View Full Version : World Politics - Far-right Surge Shocks France
Sarmatian
03-07-2011, 18:07
Sanctions, sanctions...
Obviously we can not allow ultra-nationalist leaders in the heart of Europe, therefore I call for sanctions, air strikes and eventually direct occupation if all else fails.
On a serious, note, far-right leader Marine Le Pen, who inherited FN from her father, leads in the polls, 23 point to Sarko's 21. Presidential elections are supposed to take place next year. link (http://www.onislam.net/english/news/europe/451376-far-right-le-pan-leads-poll-shocks-france.html)
How serious is this? Is she gonna win? What would the consequences of that win be?
Gentlemen...
Louis VI the Fat
03-07-2011, 18:36
Shock? What shock? Ever read the posts of Meneldil lately, or, sadly, mine? It's sheer fascism galore.
As for Marine, she'll make it into the second round. There she will be defeated by a grand alliance, who'll vote with their noses held. It'll be 2002 all over again.
And you can keep your airstrikes until France descends into full fascism and starts etnically cleansing it gypsie population....
gaelic cowboy
03-07-2011, 19:00
This time may be differ though Louis surely unlike 2002 people wont get caught out wasting there voting thinking they can go back to there preferred socialist/conservative candidate in the second round.
At worst she soak few votes of Sarkozy but typical of any election she is making the running early always a bad sign for electability.
Right. First look at how the survey was done, then comment.
It is THE plan to push the French to vote “useful” so to vote for either Sarkozy or the IMF director the social traitor Dominique Strauss Khan.
I will not fall in the trap this time.
If, thanks to the social and economical politic followed by both of them, le Front National will succeed, it will be.
Unless the so-called Socialist Party comes back to the roots of socialism, I will not vote for the Party whose policies and actions are at best to accommodate the Conserva-thieve programme.
I will either abstain or vote Left (JL Melenchon, for the French).
Then, even if elected as president, the FN won’t be able to get a majority in the Parliament, so it would be fun.
gaelic cowboy
03-07-2011, 19:09
Well thats your right Brenus but ask yourself if it is good longterm for French elcetions to be having an election every couple of years where 20%-30% of your vote are from people who only voted for you cos the other fella was worse but they still hate your guy too. Eventually the people stop voting and they maybe marine whats her face does get through due to cynicism.
Sarmatian
03-07-2011, 19:19
Shock? What shock? Ever read the posts of Meneldil lately, or, sadly, mine? It's sheer fascism galore.
As for Marine, she'll make it into the second round. There she will be defeated by a grand alliance, who'll vote with their noses held. It'll be 2002 all over again.
So, she either wins in the first round or she doesn't win at all, huh? I don't know, look at the "commie" Brenus, he won't vote for Sarkozy even if it means Marine for president. I don't think this is so benign as you portray it.
And you can keep your airstrikes until France descends into full fascism and starts etnically cleansing it gypsie population....
You sure? They're going cheap these days...
Well thats your right Brenus but ask yourself if it is good longterm for French elcetions to be having an election every couple of years where 20%-30% of your vote are from people who only voted for you cos the other fella was worse
Why not, it works for Serbia... oh, I see your point...
Well thats your right Brenus but ask yourself if it is good longterm for French elcetions to be having an election every couple of years where 20%-30% of your vote are from people who only voted for you cos the other fella was worse but they still hate your guy too. Eventually the people stop voting and they maybe marine whats her face does get through due to cynicism.
I would like to be the first to say, Welcome to America!
gaelic cowboy
03-07-2011, 21:00
I would like to be the first to say, Welcome to America!
It's much simpler in Ireland we just have two centre right parties problem solved.
Rhyfelwyr
03-07-2011, 22:28
It's much simpler in Ireland we just have two centre right parties problem solved.
Who doesn't these days?
gaelic cowboy
03-07-2011, 22:32
Who doesn't these days? :laugh4:
Furunculus
03-07-2011, 22:32
On a serious, note, far-right leader Marine Le Pen, who inherited FN from her father, leads in the polls, 23 point to Sarko's 21. Presidential elections are supposed to take place next year. link (http://www.onislam.net/english/news/europe/451376-far-right-le-pan-leads-poll-shocks-france.html)
How serious is this? Is she gonna win? What would the consequences of that win be?
Gentlemen...
and not just Sarko's crowd, marine also out-polled the socialist crew.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/8364812/Marine-Le-Pen-would-beat-Nicolas-Sarkozy-in-presidential-election.html
Strike For The South
03-07-2011, 22:53
A few antagonizing brown people move in and the so called vanguard of the enlightinment goes reactionary so quick I nearly mistook them for Poles
I am dissapoint
Louis VI the Fat
03-07-2011, 23:02
A few antagonizing brown people move in and the so called vanguard of the enlightinment goes reactionary so quick I nearly mistook them for Poles
I am dissapointWhat if the enemies of the enlightenement simply happen to be brown? Must Reason and Republican values be abolished simply because their enemies are brown?
It is THE plan to push the French to vote “useful” so to vote for either Sarkozy or the IMF director the social traitor Dominique Strauss Khan.
I will not fall in the trap this time.Antisemite. :smash:
Strike For The South
03-07-2011, 23:05
What if the enemies of the enlightenement simply happen to be brown? Must Reason and Republican values be abolished simply because their enemies are brown?
The unknown and misunderstood is always feared. In 100 years when little muhammed has married your daughter and they go around firebombing churches and mosques you will be at peace
Tis a rough patch in your history, no reason to go off the deep end
Ok. The polls were done on line, without knowing who was answering the question. So, it is impossible to know the background of the “representative” panel.
Now, I think it is a deliberate manoeuvre from one of the Big Party (I suspect the Sarkozist one, but it is because I hope the “Socialist” Party kept some moral values from the past, that it didn’t abandon all of them on the road to Social-Democracy and “realism”).
They play back the music on which we are supposed to dance and I fear it will work. So instead to have the conserva-thieves we will have the Social Traitors lead by the actual director of the IMF, the same one who implements a program that makes Maggie looks like a soft lefty smoking herbs.
Abstention is the main problem because the betrayal of the result of the people votes. And the 2 main streams of the French political life are guilty of it.
So, whatever we vote we have the same policy.
I will not vote for the Sarkozy or the Conserva-thieves, but nor I will for the Social Democrats that are not social and democrat.
I will not be trap again in voting against a Le Pen, because this Le Pen is the creature built by these parties as the result of the increase of poverty, despair and uncertainty of the economical policy shared by the 2 parties.
They created Marine (and in fact her real name is Marie then few other names) they will deal with her.
I can’t see what worse she can do than the two others. The French laws will prohibit her to implement her programme and if she tries to modify the laws it will be rejected by the Constitution.
Don’t they see or smell the anger raising? Are they so blind they don’t see the turmoil coming?
Thanks to their stupidity they made the old slogan from the ultra left in 1968 “Election piege a Cons” (Election, trap for #£$£”%) a reality.
We voted, and they said it didn’t matter… We were, I was #£$£%ed.
They denied the corner stone, the base of Democracy that is the expression of the people by casting a vote. They are as much in contact with the reality than Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette were when dancing in the Tuilleries.
“Antisemite” Because I refuse to vote Sarkozy?:laugh4:
And I did vote Fabius.:smug2:
Isn't the burka ban about to take effect? That should solve all these problems.
Furunculus
03-08-2011, 00:09
I will not be trap again in voting against a Le Pen, because this Le Pen is the creature built by these parties as the result of the increase of poverty, despair and uncertainty of the economical policy shared by the 2 parties.
They created Marine they will deal with her.
^ word ^
if your mainstream parties fail to represent the electorate in a plurality system then watch and weep as the political extremes eat you lunch.
Rhyfelwyr
03-08-2011, 01:30
Is Marie le Pen even that extreme anyway? The first thing I noticed on the article is that she has disavowed her father's anti-semitism. As I always said, as these sorts of parties get bigger they will become more mainstream and lose the nastier elements. They are a good option when faced with the typical corrupt centre-right parties.
There is a far-right surge all over Europe, it is not limited to France.
And it will grow, and grow, and...
People are just being fed up with the multiculturalism, it has been tried and failed. Time to accept it and work out a reasonable solution. And no, far-right politics is absolutely not a reasonable solution, however, it is good that opposing voices are raised. Otherwise the debate never would get started.
Immigration has been a problem for years, but it is only now when the economy is down that people really start to object. The PC-phrase "we need more people to fill the jobs" worked when people had jobs. Now we have loads and loads of people wondering why the jobs and money gets thrown at Muhammed and KuntaKinte, while they get none. Similarly noticing how society at large grows colder and less pleasant for every immigrant crossing the border.
Rhyfelwyr
03-08-2011, 01:50
Immigration has been a problem for years, but it is only now when the economy is down that people really start to object. The PC-phrase "we need more people to fill the jobs" worked when people had jobs. Now we have loads and loads of people wondering why the jobs and money gets thrown at Muhammed and KuntaKinte, while they get none. Similarly noticing how society at large grows colder and less pleasant for every immigrant crossing the border.
This is the reality, and the left has to admit that it has failed the its own working-class communities, shame on Labour for becoming New Labour, New Conservatives would be a more appropriate name for them.
The fact is that immigration is very bad for our own working-classes. It might benefit business owners when they can use immigrants to dodge the minumum wage, and then middle-class liberal lefties get all offended when people point out that these people are taking jobs off the native population. And then they go and celebrate Ramadan to prove how 'tolerant' they are so they can feel all warm and fuzzy for sticking up for the poor immigrants.
But who are the ones that are really downtrodden? It is not the immigrants, but the people that can't get jobs because of them.
I have nothing against Muslims/Poles/whoever, it is not their fault since all they want to do is build a better life, fair play to them. The problem is the leftist and centre-right parties that do not respect the needs of their own population.
If the more self-proclaimed "englightened" folk get offended at such "reactionary" rantings, I suggest they go for a tour in Bradforstan. Have fun!
gaelic cowboy
03-08-2011, 02:01
I recently attended a wedding in Gloucester and was reliably informed the place was basically 70-80% muslim, it shocked me to be honest. Gloucester is like Tipperary to my mind, basically farming county with two biggish cities in it, practically rural conservative 30-35yrs ago I'd say so something like that only happens when it's let.
I have no idea what this can mean or if it really means anything but I got no doubt these EDL types make great Gloucester hay with it.
Rhyfelwyr
03-08-2011, 02:42
I can't find it now, but a guy over at TWC had a study that showed how the Muslims in Ireland were getting pretty radical. It was like I've always said, the first lot were fine, but its the younger generations that are born there that go all Wahhabi and global-jihad in the head. Over half of IIRC the under 26's wanted an Islamic state in Ireland.
SFTS is far too complacent, he makes out like there will be an inevitable path towards gradual assimilation, but that's not what's happening, in fact its the opposite, the young'uns are the crazies.
gaelic cowboy
03-08-2011, 03:45
I can't find it now, but a guy over at TWC had a study that showed how the Muslims in Ireland were getting pretty radical. It was like I've always said, the first lot were fine, but its the younger generations that are born there that go all Wahhabi and global-jihad in the head. Over half of IIRC the under 26's wanted an Islamic state in Ireland.
SFTS is far too complacent, he makes out like there will be an inevitable path towards gradual assimilation, but that's not what's happening, in fact its the opposite, the young'uns are the crazies.
Yea thats true apparently at least in a broad sense, luckily there small in number and probably likely to re-emigrate to Birmingham anyway. The extremists problem is that he does not have the big ghetto to breed islamo-extremism, they are exclusively for the whites I'm afraid. There has been actual isolated inter-islamic violence on occasion as the newer breed meet the older members of the community who tend to work in the medical profession etc etc there fully middle class and have no intention of setting up Lahore on the Liffey.
But the Gardai are fully aware of it and they must feel it is manageable as the major stuff would have to be organised at the mosques and we only have a few really, after that your trying to police thoughts etc and we will never need to be that safe we have to watch them in there homes.
Strike For The South
03-08-2011, 06:02
SFTS is far too complacent, he makes out like there will be an inevitable path towards gradual assimilation, but that's not what's happening, in fact its the opposite, the young'uns are the crazies.
As an American I am all to fimilar with this sort of thing
HO HUM
“Isn't the burka ban about to take effect? That should solve all these problems”: Aaaah, that is what Sarkozy and Co wanted the good people to believe and well, it worked very well. Now, the battered, despaired, poor exploited and unemployed French got a good scapegoat.
By a policy aimed to favour the Rich and to weaken even more the Poor and pointing to one part of the population, the 2 main parties have created a perfect storm trooper. Le PenTm is in better position to fill the position as people prefer original to the copy.
The problem is not emigration as such but the result of policies followed from years and years.
Not that there is no problem with some stupid youth “from the emigration” as portrayed by the French Media…
In order to give more money to the rich, they had to cut in Education (less teachers, no more surveyors), police forces (no more police of proximity), Armed Forces (no more National Service and Conscription). These three bodies were parts of the building of a citizenship. Wrecked by greed but as it was not enough they sold to relative, families and friends all the once efficient National Enterprises as EDF, SNCF, water supplies etc. This of course had as result to low down the services and to increase the prices. Last winter the National railways discovered trains stopped by dead leaves (same in UK by the way), problem never experimented before, but hey, they cut the maintenance staff to increase the profit.
By greed, they delocalised industries and large part of the French workers and employees were put on temporary contracts, in order to improve “competition” and “flexibility”.
The Social Contract guaranteed by the State (reason why we do have a State) was all forgotten for an Economical Model putting self-interest at its heart.
Because both main parties bowed to this system so created this situation (poverty and scapegoat), the French had no others options than to turn to what is left.
I don’t believe in this kind of survey. They are just tools to manipulate the public, to tell us what we think.
Le Pen will not be elected. France resisted Fascism before and it took an invader to impose one on the French.
The left still have one year to come back to their senses and to become an opposition and an alternative. If they do, they will crush Sarkozy and the conserva-thieve. If not, well, abstention will come and perhaps Marie Le Pen will become for few days President of the Republic and then will have to deal with an hostile parliament during 5 long years…
As an American I am all to fimilar with this sort of thing
HO HUM
The USA is different to Europe.
You had no strong cultural memes to begin with, or rather, the ones you had you wiped out or put in reservations. With original memes wipes out, it was far easier to make some sort of multicultural free for all. With that said, it is not like the US has been without it's own multicultural problems.
The US of A is not an example of working multiculturalism. It rather shows that for multiculturalism to work you need to wipe out the original memes, if anything.
Jugoslavia, Africa, Israel are better examples of the effect of multiculturalism. Or from my own country, Rosengård or Södertälje.
Banquo's Ghost
03-08-2011, 12:19
I'm encouraged by France's return to the hereditary principle for rulers (or aspiring ones). With the USA long since embracing hereditary dynasties, that's both the uppity "founding" republics back in the fold.
It's not quite Salic Law, but we can wait. :wink:
rory_20_uk
03-08-2011, 12:32
The USA is different to Europe.
You had no strong cultural memes to begin with, or rather, the ones you had you wiped out or put in reservations. With original memes wipes out, it was far easier to make some sort of multicultural free for all. With that said, it is not like the US has been without it's own multicultural problems.
The US of A is not an example of working multiculturalism. It rather shows that for multiculturalism to work you need to wipe out the original memes, if anything.
Jugoslavia, Africa, Israel are better examples of the effect of multiculturalism. Or from my own country, Rosengård or Södertälje.
I disagree. America was incredibly firm in forcing all newcomers to become American - one language, one country. Pleurality of religion was sort of allowed, but make no mistake it was a Christian country. Here we fall over ourselves to say that every other way of doing things is at least as good as ours if not better. Can't read an English leaflet? Oh, we'll translate it to whatever you speak, and get you a translator... Religion? Oh, they're all equally good of course. Better make sure no existing ones offend any newcomers. English flag? Oh, that's almost a racist symbol. National anthem? An embarassment. Swear allegance to the countrry or monarch? Praying east is almost the same, right?
~:smoking:
Strike For The South
03-08-2011, 14:14
The USA is different to Europe.
You had no strong cultural memes to begin with, or rather, the ones you had you wiped out or put in reservations. With original memes wipes out, it was far easier to make some sort of multicultural free for all. With that said, it is not like the US has been without it's own multicultural problems.
The US of A is not an example of working multiculturalism. It rather shows that for multiculturalism to work you need to wipe out the original memes, if anything.
Jugoslavia, Africa, Israel are better examples of the effect of multiculturalism. Or from my own country, Rosengård or Södertälje.
lol, yes only cherry pick those which support your theory
Rhyfelwyr
03-08-2011, 14:23
lol, yes only cherry pick those which support your theory
You were the one making blanket statements and making out that the experience of immigrant groups in Europe would all be the same as those in the USA.
He is not cherry-picking, all he did was say that every case was different.
I don't see how you can compare the experience of the Irish in the USA with that of some Wahhabi nutjob in the UK. Heck, you can't even compared the experience of some Wahhabi nutjob in the UK with that of, say, a secular Muslim from say Egypt in the UK.
Strike For The South
03-08-2011, 14:26
My blanket statement applies to nearly all migrant groups in history
Life always manages to continue
Louis VI the Fat
03-08-2011, 15:01
My blanket statement applies to nearly all migrant groups in history
Life always manages to continueLife goes on, yes. But what life? France will no longer be France, the centre of the universe for all things that matter in life. Instead, France will be a hybrid between Europe, North Africa, and black Africa. Otherwise known as hell.
I'd give anything to swap our immigrants for your hard-working Spanish speaking Catholics. Give me Pedro and Carlos over Ahmed and U'bubuntabulu anyday.
No mistake about it, the current demographic transition is every bit as momentuous as the Roman invasion, and moreso than the Frankish invasion. Both of which created a new, hybrid society. Yes, in two hundred years people will not be nostalgic to European France no more than I long for a pure Celtic Gaul, or a Gallo-Roman Gaul. People will be the product of assimilation, mixture, acculturation. But to me, I am witnessing a civilization of fifteen centuries coming to an end. I feel I should say a tearful goodbye to Sam and Peppin, set sail with the Elves to the lands in the West, and cue the closing credits.
Louis VI the Fat
03-08-2011, 15:02
“Isn't the burka ban about to take effect? That should solve all these problems”: Aaaah, that is what Sarkozy and Co wanted the good people to believe and well, it worked very well. Now, the battered, despaired, poor exploited and unemployed French got a good scapegoat.
By a policy aimed to favour the Rich and to weaken even more the Poor and pointing to one part of the population, the 2 main parties have created a perfect storm trooper. Le PenTm is in better position to fill the position as people prefer original to the copy.
The problem is not emigration as such but the result of policies followed from years and years.
Not that there is no problem with some stupid youth “from the emigration” as portrayed by the French Media…
In order to give more money to the rich, they had to cut in Education (less teachers, no more surveyors), police forces (no more police of proximity), Armed Forces (no more National Service and Conscription). These three bodies were parts of the building of a citizenship. Wrecked by greed but as it was not enough they sold to relative, families and friends all the once efficient National Enterprises as EDF, SNCF, water supplies etc. This of course had as result to low down the services and to increase the prices. Last winter the National railways discovered trains stopped by dead leaves (same in UK by the way), problem never experimented before, but hey, they cut the maintenance staff to increase the profit.
By greed, they delocalised industries and large part of the French workers and employees were put on temporary contracts, in order to improve “competition” and “flexibility”.
The Social Contract guaranteed by the State (reason why we do have a State) was all forgotten for an Economical Model putting self-interest at its heart.
Because both main parties bowed to this system so created this situation (poverty and scapegoat), the French had no others options than to turn to what is left.
I don’t believe in this kind of survey. They are just tools to manipulate the public, to tell us what we think.
Le Pen will not be elected. France resisted Fascism before and it took an invader to impose one on the French.
The left still have one year to come back to their senses and to become an opposition and an alternative. If they do, they will crush Sarkozy and the conserva-thieve. If not, well, abstention will come and perhaps Marie Le Pen will become for few days President of the Republic and then will have to deal with an hostile parliament during 5 long years…I agree with everything. Except that I see the immigration debate not as a distraction, but as one of the core issues in itself.
@Banquo - I shall post a devastating riposte to your provocation as soon as I have come up with one. Which may be, sadly, not any time soon. http://matousmileys.free.fr/depri.gif
No mistake about it, the current demographic transition is every bit as momentuous as the Roman invasion, and moreso than the Frankish invasion. Both of which created a new, hybrid society. Yes, in two hundred years people will not be nostalgic to European France no more than I long for a pure Celtic Gaul, or a Gallo-Roman Gaul. People will be the product of assimilation, mixture, acculturation. But to me, I am witnessing a civilization of fifteen centuries coming to an end.
I don't believe you.
Let's clarify a couple of things:
1) The timing couldn't have been worse. It's a bit of a cruel twist of fate, that most of the immigrants moving towards Europe nowadays come from the Arab world, and thus, are very likely to be Muslim. Apart from a general fear of outsiders, the increase of Islamic(?) terrorism in the last decades have had a bad effect on the perception of Arab and Berber immigrants to Europe. I don't blame them, it just doesn't really make sense. It's coincidental, but a very nasty coincidence, that a large part of the rotten youth that roams the streets have an Islamic background, even if they are not religious themselves. Not really religious at least.
2) Integration is desireable, but not really all that realistic. We can expect emigrants to try to retain at least a part of their culture, even if their vision of their culture has been lost. This girl I know went to live with Dutch immigrants in New Zealand who moved there about 40 years ago, for a couple of months. It was the first time she did "the clog dance". I haven't even seen anyone doing the clog dance here. I fear that the first-generation immigrants from the Arab world cling on to "traditions" that don't really exist anymore. When first-generation women wear a veil, I don't think it's because they do it because they're religiously convinced, it's because it's what they're used to do. It's what they saw their mothers do when they were that age, and so they're more likely to do it themselves. That, and it allows them to retain something from home. Like those Dutch New-Zealanders wearing clogs).
I think I should say here that it's absolutely vital that people learn to speak the language of the country they've moved to, but I don't think that a sizeable part of the second- and third-generation immigrants don't speak French.
Greyblades
03-08-2011, 18:06
I disagree. America was incredibly firm in forcing all newcomers to become American - one language, one country. Pleurality of religion was sort of allowed, but make no mistake it was a Christian country. Here we fall over ourselves to say that every other way of doing things is at least as good as ours if not better. Can't read an English leaflet? Oh, we'll translate it to whatever you speak, and get you a translator... Religion? Oh, they're all equally good of course. Better make sure no existing ones offend any newcomers. English flag? Oh, that's almost a racist symbol. National anthem? An embarassment. Swear allegance to the countrry or monarch? Praying east is almost the same, right?
~:smoking:
Preach it bro!
Strike For The South
03-08-2011, 19:30
Life goes on, yes. But what life? France will no longer be France, the centre of the universe for all things that matter in life. Instead, France will be a hybrid between Europe, North Africa, and black Africa. Otherwise known as hell.
I'd give anything to swap our immigrants for your hard-working Spanish speaking Catholics. Give me Pedro and Carlos over Ahmed and U'bubuntabulu anyday.
No mistake about it, the current demographic transition is every bit as momentuous as the Roman invasion, and moreso than the Frankish invasion. Both of which created a new, hybrid society. Yes, in two hundred years people will not be nostalgic to European France no more than I long for a pure Celtic Gaul, or a Gallo-Roman Gaul. People will be the product of assimilation, mixture, acculturation. But to me, I am witnessing a civilization of fifteen centuries coming to an end. I feel I should say a tearful goodbye to Sam and Peppin, set sail with the Elves to the lands in the West, and cue the closing credits.
15 centuries? Really?
History ebbs and flows, a little of this and that. To expect it to stop so one can bask in the achivements of his supposed civilization is tantamount to decadence
God created men, not dynasties
As much as we love to extrapploate 19th century America or 18th century France to our own times it can't be done. I am forever confidnet that enlightenment ideals will eventually destroy, tyrrany, oppersion and Arsenal FC. Now I am under no illusion this may not happen exactly the way I see it in my head nor will it nessicairily be linear but it WILL happen. I am just here for the ride, if I want to connect with the past I have my books. I see no need to demand my country grind to a halt becuase the barbarians are on the borders
HoreTore
03-08-2011, 21:50
The Enlightenment has already "destroyed" Arsenal, SFTS, pay attention.
Under two decades ago, Arsenal consisted almost entirely of Brits. And they played some of the most boring football the world has ever seen, rivalling that of the Italian christmas tree. They packed their own half and their objective was not to concede. It worked well too, Arsenal rarely conceded and almost never scored, 0-0 was the typical result and a 1-0 victory was hailed as a goal-fest. A 33-year old was considered a youth player.
Then a Frenchman, Arsene Wenger, took over. He swapped the ultra-boring english style with the continental french style. He transformed the squad by selling off or retiring the aging and dull brits, and replaced them with pacy and creative young french, african and dutch players. Before long, Arsenal became known as an entertaining and attacking side that focused on scoring goals and creating talent, and gained the respect of nearly everyone. And it gave results too - league titles and cup wins, and the longest unbeaten run in Premier League history at 49 games. Led by the French African Thierry Henry, they were unstoppable. They outplayed everyone, and they did so by free-flowing play through the middle - in a league that focuses on hard tackling midfielders. Their dominance ended only when the Russian Oligarchy ruined the EPL with economic steroids, which they simply did not have the funds to compete against.
But they stayed true to their style, convinced that the ideas of continental liberty was the way forward - and they have returned this season.
And this, I might add, comes from a Manchester United fan.
Sarmatian
03-09-2011, 09:37
The Enlightenment has already "destroyed" Arsenal, SFTS, pay attention.
Off topic: And what a total destruction it was. Enlightment scored 3 but should have scored more. :)
HoreTore
03-09-2011, 13:34
Off topic: And what a total destruction it was. Enlightment scored 3 but should have scored more. :)
Arsenal is the enlightenment, Barcelona is simply a superior enlightened side ~;) when I said that Arsenal was destroyed by the enlightenment, I was reffering to Wengers Arsenal having destroyed boring Arsenal, the Barca game still hadn't been played at the time I wrote that ~;)
Arsenal stopped being British, and it made them champions.
Meneldil
03-09-2011, 20:43
First of all, these poll were conducted in a very questionable way. It doesn't respect some of the most basic rules of sociology and polling. If anything, the results should be taken with a rather large pinch of salt.
Secondly, I am not surprised. I'm overall a die-hard leftist. I have a strong and weird fascination for Robespierre, the French Revolution and the historical french left as a whole. Gay marriage? It should have been done years ago. Abortion? No issue with me. Healthcare, nanny state? I'm all for it. I have a leftist stance on most political issues, as long as it doesn't harm society.
Despite that, I simply find myself agreeing with the far-right when it comes to immigrants and the whole lot of scumbags who plague my country. I overall can't stand most arabs anymore (so much in fact that their very presence makes me angry or uneasy). I know it's pretty bad. I also know I'm not the only one having this kind of feeling. I studied political sciences and journalism, two areas where most students are leftist. Well, most of my schoolmates think the same way.
Just go to some southern french cities (Nîmes, Béziers, Alès...) where a girl can't walk at night alone wearing a skirt without being called a whore or spit at. Where *anything* bad happening (from a rape to a thievery, or to some random guy insulting people in the street) is an arab's doing. I'm talking about downtowns here, not about cheesy neighborhoods. I cannot stand it anymore, and I honestly don't expect other people to stand it much longer either. At some point someone will get too fed up and do what's needed by himself. And if it takes the extreme right to fight the insidious green fascism that's slowly destroying our society, then so be it.
I already said it here I think, but my gf (a north american native) started to hate arabs after a few weeks spent in France. That's how bad it is.
Strike For The South
03-09-2011, 22:50
First of all, these poll were conducted in a very questionable way. It doesn't respect some of the most basic rules of sociology and polling. If anything, the results should be taken with a rather large pinch of salt.
Secondly, I am not surprised. I'm overall a die-hard leftist. I have a strong and weird fascination for Robespierre, the French Revolution and the historical french left as a whole. Gay marriage? It should have been done years ago. Abortion? No issue with me. Healthcare, nanny state? I'm all for it. I have a leftist stance on most political issues, as long as it doesn't harm society.
Despite that, I simply find myself agreeing with the far-right when it comes to immigrants and the whole lot of scumbags who plague my country. I overall can't stand most arabs anymore (so much in fact that their very presence makes me angry or uneasy). I know it's pretty bad. I also know I'm not the only one having this kind of feeling. I studied political sciences and journalism, two areas where most students are leftist. Well, most of my schoolmates think the same way.
Just go to some southern french cities (Nîmes, Béziers, Alès...) where a girl can't walk at night alone wearing a skirt without being called a whore or spit at. Where *anything* bad happening (from a rape to a thievery, or to some random guy insulting people in the street) is an arab's doing. I'm talking about downtowns here, not about cheesy neighborhoods. I cannot stand it anymore, and I honestly don't expect other people to stand it much longer either. At some point someone will get too fed up and do what's needed by himself. And if it takes the extreme right to fight the insidious green fascism that's slowly destroying our society, then so be it.
I already said it here I think, but my gf (a north american native) started to hate arabs after a few weeks spent in France. That's how bad it is.
Ah yes
It smacks of the segragationist south complete with protecting teh wimmenz
To pass draconian laws based on nothing more than the breach of ones comfort sets us back generations
Furunculus
03-09-2011, 23:01
Secondly, I am not surprised. I'm overall a die-hard leftist. I have a strong and weird fascination for Robespierre, the French Revolution and the historical french left as a whole. Gay marriage? It should have been done years ago. Abortion? No issue with me. Healthcare, nanny state? I'm all for it. I have a leftist stance on most political issues, as long as it doesn't harm society.
i understand and sympathasize with all you have said, but just thought it worth mentioning that although i am right wing i have no issue with gay marriage, abortion, or healthcare.
i think it will be one of the interesting trends of british politics in the coming years how the lib-dem's and the tories become more classically liberal, to the exclusion of the authoritarian nannying espoused by labour.
for the tories this means becoming more socially liberal, and for the lib-dem's more economically liberal.
An opening statement: we seem to forget that right-wing, left-wing, conservative and liberal are different in Europe than in the United States. Economic liberalism has been combined with social conservatism (inspired by/similar to/the same as(?) confessionalism) in the United States to such a degree that it would seem odd that the US conservatives who take great pride in their love of liberalism are so hell-bent against such things as abortion, gay marriage and the institution of such things as universal healthcare (although the last one is certainly defendable from a classical liberal perspective). Intriguing. Maybe we should seperate fiscal conservatism from social conservatism from confessionalism.
I overall can't stand most arabs anymore (so much in fact that their very presence makes me angry or uneasy).
I apologise for the perceived unruly behaviour of the Arabs. However, I fear you might be talking about the wrong ethnic group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berbers). As for me, I have no idea how to respond this kind of blatant racism. It's not because they're Arab or Berber, it's because they're :daisy: idiots. That's why. People with Ph D's don't have to emigrate to a country where the temperature is +/- 10 degrees Celsius colder, where the women look different. Like whores? I don't know.
But I've never heard any Arab from the middle-class and upward call anyone a whore. Not my family in conservative Constantine (Algeria), nor the sons of our business contacts in Cairo, nor our friends in Tunisia, nor the contacts from Syria, Iraq, or Libanon. I am not at all interested in coming up with a socio-economical or psychological explanation for this blatant racism founded only on personal observations by the merde de la merde of Arab society. I'm not impressed at all. And in fact, I'm quite horrified that such forms of racism continue even to this day.
There is a problem with youthsters messing stuff up. I don't think that anyone wants to deny that. But we're pointing at race, we're pointing at religion, we're not pointing towards what's more important to them; socio-economical conditions.
Cute Wolf
03-10-2011, 00:44
french is on the right track of liberation from those pesky immigrants :wink:
I imagine Le Pens will start making a gas chambers and concentration camps for muslims
...
wait, before that happened, make sure you gave them the Crown of France, if France goes back to Monarchic ruler, things would be moderated again. Remember that English republic under Cromwell are failed because Cromwell refused to take up the crown :D
lol, yes only cherry pick those which support your theory
I thought it would be obvious for any reader of mental capacity that my examples were used to highlight my point. Maybe I was unclear, or maybe the reader was unwilling or unable?
However, would you mind to explain your point further?
I grant that one might find examples of multiculturalism (barely) working. Jugoslavia up until it blew was a perfect example. Some might argue the US is (probably not the indians though).
However, for any example of multiculturalism working, I am sure there are 10 or so examples of it not working. Do you argue with this? Or were you just being argumentative on a more general level?
Strike For The South
03-10-2011, 14:53
All of your examples were states whose problems went very far beyoned "mulitculturalism"
Of course I don't expect to convert any Europeans, Evenetually you'll just get into one of those ungodly blood baths the continent seems to find itself in every 50 years
Furunculus
03-10-2011, 15:02
Of course I don't expect to convert any Europeans, Evenetually you'll just get into one of those ungodly blood baths the continent seems to find itself in every 50 years
*sighs* it's such an expensive bother when we have to come in and break up the fight. :toff:
Strike For The South
03-10-2011, 15:05
*sighs* it's such an expensive bother when we have to come in and break up the fight. :toff:
Fog across the channel, continent cut off :toff:
Dry as gin, that humor
gaelic cowboy
03-10-2011, 15:08
All of your examples were states whose problems went very far beyoned "mulitculturalism"
Of course I don't expect to convert any Europeans, Evenetually you'll just get into one of those ungodly blood baths the continent seems to find itself in every 50 years
*sighs* it's such an expensive bother when we have to come in and break up the fight. :toff:
I assume we will take our usual role of supplying workers to the UK again when the Great Powers go hammer and tongs at it.
Furunculus
03-10-2011, 15:17
the irish republic produced a lot of awesome soldiers for the british army during the wars.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recruitment_in_the_British_Army#Irish_regiments
Tellos Athenaios
03-10-2011, 15:28
There is a problem with youthsters messing stuff up. I don't think that anyone wants to deny that. But we're pointing at race, we're pointing at religion, we're not pointing towards what's more important to them; socio-economical conditions.
But while this is a genuine problem, it is also for the immigrant groups to solve themselves. It mostly is the change of mentality which Meneldil runs into. It includes having to change attitudes towards women, homosexuality, family honour and so on (people more affluent then you don't spend money on your business if you're obnoxious and backwards and there are 50 others eager to provide the same service). This has to come from within themselves, and ignoring that won't speed things up. Funny thing is that it does matter which background immigrants come from. For instance, here, Berber working class immigrants cause and have far more problems, than do Turkish immigrants -- and both migrated in from similar backgrounds of social backwardness and destitution.
gaelic cowboy
03-10-2011, 15:54
the irish republic produced a lot of awesome soldiers for the british army during the wars.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recruitment_in_the_British_Army#Irish_regiments
Yea my granduncle never came back from Flanders, and another one served in the US WW2 still another was a big noise in the US Air Force and another fairly distant one served his time in a German camp due to the retreat from Jersey he unfortunately was in jail when the British abandoned the Island and they must have forgot he was in jail.
Funny thing is that it does matter which background immigrants come from. For instance, here, Berber working class immigrants cause and have far more problems, than do Turkish immigrants -- and both migrated in from similar backgrounds of social backwardness and destitution.
I won't deny that. But I don't think it's the most important factor. And it takes some time to adapt, surely, as we can see with the Turkish immigrants, as you rightly pointed out.
All of your examples were states whose problems went very far beyoned "mulitculturalism"
Of course I don't expect to convert any Europeans, Evenetually you'll just get into one of those ungodly blood baths the continent seems to find itself in every 50 years
They were? Yugoslavia as an example, what other issues were there?
Will you try to further the topic this time around?
Strike For The South
03-10-2011, 18:08
They were? Yugoslavia as an example, what other issues were there?
Will you try to further the topic this time around?
It's generaly how I get my point across
Louis VI the Fat
03-11-2011, 01:02
*sighs* it's such an expensive bother when we have to come in and break up the fight. :toff:Nah. Standard procedure is for Britain to get itself in yet another spot of bother from which it is then saved by America.
The idea that the continent starts wars which are ended by Britain, firmly aloof, breaking up the quarrelsome children, is hypernationalist nonsense, and mildly insulting. It belongs to the realm of nationalist fantasy, such as that Poland would've won WWII if only blahblah, or that France liberated herself, or that WWII was won when Frodosevelt threw a ring in the Vesuvius. Sheer fantasy, the lot of it.
Britain has always been a full member of the European state system. Never as an outsider, but as a most active and agressive participant, notably in the build up to the two most recent continent wide conflagrations.
That's what you get if you pray to multiculture, religious fundalism breeds political fundalism. Have fun with the FN
Furunculus
03-11-2011, 11:41
N........... quarrelsome children, is hypernationalist nonsense, and mildly insulting. .............
Louis' new favourite phrase; hyper-nationalist. lol.
i think Frenchmen should surrender to the immigrants as usual, and accept that they are inferior in terms of fertility, that just repeat the migration effect they do on ancient gaul. That's quite natural, according to natural selections, that French are inferior in terms of overall fertility rate compared with immigrants.
Just start :daisy: more and create more babies to outnumber them
I'm just glad the multiculturalism doesn't affect vital organs here, the prognoses was on time. FN is not the answer they are another problem, nice. It would be nice if the left just admitted they were wrong all the time. Absolutely unthinkable that they will though because it would mean they aren't 100% right. How could you NOT see this happening dear gutmensch? FN is scum they aren't rightwingers, they are white supremacy :daisy:. They won't make it to the second round as usual, but all they need is patience, and they know it. Get to work.
Strike For The South
03-11-2011, 22:38
The Enlightenment has already "destroyed" Arsenal, SFTS, pay attention.
Under two decades ago, Arsenal consisted almost entirely of Brits. And they played some of the most boring football the world has ever seen, rivalling that of the Italian christmas tree. They packed their own half and their objective was not to concede. It worked well too, Arsenal rarely conceded and almost never scored, 0-0 was the typical result and a 1-0 victory was hailed as a goal-fest. A 33-year old was considered a youth player.
Then a Frenchman, Arsene Wenger, took over. He swapped the ultra-boring english style with the continental french style. He transformed the squad by selling off or retiring the aging and dull brits, and replaced them with pacy and creative young french, african and dutch players. Before long, Arsenal became known as an entertaining and attacking side that focused on scoring goals and creating talent, and gained the respect of nearly everyone. And it gave results too - league titles and cup wins, and the longest unbeaten run in Premier League history at 49 games. Led by the French African Thierry Henry, they were unstoppable. They outplayed everyone, and they did so by free-flowing play through the middle - in a league that focuses on hard tackling midfielders. Their dominance ended only when the Russian Oligarchy ruined the EPL with economic steroids, which they simply did not have the funds to compete against.
But they stayed true to their style, convinced that the ideas of continental liberty was the way forward - and they have returned this season.
And this, I might add, comes from a Manchester United fan.
A man U fan? Life must be tough
I meant destroy as in literally wipe off the face of the earth. But yea Contential footie>English footie by leaps and bounds
“That's what you get if you pray to multiculture, religious fundalism breeds political fundalism. Have fun with the FN”:
I think you should read the French Constitution.
I will have fun with the FN as they are just nothing, an old idea. Marie La Pen is dangerous because the active complicity of the media and the journalists who avoid to ask questions.
And by the way, the FN existed BEFORE the “islamist” movement and started to rise in 1981 when the Socialists won the elections and when the “moderate” righties parties has predicted the Soviet Tanks in Paris within the 2 weeks after this election.
Marie La Pen got her 2 kids baptised in an Ultra Catholic Sect occupying illegally a property of the Catholic Church. That is for her “laicité”.
Then how the blond millionaire will even have a clue of living in suburbs or to know what having financial difficulties as to live with the Social Minimum is still a mystery she should have to answer when (or if) the journalist decided to do their jobs.
That is if their job is to question Politicians and not to make the bed for the two main parties…
Her program in economy is a farce at best. Well, if she has a idea of what she wants to do of course as she changes her programme around every 6 months.
Now, the only solid and constant program she inherited and agreed with from her father is the hate for illegal and legal immigration.
After years of propaganda and real problems it is easy to play on this.
As shown in several interventions of my fellow French in this debate, immigrates’ kids create problems and of course, by definition, the ones who don’t are unnoticed.
Now, these are French so can’t be expelled.
She is a gigantic lie, and knows it. She is allowed on the TV show because it will create a “republican” reflex that will benefit to the 2 main parties.
These 2 parties having the same policy have a problem of credibility and need all the media support to be able to convince the French to, first, go to vote, second, to vote for them. And the only what to do so is to create a bib wild wolf that will convince the good people there is a danger…
It was played before.
But this time, I won’t go for it.
“that French are inferior in terms of overall fertility rate compared with immigrants.” Interesting. From where do you take your figures?
HoreTore
03-11-2011, 23:48
A man U fan? Life must be tough
I meant destroy as in literally wipe off the face of the earth. But yea Contential footie>English footie by leaps and bounds
I live on the past memories of the time Giggsy was in his prime...
She is a gigantic lie, and knows it. She is allowed on the TV show because it will create a “republican” reflex that will benefit to the 2 main parties.
Kinda got the feeling that happened last time when Le Pen hammered on Sarkozy being jewish. Was he actually helping him or is he an even bigger idiot than I thought he is? At least it hurted the socialists nicely.
Furunculus
03-16-2011, 18:16
lol, gaddafi's gift to marine:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100080118/gaddafi-funded-sarkozy-if-true-this-is-a-magnificent-gift-to-marine-le-pen/
Louis VI the Fat
03-16-2011, 18:26
lol, gaddafi's gift to marine:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100080118/gaddafi-funded-sarkozy-if-true-this-is-a-magnificent-gift-to-marine-le-pen/Curious. We'll have to wait and see what son-of can come up with. He's got every incentive to lie trough his teeth, what with Sarko's agressive stance against Gaddafi.
Then again, it is also clear that half of Italy's politicians are on the Libya payroll (the other half being paid by Russia, and another half by the mafia - when applying Italian accounting three halves can still be one, I blame it on Catholic doctrine).
It is also clear that morality is no consideration whatsoever in Sarkozy's pick of personal friends and donors.
Furunculus
03-16-2011, 23:00
Curious. We'll have to wait and see what son-of can come up with. He's got every incentive to lie trough his teeth, what with Sarko's agressive stance against Gaddafi.
Then again, it is also clear that half of Italy's politicians are on the Libya payroll (the other half being paid by Russia, and another half by the mafia - when applying Italian accounting three halves can still be one, I blame it on Catholic doctrine).
It is also clear that morality is no consideration whatsoever in Sarkozy's pick of personal friends and donors.
but we kind of expect that from italy*, whereas france is a civilised nation that can hold its head up high in international affairs, surely?
* racism alert!!!!
Louis VI the Fat
03-17-2011, 00:29
but we kind of expect that from italy*, whereas france is a civilised nation that can hold its head up high in international affairs, surely?
Ai! I think I forgot to write a sentence which I had in my mind:
'half of Italy's politicians are on the Libya payroll....and the sorry lot currently in power in France are never far behind so I wouldn't be surpised.'
It's in the genes. When there is some prospect for private gain for a client or friend French and Italian politicians are every inch as corrupt as British politicians. :shrug:
Dossier to show Labour 'complicit' in Lockerbie release
The former Labour Government was “complicit” in Libya’s efforts to secure the release of the Lockerbie bomber, a dossier of previously secret documents being published on Monday is expected to suggest.
The release of the files comes after The Daily Telegraph disclosed papers obtained by WikiLeaks (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/) showing that ministers secretly advised Muammar Gaddafi's Libyan regime on how to secure the bomber's freedom.
David Cameron will today release dozens of confidential letters, 150 pages of documents, memos and minutes of meetings that are said to provide a "comprehensive" picture of the last government's involvement in freeing Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed Al Megrahi.
Mr Cameron and Hillary Clinton, the US Secretary of State, issued a joint statement at the weekend in which they "strongly agreed" that the decision had been a mistake. Link to hypernationalist tabloid rag (:beam:): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/8307082/Dossier-to-show-Labour-complicit-in-Lockerbie-release.html
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