View Full Version : What's that college degree worth?
Hosakawa Tito
12-12-2010, 11:49
According to this article (http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2010/11/22/value-of-a-chinese-college-degree-44/?blog_id=72&post_id=11852) about $44. And as a companion piece, China's Army of Graduates Struggle for Good Jobs (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/12/world/asia/12beijing.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&src=ig).
Thus, China, too, learns an ultimate truth: Everyone is not above average (or, in the American iteration, Everyone can't "get ahead.") Sooner or later, no matter how much learnin' you have, society will run out of jobs requiring learnin'.
Choose your career choice carefully boys and girls.
a completely inoffensive name
12-12-2010, 12:25
According to this article (http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2010/11/22/value-of-a-chinese-college-degree-44/?blog_id=72&post_id=11852) about $44. And as a companion piece, China's Army of Graduates Struggle for Good Jobs (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/12/world/asia/12beijing.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&src=ig).
Thus, China, too, learns an ultimate truth: Everyone is not above average (or, in the American iteration, Everyone can't "get ahead.") Sooner or later, no matter how much learnin' you have, society will run out of jobs requiring learnin'.
Choose your career choice carefully boys and girls.
I think it is disingenuous to talk bad about the worth of a college degree in country that is most definitely in its early to mid stage of industrialization, still lacking a middle class majority to fuel demand for post industrial jobs.
Hosakawa Tito
12-12-2010, 12:35
Hehehe, you think China is the only country with this problem, heck they're the canary in the coal mine? How many recent college graduates from the Eurozone, US, UK, and Canada are finding the job market a bit tight? Certainly, some of them post here.
a completely inoffensive name
12-12-2010, 12:49
Hehehe, you think China is the only country with this problem, heck they're the canary in the coal mine? How many recent college graduates from the Eurozone, US, UK, and Canada are finding the job market a bit tight? Certainly, some of them post here.
So you are saying that because we have an economy under performing and there is an unusual amount of increased job competition for undergrad required jobs, that suddenly evened out the college and high school only grads even though before the crash, undergrads were making an extra $20,000 a year in average over high school grads?
Lol, job market tight. Talk to detroit workers and then tell me how undergrad workers have been struggling. College educated workers are at 5% unemployment compared with 9.5% nationally. Idk, why people always try to justify not having more education. Is it too expensive? Oh yeah, it should not be where it is in price. Is it worth it? Always.
Also depends on the degree you took. For useless degrees, it isn't worth anything, but for the important ones, there are always jobs.
Rhyfelwyr
12-12-2010, 14:40
I think it is disingenuous to talk bad about the worth of a college degree in country that is most definitely in its early to mid stage of industrialization, still lacking a middle class majority to fuel demand for post industrial jobs.
Yep, when China pushed the education thing we in the west were all so impressed, we seem to think they are immune from having the same problems we do. At the end of the day if you don't have the grassroots development in society and the economy, such measures will always be artificial, and can't last.
Tellos Athenaios
12-12-2010, 18:07
Actually in China the issue as portrayed by the article is that jobs might exist but require social connections to get. So moving to get a job is essentially self-defeating, and the only real option would be for these people to create their own jobs/start enterprises locally.
In America the issue is different. Often, programmes simply are not very good or even adequate. There are top education programmes in the states, but there are also utter rubbish ones. See the negative connotation attached to CS degrees for an example. As a result a generic degree doesn't really count for much.
Crazed Rabbit
12-12-2010, 18:16
I'm happy with the return on my college degree.
It should be noted that even with an engineering degree and experience, it can still be tough to find a job.
CR
Hosakawa Tito
12-12-2010, 21:36
So you are saying that because we have an economy under performing and there is an unusual amount of increased job competition for undergrad required jobs, that suddenly evened out the college and high school only grads even though before the crash, undergrads were making an extra $20,000 a year in average over high school grads?
Lol, job market tight. Talk to detroit workers and then tell me how undergrad workers have been struggling. College educated workers are at 5% unemployment compared with 9.5% nationally. Idk, why people always try to justify not having more education. Is it too expensive? Oh yeah, it should not be where it is in price. Is it worth it? Always.
Ahh, but are the recently graduated college educated workers that are employed actually working in their chosen field of study let alone making enough to pay off their expensive loans? Not necessarily. That's why I said "choose wisely".
Also depends on the degree you took. For useless degrees, it isn't worth anything, but for the important ones, there are always jobs.
Yes, but not everyone is a Rhodes Scholar. The hot career choices of today can & do change tomorrow.
I'm happy with the return on my college degree.
It should be noted that even with an engineering degree and experience, it can still be tough to find a job.
CR
Good for you CR. Here's another article (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/12/business/12yec.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss&src=ig) that not only illustrates my point, but demonstrates the can do spirit it takes in this tough economic climate.
The Stranger
12-13-2010, 00:08
Also depends on the degree you took. For useless degrees, it isn't worth anything, but for the important ones, there are always jobs.
what would qualify for a useless degree???
Choose your career choice carefully boys and girls.
I'm going to study Chinese language and culture, sir, so I can help Chinese graduates that experience post-graduation stress! And apparently, there are a lot of them!
a completely inoffensive name
12-13-2010, 01:05
Ahh, but are the recently graduated college educated workers that are employed actually working in their chosen field of study let alone making enough to pay off their expensive loans? Not necessarily. That's why I said "choose wisely".
At least they have jobs. Like I said, only 5% of undergrads are unemployed compared to 9.5% nationally. They get chosen over less educated people for jobs they were not even trained for and when the economy bounces back they will regain their income advantage over high school grads. Again, idk why you are trying to make this whole thing into a point that education=rip off.
PanzerJaeger
12-13-2010, 05:20
what would qualify for a useless degree???
Communications, theatre, psychology, philosophy, art, and African-American studies are all big wastes of time and money , known as joke degrees at my school. They allow you to party for four years and still at least have a degree to show for it at the end of the day. Colleges will allow you to buy a degree in just about anything you want.
Reenk Roink
12-13-2010, 05:48
If you are looking for the most money and job security, med school, law school, b-school. Obviously you will pay a ton of money, but it is worth the investment if you're good enough.
Next there is engineering in general - obviously some are in more demand than others. Again, you have to be good. I've noticed quite a few Engineering kids with grey hairs.
Math majors are pretty good, though I'd recommend something like a double major with some engineering field or a math minor.
Then consider a major in the sciences. Again there is a gradation. Physics is boss, them Chemistry/Biology. Once you start going down to Neuroscience and Psychology... yeah... :shrug: It gets worse when you go to social sciences. Say you are really interested in astronomy. Rather than take a major in astronomy/astrophysics, just get a general physics major and take a lot of astro classes.
If you are really interested in some humanities major, but also want a good job, well then you should be good enough and passionate enough to get a PHD.
Given the nature of this forum, I know a lot of people are interested in history and consider being history majors. I did myself. The thing is, I still like history, but I have found that I can pursue my interest in history on my own terms. Think about it, you have access to online databases and huge libraries. Go and research whatever you want on your own time, without needing to declare a major! I must have checked out almost every damn book on the Punic Wars though I never took a class related to the period.
Finally, if you are a person who has no pressing need to get a job out of school, then study whatever you want at your leisure, you are one of the lucky ones. :2thumbsup:
a completely inoffensive name
12-13-2010, 08:19
If you are looking for the most money and job security, med school, law school, b-school. Obviously you will pay a ton of money, but it is worth the investment if you're good enough.
Next there is engineering in general - obviously some are in more demand than others. Again, you have to be good. I've noticed quite a few Engineering kids with grey hairs.
Math majors are pretty good, though I'd recommend something like a double major with some engineering field or a math minor.
Then consider a major in the sciences. Again there is a gradation. Physics is boss, them Chemistry/Biology. Once you start going down to Neuroscience and Psychology... yeah... :shrug: It gets worse when you go to social sciences. Say you are really interested in astronomy. Rather than take a major in astronomy/astrophysics, just get a general physics major and take a lot of astro classes.
If you are really interested in some humanities major, but also want a good job, well then you should be good enough and passionate enough to get a PHD.
Given the nature of this forum, I know a lot of people are interested in history and consider being history majors. I did myself. The thing is, I still like history, but I have found that I can pursue my interest in history on my own terms. Think about it, you have access to online databases and huge libraries. Go and research whatever you want on your own time, without needing to declare a major! I must have checked out almost every damn book on the Punic Wars though I never took a class related to the period.
Finally, if you are a person who has no pressing need to get a job out of school, then study whatever you want at your leisure, you are one of the lucky ones. :2thumbsup:
Math majors hold up on their own as well as any engineering or med school or law school degree. If you have a math degree and you are having trouble finding a job, the problem is probably you.
Communications, theatre, psychology, philosophy, art, and African-American studies are all big wastes of time and money , known as joke degrees at my school. They allow you to party for four years and still at least have a degree to show for it at the end of the day. Colleges will allow you to buy a degree in just about anything you want.
Wrong. Psychologists are highly demanded in the mental health profession, they are also demanded in Business and other environments. Psychology is a Science with strict scientific procedure, statistics, and a range of analytic tools.
"Psychology-Lite" courses on the other hand, are junk.
As for Useless degrees, they are courses with no career options or choices afterwords. A Psychology student can end up working as a Clinical Psychologist. An Architect will obviously be an architect. Getting a Medical Science degree will give you access to many options in the field of medicine. Computer Science (you can guess).
What does African-American studies get you a career in? What does Philosophy get you a career in? What does the Lady Gaga Sociology course get you a career in?
Math majors hold up on their own as well as any engineering or med school or law school degree. If you have a math degree and you are having trouble finding a job, the problem is probably you.
Actually, it is because there isn't any "Maths" careers outside of being a Maths teacher. Engineers do engineer courses, Physics-related do physics. Accountants do accounting degrees. There is a big situation in the UK where people with Maths degrees cannot get a good job because there is no career paths open for them.
Ser Clegane
12-13-2010, 16:21
Actually, it is because there isn't any "Maths" careers outside of being a Maths teacher. Engineers do engineer courses, Physics-related do physics. Accountants do accounting degrees. There is a big situation in the UK where people with Maths degrees cannot get a good job because there is no career paths open for them.
That is very strange - usually e.g. banks, insurance companies and other finance related businesses offer quite a lot of jobs for people with a maths degree.
Communications, theatre, psychology, philosophy, art, and African-American studies are all big wastes of time and money , known as joke degrees at my school. They allow you to party for four years and still at least have a degree to show for it at the end of the day. Colleges will allow you to buy a degree in just about anything you want.
The truth of this statement depends on what the person does with the degree. Communications majors have an advantage going into journalism, so if that's your chosen field, then that's a good major to take. Theatre is useful if you want to be involved in the entertainment business. Psychology is a major plus if you plan on becoming a licensed therapist or getting a MD or PhD in that field. Philosophy is a joke on its own, but it's a good start for law school as well as for careers in education. Art and African-American Studies... well... yeah, kind of useless, but if you get good grades and plan on getting a graduate degree, you can still get by with those.
Like I said, it's all about what you plan on doing. An engineering degree is useless if you want to own a cupcake shop. It's all a question of focusing your education towards a specific goal.
That is very strange - usually e.g. banks, insurance companies and other finance related businesses offer quite a lot of jobs for people with a maths degree.
I don't know why... However, they do have one of the highest earnings over a lifetime though, if they do get employed.
That is very strange - usually e.g. banks, insurance companies and other finance related businesses offer quite a lot of jobs for people with a maths degree.
A mathematics degree is also desired for some computer jobs. Statistics, probability, and algorithm knowledge are all highly desired fields for software engineering.
Devastatin Dave
12-13-2010, 17:23
No college degree for me. I make double the money my wife makes and she's a structural engineer. You just have to get the inside track on things and know the right people. But the Air Force did open the doors for me mostly....
Louis VI the Fat
12-13-2010, 17:54
I make double the money my wife makes and she's a structural engineer.Yes, well I told her that somebody with an engineering degree shouldn't seek a career as exotic dancer. :no:
Devastatin Dave
12-13-2010, 18:02
Yes, well I told her that somebody with an engineering degree shouldn't seek a career as exotic dancer. :no:
But she's really good at it...
Actually many of those dancer "working for college" make very good money. If I wasn't afraid of tripping over my unusually large penis while on stage, I'd consider a career change....
a completely inoffensive name
12-14-2010, 01:03
Actually, it is because there isn't any "Maths" careers outside of being a Maths teacher. Engineers do engineer courses, Physics-related do physics. Accountants do accounting degrees. There is a big situation in the UK where people with Maths degrees cannot get a good job because there is no career paths open for them.
That doesn't make sense. Mathematicians are literally a master of all trades. Economics, business planning, teaching, cryptology, pure research, engineering, computer science, any and all kinds of sciences are open to you. You will not be planning the building yourself but engineering is a great place for mathematicians to come in, double check the work or quite possibly do the work, supplementing an engineer who has too many projects on his table. No, quite frankly any job where math is used to a high degree, math majors can compete and succeed in.
Seamus Fermanagh
12-14-2010, 01:32
But she's really good at it...
Actually many of those dancer "working for college" make very good money. If I wasn't afraid of tripping over my unusually large penis while on stage, I'd consider a career change....
A rapidly changing center of gravity can make balance difficult. On the other hand, if you were to take the necessary steps to insure that your tugidity level were constant, you would have a predictable center of mass -- and be able to boogie -- despite your....personal abnormality.
Strike For The South
12-14-2010, 03:22
90% of the Chineese students I work/interact with are quite simply, socially stunted.
You need to be able to charm people
Devastatin Dave
12-14-2010, 04:50
A rapidly changing center of gravity can make balance difficult. On the other hand, if you were to take the necessary steps to insure that your tugidity level were constant, you would have a predictable center of mass -- and be able to boogie -- despite your....personal abnormality.
So, there... is ... hope? Thank you Seamus, thank you. You have no idea the pains I have suffered with the affliction of my abdnormally large penis.
Actually many of those dancer "working for college" make very good money. If I wasn't afraid of tripping over my unusually large penis while on stage, I'd consider a career change....
:laugh4:
Hosakawa Tito
12-14-2010, 11:51
So, there... is ... hope? Thank you Seamus, thank you. You have no idea the pains I have suffered with the affliction of my abdnormally large penis.
Heck Dave, seeing that you're bringing your own, you shouldn't even need their pole...
rory_20_uk
12-14-2010, 15:30
A rapidly changing center of gravity can make balance difficult. On the other hand, if you were to take the necessary steps to insure that your tugidity level were constant, you would have a predictable center of mass -- and be able to boogie -- despite your....personal abnormality.
The sudden delpetion of blood from the systemic flow would probably endanger collapse.
Undertaking methods to keep this turgor would cause venous stasis and thrombous formation which in the short term would cause pain from hypoxia and require drainage by syringe, and if not treated could lead to gangrene.
~:smoking:
and if not treated could lead to gangrene.
And amputation. :eeeek:
rory_20_uk
12-14-2010, 16:05
We had a patient that required that. The story was he was trying to purge the impure thoughts he was having. It so happened that he was being treated by two junior female doctors so they relayed his thoughts to the blokes to try to gain some understanding. Basically we all concluded we had the exact same thoughts most of the time and felt no need to get a syringe and car battery acid and inject it into our testicles...
~:smoking:
Megas Methuselah
12-15-2010, 05:45
We had a patient that required that. The story was he was trying to purge the impure thoughts he was having. It so happened that he was being treated by two junior female doctors so they relayed his thoughts to the blokes to try to gain some understanding. Basically we all concluded we had the exact same thoughts most of the time and felt no need to get a syringe and car battery acid and inject it into our testicles...
~:smoking:
So... you guys... cut it off?
rory_20_uk
12-15-2010, 10:41
Not just "it", the other two were also too damaged to save.
Never seen / heard anything quite as messed up since where I work.
~:smoking:
ICantSpellDawg
12-16-2010, 16:31
Education is worth everything, unfortunately the worth has been far outstripped by the cost of modern education. In reality, we as a society DO need people who work as janitors/police/gardeners/etc to have college degrees. The quality and intelligence of their work will show and we will all benefit from it. They will benefit by having a better understanding of personal finance, running their own business, keeping their families together and squeezing every bit of happiness out of their lives.
The beauty of this new reality is that education is becoming free or very low priced. Someone who went to Khan Academy (http://www.khanacademy.org/)and watched every episode would have a better education than most college graduates these days. The only thing seperating these people is a peice of paper and tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.
A national civil service test would help solve these problems. Universities would be relegated to their true status as large optional tutoring institutions, but an individual would be able to amass that information on their own by using the incredible resources that the internet has opened up for us.
Every child in private or public schools nationally could recieve world class lectures for info on a big screen and have a lower paid aid in the class to work out the specifics. Imagine the savings and benefit.
I could go on forever about the amazing and inexpensive future of education.
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