The Greek Problem.

[Brennus]

One problem I certainly look forward to seeing the solution to in EBII is the problem of the Greeks.

The problem I refer to is how the team is going to represent the local Greek powers. Now as seems to be the case Massalia, Syracuse, Kyrene and other regional powers such as the Aetolians do not, as a reult of their lack of expasionist nature, qualify as factions in their own right. However to disregard these powers as simple Eleutheroi would not do them justice as they were major factors in Roman, Ptolemaic, Seleucid, Macedonian and Carthaginian history. However, as far as I know the only way to represent these powers is as powerful Eleutheroi settlements.

What are peoples' thoughts?

[Arjos]

Maybe few Eleutheroi settlements might be given an army outside the city...
Or one scripted that spawns when the settlement is besieged...

[vollorix]

Other mods used a faction slot, kind of superfaction, to let them become local powers, even quite agressive and expansionistic sometimes, whose settlements where to far away from each other, scatterted all over the map, to act like one unified faction. Their units recruitment pool was restcited to local soldiers etc. I don´t think EB team is going to follow that way, though.

[Brennus]

I was thinking there may be a possibility of scripting it so that you can choose between a variety of the local Greek poleis. Depending on your in game decisions certain reforms are activated which place you in command of say the Aetolians whilst at the same time relieving you of control of Rhodes. I have no idea if this could be scripted, however, I think powerful Eleutheroi are more likely.

[fightermedic]

Other mods used a faction slot, kind of superfaction, to let them become local powers, even quite agressive and expansionistic sometimes, whose settlements where to far away from each other, scatterted all over the map, to act like one unified faction. Their units recruitment pool was restcited to local soldiers etc. I don´t think EB team is going to follow that way, though.

i'd love to see exactly that for all rebel settelments.. well worth one faction slot imho
not going to happen though
damn faction cap

[antisocialmunky]

The Rebel faction IS a faction slot. Its just not particularly aggressive.

The Massive Army Spawns used for the Boii in EB1 worked out pretty well.

Freaking Rhaesus.

[fightermedic]

sadly it's not aggressive AT ALL
an extra faction which everyone is always at war with and which is made as aggressive as in any way possible would do the trick best in my opinion
and i tend to agree with brennus that a way to play different greek cities would be cool
well but for that ther's always a migration campain
massalia campaign i'm coming ;)

[QuintusSertorius]

well but for that ther's always a migration campain
massalia campaign i'm coming ;)

Kyrene is my first stop for a migration game. Just as I did in EB1, I'll use Epeiros.

[moonburn]

well if it was possible to create sub factions inside the eleutheroi maybe just scripting those city´s more cash would enable them to work better i mean syrakuse with a 4.000 mnai earning a turn should put up a decent fight and as for the stacks that always show up now and then they already come with their defenition (illiryan rebels, thracian rebels and so on)

i wonder if it´s possible to create mini economies for each sub faction ...

[antisocialmunky]

I think the scripted super stacks are pretty decent if all you want is a fight.

[fightermedic]

well with scripted stacks there still remains the problem that they are not agressive
thats the core problem really
how to get that nasty rebels to attack agressively

[Arjos]

Given that those settlements didn't become factions, due to non-expansionism, let them be not aggressive :P

[Ludens]

Well, that's arguable since, for example, Kyrene attempted to take over Egypt together with the Seleucids, and Syracuse had long tried to rule Sicily and Magna Grecia. EB1's faction list is not the only possible selection, even when using the same criteria.

That said: I agree that, at this point in history, the Greek colonies weren't particularly more aggressive than other cities. Creating a special faction for them would suggests that there weren't other minor players attempting to start their own little kingdom in the shadow of greater empires.

[fightermedic]

yes of course
doing so just for greeks is the wrong way
if doing something like this it would have to apply to any neutral city
the whole problem might, however, be most visible with the greek cities in mind since those had a extremley strong habit of fighting with any neighbour they had
but this surly applies to other possible factions like, lets say iberian tribes, too
empires minor/major faction thing would be a good way to have them factions, which the team would not have the time to fully flesh out, represented
well
but i gues you just have to work with what you have

well and regarding the agressive thing
i think almost every faction at this time was VERY agressive and engaged in many wars
it's just the fact that most did not have much succsess in terms of gaining big amounts of territory with their wars :D

[Brennus]

Wasn't there some mention by the EBII team that the KH would be re-structured?

[Ludens]

I recall a promise that the KH would be fairly unstable in EB2; so no more perpetual alliance between Athens and Sparta. I don't know about any further restructuring.

[bobbin]

It's still the same 3 cities but yes, it is much more unstable now.

[antisocialmunky]

I seem to remember there were 'kill the Faction Leader' missions from the council of nobles. It would be interesting if you could trip that mission for your own FL.

[Brennus]

It's still the same 3 cities but yes, it is much more unstable now.

Wasn't there some mention of it being possible to gear the KH to evolve into either the Aetolian or Achean league or something along those lines?

[bobbin]

Nope. What would be the differences between the KH and any of those leagues anyway? Apart from the obvious territorial ones.

Basically the KH in EBII will more representative of what it was in history, that is to say a alliance of independent city states, I will not say any more though, need to keep some stuff for the previews.:clown:

[Brennus]

Nope. What would be the differences between the KH and any of those leagues anyway? Apart from the obvious territorial ones.

Basically the KH in EBII will more representative of what it was in history, that is to say a alliance of independent city states, I will not say any more though, need to keep some stuff for the previews.:clown:

Ah that is a good point. Sounds exciting!

And how are the Belgae coming along? :clown:

[stratigos vasilios]

And how are the Belgae coming along? :clown:

Ha!

[antisocialmunky]

Belgae backwards is EagleB

[stratigos vasilios]

EagleBrennus?

[ziegenpeter]

No man its an eagle bee! Looking forward to seeing the new KH in eb2.

[Brennus]

If I am honest my favourite bird would either be a rhea or a macaw, eagles are cool though.

Expanding on the point made by Ludens earlier about smaller poleis and kingdoms attempting to expand in the shadow of the top predators (see, eagles again), when did the Bosporan Greeks attempt expansion?

[antisocialmunky]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE4BT8QSgZk&feature=related

[OvidiusNasso]

If I am honest my favourite bird would either be a rhea or a macaw, eagles are cool though.

Expanding on the point made by Ludens earlier about smaller poleis and kingdoms attempting to expand in the shadow of the top predators (see, eagles again), when did the Bosporan Greeks attempt expansion?

Didn't they defeat the Saka Rauka or was it a different Scythian tribal grouping that went after them?

[Mithridates VI Eupator]

The Saka Rauka never advanced that far. They were confined to eastern Central Asia, and later, being pushed south by the Yuezhi, northern India. The Bosphorans both battled and traded with Schytian and Sarmatian groups, though, and was a major cultural and political factor in the Black sea area. Not to mention their role in the Mithridatic wars.

[fightermedic]

they are one of those factions i know absolutely nothing about and where i'm most eager to see what information the team can provide