Teutonic hotseat signup

[phonicsmonkey]

Anybody up for some Teutonic action? I'm thinking we'll use some light modding in this one to make Norway playable and the Mongols more viable...instructions will follow in the main game thread when we've all picked factions.

Zim told me he'd like to play as Norway, so who would you like out of:
Denmark -
The Mongols -
Teutonic Order -
Poland -
HRE -
Lithuania -
Kiev -

[Zim]

Playing Norway in two hotseats they've gotta do well in one. Right....right? :dizzy2:

[Nightbringer]

I'll give Poland a whirl.

[Ignoramus]

Novgorod for me, thanks!

[phonicsmonkey]

Norway - Zim
Denmark -
The Mongols -
Teutonic Order -
Poland - Nightbringer
HRE -
Lithuania -
Novgorod - Ignoramus

[Thanatos Eclipse]

okay, okay, I given in...must play...

sign me up for the Teutonic Order

[slysnake]

Sign me up for the Holy Roman Empire.....

[phonicsmonkey]

Norway - Zim
Denmark -
The Mongols -
Teutonic Order - Thanatos Eclipse
Poland - Nightbringer
HRE - slysnake
Lithuania -
Novgorod - Ignoramus

[phonicsmonkey]

bump

we need three more, any takers?

[slysnake]

bump

we need three more, any takers?

Unfortunatly Rex, who plays as France in the DoW hotseat, says he doesn't have enough time for this hotseat. Maybe Askthepizzaguy could find some time to join?

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Well, if we don't get any takers and we still want to give it a go, I'm willing to switch factions to make the starting positions more balanced.

[Cecil XIX]

With a moderator, you can always switch a faction to player controlled if someone joins later. For example, I'd be happy to join once I get my number of active games below four.

[phonicsmonkey]

This is true - however in a small game like this those factions are likely to be kerbstomped by their human neighbours in the first few turns, giving an advantage to those human factions and making the AI factions too weak to be attractive to a new player.

I've been trying to recruit new players in general from the TWC and from the Throne Room but with little success so far.

It'd be great if you guys could spread the word around people you know from other parts of the forum to see if we can get some new blood in here to kick this game off.

I'm sure some of you more experienced guys would also be willing to switch factions for a new player if necessary, right?

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Sure, I'm willing to switch :) Always liked powerful knights, but I did seriously consider one of the Pagan factions this time around

[Nightbringer]

of course, unfortunately however, pretty much everyone I know is from the Throne room.

[Zim]

For what it's worth the Teutons are extremely powerful in autoresolve. In the Lithuania succession game I often found myself at even odds with armies of their's I outnumbered 5 to 1 (with decent troops and a well balanced army on my side). Add in autoresolves perference for infantry and those basic spearmen mangle almost anything the early game factions can throw at them. We should probably at least try to get a player for Lithuania so they're slightly less of a speed bump (it will take a brave player, thought. Lithuania is at the opposite end of the spectrum for autoresolve. :clown:). I can also switch to Denmark to provide more of a balance between factions (with a western unit using sea power).

[Myth]

I've been PMed by phonicsmonkey and I was reluctant to join a second game at first, seiing as I have erratic access to a M2TW worthy PC. However I'd be loathe to leave you guys hanging, plus I like the idea of an unomdded game. (I've been playing SS 6.4 and the way the made the heretics impossibly strong is annoying).

If I can get the Teutonic Order or HRE I'd sign up. I want them mainly because I haven't played this expansion at all (I do have it installed naturally) and I like both factions at a glance. I've also given the HRE some time in the M2TW grand campaign.

[_Tristan_]

If you're still missing a player, I might give it a try... What factions are left ? Denmark or Mongols would be fine... If I took the TO, I would be tempted to replay "the Polish gambit" I did last time...

[Zim]

Denmark's awfully close to me. I'm not sure I want a repeat of last Teutonic game. Mongols sound far enough, though. :clown: ~;)


If you're still missing a player, I might give it a try... What factions are left ? Denmark or Mongols would be fine... If I took the TO, I would be tempted to replay "the Polish gambit" I did last time...

[phonicsmonkey]

Well, thanatos was willing to switch.

Should we put Myth down for TO, Tristan for the Mongols and Thanatos for...?

Also Myth this game is going to be lightly modded to fix Norway and the Mongols so they are viable. It's a pretty simple operation I'll post details of later.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Lithuania sounds good

[phonicsmonkey]

ok, so we have:

Norway - Zim
Denmark -
The Mongols - Tristan de Castelreng
Teutonic Order - Myth
Poland - Nightbringer
HRE - slysnake
Lithuania - Thanatos Eclipse
Novgorod - Ignoramus

We'll give it a day or so more and if no-one else shows up I might take Denmark myself..

[Myth]

Great! I'll be waiting then. BTW out of the RTW side of the forums you could message ReluctantSamurai or GaiusGermanicus. They seem to be playing RTW every day. So long as they have M2TW worthy PCs they could join.

[phonicsmonkey]

Do you know those guys? They might be more likely to join if they are invited by someone they know..

[Myth]

Not really, we've just discussed RTW and various strategies. They are good players though, and I imagine most everyone who likes RTW will like M2TW. I think the moderator of the section PMing them will have a better success rate though. One can't know what my agenda is, but the mod is obviously impartial right? :)

[phonicsmonkey]

One can't know what my agenda is, but the mod is obviously impartial right? :)

:sweatdrop:

[Nightbringer]

the mod is obviously impartial right? :)

Clearly you are not familiar enough with phonics.



I intend to use my powers for evil, in an arbitrary and brutal reign of terror which will hopefully last for all time.

[Myth]

Heh, I have read this post :) I can see him being active since being promoted. This is good, it shows he is dedicated. I would have not discovered the fun hotseat possibility if it were not for him PMing me. Hotseating is impossible for RTW so I just assumed it's the same deal with M2TW.

[Visor]

Goddamn it Phonics. I don't even like Denmark in the Teutonic hotseats.

But fine. I will join your hotseat. :P

Also, Myth, Rome hotseats are indeed possible.

[Myth]

It says in the sticky even that we've had limited success and it's not working well?

[phonicsmonkey]

Yay! Visor is here!

Myth I think the info in the sticky is a bit out of date. Although I haven't played in a RTW hotseat...feel free to start one if you want!

[phonicsmonkey]

ok, now we're all full let's talk about game setup.

I think we should use a light mod which has been used for a few Teutonic games over at TWC and which makes Norway and the Mongols playable.

1. Make a backup of your data file which is found in SEGA/MedievalTotalWar/mods/teutonic
1. Download the "Teutonic_data.rar" file (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=8822)
2. Unpack into the MedievalTotalWar/mods/teutonic file.
3. Select yes when asked to overwrite and/or merge folders
4. Delete the map.rwm file found in SEGA\Medieval II Total War\mods\teutonic\data\world\maps\base
5. Insert/copy & paste " --io.file_first" into the shortcut target field (look below for a guide)
6. Run Game!

#### --io.file_first guide####

Right click the shortcut and click properties. In the "target" field put "--io.file_first" at the very end with a space in-between the path and the "--io.file_first".

It should look something like this:
https://i37.tinypic.com/2ngqw46.jpg

Change log:

-Norway added as a playable faction
-Norway can build troops
-The Kalmar union script is no more
-The Mongol voices and music have been corrected along with their religion(Islamic) being existent in their territories
-Unit roster redone for The Mongols and Norway
-Imams can now be recruited for the Mongols
-Fixed few bugs regarding 2d art


In addition to this we all need to mod our descr_strat file to make the Mongols Kings Purse 1000fl instead of negative 1500 (which cripples them).

Would you all please do this and then post back here when you have it working?

Also I suggest we use the following rules:
- Players shall post a link to the save game in the main game thread and also send a private message to the next player in line to alert them that it is their turn. The save game file should follow the naming convention FN-turn number-faction (eg. FN-1-Novgorod)

- Players have 48 hours to play each turn, with extensions granted at request. The GM will skip a players' turn if the deadline is missed with no communication and a sub allied to the player cannot be found.

- All battles between human-controlled factions are to be auto-resolved

- No spies may be used to open the gates of settlements or forts.

- Siege equipment may only be used to open gates as follows: Ballista can open nothing, Catapults can open wooden walls, Trebuchets can open stone walls.

- No crusades or jihads can be called or joined by a human player.

- No destroying buildings for cash under any circumstances.

- No fighting losing defensive battles on purpose in a besieged city, just to deny the invader the sacking option.

- If an army is beaten in battle by a faction that is after them in the turn order that army may not move on the following turn.

- An army which is beaten in battle may not be attacked on the following turn (because it is immobilized either by the game mechanic or by the rule above) by any faction unless it has retreated to a fort or settlement.

- No exploits, including (but not limited to): no merchant forts, no surround-and-destroy, no tribute deals that deliberately put you into debt greater than 10k, no deliberate diplomatic exchange of territories just to get a free garrison, no tribute deals with or monetary gifts to the Pope, no attacking ships in ports, no leaving blockaded ports without defeating the blockading navy.

If a player is in doubt about whether an in-game action is permissible he shall consult the GM who will make a ruling. Players are requested to compete in a good spirit and use their judgment and sense of fairness at all times.

If a player is suspected of cheating, please make a private report to the GM and avoid making a public accusation or resorting to flaming in the game thread or elsewhere.

Please feel free to provide comment and discuss these rules.

When I have confirmation from everyone on the modding and the rules I'll start the game.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

sounds good, although I probably won't be able to get any of the modding done till friday.

[Nightbringer]

Hey, I don't have a specific launcher for TO, I just use the launcher that comes with the game which lets you pick which one you do.
what should i do about the shortcut thing

[Nightbringer]

nevermind, I made my own launcher for TO and added that, it works fine now.

[Myth]

Kalmar union? Having never played the expansion, what does this do exactly?

Also you can add the diplodread exploit to he list :D

[_Tristan_]

I'll set it up tonight when I get home...

May I suggest we name the turn FN-Faction-Turn Number ? It is easier condisering how editing works in M2TW...

[phonicsmonkey]

Kalmar union? Having never played the expansion, what does this do exactly?

Also you can add the diplodread exploit to he list :D

Kalmar Union gives extra scripted stacks and units to Norway or Denmark when they unite Scandinavia (I think). It's disabled in this mod because it's unbalanced for hotseat play.

[Zim]

Hmm, the Order gets free troops as well (which kick more butt in autoresolve), without having to wipe out an equally sized human controlled faction to do so.


Kalmar Union gives extra scripted stacks and units to Norway or Denmark when they unite Scandinavia (I think). It's disabled in this mod because it's unbalanced for hotseat play.

[phonicsmonkey]

Hmm, the Order gets free troops as well (which kick more butt in autoresolve), without having to wipe out an equally sized human controlled faction to do so.

When does that happen? As admin I can remove them if we decide it's unfair.

[Zim]

I think it's somewhat random. They get "crusades" of troops with missions to take certain, usually (always?) pagan settlements. I think they were half stacks or so.


When does that happen? As admin I can remove them if we decide it's unfair.

[phonicsmonkey]

I'm happy to put a rule in place that when those missions happen the extra troops must be disbanded. The TO is powerful enough I think without getting this extra help.

What does everyone else think?

[Myth]

As the player for the TO and having never played the campaign I'd have to say keep everything as is. The Kalmar union included. But If it's so imbalanced that either faction can sweep across the map then maybe no. I sure wish I had experience with this.

[phonicsmonkey]

The problem is I didn't create the mod and have zero modding skills, so I can't pick and choose which parts of it to use. If we don't use it we can't have Norway and the Mongols as playable, viable factions. So we're pretty much stuck with not having the Kalmar Union.

Myth, I think you'll find the TO is plenty strong enough without those extra stacks. But let's see what everyone else thinks.

[phonicsmonkey]

Just checking what Kalmar union means - it's when the Danish player conquers certain settlements and kills the Norwegian king, he basically gets to take over the remaining Norway faction automatically and completely. It's one-way, the Norway player can't do it. So a bit unfair in a hotseat where Norway is playable I think and a good thing not to have.

And the TO gets three "Crusading Nobles" with a half stack each which appear intermittently through the game if Lithuania is still pagan. There's a bit of a longstanding convention here that when things like this happen the scripted extra stacks are removed by the admin. We did it in CotF to get rid of extra Turkish and Byzantine stacks and I really think we should do it again here.

Myth, I understand you don't want to be disadvantaged but there is already a built-in advantage for the TO in that the auto-resolve favours your heavy infantry. In the last Teutonic hotseat we played the TO steamrollered everyone else combined.

So I hope you don't mind if we balance things by taking away those free stacks that no other factions get.

I really do think it will be more balanced that way and I'm not playing in this one so I don't have any vested interest.

[Myth]

Sure I can agree to that If the TO are that imbalanced. Because we left the free stacks in the Britannia game (wales gets hordes of troops I must now slaughter) I thought it wasn't a common thing to do. Do any of the other factions in the Teutonic Campaign get free stacks or other such things?

BTW what of missions that reward you with free units a-la council missions from M2TW?

[phonicsmonkey]

Because we left the free stacks in the Britannia game (wales gets hordes of troops I must now slaughter) I thought it wasn't a common thing to do.

Erm, ask the Britannia game admin about that :clown:

Seriously though, the Britannia campaign is just totally unbalanced all round to be honest. England starts with more territories than everybody else combined! So I think it would be likely unplayable if you took away the scripted armies from Wales, Scotland and Norway. Do Ireland get any? I'm not sure...


BTW what of missions that reward you with free units a-la council missions from M2TW?

Those usually aren't that unbalancing as you only get a few units at most and all factions get them so I don't consider them much of an issue.

[Zim]

I figured that's part of the fun of the Britannia game. In a completely fair fight England would easily steamroll the smaller factions. Norway isn't even viable without the troops they get (which are still far fewer than England or even Scotland can recruit in the same time period), and Wales is even worse off. Also note England gets free troops as well, including armored swordsmen I believe. This is in the form of a returning "crusade". I think only Ireland gets the shaft in regard to free troops, although if they're successful they do get an island of their own.

The Teutonic campaign is more or less balanced, except for factions not meant to be played (Norway and Mongols) and the Order, which has the best castles and basic troops that can take on others' elites in autoresolve. Kalmar Union aside, they're also the sole "free troop" faction in the campaign.


Erm, ask the Britannia game admin about that :clown:

Seriously though, the Britannia campaign is just totally unbalanced all round to be honest. England starts with more territories than everybody else combined! So I think it would be likely unplayable if you took away the scripted armies from Wales, Scotland and Norway. Do Ireland get any? I'm not sure...

[Visor]

Having played the Teutonic campaign in hotseats a fair many times, I suggest leaving the crusading nobles in. The Kalmar union should go. Basically install those fixes. ;)

Oh and Britannia is balanced if you follow the Scots v Norway and Ireland and Wales v England.

In one hotseat the last three factions were Norway, Ireland and Wales, neither betraying each other.

[Zim]

Based on Britannia hotseat experience here I'd put an even balance more as England versus Scotland, Ireland, and Wales, with Norway having some potential to break the balance. England is much more powerful than Wales and Ireland together. Of course, it depends far more on the relative skill (and some extent on luck) of the players. In the previous Teutonic game, everyone but the HRE (and eventually them when they saw how things were going) piled on the Teutons and they wiped the floor withe everyone else. Having the best autoresolve units in the campaign versus the much weaker ones of Lithuania and Novgorod helped, but it was the skill of the player in question that allowed him to take such advantage of that as to beat out everyone else on the map.


Having played the Teutonic campaign in hotseats a fair many times, I suggest leaving the crusading nobles in. The Kalmar union should go. Basically install those fixes. ;)

Oh an Bretinnia is balanced is you follow the Scots v Norway and Ireland and Wales v England.

In one hotseat the last three factions were Norway, Ireland and Wales, neither betraying each other.

[Visor]

Reminds me of Swarbs in THS 2, he won as the Order only because my stupid damn allies betraying me and destroying our only chance at stopping the Order. :(

You are forgetting Samagotian Axeman and Woodsmen. They kick ass.

[Zim]

In our case coordination was iffy and Denmark didn't commit. Poland seemed to be a relatively new player and the Order stomped them for cash, allowing them to focus on me (Novgorod) and Lithuania. The HRE joined in too late and just ended up being one more source for land for the Order... The Order was also played by one of our very best players.

I never had much luck with woodsmen in autoresolve, although I don't doubt they did much more damage than militia.

Makes me kinda wish I picked a faction more in the thick of things. Ah well, for Norway! :charge:


Reminds me of Swarbs in THS 2, he won as the Order only because my stupid damn allies betraying me and destroying our only chance at stopping the Order. :(

You are forgetting Samagotian Axeman and Woodsmen. They kick ass.

[_Tristan_]

The main thing is that the full power of the Teutons can only be unleashed if they control Catholic territories, as those give access to higher tier units... As such, taking lands from Novgorod (Orthodox) or Lithuania (Pagan) can be quite costly as any unit depleted in those conquests have to be sent back for retraining while attacking any other Catholic neighbour may offer retraining capabilities...:idea2:



Poland seemed to be a relatively new player and the Order stomped them for cash, allowing them to focus on me (Novgorod) and Lithuania.

Poland didn't get stomped for cash but rather for the greater training capacities it offered... The northermost Polish castle offered better unit types than even Marienburg did !!

Lack of coordination among the TO enemies was also of great help in the TO final success... A question of "too little, too late..."

[Zim]

Hmm, I thought it was because Poland starts with some of the biggest cities (in a concentrated area) and you wanted to sack them. :clown:

There was also the great "Lithuanian army accidentally ambushes Novgorodan one" debacle. Armies in hiding will ambush "neutral" armies and if the ambush is successful you can't flee to avoid troop loss. We were about a turn from getting diplomats to eachother as well. :furious3:


Poland didn't get stomped for cash but rather for the greater training capacities it offered... The northermost Polish castle offered better unit types than even Marienburg did !!

Lack of coordination among the TO enemies was also of great help in the TO final success... A question of "too little, too late..."

[_Tristan_]

There was also the great "Lithuanian army accidentally ambushes Novgorodan one" debacle. Armies in hiding will ambush "neutral" armies and if the ambush is successful you can't flee to avoid troop loss. We were about a turn from getting diplomats to eachother as well. :furious3:

I had forgotten about that... :laugh4: Still, I used that to my advantage by instillling doubt as to the commitment against the TO of certain factions... Any delay played in my favour...

One thing is that most players played true to their roles, which is why the HRE was reluctant to be at war against the order (that and the Order's promises to help them fight Denmark and keep any Danish territories conquered for themselves...)

All in all, it was a very tense game for the TO because reinforcements had to be brought on all fronts and tose reinforcements were costly...

[_Tristan_]

Hmm, I thought it was because Poland starts with some of the biggest cities (in a concentrated area) and you wanted to sack them. :clown:


Poland also offered a very defensible base as its southern border is off-limits... One more reason to be stomped early...

[Zim]

Just out of curiosity, was it me you tried to say wasn't commited? I pretty much ruined Novgorod to hire soldiers for you to kill. :clown:

In retrospect I think everyone involved was serious except maybe Denmark. They wanted to send very few troops while focusing on taking ai settlements. But then I didn't think they expected the Order to curbstomp everyone, and they had another nearer potential enemy in the HRE.


I had forgotten about that... :laugh4: Still, I used that to my advantage by instillling doubt as to the commitment against the TO of certain factions... Any delay played in my favour...

One thing is that most players played true to their roles, which is why the HRE was reluctant to be at war against the order (that and the Order's promises to help them fight Denmark and keep any Danish territories conquered for themselves...)

All in all, it was a very tense game for the TO because reinforcements had to be brought on all fronts and tose reinforcements were costly...

[_Tristan_]

Just out of curiosity, was it me you tried to say wasn't commited? I pretty much ruined Novgorod to hire soldiers for you to kill. :clown:

In retrospect I think everyone involved was serious except maybe Denmark. They wanted to send very few troops while focusing on taking ai settlements. But then I didn't think they expected the Order to curbstomp everyone, and they had another nearer potential enemy in the HRE.

I didn't say you weren't committed but that I tried to make you and Novgorod think you had betrayed one another (using the "debacle" to my advantage...) thus lessening your commitment for fear of a double-cross.

And all the while, it was Denmark I feared the most and which caused me the biggest difficulties... :laugh4:

I was walking a tight rope diplomatically in that game... Until Hell broke loose and I had to stomp every other faction...

[Zim]

What did Denmark end up doing? From our side it seemed they sent a few troops by sea and then kept mostly to Scandinavia trying to unite it.


I didn't say you weren't committed but that I tried to make you and Novgorod think you had betrayed one another (using the "debacle" to my advantage...) thus lessening your commitment for fear of a double-cross.

And all the while, it was Denmark I feared the most and which caused me the biggest difficulties... :laugh4:

I was walking a tight rope diplomatically in that game... Until Hell broke loose and I had to stomp every other faction...

[Myth]

Tristan de Castelreng is that good? Now I have to keep a closer eye on him in the "When world collide" game :D

When battles are taken out of the equation player skill can be determined by his strategical choices, the way he handles logistics and the way he prioritizes his objectives. Diplomacy and roleplaying I think are just as important, although they are tools to accomplish said objectives.

Then again I am new to hotseat games :)

[_Tristan_]

What did Denmark end up doing? From our side it seemed they sent a few troops by sea and then kept mostly to Scandinavia trying to unite it.

It didn't do much more than this but it remained a threat to my northernmost settlements and I always feared a seaborn invasion or raids... Though that fear was never proven true...


Tristan de Castelreng is that good? Now I have to keep a closer eye on him in the "When world collide" game :D

When battles are taken out of the equation player skill can be determined by his strategical choices, the way he handles logistics and the way he prioritizes his objectives. Diplomacy and roleplaying I think are just as important, although they are tools to accomplish said objectives.

Then again I am new to hotseat games :)

Most of my reputation comes from one or two hotseats where I've proven a tough fighter (though somewhat lucky), fighting teeth and nails to the end, and outliving the expectations of enemies...

And you're right that strategical choices and how you handle diplomacy are very important...

Roleplaying gives flavor but can make you predictable...

[phonicsmonkey]

I remember in that game I took over from the Mongols about 6 or 7 turns in when they were already in debt up to their eyeballs.

After failing to extort money out of my neighbours through empty threats I came up with the cunning plan of letting all my settlements rebel and then re-taking and sacking them all. Failing to realise that my own horse-archer forces would be somewhat less than sufficient in dealing with the full stacks of woodsmen that appeared as garrisons.

The next iteration of the plan involved getting Zim to sack them all for me and hand me the cash. About two turns into that scheme Tristan showed up with his uber-stacks and demonstrated to us the value of timing.

Anyhoo, where are we with the question of the extra Teutonic stacks?

Should we have a vote on it?

[Visor]

Haha. Completely the opposite of the third Teutonic hotseat. :P

The Order (My brother) got smashed by Lithuania (Swarbs), and I (Novgorod) smashed Lithuania's ally, the Mongols. (Emotion_name) Then the TO with their massive debt and one and a half armies, betrayed their ally Poland, who was smashing the HRE (Hellboy). Meanwhile, Denmark (Wolvvv) and Norway (tavix) were facing off for a while. The TO then destroyed Poland, and then Denmark and Lithuania invaded Scandanavia (me and him had a truce agreement.) Then Norway was killed and only Novgorod, TO, Lithuania, Denmark and the HRE were left, the HRE is practically dead though. And it was turning into a face-off.

Pity Swarbs left before we got a chance to finish it, it was quite fun. I'm going to reopen it and see if I can get some players to finish it off.

[Myth]

You already know my opinion. I'd ask you guys to not judge based solely on that last game where Tristan took you by surprise and where Poland was a sitting duck.

Crusading nobles (I've read up some in the guides section) do other things apart from giving you stacks. The guy from England gives you Levy Spearmen (average foot, but not OS level), Dism. Feudal Knights and Mailed Knights - hardly the most impressive stacks but I suppose better than nothing and better than archer/HA heavy stacks when autorseolve is on.

The crusading nobles also reward you with gold whenever you conquer pagan territories and exterminate/sack them. One player int the Teutonic Order guide thread said he got up to 14000 florins (or whatever the currency in this expansion is) for exterminating 4 pagan settlements and winning a couple of field battles.

I guess I should play 10 turns or so vs the AI to get the hang of the faction and see what is where and establish some priorities. Too bad I don't have access to the M2TW PC until Monday unless I get lucky.

[Visor]

I'm for Cruading Nobles.

[_Tristan_]

I don't mind either way... They surely didn't play a great part in my victory IIRC...

And I start far enough from Order lands that I should not have to worry about them too much this time...

[_Tristan_]

All set up and ready to go !!

[Thanatos Eclipse]

I don't care about the crusading armies

[Nightbringer]

I don't care either way.

[phonicsmonkey]

All set up and ready to go !!

Who else is all set? if the TO is ready we can get started today...

[Nightbringer]

I'm set

[_Tristan_]

I don't know if it is still possible at this point but one thing I've seen done in some hotseats is changing the order the factions played in order to give "weaker" factions a chance at being more on the offense...

Maybe make Norway and Mongols among the first and TO last with the rest spread in-between...

What do you guys think ?

[phonicsmonkey]

I'm happy to look into this if others are interested. We do have some rules in place to counter the effect of the turn order on movement, but I still think this is a good idea. I know it's possible because it's implemented in the KGCM hotseat patch.

[Nightbringer]

either way is fine by me

[Thanatos Eclipse]

All set up. Tristan's idea sounds good

[phonicsmonkey]

ok I found out how to do this, tested it and it's working.

if I put the weakest factions (according to the ingame charts) first, it would look like this:
- Norway
- Mongols
- HRE
- Novgorod
- Denmark
- Poland
- Lithuania
- Teutonic Order

so far I count four in favour which is only half, so do let me know what you think if you haven't already.

[Visor]

Standard style is fine by me.

[Myth]

I've modded the game and am ready to go. I have no problem with being last in the turn order, although if you guys think this campaign so imbalanced and the TO so scary I fail to see why you keep playing it instead of regular M2TW.

[_Tristan_]

It is not so much that it is imbalanced but the TO is so strong in autoresolve than 1/2 TO stack (and sometimes 1/4) can take on a full Lithuanian or Novgorad stack...

But I don't mind playing in the normal turn order... My proposal was made to give norway a chance at taking some rebels settlements before smeone else claims them, as it starts with only two of its own...

[Thanatos Eclipse]

It's not so much the TO, as it is the Mongols and Norway. This way it just gives the weaker factions first run at the rebel settlements

[phonicsmonkey]

although if you guys think this campaign so imbalanced and the TO so scary I fail to see why you keep playing it instead of regular M2TW.

We are striving for perfection Myth!

[phonicsmonkey]

ok I'm going to do this - however, with Zim away for the weekend I'll change it up a little so we can get a couple turns done before he's back, so:

- Mongols
- HRE
- Novgorod
- Norway
- Denmark
- Poland
- Lithuania
- Teutonic Order

I think the important thing for Norway at the start is that they go before Denmark.

I will need to modify descr_strat and I don't know whether everyone else will too, so the safest thing is that I upload mine and you all use it. Is that ok?

[_Tristan_]

Fine by me... If you can have it up in the next hour or so, I might even be able to play my turn before I turn off the lights for a good night's sleep...

[Myth]

Greay guys! Waiting for the file as well, though it is unlikely that I'll be able to play my turn today.

I did some testing and planning vs the AI. Yes it really seems that a stack wtih about 5 OS and additional troops and the general that starts up North can take on Lithuania's faction leader+second best general all by himself.

Also, Norway does indeed start with only one castle (albeit a very good one) whilst Denmark upon closer inspection seems to be by far the second most powerful nation on the map.

[phonicsmonkey]

The modified descr_strat file is linked in the first post of the game thread.

[Visor]

I hate Denmark. I never play them for a reason.