View Full Version : An interesting suggestion

01-22-2011, 20:47
I have seen a lot of threads about the new Total War game coming up (Shogun 2), and there are a lot of threads posting ideas for new things they want to see in the game. Like a ranked multiplayer, or more than 20 unit cards in battles. But it would be kind of cool to have the option to take prisoners at the end of each battle.

Like having the option of either just killing off every single one of the enemy (before they make it to the red-line of the end of the map) or taking people hostage. But in order to take them hostage, they have to be in range of at least one of your units, that aren't routing, on the map. But to choose either option, you just click it on the message before a battle starts. This might only work for single player since in multiplayer you have a new army every battle you take.

But this might make battles more fun. Like if they have a family member in the battle, you might want to keep him alive so you can take him for ransom later. Or you don't want to completely destroy a unit, cause you can kill them later in front of an opposing army to reduce their morale, or you can send them on a suicide charge of the same army you took them from and have their men get scared at the sight of their brothers charge at them.

And if you take an important figure hostage, you can set him up for ransom through the diplomacy system, and get a nice, hefty amount for it. Or they can attack you a second time and steal the man back. But if they do accept the ransom, then you can trick them, and take both the money, and the man. But if you can do that, they can do it to you too. So if you try to trick them, they can counter trick and take back their money.

Even if you spent the money, they can take it back, which might put you in debt, so you will have to work harder for money, or be less wasteful. But the way that works (for the people who want realism) is that since you took the money, you spend some of your money in its place, thinking you will get it and it will balance out what you spent. But if they trick you, then the money you spent won't be balanced out and you lose a lot more than you gained. But one thing that will prevent you from tricking them is that it will give you leader (or any character for the decision of the action) a bad trait, so you won't want to do it very often, unless you want that person to be that way. But the worse the traits the character has of doing what he is doing, the more likely they will attack you back for the person, or the more likely they will ambush for the trade.

But if Creative Assembly decides to do that option, then make sure the AI doesn't trick you every time, that will just get frustrating after a while. But the more the figure is in importance, the more the money they will accept to pay you with. Or, they don't have to pay you at all. You can make them do tasks for your benefit.

It will add a different style to the way you fight (which some people are complaining that it never changed). You won't want to destroy every unit the opponent throws at you, you want to try and make them all rout, which will give you more people to take. The more people you take, the more you can use to lower the morale for their next army they throw at you. The more that happens, the more people you get. You can use some of the prisoners for slavery, which will boost your economy because you are get free labor. This whole system is just one way of making money off the misfortune of the enemy army losing.

But you have to be careful, cause they can also do that to you. So you can just always use brute force in battle, unless you know you are going to win, and you just want to kill everybody, like the old Total Wars. Total War will be launched into a different kind of warfare, psychological warfare. The better you get at scaring your enemy, the more likely they will try to avoid you. The more battles you win this way, the more your name will spread, and the faster. People won't want to fight you if you scare them. The more likely they will be on your side, until their faction is wiped out.

Of course, some people like won't like this idea. So before the campaign there could be an option that lets you take this off, so you can fight a normal way. But this might be an interesting stand point. You can play a whole campaign without this, then you can play a whole campaign with this. As the same faction. This adds twice the re-playability as before. With different outcomes. You can control your faction fear, so there won't be any likelihood of rebels standing up to you. Your countries will be more happy, because they don't want to disappear. Or you can run your country a happy way. More rebels than the first option, but your people will love you more. Which will give you a happy outcome. But if you rule it with fear, you won't get as much as a happy outcome.

But another note on the battles: it will be cool to have some smoke, not any poisons though, thats just cheap. But with smoke you can divide the enemy army into sections. Send horse units into the fray, and slaughter the confused men. Or round them up, and take them over. But there might different ideas on how you use the smoke. You can use it to be shot at on a whole unit and cover them up. Or you can shoot a line of smoke (with ground artillery, I'm not trying to make airplanes come in the game) so the units will be divided and you can send units down those lines and destroy the unit that is trapped. But the artillery doesn't have to be directly in front of its target. It can shoot it diagonally from it or in any other way. But the smoke starts out weak, so units can pass through. But it gets stronger as it goes on. Then it weakens again and stops. So even though they can be singled out, another unit can come in from the opposite end and aid the unit in need. Which might add some strategy, because you will have to do it fast before that one unit gets reinforcements. But it can also happen to other units, at the same time. But there might need to be two cannons, so they can make two lines. But you can have the option of line going through a unit too so it separates them. So you can weaken them easily. But this might happen, if they had this technology during that period.

01-22-2011, 22:45
Fun ideas all but the game gets released in what, 6 weeks? If it ain't in now, it won't happen.

01-23-2011, 00:25
But how bout as a patch?

01-23-2011, 00:49
As far as prisoners, that has been done already in previous TW games. As the battle wore on your troops would capture prisioners and you had the option to slaughter them during the battle in order to affect your opponents morale. This could have unintended effects like causing the enemy to not rout and fight to the last man. Also you lost out on the Koku/gold that you'd gain if the enemy wanted pay the ransom for them. This also included high value prisioners like Generals, Princes and Kings.

I have not seen this option since Medieval 2. Also eventually when you got near the end game you either had so much money that you didnt need to ransom anyone, and the enemy most likely didnt have the scratch to pay for them anyway. Or you slaughtered them on the field of battle and the enemy fought harder than you wanted them to. By default, if no payment was made, the prisioners were then executed and you got nothing. However, killing POW's, or taking no prisioners you raised your Dread rating pretty quickly. High Dread ratings would sometimes make an enemy army march up close to your forces and then they would break and run without engaging you.

Also, welcome to the .Org Amok :2thumbsup:

01-23-2011, 00:57
But instead of them paying you, you can have them do a task that suits you, like you can have them attack a faction that is bugging you with constant sieges or they blockade you port almost every turn. But you can also send their men on suicide charge (after you already took their money that they had) and they could target their leader, which will drain morale a lot. But with a lot of dread, won't they scared and not even want to fight knowing how ruthless you are?

01-23-2011, 01:03
This might be done anyway, just in a different way. It was common for Japanese Clans to sent their sons and daughters to rival or ruling factions to seal treaties and deals between the respective Clans. If the deal was broken, the hostages life was forefit and they were usualy told to comit suppuku.

01-23-2011, 01:14
But what if that person had a significant purpose or trait, won't they want it back, with setting up an attack, or they can be at the faction's knees to beg them back. So you or a computer can give them a task to get them back.

A Nerd
01-23-2011, 01:20
I like your ideas, it would just seem that the AI might find it difficult to manage. I could be wrong though.

01-23-2011, 01:26
Thanks, but thats true. It might be difficult program so they can understand what is happening. But CA has great programmers (despite what other people say, the guys and girls there are trying their best to make them as perfect as possible for us). But I'm just a dreamer.

01-23-2011, 01:26
In the name of 'historical accuracy', which is kind of a relative term regarding some of CA's releases, I dont think it every really happened that way.

In the samauri culture the worst possible thing that could happen was to be taken as a POW. It is a loss of honor and face. Most samauri would much rather die gloriously on the field of battle. This mindset carried all the way to World War II, which is part of the reason that Truman decided to nuke the Japanese homelands.

Also to be put up against their Diamyo in that fashion would be inconcievable to a samauri. Its almost blackmail or bribery. This political gamesmanship was not common in Japanese feudal society. It is mostly a trait of European kingdoms. To a Diamyo, and especially the Shogun himself, those sort of underhanded actions were not honorable at all.

01-23-2011, 01:31
Oh, so if CA doesn't want to piss a lot of people, which they don't, then they won't add this feature. But maybe in future games, like Rome 2, if they decide to create that game.

A Nerd
01-23-2011, 01:48
I would think this might be accomplished, perhaps 'ahistorically' in some diplomatic screen, then you get the units and use them as you wish. Concerning the AI, well, he might make the deal but the actual usage of the units pertaining to the diplomacy would probably be lacking. I know not enough about history to give specific examples as to S2TW and the potential R2TW.

01-23-2011, 01:54
If the AI got control of just a few units, it would turn them into a 2-4 unit raiding party. If the previous AI is any indication anyway.

A Nerd
01-23-2011, 01:58
If the AI got control of just a few units, it would turn them into a 2-4 unit raiding party. If the previous AI is any indication anyway.

I agree. Though a diverse and complicated diplomatic model is appealing, and perhaps available, it is never used in a very diverse way. Always bland, flat and repetitive. Again, I am unfamiliar with the limitations of coding.

01-23-2011, 02:04
The AI might not be shown in the next battle you fight, or not in any battle at all, but it might be possible, or they just won't be recognizable because they could have been retrained to have better weapons or armor, and their number might grow again so they are the full force.

But that 2-4 raiding party can quickly be taken down by some larger force, unless some freak accident happens when you click auto-resolve and it ends as a tie for some reason. But most people will probably play that small battle since it will be easy, and you can test out new tactics in that battle. But it shouldn't be too much of a problem, unless you want a full force to take down a big force that is coming your way.

But I just read here: http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/332-Shogun-Total-War-2-facts-Thread-(unofficial)
that there are hostage units that can be traded for your hostage units or something else, and there is fog that blocks a unit's vision so they can't suspect an attack which satisfies somewhat but hopefully you can have artillery shoot smoke, like how in Rome you could have Ballistas shoot fire arrows with the special ability option. So I guess posted an idea that was already progress, maybe.

01-23-2011, 08:58
The 2-4 unit raiding party is easily crushed by a larger force, true enough. But in the last few TW games the Campaign AI LOVED to spam 2-4 unit raids at you. Very, very annoying and totally pointless when the raids attacked, say, a farm. 80 gold or so to repair it and the AI completely throws away units that should have probably been reinforcing a city or army.

01-23-2011, 18:32
But those 2-4 raiding parties are great for easy experience and they give you a chance to try out new strategies that you have been thinking of in the past that you want to test out. But I can see how they can get annoying, and they could waste a lot of money. But can't you send them a message to stop, like capturing one of their towns or cities closest to you?

01-23-2011, 21:25
Welcome to the Org, Amok :bow: Always nice to see creative thinking, though I think a previous poster has a point in that the release date is close enough that CA is likely in test and polish mode (I should hope so, anyway!).

Were it that the AI were a bit more sophisticated: those small raiding parties, particularly when used frequently, several at a time, can really be distracting, and can draw attention away from the real objective. In chess (years ago), one of the things I liked to do was to try and focus my opponent's attention on my pieces mid-field or on his side of the board, and then move a piece there in a seemingly threatening fashion. If I was successful, my opponent missed the fact that moving that piece had opened a pathway from way back that allowed a seemingly dormant rook, bishop or queen to sweep across the board and capture a valuable piece without consequence. The move up front was just a feint or sacrifice; moving it enabled the real attack and kept the attention of my opponent where I wanted it.

01-24-2011, 02:51
But those 2-4 raiding parties are great for easy experience and they give you a chance to try out new strategies that you have been thinking of in the past that you want to test out. But I can see how they can get annoying, and they could waste a lot of money. But can't you send them a message to stop, like capturing one of their towns or cities closest to you?

You could but the AI doesent seem to care. The AI STILL gets itself involved in conflicts that it has no chance of winning. I'd love to have a sort of 'Get off my lawn' diplomatic option.

01-24-2011, 09:05
Yeah, the get off my lawn option has been a want for many years.

I recently forgot about it though. I still love picturing it in my mind.

Old samurai, with a walker, yelling at some punks.