Modding Trade Goods?

[Gaiseric]

I am having trouble adding trade goods to some provinces and I dont know what I am doing wrong. Is there a hidden limit?

I would like to add more trade goods to increase province income across the board, but it seems that I cant add any trade goods to regions from the startpos files. Any Ideas on what I can do?

[gollum]

I have only fiddled with their price in the startpos, so i wouldn't know. Perhaps a thread in the alchemist's lab might have the answer. There might also be a tool in the downloading section that is enabling you to do so. Let me see if i can find a link (and if it works)...

Someone will definitely answer soon though. I seem to remember that the Pocket mod had added goods in provinces and so Caravel might know. Others may as well.

[gollum]

No specific tools found, unless the ones that are said to help to make a campaign can help with adding trading goods too.

[caravel]

You want to add existing goods to a province, or you're trying to add new types of goods? In the latter case, I think they're hardcoded, for the former you just add them to the relevant section of the startpos file.

[Raz]

NB: I haven't touched MTW for year(s) now. some things i say are vague memories of speculations, but for the most part are educated assumptions are whilst not (and never would be) 100% accurate, is close enough as you're probably going to get it. :laugh4:
Also NB: I'm rushing this post, my humour may shine through, and said humour may be witty, but is much more likely to be not-so-witty. please bear with me.

It's the raw resources that are hardcoded: iron, copper, gold etc.
You can add the resources to any region, but you can't create new resources.
(though you can rename and re-picture or otherwise replace them to become effectively like a new resource [and that is beyond the scope of this thread])

But you ask of trade goods, and trade goods are MOST definitely modifiable.
You can add your own to the game (I'm sure of it), and add any of them to any region.

I'd assume there'd be an absurd upper limit for the number that can be added to one individual region, possibly something like 31, but a more realistic upper limit of about ~9 before the resource icons trail off the parchment in game (view screenshot).

I added these to the region of Anjou in the Early period in under 5 minutes.
https://img824.imageshack.us/img824/789/26416332.th.jpg (https://img824.imageshack.us/img824/789/26416332.jpg)

As you can gauge, you'd probably be able to get about 9 trade goods in a single region before the game becomes aesthetically challenged (more so).

However, I did encounter a small, but almost invisible problem!

In the startpos txt for the Early period, i encountered in the SetTradableGoods section (line 1739 in my books) that the region of Anjou had its tradegoods set twice. The problem highlighted red/orange here:
https://img440.imageshack.us/img440/2918/24831103.th.jpg (https://img440.imageshack.us/img440/2918/24831103.jpg)
edit: Sorry, screenshot says HIGH.txt, the superfluous entry is listed in ALL of the startpos text files.

In my first attempt I'd added the goods to the top one, the first one declared. However, in testing, the goods were not added.
From this, I can only deduce that if the region is declared multiple times, it is only the last one that will actually appear in the game.
It's best simply to delete any superfluous, second additions like this.
Perhaps this is what's happening to you TC?

If you have any questions I'd be glad to help!
I might be able to compose a step-by-step tutorial like I used to back in the days when I modded MTW like crazy, but who knows, I might not have the time anymore. :no:
(I promised someone else late last year around these parts that i'd help with his modding, but i never got a chance to... i suppose I feel rather guilty for saying that i'd help him. :embarassed:)

[Gaiseric]

Thanks for the Help!!! I got it working after some trial and error. Some goods could just not be assigned to certain regions in the mod I am playing. To make it work I would add about 5 trade goods to 5 regions, save, and then test to see if it worked in game. With this method, I now have different goods assigned to all regions. When I tried to mod trade goods before I assigned them all at once so I wasn't sure what was causing the problems. I was afraid that there was a hidden limit but thanks to your help I was able to mod the game successfully!!!

Now the regions in game will have a slightly higher income once trading posts are built. I also added some resources across the board to help incomes too. The game I was modding was The Samurai Warlords Mod. I might modify some of the other trade goods in other mods that I have now that I know what I am doing. If I run into any other problems, I will direct my modding questions back to this thread. Thanks again for the help!!!

[Gaiseric]

Double Post, I got a few questions about unit stats and game mechanics.

I was wondering if anyone had the formula the game uses for calculating battle losses when two units meet on the field of battle? I had a look at the unit stats and found the charge bonus, melee bonus, defense bonus, armor level, and honor level for each unit in the game. I am just trying to figure out how all these numbers work on the battlefield?

Also, does anyone know how I can disable the auto-merging that the computer does to my troops after each battle or is there a way to do it manually?

Thanks:)

[caravel]

Also, does anyone know how I can disable the auto-merging that the computer does to my troops after each battle or is there a way to do it manually?

Thanks:)
Click the arrow button to the right of the minimap and uncheck "tidy up units after battle".

-edit: for your other other query, have a look at the old numerology thread at the (old) .com http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/1701

[drone]

I was wondering if anyone had the formula the game uses for calculating battle losses when two units meet on the field of battle? I had a look at the unit stats and found the charge bonus, melee bonus, defense bonus, armor level, and honor level for each unit in the game. I am just trying to figure out how all these numbers work on the battlefield?
Combat is determined man-on-man, with a combat cycle of about 1 second where each man in contact with the enemy strikes once (and can be hit by many, up to 6?). The kill chance is determined from the unit stats plus all the other factors (fatigue, terrain, formation, etc.). The official strategy guide had the details, a crude overview can be found here (https://forums.totalwar.org/wiki/index.php/MTW_Melee_Combat).

[Gaiseric]

Thanks for the links!!! Bookmarked em both :)

How does the game figure out who dies or survives if the Combat Formula gives fractions like 0.31 and 0.76 for a Kill Chance? I am guessing the guy with the lower kill chance would die, but if there is not much of a margin the man to man combat would go to round two. I will have to watch more closely the next time I play to see if I can spot some good matches.

[drone]

Each man in combat gets a roll, so to speak, so each attack can kill if the roll falls within the kill chance. On a given turn, two combatants can kill each other.

[Gaiseric]

I didnt know that the TW Engine uses dice:( Combat still seems to work very well in all the TW games I have played. The ability to maneuver and control the battle as well as all of the economic options available in TW games has not been matched in any of the other strategy/grand strategy games that I have played in the past 20+ years. ( The one exception that I would rate second place would go to Imperial Glory, which has many of the same features as other TW games.) These other strategy games use dice for battles but you really have no control. If two equal, opposing armies battle, it is usually a coin toss on who would win.

I wonder how the game determines who dies from archer fire? On that note, I was wondering how to use archers successfully in MTW? I would like to keep them in back of my army as I engage the enemies line, but I was wondering how much friendly fire there is in the game? If my archers are killing as many friendlies as I think it may not be worth having them in my army. I might try out some skirmish tactics for them today, but I would appreciate any advice on how to best use archers. Thanks:)

[caravel]

]On that note, I was wondering how to use archers successfully in MTW? I would like to keep them in back of my army as I engage the enemies line, but I was wondering how much friendly fire there is in the game? If my archers are killing as many friendlies as I think it may not be worth having them in my army. I might try out some skirmish tactics for them today, but I would appreciate any advice on how to best use archers. Thanks:)
Archers fire over an arced trajectory, so it really depends on terrain, distance, etc.

[drone]

There needs to be some randomness to combat, but the various factors make things somewhat predictable.

Missile kills are based on different missile type stats in the projectile_stats.txt (https://forums.totalwar.org/wiki/index.php/MTW_Projectile_Stats) file. The big stats are Range, Accuracy, Lethality, Power, and ArmourMod. To the best of my knowledge, the only thing that affects a unit's missile performance is valour, which improves the accuracy.

There is friendly fire in the game, the computer is more than willing to let you shoot your troops in the back. The velocity stat affects the trajectory of the missile, a flat trajectory like bullets and crossbow/arbalest bolts really need a clear shot to prevent lots of friendly casualties. This is compounded because armour is the only defense against missiles, and these are AP projectiles. With regular archers, shooting into melee is a little better, especially if your own troops are more heavily armoured. The arc keeps the hits on your own men down, but they will still get hit.

[Stazi]

From the totalwar.com forum:

Shats (04/20/04 17:24:30)

uhhmm 'Bif, archer accuracy does actually get quite noticable over 4 valour. >D Sad but true, significant in campaign, but ellusive in custom and MP. I suspect archery 'quantification' is from a maximum, like 100%-20-valour (rough and innacurate (heh) example). As archer valours get higher, the delta gets larger with each increase. Considering there are other so many dilutary factors, like unit redress making near random (but not quite) numbers of target individuals walk about... wind n' weather, terrain height and facing differences, target angle yadayada finding significance without the higher valour values available in campaign becomes futile... as we both discovered.

I ran some 7s versus some 2s and it, the kill difference, was silly in the 7s favour (vanilla archer versus vanilla archer). Around a 5% per volley which extrapolated to final sizes, before enemy rebel leader killed and rout, at maybe 70% versus their 6%. If it had been several of each, versus several of each, I think three 6s versus three 2s would have had even less loses from tripple teaming causing instant routs every time for no real loses.

Valour on archer accuracy is significant, as long as it's significantly higher than mp maximum. >D

Have you tried to change this value: AccColDec ? Description says :
"y if this projectile should always accurate collision detection against models. This is computationally expensive".
It's only enabled for artillery now. I'm curious if it kill my cpu when I enable this option for every shooting unit in game? Checking each arrow against each soldier - interesting.
btw Does the projectile like arrow/bolt/bullet stops when hits first soldier or the double/triple hits are possible? Maybe it depends on lethality?

[drone]

btw Does the projectile like arrow/bolt/bullet stops when hits first soldier or the double/triple hits are possible? Maybe it depends on lethality?
I believe only one hit is possible in vanilla. There are columns: HitGround, HitTree, HitSoldier, HitWood, and HitStone that get set to REMOVE, PENETRATE, BOUNCE, and EXPLODE. Maybe HitSoldier = PENETRATE might allow for multiple hits? Most arty weapons have PENETRATE, everything else is on REMOVE.

[Gaiseric]

There is friendly fire in the game, the computer is more than willing to let you shoot your troops in the back. The velocity stat affects the trajectory of the missile, a flat trajectory like bullets and crossbow/arbalest bolts really need a clear shot to prevent lots of friendly casualties. This is compounded because armour is the only defense against missiles, and these are AP projectiles. With regular archers, shooting into melee is a little better, especially if your own troops are more heavily armoured. The arc keeps the hits on your own men down, but they will still get hit.

This is good to know. I was shooting into the melee with my troops only starting out at armour level 1. They were dying like flies and I think a lot of that was from friendly fire:( I am going to have to find a differant way to use archers effectivly in combo with these poorly armoured troops.

I might be able to skip putting archers in my army but I will then be faced with the dilema of how to get the enemy off of the high ground. I'll play around with tactics a little and post back the results.

[Stazi]

Common Archers are useful only against lightly armored targets and cavalry with unarmored horses so only during early stages of the campaign. My favorite shooting unit from the vanilla mtw were always crossbows units (especially pavise arbalesters). There is no better unit to get rid of the enemy general without the "hand job". They are slow but it doesn't matter. With right tactic and unit setup you can change every attack into defense battle.

E.g. My perfect multitasking units' setup: 6x melee inf (spearman, pikeman or eventually strong halberd type), 5x pavise arbalester, 2x culverin, 2x heavy cav, 1x horse archers. If you are defender everything is easy. Wait until enemy general is within arbalesters' range and kill him. If you are lucky even culverins can do it.

What to do if you have to attack with this army? You start with cuverin fire. In most situation enemy army is within their range from the start of the battle. If culverins won't force the enemy to attack you send a horse archers. Go and start to shoot enemy units. You can try some fake charges and stop them just before the contact. You can send one of your heavy cavalry unit to help the horse archers. If enemy still doesn't want to attack, you have to move your whole army. Keep your arbalesters in the first line and get within the firing range. Now the enemy will surely attack you. Keep an eye on your arbalesters and move them to the back if enemy gets too close. Of course if the enemy army contains mostly cavalry units you have to be extra careful - pavise arbalesters are really slow.


I might be able to skip putting archers in my army but I will then be faced with the dilema of how to get the enemy off of the high ground.
I think there is no easy solution to force enemy to leave higher ground. Standard nomad's horse archer tactic doesn't work well in the mountains. The best way IMO is to flank enemy with your whole army. It's not easy but doable. AI is forced to reposition some of its units and during this process may leave best positions.

[Gaiseric]

I think there is no easy solution to force enemy to leave higher ground. Standard nomad's horse archer tactic doesn't work well in the mountains. The best way IMO is to flank enemy with your whole army. It's not easy but doable. AI is forced to reposition some of its units and during this process may leave best positions.

Thanks for the advice:) The problem I am having is that the maps in MTW are too small for some of the tactics that I want to use. Plus moving across the battle map really saps my units stamina. This has forced me to have to use archers in my armies so that I can entice the enemy off of a good defensive position. Right now I am playing around with differant skirmish tactics and seeing what works best. If the enemy has archers on the high ground then I have to move farther into their range of fire to taget any infantry that may be enticed down the hill. My next problem is trying to escape the pursuing infantry as they run after my archers. The main problem that I am having is that the melee that results will snowball and turn into a messy and uncontrollable battle. Since the battles happen so fast, the micromanagement is a nightmare compared to later TW games. Although the newer TW games have better battles and graphics, their 3-D campaign maps are horrible.

Sorry that post kind of turned into a rant. I'll keep trying new tactics with my archers and post the results:)