Marian reform

[vladiator]

Hi

The year is about 150bc and in my last turn my consul got the "reformator" characteristic. All other requirements for the Marian reform are also satisfied. What do I do next to actually start building new units? I know I am supposed to upgrade the barracks, but when I right-click on barracks in the construction window in my cities, they still show that they will build Polybian (hestii, triarii, etc), not Marian, units.

Any suggestions?

[QuintusSertorius]

I thought you were supposed to destroy and rebuild the barracks?

I've no idea, to be honest, I've never had the Marian reforms in any game I've played.

[Blxz]

I thought you were supposed to destroy and rebuild the barracks?

I've no idea, to be honest, I've never had the Marian reforms in any game I've played.

Correct, new barracks. I think in EB 1.2 that all towns are given the first level which should allow you to build vigiles in most towns. You need to get to about the third level MIC to start building those nice new units.

[Iraklis]

The reforms dont happen imidiatly, give it a few turns and you will get them as normal. No need to destroy barracks as far as i know, just upgrade them.

[Rahl]

When the marian reforms occur all your barracks get damaged and marian barracks of the same level are placed by the script.

[vladiator]

Thanks everyone. I haven't gone to the next turn after getting the Reformator skill, so maybe I will need to wait a bit before panicking.

[Taedius]

I had to wait a few years before the reforms set in, so be patient.

[vladiator]

To update regarding the status of the reform -- approximately 12 years past since the conditions for the reform were satisfied. The family member with the reformator trait has already died (assossinated about 2 years after the conditions were satisfied). I have build new barracks in some level 1 and 2 towns. And still no reform.

Can the fact that the reformator died affect the reform? Or is it just a bug and I should manually enable the reform?

Thanks.

[Rahl]

Can the fact that the reformator died affect the reform? Or is it just a bug and I should manually enable the reform?
IIRC the script checks for all conditions before it places the reform markers and one of the conditions is the existing reformator-trait. So know the reforms can't happen because you have no more FM with the trait (but you could use the console commands to change this). Though it should need less then the 2 years you had for the reforms to happen.
Are you really sure about all the other conditions? Did you ever activate the script?

[vladiator]

IIRC the script checks for all conditions before it places the reform markers and one of the conditions is the existing reformator-trait. So know the reforms can't happen because you have no more FM with the trait (but you could use the console commands to change this). Though it should need less then the 2 years you had for the reforms to happen.
Are you really sure about all the other conditions? Did you ever activate the script?

Thanks, Rahl. Yes, I always activate the script. Not sure about when exactly the member died -- maybe it was, as yoiu said, within 2 years since the conditions were satisfied and the reform was simply not yet activated.

OK, I will be waiting for the next reformator. Unfortunately, although I have some promising family members, none of them are popularis... :(

[Rahl]

I would change the script to activate the reforms, just delete the part with the reformator trait. If you don't know how, there are several threads that describe that, just search for "change reform conditions" or something like that.

[Paltmull]

Or even better, lower the amont of settlements that need to be conquered for the reforms to kick in regardless of the "reformator" stuff. It's 90 by default, I think.

[Walle]

Isn't the default number of regions 45?

[Paltmull]

-At least the year 172BC
-Have more than 6 Latifundia built in Italy
-Hold at least 45 settlements
-Fight more than 250 battles
-Have a character that is:
Sharp/Charismatic/Vigorous
Popularis
Consul or Ex-Consul
Has Influence > 2
Has Command > 2
OR
-Conquer 90 settlements.

I was referring to the part after the "or". If you reach that number you won't have to bother about the other things.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I was referring to the part after the "or". If you reach that number you won't have to bother about the other things.

This is how I trigger the Marian reforms. It's much easier to conquer 90 settlements than to wait until some reformator finally arrives.

[Walle]

Oh I see. Btw, how do you get the "Popularis" and "Consul/Ex-Consul" traits?

[Biowulf]

This is what I think, if I'm wrong please correct me:
Popularis is fairly random and the chances of getting it are affected by family, temple, parents, wealth. The best way to get it is have your FM sit in a city with a temple to Ceres and have some low taxes.
Consul is a bit easier and depends on his stats (command, management, influence) I believe, and he has to go through the other offices first.

[Walle]

Ok, but if I have a FM who has S/C/V, U/O/L, about 4 command, about 4 management, 10 influence and has the trait that's like "elite within the elite" or something and a bunch of other positive and "socially elite" -traits, is the only thing I can do make him the governor somewhere with a temple to Ceres or..?

Oh and he is the Faction Leader and has the "Pontifex Maximus" -trait, and a bunch of other ex-"something political" -traits too.

[Rahwana]

I have no problem with getting Reformator traits, just make sure you fight most of your battle with one of your SCV and Popularis generals, make him heir if you want

[Paltmull]

This is how I trigger the Marian reforms. It's much easier to conquer 90 settlements than to wait until some reformator finally arrives.

AND you can lower the number by editing the script if you want the reforms earlier.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

AND you can lower the number by editing the script if you want the reforms earlier.

I've tried it. But it's much challenging to conquer those 90 settlements with what ever troops you have available at the moment.

[Lysimachos]

I remember when I first played Romans in EB I reached both triggers roughly at the same time, meaning I had 90 provinces half a year or so before my reformer was ready. I played rather fast, though, in that playthrough. Nowadays I tend to play them as a slowmoving, yet unstoppable force with attention to detail. :-) For me, that makes the reformer trigger more easy to reach than the number of provinces.

[Taedius]

I seem completely unable to get the Reformator-trait in my current campain. Is being faction-leader a problem? It's 155 BC, and it seems I'll reach 90 provinces before a "proper" reform takes place.

[Basileus_ton_Basileon]

Aside from the (greatly) widened recruitment base and the larger unit size, I find the overall quality of the marian legions to be of a lower quality to polybian troops. I guess they didn't have a choice back then though, given the failure of the gracchii reforms and the depleting of the middle class...

[Taedius]

It's precicely the recruitment base that's important. Once you hit Asia Minor, Egypt, etc, getting solid troops close by is tricky. Many usefull auxilliaries, but little to base an army on. I'll be facing phalanx spam, after all.

[Molinaargh]

So this is the thread we post our great Reformators?

https://i.imgur.com/lFoOF.jpg

I started that campaign roleplaying as a single Roman family, Aemilius Lepidus (I think I married off a daughter to a Lepidus and killed all other family members). They were a noble family, and so unlikely to get the Reformator trait.

When the time for a Reformator to arise came I married Spurius into the family to get the Reformator thread more easily, since he was a plebeian. The Augustus thing was a bug, I didn't meet the recquired conditions, but it still made sense, with him being awesome and all.

[Africanus]

It's precicely the recruitment base that's important. Once you hit Asia Minor, Egypt, etc, getting solid troops close by is tricky. Many usefull auxilliaries, but little to base an army on. I'll be facing phalanx spam, after all.

In my current campaign I tried to time the reform to the historical 107 bc time frame, but my plan didn't work out and it didn't come until 87 bc. Needless to say, I was already involved in Egypt and Asia Minor at that point. What I did was build several small fleets and like an assembly line constantly ferry in reinforcements from Italy. I actually prefer the Polybians anyway.

In my last campaign I tried to get the reforms ASAP and had the Imperial by 150 bc. :laugh4:

[Africanus]

So this is the thread we post our great Reformators?

https://i.imgur.com/lFoOF.jpg

I started that campaign roleplaying as a single Roman family, Aemilius Lepidus (I think I married off a daughter to a Lepidus and killed all other family members). They were a noble family, and so unlikely to get the Reformator trait.

When the time for a Reformator to arise came I married Spurius into the family to get the Reformator thread more easily, since he was a plebeian. The Augustus thing was a bug, I didn't meet the recquired conditions, but it still made sense, with him being awesome and all.

Were you using the command stars mod? I can't ever seem to get a general over six stars, no matter how great he performs.

[Molinaargh]

Were you using the command stars mod? I can't ever seem to get a general over six stars, no matter how great he performs.
I wasn't. Just make your Sharp/Vigorous FM fight a lot of battles. A lot of battles.

His two sons have 5 and 6 stars in their thirties.

[Paltmull]

I've tried it. But it's much challenging to conquer those 90 settlements with what ever troops you have available at the moment.

Dammit! Why doesn't anyone understand what I'm saying? You can edit the script to lower the number of settlements required! If you want the reforms earlier, you can change the number 90 to, say, 70, or whatever other number you'd like. So if some kind of bug is stopping the reform to occur for vladiator he (or she? I think not, lol) could just lower the number of required settlements to 1 more than what he already has. And when he conquers 1 more settlement, he'll get the reforms.