View Full Version : Middle-Earth campaign map?
I'm just looking for Middle-Earth high res picture suitable for a campaign map. If you have any or know where I can find it, please, let me know. I'm not a graphic of any kind so I can't paint it myself. Thanks.
Map from Battle for Middle-earth(without location icons, suitable for Med castles maybe?): http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=277511
Very big white-black map(replacing white with some stylish parchment texture would be good): http://www.freeinfosociety.com/media/images/4878.jpg
These are too small, I think: http://earing.80port.net/images/maps/Soundtrack%20-%20Middle%20Earth.jpg , http://www.ardalibrary.net/pictures/maps/pmap.jpg
What are you planning?:sneaky:
Thank you very much. I should have started with twcenter. The other maps looks interesting too (I need a lot of names - provinces, towns/castles, etc).
What are you planning?:sneaky:
I try to put together the remainings of ME:TW mod. If I get the permission from the author maybe I'll share my work with the community here. If not it will be my home mod.
btw I can't find any release (even beta) of Silmarillion:TW. Theoretically, the project is only suspended but 3 years past since last message so I think it's canceled. It's a pity because those two mods was nearly finished (judging by the posts). I'll be grateful if someone can send me the remainings of Silmarillion:TW. I'm sure some units will fit into third age too.
Yeah, that's a shame that those mods weren't released, the units were incredible.
Nice to hear that someone wants to do something with that! :P
If you need some help, I can do something(testing, graphics).
We (me and huth) are working on revival of Middle Earth mod and I'd like to know if there are any people still interested?
We made entirely new campaign map with 119 land and sea regions. Two days ago I've finally managed to make a campaign working without too many CTDs. Now I'm slowly transferring graphics made by ME:TW team. I'm still learning about MTW mechanics so it's not an easy process.
The other problem is that I don't know the whole idea behind the mod so some things look really strange. For example: 8 trade goods which were made signs of capitals for 8 "nations" (Elves, Dwarfs, Gondor, Rohan, Harad, Isengard, Mordor, Orcs)!? All other trade goods were removed. New tech tree with about 30 new buildings but not even one word of description, info pics etc. So... if you know someone who was a member of the METW team or one of the beta testers please let me know. I've tried to contact via PM the last active mod creator (christof139) few weeks ago but no answer till now. Eventually, we'll have to make whole tech tree from the scratch.
Hmm... I'm just thinking about the faith and how to convert all hardcoded faith related things to fit the middle-earth e.g. zeal, catholic/muslim rebellions, etc. If you know how to cover this, please, let me know. Generally, any ideas are welcomed!
never worked with the original modders, but from my perspective it was clear that they were really trying to push the mechanics of the game.
IIRC, the 8 trade goods are actually resources (you gotta make this distinction), resources determine what buildings can be constructed in the province via the build_prod. It makes for an excellent way of representing the distinctive cultures in the middle earth universe.
For example: suppose i want to limit the construction of elven buildings in the original elven regions, I'd make all elven buildings require say the "gold" resource, and then add that resource to the regions i want to limit the constructions to. Then it's a simple process of rename "gold" to "elven culture" (or whatever) and giving it a new icon. BANG easy construction limits based on a resources in the form of "culture".
Now as for their tech tree, it was a very, very rudimentary proof-of-concept work-in-progress. ;)
They'd built their building tree as a bit of a skeleton for each faction, they were pretty much carbon copies of each other. E.g. The men of gondor get a temple that gives a morale boost, so do the evil men - same building, same function, different name, different picture. (note this is an example, i can't actually remember if such a building existed)
It was very basic, very unpolished and they tried creating it far too rigid in my eyes. Everything was far too equal and balanced, if it was completed, i think the concept behind this ultra-rigid, carbon-copied skeleton would've made for no challenge playing as any faction. Each would've been too equal and samey. Not very interesting (at least with the tech-tree on the campaign map --- the actual units were quite diverse and very nice).
Zeal can further represent patriotism, faith can be a ratio/measurement of the cultures in the region, conflicting "religions" represent conflicting cultures and naturally disputes and uprisings/rebellions will occur. Too easy! :D
I recommend rebuilding the tech tree, but i liked the concept behind the resources and the intentions that they had for them, as my knowledge has it, no released mod has used a similar feature like this.
As you might've guessed, I for one am interested in this mod. Keep at it.
- Hope this post helps you both Stazi and huth. :bow:
IIRC, the 8 trade goods are actually resources (you gotta make this distinction), resources determine what buildings can be constructed in the province via the build_prod. It makes for an excellent way of representing the distinctive cultures in the middle earth universe.
For example: suppose i want to limit the construction of elven buildings in the original elven regions, I'd make all elven buildings require say the "gold" resource, and then add that resource to the regions i want to limit the constructions to. Then it's a simple process of rename "gold" to "elven culture" (or whatever) and giving it a new icon. BANG easy construction limits based on a resources in the form of "culture".
Thanks for the info Raz!
I know the idea of limiting training area by resources but I'd like to know what they were thinking about goods e.g.:
SetTradableGoods:: ID_LANDREG_18 METWElvesCapital
SetTradableGoods:: ID_LANDREG_56 METWEreborCapital
SetTradableGoods:: ID_LANDREG_40 METWGondorCapital
SetTradableGoods:: ID_LANDREG_37 METWHaradCapital
SetTradableGoods:: ID_LANDREG_19 METWIsengardCapital
SetTradableGoods:: ID_LANDREG_54 METWMordorCapital
SetTradableGoods:: ID_LANDREG_23 METWOrcCapital
SetTradableGoods:: ID_LANDREG_26 METWRohanCapital
No other goods were specified. They made them this way only to increase the income from capitals? Maybe these goods were just signs of something else. It really bothers me. Can we use goods for something else than increase income?
Now as for their tech tree, it was a very, very rudimentary proof-of-concept work-in-progress. ;)
They'd built their building tree as a bit of a skeleton for each faction, they were pretty much carbon copies of each other. E.g. The men of gondor get a temple that gives a morale boost, so do the evil men - same building, same function, different name, different picture. (note this is an example, i can't actually remember if such a building existed)
It was very basic, very unpolished and they tried creating it far too rigid in my eyes. Everything was far too equal and balanced, if it was completed, i think the concept behind this ultra-rigid, carbon-copied skeleton would've made for no challenge playing as any faction. Each would've been too equal and samey. Not very interesting (at least with the tech-tree on the campaign map --- the actual units were quite diverse and very nice).
It looks exactly as you said. The units are great and that's why I started to think about the campaign. I didn't think too much about making new tech tree till now. So.. if you have any ideas how should it look like feel free to post.
Zeal can further represent patriotism, faith can be a ratio/measurement of the cultures in the region, conflicting "religions" represent conflicting cultures and naturally disputes and uprisings/rebellions will occur. Too easy! :D
Another good idea.:thumbsup: thanks
Below some examples how the map looks at the current stage (TBFME map modified by huth). It still needs some improvements e.g. it's too dark and border lines are hardly visible. I think we'll make pixels near the border lines a little brighter. VI minimap is a placeholder until we'll be sure that main map is the final version. There are some known places made like the Malta or Rhodes in original MTW. Some of them are dead ends like Helm's Deep or Minas Tirith and some are passable like Khazad-dum or Lonely Mountain. They'll have their own siege and battle maps attached (like it was designed by METW team).
https://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp24/Goblin_Wizard/00000001-1.jpg
https://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp24/Goblin_Wizard/00000003.jpg
https://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp24/Goblin_Wizard/00000002.jpg
https://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp24/Goblin_Wizard/map_lined_ok_2.png
TO EVERYONE:
:help:
If you like the idea of playing a mod such this, please, post some comments/ideas. We are fairly new to modding MTW and any type of help/feedback is welcomed.
Some issues i can think of:
- as you probably noticed English is not my native language. We'll surely need help with units', buildings' descriptions. Orcish and Elvish native speakers are wanted too :wink:
- we need Tolkien expert. Some related issues - lack of forenames, surnames (especially for Harad), heroes/famous kings for all factions, best timeframe for mod, etc.
Hello Stazi,
i'll try to contribute in this thread as time allows, but i can't do at the moment more than that (or more than the promise of that), due to other (non game) commitments.
The mod is a fine idea, and i really wish you good luck with it. Its tough and hard to mod, but also very satisfying, especially when its "done" (or nearly done because you always think that you could do something different)
keep it up and good luck :)
Hello, Stazi! I'm very interested in what you're doing. I am willing to help if needed but only after I'm done with my mod, which should be released in a little while. Meanwhile let me make the following comments:
1-The Rohan faction needs serious overhaul because its main strength, cavalrymen, die easily even to the lowly spear-armed goblins.
A- Solution: Increase the number of men from 40 to 60 or 80, whichever proves more effective through playtesting.
B- Solution: Decrease the anti-cavalry bonus that spear and pike-armed units have.
c- Solution: Create more infantry units for Rohan, especially an Axe or spear-armed unit (probably both) capable of holding the line while cavalrymen flank or charge from behind. Currently, the Rohan horsemen are supposed to break enemy formations headon, which they cannot do.
Thanks for your offer. Let me know when you'll be ready.
And yes, you're right. Whole unit rooster needs to be tested. IMO Rohan should be like Golden Horde - 80% cavalry of all types: light, heavy,horse archers, javelineers. Infantry - only swordsmen/axemen and archers.
We are currently working on the new tech tree and campaign map pieces. As Raz said, the original tech tree was pretty boring - same buildings for all factions.
Some ideas being discussed:
changing the factions' recruitment zones from provinces oriented to buildings oriented. Every faction has unique units' rooster. If a faction will be pushed away from their lands, this faction won't be able to build new units. I think, units should be restricted only by "faction association" and "building requirements" columns and these buildings should available everywhere around the map (at least for standard units).
unique castles' strategic map icons. METW team made only 6 slightly different castle icons (3 good, 3 evil). We'd like to make one castle upgrades "line" for each faction. The problem is - when we make each castle line restricted to only one faction, it will be totally destroyed when province will be conquered by other faction. Building a castle from the ground every time a province changes the owner... it's not a good idea.
The other idea is to give 3 levels of the same castle to each faction so we can have 5 factions with their own castles. There are 8 factions now so for example all 4 evil factions will have to share the same castle design.
What you think of making a one man, kensai style, elite units for known heroes? It should be interesting to see Aragorn or Elrond fighting Nazgul.
If you know other solutions for the first two points, please, leave a comment.
Hello stazi,
regarding unit dependency, i would certainly make them building dependent only. It's an interesting idea to have unique tech trees for each faction, and so have to build your own infrastructure in every province to make it worthwhile in terms of recruitment to have troops from there.
As you say, i'd avoid teh area of recruitment system. It does not work well in TW because the AI is not aware of it, and that is made only worse by the fact that domination is the usual goal. I tried it for modding the medieval game, and the AI was hopeless with it. That was made worse and worse if you took its logic to the extreme.
So sticking to unique tech trees and building dependencies only is the best imo. I personally would avoid the unique tech trees because that means testing all factions with dufferent tech trees and tweak the dependencies to work - and that would be far far more difficult and time consuming with unique tech trees, even if they are culturally unique (ie you have 3-4). But its your mod and up to you - just wanted to make the point for your benefit. As a player of course, i'd love unique tech trees :)
1-The Rohan faction needs serious overhaul because its main strength, cavalrymen, die easily even to the lowly spear-armed goblins.
A- Solution: Increase the number of men from 40 to 60 or 80, whichever proves more effective through playtesting.
B- Solution: Decrease the anti-cavalry bonus that spear and pike-armed units have.
c- Solution: Create more infantry units for Rohan, especially an Axe or spear-armed unit (probably both) capable of holding the line while cavalrymen flank or charge from behind. Currently, the Rohan horsemen are supposed to break enemy formations headon, which they cannot do.
I'm thinking A and B solutions are good. A, because as Rohan based mainly on cavalry, these units should be larger than in armies based on infantry. B - once I modded unit_prod for my campaign making cavalry stronger not by giving better stats, but by decreasing anti-cav bonus for all units other than cav, mostly to negative values. Of course it was very significant change, at last low-tier spearmen didn't hold like supermen against better cav...
Dol Guldur
03-29-2011, 13:34
Looks interesting. I've recently got the old metw files for RTW:BI up on TWC if they are of any use (they are open source now), but I have no knowledge as to whether the original metw files for mtw still exist. I'll ask Burns if I see him online. Encaitar disappeared some time ago...
FATW will be listing other Middle-earth mods on its site, so if you have a beta out this year I'll gladly include a link to it.
Best of luck!
Thanks for your interest. I'll be very grateful if you add link to the RTW version of ME mod. I've tried to search but I found only early 0.7 beta. We can surely use some of the buildings' and units' descriptions, icons, banners, etc. Even info pics can be made from ingame units' screenshots.
I'll be even more grateful if you find someone who has the latest ME:TW files for MTW/VI.:bow: All I found is 0.71a version with beta campaign add-on.
I'll surely contact you when we'll have a beta ready. We've started few weeks ago so don't expect anything soon.
Dol Guldur
03-29-2011, 22:17
Sure, the RTW/BI version is on the TWC Repository here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=355
I don't see Burns online much (as I'm not online), but I'll ask him if I do or point him to this thread. I think there is little chance there'll be files beyond what you have though.
Very very interesting! If I wasn't already engaged in a (similar) project, I'd definitely help. For now, I'll just wish you good luck and hope you stick with it.
A potential idea would be to use the ship range trick VI uses to allow Valinor to be on the map. More suited to a Silmarillion-era campaign, a way to allow the Eldar to have a play.
I love the maps, btw. :2thumbsup:
Dol Guldur
04-23-2011, 16:10
I spoke with Burns - there is no mtw version of the files for the old me:tw in existence as far as he knows.
It's a pity but I'm not surprised. Anyway, thanks for your efforts.
Are you working on it then Stazi?
Not exactly "working". I realized few weeks ago that I don't remember the trilogy enough and I need some inspiration (ideas for buildings mainly). So now I'm reading books and other related stuff, watching movies, etc. I've been busy with my RL life lately too so not much of a progress has been done.
The other things that slightly discouraged me are hardcoded limits. One of my friends is good with C++, assembler and other programming stuff so I gave him a task to find out if there is any possibility to make some changes in the exe and dlls. I don't expect too much but... who knows?
btw Do you think that elves had brothels? What about orcs or dwarves :laugh4:?
P.S. Thanks for your question. During writing this reply I've come up with a new idea (no, not about brothels:sneaky:). Maybe not a big one but something worth to try.
Gay hotties would be certainly elves and gay hunks dwarves (always such hatreds have homoerotic connotations in depth - see Top Gun for details...) and some sadomaso orcs/urukhai couples ;)
You're welcome, RL always comes first, take it easy :)
HopAlongBunny
04-30-2011, 22:59
Good luck with this :)
In the "Best Idea Never to See the Light of Day" category this is/was #1 imho.
Hello again. I've just came up with the new idea and I'd like to know your opinion.
I'm going to make each "good" faction corruptable. For example Rohan, after conquering Isengard, will be able to construct a special unique building that gives access to new tech tree and units like goblins and Uruk-Hais. There will be some disadvantages of this e.g.: losing access to the Rohirrim's high-endunits, buildings, "good" agents, etc. New "bad" units, agents will spread another "faith" so it'll cause a drop in loyalty/happiness. "Bad" buildings will directly reduce province's happiness too. That special, unique building will be indestructible so there will be no way back (of course except losing a province with that building). I think it should be like highest difficulty level.
Places where factions can get corrupted:
Rohan - Isengard
Elves - Dol Guldur
Dwarves - Moria and/or Mt. Gundabad.
Gondor - Cirith Ungol and/or Angbad
All factions - Barad Dur
As I said it's just an idea so let me know what you think.
Hello Stazi,
wouldn it be more plausible with the Middle Earth universe to have say corrupted Rohirim for Isengard once Saruman conqueres Rohan etc? I mean for the evil side to corrupt the good side factions once they are conquered. The good side, may perhaps call upon ancient, pre-existing powers once they free a place from the evil power's spell by conquering it - say Saruman returns to the good side, for example, or his power is used to double that of Gandalf.
AFAIK, in Tolkien's world, evil has no substance of itself and appears to be as a coruption of good - hence Orcs are Elves fallen to the shadow etc.
Stazi, one idea for battlefield gameplay thath may (or may not :) interest you.
While Rohirim certainly get casualties by Urukai and orc pikemen, these are still unable to stop the charge on its tracks. If you maintain the rank bonuses for MTW spears to model such units this will not happen because a unit designated as "spear" in the unitprod file always stops the charge dead on its tracks.
A way around this is to have spear units, edsignate them as swords in the unit_prod and give them non-rank anticav bonuses for attack and defence. In this way, these units will not stop the charge while still being more effective than others against cavalry. This is a feature in the Sam Wars mod, spears there function this way.
AFAIK, in Tolkien's world, evil has no substance of itself and appears to be as a coruption of good - hence Orcs are Elves fallen to the shadow etc.
It doesn't have to be a general evil substance. I've been thinking of powerful evil places/artifacts like the one ring that corrupted Isildur or Saruman corrupted by Sauron via palantir. It's not a corruption of whole faction but the leader.
wouldn it be more plausible with the Middle Earth universe to have say corrupted Rohirim for Isengard once Saruman conqueres Rohan etc? I mean for the evil side to corrupt the good side factions once they are conquered. The good side, may perhaps call upon ancient, pre-existing powers once they free a place from the evil power's spell by conquering it - say Saruman returns to the good side, for example, or his power is used to double that of Gandalf.
While it's a very good idea I can't imagine how to do this in terms of game mechanics. All we have are build_prod and unit_prod files. It's not easy to make such a tech tree change for faction a player actually controls, not to mention another faction. You can for example connect all units with one building in Isengard. Faction conquering Isengard will free the Saruman from the evil but it will work for every faction, not for good ones only.
While Rohirim certainly get casualties by Urukai and orc pikemen, these are still unable to stop the charge on its tracks. If you maintain the rank bonuses for MTW spears to model such units this will not happen because a unit designated as "spear" in the unitprod file always stops the charge dead on its tracks.
A way around this is to have spear units, edsignate them as swords in the unit_prod and give them non-rank anticav bonuses for attack and defence. In this way, these units will not stop the charge while still being more effective than others against cavalry. This is a feature in the Sam Wars mod, spears there function this way.
Great idea, thanks. Another approach is to give cavalry rank bonuses. This way heavy cavalry can beat the spearmen/pikemen units in frontal assaults (like winged hussars in Pike & Musket mod).
Hello Stazi,
regarding the corruption of good side factions being conquered, there could be corrupted versions of their units with homeland edsignation (say for corrupted Rohirim only Rohan provinces) and faction designation (say only Isengard can get them). In terms of building dependency they could be made from either Rohan buildings left over or from regular Isengard buildings but only in the appropriate provinces as stated before.
Cyprian2
06-25-2011, 03:09
Love your ideas, Stazi and huth (plus, the map is astounding). I'm glad to see this mod from the Elder Days :laugh4: is being revived. (Hope it's still progressing, btw...) I'd be glad to offer my services for building/unit/faction descriptions when you've come to the point where such things are required. Feel free to PM me. Until then, best regards. I will be keeping an eye on this.
Thanks for the offer Cyprian. I'll surely PM you when I'll have something a little playable. I'm still not sure if I have enough time and enthusiasm to finish this mod so I don't want to waste your time.
Now I'm focusing on tech tree and units rooster. I'll probably release an alpha version (without any new music and limited gfx) for those who would like to help me with gameplay and balance tests. btw Middle-Earth economy, income from different regions, tradeable goods, etc. are a mystery to me. Does anyone know where I can find such a detailed information? Maybe someone who has an experience with LOTR mods for Rome or MTW2 could help me with this? (I don't like 3D strategic map so I rarely play new TWs).
I'm testing some possibilities and I'd like to know your opinions.
1. Zones of recruitment - "national" units will be recruitable with full strength (say 100 men per unit) only within the core provinces e.g.: elven units in Mirkwood, Lothlorien, Imladris. Adjacent provinces will produce the same unit but with 60 men and all other provinces 40 men unit. It'll simulate stretched supply lines and limited number of recruits in regions far away from homeland. Of course, you'll be able to merge all these small detachments into full, 100 men unit.
So, if you loose large part of your army far away from your homeland, you'll have 3 options:
wait for new units from your homeland
wait while building detachments and slowly reinforce your army.
recruit human mercenaries - much weaker but numerous.
This should force players to better prepare their campaigns and make the game harder. This should also help AI to keep its homelands.
2. Land trade routes - two options here:
simulate trade route via buildings with fixed income (like mines or cathedral) e.g.: if you control all (say 5) provinces that belongs to the trade route you'll be able to start building trading posts or caravanserais. Disadvantages: a) always the same income, b) if you loose one of the provinces you'll still get income from 4 others.
make fake sea that connects all 5 provinces, give provinces tradeable goods, ports, shipyard kind of building which will produce tradesmen/caravans. Tradesmen/caravans will work like ships. Disadvantages: possible fights between tradesmen/caravans, port icons inside provinces with no visible coast. Advantages: realistic and fluctuating income even if you control only one province.
I'll probably use this second option to make Anduin navigable (for normal ships) from Osgiliath to the sea but I'm not sure about full inland trade routes.
I think about 4 trade routes:
- from Blue Mountains to Shire and Bree
- kind of Silk Road from Khand, through Harad to the coast - Umbar or further to Gondor (maybe Pelargir)
- From Rohan, through the Undeeps ford to Rhovanion
- river trade route from provinces along the Anduin Vale, through portage way at Sarn Gebir to Osgiliath.
Let me know what you think. All suggestions and ideas are warmly welcomed!
1. Zones of recruitment - "national" units will be recruitable with full strength (say 100 men per unit) only within the core provinces e.g.: elven units in Mirkwood, Lothlorien, Imladris. Adjacent provinces will produce the same unit but with 60 men and all other provinces 40 men unit. It'll simulate stretched supply lines and limited number of recruits in regions far away from homeland. Of course, you'll be able to merge all these small detachments into full, 100 men unit.
That's a pretty neat idea. How would you implement it?
That's a pretty neat idea. How would you implement it?
I'd like the idea to be mine. It was invited by Cegorach and described here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?115173-The-MTW-hardcoded-list!&p=2390867&viewfull=1#post2390867). I've done a few tests and it works.
What you think about the other idea? Which option do you prefer?
Interesting trick with the units. As a software guy I'm racking my brain for reasons why the developers would put something like that in. :inquisitive:
I don't quite understand your first proposal on the inland trade routes. How do you force ownership of a set of provinces before unlocking a building? The second is reasonable, but will that method allow for "seaborne" invasions?
I don't quite understand your first proposal on the inland trade routes. How do you force ownership of a set of provinces before unlocking a building?
Before the start of the campaign each province gets the unique and indestructible landmark building (multiple copies of "forest clearing" from VI). I've discovered that a building to be indestructible only need to use "forest clearing.bif" as its icon file name (3rd column in BUILD_PROD file). So, all landmarks share the same icon and description but Info Pic can be different. If you nullify the description's text and imprint the whole description directly on the info pic you can have unlimited number of different indestructible buildings. To know what is the role of anyone of these buildings, you only need to right click on it. So, you can make trade route buildings dependent on these landmarks and choose which province belongs to the route.
I think it's really useful idea because you can add whole variety of buildings' traits (faith propagation, happiness bonus/penalty, mercenary magnetism, etc.) and they will work as the province's parameters.This even solve the problem of units valour bonus which stops the AI from further developing the province when the unit's requirements are met. It works even better cause the possible range of the bonus is 0-9 now. And every province with its own picture and description is really nice feature, isn't it?
The second is reasonable, but will that method allow for "seaborne" invasions?
:shame: ooops. That's why I'm always begging for comments. Thank you very much! I was so focused on implementation of this feature that I forgot about this "little" side effect. It makes this method useless for land trade routes but I think It still makes sense for rivers.
Hello, Stazi! I still stand by my offer to help if I can. You can even try to talk me into focusing on your mod rather than start one of my own :)
Hello, Stazi! I still stand by my offer to help if I can. You can even try to talk me into focusing on your mod rather than start one of my own :)
I know that's far too late now but I'd like to thank you very much for your offer. I didn't have much time last 3 months so I didn't even check the forum too often. I wish you luck with your new project. It's really interesting.
Staz, is the ME-stratmap you have been working on fully operational and done?
- A
Staz, is the ME-stratmap you have been working on fully operational and done?
- A
It depends what you call "fully operational and done". Operational - probably yes, done - certainly not. Generally, two map layers and all connections between provinces (txt files) are done. You can move units and ships without problems. IIRC I've been testing some weird, extreme parameters in a few provinces but all others still have the same, default values (income, battle maps, etc.). I was going to make operational structure first. Adding "details" to the campaign map was planned after completion of units and buildings trees.
Hmm..there is a small issue with minimap. To save one province slot I decided to make mountains in "pink" which resulted that they looks the same as sea on the minimap (they are transparent). But after a few discussions and modifications suggested by huth (he knows LOTR much better than me) it turned out that we still have 1-2 province slots left. If I have some time I probably make one of those provinces like Sahara - inaccessible province named Mountains. Eventually, I can make mountains as parts of adjacent provinces (like original MTW map). But imo it's not a good idea because mountain chains in ME are passable only in a very few places which should be clearly shown on the map.
Well Staz, then I offer the following advice... Get that map fully operational and done 100% - you can worry about all buildings, troops, trade, income and metals/resources etc. etc. later. Make a basic and reliable map first (default values) and make that your priority...
Once you have a basic stratmap fully operational (as in 100% done and functional in-game - this means all files, the big TGA-texture as well) at your disposal, one big fat obstacle is out of the way for you and this entire project - then you can tinker with that map as much as you want. Beacuse then you will still have fully operational map to fall back on if things get screwed up (and they probably will - sooner or later). You will thus have something regardless how things goes with the special/advanced map... And yes, earmark that vacant palette-slot for mountains/swamps/whatever, otherwise it will look like crap on the stratmap minimap in-game - again, I have been there as well.
In general, working on several things at the same time is not a good strategy to get anywhere on projects of this scale. It is much better to be able to see the progress you do - whenever that is possible - that was my experience. Do one thing at a time, finish it and then move on. Secure a functional and reliable tractor first, then you can worry about how to make that ugly monster into a golden porsche - to use a car-analogy here.
Just sayin...
- A
Thank you very much for all your insights and advices. I really appreciate that.
Well Staz, then I offer the following advice... Get that map fully operational and done 100% - you can worry about all buildings, troops, trade, income and metals/resources etc. etc. later. Make a basic and reliable map first (default values) and make that your priority...
The map is 100% operational now. I'll have to add that one province for mountains. That's all.
In general, working on several things at the same time is not a good strategy to get anywhere on projects of this scale. It is much better to be able to see the progress you do - whenever that is possible - that was my experience. Do one thing at a time, finish it and then move on. Secure a functional and reliable tractor first, then you can worry about how to make that ugly monster into a golden porsche - to use a car-analogy here.
I know that working on the one thing at a time is better idea but this is my first "full conversion" mod. I've had to check every aspect of the game just to know if I'm capable of finishing the project. One thing that I still haven't tried are units' animations. I've read all guides but I still don't fully get it. It's absolutely the last thing on my "to do" list.
I'm happy you are still working on this project, Stazi. Can't wait to see how far you can push the engine for this mod.
Are you doing anything with mithril?
Are you doing anything with mithril?
Mithril deposits will give you access to the higher level armory which results in better armor upgrades. It will be the 2nd best armor available. Only elves (but not wood elves) will have access to the best "gold" quality armors. The idea is: (+4) elite eleven armor, (+2) dwarven mithril armor, (+1) steel plate armor. Should mithril have any influence on trade? IIRC it has never been mined in sufficient quantities and dwarves never sell it. Let me know if I'm wrong.
Generally, +4 and +2 armor upgrades will be very rare. Mithril armors will be directly connected with provinces (Moria, Lonely Mountain). Elven armors will be available for elves in provinces to the west of the Misty Mountains (I'll post an improved map with province breakdown soon). Armory branch will be separate from other technology branches. It won't give you access to new units - just armor bonuses (maybe a little morale too). This way AI will still have access to all units even when it'll lose its "core" provinces (and eventually armor bonuses).
Other ideas about mithril or anything else? Feel free to post them.
Stazi, I'd be happy to contribute my thoughts about the mod, as well as feedback - but shouldn't you have a proper "mod thread" of your own these days? Stazi's Reimagined Middle Earth Mod or something like that? Anyways, I've reread the LotR compendium and I'm currently rereading The Silmarillion, so I should be able to offer suggestions here and there.
Mithril deposits will give you access to the higher level armory which results in better armor upgrades. It will be the 2nd best armor available. Only elves (but not wood elves) will have access to the best "gold" quality armors. The idea is: (+4) elite eleven armor, (+2) dwarven mithril armor, (+1) steel plate armor. Should mithril have any influence on trade? IIRC it has never been mined in sufficient quantities and dwarves never sell it. Let me know if I'm wrong.
I would say no to trade with mithril. As you said, the dwarves hoarded it, and gave gifts of armor, but not the secrets to forging it. I'm assuming mithril is a resource? For accuracy (and if you haven't already), maybe make the armory that grants the bonus dwarven only. IIRC, I don't think mithril was used with weapons so an attack bonus isn't applicable in the canon.
I like the armor types, but is the elven bonus too high? Not sure how this will affect fatigue.
Generally, +4 and +2 armor upgrades will be very rare. Mithril armors will be directly connected with provinces (Moria, Lonely Mountain). Elven armors will be available for elves in provinces to the west of the Misty Mountains (I'll post an improved map with province breakdown soon). Armory branch will be separate from other technology branches. It won't give you access to new units - just armor bonuses (maybe a little morale too). This way AI will still have access to all units even when it'll lose its "core" provinces (and eventually armor bonuses).
Tying bonuses and troop access together in one building has never sat well with me.
Other ideas about mithril or anything else? Feel free to post them.
I agree with Durango, this needs a new thread. When you start pushing out more info and teaser images feel free to create one and I'll sticky it.
I would say no to trade with mithril. As you said, the dwarves hoarded it, and gave gifts of armor, but not the secrets to forging it. I'm assuming mithril is a resource?
yes
For accuracy (and if you haven't already), maybe make the armory that grants the bonus dwarven only. IIRC, I don't think mithril was used with weapons so an attack bonus isn't applicable in the canon.
Only dwarves will be able to build Dwarven Armory which gives mithril armor bonus. I didn't think much about attack bonus but I'm sure mithril will have nothing to do with it.
Should other races have any use of mithril? Let me know what you think.
I like the armor types, but is the elven bonus too high? Not sure how this will affect fatigue.
It'll surely affect fatigue but that's how it works. I can't do much about it. There are only a few desert provinces that will hurt those heavy armorer units. Harad, Khand are formerly sand desert provinces. Mordor is rock desert. btw does snow affect heavy armored units (fatigue)?
Bonus too high?.. hmm.. as huth said elves (due to their accumulated knowledge and magic skills) make armors far more superior to even those made from mithril. Mithril armors are only that good because of material used, not any highly sophisticated technology.
I agree with Durango, this needs a new thread. When you start pushing out more info and teaser images feel free to create one and I'll sticky it.
Thanks for the suggestion guys. I'll make an official mod thread when I'll have something more to show. Please, let me stay here a while more. I hope it won't stop you from posting comments and ideas. As always any feedback/criticism is welcomed.
Only dwarves will be able to build Dwarven Armory which gives mithril armor bonus. I didn't think much about attack bonus but I'm sure mithril will have nothing to do with it.
Should other races have any use of mithril? Let me know what you think.
Elves used mithril for craftwork and ithildin. The LotR wikia (http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Mithril) mentions mithril weapons but I don't ever recall reading that.
Some random thoughts in the evening...
How about having several campaigns with different maps? What strikes me when reading Tolkien books is how so much time is covered, and how the land changes over time. Numenor rises and falls, Angband gets destroyed along with Beleriand (westernmost middle earth), the immortal lands is veiled/unveiled etc. Perhaps something could be done with this dynamic. And the factions could be changed and have their power rise and fall as well. Elves having more influence in the second age for example. I would certainly be interested in rendering the maps, unless you are already content with yours.
This would also make the mod unique among it's counterparts. At least it would set it apart from the immensely popular TATW mod for MTW2...
Some random thoughts in the evening...
How about having several campaigns with different maps? What strikes me when reading Tolkien books is how so much time is covered, and how the land changes over time. Numenor rises and falls, Angband gets destroyed along with Beleriand (westernmost middle earth), the immortal lands is veiled/unveiled etc. Perhaps something could be done with this dynamic. And the factions could be changed and have their power rise and fall as well. Elves having more influence in the second age for example. I would certainly be interested in rendering the maps, unless you are already content with yours.
This would also make the mod unique among it's counterparts. At least it would set it apart from the immensely popular TATW mod for MTW2...
Yes, it's great idea but..new map/era means: new factions, units and animations, buildings, provinces' properties, the whole game balance. It's nearly totally new mod so...a lot of work and time. For now, I'm going to finish LOTR era mod with units and battle maps done by Middle-Earth team. Creating new battle maps with custom settlements (like in TATW) is especially hard because MTW's 3D engine is absolutely unaccessible. All you can do is adding existing models in different scale and with different textures. And you can only do it via in-game editor (and text editing properties files) cause CA made their own 3d file format unrecognized by any popular 3d modeling software.
I'd love to make all campaigns you mentioned but I have only two hands and days are only 24 hours long. I'll think about new campaigns after I'll finish the ME campaign. Of course, your maps will be very warmly welcomed:bow:.
Yes, it's great idea but..new map/era means: new factions, units and animations, buildings, provinces' properties, the whole game balance. It's nearly totally new mod so...a lot of work and time. For now, I'm going to finish LOTR era mod with units and battle maps done by Middle-Earth team.
Yeah, it's easy to dig too deep and generate too much feature creep. Time and energy must be spent on what matters most, so that the work can actually be finished. On one hand, it's somewhat easier to have different eras in a Tolkien setting, due to peoples and cultures not changing that much (elves once more are especially constant over the ages) and units being reusable a lot. Orcs, trolls, men, dwarves are all there from the first age to the fourth... but the units themselves might not be as modular as the vanilla MTW ones (shield and weapons separate). I've seen the units, and they seem to be captured whole from their source material and turned into sprite anims.
Creating new battle maps with custom settlements (like in TATW) is especially hard because MTW's 3D engine is absolutely unaccessible. All you can do is adding existing models in different scale and with different textures. And you can only do it via in-game editor (and text editing properties files) cause CA made their own 3d file format unrecognized by any popular 3d modeling software.
What is probably the wisest thing to do, is to delete some buildings from the battle maps that don't really fit in - such as the eastern euro types that are not very Tolkienesque. Others are OK, and to have rock desert as Mordor is pretty easily done by deleting palm trees and buildings. I've thought about changing the resolution of the textures in MTW to higher res and quality, but it's a lot of work (over 700 files for ground textures alone) so it's not realistic. And it looks weird to have some objects have better res than others.
What's probably most important is changing ground textures for Mordor, and maybe alter the skybox a bit to make it fit most climates. As of now it's a beautiful day in the black lands and one can most certainly simply walk into it...
I'd love to make all campaigns you mentioned but I have only two hands and days are only 24 hours long. I'll think about new campaigns after I'll finish the ME campaign. Of course, your maps will be very warmly welcomed:bow:.
Yup, we all have stuff to do and a mod is not top priority.
Mapwise I'll maybe gather some preliminary material to work with and sketch something out. I'm leaning towards either a very parchment oriented look or a detailed naturalistic feel with interesting details.
What's probably most important is changing ground textures for Mordor, and maybe alter the skybox a bit to make it fit most climates. As of now it's a beautiful day in the black lands and one can most certainly simply walk into it...
Does it look like a beautiful spring day for you?:cool:
Spring. Sand storm around Black Gate.
http://images46.fotosik.pl/1333/d42e04a9342f6111.jpg
Gorgoroth near Mt. Doom. Spring. Clear sky.
http://images46.fotosik.pl/1333/0a679e0a84205e82.jpg
About other things - you're right.
http://memeorama.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/mother-of-God-Meme-Rage-Face.jpg
I haven't actually played the mod, so I didn't know it was this developed. Now I understand why you wanted to continue with this...
Expect a PM.
Hello, Stazi! I'm glad you're working on this great unfinished project. I may not be able to offer much help right now as I'm doing the second version of Viking Invasion III but if you like any part of my work, i.e unit skins, you may use them.. There will be a lot of skins, if all goes well. I think some of the units like Rohan riders/horsemen, Dundeland axemen/swordsmen and others should look better. All the best, friend!
Hello, Stazi! I'm glad you're working on this great unfinished project. I may not be able to offer much help right now as I'm doing the second version of Viking Invasion III but if you like any part of my work, i.e unit skins, you may use them.. There will be a lot of skins, if all goes well.
I hope everything will go well, especially for you and your country. Thanks for letting me use your stuff.
I think some of the units like Rohan riders/horsemen, Dundeland axemen/swordsmen and others should look better.
You're right. There is someone around who will probably take care of visual part of the mod :beam:.
All the best, friend!
Thanks! For you too.
The Blind King of Bohemia
02-24-2012, 19:51
Does it look like a beautiful spring day for you?:cool:
Spring. Sand storm around Black Gate.
http://images46.fotosik.pl/1333/d42e04a9342f6111.jpg
Gorgoroth near Mt. Doom. Spring. Clear sky.
http://images46.fotosik.pl/1333/0a679e0a84205e82.jpg
About other things - you're right.
Mate they look incredible. Kudos
atheniandp
09-02-2012, 13:32
Hello everyone,
I just registered onto this site to look through and voice my support for great MTW mods which are unavailable at the TWC. I've simply been blown away with your work here! It's been a while since there's been any updates though. Really hope you guys can pull through with this monumental task.
Welcome to the Org, atheniandp! ~:wave:
atheniandp
09-02-2012, 19:09
Thank you! I never knew there was such a wealth of material here so I never bothered to stop by, let alone make an account. I'll definitely be posting around the MTW forums, and I'm particularly interested in seeing how a fantasy mod for this game would turn out.
The use of the Battle For Middle Earth map is nothing short of brilliant. Not that these custom models are any less impressive.
cegorach
02-16-2016, 21:53
Before the start of the campaign each province gets the unique and indestructible landmark building (multiple copies of "forest clearing" from VI). I've discovered that a building to be indestructible only need to use "forest clearing.bif" as its icon file name (3rd column in BUILD_PROD file). So, all landmarks share the same icon and description but Info Pic can be different. If you nullify the description's text and imprint the whole description directly on the info pic you can have unlimited number of different indestructible buildings. To know what is the role of anyone of these buildings, you only need to right click on it.
That is quite, quite stunning discovery. So many possibilities, incredible.
So many possibilities, incredible.
Exactly! My first idea was to put on in each province and add an description/story for some additional flavor.
The other is to use it as building called "foundations". You know how conquering system work in MTW and how buildings are razed and decrease in level. So, we can add the indestructible foundations building as a requirement for each level of castle so a player won't need to start building the whole castle chain from the ground up (many people find it very time consuming and annoying). If there were a citadel in a province before, player doesn't have to start from a keep or any lower level castle but he can already build a citadel, then fortress.
I'm curious what else you can think of? :sneaky:
cegorach
02-17-2016, 11:57
I thought about more developed structures - much like you, but not only about these.
I've used forest clearing for large trade centers, but now it is possible to name each of them separately...
Some ideas I had include for example political structures e.g. Swiss Confederacy with massive decrease to loyalty forcing anybody who occupies (and destroys a fair number of various structures, often rising loyalty) Switzerland to keep a large garrison in the area and lead to a loyalist/peasant rising. Obviously it could give something to the Swiss, but it is a question of choice.
Since each such structure can be unique there are plenty of choices, but first I'll want to add at least what I have planned before.
macsen rufus
06-15-2016, 21:28
Hi guys,
Stazi, this is as Cegorach says, a really, really stunning discovery. It's the Holy Grail for me, and I've been playing with it for my Ancient mod (which is now back in development after a few years).
First off, there is ONE limit - it seems you can only(!!) have 50 such buildings, trying to build any more causes a CTD. That said, my plan was (and it's been mostly successful) is to make an indesructible building for every province. Alas the limit of 50 cuts in - I have 56 provinces on my current map, so it fell just short....
Anyway what I have done is create 50 buidings in the build_prod, all with the Forest Clearing local string. The labels (ie build_prod name) I have used are province names, and they are all non-producers and unique. They have a build requirement of the top tier castle (just to keep them out of the build panel during the game). For the review-panel icon I just saved a bif with 'the purest green' (sorry, couldn't resist a Blackadder reference there...) ie transparent, and I made an info_pic bif the same (336x448 of transparency), called it 'BLANK' and referenced to that for the info_pic string. I set the name and description translations for Forest Clearing to " " so nothing will show on the parchment.
This is how it looks in-game:
https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l148/macsen_rufus/Ancient/indestructible.jpg
The build_prod looks like this:
0 CYRENAICA "Forest Clearing" "NON_PRODUCER, UNIQUE" "100" 1 {CASTLE10} "BLANK" etc
0 ILLYRIA "Forest Clearing" "NON_PRODUCER, UNIQUE" "100" 1 {CASTLE10} "BLANK" etc
0 LIBYA "Forest Clearing" "NON_PRODUCER, UNIQUE" "100" 1 {CASTLE10} "BLANK" etc
0 MACEDONIA "Forest Clearing" "NON_PRODUCER, UNIQUE" "100" 1 {CASTLE10} "BLANK" etc
0 CRETE "Forest Clearing" "NON_PRODUCER, UNIQUE" "100" 1 {CASTLE10} "BLANK" etc
0 AGRIANA "Forest Clearing" "NON_PRODUCER, UNIQUE" "100" 1 {CASTLE10} "BLANK" etc
................. for 50 entries
and I build them all in the startpos:
MakeBuilding:: ID_LANDREG_01 CYRENAICA
MakeBuilding:: ID_LANDREG_02 ILLYRIA
MakeBuilding:: ID_LANDREG_03 LIBYA
MakeBuilding:: ID_LANDREG_04 MACEDONIA
MakeBuilding:: ID_LANDREG_05 CRETE
MakeBuilding:: ID_LANDREG_06 AGRIANA
................. for 50 entries
This means now I can do the (previously) impossible and force some buildings to be available only in certain provinces without using up any 'resource' slots, simply by adding the province name as a build requirement.
Taking it even further, it will be possible to have a totally different tech-tree in different provinces! How cool is that?!?!? You can for instance stop churches being built in provinces that have a Muslim culture, just by setting up the build requirements to exclude those Muslim provinces.
Then a further thought: so far I've set these up with no upgrades, but I think it might be possible (still mulling it over...) to find a way to force a province into choosing between two alternative paths of development, but I haven't got there yet...
Other applications: of course the build_prod entries for each of these buildings (I call them 'province resources', for want of anything better) can be edited seperately for things like mercenary magnetism, faith propagation, even income and troop upgrades such as morale, weapons and armour. And there's no reason you couldn't attach offices to these buildings either, so it could be an indestructible way to hand out scrolls to selected factions only...
Really, there is so much you can do with this. Admittedly, if you have a campaign map with a lot of provinces you can't make a province resource for every single one of them, but you know that 50 of them can get some very special treatment!
One last note: when adding them to the build_prod file, put them at the bottom, so the 'invisible' building in the review panel is always at the end and doesn't leave a gap between other buildings.
Stazi, you're a genius for finding this - many digital beers to you :medievalcheers: :medievalcheers: :medievalcheers:
dimitrios the samian
06-16-2016, 10:55
Im glad you noticed this Mac .... & moreso that you can implement it into the Ancient scenarios :beam:
I hope both stazi & Ceg , eventually implement it also
cheers guys
Hey guys! I hope you're doing well Stazi. I wonder if this mod is still being developed. I'm willing to help if needed.
P.S I found the metw files on the metw main thread. You just have to look hard.
Falconsball1993
09-12-2019, 02:07
Stazi, do you by chance have a Beleriand campaign map?
Before the start of the campaign each province gets the unique and indestructible landmark building (multiple copies of "forest clearing" from VI). I've discovered that a building to be indestructible only need to use "forest clearing.bif" as its icon file name (3rd column in BUILD_PROD file). So, all landmarks share the same icon and description but Info Pic can be different. If you nullify the description's text and imprint the whole description directly on the info pic you can have unlimited number of different indestructible buildings. To know what is the role of anyone of these buildings, you only need to right click on it. So, you can make trade route buildings dependent on these landmarks and choose which province belongs to the route.
I think it's really useful idea because you can add whole variety of buildings' traits (faith propagation, happiness bonus/penalty, mercenary magnetism, etc.) and they will work as the province's parameters.This even solve the problem of units valour bonus which stops the AI from further developing the province when the unit's requirements are met. It works even better cause the possible range of the bonus is 0-9 now. And every province with its own picture and description is really nice feature, isn't it?
:shame: ooops. That's why I'm always begging for comments. Thank you very much! I was so focused on implementation of this feature that I forgot about this "little" side effect. It makes this method useless for land trade routes but I think It still makes sense for rivers.
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