Really need help in the game!!! [Archive]

Morgoth101

12-28-2010, 19:33

Morgoth101

12-28-2010, 19:50

TosaInu

12-28-2010, 20:00

Hello !@#$%^&*,

1. Chariots are pretty tough. It's been a while since I played RTW, but I'd use pikes and missiles.
2. Is the problem the speed? You can try it step by step first by pausing the game. Make it even easier for yourself and start with skirmisch battles first. Give the enemy army 1 unit and take 3 yourself.
3. It's either a siege tower or a ballista? I think you mean an archer unit inside a siege tower, when the bridge is down, they could shoot I suppose.
4. Pin and backstab.
5. Consider putting some units in those settlements to keep the people loyal.

Morgoth101

12-28-2010, 20:14

For point 3, i meant those archers in the towers, they helped me sometimes in sieges for getting rid of units on the wall, so i wanted to know how to control them. In one custom battle, i was as the Julii, defending against Carthage. Their siege towers wiped out my archers on the wall before breaching the wall itself. So i thought i could try that too.
For point 5, i can keep them loyal enough, the problem is no matter how much i focus on economy, i cant get a good income. I even built temples for happiness so that i could increase tax, but it didnt work.
But thanks a lot for the help for the other ponits!!!

TosaInu

12-28-2010, 20:27

I'm not aware of the possibility to control them !@#$%^&*. Smaller cities need to develop first to generate some income, and still then: some areas are richer than others. I'ld try to keep them mine, even if it costs me some money. The income will be there later.

For more income you construct better farmlands, roads and ports for trade. Roads and ports have the extra benefit of your army moving faster. Ports are pretty expensive and it may not pay off to just build them anywhere. Have you checked the RTW Guides forum? There's a topic with hints and tips for every faction. Frogbeastegg wrote a very nice guide for RTW and there are tons of topics in the Ludus Magna to assist you even more.

Morgoth101

12-28-2010, 20:49

I usually prefer not to build farmlands after the 2nd level as it increases population growth too much and causes happiness problems later.
But thanks a lot! I think this would REALLY come in handy!

TosaInu

12-28-2010, 22:01

That's a good point !@#$%^&*.

Lord Reid of Britannica

12-29-2010, 01:02

Morgoth101

12-29-2010, 13:55

Also, watch how many units you train in relation to how many cities you own as due to your starting cities' size they will be covering a lot of the cost of the upkeep of your army and this can cause you to go into negatives. If you're having no problem with keeping happiness levels high try disbanding a few unnecessary units here and there it will really help keep your income in the green.

Thanks usually in my games with the romans i find that after about 20-25 turns one of my starting cities have incomes of up to + 4000 Denarii, but my other starting city
has -4000 Denarii income :-P
But this info should help!
By the way i unlocked the other factions today!(short campaign with scipii). I started Egypt- their might really IS unmatched! In the first 10-20 turns i controlled almost the whole of Asia Minor! They rule!!!

ReluctantSamurai

12-30-2010, 03:04

It’s a common misconception that upgrading farmland always leads to squalor and the resulting discontent. There are some areas that need only lvl 1 farms, like Carthage, Alexandria, Syracuse, Tanais, Chersonesos, etc., because they have a built-in grain bonus (marked by a wheat sheaf on the campaign map). There are definitely areas that need max farms to reach 24k….Sparta, Corinth, most cities in Anatolia, and any in barbarian country. And even then, you will need a boost from ancillaries such as “Grain Merchant” or “Overseer” or “Architect” along with a governor that has +farming traits, to reach the top tier of development for these cities. The key to controlling squalor and unrest is to achieve ZPG (Zero Population Growth). If you do that, you have no problems with squalor or unrest for as long as you maintain the ZPG.

Everyone has their own way and pace to develop. I’ll chip in here with mine….

1. I always build roads on the first turn in every province I own (with a few exceptions). They are the arteries for your infrastructure. I raise taxes as high as I can without causing outright rebellion. Early on, you can get away with this because populations are small and you generally have decent governors. I disband what I consider to be useless units to reduce unit upkeep. For me, these are skirmishers, slingers, town watch and peasants (unless they are needed as garrison) and excess militia cavalry (although I do use some of these).

2. Basic farms on turn two for those provinces without it, and/or a port for provinces with port potential. Trade income via port, will come to constitute well over 50% of your income. It will bring in more money than taxes and mining combined, so get started on it as soon as possible. A simple port can handle one trade route and allows the training of biremes (or small boats for barbarian factions). A shipyard can handle two trade routes and allows the training of triremes (or large boats). A dockyard can handle three trade routes and allows the training of quinquiremes.

3. Next comes temple choice. Do not be afraid of growth/fun temples for those settlements with less than 1k population. You can always replace it with another at a later stage when you’ve achieved the desired level of development, and the population is small enough to not need a governor (who might be saddled with undesirable traits such temples often confer). Pick your troop training settlements and use temples that grant bonuses for your units. Use law and order temples for all other areas. Always look to see what the highest level of temple will give you, as some choices are deceptive in what they can do for you. As an example, the Brutii temple of Mercury appears to give you a better choice for increased trade. But the Juno temple will grant the increased trade bonus at the pantheon level in addition to a +2 exp bonus, and is the best law and order temple. So in the long run, the Juno temple is the better choice, in my opinion.

4. Early on, I try to get by on only the barracks types that I feel are essential. This allows me to get my economic infrastructure off and running. But, obviously, some development in that area is necessary and needs vary as to faction and game situation.

5. From there, upgrades are done as need arises, and subject to what funds are available. Make sure to keep your unit upkeep costs and wages to family members at 50-60% of your total net worth. Any higher and you start to lose the capacity to train new units and do continual upgrades or new construction. That’s been my experience, at any rate. You can keep track of all this on your financial screen.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head, at the moment. Hope this helps.

ReluctantSamurai

12-30-2010, 03:27

As to stopping chariots, there are several ways to do this, and some factions have better units to do it than others. (And btw, chariots for this time period are the game designers cheese. Nearly all chariot use on the battlefield was discontinued almost 100 years before the starting date for RTW).

You can use massed spear/pike to stop the scythed type. Chariot archers will more than likely skirmish to death any slow-moving infantry. If you can cause a chariot unit to use up its charge bonus, they become very vulnerable to destruction as their hit-points get used up. Militia hoplites have to be used in large numbers and packed densely as they are prone to rout. Levy pikes, or phalanx pikes work really well as they have 50% more soldiers than hoplites and you can form them in ten or twelve deep ranks. Two units of these will kill most any scythed chariot unit. Elite phalanx like armored hoplites, spartans, royal pike, silvershields, sacred band, etc., can handle most any chariot charge all by themselves...as long as they don't get flanked.

Archers are also a good way to stop chariots. The Roman Archer Auxillia, Cretan mercs, or any of the elite foot archers like Chosen Archers, Forester Warbands, etc., will shred Chariot Archers...eventually...but they need protection from a chariot melee charge by an infantry or cavalry screen.

And now....for the premier chariot-killer..........the Cataphract Horse Archer! These things will eat chariots for lunch and still have time to join in whatever mayhem is happening on other parts of the battlefield. They have a very high defensive rating and so take few losses compared to what they are dishing out, they have very good missile attack numbers...better than the chariots, and best of all, they shoot while chasing so the chariots are often taking rear or flanking fire which hastens their demise. While not recommended until you whittle down the chariots numbers, that high defensive rating allows Cataphract Archers to close to melee when necessary. My typical Armenian field army to defeat wandering Egyptian stacks is usually 1 general, 9 Heavy Cataphracts (for dealing with the desert axmen) and 10 Cataphract Archers. On h/h, I've destroyed several Egyptian stacks in the same battle (need a top-flight cavalry genius for this, of course) on more than one occasion that were loaded with chariot archers.

Again...just some meanderings off the top of my head that I hope is of some use.

Good luck.

Morgoth101

12-30-2010, 10:43

Thanks a lot for the help! I usually build up to Communal Farming for roman, greek, carthiginian and egyptian factions while I build Crop Rotation or Latifunda for barbarian settlements to get a population boost. For temples, I usually build the ones with experience and weapon bonuses in my frontline cities and cities which are frequently attacked (The Egyptians only attack Thaspus and Sparta, and ignore the other cities. I don’t know why they do this, but I don’t complain as this usually gives me time to get reinforcements). The temples with economic bonuses I build in my more peaceful cities. I think the special units temples can train like the Arcani, Decere or Corvus Quinquiremes are kind of useless. Same for the gladiators.
As for the chariots, I went to custom battles and fought against all types of chariots for all factions with spearmen from all factions. It went really well! I think Macedon’s Royal and Phalanx Pikemen and Seleucid Pikemen were the best against the chariots. The only thing is that the Romans can’t train spearmen until later in the game. So, I either have to capture a fully developed city (like Carthage, because I see that when I’m ready to invade the Carthaginians, they usually develop Carthage to its full extent, with Army Barracks), or I have to wait for the Marius Reforms for Auxillia troops, which take FOREVER. For the Julii, in the beginning I really depend on the Triarii and Archer units that I start out with.
Another thing in battles is that when I have special units (chariots or elephants) in my army, I can’t control the whole army, i.e., my army tends to break up and have mini-battles all over the entire battlefield, since I’m paying attention to my chariots and elephants. In this way, my infantry and archers take many losses. If I turn to pay attention to my infantry and missiles, the enemy DESTROY my elephants and chariots. It really gets annoying. I never got the hang of flank attacks using cavalry, so I sometimes lose battles which I could easily win with a heroic victory with a single flank attack by my available cavalry.

ReluctantSamurai

12-30-2010, 19:09

For the Romans pre-Marius, the answer to the chariot archer is...mercenary Cretan Archers! Long-range, and high missile attack rating. These guys will shred chariots as long as they are screened from melee attack.

After the Marius reforms, use Archer Auxilia...no need to mess around with spears. The Auxilia spear unit doesn't get any bonus fighting chariots, but should be used to screen your Roman cavalry out on the flanks. Roman line infantry set to fire-at-will make an excellent screen for your archers. Historically, the javelin is what made the chariot extinct on the battlefield, and in RTW, "spear-chuckers" do a pretty good job of it too. Ellies are not all that great at fighting chariots, either. The best thing they can do once you get the armored kind is shoot them from a distance.

I never train a single Triarii unit, when playing a Roman campaign. I find their shallow formation unable to withstand a cavalry charge, and so I get tired of arranging them in deeper ranks. If I need spears as a Roman faction, I hire merc hoplites...much better to get a unit designed to fight with spears in phalanx....

Any of the elite spear units will shred chariots as long as they don't get flanked. Scythed chariots attack in a wide double line and get much of their effectiveness at 'wrapping around' a unit that is less wide, thereby getting flank and rear attacks on individual soldiers in your unit (which negates any shield bonus). If you face them equally as wide, and with deep enough ranks, their initial attack will bog down and then they are dead meat.

If you are having trouble keeping track of units on the battlefield, try zooming out to get a wider view, and use the pause button (space-bar on default) often to assess the situation.

Morgoth101

12-30-2010, 19:47

I've tried the fire at will before against chariots, and it worked. But I don't train velites or light auxillia, I leave this for the spear throwing infantry. Scythed chariots used to give me a pain in battles against Seleucids- but I solved this by getting an archer unit to fire flaming arrows at them- it makes them run amok. Cretan archers rule! Them, along with mercenary elephants and hoplites are the only mercenaries I use. The zooming out thing helps- thanks. There was one battle against Macedon where I fought on a hill-not only was there a problem of getting slaughtered by the Macedonians who can kill me easily as they're facing downhill, but there was another problem-I was at the base of the hill,and they were on the top. The hill was so steep I couldn't see them! Luckily, the Brutii were there as reinforcements(I was the julii) and they started behind the Macedons, so they pretty much took care of them.

ReluctantSamurai

12-30-2010, 21:55

I make use of mercs quite a bit. As the Brutii, I will use hoplites, Cretan's, Samnites (excellent for screening your Equite from Light Lancers), and Bastarnae (these guys can traverse a battlefield from one side to another and be only in a 'winded' condition, where other infantry would be 'tired'...plus they seem to have a knack for killing enemy generals...must be the rhomphia decapitation thing, or something:laugh4: ).

If you're in the desert, don't overlook Arab cavalry. Besides having a cool look and wielding scimitars!, they get hefty bonuses for fighting in the desert and can chase down routing enemy cavalry or generals where your own cavalry cannot. They shouldn't be used in heavy melee as their defensive stats are a bit weak, but they're one of my favorites.

The Sarmation cavalry in Anatolia are useful before you get your own heavy cavalry, but they have a hefty pricetag. I use them when I play Armenia to help me break Pontus.

In any case, many areas have decent mercs that can sometimes be the difference between victory or defeat...use them as you can afford and you won't regret it.

Morgoth101

12-30-2010, 22:13

I only use mercs if I need numbers when I march or when I need a special unit (for example, archers or elephants). Otherwise, I don't usually use them as I can't retrain them to full size. Not only does that REALLY annoy me, but it gives a weak garrison as I tend to leave them in cities while my other men are sent capturing cities.

ReluctantSamurai

12-30-2010, 22:27

You can solve the retraining problem by having multiple units....use one for replacements. I do this for Arab Cavalry when I play the Seleucids. My typical field army will have at least 4 of them, and I keep one or two in reserve for replacements. Certain areas give Arab cav with one experience chevron, so these are the ones I use. To me it's worth it (and by the time the Scipii come calling on the Nile Delta, I have more money than I can spend!) to use them to chase down routers (it's rare for even a handful to get off the battlefield) and mopping up depleted cav units while my heavy cav can be elsewhere.....but that's just me:shrug:

I never leave mercs as garrison. It's not cost effective (peasants or town watch are better economic alternatives) plus I like to see my mercs gain chevrons. A Bastarnae infantry unit that reaches gold chevron status is quite terrifying to watch as they hack through enemy infantry...

Morgoth101

12-30-2010, 22:42

The replacement thing is a good idea, only its kinda hard to find those units for quite some time after you recruit them. My generals have travelled almost over the entire world for these mercs, and sometimes, in vain. When I'm marching into enemy territories, I follow a basic thing-keep a spy or two in front to keep an eye out for enemy troops, a general for recruiting mercs that would really help, and finally my main army of 2-3 full stacks( sometimes 4 if I can manage it).

Morgoth101

12-30-2010, 22:46

Another thing: I've been trying to get ZPG in cities like Carthage and the like, but it doesn't come. How do you really get it?

ReluctantSamurai

12-31-2010, 00:12

Another thing: I've been trying to get ZPG in cities like Carthage and the like, but it doesn't come. How do you really get it?

This question comes up frequently and there is no set way to do it. I will probably document the development of a single city, at some point, for a given faction to illustrate how it can be done. Choice of temple plays a very important role. To take your example of Carthage, in my last Scipii campaign, when I conquered it, I immediately tore down the existing temple and built the Saturn temple....the best law & order one available to the Scipii. One might be tempted to use the Vulcan temple because Carthage most often becomes a major training center, but with rampant population growth, law & order are far more important and that extra % conferred by Saturn over Vulcan can be the difference.

One thing peculiar to note is that, contrary to the usual practice of having a governor stacked full of good traits, there is one bad trait that actually helps in the case of Carthage....that of "Poor Farmer". When you get one, send him immediately to Carthage:laugh4: The worse the trait (ie. "Loathes Farmers") the better. It does wonders for slowing the grain-driven population boom.

I didn't get ZPG in Carthage in my last Scipii campaign until I hit about 32k in population. I didn't need a governor at that point, nor even a full 20-man garrison. Surprisingly, I could maintain population loyalty in the green, although this isn't necessary (even blue level of loyalty---80%---is enough), as long as you get the orange icon for growth, indicating that it has stopped.

I've had a little problem getting my screen capture to work properly as of late, so when I get it straitened out, I'll post a screen from the above Scipii campaign. And btw, I always move my capital to Syracuse, as the Scipii, and I never bother with taking all the Numidian settlements. After capturing Cirta and Lepcis, I don't bother with those poor Bedouin settlements waaay out in the desert...no profit in them:laugh4: Instead, I head straight for Greece!

Morgoth101

12-31-2010, 02:26

Thanks! I think I got ZPG only once, and it was in a city that I NEEDED population growth :-P. But I sorted that out. As for the bad traits, I haven't seen any of those traits for quite some time.
Oh, and I usually take only Tingi from the Numidians. Why? Because of the mercenary elephants!!!:-DD

ReluctantSamurai

12-31-2010, 15:05

Okay...here are some screenies from a few recent campaigns. Unfortunately, I must have deleted save-games from Germania, Scythia, and Britannia to illustrate how things can go for barbarian factions.
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af24/aussiebirdman/Macedon01.jpg?t=1293805812
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af24/aussiebirdman/Macedon02.jpg?t=1293805895

The first two are from a recent Macedonian campaign. Capital is where it was at the start...in Thessalonica. Sparta, Corinth, and Larissa are not at ZPG in this image because of recent training in those cities. The Macedonian Temple of Zeus is perhaps the best law & order temple in the game, and nearly all settlements in these two images have it.

The next is from a Greek Cities campaign:

http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af24/aussiebirdman/GreekCities01.jpg?t=1293806113

The next two are from a Carthage campaign with the capital in Carthage:

http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af24/aussiebirdman/Carthage01.jpg?t=1293806196
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af24/aussiebirdman/Carthage02.jpg?1293806277

The next two are from a Brutii campaign with the capital in Athens:

http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af24/aussiebirdman/Brutii01.jpg?1293806361
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af24/aussiebirdman/Brutii02.jpg?1293806411

I never use the Mercury temple as the Juno temple gives the same trade bonus at the pantheon level plus an exp bonus. Markets are good enough to increase trade before you get the pantheon built.

The next two are from an Armenian campaign with the capital in Tarsus:

http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af24/aussiebirdman/Armenia01.jpg?1293806487
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af24/aussiebirdman/Armenia02.jpg?1293806577

I haven't moved into the Nile Delta yet, but those three cities can also be brought under control, though they will need governors due to distance to capital and culture penalty.

This one is from a Scipii campaign with the capital in Syracuse:

http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af24/aussiebirdman/Scipii01.jpg?1293806636

Carthage is not at ZPG in the image because of recent training activity, but it returns to that state after replacing the population given to the new units.

Hope this is of some interest.

Oh, and btw, you don't need to capture a province to recruit mercs there. You can do it in any province as long as you have an open slot in your army and a general.

Morgoth101

12-31-2010, 15:49

Hey it really helped! Thanks! By the way, how do you get campaign pictures over here?

ReluctantSamurai

12-31-2010, 15:51

You need an account at Imageshack or Photobucket to upload images to here.

I hope the screenies I posted help put to rest the myth that maximum farm upgrades lead to squalor, unrest, and revolts. Most of the cities shown have max farm upgrades, with the exception of grain bonus areas like Carthage, Syracuse, etc., and most don't even require a governor.

Morgoth101

01-01-2011, 11:43

cool,thanks. thos pics really helped

ReluctantSamurai

01-02-2011, 17:03

While the screen shots illustrate that it can be done, they don't explain the how.

How it's done depends on a lot of things, but there are several ways to manipulate population growth and loyalty.

1. The use of taxes can raise or lower both growth and loyalty. A change of one level of taxes, changes growth by 0.5% and loyalty by 20%. So if you want to encourage growth, lower taxes. Conversely, to slow growth, raise taxes. You may have to add garrison or a high influence governor (influence contributes to population loyalty) to keep loyalty above rebellion if you raise taxes. The Romans get an additional benefit from coliseums to raise happiness, but it does cost 400 denarii to hold monthly games. There is an excellent discussion in the Ludus Magna concerning the effect of garrison.

2. Temple choice plays a part in ZPG, but using a law & order temple (for those factions that have them) isn't always necessary. In the above Brutii campaign, Thermon, Larissa, and Croton all have the Mars Temple, Corinth has the Artemis Temple, and Sparta has the original Nike Temple it had when I captured it. Distance to capital, and culture penalties play a large part in determining which temples to use. The greater the distance-to-capital & culture penalties, the more important it is to use a law & order temple.

3. A general rule-of-thumb that I use is: if the population is <1000, use low taxes, build a fertility temple (if available), and do not train units from that city until a population of 2k is reached. Between 2k and 6k, I like to see the population growing at a 2 or 3% rate. This enables you to have the time to build most of the structures you can build for that city before the next level of governing building is required. Between 6k and 12k, I like to see growth at 1.5-2% for the same reasons just mentioned. At around 20k, some cities will slow to 0.5% growth. If it's a city that I wish to see reach 24k, then I build the highest level of farming available, and add things like sewers and public baths (all of which encourage growth). If I still cannot reach 24k, but am only a few hundred short, I'll ship in peasants from another city and disband them to reach the 24k. Also, this is where a governor with growth traits, or growth ancillaries come in handy.

In any case, there is no 1...2...3... method to it. There are a lot a variables including faction, temple selection, distance-to-capital, culture penalty, garrison, and many others. But you have ways to manipulate things your way. Use every single one of them!

Morgoth101

01-03-2011, 11:13

Thanks a lot, ReluctantSamurai! These posts have helped! But one thing: the culture penalty can't be completely removed from the foreign cities you capture, right? I mean, only destroying the existing temple won't work, will it? There's bound to be SOME amount of culture penalty, however low it is. The same for squalor(I'm referring to squalor in big cities only). It's bound to come up sometime, even after building the sanitation buildings.

Oh yes, and another thing I didn't ask: what about ships? Most of them are kinda expensive, so how many ships and how many fleets would normally be enough for controlling the seas? Also, sometimes, in the Julii campaign, even tiremes or quinquiremes aren't enough for me to fight Carthage's ships. In another campaign, for Pontus, I could easily defeat Egyptian or Carthaginian or Seleuicid navies with a 3-4 biremes and a tireme. It was confusing. :hanged:

ReluctantSamurai

01-03-2011, 19:52

Culture penalty is mostly hard-coded. The greater the difference between your culture and the one you're fighting (Romans vs. an Eastern faction, as an example) the greater the penalty. A small amount of that can be alleviated by building temples from your culture, and new buildings and upgrades to existing ones help lessen the difference. But you cannot completely get rid of it. That's why I stress law & order temples when faced with a growing distance-to-capital, and inherent culture penalties. As long as you get to ZPG, you will not have any rebellion problems from even a vastly different culture.

The amount of fleets needed is quite variable. As a barbarian faction, I never build a single boat other than what may be required to shorten troop transport distances. Since fleet battles are auto-resolved, you obviously cannot fight them yourself. Sea battles are another area in RTW where the designers chose to ignore all basic rules-of-engagement that have been used since the Avalon Hill & SSI board games days. It's frustrating to attack a fleet loaded with army, only to have it retreat in the direction it was headed anyways, and right through all ZOC's (Zones of Control).

Winning control of the seas is another reason for building shipyards and dockyards as soon as you can afford them. If your ships are larger, you stand a better chance of winning. Early on, when my enemies fleet sizes are quite large, I attack with multiple fleets from different directions, trying to isolate one fleet at a time. This usually results in victory and a follow-up attack will further reduce the enemy fleet size. Try to surround an isolated enemy fleet. If you can catch one up against a land mass, it won't require as many ships as having to place a ship at all eight points of the compass in the open sea. If you win, the fleet has nowhere to retreat and is destroyed, no matter how many ships are left in it.

Also, if you get an armory in a port city, immediately upgrade the armor rating on all of your ships. This will give you an advantage in battles. The Scipii get two types of quinquireme not available to any other faction...the Corvus, and the coolest-looking, and deadliest quinquireme in the game...the Decere. Playing with those two dreadnoughts is the only reason I ever play the Scipii.

Getting the Corvus requires an awesome Temple of Neptune, and the Decere requires the Neptune temple at pantheon level. Both are worth the expense, as they capable of sinking other ships outright. With gold armor upgrades from the Vulcan temple, and a pile of experience chevrons, they are unstoppable. The Temple of Neptune has the added possibility of giving one of your admirals the Priest of Neptune ancillary which grants 2 command stars. I have, on occasion, gotten the Shipwright, Seamaster, and Priest of Neptune for a new admiral, giving him 5 command stars!

In any case, armor up, and gang up on enemy fleets. Good luck, admiral:laugh4:

TosaInu

01-04-2011, 13:36

I sometimes recruit peasants in fast growing cities and migrate them to small cities, there I disband them. This keeps fast growing cities smaller and accelerates development (1st population raise) in the small cities. The downside is that it costs some money.

Morgoth101

01-04-2011, 18:18

I usually do that peasant disband thing for cities which grow really slow(or, at least they grow very slow in my game) like Salona or Segestica. This also helps reduce population in overly populated cities like Carthage and Syracuse, from where I get the peasants. I board 20 units of peasants on a fleet, sail around to cities where I need more population, disembark the peasants, and disband them once they are in the city.

Once again, thanks TosaInu, ReluctantSamurai, and Lord Reid of Britannica! I didn't expect the thread to come this far! I think you guys have cleared all my questions in this awesome game!:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:~:wave::elephant:

Myth

01-06-2011, 12:06

Hey, I have a few problems, I wonder if anyone could tell me how to deal with them?
1. I can't fight against chariots, I tend to lose even if outnumber the enemy.
2. I never seem to get the flank attacks right.
3. When I'm attacking in a siege, I cant use the siege tower ballistas.
4. What's the best way to fight against phalanxes? I can handle phalanxes up to the greek hoplite level, but I can't fight anything higher than that.
5. (I'm still at the roman faction level) Whenever I start, there's one of the 2 starting settlements which have a low income, and they usually go into negatives, no matter what I do. This really is a big problem later on, as it sometimes almost bankrupts me. I even let the settlement be taken by rebels and recaptured it, but it didn't work. (Usually its Ariminum, Croton, or Capua).
I'd really appreciate if someone helps me out with this.Thanks!(by the way, i have version 1.5).
:help:

1: as a Roman faction you only need worry over the Egyptian chariots. The Seleucids get wiped out by their neighbors almost 100% of the time, and the Britons are too far away from the center of the world (Italian and Peloponnese Peninsulas). Fighting Egypt comes first to the Scipii, second to the Brutii and latest to the Julii.

While Chariots break your formation remember that units sent flying are not auto-killed. I advise you to start off with the Brutii and follow the numerous strats and guides for them. They are the easiest to play early on. See the Brutii section in these very forums, I've written a couple of walls of text there detailing my start and transition into mid and late game.

Once you debark on Alexandrian shores the Egyptians will have already conquered Mesopotamia. However, with your high experience and upgraded troops you will hold your own versus their chariots. Getting 3-4 stacks of Gladiators helps immensly versus chariots as well as getting some Auxilia. Remember never fight Egypt before the Marian reforms. Even if you lose a stack so long as your 10 star general is alive you can replenish quickly in your main troop production centers (Italy and Greece).

2. Practice practice practice. Always plan out your deployment and assign troops to be flankers. The best flankers for inexperienced players are cavalry, because they are fast and have a high charge bonus.

3. Just right click on the wall. There are several sections that can be attacked, apart from the towers. But you can't attack wherever you like.

4. Early on, hold the line with hastati and run some Veities behind their backs. This will slaughter them. Fighting them when they are defending a city requires superior numbers.

Later on just use your pila and charge your better trained and upgraded cohorts at them. Urban cohorts smash trough phalanxes 1 on 1 in a fair fight. Don't be afraid, once you charge and run past the spears, they switch to swords and then they die pitifully to roman infantry.

Or master the good ol' hammer and anvil with cavalry (see point 2)

5. Rome has it easy. Build roads, then temples, then farms, then ports. Take your armies and start on a conquering spree. If you are Brutii the moment you take Athens, Corinth and Sparta your money will be more than you can spend. Remember roads + ports everywhere! Don't over recruit units, as their upkeep makes you lose money. Only recruit as many as you need to win. With your back protected by your Roman allies, you will usually fight one or two factions at most. The Brutii war machine is perfectly capable of stomping trough the Greek Citis AND Macedon at the same time. Just remember to always be attacking and building infrastructure.

Morgoth101

01-06-2011, 15:49

Thanks! Now I use urban cohorts or praetorian cohorts against armoured hoplites-if I can train them! Some games I don't bother with units that take two turns to train.

ReluctantSamurai

01-06-2011, 16:30

I'd have to disagree with you, Myth, about not tangling with the Eggies until after Uncle Marius shows up. Principes are nearly as rugged as Cohort I's, and you can recruit "Creeshan's" to take out the Chariot Archers. In the Brutii campaign I posted screens for above, the only addition to my pre-Marian raised armies in the Middle East was Archer Auxilia and Roman Cavalry. My line infantry were still Principes. I had no problems whatsoever with full Eggie stacks (on h/h) with 6-8 chariots in many of them. Having Cretan's and Equites would have made little difference in the outcomes...

Also, I assume you were referring to the use of glads and auxilia against the scythed chariots?!? The Chariot Archers will skirmish infantry to death because the infantry units are too slow to catch them. In any case, it's been my experience that Egypt rarely builds the scythed variety....only piles and piles of the archer kind:shrug:

There is a very good discussion in the Ludus about the effects of roads. It's not that I disagree with building them ASAP (which should be done), but that until you get all the roads in a certain vicinity upgraded to the same level, you get no increased trade movement...only better movement for your troops.

@ !@#$%^&*

Urbans and Praetorian's are over-rated, IMHO, and not historically correct for the time period of RTW. The Lorica Segmentata did not appear until around 100AD (some accounts place it's use a bit earlier), and this was the standard armor for Cohort II's, Praetorian, etc.

My own personal preference is to not use them, and I've gone as far as modding them, as well as Cohort II's out of the game, for all Roman factions. Makes the game more balanced, IMHO. The Roman factions already get a ton of perks and advantages over other factions, so removing these units makes things a bit more interesting.

Also, the AI uses Armored hoplites very poorly (as it does for many things) because it brings them into phalanx formation far sooner than it should. They move considerably slower in phalanx, and should become your primary archer target once enemy archers are disposed of. Make them turn sideways by positioning your infantry just off either flank. Charge them with a third unit in the flank, or from the rear with cav.....finis.

Morgoth101

01-06-2011, 19:00

nice advice....my archers i usually send to kill enemy archers(which i find surprisingly low in number in my campaigns against the greeks-well i'm not complaining!:laugh4:) and then hoplites(if any). But when i'm facing chariosts, i send my fire arrows at them first. I make sure i load up on velites and archers before i go to war against Britain and Asia Minor.

Oh, and i've noticed something else- in my last few games, Armenia is turning VERY aggresive. Those guys wiped out Parthia in the beginning of the game, brought down Pontus and the Seleuicids, and now they were fighting(and winning) against the greeks AND the egyptians-those greeks had armoured hoplites and the egyptians were getting to the Pharaoh's Gaurd level! I was the Scipii- I wasn't too worried as I could train triarii by then, and most of my troops to the eastern border of my empire had gold chevrons. But it was still wierd....:shrug:

ReluctantSamurai

01-06-2011, 19:20

Oh, and i've noticed something else- in my last few games, Armenia is turning VERY aggresive.

Ahhh...Armenia. My favorite faction! If an AI-led Armenia can be successful at taking either Sinope from Pontus, or Hatra from Seleucia early in the game, they can quickly become a force to deal with. If they get to producing some of the more advanced troops in their roster (heavy spearmen, the cats, and Armenian legionaries) they autocalc well against Egyptian chariots.

Use of fire arrows is nice and has a demoralizing effect on whomever is the target, but keep in mind they are less accurate than normal arrow use. When it comes to dealing with chariot archers, my preference is to put them away as quickly as possible so I use normal arrows only.

But it is cool to see them burn:laugh4:

Morgoth101

01-07-2011, 16:16

It IS cool to them burn! The thing I love about fighting carthage is when I have onagers and they have elephants. I LOVE to see those pachyderms BURN!!!!! I also like seeing Scythed Chariots run amok.

I like those eastern factions, but the infantry you start with isn't that good... my compensation is that they have epic stone walls, onagers and(in a few cases) elephants.

ReluctantSamurai

01-07-2011, 21:33

Only Parthia is limited to Hillmen and Eastern Infantry. Armenia get Heavy Spears, and a version of Legionaires; Pontus gets Phalanx Pikes.

Morgoth101

01-09-2011, 05:54

Oh, yeah. I forgot Armenian Legionaries. Its fun fighting with them against Roman Legionaries. Fighting Romans with their own weapons...:laugh4::laugh4:

ReluctantSamurai

01-09-2011, 16:41

A pretty thorough description of the kinds of units used by the Armenians can be found here:

http://www.ancient-battles.com/catw/armenia.htm

Ibn-Khaldun

01-09-2011, 19:28

It's fun fighting against the Romans with Legionaries when the Romans still use pre-Marian troops. I managed to do that as Seleucids. However, they were not exactly the cheapest units and transporting them from one side of my empire to another wasn't exactly cost effective.

Myth

01-10-2011, 16:39

I play VH/VH only. And the Scythed chariots gave me more trouble. Praetorian Cav cuts the archers to shreds. Then again, I don't bother with Egypt until I hit the higher levels of development for my cities.

Urbans are by no means overrated, they are very good and you admitted yourself you've modded them out to make the game fair. Point is, if you want to smash into a phalanx and slaughter it, there's no better unit to do it with than fully upgraded Urban Cohorts. Except maybe fully upgraded Berzerkers.

ytghazal

01-10-2011, 18:42

Hello a little late but Ive played as the the Julii and brutii family(brutii on medium where i was winning too easily so i sort of stopped) and Julii on VH which recently has put me on the defensive and had to take a break to collect my wits) Now while playing as the julii i had the random luck to have the last surviving Carthage family member come near one of my cities just as the Scipii destroyed their empire. i engaged them (small force) and killed their family member. Carthage got destroyed so i play them now. One thing annoys me i just started on hard with them (still learning after being used to romans) and their forces are epicly weak. 3 units of town militia and javalin throwers against one battalion of hastati lose. even though i harass with javalins. surround on all sides and attack. I even had one battallion of peaseants to act as a buffer.

ReluctantSamurai

01-10-2011, 19:55

Urbans are by no means overrated, they are very good and you admitted yourself you've modded them out to make the game fair.

Overrated was perhaps a poor choice of words. What I meant is that Cohort I's and II's are more than adequate to get the job done. And making the game more fair was not for my benefit, but for the other AI-led factions.

3 units of town militia and javalin throwers against one battalion of hastati lose. even though i harass with javalins.

Town militia have poor morale and skirmishers do very little damage because of the high defensive stats of even pre-Marian Roman infantry. I forgot what the unit bonuses for the AI are at the "hard" setting, but this only serves to make an iffy situation even worse.

I'm assuming the battle you are referring to is the defense of Caralis? If so, your best bet is to not let the Julii anywhere close by chasing off, or sinking the invasion fleet. After you take control of Sicily (which you must do quickly before the Romans have time to ship units there), use your navy to the fullest extent until you get some of your more advanced barracks constructed. Once you get to the level of having Ellies and Long Shield cavalry, your job gets a bit easier.

The roster for Carthage isn't really all that bad once you get to Peoni and Sacred Band for your phalanx, Armored Elephants for 'line-busters', and Sacred Band cavalry. But the key early is the use of mercs on Sicily to oust both the Greeks and the Romans, and your navy.

Sabazios

01-11-2011, 13:31

You already got some good advice, but heres my 2 cents. :)

Hey, I have a few problems, I wonder if anyone could tell me how to deal with them?
1. I can't fight against chariots, I tend to lose even if outnumber the enemy.

Use skirmisher troops like Velites for this, they get a attack bonus against chariots

2. I never seem to get the flank attacks right.

Well practice makes perfect. ;)

3. When I'm attacking in a siege, I cant use the siege tower ballistas.
You have to put the 'fire at will' button on to get them shooting!

4. What's the best way to fight against phalanxes? I can handle phalanxes up to the greek hoplite level, but I can't fight anything higher than that.
Pin and flank. When facing an army with phalanxes, I always try to destroy all other troops so after that, i can use my spare units to attack hem in the back.

5. (I'm still at the roman faction level) Whenever I start, there's one of the 2 starting settlements which have a low income, and they usually go into negatives, no matter what I do. This really is a big problem later on, as it sometimes almost bankrupts me. I even let the settlement be taken by rebels and recaptured it, but it didn't work. (Usually its Ariminum, Croton, or Capua).
Dont let those numbers fool you! Some cities may apear loosing a lot of money, but i fact they are your main income source. The cost of your army is dvided over the cities based on their population. So when Capua is your biggest city, most of te upkeep of your armies are paid by this city. (you can see it in the setlement details scroll) When you exterminate this city, it just means that your army upkeep will be paid by other cities. So you'll actually makes less money then before!