Oh Mississippi

[Strike For The South]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20110210/D9L9TRQG0.html



The Mississippi Division of Sons of Confederate Veterans wants to sponsor a series of state-issued license plates to mark the 150th anniversary of the Civil War, which it calls the "War Between the States." The group proposes a different design each year between now and 2015, with Forrest slated for 2014.


Peckerwoods man, freaking peckerwoods

[Major Robert Dump]

Only if they allow some of us to have license plates that say My Great Great Great Grandpa From Vermont Killed Him 22 Rebs or Sherman Was Right About Atlanta

[Crazed Rabbit]

Sherman Was Right About Atlanta

Awesome.

More seriously, should we consider Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest redeemed if he rejected the KKK late in life?

CR

[Fisherking]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20110210/D9L9TRQG0.html



Peckerwoods man, freaking peckerwoods

LOL!

That should put them in their place!


though that is a highly insulting term for those who know it...

[Hosakawa Tito]

Curb yer Reb.

[PanzerJaeger]

I don't see what the problem is. Forest was a military hero with a set of morals that do not equate to modern norms. Americans have never had a problem honoring such men for their accomplishments while ignoring their more questionable views.


Forrest, a Tennessee native, is revered by some as a military genius and reviled by others for leading the 1864 massacre of black Union troops at Fort Pillow, Tenn. Forrest was a Klan grand wizard in Tennessee after the war.

Reporting the 'massacre' at Fort Pillow as fact is also poor reporting. The matter is very much in contention.

[Strike For The South]

I don't see what the problem is. Forest was a military hero with a set of morals that do not equate to modern norms. Americans have never had a problem honoring such men for their accomplishments while ignoring their more questionable views.

I agree to a point. But the man founded the Klan, I think there has to be a point where we draw the line. Forest knew what he was doing when he founded then Klan and the legacy they have left on the south is one of terror. Let's not flame uneccssary fire....



Reporting the 'massacre' at Fort Pillow as fact is also poor reporting. The matter is very much in contention.

ORLY?


LOL!

That should put them in their place!


though that is a highly insulting term for those who know it...

That's why I used it

[Fisherking]

I agree to a point. But the man founded the Klan, I think there has to be a point where we draw the line. Forest knew what he was doing when he founded then Klan and the legacy they have left on the south is one of terror. Let's not flame uneccssary fire....


Not quite.
I know you want to be factual.

Forrest was not one of the six founders but he is believed to have been the head of the First Klan at one point. It is said that George Gordon told Forrest of the Klan.


It is sort of splitting hairs though.

[Strike For The South]

Sorry

Im still in a soul food coma

[Crazed Rabbit]

I don't see what the problem is. Forest was a military hero with a set of morals that do not equate to modern norms. Americans have never had a problem honoring such men for their accomplishments while ignoring their more questionable views.

Saying his morals don't equate to modern norms is a very nice way of saying he led the KKK. What other KKK leaders have Americans honored like this?

CR

[Fisherking]

Saying his morals don't equate to modern norms is a very nice way of saying he led the KKK. What other KKK leaders have Americans honored like this?

CR

Senator Robert Byrd D, WVa

In the early 1940s, Byrd recruited 150 of his friends and associates to create a new chapter of the Ku Klux Klan.
According to Byrd, a Klan official told him, "You have a talent for leadership, Bob... The country needs young men like you in the leadership of the nation." Byrd later recalled, "suddenly lights flashed in my mind! Someone important had recognized my abilities!

edit: I am pretty sure he has more buildings, schools, highways, streets, and statues named for him than Forrest ever will.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Argh. Point taken.

I still dont like Forrest though.

CR

[Fisherking]

Sorting out Forrest is no easy task.

You need not admire him but he is often cited as the best tactical leader of the Civil War on both sides.

Fort Pillow was for ever a black mark on his name and one he always brought up, both in public and in privet, so it must have greatly disturbed him.

He was accused of atrocities by a Southerner in a letter home and by the Northern Press, however, both he and Union Troops present at the battle say that the troops unwillingness to surrender, even in flight, were the reason for the carnage.
Both black and white Union troops were slaughtered or taken prisoner.

Still some of the evidence is ambiguous and I would not want to commit to either side.

Forrest’s name is always prominent among discussions of the KKK however, it never seems to tell that he ordered the First Klan’s disbandment in 1869.

The Civil War and Reconstruction was an ugly time and the closer you look the uglier everything gets. I don’t know if you would want to call anyone a hero.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I want George Wallace's face on every license plate of Alabama in 2013. Because this was historical:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Wallace_at_University_of_Alabama_edit2.jpg

[PanzerJaeger]

ORLY?

Yes. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_Pillow#Massacre)



Argh. Point taken.

I still dont like Forrest though.

CR

You can add Harry Truman to the list as well.

If you would like to expand it to other prominant Americans who owned slaves or were on record supporting racist views you can add George Washington and Abraham Lincoln to the list, among many others.

[Strike For The South]

Yes. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_Pillow#Massacre)
It makes me sad you used wiki




You can add Harry Truman to the list as well.

If you would like to expand it to other prominant Americans who owned slaves or were on record supporting racist views you can add George Washington and Abraham Lincoln to the list, among many others.

The man was an integeral part of the early KKK, an organzation that needs no introduction

He was not, simply a man of his times

There is no need for this

[PanzerJaeger]

It makes me sad you used wiki

I am sorry.


The man was an integeral part of the early KKK, an organzation that needs no introduction

Forrest joined the Klan in 1867 during a time of great civil unrest in the South. During that time he used the Klan to try and convince blacks that they were better off returning to the pseudo-feudal system that existed before the war, emphasizing restraint and order in Klan activities. It may sound odd today, but there were many blacks left homeless and without work in the South after the plantation system was destroyed, and it was hoped that they would choose stability over rights. He attempted to dissolve the Klan in 1869 due to the violence he could no longer control.

Many people do not know, however, that by 1875 his views had evidently changed dramatically. He supported reconstruction and rebuilding friendly relations with the North. His last public appearance (http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/bday/0713.html) before his death was before a black civic group, where he gave a speech in support of a thoroughly progressive agenda of equality and harmony between the races. He was ashamed of his involvement with the Klan, and fought bitterly to keep it out of his legacy.


He was not, simply a man of his times

Indeed he was not. He seems to have realized nearly a century before most Southerners that the old order had fallen and that racial harmony was the best way forward.


There is no need for this

That is up to the people of Mississippi to decide. There is no more or less shame in celebrating him than, say, Patton, who was also a racist and an anti-semite. Forrest was arguably the better tactician, though.

[Strike For The South]

There is probably something to be said that Patton and Forrest were both fashioned in the Southern military culture, bah.....I'm to drunk to give you a thoughtful reply but I do throughly enjoy your barbs. You took someone I'd admire and then used some of the qualities I'm am railing against and applied them to him. I like that.

Of course you felt the need to link it, do you not trust my knowledge? Didn't he end up giving flowers to the black lady who tried to spit on him? Im hazy on the story.....

I tip my hat sir, We are "bantering".

TO much midday whiskey

See what happens when work is a half day kids?