View Full Version : Fan-based map progression thread
stratigos vasilios
01-02-2011, 15:53
I think it would be a fun idea if we tracked the campaign map from the official previews of the EB team :idea2:
Here is what has been filled so far.
https://img39.imageshack.us/img39/881/fullmap01.jpg
Gromit at the twc posted a map with orange shaded areas that potentially could have the last few unrevealed factions which could ignite some good discussions!
https://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9967/eb220faction20possibili.jpg
Also I stress this is a fan-based creation and not an official reveal of the campaign map.
I will try to update this with every official EB preview that has a map. Also if I have forgotten any factions please let me know! The colours chosen for factions are based solely on what is easy to see/what colours I have in Microsoft Paint.
EDIT: Adjusted map 10/04/2012
nice, tho afaik pergamon and romani are pretty obvious ;)
and you forgot the pritanoi who also are not as obvious as the above.
Kuningaz
01-02-2011, 18:41
yup, the Pritanoi are missing, plus the Boii's starting regions probably won't be the ones shown in the preview (I think it was said, that they'd be revised again)
very nice idea though, hopefully there'll be more to fill out soon ;)
QuintusSertorius
01-02-2011, 19:14
Indeed, Pergamon is obvious, it'll be the province of Mysia, and that's it.
Bosporan Kingdom will be either Pantikapaion alone, or Pantikapaion and Chersonesos.
stratigos vasilios
01-03-2011, 01:36
Thanks guys, I added in Pritanoi to the OP and Ludens helped me with my image problems! I would like to put all the factions in with their starting points (i.e. guess where they are) but I'll let the team reveal that, it'll look better than me cheaply drawing it in :-P
The Boii territory is indeed going to be reworked, we also actually told you all the starting province of the Pritanoi, its the landlocked province in Southern England (Penncrugon).
The Bosporan Kingdom starts with Patikapaion.
Most of the other factions have the same borders as before, although some are quite different.
QuintusSertorius
01-03-2011, 17:44
You can add Pergamon (in fact it says in the Pergamon Stele (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?103202-Stele-6-Pergamon) that they'll just start with Mysia) and the Bosporan Kingdom, since they're both looking like single-province starts.
stratigos vasilios
01-04-2011, 03:06
Well if no one objects to me drawing it in paint, I shall. Although I was trying to avoid drawing them in but rather fill in the map from EB team previews. Otherwise you could argue all factions from EBI should be drawn in the map now...
Ignopotens
01-04-2011, 06:36
I'd say only add the factions that we can verify with starting territories we can verify from the previews. Currently un-previewed factions from EB1 should be left off because we already know that some of the territories will be reworked, possibly changing shape etc.
I was just thinking of posting a similar thread the other day in work. Bravo!
stratigos vasilios
01-05-2011, 08:47
Thanks man. I edited the first post to put in the new map, it'll be good to slowly fill out the map as we go along.
Central and eastern Europe are looking a lot more engaging. Greece and Asia minor is going to be even more of a bloodbath than it is now.
stratigos vasilios
01-06-2011, 06:39
What city/cities were they to start with?
I think that is the new province of Tiskat betwen Numidia & Byzacena. The capital of this new province is Tocai (Dougga)
Where are the days of threads like the art of keeping a secret? Ah them good old days...
Tellos Athenaios
01-08-2011, 21:02
Where are the days of threads like the art of keeping a secret? Ah them good old days...
It was a Lost Art back then already, what did you expect? ~;)
fightermedic
01-08-2011, 22:41
i think you have the colors wrong in your map
the faction symbols ought to represent the colors the faction does have so looking at that symbols the bosporan kindom will be red and pergamon blue
moonburn
01-10-2011, 05:53
the boii and luigiones seem too big imho they´ll probably just start with 1 region (well maybe not the boii they where a powerfull confederation able to sack delphos but then again we don´t know much about their political unity )
also the arverni and eduii are probably in the same place (altough there´s that endless debate about how strong was the alliance beteween the eduii and that tribe of northern italy and if they should be included)
the lusitani and sabah and sweboz will not change so you can add that in
you might aswell also add in the eremus regions (including the one´s in pict territory)
ptolomaioi and seleukids and pontus and hai and saka and parthians and baktrians will probably not be changed so you can also include them already
and ofc \0 the arevaci don´t forget the arevaci
Ooh how I long for the day when Normandy and Flanders are filled with a faction colour.
Diviciacus rides again!
the boii and luigiones seem too big imho they´ll probably just start with 1 region (well maybe not the boii they where a powerfull confederation able to sack delphos but then again we don´t know much about their political unity )
also the arverni and eduii are probably in the same place (altough there´s that endless debate about how strong was the alliance beteween the eduii and that tribe of northern italy and if they should be included)
the lusitani and sabah and sweboz will not change so you can add that in
you might aswell also add in the eremus regions (including the one´s in pict territory)
ptolomaioi and seleukids and pontus and hai and saka and parthians and baktrians will probably not be changed so you can also include them already
What makes you think we don't change any of those starting positions, province bounderies etc,...? Everything got redone from scratch and researched again, often by other people. So think they'd all remain the same is rather silly. Most factions will have rather big changes comming.
fightermedic
01-11-2011, 17:15
Most factions will have rather big changes comming.
you just won't stop teasing us eh?
cmon mr. moros leak us hungry folks some information ;)
QuintusSertorius
01-11-2011, 17:54
Where are the days of threads like the art of keeping a secret? Ah them good old days...
You may jest, but there is no value in secrecy over a period this long. All that happens is people's enthusaism dissipates and they find other things to occupy them.
you just won't stop teasing us eh?
cmon mr. moros leak us hungry folks some information ;)
As I'm only working on two factions I can't really list them. But assuming provinces, settlements, starting positions,... is madness. There's new material since research days of EB I, new members,... logically a lot has changed. Compare some of the previous previews with those from EB I. The pritanoi have probably changed more than most factions, but most have a lot of similar changes as well.
For example in Arabia, I think almost all settlements and provinces have new names. Some are changed for other settlements, almost all borders have changed as well. Most parts of the map had been changed quite a bit with extra provinces here, fewer there, settlements that got swapped or relocated,... Now Arabia and Brittain are more extreme cases, true.
@Quitus:
I'm not sure if you know what I'm referring to. Also a lot is secret because it's not ready, fully debated or researched yet. How can I tell you about for example the new sabaean ethnicities or how their buildings will be if we haven't worked them out yet. We try our best to make previews once in a while. Sure you could say we could at least say something like whihc factions are in. But when we do reveal a faction we want them presented in good way, one that is backed up by sources and research. We've got some fans who ask difficult questions sometimes and who don't want us to present them historically correct as well.
moonburn
01-12-2011, 01:21
i was just rambling moros :\
QuintusSertorius
01-12-2011, 13:00
I'm not sure if you know what I'm referring to. Also a lot is secret because it's not ready, fully debated or researched yet. How can I tell you about for example the new sabaean ethnicities or how their buildings will be if we haven't worked them out yet. We try our best to make previews once in a while. Sure you could say we could at least say something like whihc factions are in. But when we do reveal a faction we want them presented in good way, one that is backed up by sources and research. We've got some fans who ask difficult questions sometimes and who don't want us to present them historically correct as well.
I'm well aware of the team's standards of historicity, but there's a tension at work there. Confirming, for example, that there is a Numidian faction doesn't actually require the production of a completed, fully-researched preview. That's a lot of additional work that could be happening after it's merely said "yes, Numidia is one of the new factions". Assuming of course the research has reached a stage where the team are happy that it will indeed be included as a faction.
All I'm saying is that in the gap between confirmation and completion of a faction, little is lost by simply saying "look out for this faction, soon to appear in preview". What's gained is a moderation of interest at a certain level and management of expectations, rather than peaks and troughs of attention. With a timeframe as long as this, each of those troughs may result in numbers of people simply losing interest and not returning.
After all there's a long history of mods that never see light of day, with all the anticipation and excitement coming to nothing. I guess I should add as a pinch of salt, I'm someone who considers "surprise" to be worthless, so that colours my perspective.
After all there's a long history of mods that never see light of day, with all the anticipation and excitement coming to nothing. I guess I should add as a pinch of salt, I'm someone who considers "surprise" to be worthless, so that colours my perspective.
Others don't, and neither do we. If you aren't particularly interested in following EB, then you don't need to. Just keep an eye on the old Twitter, and when there is a release you will hear about it. We enjoy surprising our fans with previews of new content, and we enjoy watching them guess (and so much of the content of these forums is speculative conversations). This is how we've always run things, and there is no reason to change.
Foot
QuintusSertorius
01-13-2011, 00:29
Others don't, and neither do we. If you aren't particularly interested in following EB, then you don't need to. Just keep an eye on the old Twitter, and when there is a release you will hear about it. We enjoy surprising our fans with previews of new content, and we enjoy watching them guess (and so much of the content of these forums is speculative conversations). This is how we've always run things, and there is no reason to change.
Foot
That's about as categoric a refutation of my position as I could ask for! :)
Fair enough, it's your team and you know what motivates them best.
moonburn
01-13-2011, 03:50
quintus sertorious for someone with a roman name you haven´t read the classics all that well i assume or else you would have read seneca and understand that presenting a faction and then due to the lack of historicity having it removed would break people´s expectations and as seneca states "rage comes from broken expectations" so the last thing the team should do should be to break people´s expectations
i mean seriously when the game finally comes out most people will eventually return and even those that don´t imediatly will end up showing up even if it´s a year or 2 after the game was released, it´s not like the eb team gains cash from adds from people entering the site so they don´t really need the extra attention (or distraction) if they made cash then we could expect stuff like what you said wich is marketing and masses management and the team would make like 1 preview per week and after 2 or 3 years "sorry the fallowing factions won´t appear on the game"
QuintusSertorius
01-13-2011, 12:30
quintus sertorious for someone with a roman name you haven´t read the classics all that well i assume or else you would have read seneca and understand that presenting a faction and then due to the lack of historicity having it removed would break people´s expectations and as seneca states "rage comes from broken expectations" so the last thing the team should do should be to break people´s expectations
Dude, punctuation is your friend. :laugh4:
As I said quite clearly above, what I was talking about was confirming a faction once it had been researched enough to be agreed as a faction. Not simply revealing a name then later having to withdraw it because later research showed it unworthy. It takes a lot less effort to say "yes, faction X is now in" than to prepare a preview (which can happen later).
i mean seriously when the game finally comes out most people will eventually return and even those that don´t imediatly will end up showing up even if it´s a year or 2 after the game was released, it´s not like the eb team gains cash from adds from people entering the site so they don´t really need the extra attention (or distraction) if they made cash then we could expect stuff like what you said wich is marketing and masses management and the team would make like 1 preview per week and after 2 or 3 years "sorry the fallowing factions won´t appear on the game"
As before, someone saying "yes, faction X is in, expect a preview in a few weeks/months" is hardly a great amount of effort or distraction. Hardly the scenario you suggest if the announcement only comes once its been confirmed.
In any case it's moot, the team like their approach to expectation management.
M to the A
01-13-2011, 13:31
There's nothing more fun than to randomly log in and find out that the Belgae have been included as a faction in some way through a huge new preview ^^
I'm afraid you mistaken, we haven't announced any new Belgae faction.
I'm afraid you mistaken, we haven't announced any new Belgae faction.
Go on, I dare ya!
M to the A
01-14-2011, 07:36
I'm afraid you mistaken, we haven't announced any new Belgae faction yet.
Fixed that for ya. :smug2:
I'm more likely to agree with Quintus. but Foot made the teams position quite clear.
Suprise is fun but its too distantly spaced. Logging in is hard work in the intervening months.
stratigos vasilios
01-22-2011, 15:39
i think you have the colors wrong in your map
the faction symbols ought to represent the colors the faction does have so looking at that symbols the bosporan kindom will be red and pergamon blue
You are definately correct here but I just chose what would be bright and easy to see and separate. No real logic behind anything, if it's really annoying everyone I will change it. I have to add in Mamla'ha biMassylim too.
Tellos Athenaios
01-22-2011, 15:56
Fixed that for ya. :smug2:
You're right of course. It's just that we're having a little problem in reconstructing a feasible government system there... :juggle:
After the smugness, I could not resist. :embarassed:
Just thinking that now the gallic factions have been confirmed through the generals preview maybe they should go on as well. I know it may not be safe to assume they will have the same territory though after what happened to the dear departed Casse.
Just thinking that now the gallic factions have been confirmed through the generals preview maybe they should go on as well.
I wouldn't for three reasons; firstly a Belgic faction may or may not be in the pipeline, if one is announced it may have caused the Aedui/Arverni borders to have been re-drawn. Second, as we have seen with Britain and Ireland and as has been hinted at, many provinces on the EBII map will be different from those in EB thus, although i think it is unlikely, the map of Gaul we are familiar with in EB may be very different in EBII. Finally and most likely I can forsee the Aedui being relieved of control of Insubramrog, most likely with the area being awarded to the Boii or to the Eleutheroi for the sake of historical accuracy (although the possiblity remains that they will still be present in Cisalpine Gaul to reprsent allegiances amongst the Cisalpine tribes to the Aedui).
The Gallic factions do not have the same territory as they did in EB.
Not sure that having the boii on the map as silver and the poles (or whatever) as white looks very clear. I almost didn't see them at first. Would the OP consider a change in the colour scheme?
stratigos vasilios
01-23-2011, 15:07
Change to colour scheme? No. Heck no. Never in a million years... ;-)
They are the colours the EB team had in their official previews so I just left them as they were, but I can see how it isn't too clear. I'll just put in a brighter colour, at this stage I wasn't planning on choosing the correct faction campaign map colours (I'll leave that for the EB team) but colours that are bright and easy to see. Any requests? Also if anyone feels like they are able to do a much better map please do so, I will surrender entirely and I'm sure Ludens will help me get the new map into the OP.
Something a little less white. The map has the Carthies, boii and poles as whitish colours. AS will be silver. At the very least making either the boii or poles a different shade of something would be nice. My eyes don't work so good (bad english/grammar is deliberate) with all these similar colours next to each other. Especially on the map.
On second thoughts, is it possible to fade slightly the background map. That would make the edges of the factions stand out slightly more. I think that would fix everything.
The Lugiones faction colour is a dark blue, you can see it on the faction symbol.
Also the numidians are still missing..
Also the numidians are still missing..
We don't know their borders though.
stratigos vasilios
01-24-2011, 13:32
Edited the OP (finally!) and changed some faction colours.
Pretty, although the numidians are hard to see there. Have you tried desaturating the background a bit so that the faction colours stand out more?
OvidiusNasso
01-26-2011, 23:40
Because this thread is off topic already could I ask a question?
If that is a yes here it is.
Does the team like amaturish suggestions from fans, and do good suggestions help to join the team?
How is this thread off topic? I think its 100% on topic.
Does the team like amaturish suggestions from fans, and do good suggestions help to join the team?
I can't speak for the team, but not every EB member is a professional historian, so being an amateur is not a problem. That said: there's no shortage of ideas, and there is a shortage of people that know how to implement them. You stand a better chance of you teach yourself a modding skill they need. I am not sure if this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?93339-The-EB-II-Help-Required-Thread) is still up-to-date, but they were looking for someone who knows how the TW trait engine works.
Atraphoenix
02-05-2011, 20:13
I still wonder how EB team reflect Parthian Reformation, I hope it will not be so complicated as in EB1.
Any other colour blind people worried they won't be able to see their massive empires (or struggling kingdoms in my case)?
Populus Romanus
02-06-2011, 22:52
The EBII team said on TWC that the Gallic factions will be reduced to their capitol regions, so we can draw those in.
OvidiusNasso
02-08-2011, 04:08
as long as there are questions may I ask one?
Will the Barcids be more powerful in EB 2? It was always annoying to fight Carthage, they always ignore Sicily and Spain and always invest in the out of the way Saharan provinces.
vollorix
02-08-2011, 07:56
The lack of a Numidian faction, and the presence of several rebell villages in the desert was reason enough for Carthage to go after those settlements, since the AI is crazy about grabing every rebell town they can get their hands on. Now, with the Numidians in, it will depend on diplomatic settings for both, Carthies and Numidians, where the Carthaginians would pay their attention more - fighting the former/competing with them for Eleutheroi towns, or expanding right away in Sicily and/or Spain. I´ve used to notice, in several campaigns - mostly i was playing an eastern faction, too far away from the "Punic front", that Carthaginians often try to attack Messana, and even Syracuse, but get utterly defeated, especially against Syracuse, since the garrison, and the strategos, there are really tough to break. And since the Romans love it to attack Corsica and Sardinia the Carthies get a bit distracted by the multiple fronts, i guess. And then there is a dumb punic habit to raid Italian coast, sending a 3 unit party to pillage Roma and Capua, or ignoring the, too strong, rebells on Sicily, to walk through south Italy with their Faction Heir, scouting Region etc.
stratigos vasilios
04-22-2011, 04:07
*waves necromancy fingers*
Changed some facton colours.
The EBII team said on TWC that the Gallic factions will be reduced to their capitol regions, so we can draw those in.
Added in the Gallic factions.
Populus Romanus
04-22-2011, 06:37
The Numidia province has been split in two, the Massylians only hold the Eastern half.
Power2the1
05-18-2011, 20:07
I'll throw out a bone: The Aeduoi and Aruernoi provinces no longer touch.
Interesting. I'm curious to know why.
Power2the1
05-19-2011, 21:00
Basically it was to, hopefully, allow them some breathing room to expand a bit before having to share borders. Don't get me wrong though - I know that they'll eventually touch and start fighting and probably have some stalemate for a long time as in EB1. However beginning the game without being next to each other is overall more desirable than keeping the EB1 borders.
So Gaulish players should rejoice that they have some better options when they start the game this time than immediate war with the other Gauls. :2thumbsup:
Thank you for the tidbits! :2thumbsup: We love to get ahold of any information we can. I'm glad to know they'll be separated. I assume then, that they will not begin the game at war with each other, unlike in EB1 (if I remember correctly)?
moonburn
05-20-2011, 03:35
herm only way that bibactre and gergovia regions will be separated is if you place a few stone forts around or provinces are rearranged i think (or is there viennos and avaricus in beteween ?? )
Power2the1
05-20-2011, 06:27
The plan is for the Gauls to begin the game at peace with each other, unlike EB1 where their territories touched and were at war. Yes, the provinces that hold Auarikon and Uiennos touch and those regions separate the Gauls.
Phalanx300
05-20-2011, 11:40
So what is the historical reason behind this? Its interesting at least.
(Am guessing its also to balance Belgae faction, who knows)
My guess neither Aeduoi nor Auernoi were such powerful figures @ the start date, and slightly bigger Auarikon territory is a nice touch to recall the Bituriges' past...
moonburn
05-20-2011, 16:00
so we will have a biturige faction ? and the nervii (when i writte an aar i gotta put the joke those belgae are getting on my nerves right before i conquer brastoporios and raze it to the ground)
Didn't mean that, just that as the Bituriges were declining, in 272 most likely their territories weren't reduced yet by new rising powers...
As for Belgae, any would do it for me lol
Power2the1
05-20-2011, 18:25
Well, there's not a verified historical reason to have, or not to have, the Aeduoi and Aruernoi territories the game touch other than to help the two factions out in game. Because we do not know they remain close in pretty close proximity, but without shared borders.
I would imagine a Belgic faction would be a confederacy of sorts. To my mind there are three strong candidates for a Belgic faction; 1. The Suessiones who Caesar informs us controlled areas of Gaul and Britain in years preceding the Gallic wars. 2. The Bellovaci who by the 1st Century BC were the most powerful of the Belgae (my money is on them). 3. The Atrebates as they are the only Belgic tribe we know for certain migrated to Britain.
I was even thinking that a Volcae, Danubian group could be a good canditate, given that the returning group from the Balkan expedition origin is accepted for the Belgae...
stratigos vasilios
06-06-2011, 08:21
Are the Sweboz just starting off with one province? Did they start off with one in EB I? I can't remember.
Yes the Sweboz only get one province, if fact compared to EB they only get half a province.
stratigos vasilios
06-08-2011, 06:51
Yes the Sweboz only get one province, if fact compared to EB they only get half a province.
:inquisitive: which half?
Northern most likely...
In EB they reached the Boii, quite stretched...
so the Marcomanni get their own province?
hey hat means that you can actually capture a settlement to be inline with sweboz historial expansion XD
I'm guessing they don't start on that little island they had in EB1.
Nor they started with in EB1 XD
so the Marcomanni get their own province?
Well sir I wish you the best of luck in getting the Marcomanni confirmed. Who knows, in the future we can compare screenshots. You and your Marcommanic empire and me and my Belgic.
Nah I'm not with the marcomanni(I'mno bavarian afterall) I just thought that, as EB1 swebolandam represent the extent of the sweoboz confedaracy which consisted primarily of Semnones and marcomanni and the marcomanni live southof the semnones, it is likely that the new province is the land of the marcomanni. I never thought that they'd be a faction. In fact by now I'm quite sure there won't be another germanic faction(due to a twitter update) eventho the chatti had a slight chance imo(a bit smaller than that of a belgian tribe yet certainly not both).
So in short: I'm just pointing out that the province thus created would be the land of the marcomanni not that they'd be a faction of their own(theydon't evenhave a regional unit :D )
I think the decision was made, because there weren't any Sweboz that far south at the start date...
I'm quite sure there won't be another germanic faction(due to a twitter update) eventho the chatti had a slight chance imo(a bit smaller than that of a belgian tribe yet certainly not both).
I had come to the same conclusion. I recall one of the team members saying that information for the Sweboz in 272BC was limited let alone another Germannic faction. I live in eternal hope that a Belgic faction will be confirmed.
stratigos vasilios
06-27-2011, 06:41
I'll throw out a bone: The Aeduoi and Aruernoi provinces no longer touch.
No longer touching.
Yes the Sweboz only get one province, if fact compared to EB they only get half a province.
:inquisitive: which half?
Northern most likely...
In EB they reached the Boii, quite stretched...
Added in Sweboz.
If the team want to drop any other hints please feel free to do so...
Populus Romanus
06-27-2011, 07:19
The Massylians only start with half of the EBI province of Numidia -- I believe the Eastern half.
moonburn
06-27-2011, 15:18
well we can´t exclude that perhaps permanent stone forts might be used to partly break a region into smaller regions so for instance sweboland might not really be cut in half as much as you might only start with part of a province and must then conquer the permanent stone forts to get the entire province under your rule wich ofc can be extremly usefull when planing your expansion to keep buffer states
No, the Sweboz home province is basically the northern half of their old starting province in EB. We haven't done anything so far with PSF's although we do plan to use them (might not be first release).
btw Another interesting thing would be a map that highlights the spots of the map that could(gameplaywise) have an other faction and were not explicitly ruled out(like albion).
what do you think people?
Sure, but what do you mean by Albion? It's already been definitively stated that there will not be another faction on the British Isles.
stratigos vasilios
06-28-2011, 08:41
btw Another interesting thing would be a map that highlights the spots of the map that could(gameplaywise) have an other faction and were not explicitly ruled out(like albion).
what do you think people?
That's an interesting idea, should I try and whip up something quickly or do you want to make something? Mine will be another MS Paint job.
Stratigos vasilios, the eastern indian parts of that map are looking too empty. Time for a mauyaran satraphy to be put in there =)
stratigos vasilios
07-20-2011, 06:42
Adjusted map. Added factions from EB1, although faction borders will be different to EB1... the map just looks prettier now ;-)
After admiring that map, does anyone else think that the Veneti of Gaul (located in modern day Brittany) would be a good addition? I'm speaking strictly from a gameplay perspective, since I know that historically they didn't do much more than frustrate Caesar for a short time.
If it was all up to gameplay, then Meroe and Nabatu will have to get in at any cost...
Now after Taksashila, I'll say, with semitic culture and eastern one (being Meroe an Egyptian dynasty), why not?
Bumpity bump bump.
I like this map very much and would like to keep it near the top for new people who might be browsing the forum to have a quick look. Its very useful to, at a glance, see the rough locations of the major factions; especially for those of us who are not history or geography orientated. Plus, I just like maps.
stratigos vasilios
08-02-2011, 11:07
:bow:
I'll do my best to keep it updated and on the main page!
Was wondering, are you able to put in the back-glow that the EB1 factions have for the other, newer factions? It does make it look very pretty.
stratigos vasilios
08-06-2011, 04:28
I'll give it a go. I only use MS paint as I am not an artist so hopefully it'll look nice, I'll keep you updated.
what about this? (https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/405/eb2mapcopy.jpg/)
SneakyNinja
08-06-2011, 20:31
what about this? (https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/405/eb2mapcopy.jpg/)
It's alright but it's missing the Bosphorians (is that the right word) and the british tribe are in the wrong area
oh, damn their layer got obscured somehow :O I'm sure I had them in the first version.
for the brit's: I was just too lazy to draw all the provinces of southern britain myself considering they remain the only faction there it did not really seem worthwile, especially as the only thing I know about south british provinces in EB2 is that The pritanoi province is landlocked.
The Pritanoi preview actually shows the province borders pretty well, but I don't blame you for not bothering. We know they're the only faction in Britain, so that's all that really matters.
Poor Pritanoi, frowned for their cousins being passive in EB :D
Really hope, and believe, they'll meddle with the continent in EBII...
ziegenpeter
08-11-2011, 13:39
Appreciate your work!
Poor Pritanoi, frowned for their cousins being passive in EB :D
Really hope, and believe, they'll meddle with the continent in EBII...
I believe they will. In M2TW naval invasions are very common.
stratigos vasilios
08-11-2011, 14:55
I believe they will. In M2TW naval invasions are very common.
Gustave your an artist, maybe you can redo our fan map...or post the EBII map your working on?...
We certainly won't be posting our maps on public forums, it would give too much away.
I can surely forget my ethics for a good amount of money :beam:
Every time I look at that map, I get really excited.
stratigos vasilios
09-20-2011, 10:56
Was wondering, are you able to put in the back-glow that the EB1 factions have for the other, newer factions? It does make it look very pretty.
I tried but my art skills are rubbish. If anyone is interested in improving the first page map PM me and I'll send you the original and other progress maps, then maybe we can throw it on the first page.
Power2the1
09-23-2011, 05:32
Hey guys, since the Bouiroi/Boii have been previewed, here's another tidbit of info for the map. The southern half of their white area should be removed. This is due to the chance of them becoming a superpower, or white death, too early on and giving their northern neighbors time to expand. They'll start with 2, not 3, provinces.
If y'all don't hear from me after this divulging of info, then the team has sent me on a 'vacation' far away :sharky:
Thank you for the info! That is nice to know. I figured they'd only start with one province, since their Celtic neighbors in Gaul have both been regulated to one starting province.
Will the Belgae start with one province then?
Power2the1
09-23-2011, 05:53
Well, suffice to say that there are some Belgic units in the game of course, 5 units of Belgic origin have concepts. However we can neither confirm, nor deny, plans for a Belgic faction in EB2.
stratigos vasilios
09-23-2011, 06:05
Hey guys, since the Bouiroi/Boii have been previewed, here's another tidbit of info for the map. The southern half of their white area should be removed. This is due to the chance of them becoming a superpower, or white death, too early on and giving their northern neighbors time to expand. They'll start with 2, not 3, provinces.
Did the internal beta tests prove them to be superpowers with the extra province?
Will the Belgae start with one province then?
Well played.
However we can neither confirm, nor deny, plans for a Belgic faction in EB2.
Serve return.
While we're talking about Boii starting provinces, I'd like to share a thought. If there are 3 adjacent regions which are historically accurate start locations for the Boii, but only two are being selected in order to provide more opportunity for the Boii's northern neighbors to expand, wouldn't it be preferable to select the two furthest from the northern factions?
While we're talking about Boii starting provinces, I'd like to share a thought. If there are 3 adjacent regions which are historically accurate start locations for the Boii, but only two are being selected in order to provide more opportunity for the Boii's northern neighbors to expand, wouldn't it be preferable to select the two furthest from the northern factions?
Yes and no imo, I mean they are the Bouiroi, not the Pannoni :)
PS: I love the name and they are increasingly becoming my fav ^^
Power2the1
09-23-2011, 21:41
We've not done a great deal of campaign testing, however the province taken away from the Bourioi actually became their own state later in the timeline. This was the Norikoi/Norici, famous for their steel. Even if the risk of the A.I. turning them into the 'white death' wasn't a factor, the sovereignty of the removed province is a valid reason to remove it, too. The core Bouiroi homeland (Bohemia/Moravia) is located in the remaining 2 provinces so they'll start out right where they were historically.
campaign testing
This got me giggling in excitement :D
More little tidbits are always welcome. I do love it when they 'leak' little bits of information.
Leon the Batavian
10-04-2011, 12:31
I wonder if its possible to add some mouse over name labels to the factions progression map ?
stratigos vasilios
12-26-2011, 06:04
Hi all, had a small hiatus from the forum but I'm back to spam the threads once more! The map has been updated in a very minor way, so hopefully in upcoming previews we can add to the fan creation.
Hey guys, since the Bouiroi/Boii have been previewed, here's another tidbit of info for the map. The southern half of their white area should be removed. This is due to the chance of them becoming a superpower, or white death, too early on and giving their northern neighbors time to expand. They'll start with 2, not 3, provinces.
Done. That look somewhat similar to anything internal?
I wonder if its possible to add some mouse over name labels to the factions progression map ?
I'm not sure how to do that? Does anyone have any ideas?
Any updates for the new arabian faction yet? Nabatea or however its spelt?
stratigos vasilios
04-10-2012, 08:12
Any updates for the new arabian faction yet? Nabatea or however its spelt?
OP Updated.
Was looking at the possible locations map and imo it's a safe bet none of those will have a faction XD
Arabia and India had their fill...
Scandinavia and the northeastern Baltic will partially become Eremos and afaik there weren't large confederations, more deserving than other possible factions...
Same goes for Hibernia and Caledonia...
Belgae too close to the Rhine, in the 3rd century BC, the power centers would be around the Marne and Somme...
Veneti in Cisalpina didn't do much other than raid enemies, only when backed by greater powers...
Histria was ran over by Keltoi in the previous decades, before the EB start date and was settled by various tribes; while the Liburni lived in small communities, very little pastoral economy and raided the Adriatic, in league with other people...
Centers in the area were near the Shkoder, Dardania further inland, Singidunum and short-lived Tylis...
Armorica, that I know, was hardly united in the 3rd century, not even by the time of Caesar...
Aquitania, similar case, very few sources...
Pyrenees were settled by many small communities, each independent (Moros' map shows that at least the east is empty). Celtiberians would make a better candidate...
Mauretania I don't know in which state it was in the 3rd century, earlier there were phoenician commercial hubs. Maybe the Masaesyli held more power...
Wow, Moros is really helpful. i will never believe all the horrible things people were saying about him now. =)
As for the orange shaded map in the OP, I don't think another arabian faction will be included in the eastern part. They did an entire arabian preview, I'd say that would likely cover that region. Also, weren't they only going to release 7 factions for the first release? By my counting we have our 7 announced. This means (if they haven't changed policy in the intervening years) that we are more likely to see a release than a new faction next. Although that doesn't put a timeline on it. Could still be a long long way off.
Belgae too close to the Rhine, in the 3rd century BC, the power centers would be around the Marne and Somme...
How do you mean?
Arjos: Eastern spain, Belgium and Croatia are the most popular regions for speculation however. Which really does bond well with the map if you ask me. These Specualtions however are based on the assumtion, that all faction slots will be filled which is not quite likely afterall.
Also, weren't they only going to release 7 factions for the first release?Interesting, could you link me to the orgin of this information. I've heard a lot of hints that suggest there will be at least one free faction slot but I have yet to see a statement like that black on white.
Eastern spain, Belgium and Croatia
Those areas aren't exactly little :P
I was speaking precisely of the shaded provinces: the Celtiberi lived further inland (Guadalajara, Soria more or less); Croatia was pretty fractured between pannonian Keltoi, Histri and Liburni (to mention some), I was simply saying that organized supra-tribal entities were further south or east...
How do you mean?
Weren't the eastern tribes like Eburones, Nervi etc; part of a later migration possibly in the aftermath of the Cimbri or so?
And my point was focused on the tribes/confederacies that held most power in the 3rd century...
Weren't the eastern tribes like Eburones, Nervi etc; part of a later migration possibly in the aftermath of the Cimbri or so?
And my point was focused on the tribes/confederacies that held most power in the 3rd century...
Correct, if I remember correct Caesar states that several of the Eastern Belgic tribes arrived with the Cimbri and Teutones. However archaeological evidence suggests that the "Belgian" Belgae were already in place by c.300BC.
However archaeological evidence suggests that the "Belgian" Belgae were already in place by c.300BC.
Not so close to the Rhine though, right?
I wouldn't even have an idea about which tribe was holding power there...
Suessiones, Bellovaci and Ambiani settled near the rivers I mentioned...
have our 7 announced.
I remember team members saying that the 10 slots were all decided (in the new factions speculation thread I think), but whether they will release them or not I don't know...
Even though with the early era first release, I think it's not that crazy for all the 10 factions making it...
I must be mistaken then. I thought I had read something a long time ago where someone in the team had said that not all the new factions would make it to the first release. I thought I had then read somewhere else that only 7 would be previewed for the first release. But of course I don't have any of the original comments to hand and its very possible that I am mis-remembering. If so then good news! We can see all the factions then.
fightermedic
04-12-2012, 10:09
8 slots decided and in the first release
2 still up to discussion (but i'm pretty sure they have strong candidates in mind and only lack proper research yet)
thats my understanding
stratigos vasilios
04-12-2012, 11:44
Haven't most people got their money on another Iberian faction or the Belgae?
(and only lack proper research yet)
Brennus to the library!
moonburn
04-12-2012, 17:19
i still think that the arevaci are still going to get in as a faction (in an epic struggle against their arch rivals the belli ) and maybe just maybe an illergette faction was doable altough their "independence" ended on the end of the 2nd punic war when the romans proibited them on the peace agreament they made of raising another army (historic documents say they could easily raise an army of 28.000 well armed warriors as oppososed for instance to the lusitanians who never managed to gather armies with more then 12.000 even the great galba betrayal imprisioned 30.000 most of wich women and children)
anyway all my money is still on the arevaci getting in
ah, that's a fair point Arjos. However this leaves us with 3 possible factions and no place to put them, thus I assume that The map was generated without new(unknown) factions added. But as you(well and ultimately brennus when it comes to Belgians[1]) know a fair share more about the tribes in the 3 regions of question, than me, you could fill me in if at least the province borders support certain "wellknown" factions. I suppose you don't have a ordnance map of 272.BC's Eastern Spain hanging on your wall and that the data at hand does not allow us to draw exact lines but so to speak: does that agree with what you(all of you not just Arjos) know of the tribes at hand?
My Info goes in that direction that all 10 slots are decided but that at least one(maybe more) will be kept open or rather not used/used for funny coding stuff. I think I've also heard of 7 being in on the first release, the question stands what will happen with the other 3 slots.[2]
With 7 factions announced, I think we can look forward to a few (II), EB I faction or general feature previews and a speedy(this year is not totally unlikely) release of the Gaza Campaign.
[1] I used the modern term to cover up my ignorance towards the "ranking" among tribes living in the general area of benelux and northeast France. aka I don't know who's more likly to get in: Belgae, Remi, Suessiones, Bellovaci....
[2] All of this could ofcource be wrong and only product of certain EB members information management.
Found these, they are a bit small sorry :S
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/Arevacos224.jpg/250px-Arevacos224.jpg
In EBI that would be the region of Numantia, bit smaller though...
http://rtw.heavengames.com/albums/Mighty-Belgae/6764967e.jpg
All those tribes, which archaeology places in the early-mid 3rd century BC are situated between the rivers where it says Belgium in the map, which is pretty far from the Rhine.
I think Belgica is going to be redrawn in EBII (from moros' map, I can see two red dots, which should be ports), hopefully there's a landlocked province in the obscured area, otherwise that map is kinda saying no to the Belgae :P
fightermedic
04-13-2012, 02:27
hopefully there's a landlocked province in the obscured area, otherwise that map is kinda saying no to the Belgae :P
well the map wouldn't include the undecided factions
and since we all know that the arevaci will be in the first release ;) this doesn't exactly exclude the belgae i'd say
moonburn
04-13-2012, 17:06
herm the arevaci controlled 3 oppida being numantia the most well known and they shared celtiberia with 6 other tribes with diferent levels of intermingling and alliance that map either doesn´t show numatia (hey i don´t know it´s name in keltic) or the amount of oppidas/setlements they controlled seems exagerated in that map
in those regards the keltik and germanic social organisation seem similar since they prefered to live in smaller more scatered groups instead of great aglomerations where disease could wipe them out completly
In that map Numantia should be Arekoratas (the oppida is in the north east of modern Soria). Rest are both arevacian and other oppida which they subjugated or inter-mixed with.
The Celtiberi as a whole settled an ever greater area:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Mapa_celtiberos.jpg
Of course most of the sources write about the 2nd century BC wars and the celtiberian confederacy was formed around the mid 3rd century BC. The Arevaci in 272 BC would be controlling a smaller western portion of that land (archaeology indicates an eastern movement by the Arevaci, which culminated with the aforementioned confederacy).
moonburn
04-13-2012, 17:59
gracias it seemed something was off beteween the information provided and my sparse knowledge of the tribal relations
stratigos vasilios
06-03-2012, 02:57
Wow, nice Arjos!
Ptolemaios
12-19-2012, 15:29
With the new preview I thought I might dig up this thread.
When I now look at the gaps on the map (The Areuakoi included) there is definitly something lacking in the eastern balticum. This is only from a gameplay point of view, I don´t know if there are any other powerful enough tribes in that area, that would earn a faction slot. And I still think that the Belgae or a faction in Media would be cool.
Yeah, I almost certainly remember reading that the Scythians were not going to be faction, so I don't know who else would qualify for an east Baltic faction. Based on the trade maps in the Areuakoi preview, I don't think there's gonna be many settlements in that region, though.
I'm not sure one could make a strong case for their historical relevance, but I sure think the Veneti would be a good fit in the Armorica province (modern day Brittany). I just feel like someone needs to be in a position to challenge the Pritanoi for dominance of the British Isles, but it's already been stated that there will not be another faction on the isles themselves. A Belgian faction would do the same thing, though they'd be pressured on more sides.
And I think there's still room for an Illyrian or Celto-Illyrian faction.
moonburn
12-28-2012, 23:36
me likes b ray scordiscii or triballoi ramifications
Brave Brave Sir Robin
12-31-2012, 13:42
Wasn't sure whether to open a new thread about this or just post here. Who wants to discuss interesting things they found on the trade map and what they might mean for movement of provinces? So far I've noticed several missing towns/ports on those maps. The biggest one to me seems to be Sidon, there no longer appears to be a Phoenician city in the area. Ammonion and Augila are both gone thankfully. This cuts the Ptollies down by three provinces in Egypt/Levant, hopefully stalling creations of Yellow Deaths.
Also missing are the provinces on the islands of Lesbos and Euboia, both originally Makedonian. Can't really say what effect this would have on gameplay yet, but there is the addition of Ephesus which from prior previews would appear to be Ptolemaic.
Gotland is also missing as are a few of the Baltic provinces.
To balance this out I see an extra province in Skythia, an extra at the Indus basin and an extra in Western Iberia.
Does anybody else see anything interesting in the trade map? I'd like to start a discussion about these things.
moonburn
01-06-2013, 17:18
trade map just shows the routes we can´t make much deductions from it sadly (except wich provinces we mich have to expand to to get a piece of the pie in some trades and wich will be our vital routes to make sure our factions are economically viable such as the luigi and sweaboz fighting over the amber route)
also the map is too small for a proper analyses
As moonburn pointed out in the Areuakoi preview, the map doesn't show the permanent forts, which in EBII will provide income (iirc merchants will be scripted in them) as they represent minor cities...
So with that map, all we can see is where units will be recruited, for all we know, those "removed/missing" settlements from EBI, are still there and increasing the regions' wealth, only difference is that they won't be able to recruit and build...
Other mods have so many permanent forts, it looks like the world doesn't have green spaces anymore lol
Brave Brave Sir Robin
01-07-2013, 01:04
A fair enough point, but the trade map clearly shows borders, cities and ports. It is easy enough to speculate based on it.
As far as PSF's are concerned, interesting with the scripted merchants. Has this been confirmed? Will they all provide equal income or will different cities have merchants with various skill levels created to simulate various levels of development in those regions?
A fair enough point, but the trade map clearly shows borders, cities and ports. It is easy enough to speculate based on it.
About what though? Seems like there won't be any more factions releaved, as there shouldn't be more in the 1st release... (and if they are screwing with our minds, that's enough headaches for me lol)
Rather I'd like to know, if the factions are decided or if slots are still open, in which case maybe we can help with research or something...
As far as PSF's are concerned, interesting with the scripted merchants. Has this been confirmed? Will they all provide equal income or will different cities have merchants with various skill levels created to simulate various levels of development in those regions?
I remember bobbin saying that's what they were going to do with the merchants...
Even something like they can name the PSF, thanks to the merchant present inside (I've seen this in other mods)...
More than that and if they managed to do it, I don't know :P
Brave Brave Sir Robin
01-08-2013, 00:15
That is actually a very cool idea, using a scripted merchant to provide income AND name the fort. It would be an odd mechanic though if the Lusotannan can get as much out of a PSF/city in the Levant as the Arche or Ptolemioi:clown:
I was speculating on provinces mostly from a gameplay point of interest as provincial capitals will still be the main goal for the AI and most players. For example, if the Ptolemioi lose a few provinces maybe we are less likely to see a Yellow Death, what will be the natural expansion point for the Areukioi, etc.
That is actually a very cool idea, using a scripted merchant to provide income AND name the fort. It would be an odd mechanic though if the Lusotannan can get as much out of a PSF/city in the Levant as the Arche or Ptolemioi:clown:
Since they are using merchants, these have 10 trading levels (11 if you count no star at all), haven't read anything about it from the team, but I'd speculate that they will use them and say lvl 1 merchant represents a small trading post or a rural hamlet, lvl 5 a fairly important town/city connected to a specific resource, while a lvl 10 a major trading hub...
Something like that :)
Interesting. Haven't played many mods for M2TW, so I didn't know about the merchant-fort thing either. Pretty clever with the names. I'm guessing what happens is that whenever a particular stone fort is captured, the script automatically spawns a merchant belong to the corresponding faction with the appropriate name? What would happen if the merchant eventually died of old age? Don't know anything about scripting, but it is possible to ensure that there's always one there?
Brave Brave Sir Robin
01-09-2013, 00:50
Interesting. Haven't played many mods for M2TW, so I didn't know about the merchant-fort thing either. Pretty clever with the names. I'm guessing what happens is that whenever a particular stone fort is captured, the script automatically spawns a merchant belong to the corresponding faction with the appropriate name? What would happen if the merchant eventually died of old age? Don't know anything about scripting, but it is possible to ensure that there's always one there?
I understand it would be a similar script to the Central European defense script except with Merchants instead of uber-armies
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