate
Kingdom of Hungary
Kingdom of Sicily
Kievan Rus
Kingdom of Norway
Khwarezmian Empire
Kingdom of Leon
Republic of Venice
Republic of Genoa
Kingdom of Aragon
Kingdom of Scotland
Kingdom of Portugal
DEFEATED FACTIONS
None Victory Conditions

The game will continue until either all the opposing team's factions are destroyed or the players have publicly surrendered, or if the players have abandoned their factions and are not present to continue the game and no replacements can be found. The remaining team will be declared the victor.

RULES:

Jihad and Crusades:

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No in-game crusades or jihads may be joined by any human player. If a crusade is called by the Pope it shall be ignored.

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Battles:

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All Player vs Player battles must be auto-resolved.
Battles against AI can be played.
Note: Screenshots are to be posted as evidence of auto-resolve(only for player vs player battles).

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Agents:

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You must have 2 spies or more to open another human player's gates.
No exploiting merchants in the form of merchant stack - (Putting several merchants in an army or fort securing a resource).
No killing generals|family members with assassins(only other agents can be assassinated).

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Buildings:

**************************************************************************************************** *

You can only destroy military and religious buildings 3 turns after the city's capture
You shall not be allowed to destroy buildings in a settlement if it is under siege.
Ports cant be destroyed.

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Other:

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No attacking ships inside ports

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No circling armies in order to destroy them entirely (it mean no surrounding enemy army with several single units,because if enemy army is defeated there will be no survivors,and that is bug)

Spawned troops when someone gives you a settlement that is near a war zone have to be disbanded IMMEDIATELY the same turn. If settlement is not in a war zone you are allowed to keep one of them to maintain public order in the settlement.

**************************************************************************************************** *

Armies that are defeated in battle by a player that comes after them in the turn list may not move the following turn. This is to make it fair for people who are defeated by players that come before them in the turn list, and thus lose all their movement points

Armies that are defeated in battle may not be attacked on the following turn, as they are banned from moving, either by the game mechanics or by the rule above. They must be allowed to move first, or must be reinforced. If the defeated army retreats to a settlement or fort, this rule does not apply.
**************************************************************************************************** *

Any team-mate can sub for a player who cannot play his turn within the allotted 24 hours and will be granted an additional 24 hours to do it. If there are no available team-mates then the 'friendly' admin will sub instead. If there are no subs or friendly admins available within the 48 hours then the turn will be skipped. An extension may be granted by the opposing team's admin on request.
**************************************************************************************************** *
Any actions which are judged to be an exploit by the majority decision of the two admins and the team captains will be banned from play from that point on. If an unfair advantage is adjudged to have been gained then the admins will take the necessary action to restore balance as they see fit. The admins and team captains will be obliged to consider any action which is referred to them by any player on either team at any point in the game.

Starting positions in territory = 33 territories each

Turn-by-turn commentary:

Turn One update:

- England sent a force across the channel to take French-held Bruges
- Denmark took Hamburg from HRE
- Hungary took Vienna from HRE

First blood TWC! (but there was no opportunity to defend any of these three settlements which were attacked with superior force and could not be reinforced...)

Org: 30 TWC: 36
https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa181/phonicsmonkeytw/0023-5.jpg
https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa181/phonicsmonkeytw/0026-3.jpg

Turn 2:

Not much happened

Turn 3:

The TWC team desperately grabs land from the AI in preparation for the coming Org onslaught.

Magdeburg is lost by the HRE to the Danes, abandoned in a strategic withdrawal.

1106 1107

Turn 4:

- Prinz Henry of the HRE is defeated in battle by King Richard of England (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9087699#post9087699)

- Angers is liberated by the French, who also win some other minor skirmishes against the English (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9091746#post9091746)

- The Byzantines win a minor battle at sea against the Moors (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9114048#post9114048)
11311132

Turn 5:

- The ERE defeat the Moors at sea. (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9114048#post9114048)

- The Moors strike back, sinking an ERE troop carrier. (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9117889#post9117889)

- The English resort to bribery against the HRE. (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9118826#post9118826)

- France recaptures Caen and Angers. (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9121729#post9121729)

- The Teutonic Order invades Denmark. (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9134180#post9134180)

Status charts:
https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa181/phonicsmonkeytw/0034-1.jpg
https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa181/phonicsmonkeytw/0035-1.jpg
https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa181/phonicsmonkeytw/0036.jpg

Turn 6:

- England's invasion of France is repelled (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9169516#post9169516)
- The Danes drive back Hochmeister Gunther of the Teutonic Order (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9196029#post9196029)
- Elsewhere, the TO break a Danish siege (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9196461#post9196461)
- Otto of the Reich is defeated by King Bela of Hungary in a battle west of Vienna. (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9205290#post9205290)
- ERE-held Naples falls to the Moors. (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9222856#post9222856)

Rankings:

https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa181/phonicsmonkeytw/0034-1.jpg
https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa181/phonicsmonkeytw/0035-1.jpg
https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa181/phonicsmonkeytw/0036.jpg

[phonicsmonkey]

ERE (http://www.mediafire.com/?ba219rrlknasssz) is up

[Swarbs]

Let's get it on!

http://www.filefront.com/17588658/Moors_1.sav

[Quirl]

Egypt!
http://www.mediafire.com/?p41da5t0k9n5i98

[Incontinenta Buttox]

Poland turn is up.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=8533853#post8533853

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Lithuania

http://www.mediafire.com/file/2m9q303m63cb1ca/Lithuania_1.sav

[grouchy13]

England Up here,

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=8537359#post8537359

[Askthepizzaguy]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/glip6m

France is up.

[Mordrorru]

HRE is up here. (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=8538994#post8538994)

[phonicsmonkey]

ERE (http://www.mediafire.com/?fh10wl617medjba)

[Swarbs]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=8541628#post8541628

[Incontinenta Buttox]

Poland is up...

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=8544782#post8544782

[Thanatos Eclipse]

posted turn on .net

[Swarbs]

Subbed StOuFf cos he can't play in time and there's only about three moves for Lithuania to make!

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=8548976#post8548976

[Askthepizzaguy]

I have the save, and I'm conferring with my allies regarding what to do.

[Askthepizzaguy]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/lr2uxa

(unleash long stream of profanities)

I don't know what these mods are doing to my computer, but it's really ticking me off. Screenshots are ending up in ungodly places and when I CAN find them, I can't upload them to photobucket because photobucket doesnt even recognize them as IMAGES.

WHAT THE (Long profanity)???

:wall:



France is up. :brood:

[Swarbs]

That's weird. No matter what mods you use the screenies should all end up in C:\Program Files\SEGA\Medieval II Total War\tgas

If you need to convert them to jpgs, you can use the program here:

http://www.filefront.com/17608193/ConvertShots.rar

Stick it in the same directory as the .tga files and it will convert them all to jpgs. It inverts them all when converting them for some reason, but you can easily flip them back over and crop them in Windows.

[phonicsmonkey]

Or you can use Irfanview which is freeware image manipulation software

[Mordrorru]

HRE up here. (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=8555983#post8555983)

[phonicsmonkey]

I'll play in about ten hours when I'm home from work and the lad is in bed.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Map of the world, turn 3:

https://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb225/askthepizzaguy/Theknownworld.png

[Quirl]

Ha ha! Sums it up. :D

[phonicsmonkey]

ERE (http://www.mediafire.com/?ccu2c2yt9czmcm8)

[Swarbs]

Moors

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=8558444#post8558444

[Incontinenta Buttox]

Poland is up gentlemen!!!!:laugh4:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=8561131#post8561131

[Thanatos Eclipse]

computer is giving me trouble at the moment, so I asked my teammates to sub for me.

[Incontinenta Buttox]

There's no rush.

TWC is down again, and might not be up again for days or even weeks.

[Swarbs]

There's no rush.

TWC is down again, and might not be up again for days or even weeks.

Or minutes. It's working now :tongue:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I spot the save. I'm taking it out.

[Askthepizzaguy]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/myp1tc

Lithuanianland is up.

[phonicsmonkey]

Beware, there be dragons...

[Askthepizzaguy]

Shhh...

[phonicsmonkey]

Update: Polish-held Halych is besieged by the Lithuanians

[Askthepizzaguy]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/s9fp5i

Franceland is up

[Mordrorru]

Holy Roman Empire is up here. (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=8577748#post8577748)

[phonicsmonkey]

ERE (http://www.mediafire.com/?7v7y3iacd279tpk)

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Subbing for Quirl, will get it done tonight

Edit: Fatimid
http://www.mediafire.com/file/95s7wdybhrtp5h1/Fatimid_4.sav

[Incontinenta Buttox]

Poland is up...

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=8596874#post8596874

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Lithuania

http://www.mediafire.com/file/c95to8mg0vy733k/Lithuania_4.sav

[phonicsmonkey]

First blood to the TWC team:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=8604117#post8604117

[Mordrorru]

HRE up here. (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=8611246#post8611246)

[phonicsmonkey]

France captures Caen and launches an invasion of Britain. (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=8611246#post8611246)

[phonicsmonkey]

ERE (http://www.mediafire.com/?tixp605ebv4ve6s)

[Swarbs]

The Roman Empire sinks a German ship. Bow before my power!!!

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=8613786#post8613786

Moors now!

[phonicsmonkey]

The Roman Empire sinks a German ship. Bow before my power!!!

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=8613786#post8613786

Moors now!

Good, it did its job of alerting me to your presence then.

[Incontinenta Buttox]

Polands turn

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=406040

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Lithuania

http://www.mediafire.com/file/kklbi4o4kl5gadj/Lithuania_5.sav

[phonicsmonkey]

England fights back. (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=8640136#post8640136)

[phonicsmonkey]

Visorslash is offering odds (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=8640432#post8640432)

This is a good opportunity to back your org brethren at what I would assess as a very generous price for a two-horse race...

[Mordrorru]

HRE up here. (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=8640783#post8640783)

[phonicsmonkey]

The Reich attacks!

https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa181/phonicsmonkeytw/0014-3.jpg
https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa181/phonicsmonkeytw/0015-4.jpg
https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa181/phonicsmonkeytw/0016-3.jpg
https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa181/phonicsmonkeytw/0017.jpg

Neither army may move next turn.

ERE (http://www.mediafire.com/?5jpo85td4k4cv8m) is up.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm jealous you got to move first, phonics. That was glorious.

Okay, let's send in the second wave.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

so, think that's going to help our odds any ;) Visor wasn't to favorable to us before

[grouchy13]

Great move guys this HS has been crazy so far!

Merry Xmas to all my .org HS Bro's and a Happy new year see you round the forums

[grouchy13]

SS 6.3 Patch released this sunday guys Update and fallout in the WWC HS thread here,

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=406040&page=14

[phonicsmonkey]

We'll be restarting this game shortly in another mod, KGCM...so watch this space for updates

[Incontinenta Buttox]

IB choses.......

Hungary

[phonicsmonkey]

The org team picked The Teutonic Order and await the final pick from TWC

Teams so far:
Org
phonicsmonkey (c) - HRE
Askthepizzaguy - France
Thanatos Eclipse - Moors
Balthor - Teutonic Order

TWC
Mordrorru (c) - England
Vassilef - ERE
Incontinenta Buttox - Hungary
Oddsworm - ?

[phonicsmonkey]

The TWC team made their final pick: Denmark

The game will start shortly and updates will be posted here.

[Nightbringer]

hi all, i've accepted phonics invitation to step in since Balthor seems to be MIA.
I warn you I'm not really an expert at this, and have never played KCGM, but I'll do my best.
FOR THE (wait a sec, I have twice as many posts on the .net, meh, whatever, I don't do hotseat there) .ORG!!!!

I just need the TO save file and im good to go

[Incontinenta Buttox]

HRE up gentlemen!

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=406040

[Myth]

Our team has the better pick. Can we get a battle report or something? With screenshots? *drool*

[phonicsmonkey]

Our team has the better pick. Can we get a battle report or something? With screenshots? *drool*

Absolutely, I'm going to be posting a turn-by-turn report in this thread, with screenshots as they become available (usually a few turns after the action)

[Myth]

I am subscribed to this thread and waiting eagerly.

[phonicsmonkey]

Turn One update:

- England sent a force across the channel to take French-held Bruges
- Denmark took Hamburg from HRE
- Hungary took Vienna from HRE

First blood TWC! (but there was no opportunity to defend any of these three settlements which were attacked with superior force and could not be reinforced...)

[Myth]

England will have a hard time holding anything on the mainland if France concentrates it's efforts on that. They are a long ways off of massing the deadly Longbow line units that can hold a castle practically forever. Forsaking the AI nations north of Nottingham may prove to be a bad move, I'm not particularly versed in Stainless Steel (although I'll install it today), not sure how aggressive the AI is.

The HRE is a beastly power but now that I think about it it can be sandwiched between Hungary and Denmark (as it is evident). Losing Hamburg is not something that is out of the ordinary - Denmark is pretty much forced to take it or stay with it's petty villages in Scandinavia (although SS gives them 3 starting settlements. If this were vanilla M2:TW they could have been wiped out in one blow)

Denmark's early AP attacking units are scary good, and their archers are very good in hand to hand. However they absolutely suck when attacked with massed ranged units and cheap but plentiful spear line units (AP really shines versus Dism. Feudal Knights and the likes). Denmark will most certainly stack Hamburg well, knowing it's its most viable troop production center that will serve as a launchpad further in HRE territories. This will leave their civilian cities up north vulnerable - if one can get there undetected that is. Perhaps a french boat can sail there unexpectedly? They'll see HRE armies going north by land.

The more the game drags on, the weaker Denmark becomes, unit wise. Although SS might have changed that?

Hungary are annoying with their HAs but their infantry is garbage. They cannot storm cities early on versus the HRE, and autocalc will not do their mobile HA armies justice. Stacks of Feudal Knights and Spear line units will autocalc them to death.

What I can say is that the enemy wanted to box the HRE in so that it cannot help France while England slowly weathers them down. The problem for England, however is that early on France is bigger and richer, and that autocalc does not abuse Longbows as the human player does. The Scottish and (are there Irish in SS?) Irish can also make one hell of a melee for Nottingham as well.

The HRE is rich enough and it's lands tight enough to be a very tough nut to crack. And the Teutonic Order can and will cut a bloody swathe trough Hungary OR send a ship of it's own to take the Danish town on the Scandinavian peninsula. Securing AI help via diplomacy in the Northern and Central European regions will be key, as a 2 on 2 melee is very fickle.

The enemy Byzantine Empire is very strong early on, and although a few turns away from the melee in Central Europe, they can come and hit hard. Or they can expand towards the Holy Lands and reach higher money and tech faster. Either way they will be a pain when they come, as they will come in force.

However the Moors can be both hard to take out (need to go trough France to get there by land, need to convert their lands to Catholicism or risk rebellion) and be a pain in the butt for England who has surely left London and Nottingham undefended (or poorly so). Even if the Moors just put their money towards making a fleet it will still be enough - locking the two English ports that supply the channel will cut off reinforcements towards the mainland, and England doesn't have the economy necessary to support both a strong occupational force in France and have a substantial fleet recruited.

Denying the enemy team the option to sell diplomacy/trade rights/map information for early cash will be vital. Fortunately England is locked on its island or has to wait for it's diplomat to trudge trough half of Europe to get to any AI faction. By that time they could be severely starved for gold.

So my advice - France autocalcs it's way to victory versus the inferior English forces (if it's like the RTW autocalc, the unit's stats matter only, not if they are ranged). Perhaps if it can spare a sneaky ship, it does so and sails towards the Danish capital.

The Moors make an effort to backstab England one way of the two ways proposed.

The HRE holds out until it can either retake Hamburg (not likely as it's probably stacked trough the roof), autocalc versus the light Hungarian armies or sneak an army past Hamburg and into Danish territories.

The Teutons help the HRE by either attacking Denmark from the Eastern borders, helping with the siege of Hamburg or going south and splattering Hungary across the planes. That last part is probably not good since the destruction of buildings is forbidden and it will be hard to hold to the territories once the Byzantines arrive.

[phonicsmonkey]

Hey thanks for the feedback! One thing I'd say is that we are no longer playing this game in SS, but instead in KGCM with the hotseat patch where some of the factions have been rebalanced. France and HRE are not as powerful as in SS as far as I can see...

[Myth]

Dang. I even installed SS 6.4 to take a better look. No idea what this other mod is or how it changes the dynamics. England in SS is stronger as they get two extra regions + a better developed York. However their starting stacks are pathetic in the Early period.

Some points still stand however. England is an island nation and as such can be cut off by virtue of a strong enemy fleet. They cannot feed 10+ cogs and have the money to field an occupational force and a strong assault stack that heads towards Paris or another vital French city. The Teutonic Order can sail towards the Danish towns that are undeveloped and hold off the Danes at the choke East of Anthwerp.

Can you give some more details or screenshots? More info on that mod and what it changes would be good as well.

[phonicsmonkey]

Can you give some more details or screenshots? More info on that mod and what it changes would be good as well.

You can find the mod forum here (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=559) at the TWC. There's a sticky thread there that details the special patch for hotseat games that we're using.

By the way if we have a good experience with this mod I'm planning to use it for grand campaign hotseats here at the Org.

With regard to screenshots, my ability to post these will be limited by the fact that I only have one faction's viewpoint on the game and also I can't give too much away to the other team who may look here.

However it is a rule of this game that all battle results be recorded by screenshot, so I will certainly link to those when I do my turn-by-turn update. I'll also post the faction rankings (for what it's worth) and maybe I can persuade the other players to let the admin of the game post a composite map with enough of a lag (probably 5 turns)

By the way the reason we don't have screenshots for the first turn is that we had to restart and we rushed through the replay of that turn without new screenshots. The old ones are inaccurate because the unit size is now different, so I didn't link to them here.

[phonicsmonkey]

Starting positions were 33 territories each. This is the position at the start of turn 2:

https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa181/phonicsmonkeytw/0023-5.jpg
https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa181/phonicsmonkeytw/0026-3.jpg

[Nightbringer]

that is basically unreadable for some reason.. could you maybe paint in the lines?

[phonicsmonkey]

EDIT: ok those were pointless pics, try that instead

it's annoying, I resized them all the same on photobucket so they'd sit in pairs side by side but only one of them has done it

EDIT2: ok that should be better now

[Myth]

Byzantium can just afford to build up and come in like a hurricane, while the others fight since turn one. But if you take their capital they're crippled. Not that it's easy to do though.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Charts!!! I don't need no stinkin' charts!

besides all the good stuff doesn't happen till turn 3 ;)

[phonicsmonkey]

Turn 3: The TWC team desperately grabs land from the AI in preparation for the coming Org onslaught.

Magdeburg is lost by the HRE to the Danes, abandoned in a strategic withdrawal.

11051104

[Thanatos Eclipse]

As a bonus for anyone following over here, I sunk a couple of ERE ships this turn. What I haven't told the netters (going to let them figure it out on their own) is, as luck should have it, one of those ships was carrying nearly a full stack army. Looked like some pretty good units too :thumbsup:

[phonicsmonkey]

As a bonus for anyone following over here, I sunk a couple of ERE ships this turn. What I haven't told the netters (going to let them figure it out on their own) is, as luck should have it, one of those ships was carrying nearly a full stack army. Looked like some pretty good units too :thumbsup:

woohoo! nice work!

I'm going to post an update of turn 4 soon and I'll link to the screenshots in the other thread.

[phonicsmonkey]

Turn 4:

- Prinz Henry of the HRE is defeated in battle by King Richard of England (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9087699#post9087699)

- Angers is liberated by the French, who also win some other minor skirmishes against the English (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9091746#post9091746)

- The Byzantines win a minor battle at sea against the Moors (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9114048#post9114048)

11291130

[Myth]

Oh I was wondering where all the activity for this game was. It's on the .net side of the battlefield then? I'll read up there.

[phonicsmonkey]

Turn 5:

- The ERE defeat the Moors at sea. (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9114048#post9114048)

- The Moors strike back, sinking an ERE troop carrier. (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9117889#post9117889)

- The English resort to bribery against the HRE. (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9118826#post9118826)

- France recaptures Caen and Angers. (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9121729#post9121729)

- The Teutonic Order invades Denmark. (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9134180#post9134180)

Status charts:
https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa181/phonicsmonkeytw/0034-1.jpg
https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa181/phonicsmonkeytw/0035-1.jpg
https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa181/phonicsmonkeytw/0036.jpg

[phonicsmonkey]

Turn 6:

- England's invasion of France is repelled (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9169516#post9169516)
- The Danes drive back Hochmeister Gunther of the Teutonic Order (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9196029#post9196029)
- Elsewhere, the TO break a Danish siege (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9196461#post9196461)
- Otto of the Reich is defeated by King Bela of Hungary in a battle west of Vienna. (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9205290#post9205290)
- ERE-held Naples falls to the Moors. (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9222856#post9222856)

Rankings:

https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa181/phonicsmonkeytw/0034-1.jpg
https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa181/phonicsmonkeytw/0035-1.jpg
https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa181/phonicsmonkeytw/0036.jpg

[Incontinenta Buttox]

As a bonus for anyone following over here, I sunk a couple of ERE ships this turn. What I haven't told the netters (going to let them figure it out on their own) is, as luck should have it, one of those ships was carrying nearly a full stack army. Looked like some pretty good units too :thumbsup:

Ooooh you rotter!

[Myth]

on the .net it seemed that Paris and two other French cities had fallen to England?

[phonicsmonkey]

Yes it seems the English arrived with siege engines this time. I usually wait until the end of the turn to post a round-up so watch this space.

[Myth]

I've been keeping track of the .net thread but decided to voice my opinion here, least I start a flame war there, though it bugs me to see other non-participants express their opinions there.

I know some of the .net guys have accounts here and will probably read this, but since I'm not a part of the contest they can take my words for what they are worth.

Now this was started on Stainless Steel, on which it is impossible to use balistae to open any kind of settlement (they have an "Ineffective against walls" trait right on their unit card). When the game switched out to KGCM the people from .org made a point to ban them. Suddenly - an influx of squabbling and half-wording from the .netters who did not even KNOW one could use ballistae to open walls/gates in vanilla M2TW.

Whilst all the games I see played here ban ballistae alongside merchant forts, spies and crusades/jihads, it seems the .net was oblivious to this rule. Now, one of their players used ballistae to his advantage, because if you don't know if it's legal, surely the best thing is to use it to make a win-win situation (either keep the conquered lands or learn where the enemy is on the reload). When confronted he said "well, I have spies anyway" as if somehow spies opening doors was suddenly legal.

And yet the admin for the game has the audacity to say the .org are defending the no ballista rule because it benefits them more some way. In fact, the no-ballista rule would benefit the .org more now that only the .net has recruited them and brought them to the front. I am sure it would have benefitted the .org just as well if they had them from turn 1.

The spies thing I'm not even going to comment, but i find it odd that the mentality of some of the .netters is "I'll do it if i can get away with it" or "I'll point fingers even though we clearly have an advantage because of the rules disputes and confusion".

It's funny how the same player who tried to sneak in ballista and spy usage was the one crying for screensots when his armies were routed.

humph...

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Try not to think about it too much, it's easier that way :P

In fairness we did stop pursuing the ballista issue when we thought it wasn't going anywhere, at least I did. Guess Tristan just didn't realize :/

[phonicsmonkey]

I'm glad you posted this here rather than over there. Even so, let's not pursue this line of discussion as it has the potential to be contentious.

[Myth]

Aye. But you know I'm right.

[phonicsmonkey]

Not about this: spies are allowed in this game, you just need two of them to open a gate.

Any road, as I said it's better not to stir up trouble. We'll do our talking on the battlefield.

[Visor]

Not about this: spies are allowed in this game, you just need two of them to open a gate.

True.

And I would rather ballistas than spies.

I will reply to Myth's post if he wishes.

[Myth]

Oops must have missed that one. Are assassins allowed to kill family members? This can turn into a spy/assassin massacre then.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Assassins can only kill other agents

[Mordrorru]

It's funny how the same player who tried to sneak in ballista and spy usage was the one crying for screensots when his armies were routed.

humph...

I only asked for a screenshot once, and that was when Caen was taken for the first time via spies, and I had wondered if Tristan had remembered the two spies rule. I never meant to insult anyone's integrity, but I did, and I'm sorry for that. I've been a real problem-person I know, and I'll shut up more in future. :thumbsup:

[phonicsmonkey]

hey Mord, good to see you over here at the jolly old Org!

We look forward to enjoying the rest of the game as you and your colleagues press home your advantage.

[Nightbringer]

hey Mord, good to see you over here at the jolly old Org!

We look forward to enjoying the rest of the game as you and your colleagues press home your advantage.

dito, and I think most of the issue have come from not really knowing each other and not knowing the customs of the other's forum. I think we can move on from here and hopefully avoid any future issues.

[phonicsmonkey]

Until they win - then I'll throw a massive hissy fit, flame everyone over at TWC and use my powers here to have them all banned from the Org in perpetuity.

(JOKING of course :clown:)

[Nightbringer]

I don't know, he might be serious mord


I intend to use my powers [as moderator] for evil, in an arbitrary and brutal reign of terror which will hopefully last for all time.

I won't forget you're publicly stated evil intent this quickly phonics:tongue:

[phonicsmonkey]

Mwuhahahahahaaaa

[Myth]

Pft don't sweat it I was ranting, it's all good.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Ooooh you rotter!

This rotter strikes again. The poor Englishman Arthur and his merry men thought it was safe to sleep on a boat, they were wrong :2thumbsup:

Just the kind of target I was waiting to bring my fleet out of hiding for ;)

[Mordrorru]

We have reserves.

[Myth]

Yes! Naval supremacy of the Moors! I'm happy and feeling all self important now that I predicted this from turn 1 :P Though TE has been outdoing himself, sinking Roman fleets and all. An over achiever to be sure!

[Mordrorru]

Nonsense. Britannia rules the waves!

[Incontinenta Buttox]

France is up by the way.

Cough cough!

[Visor]

IB, can you access TWC?

[_Tristan_]

I can't access TWC... If I manage soemtimes today, I'll play the turn tonight

[Visor]

I cannot access it either. I (I assume Zim has no problem?) will give you an extension until it is back up.

[Incontinenta Buttox]

I haven't been able to access TWC since about 6 hours ago.

TWC is notorious for going down a lot. Hopefully it won't be down for too long.

Perhaps Mord can post the France save directly here, if he pops up?

[Thanatos Eclipse]

The TWC seems to be up again :)

[Myth]

Question: aren't you guys playing with forced autoresolve?

[_Tristan_]

No, the only AR'ed fights are those against human opponents, fights against the AI can be played on the battle map... Why ?

[Incontinenta Buttox]

Off topic a bit,

But how do hotseats function over here at the Org? Do you have a pool of reliable players?

[Myth]

Some of the older players might be better suited to answer but my observation thus far is that the .org has a core of solid guys who have a lot of games behind their backs. Unfortunately most of them are swamped with current games and don't want to join my Catholics vs. Muslims game (grumble).

Tristan: It's because of the .net thread, no worries.

[Incontinenta Buttox]

I miss Phonicmonkey's turn reports.

[Incontinenta Buttox]

Some of the older players might be better suited to answer but my observation thus far is that the .org has a core of solid guys who have a lot of games behind their backs. Unfortunately most of them are swamped with current games and don't want to join my Catholics vs. Muslims game (grumble).

Tristan: It's because of the .net thread, no worries.

You are more than welcome to join a new hotseat I am planning to start over on .net. It's going to be using a brand new mod that I am holping to test right now.

It's set in Dark ages Britian, during the height of the viking incursions.

[Quirl]

Alas that I had to leave this game. Still entertaining to watch, though! Waiting anxiously for the next update. :)

[Myth]

You are more than welcome to join a new hotseat I am planning to start over on .net. It's going to be using a brand new mod that I am holping to test right now.

It's set in Dark ages Britian, during the height of the viking incursions.

Lack of reliable access to a M2TW PC makes me doubtful I'll be able to play a third game ATM. Thank you for the invitation though, I'll check the mod out. Care to point me to it?

[Zim]

Nothing to see here

[phonicsmonkey]

I miss Phonicmonkey's turn reports.

Glad you were enjoying them! I've been time poor recently but I'll try to catch up with these soon..

As to our player base we're dedicated and steady but few in number. Always looking to grow, so please consider hosting a hotseat here and pulling in some players you know from off-site to make up the numbers..

[Visor]

You are more than welcome to join a new hotseat I am planning to start over on .net. It's going to be using a brand new mod that I am holping to test right now.

It's set in Dark ages Britian, during the height of the viking incursions.

The Last Kingdom? Been waiting for a mod like this for ages....

[Incontinenta Buttox]

Lack of reliable access to a M2TW PC makes me doubtful I'll be able to play a third game ATM. Thank you for the invitation though, I'll check the mod out. Care to point me to it?

Here's the link to the Last Kingdom forum.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=867

The team leader, Danova. is one of the finest modders around. The mod is very close to release now. The final beta is now ready, and I'll be testing it over the weekend.:laugh4:

[Myth]

I say, if the .org wins this game the .net players come here to participate in hotseats :) There's a reward Phonics is passionate about, If i ever saw one :)

I took a look at the mod, it's very appealing to me! Especially if the viking nations worship the Norse pantheon (which they should).

[phonicsmonkey]

Turn 7:

- England captures Paris and Rheims (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9249170#post9249170)
- Denmark fights back against the TO (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9277776#post9277776)


Turn 8:
- Moor success at sea for the Org (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9309213#post9309213)
- The Germans take flight (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9311548#post9311548)
- France strikes back, taking Caen and Rennes and defeating Prince Richard (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9338400#post9338400)
- The Danish King defeats the Holy Roman Emperor in battle (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9340836#post9340836)
- And the German attempt to retake Prague is thwarted (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9351197#post9351197)


Turn 9:
- The Moors sink an English fleet, drowning the army on board. (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9357560#post9357560)
- Caen changes hands twice more (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9369727#post9369727)
- The Danish retake Stettin (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9370894#post9370894)
- Magdeburg and Nuremburg fall to the enemy. The Holy Roman Emperor is slain. (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9383506#post9383506)
- A minor skirmish at sea ends with the Byzantines victors. (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9385628#post9385628)

[Incontinenta Buttox]

Gentlemen and opponents from the ORG.

I am going to begin working on an article for the "Eagle Standard" TWC's in-house publication, about our little campaign. I originally planned to let the campaign progress more before starting this, but thre has been a so much action already that I feel the time is right to start work on this.

So gentlemen, I need your help. specifically how you feel the campaign is progressing from your perspective.

I appreciate that as a .NET player participating in this campaign. there might be some concerns as regard to your plans etc. But I am sure we can work around this.

Phonics, as the .ORG captain. Perhaps you can contact me so we can discuss this in more?

Cheers
IB

[Incontinenta Buttox]

HRE turn 10 is ready...

[Myth]

Wow it seems that Phonics will be eliminated shortly... Denmark and Hungary proved too much for HRE+TO. I suppose the hotseat patch really focuses on cav, otherwise the TO stacks would be able to beat Hungarian ones in a 1:2 ratio.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

I think the big thing is that we didn't know this mod, especially how much of a beast England becomes real quickly if unopposed on the isls. Even if the HRE had still been sacrificed it would have been worth it to take out England and secure our backs. At least for my part, if I had realized this at the begining I would have sent troop to England, instead of focusing on securing the HRE's southern flank in Italy.

I'm just hoping to get some good action in Italy in the next couple of turns. The ERE's got a large invasion force in Greece, which should liven things up for me :)

[Myth]

Well I did suggest the moors raise a fleet and drop an army in England. Nottingham is the beating heart of England in any mod I can think of. Take it, and their troop production capabilities are crippled. Since KGCM has buffed archers however, the large archer pools of the English give them a great advantage over their immediate neighbors. Your chance of beating them now is a massive cavalry stack from France but those are expensive...

[phonicsmonkey]

Wow it seems that Phonics will be eliminated shortly... Denmark and Hungary proved too much for HRE+TO. I suppose the hotseat patch really focuses on cav, otherwise the TO stacks would be able to beat Hungarian ones in a 1:2 ratio.

I have made massive strategic errors in this game. It's not over yet though so I'll save the analysis for later.

[Myth]

With screenshots? And graphs and pie charts? :D

[Mordrorru]

I think the big thing is that we didn't know this mod

This.

I'd be really interested in a replay, with new factions, once this round is over, whoever wins, now that you know the mod, if any wanted. (How's that for a sentence?)

But this one's still not over yet, and I know you still have a fair lot of troops. :laugh4:

My question is how there has been so little action between the two most powerful empires in the game, the Moors and the Byzantines. I've barely seen anything but a few ship battles from down there!


Since KGCM has buffed archers however, the large archer pools of the English give them a great advantage over their immediate neighbors

It did sort of, but not really. The point of the hotseat patch was to make cavalry the best units but the most expensive, followed by foot melee units, followed by archers. That's the basic outline anyway. Obviously sucky cavalry (like English Hobilars) can still be beat by average non-cavalry units, etc.

But foot archers are still at the bottom of the totem pole, I'd say. They've just been buffed from "completely worthless" to "not completely worthless."

[Myth]

Hmm... In the KGCM hotseat details thread over at the .net I read that the effectiveness of both foot and horse archers has been buffed. Do the longbowmen still have the AP trait? I'm pretty sure they do, but I haven't really played KGCM so I can't put money on that.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

My question is how there has been so little action between the two most powerful empires in the game, the Moors and the Byzantines. I've barely seen anything but a few ship battles from down there!

Don't worry ;), the line has been drawn and the forces of Southernearth gather, each watching tensely as the hordes of their enemy gather across the pond.

[Quirl]

Don't worry ;), the line has been drawn and the forces of Southernearth gather, each watching tensely as the hordes of their enemy gather across the pond.

Kill kill kill, Thanatos. ;)

I think the biggest problem was not having me on your team. :D

[phonicsmonkey]

I have a few turns worth of updates to catch up on but for now here is the Turn 14 standings:

TWC:
https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa181/phonicsmonkeytw/0182.jpg
https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa181/phonicsmonkeytw/0181.jpg

Org:
https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa181/phonicsmonkeytw/0180.jpg
https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa181/phonicsmonkeytw/0179.jpg

In short we're getting smashed. :laugh4:

[phonicsmonkey]

Sorry for the lack of updates.

The awful truth is that we have been pwnd by the other team and have conceded the match. Our shame will echo down through the ages...

[Myth]

I demand a rematch and earnest satisfaction, sir!

[Myth]

(moved from another thread where i had posted a link to this group http://https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=146- phonicsmonkey)

One thing I must say is that you should have listened to Askthepizzaguy and gotten England as first pick. England is very strong in any mod except for maybe vanilla. There's a reason I chose it for CoG! :)

edit: wow.. he changed his own mind. Or you restarted? Not sure how you ended up with the Holy Roman Target as first choice for the final game. BTW Phonics will there be a rematch with the TWC guys? We don't have Tristan but Thantos, Cecil and Nightbringer are still here, and yourself as well. Perhaps other veterans too? A lot of people are MIA right now. I'd gladly consult or play as well.

Somehow they pulled a fast one on you guys with KGCM, though I still think that one of the best mods to play this on (hotseat patch included). It's messed up AR system has to be tested though, that's not the normal AR system of vanilla or SS or kingdoms.

Regular AR behaves as I described here. Unit order in the stack is indeed important though units with lower defense take the massive casualties over those with large defense. KGCM HS patch has messed with the AR system. Here is the information (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=369925). So basically you guys did a lot of discovering the wheel when the info was already out there (I read this back when the game was still going on but it was too late to help you by that time)

BTW if there is to be a rematch it can be played in Stainless Steel instead, though that does not boast KGCM's HS patch "rebalanced factions"

[phonicsmonkey]

Our biggest mistake was applying the same strategy to KGCM that we had developed for SS 6.3. Our faction picks in the first iteration were sound and we were doing great when that silly movement bug came along and ruined the game. Sure there was a long way to go but I'm confident we would have given much better account of ourselves than we ultimately did.

Unfortunately the restart co-incided with our losing and having to replace players and we were all busy in RL such that we did zero research on KGCM, a mod none of us had played.

Anyway, enough excuses.

Personally I don't like the KGCM mod as it suffers from that love of England that afflicts too many M2TW players. France and HRE are ridiculously nerfed in comparison. Also I don't see the sense in creating a hotseat starting position where several factions can lose settlements to their neighbours on the first turn before they even have a chance to play.

These are just personal opinions of course and no doubt coloured by my unpleasant experience in this game.

I would certainly support a rematch (maybe with fought battles this time?) if you guys wanted to set it up but I would have to decline the chance to play in it.

[Myth]

Fought battles, SS 6.4 Late campaign sounds best then.

[Nightbringer]

That's what I would go for.

[Cecil XIX]

I'd be for it as well.

Edit: Fours sign ups in an hour! Truly a sign from Providence!

[phonicsmonkey]

I count three (remember I'm out) - but we could suggest a 3 vs 3

[Myth]

No, we will get Thanatos up in here to smash some TWC heads! I shall PM him now.

[LooseCannon1]

@phonicsmonkey I feel that SS's England is also overpowered now. With the fortress barracks you get 2 types of billmen and 3 types of heavy infantry. The lowest range can create archers that anyone else gets on the 2nd level. Then they get longbowmen with greater numbers per unit and range. From cities they can get urban milities that are armor-piercing and cavalry bonus. Located on a corner with no land bridges and an AI unable to launch sea invasions makes them an island fortress. All you have to do is overrun Scotland and you're set. They also get an economy too powerful for its time period.

[Myth]

England in SS is kind of overpowered (other than because It's an island nation etc.) because it has too many settlements. In CoG I took down Scotland by turn 3-4 and then all of the isles, the two towns in Ireland as well, by turn 6-7. That kept me even with Silver who beat the Fatamids! In essence England gets two factions worth of starting provinces basically for free.

Forget about Fortresses in hotseat however - no one is ever getting one unless we fast forward for 100 turns under AI control like we did in MoT. If you start at turn 1, be it Early or Late, any hotseat will be far gone before anyone but an AI can get to Fortress level.

The Italian militia are better, but the archer pools for England are awesome, though you must understand that those do jack in an AR game.

[LooseCannon1]

Actually, in SS Late Era, most factions start out with a fortress somewhere. Portugal, Genoa, Cumans, Teutonic Order, Byzantium, both Russians, Denmark, Norway, and the Mongols are the factions that don't get one to start. Not that the Mongols need one and Byzantium can try and rush Corinth to get that one. Also Toulose and Pamplona(rebels) start as fortresses. Yes, there's a lot of fortresses on first turn of Late Era. Also, I've been able to get "fortress upgrade" messages for Bern and Canakkale in 2 different hotseats by turn 32. Canakkale will be my 4th fortress (in that game) if I don't capture Varad from the Hungary player first.:laugh4:

[phonicsmonkey]

I think England is OP in most mods as well as vanilla, mostly because it's an island but also because of the troops it gets and the easy AI factions it can take out early.

At least in SS its local neighbours France and the HRE are reasonably powerful themselves.

[Myth]

Wait I confused Fortress with the last level of a castle to be attained, the one that requires 22500 population (basically for SS if you're human - all the farms + a 10 chiv general with an architect). Was it called a Citadel or what?

[Nightbringer]

yes, citadel is the last

[phonicsmonkey]

Let me know when you guys want me to put the challenge out at the TWC.

I'm going to propose a 4v4 game, hosted here (they can have a mirror thread there), called "When Worlds Collide 2: The Org Strikes Back" using SS6.4 and with fought battles.

[Nightbringer]

I would be up for it whenever

[Thanatos Eclipse]

No, we will get Thanatos up in here to smash some TWC heads! I shall PM him now.

Sorry guys, you're going to have to go at this one without me, I just don't have the time right now for any more games.

[Myth]

Whom else should we get on? I'd have said SilverShileld for a fought battles game but the .net players can get fussy about the rules of a game and he has a short fuse :laugh4: Monkey you have to step up.

[Nightbringer]

Whom else should we get on? I'd have said SilverShileld for a fought battles game but the .net players can get fussy about the rules of a game and he has a short fuse :laugh4: Monkey you have to step up.

silver is also very active on the .net I think, so he wouldn't necessarily play for us.

[phonicsmonkey]

What about slysnake?