Ασια των βαρβαρων - Asia ton Barbaron

[jirisys]

Greetings.
Europa Barbarorum Fans.

We have traveled to the coldest places in the Tibetan Range. Assaulted nomadic caravans. Rushed through Argyraspidai formations. Stole Nabatu gold. Desecrated Buddhist temples. Collapsed nomadic altars. And ran towards Parthian Cataphracts.

Yet. We have found it. We have found the only thing that we need in this world! We have found the fountain of life my friends!

However we decided to use it all on this mod. Now there's no more life-water for you. Sorry.

We present to you...


http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5011/5521093862_f02f8b97ea_b.jpg

Ασια των βαρβαρων - Asia ton Barbaron

Timeframe:
247 BCE - 100 BCE

Factions:
*Arche Seleukeia
Seleukeia
(Seleucid Empire)

*Ptolemaioi
Ptolemaioi
(Ptolemaic dynasty)

*Basileion tou Pontou
Pontos
(Kingdom of Pontos)

*Basileion tis Baktria
Baktria
(Kingdom of Baktria)

*Hayastan
Hayastan
(Armenia)

*Basileion tis Atropatene
Atropatene
(Kingdom of Atropatene)

*Maurya Saamratjya
Maurya
(Mauryan empire)

*Panti-yar
Pandya
(Pandyan Dynasty)

*Satavahana
Shatavahana
(Satavahanan Dynasty, hording capable, emergent 230)

*Pergamou
Pergamon
(Pergamon)

*Basileion tou Kimmerikou Bosphorou
Bosphoros
(Kingdom of the Kimmerian Bosphoros)

*As'Sab'yn wal'Jau
Sab’yn
(Sabaean kingdom)

*Malkuta Nabatu
Nabatu
(Nabatean Kingdom)

*Sauromatai
Sauromatai
(Sarmatians, hording capable)

*Saka Rauka
Saka Rauka
(Saka lords, hording capable)

*Yuezhi
Yuezhi
(Yuezhi, hording capable)

*Ashkanian
Ashkanian
(Parthian empire, hording capable)

*Wusun
Wusun
(Wusun, hording capable)

*Xiongnu
Xiongnu
(Xiongnu, hording capable, no cities)

*Senatvs Popvlvsque Romanvs
Romani
(Roman Republic, emergent 190)

Map:
https://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6271/asiatonbarbaronmapcropp.png

Members:
-Leaders:
jirisys
beos777

-2D art:
jirisys

-Historians:
beos777
Gotenus
svrajm
Hellenic Blade
mirionis9
Alkimachos
Athkara
Drtad

-Special thanks:
mamik_yev_konak (vartan)
gamegeek2
Cute Wolf (Strategos Lykos)

We hope you will support and join our team so we may actually finish it. We will update the thread constantly so stay tuned.

Thank you for your support and assistance beforehand.

Sincerely, Jirisys, Beos777 and the whole AtB community


NOTE: THIS POST MAY NOT BE REPRINTED WITHOUT PERMISSION.

~Jirisys (Ασια των βαρβαρων)

[jirisys]

You can visit and register on our development forum; where you are welcomed to have a good time and chat with either us, or many other fans of this mod. However the development area will be kept secret to many so that we may surprise you; nonetheless you can still post any ideas or suggestions for the mod in the respective section.

Here's the link: Development Forum (http://asiatonbarbaron.freeforums.org/index.php)

Regards

~Jirisys (AtB)

[gamegeek2]

I'll have a map with my concept up soon.

[Finn MacCumhail]

In my opinion the true AtB is here https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?94001-Asia-ton-Barbaron-disscusion-thread

The original team spent 3 or 4 years on it, and they have the moral right to AtB franchise. Dead or not, it is their child.

But the idea to wake the project is great!

[jirisys]

In my opinion the true AtB is here https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?94001-Asia-ton-Barbaron-disscusion-thread

The original team spent 3 or 4 years on it, and they have the moral right to AtB franchise. Dead or not, it is their child.

But the idea to wake the project is great!

Second AtB Leader:


Yeah, Myself and many others left it unattended. I just completed whatever the Indian factions needed. All those can be found in the Dev forum of ATB, you need anything more I can surely help you with information. I'm busy with final year college project so cant mod anymore :(

You may retain the name.. And you may also retain the Indian faction units with credits. Appreciating your work.(...) And you may take admin of the forum too. I myself will visit and go through your work and provide support and Info for Indian regions.

Telling me that the "true" AtB is the other one is offensive. We are not trying to bury it and putting our own. We're trying to revive it and give it some renewals.

~Jirisys ()

[jirisys]

Development forum link is up, second post.

~Jirisys ()

[G. Septimus]

I demand a reparation of the map since the link is Broken! :yes:

EDIT: Nevermind
(...)

[jirisys]

I demand a reparation of the map since the link is Broken! :yes:

No it isn't... I can see it normally.

(...)

~Jirisys ()

[Beefy187]

Modders do it for free, despite having to invest lots of times and effort.
Whether they are "true" or not doesn't matter. I think they should be respected for their work.

I'll keep waiting for this :bow:

[Populus Romanus]

One problem I see emerging with this if it is finished is that there is a gigantic hole in Tibet and Indochina. This would be a similar problem to the whole empty eastern europe problem in EB.

[jirisys]

One problem I see emerging with this if it is finished is that there is a gigantic hole in Tibet and Indochina. This would be a similar problem to the whole empty eastern europe problem in EB.

The wusun migrated trough there... They should be close to that position. Besides, either the xiongnu, yuezhi or wusun could go through there. It's not that empty with 3 nomadic factions trying to get the hell away from the xiongnu

~Jirisys ()

[Populus Romanus]

There should at least be a Tibetan culture, though. Really, they were a highly unique and very influential culture. It is necessary for historical accuracy for these reasons to include a Tibetan culture.

[Ludens]

Sonic, jirisys, please take your personal differences elsewhere.

If required, I can remove these posts from the thread.

[jirisys]

There should at least be a Tibetan culture, though. Really, they were a highly unique and very influential culture. It is necessary for historical accuracy for these reasons to include a Tibetan culture.

Tibetan culture... Ok... But what about the tribes themselves? we cannot give them whole control of all the tribes since they were not united. Eremos could be the solution, but we will have tibetan units and towns for that matter.

~Jirisys ()

[Cute Wolf]

well? if you meet everyone's demand of culture, eventually the 7 culture slots won't be enough :grin:

BTW, after considering the facts, If you include Tibetan culture, you should as well include China, and then the map would be very2 large

[jirisys]

well? if you meet everyone's demand of culture, eventually the 7 culture slots won't be enough :grin:

BTW, after considering the facts, If you include Tibetan culture, you should as well include China, and then the map would be very2 large

They aren't...

~Jirisys ()

[Skullheadhq]

now, asia without china is not asia! I demand Asia! :furious2:
with Chinese

HINT : Look at Tanit's post in ol AtB thread

[jirisys]

now, asia without china is not asia! I demand Asia! :furious2:
with Chinese

HINT : Look at Tanit's post in ol AtB thread

Culture slot full; AtB Malaysia, Tibet and North China = EB eastern europe, faction slot full, possible landmass crash ratio, Asia meant from Anatolia to India (the known world), they didn't know what china was, uninfluential on the west, religion slot full, China and the subswquent regions that would come with it asks too many units, unnecesary regions would be put in place, etc.

Really, I'd rather have a EB: Han and not the Han in EB: AtB. Their diversity and military cannot be compiled into a few units and a lot of regions.

I hope I did not offend anyone, we want to have the whole world in the map if we could.

~Jirisys (Sadly... The real world is non-compatible with the landmass ratio of RTW :clown: :laugh4:)

[gamegeek2]

Skullhead, it seems we have something in common, I have a proposal for this.....

[Hax]

they didn't know what china was, uninfluential on the west,

Uhuh. Yep, it's not like they invented paper or anything. Uninfluential on the west, and you want to lead this project? Good luck.

EDIT: I mean "didn't know what china was". Roman and Chinese ambassadors actually met in Parthia in 146 BC between 123 and 88 BC:


“The long reign of Mithadates II (123-87 B.C.) is significant [also] as in that during it Parthia first came into contact with both China and Rome.” - The Legacy of Persia, “Persia and the Ancient World” p.25.

[Lazy O]

So yea, Id like to hear how many culture slots the Indian Factions use :D :D :D :D :D

[jirisys]

Uhuh. Yep, it's not like they invented paper or anything. Uninfluential on the west, and you want to lead this project? Good luck.

Don't insult me. Yes, they were somewhat influential on the east... But how are you going to put it in an RTW mod and make that influence important at all? Besides some text description and everything, that's your case for Han China? Also, they didn't have a war with any western kingdom (except those who migrated there... i.e. the wusun?) and the records of westerners actually having known them is very late.


EDIT: I mean "didn't know what china was". Roman and Chinese ambassadors actually met in Parthia in 146 BC between 123 and 88 BC

And what's our start date sweetie? 247 BCE Right? Besides it's parthia only... Meaning at this point (almost in the end of the time period) we would have actually 2 factions that knew about china! Oh my jolly! Really, even if you eliminate those two points, I have many more to not include Han china in it.

I have a vague historical account for both east of sogdiane, the arabian peninsula and the axum and below. Also my country's educational system doesn't really care for those cultures at all, so there's my bias.

EDIT:


So yea, Id like to hear how many culture slots the Indian Factions use :D :D :D :D :D

One. Sadly the roman culture must be kept as they will be emergent.

Armenian and Atrapatene have their own culture as well, no more arabian stereotype sounding spies... That was awful.

~Jirisys ()

[Hax]

Meaning at this point (almost in the end of the time period) we would have actually 2 factions that knew about china! Oh my jolly!

You can't honestly be saying this, can ya? There was extensive contact between the Parthian and Chinese (Han China, make no mistake), including several trade agreements. In 101 BC the Han dynasty conquered Ferghana, in essence borderingthe Indo-Greek kingdom. The fact that even the Romans knew about China says something, don't you agree? I don't think that the presence of Chinese traders in Marakanda (Samarkand) would be a strange sight.


Don't insult me. Yes, they were somewhat influential on the east... But how are you going to put it in an RTW mod and make that influence important at all? Besides some text description and everything, that's your case for Han China?

Right, you know, I used to be the researcher on the Persianite factions for AtB, you do know that? I'm not interested in seeing Han China in any mod, but you're just not making sense here. There just isn't enough room, but don't go going on about how they had little influence/nobody knew them. Thank you.

[gamegeek2]

This is my map so far, I think it has 60-70 cities so far. Hax, what do you think?

https://img220.imageshack.us/img220/6808/startingregions.jpg

We obviously need more cities in India, some more steppe cities, and maybe a couple more in China

[Finn MacCumhail]

I kinda person non grata in this thread, but want to share some ideas. Adding Han Empire would be wonderful. Satavahana might be replaced with strong scripted rebels for this sake.

Come on, it would be fun to bring China troops under Piramids and face there Roman Army.

Cultures Magnificent 7: Hellenistic, Arab, Nomad, Indian, Roman, China, Eastern. 7 slots would be enough if Armeni and Antropatena would share Eastern Culture as Parthia does. As a last resort, if you would despair need slot for some Ethiopian culture, you can merge Roman and Hellenistic, as AI Roman interface doesn't make much sence.


Also my country's educational system doesn't really care for those cultures at all, so there's my bias.

it is not a reason not to include faction.

possible map outline. Almost no Europe, no mainland Greece. That is why Roman invasion time shifted to later period. Asia till Pacific Ocean.

https://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz332/Jegwettnorskbaralit/Untitled-1-8.jpg


EDIT

perhapse this map of Han Empire would help http://www.anu.edu.au/asianstudies/decrespigny/peace_maps/map01.pdf

[jirisys]

You can't honestly be saying this, can ya? There was extensive contact between the Parthian and Chinese (Han China, make no mistake), including several trade agreements. In 101 BC the Han dynasty conquered Ferghana, in essence borderingthe Indo-Greek kingdom. The fact that even the Romans knew about China says something, don't you agree? I don't think that the presence of Chinese traders in Marakanda (Samarkand) would be a strange sight.

I don't think the silly wording of the phrase convinced you of my facetiousness. In 101 BC, that's one year before the end of the mod. I'd rather have chine with gamegeek's idea, but still. There's still vast room to make some changes in the factions. Wouldn't you say. I'm not currently going to stick out into the same 20 factions you got there. Sunga was removed and replaced by pandya and Satavahana was made emergent. You know, there's still room for change.


Right, you know, I used to be the researcher on the Persianite factions for AtB, you do know that? I'm not interested in seeing Han China in any mod, but you're just not making sense here. There just isn't enough room, but don't go going on about how they had little influence/nobody knew them. Thank you.

Ok... They had a tad of influence and ALMOST nobody knew them :clown:


I kinda person non grata in this thread, but want to share some ideas. Adding Han Empire would be wonderful. Satavahana might be replaced with strong scripted rebels for this sake.

Come on, it would be fun to bring China troops under Piramids and face there Roman Army.

Cultures Magnificent 7: Hellenistic, Arab, Nomad, Indian, Roman, China, Eastern. 7 slots would be enough if Armeni and Antropatena would share Eastern Culture as Parthia does. As a last resort, if you would despair need slot for some Ethiopian culture, you can merge Roman and Hellenistic, as AI Roman interface doesn't make much sence.

Sense*. Why would we have an Ethiopian Culture? Those could be merged into a "semitic" culture (as most of them were of semitic origin... I guess? :inquisitive:) Romans as hellenistic culture; IIRC, wouldn't have their own barrack building for legions.
No, the point of the Armenian and Atrapatene culture would be to make them special and have a different feeling that they didn't have in EB. It's like making the latin-conquered gauls the same culture as the greek ones. If needed they would be merged.
Then what is Chersonesos and Pergamon's culture? They weren't so "Makedonians" as the Diadochoi, they were more of a classical greek-type culture.



it is not a reason not to include faction.

No, I addressed my lack of knowledge in the subject, not my wilingness to add a faction.


possible map outline. Almost no Europe, no mainland Greece. That is why Roman invasion time shifted to later period. Asia till Pacific Ocean.

You just expanded the current map further east. And you want to add Japan? That would make another culture fight...

I am not here to insult you, just try to clarify my point.

~Jirisys ()

[Hax]

You just expanded the current map further east. And you want to add Japan? That would make another culture fight...

Look again. It clearly ends at Korea.


They had a tad of influence and ALMOST nobody knew them

Did you even read? The Romans had personal contact. I wouldn't be surprised if basically all the factions in the game (save perhaps Nabataea, Saba and Aksum) knew of them.

[Finn MacCumhail]

Instead of “Ethiopian” you can include “Classical Greek culture”. Romans can hire legions not in barracks but in Governments 1,2,3,4, or in Blacksmiths or Libraries, wherever you want, if you use some descr_buildings magic.

Visually culture is Portraits and Architecture. In game mechanics culture causes unrest. But you don’t want to stop AI Roman faction from dominating, isn’t it? They must be ramm faction from west. Romans would be AI only, so, why do they need own culture?

Armenia and Antropatena with Parthia share Achemenidian legacy and Idea of Great Persia. That is why they can be merged. Also, they would have same architecture and portraits as Parthia, so, no need in special culture. Oh wait, it's not NOM, this starts earlier. In this case Parthia can be Nomad (as in EB), and Antropatena with Armenia Eastern.

No, Japan needs no culture slot (Even if some parts of it would be included.). It would be Eremos, as some other lands (for which no cities would be found).

[jirisys]

Look again. It clearly ends at Korea.



Did you even read? The Romans had personal contact. I wouldn't be surprised if basically all the factions in the game (save perhaps Nabataea, Saba and Aksum) knew of them.

Oh! I missed that.

I was joking.


Instead of “Ethiopian” you can include “Classical Greek culture”. Romans can hire legions not in barracks but in Governments 1,2,3,4, or in Blacksmiths or Libraries, wherever you want, if you use some descr_buildings magic.

Visually culture is Portraits and Architecture. In game mechanics culture causes unrest. But you don’t want to stop AI Roman faction from dominating, isn’t it? They must be ramm faction from west. Romans would be AI only, so, why do they need own culture?

Armenia and Antropatena with Parthia share Achemenidian legacy and Idea of Great Persia. That is why they can be merged. Also, they would have same architecture and portraits as Parthia, so, no need in special culture. Oh wait, it's not NOM, this starts earlier. In this case Parthia can be Nomad (as in EB), and Antropatena with Armenia Eastern.

No, Japan needs no culture slot (Even if some parts of it would be included.). It would be Eremos, as some other lands (for which no cities would be found).

If you are so inclined to make proposals, go join the dev forum and I will grant you Guest Team Member access. Otherwise I have not much of a desire to go for it without team member support. Also, this is still in the early stages of development. We have still lots of road to cover and many paths will takes us down to other roads. If you want to contribute; there's a boule in the dev forum. I'd rather keep development concepts there and not here.

~Jirisys ()

[gamegeek2]

Did you even read? The Romans had personal contact. I wouldn't be surprised if basically all the factions in the game (save perhaps Nabataea, Saba and Aksum) knew of them.

I thought you called yourself the Mad Arab?

The Nabateans were merchant-kings, who were also good sailors, and doubtless participated heavily in the Indian trade in the 1st century CE; where doubtless they would encounter Chinese. Axum GREW off the trade to India. Saba, maybe not; but by the 1st century CE Saba was almost wiped out.

BTW my map is recommended for 30 CE. I chose this date because it's about the start-up date for the Kushan Empire, and some of the Western Kshatrapas

There is a very good reason the Chinese people today are called the Han Chinese. It's because Han China is, fairly easily in my opinion, the greatest of the Chinese dynasties. It was under them and the Qin that they Chinese people really first became united under the efficient bureaucracies of a well-run Confucian state.

[gamegeek2]

Factions for the 30 CE map:

--- Nomad ---
Xiongnu
Wusun

--- Sino-Korean ---
Han Chao
Buyeo
Koguryo

--- Indo-Iranian ---
State of Samarkand
Kushan Empire
Western Kshatrapas

--- South Indian ---
Satavahanas
Cholas
Pandyas
Ruhunas

--- South Asian ---
Funan

Any other suggested factions?

[Hax]

I thought you called yourself the Mad Arab?

The Nabateans were merchant-kings, who were also good sailors, and doubtless participated heavily in the Indian trade in the 1st century CE; where doubtless they would encounter Chinese. Axum GREW off the trade to India. Saba, maybe not; but by the 1st century CE Saba was almost wiped out.

Haha, I said I wasn't sure, that may come have across as a bit odd though. Of course they would have met in Indian trade, I'm just not sure whether there was any direct political contact between the two states, rather than via an intermediary, in this case India.

[gamegeek2]

Regardless which proposal do you favor?

[Populus Romanus]

If you are going to extend the map all the way to China, then there really is no excuse not to have a Tibetan culture. Also, did I misread or has this mod's start date been changed?

[gamegeek2]

How much info do we have on Tibetans at this time? THen again not much on Funan either I guess.

[jirisys]

If you are going to extend the map all the way to China, then there really is no excuse not to have a Tibetan culture. Also, did I misread or has this mod's start date been changed?

We are not, gamegeek proposals' don't speak for the mod itself.

247-100 is ours.


How much info do we have on Tibetans at this time? THen again not much on Funan either I guess.

Could you please go to the darned dev forum and post it there. We could use it as a late-campaign concept if we even finish this one, but to avoid confusing the forumgoers, please put a warning and/or spoilers in it.

I appretiate the help too. Thank you.

Regards.

~Jirisys ()

[gamegeek2]

How will it be a late-game version if it's on a completely different map? That doesn't make any sense at all.

[jirisys]

How will it be a late-game version if it's on a completely different map? That doesn't make any sense at all.

Another modfolder? We'll think something out hahahah

~Jirisys ()

[Lazy O]

If only one culture slot is usd for INdia I cannot see why One cant be used for China.
Lets see....

Hellenics

Semitic

Iranian

Nomad

Indian

Han

And space for 1 more

[jirisys]

If only one culture slot is usd for INdia I cannot see why One cant be used for China.
Lets see....

Hellenics

Semitic

Iranian

Nomad

Indian

Han

And space for 1 more

You forget Romans, and western (non makedonian) hellenic, they can't be united in a single one.

~Jirisys ()

[Cute Wolf]

You forget Romans, and western (non makedonian) hellenic, they can't be united in a single one.

~Jirisys ()

well, let's just ditch the Romans alltogether, put hellenic under a single culture since the scope of this mod is far bigger than europe. In larger scale, another people won't see much differences between greeks and romans.

just like what I see as an South East Asian here, I think Latin Americans compared with North Americans, is virtually the same, and I think Japanese compared with Chinese are far different.

If it focus in Asia, just put Greco-Romans into one culture, that'll be fine

[gamegeek2]

Wolf, can you comment on my proposal on the forums?

[jirisys]

well, let's just ditch the Romans alltogether, put hellenic under a single culture since the scope of this mod is far bigger than europe. In larger scale, another people won't see much differences between greeks and romans.

just like what I see as an South East Asian here, I think Latin Americans compared with North Americans, is virtually the same, and I think Japanese compared with Chinese are far different.

If it focus in Asia, just put Greco-Romans into one culture, that'll be fine

So you want to help NOW?

You know, that is frankly insulting, first off, we are mediterranean-descent, they are of saxonic descent, we are mostly socialistic and with far more inner diversity and they are capitalistic and with diversity because of diferent ethnic groups that are segregated from the main ethnia. You do forget about brazilians and amazon, mayas and mapuches. (...)

You are regarding asia as simply china and japan, you do not understand that asia minor is also asia. You do understand that in order to have han china I would not only need several more faction, culture and religion slots, but it would also have to don't care about many tibetan, malaysian, and indian factions that wouldn't be included as well.

The team will decide what to do, but you are as always free to join the forum and post in the Agora about any ideas or concepts, not here. Thank you.

~Jirisys ()

[Populus Romanus]

Of all the people on this forum, the San Salvadorian happens to spot that. What are the odds?!:laugh4:

Quite frankly, I cannot see almost any culture similarity between myself, and American, and Latin America. The US is largely W.A.S.P., Latin America is not.

Still, I agree with his idea with merging Rome, West Greek and East Greek. For the sake of Asia.

[Ludens]

Please keep things civil. Remember that, although we can clearly see the differences within our own cultural group, to outsiders this often isn't visible.

[gamegeek2]

Of all the people on this forum, the San Salvadorian happens to spot that. What are the odds?!:laugh4:

Quite frankly, I cannot see almost any culture similarity between myself, and American, and Latin America. The US is largely W.A.S.P., Latin America is not.

Still, I agree with his idea with merging Rome, West Greek and East Greek. For the sake of Asia.

Hah! And you guys make fun of us Americans for making stupid stereotypes!

Please look at ANY chart of American ancestry, you'll quickly realize just how damn wrong you are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancestry_of_Americans

[jirisys]

Hah! And you guys make fun of us Americans for making stupid stereotypes!

Please look at ANY chart of American ancestry, you'll quickly realize just how damn wrong you are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancestry_of_Americans

Culture is the same. Do you want stereotypes with burgers and barbeques? :laugh4:

Please refrain from posting any more of this here. Thank you.

~Jirisys ()

[gamegeek2]

Culture is the same. Do you want stereotypes with burgers and barbeques? :laugh4:

Please refrain from posting any more of this here. Thank you.

~Jirisys ()

Fine, time for me to make stereotypes about immigrant workers.

Please comment on my insane proposal on the forums.

[Ludens]

Better yet, let's drop the stereotypes altogether.

[Populus Romanus]

What new cultures will you create with the freed up culture slots? Presuming that Roman and W. Greek are out the window. Tibetan of course, and also divide the Steppe culture to represent the vast cultural differences between the people of the Russian steppe and the people of the Central Asian steppe. Those would be my suggestions.

[Lazy O]

Why does Rome even need a seperate culture? Merge them with the Greeks!! We need moar diversity for Asia Minor/Iran/Nomads/Indians

[Finn MacCumhail]

Populus Romanus, I really don't think that making a culture for "rebel" cities only is a good idea. No playable faction - no need of culture. No Tibet as faction - no need making culture for them. Mod about Asia, so merging Romans, W and E Greeks is a good idea. For the sake of Asia!

[Populus Romanus]

I don't know if the Tibetans should be represented as just rebels, though. I was pretty bummed the other day, because I have this HUGE book about ancient cultures, including Tibet, and was thinking, "Oh I can totally do a whole bunch of research to piece together Tibetan culture." But guess what? It only starts with introduction of Buddhism into Tibet in 800 AD! However, there were plenty of independent Tibetan kingdoms. I cannot find out what they were like, though, because my book only starts 1000 years later!

[Cute Wolf]

I don't know if the Tibetans should be represented as just rebels, though. I was pretty bummed the other day, because I have this HUGE book about ancient cultures, including Tibet, and was thinking, "Oh I can totally do a whole bunch of research to piece together Tibetan culture." But guess what? It only starts with introduction of Buddhism into Tibet in 800 AD! However, there were plenty of independent Tibetan kingdoms. I cannot find out what they were like, though, because my book only starts 1000 years later!

Today's Tibetan things only got widespread popularity because of Dalai Lama and their efforts of rebellion from their Chinese conquerors

Before the rise of Lhasa under Qi Zhonglong Zhan, all that we got in Tibet are small kingdoms and warlords, spaced with some Semi-Nomadic hordes. The best things that could come in terms of Tibetan faction are very loose confederacy of tribes that not even united in language.

Plus, before the arrival of Buddhism, Tibet was populated by Nomadic cannibals (according to Han Chinese literatures), so what would you can expect is Voinos like troopers

[Populus Romanus]

Plus, before the arrival of Buddhism, Tibet was populated by Nomadic cannibals (according to Han Chinese literatures), so what would you can expect is Voinos like troopers
To be fair, the Tibetans and the Chinese were historical enemies, I do not think it would be below the Chinese to spread false stories about the Tibetans.

As for Tibetan factions, I think you do have a point. There are none to choose from!:wall: Except for the Zhangzhung, but they are pretty uncharted territory.


May I propose an alternative start date?
I would suggest 230 BC. The advantages of this are clear: The Maurya are dead, therefore making the question of who will dominate India less of a no brainer. India would be split between multiple warring kingdoms trying to fill their power vacuum. The Pandyas, the Satahavana, the Indo-Greeks, and the Sunga could all be in. This would make the situation in India way more interesting. Also, this would help represent unfairly represented India. after all, just look at the concentration of factions west to east, and one will see that the west is way overrepresented at the expense of the east. Also, no new faction slots would be used up in doing this. The Indo-Greeks were still part of Bactria, the Sunga were the natural successors of the Maurya, athe Pandyas are already in, and so are the Satavahana, although now they are playable.

[gamegeek2]

Yeah, tibetan states don't emerge until around 600 AD

[Iron Fist]

Quick 2 cents...
Drop the Roman culture slot, it can be used somewhere else( I think). By that I mean take the road that EB teams uses, no emergent factions. That is of course starting date is 247(originally intended?).

[Cute Wolf]

To be fair, the Tibetans and the Chinese were historical enemies, I do not think it would be below the Chinese to spread false stories about the Tibetans.

As for Tibetan factions, I think you do have a point. There are none to choose from!:wall: Except for the Zhangzhung, but they are pretty uncharted territory.

I will said that Tibet-Chinese enemities start from the period when Buddhism gain prominence and unite Tibet

actually, if you read most central-south-southeast asian history, you'll notice one thing, before the arrival of buddhism (and in some places, even until Islam comes, and some cults still exists even today), cannibalism and human sacrifice are very common features.

[Lazy O]

Why do you want Maurya to be dead??(I object to that since my family is originally of that region )

[Cute Wolf]

Why do you want Maurya to be dead??(I object to that since my family is originally of that region )

actually, with Maurya still in, the works will be easier

[Populus Romanus]

Maybe, but the game will also be kind of boring in India. After all, there is not doubt in anyone's mind who will always win in India. That is more certain than knowing that the Casse will always conquer Brittania (not someone else). Unless it is the player taking control of the Pandyas, then the Pandyas never would stand a chance, which would really be lame. The power vacuum after the Mauryas' fall would really exciting and up in the air, though, which would help this mod live up to its name.

[jirisys]

Maybe, but the game will also be kind of boring in India. After all, there is not doubt in anyone's mind who will always win in India. That is more certain than knowing that the Casse will always conquer Brittania (not someone else). Unless it is the player taking control of the Pandyas, then the Pandyas never would stand a chance, which would really be lame. The power vacuum after the Mauryas' fall would really exciting and up in the air, though, which would help this mod live up to its name.

Yet... You like the Getai/Sauro/Sweboz blitz on Eleutheroi cities?

You have no idea how the collapse will be played out, there will be no superpowered maurya, and if there is, well; you could also go to EB and point out why the AS was overpowered.

Cease this discussion please. Thank you.

~Jirisys ()

[Populus Romanus]

I am just trying to help, you know.:yes:

[jirisys]

I am just trying to help, you know.:yes:

I know you are, but if you would like to help, go to the freakin dev forums and help there!

~Jirisys ()

[DeathFinger]

Why do you want Maurya to be dead??(I object to that since my family is originally of that region )

For the sake of gameplay I think. Not to give the work easy to unite India. Maurya would be a superpower with no challenge in India, but if you begin after his collapse, Sunga can be challenged by other powers (Gandhara, Satavahana, Kalinga maybe....)

[Populus Romanus]

For the sake of gameplay I think. Not to give the work easy to unite India. Maurya would be a superpower with no challenge in India, but if you begin after his collapse, Sunga can be challenged by other powers (Gandhara, Satavahana, Kalinga maybe....)

Precisely my reasoning.
I know you are, but if you would like to help, go to the freakin dev forums and help there!

~Jirisys ()But those are for members only, right?

[jirisys]

But those are for members only, right?


You can visit and register on our development forum; where you are welcomed to have a good time and chat with either us, or many other fans of this mod. However the development area will be kept secret to many so that we may surprise you; nonetheless you can still post any ideas or suggestions for the mod in the respective section.

Here's the link: Development Forum (http://asiatonbarbaron.freeforums.org/index.php)

Ugh... :shame:

~Jirisys ()

[Populus Romanus]

It won't let me post in there, foo. You have to have an account there, or something.

[jirisys]

It won't let me post in there, foo. You have to have an account there, or something.

:disappointed:

Then... MAKE THE ACCOUNT!

Oh the humanity... :disappointed:

~Jirisys ()

[Cute Wolf]

well, that's just will make another (insert mauryan colour)-death

but why not earlier as well?

[G. Septimus]

:disappointed:

Then... MAKE THE ACCOUNT!

Oh the humanity... :disappointed:

~Jirisys ()
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

[jirisys]

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5060/5527632647_6e9f0721ba_b.jpg


Ασια των βαρβαρων - Asia ton Barbaron


ΑΝΔΡΩΝ ΕΠΙΦΑΝΩΝ ΠΑΣΑ Η ΓΗ ΤΑΦΟΣ - The grave of great men is the whole Earth.

-Thucydides

Greetings, Europa Barbarorum fans.
From this day forward we will start bombarding you with previews, maybe this way we can increase our chances of getting our so needed modelers. And maybe get a little more interest coming our way.
I also hope these few months will be enjoyable to us all and that we finish it in due time.

So; without further a-do.

--------------------------------

Oh great nobles, soldiers and countrymen! Men who make all kingdoms great, for without you, they would not survive, you bring wise advice, you offer protection from the onslaught of other men, whom their eyes are filled with jelousy and hatred; you bring food to all, you give your ruler's army what they most need when they are far from home. You are what keep together an empire, a kingdom, a city.

Yet the kings and emperors do not know much about what you see and what you know, for they are busy men, and cannot listen to every single subject of them. Now I must write what you know, to give it to my ruler, as he is always weary of what step to take next, please oh glorious men. Do not keep any secrets from me, as you will be keeping them from your king.

That is why he calls me, a man whose work is not known and not wanted. However, we have to do it, for the rulers need us, to understand what his lands need, and which ones will become annexed to his great rule.

But what of us? What word do we bring to our noblemen, our kings and emperors, our consules or autokratores?
Well, here we are all reunited, gathered without any knowledge of the others, but knowing that they will not betray our secret, for the wrath of their rulers will not be the only ones that fall upon them.
This meeting must be kept secret, our kings will not be happy to hear what we have done.

Now it is my turn to start this meeting, reading the writings that I gave the king a few days ago. His rule is great and his military might is greater, feared by even the bravest man of their lands. But no one knows how powerful we truly are.


https://img694.imageshack.us/img694/4854/mauryasaamraajya.png

~Jirisys ()

[Populus Romanus]

Nice faction symbol!

You misspelled Thucydides.

[jirisys]

Nice faction symbol!

You misspelled Thucydides.

Thank you, edited.

~Jirisys (Ah... The dangers of the Insert key.)

[Cute Wolf]

Jiri, ripping up old ATB symbol and stuff up things with incomprehensible and unclear sentences are not good.

~ this hijacked project proved to be hopeless afterall *facepalm*

[jirisys]

Jiri, ripping up old ATB symbol and stuff up things with incomprehensible and unclear sentences are not good.

~ this hijacked project proved to be hopeless afterall *facepalm*

I would like to assess you that I made it myself from scratch, I have the PSD to prove it. Second, this is not a preview itself, I think that common sense and logic would tell you that what you call "incomprehensible and unclear senteces" (then follows awful grammar) cannot be a full preview. Third, you should not state the same thing on both forums, as it makes you look like you are trolling (which you are)

I'm off, I will leave you with a memetic image for your pleasure.

[Removed - Ludens]

~Jirisys ()

[Cute Wolf]

hmm... this 3 lion symbol:


has level of details that can only be made by VECTOR IMAGE, claiming that the original file was PSD just prove that you try to claim Skullhead's Work for yourself by making the background blue instead of the original marble green. Plus, the "rim" of the symbol is pretty much too identical, making it obvious you copy the original PNG file that was posted in old AtB dev forum.

It is actually better to say you have their permission (which will be granted easily, and I believe we have no qualms against it), but the very fact that you try to claim that as your own is plain ridiculous and wrong things to do.


that's all


(PS: I make this statement openly on both forum so all could know who you really are)

[Populus Romanus]

hmm... this 3 lion symbol:


has level of details that can only be made by VECTOR IMAGE, claiming that the original file was PSD just prove that you try to claim Skullhead's Work for yourself by making the background blue instead of the original marble green. Plus, the "rim" of the symbol is pretty much too identical, making it obvious you copy the original PNG file that was posted in old AtB dev forum.

It is actually better to say you have their permission (which will be granted easily, and I believe we have no qualms against it), but the very fact that you try to claim that as your own is plain ridiculous and wrong things to do.


that's all


(PS: I make this statement openly on both forum so all could know who you really are)
Hey man, chill. I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill right now.

[Ludens]

Jirisys, Cute Wolf, check your PM.

Everybody else, please dial down the hostility a notch.

[jirisys]

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5060/5527632647_6e9f0721ba_b.jpg


Ασια των βαρβαρων - Asia ton Barbaron


ΑΝΔΡΩΝ ΕΠΙΦΑΝΩΝ ΠΑΣΑ Η ΓΗ ΤΑΦΟΣ - The grave of great men is the whole Earth.

-Thucydides

Greetings, Europa Barbarorum fans.
From this day forward we will start bombarding you with previews, maybe this way we can increase our chances of getting our so needed modelers. And maybe get a little more interest coming our way.
I also hope these few months will be enjoyable to us all and that we finish it in due time.

So; without further a-do.

--------------------------------

Oh great nobles, soldiers and countrymen! Men who make all kingdoms great, for without you, they would not survive, you bring wise advice, you offer protection from the onslaught of other men, whom their eyes are filled with jelousy and hatred; you bring food to all, you give your ruler's army what they most need when they are far from home. You are what keep together an empire, a kingdom, a city.

Yet the kings and emperors do not know much about what you see and what you know, for they are busy men, and cannot listen to every single subject of them. Now I must write what you know, to give it to my ruler, as he is always weary of what step to take next, please oh glorious men. Do not keep any secrets from me, as you will be keeping them from your king.

That is why he calls me, a man whose work is not known and not wanted. However, we have to do it, for the rulers need us, to understand what his lands need, and which ones will become annexed to his great rule.

But what of us? What word do we bring to our noblemen, our kings and emperors, our consules or autokratores?
Well, here we are all reunited, gathered without any knowledge of the others, but knowing that they will not betray our secret, for the wrath of their rulers will not be the only ones that fall upon them.
This meeting must be kept secret, our kings will not be happy to hear what we have done.

Now it is my turn to start this meeting, reading the writings that I gave the king a few days ago. His rule is great and his military might is greater, feared by even the bravest man of their lands. But no one knows how powerful we truly are.


https://img694.imageshack.us/img694/4854/mauryasaamraajya.png

~Jirisys ()

Due to the unfortunate banter, I'll quote the Pre-Preview 1 here

~Jirisys ()

[Ca Putt]

nice logo(whoever made it^^) and I like the Image above too but that is no reason to quote it, that just makes the thread longer and less clear.

furthermore I haven't noticed any more real progress since the change in management, I rather have the feeling that this thread mainly features discussions that (in a way)had been held years ago :(
and hostility

btw I know that concepts, images, historical research etc take lots of time and are important for a project like this(things I often do for mods actually) but in this case it really is time to spread out some texture/ingame previews, otherwise Jirisys will bury the already dead AtB instead of reviving it.

[jirisys]

nice logo(whoever made it^^) and I like the Image above too but that is no reason to quote it, that just makes the thread longer and less clear.

furthermore I haven't noticed any more real progress since the change in management, I rather have the feeling that this thread mainly features discussions that (in a way)had been held years ago :(
and hostility

btw I know that concepts, images, historical research etc take lots of time and are important for a project like this(things I often do for mods actually) but in this case it really is time to spread out some texture/ingame previews, otherwise Jirisys will bury the already dead AtB instead of reviving it.

I made it :grin: thanks.

I quoted it because of all the banter, the pre-preview will be overlooked.

Do not mind the hostility, moderators are here to remove any sort of it.

Have I told you that our first full preview will be (hopefully) done for friday :grin:

You don't see progress because you're outside Santa's factory. If you get in you will notice all the unpaid elves being exploited to death :laugh4:

~Jirisys (I'm kidding about the elves part)

[Populus Romanus]

You don't see progress because you're outside Santa's factory. If you get in you will notice all the unpaid elves being exploited to death :laugh4:

~Jirisys (I'm kidding about the elves part)Lies...*cough*...kill him...*choke*...please!...*dies*

[Ca Putt]

nah I don't mind the hostility, It's just sooooo entertaining! but I know that it does not belong here, like beer at work!

honestly, everyone who skims through the thread sees this HUGE banner, It's not like there are any other large images that draw ones attention, so no reason to quote it.

if you show me some candy I may come into Santa's factory but when I don't have proof that there is candy inside I have no reason to follow that tired little elf with a chain around his neck into the building!!

[jirisys]

nah I don't mind the hostility, It's just sooooo entertaining! but I know that it does not belong here, like beer at work!

honestly, everyone who skims through the thread sees this HUGE banner, It's not like there are any other large images that draw ones attention, so no reason to quote it.

if you show me some candy I may come into Santa's factory but when I don't have proof that there is candy inside I have no reason to follow that tired little elf with a chain around his neck into the building!!

Wait a week more and lots and lots of candy will be given :grin:

~Jirisys ()

[jirisys]

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5060/5527632647_6e9f0721ba_b.jpg

Ασια των βαρβαρων - Asia ton Barbaron

ΑΝΔΡΩΝ ΕΠΙΦΑΝΩΝ ΠΑΣΑ Η ΓΗ ΤΑΦΟΣ - The grave of great men is the whole Earth.
-Thucydides


Official Announcement

Greeting Europa Barbarorum fans.
I have several announcements to make from the whole team.
I will not keep you waiting.


We are currently working hard on our next preview, however it is possible it will be delayed a few days, possibly until next week. Other matters require a lot from us too.

A contest will be devised: After each preview, you can post here your guesses for the next faction we are going to preview, only one guess is allowed, and the first person to guess correctly before the next pre-preview will be granted Team Member Access to our development forum until the full preview comes out. Of course, as you may have deducted; team members can't participate in this contest.

We are currently in dire need for a modeler and a skinner. While some of us can do a tad of both, we need someone who is can do more complex things. We urge you to help us, if you do; we might even get more and more previews sooner.

Also here we would like to announce our 2D art; first one is the logo, which is in the first post of this thread. The second one is the official banner, used for each preview, announcement or newsletter in the forums. You can see it at the top of this post or on any other official posts.

We will be making a bi-monthly (every two weeks) newsletter here; so you may see how big is our progress. Starting Monday, March 28th.


That is all. Thanks for your support and I hope you have a good day.

~Jirisys ()

[Skullheadhq]

If you guys want to use my faction symbols or skins, I'm okay with it. If you want a skinner, I'd be glad to help (again).
This was my old Maurya symbol:
https://img9.imageshack.us/img9/7070/maurya.jpg

[Populus Romanus]

I am sure that would be great!

[Iron Fist]

Not to offend anyone or something, but can something be scavenged from previous ATB, of course with permissions?

[jirisys]

Not to offend anyone or something, but can something be scavenged from previous ATB, of course with permissions?

Lots, but we try not to, exhumating a dead body always feels weird.

~Jirisys ()

[Skullheadhq]

Have you guys asked gamegeek about this?

[Blxz]

Lots, but we try not to, exhumating a dead body always feels weird.

~Jirisys ()

Wait, so you are not reviving the project at all but starting again and just using the same name? Bah, and I got all excited when I saw this title. I'm trying not to critisize but I've not seen much leadership from you in this thread.

Best of luck and hope things work well for the project.

[Cute Wolf]

Wait, so you are not reviving the project at all but starting again and just using the same name? Bah, and I got all excited when I saw this title. I'm trying not to critisize but I've not seen much leadership from you in this thread.

Best of luck and hope things work well for the project.

seconded, if rep are exist in da org, I'll rep you, but now, have a balloon for telling the truth :balloon:

[Skullheadhq]

We could better just revive the old one, the map and Indian factions are done and so are most skins for the Hellenistic factions.

[Cute Wolf]

but definitely not with Jirisys and BeOs as leaders, Svramj, Gamegeek, Finn, and even you are more deserving than that hijackers

[Skullheadhq]

but definitely not with Jirisys and BeOs as leaders, Svramj, Gamegeek, Finn, and even you are more deserving than that hijackers
Svramj is gone, gamegeek could be a better leader, we should ask him.

[jirisys]

Wait, so you are not reviving the project at all but starting again and just using the same name? Bah, and I got all excited when I saw this title. I'm trying not to critisize but I've not seen much leadership from you in this thread.

Best of luck and hope things work well for the project.

We're not reviving it because it will be different. We had a few annoyances with the other one. Such as the fact that Makedonia there will be pretty much useless, Kyrene is there for no reason, etc.

We have the same outlines and basic concepts. We are actually using old AtB research (ask svramj). Besides; what's the fun in taking someone else's almost complete campaign and then only playing it for twenty minutes till you win? We want to create a new thing out of the same concept. We have lots of new things and removed several old ones.

Also the exhumating the dead body part... I wasn't talking about AtB...

What? I'm trying to be like DaVinci here... Can't blame me...


We could better just revive the old one, the map and Indian factions are done and so are most skins for the Hellenistic factions.

Above thingy.


but definitely not with Jirisys and BeOs as leaders, Svramj, Gamegeek, Finn, and even you are more deserving than that hijackers

Svramj is fine with the project; he in fact, granted me admin access to the old AtB forums, is helping me A LOT with the maurya faction and further, the many other indian ones. He is a Moderator of the forum and also has helped us gladly, and we are in deep gratitude for that, you can see him on the members section by the way.

If someone liked the concept, they will stick around (like beos, svramj, me, etc) and try to make it better to suit their perspectives.

If someone liked the mod itself, they will be somewhat dissapointed at first, but possibly could wind up to like the new one as much as they liked the old one.

If someone dislikes either the leaders, members or has a dogmatic love for the old one, they will insult and try to undermine other people's effort into changing the concepts.

Stop the banter.


Svramj is gone, gamegeek could be a better leader, we should ask him.

Did you see what his concept was going to be? Did you actually read the first few pages of this?

To quote:
This is my map so far, I think it has 60-70 cities so far. Hax, what do you think?

https://img220.imageshack.us/img220/6808/startingregions.jpg

We obviously need more cities in India, some more steppe cities, and maybe a couple more in China

(Also it will be from 80 BC)

I think his concept is WAY more far-fetched than mine.

If you excuse me, I have to help out the mod come along. Also preview will obviously be moved to monday due to several real-life issues.

~Jirisys ()

[Ludens]

No fights, please. If you have complaints, PM me.

[Lazy O]

All this fuss IMO is with Jyris taking the name, if the project name is changed as a compromise, wont everyone just be happy and let this go on???

[svramj]

Svramj is gone, gamegeek could be a better leader, we should ask him.

Skullheadhq, for your information i'm back to atb :) Jiri is doing a good job coordinating the team. Its not about leaders, its about the whole team. remember the old team ? ppl dropped like flies. one by one everyone vanished until ony we were left. Even gamegeek has come forward helping us here. I'd say lets revive it and get it done. The Indians are being revived again and are coming up bigger and better now :)

[jirisys]

All this fuss IMO is with Jyris taking the name, if the project name is changed as a compromise, wont everyone just be happy and let this go on???

:brood: Horaoy for dsyelixa! :brood:

Like you the police doesn't get coerced by kidnappers or hostage-grabbers. Like Apple doesn't get coerced for diffamation and fraud on the getamac ads, and like McDonalds doesn't get coerced by any sort of government restrictive policy for food and children advertising...

I won't be coerced by a few people angry because they have a dogmatic attachment to something that is semantically unimportant and unrestricted.

~Jirisys ()

[Lazy O]

If its not the name WHAT BE THE PROBLEM then?

[Ludens]

:brood: Horaoy for dsyelixa! :brood:

Like you the police doesn't get coerced by kidnappers or hostage-grabbers. Like Apple doesn't get coerced for diffamation and fraud on the getamac ads, and like McDonalds doesn't get coerced by any sort of government restrictive policy for food and children advertising...

I won't be coerced by a few people angry because they have a dogmatic attachment to something that is semantically unimportant and unrestricted.

That isn't helping at all.

Thead closed until further notice.

[gamegeek2]

Incorrect...I have not come forward with help really, I'm undecided on that.

[Ludens]

I hoped to resolve this in private, but apparently that isn't possible.

At the request of Jirisys, this thread will remain closed. You can now follow the Asia ton Barbaron (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?133969) project in the Forge (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?76-Forge).