Shadowwalker
02-20-2011, 02:30
Hello there,
instead of the next pointless question about a release date I'd rather want to share some thoughts about my expectations for EB II.
Perhaps some of you are interested in sharing their thoughts as well...
[huge-foreword-mode :laugh4:]
When Rome:TW was released I unfortunately wasn't able to play it right away since my computer was barely able to start the game and crashed as soon as the intro was about to start. (The machine was just too old.)
So I continued playing M:TW and just read about Rome. Soon I learned that it wasn't even slightly historical accurate - it was infact inaccurate enough that some people started mods to improve this.
Since I'm fairly interested in history I closely followed the progress of these mods (EB in particular).
When I finally was able to buy a new computer one of the first things I did was downloading EB 0.81.
I spent about half an hour playing Rome:TW, had a short laugh and switched to EB which I still play today.
[There are only four other games I played that intensively in my life: Civilization 2, Jagged Alliance 2, Medieval: TW [the first one!] and Baldurs Gate, the latter being the only other game I still play...]
I have played a fair lot of other Rome mods as well but none of them was able to catch my attention for long, there was always something that disappointed me too much. For example Roma Surrectum: It's a really good mod and I really appreciate the amount of work and good ideas - not to mention the unbelieveable generosity to release the new environment as a gift to all R:TW players! - but I just hate fighting several stacks per turn...
But even EB - which is what Rome should have been in my opinion, infact I consider it being Rome - has some limitations/problems that I don't like. Most of them are problems of the vanilla game though:
(1) The after-battle-CTD's. This is honestly the biggest problem for me. I can't count anymore how many heroic victories or siege battle victories I lost to crashes. It's annoying me to an extend that I often after such a crash just use a single unit and the auto-win cheat for that battle.
(2) Even EB - although really successful at lowering the amount of stacks on the map - wasn't able to solve the problem as a whole. In mid-/late campaigns the enemy factions (at least the bigger ones) still field a lot of stacks which they often throw at the player faction exclusively (although this seems to be less likely when playing on lower campaign difficulties). That's why I for example always quit Romani campaigns after ~150BC. Fighting Phalanxes with the SPQR troops (and without hiring mercenary phalanxes) is difficult enough for me (I always suffer 15-30% casualties) but full stacks of Argyraspides/Pezhetairoi/Klerouchon Agema/Chalkaspides with a backup of Thorakitai, Galatikoi Klerouchoi, heavy cavalry and/or archers is just .... *shudders*.
Fighting "stacks" consisting of a few high-tier-units that besiege your well-fortified/garrisoned frontier towns is another annoyance. I know they won't stand a chance (not even doing much harm to my defenders) but obviously the AI considers 2 Gaesatae, 1 Solduros, 3 Lugoae and 1 Leuce Epos to be enough to defeat the garrison of Massalia consisting of a whole polybian legion and it's auxilia as well as the city's garrison (1 Velites, 2 Hastati, 2 Principes, 1 Triarii, 2 Iaosatae, 2 Gaeroas and 1 Pedites Extraordinarii; garrison: another 4 Iaosatae, 2 Hoplitai Haploi and 1 Celtic Lesser King....). This leads to a sally battle every turn which is completely pointless. I'd autoresolve it if it weren't for the high casualties and the following necessity to retrain the garrison in an italian settlement....
(3) The diplomacy. Or better: the nonexistant diplomacy. It is just ridiculous that you have to extinct every faction you border just to stop them throwing everything they have against your walls. It is also ridiculous that two factions that were at war for some dozen years instantly make peace (and of course ally the next turn...) as soon as one of them borders you - just to give that factions the opportunity to attack you instead.
(4) The boredom of late campaigns. Another reason why I - although I play EB for several years now - only managed to win 3 campaigns so far (Pontos in EB 1.1 and Carthage in EB 1.0 and 1.2). I had about 6 or seven SPQR campaigns where I reached the Marian Reforms (and even had one recently where my legions are Imperial ones) but I just grow bored when the only thing I have to do is fighting pesky rebels in my "safe" regions and fighting at least one enemy fullstack every turn at the frontier. I know I can't lose anymore but gaining any further process is just painfully slow because the bordering factions concentrate all their troops at my borders (even if this means that another enemy on the other side of their kingdom takes over province after province).
The mentioned SPQR campaign sees about ten fullstacks of the Seleucids in Asia Minor (Mazaka/Tarsos) and Egypt (Kyrene/Augila). Pontos (despite having only 3 provinces) has it's 3 fullstacks near Ankyra, the Sauromatae are busy filling the fifth stack at Olbia and the Sweboz have some six or seven stacks along the Rhine. *sigh*
I don't even dream of defeating three phalanx-heavy or horse-archer-exclusive fullstacks at once so it's just a stalemate.
(5) The bad BAI.... err, no. Infact that isn't something I even noticed at all. :rolleyes3: I'm probably the worst tactician ever. When I look at certain AAR's I just shake my head in disbelief. (The last example is QS's "Epeiros-as-Pergamon" game, where he shows victories against phalanx-heavy fullstacks, achieved with a halfstack of low-level-troops. I'd lose a halfstack against that enemy army ... :laugh4:)
Err... back to topic.
(6) The somewhat crowded map, especially in regions like greece or italy.
[/huge-foreword-mode :laugh4:]
So what do I hope to see in EBII?
(1) A much lesser amount of CTD's. I strongly believe that to become true since I played some mods for MII:TW and almost never had any CTD's that were caused by hardcoded CA programming madness.
(2) A somewhat more reasonable CAI. I know this to be possible because I experienced it in some mods as well (for example the wonderful german Reconquista mod or Das Heilige Römische Reich). It would be wonderful if you could - for example by paying tributes - get a bit more peace in your campaigns.
(3) Better game mechanics about alternative history and recruitment. I mean: it is obvious that most players won't follow the history (perhaps except for some really patient SPQR players; by the way: Quintus Sertorius, I really like your guide). There's not much fun in recreating the defeat of a faction....
So most players will change the history and for example take of half of Europe with the Lusotannan. I'd really love it if the culture system could be used to allow players to "convert" the conquered regions to the faction's culture. Of course this should be a loooong process (at least as long and difficult as the second tier of the Hayasdan reforms in EB), but it should be possible at least. And it ideally should include the possibility to train factional troops in those regions at last. Not the elite ones or troops that are clearly regional (so no Thessalian Cavalry in southern Ireland) but I hope for basic units at least.
Another example: Let's say I play the Koinon Hellenon and somehow manage to conquer Gader. After a lot of efforts it should be possible to convince the inhabitants that some units of levy and classical hoplites make for a good defence of Gader. And some Sphendonetai, Toxotai and Akontistai as well...
Of course this would mean to convince the inhabitants of the superiority of the underlying culture concepts first (could be done in game terms by bringing a good amount of hellenic people to Gader - done by certain buildings - and raising the hellenic culture in Gader above 60% for the levy hoplites, slingers, javelineers and archers and above 80% for the hoplitai). And of course it should never be possible to reach a replenishment rate for these troops as high as in, say, Athenai.
(4) A lot more complex building trees. I would love to see much more differences between the factions in that part of the game and I'd love to see building trees that are big enough that you can't build everything available in the first hundred years. As I said: I love Civilization...:yes:
(5) More interesting late campaigns. Although I honestly haven't even the slightest idea how to reach that.
(6) The extensive use of dynamic events (for example for several reforms). Infact the events are one of the features I like the most about MII:TW.
(7) And of course: at least the same level of historical accuracy as in EB and a lot of information I didn't know before. That is no hope or expectation though, I just KNOW it will be that way.
(8) I felt like "YAY!!!!" when I read about the increased dimensions of the EBII map, so I'm fairly sure that a "Too crowded!"-feeling won't happen again. ~:)
(9) And I'd really love if something like the CityMod would be implemented in EBII.
A word about eyecandy: I don't bother too much with several faces for units or variations in the equipment. Don't get me wrong: I appreciate the work the team invests into this part of the game, it is in my personal case just a waste because I rarely have the time to zoom in during a battle. I'm busy with trying to keep the casualties low.
Eyecandy I really love are for example the unit and building icons on the stratmap and the map itself (I just jawdropped when I saw the map of Paeninsula Italica for MII:TW or the building icons of The Last Kingdom, just to give you an idea what I'm talking about).
That much from me for the moment.
Would love to read your opinions/wishes/expectations.
[I apologize for the rather limited english...]
instead of the next pointless question about a release date I'd rather want to share some thoughts about my expectations for EB II.
Perhaps some of you are interested in sharing their thoughts as well...
[huge-foreword-mode :laugh4:]
When Rome:TW was released I unfortunately wasn't able to play it right away since my computer was barely able to start the game and crashed as soon as the intro was about to start. (The machine was just too old.)
So I continued playing M:TW and just read about Rome. Soon I learned that it wasn't even slightly historical accurate - it was infact inaccurate enough that some people started mods to improve this.
Since I'm fairly interested in history I closely followed the progress of these mods (EB in particular).
When I finally was able to buy a new computer one of the first things I did was downloading EB 0.81.
I spent about half an hour playing Rome:TW, had a short laugh and switched to EB which I still play today.
[There are only four other games I played that intensively in my life: Civilization 2, Jagged Alliance 2, Medieval: TW [the first one!] and Baldurs Gate, the latter being the only other game I still play...]
I have played a fair lot of other Rome mods as well but none of them was able to catch my attention for long, there was always something that disappointed me too much. For example Roma Surrectum: It's a really good mod and I really appreciate the amount of work and good ideas - not to mention the unbelieveable generosity to release the new environment as a gift to all R:TW players! - but I just hate fighting several stacks per turn...
But even EB - which is what Rome should have been in my opinion, infact I consider it being Rome - has some limitations/problems that I don't like. Most of them are problems of the vanilla game though:
(1) The after-battle-CTD's. This is honestly the biggest problem for me. I can't count anymore how many heroic victories or siege battle victories I lost to crashes. It's annoying me to an extend that I often after such a crash just use a single unit and the auto-win cheat for that battle.
(2) Even EB - although really successful at lowering the amount of stacks on the map - wasn't able to solve the problem as a whole. In mid-/late campaigns the enemy factions (at least the bigger ones) still field a lot of stacks which they often throw at the player faction exclusively (although this seems to be less likely when playing on lower campaign difficulties). That's why I for example always quit Romani campaigns after ~150BC. Fighting Phalanxes with the SPQR troops (and without hiring mercenary phalanxes) is difficult enough for me (I always suffer 15-30% casualties) but full stacks of Argyraspides/Pezhetairoi/Klerouchon Agema/Chalkaspides with a backup of Thorakitai, Galatikoi Klerouchoi, heavy cavalry and/or archers is just .... *shudders*.
Fighting "stacks" consisting of a few high-tier-units that besiege your well-fortified/garrisoned frontier towns is another annoyance. I know they won't stand a chance (not even doing much harm to my defenders) but obviously the AI considers 2 Gaesatae, 1 Solduros, 3 Lugoae and 1 Leuce Epos to be enough to defeat the garrison of Massalia consisting of a whole polybian legion and it's auxilia as well as the city's garrison (1 Velites, 2 Hastati, 2 Principes, 1 Triarii, 2 Iaosatae, 2 Gaeroas and 1 Pedites Extraordinarii; garrison: another 4 Iaosatae, 2 Hoplitai Haploi and 1 Celtic Lesser King....). This leads to a sally battle every turn which is completely pointless. I'd autoresolve it if it weren't for the high casualties and the following necessity to retrain the garrison in an italian settlement....
(3) The diplomacy. Or better: the nonexistant diplomacy. It is just ridiculous that you have to extinct every faction you border just to stop them throwing everything they have against your walls. It is also ridiculous that two factions that were at war for some dozen years instantly make peace (and of course ally the next turn...) as soon as one of them borders you - just to give that factions the opportunity to attack you instead.
(4) The boredom of late campaigns. Another reason why I - although I play EB for several years now - only managed to win 3 campaigns so far (Pontos in EB 1.1 and Carthage in EB 1.0 and 1.2). I had about 6 or seven SPQR campaigns where I reached the Marian Reforms (and even had one recently where my legions are Imperial ones) but I just grow bored when the only thing I have to do is fighting pesky rebels in my "safe" regions and fighting at least one enemy fullstack every turn at the frontier. I know I can't lose anymore but gaining any further process is just painfully slow because the bordering factions concentrate all their troops at my borders (even if this means that another enemy on the other side of their kingdom takes over province after province).
The mentioned SPQR campaign sees about ten fullstacks of the Seleucids in Asia Minor (Mazaka/Tarsos) and Egypt (Kyrene/Augila). Pontos (despite having only 3 provinces) has it's 3 fullstacks near Ankyra, the Sauromatae are busy filling the fifth stack at Olbia and the Sweboz have some six or seven stacks along the Rhine. *sigh*
I don't even dream of defeating three phalanx-heavy or horse-archer-exclusive fullstacks at once so it's just a stalemate.
(5) The bad BAI.... err, no. Infact that isn't something I even noticed at all. :rolleyes3: I'm probably the worst tactician ever. When I look at certain AAR's I just shake my head in disbelief. (The last example is QS's "Epeiros-as-Pergamon" game, where he shows victories against phalanx-heavy fullstacks, achieved with a halfstack of low-level-troops. I'd lose a halfstack against that enemy army ... :laugh4:)
Err... back to topic.
(6) The somewhat crowded map, especially in regions like greece or italy.
[/huge-foreword-mode :laugh4:]
So what do I hope to see in EBII?
(1) A much lesser amount of CTD's. I strongly believe that to become true since I played some mods for MII:TW and almost never had any CTD's that were caused by hardcoded CA programming madness.
(2) A somewhat more reasonable CAI. I know this to be possible because I experienced it in some mods as well (for example the wonderful german Reconquista mod or Das Heilige Römische Reich). It would be wonderful if you could - for example by paying tributes - get a bit more peace in your campaigns.
(3) Better game mechanics about alternative history and recruitment. I mean: it is obvious that most players won't follow the history (perhaps except for some really patient SPQR players; by the way: Quintus Sertorius, I really like your guide). There's not much fun in recreating the defeat of a faction....
So most players will change the history and for example take of half of Europe with the Lusotannan. I'd really love it if the culture system could be used to allow players to "convert" the conquered regions to the faction's culture. Of course this should be a loooong process (at least as long and difficult as the second tier of the Hayasdan reforms in EB), but it should be possible at least. And it ideally should include the possibility to train factional troops in those regions at last. Not the elite ones or troops that are clearly regional (so no Thessalian Cavalry in southern Ireland) but I hope for basic units at least.
Another example: Let's say I play the Koinon Hellenon and somehow manage to conquer Gader. After a lot of efforts it should be possible to convince the inhabitants that some units of levy and classical hoplites make for a good defence of Gader. And some Sphendonetai, Toxotai and Akontistai as well...
Of course this would mean to convince the inhabitants of the superiority of the underlying culture concepts first (could be done in game terms by bringing a good amount of hellenic people to Gader - done by certain buildings - and raising the hellenic culture in Gader above 60% for the levy hoplites, slingers, javelineers and archers and above 80% for the hoplitai). And of course it should never be possible to reach a replenishment rate for these troops as high as in, say, Athenai.
(4) A lot more complex building trees. I would love to see much more differences between the factions in that part of the game and I'd love to see building trees that are big enough that you can't build everything available in the first hundred years. As I said: I love Civilization...:yes:
(5) More interesting late campaigns. Although I honestly haven't even the slightest idea how to reach that.
(6) The extensive use of dynamic events (for example for several reforms). Infact the events are one of the features I like the most about MII:TW.
(7) And of course: at least the same level of historical accuracy as in EB and a lot of information I didn't know before. That is no hope or expectation though, I just KNOW it will be that way.
(8) I felt like "YAY!!!!" when I read about the increased dimensions of the EBII map, so I'm fairly sure that a "Too crowded!"-feeling won't happen again. ~:)
(9) And I'd really love if something like the CityMod would be implemented in EBII.
A word about eyecandy: I don't bother too much with several faces for units or variations in the equipment. Don't get me wrong: I appreciate the work the team invests into this part of the game, it is in my personal case just a waste because I rarely have the time to zoom in during a battle. I'm busy with trying to keep the casualties low.
Eyecandy I really love are for example the unit and building icons on the stratmap and the map itself (I just jawdropped when I saw the map of Paeninsula Italica for MII:TW or the building icons of The Last Kingdom, just to give you an idea what I'm talking about).
That much from me for the moment.
Would love to read your opinions/wishes/expectations.
[I apologize for the rather limited english...]