Dragon Age 2: Gameplay and Discussion

[Monk]

Because the other thread is about origins and is too long it's about time this game got its own thread. It'll be unlocking the 8th at 00:00 according to Bioware forums for NA (A little under 12 hours from now), so i figure its about time we made a thread to direct discussion. Times when the game is available listed below.


Unlocking is based on the official game release date for the region you live in. The PC versions, both digital and retail, will unlock beginning at the following times:
Asia/Pacific region – 0000h on March 8th

Canada & United States – 0000h on March 8th

Russian Federation - 0200h on March 8th

Western Europe – 0000h on March 10th

Australia & New Zealand – 0000h March 9th

Central and South America - 1700h March 10th

Eastern Europe – 0000h March 11th

Great Britain & Ireland – 0000h March 11th

Please keep all plot based discussion that has relevance in spoiler tags so the rest of us who don't have it yet know what to avoid.

[Kekvit Irae]

http://gamrfeed.vgchartz.com/story/84352/gdc-2011-dragon-age-ii-signifficantly-shorter-and-more-cinematic/


Dragon Age: Origins
1,000,000 Words
1,000 Cinematics
1,000 Characters
56,000 Spoken Lines
60 Hours of Gameplay

Dragon Age II
400,000 Words
2,500 Cinematics
500 Characters
38,000 Spoken Lines
40 Hours of Gameplay

Also...

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2011/03/04/10-things-you-should-know-about-dragon-age-ii.aspx
tl;dr:

1. Combat is Dragon Age meets Dynasty Warriors.
2. Classes cant be jack of all trades.
3. Inventory got the Mass Effect 2 treatment.
4. Skills are gone.
5. I hope you enjoy Kirkwall. You'll be seeing it a LOT.
6. "Not The Usual BioWare Story" I have nothing more to add.
7. Don't like certain party members? Tough. They stick with you no matter how much of a mabari you are to them.
8. Hope you like the Mass Effect dialogue wheel.
9. You know all that time you spent playing DA:O so you can see what affected DA2? Gone, reconned, or barely mentioned.
10. 40 hours total. This is pretty liberal, considering I've seen some reviews saying 20.


I feel bad I wasted 60 bucks on a preorder. :(

[Scienter]

This makes me kind of sad. I enjoyed DA:O. I need to read some more reviews. I know I'm going to play it, I just hope it isn't super disappointing.

[Kekvit Irae]

I enjoyed DA:O.

I did too. Steam clocks me in at 321 hours of total playtime. 33.3 just from this week.
DA2 had better be good, otherwise I'm going to throw a major fit.

[Mailman653]

DA2 Review, 4 out of 5 (http://xbox360.gamespy.com/xbox-360/dragon-age-2/1154336p1.html)
Dragon-Age-2---High-Resolution-Texture-Pack (http://www.fileplanet.com/218983/210000/fileinfo/Dragon-Age-2---High-Resolution-Texture-Pack)

[Husar]

I read a german review earlier today that said it's generally a good RPG, better than most, but a huge disappointment for the author, who also liked DA:O.
They gave DA:O 90% and DA2 got 82%.

Among the major complaints were enemies spawning in waves, that the strengths of DA:O hadn't been strengthened further (like love affairs etc. having almost no effect). Controls, especially on consoles, being too complicated and that levels had been re-used too often, one instance of that annoyed the author especially since two important fights take place in almost the same area, which has been recycled for the second one. Also the scale he said, had been reduced, at least in feeling, from world-changing events to local community politics and that it isn't all that clear in the beginning why you have to do all that you do.

My impression is that instead of building on the strengths of the previous game, they decided to make it more "cool", with the faster animations, more blood, the mage doing some kind of raindance etc.
In a way that's fine buit it appears they forgot that the rest is also important.

Also Qunaris got horns now. :tongue:

[Monk]

1. Combat is Dragon Age meets Dynasty Warriors.

Wat. If it makes you feel better i've had to think and plan fights for DA2 a lot more than I ever did for Origins.


2. Classes cant be jack of all trades.

The combat focus is more on chaining moves together across classes. Like having Varric use a shatter move on enemies your mage froze. When it came to the higher difficulties in Origins no class could be a jack of all trades. You needed specialists or you didn't survive - same thing here only you feel it on the lower difficulties to some extent as well.


3. Inventory got the Mass Effect 2 treatment.

That implies there's no inventory, because you know: Mass Effect 2 didn't have one. That's so incredibly untrue in for Dragon Age 2.


4. Skills are gone.

I don't even know what you're talking about. Things like lockpicking and crafting? Uh.. rogues can lockpick still and the crafting system is more open. You find recipes, NPCs make stuff.


5. I hope you enjoy Kirkwall. You'll be seeing it a LOT.
Yeah pretty much, one of the one things i dislike about the game thus far. The main story takes place within and around the city. You do some dungeon hopping and fight some really cool battles in other locations. Deep roads, bandit infested beeches, ect, but the story's grounded in the city.


6. "Not The Usual BioWare Story" I have nothing more to add.

Well.. people were complaining that Bioware only tells the same structured story when DA:O came out. I remember that as one of the major complaints of the game.. same old Bioware.


7. Don't like certain party members? Tough. They stick with you no matter how much of a mabari you are to them.

Yeah that's a cool story. Too bad its total bull. I lost both Carver and Isabella during my first play through :(


8. Hope you like the Mass Effect dialogue wheel.

I do, thanks!


9. You know all that time you spent playing DA:O so you can see what affected DA2? Gone, reconned, or barely mentioned.

Um. What? I've run into countless people from Origins that my warden left around. In fact I'd think bioware put way too many ties into my playthrough of the first game, it feels like half the people i knew ended up in Kirkwall.


10. 40 hours total. This is pretty liberal, considering I've seen some reviews saying 20.

Origins took me 23 hours to complete on Normal in my final go through. Hour count is pretty unreliable.

Seriously.. I don't like everything in DA2 and there's some serious cons that I want to talk about once i finish my go. But good lord there's some outlandish fabrications on the internet, and about the craziest stuff.

[TinCow]

Only about 20 mins in so far, but I kind of like the combat system. The camera is so far a pain in the butt, but it's satisfying in the same way that ME2 combat was satisfying. It seems to fit the game better than the combat system in DA:O did. DA:O failed whenever it tried to be Baldur's Gate, so I think it's a step forward for Bioware to stop pretending that the game is something it's not.

That said... 20 mins. We'll see what I think after I've played for several solid hours.

[Monk]

Only about 20 mins in so far, but I kind of like the combat system. The camera is so far a pain in the butt, but it's satisfying in the same way that ME2 combat was satisfying. It seems to fit the game better than the combat system in DA:O did. DA:O failed whenever it tried to be Baldur's Gate, so I think it's a step forward for Bioware to stop pretending that the game is something it's not.

That said... 20 mins. We'll see what I think after I've played for several solid hours.

I'm sorry to report that you may be struggling with the camera all game. I really miss the top-down view for lining up Area of effect spells.

[Greyblades]

Yeah that's a cool story. Too bad its total bull. I lost both Carver and Isabella during my first play through :(


First play through? It's only been out a day and you're on your second run?

[Monk]

First play through? It's only been out a day and you're on your second run?

Nah, but i've enjoyed it thus far and plan to do another when i'm done. Sadly i'm stuck about 15 hours in unable to go forward. Too busy :(

[Scienter]

I second TinCow on the camera issues, they make me pause combat a lot. I uploaded my old save game so hopefully I'll see the impact of my decisions from DA:O. I like the combat system too, though the cooldown on potion drinking will be hard to get used to. I like it though, it makes me rely less on them.

[Kekvit Irae]

That implies there's no inventory, because you know: Mass Effect 2 didn't have one. That's so incredibly untrue in for Dragon Age 2.
I was able to buy/switch out arms and armor in ME2, or was that just a dream?



I don't even know what you're talking about. Things like lockpicking and crafting? Uh.. rogues can lockpick still and the crafting system is more open. You find recipes, NPCs make stuff.
News flash: Lockpicking was a talent, not a skill. I'm talking about things like Survival and Coersion. Having a character able to do everything, based on class or ability scores, takes out the stategic element in leveling up.



Well.. people were complaining that Bioware only tells the same structured story when DA:O came out. I remember that as one of the major complaints of the game.. same old Bioware.
The plot of Origins was certainly not bad. I'd rather have something familiar (and something a company excels in) than something completely new. I didn't have to stay in Denerim if I didn't want to.


I do, thanks!
Good for you. But for those of us who want more than just Good/Neutral/Bad/Investigate, I'll take the expansive dialogue choices of DA:O.


Um. What? I've run into countless people from Origins that my warden left around. In fact I'd think bioware put way too many ties into my playthrough of the first game, it feels like half the people i knew ended up in Kirkwall.
Then please explain to me why Connor was freed from the desire demon when I loaded up a save where I allowed the demon to have her way with him? Talent point > some dumb kid's soul.




Origins took me 23 hours to complete on Normal in my final go through. Hour count is pretty unreliable.
And your first playthrough?


I'm not saying the game is bad, I'm saying the same is not what I expected nor wanted.

[Beskar]

It was pretty obvious what you were getting with Dragon Age 2 and it was obvious from the 'get go' that it will be different.

- From what I have seen from the combat system, it is an improvement over DA:O. I rather have "raindance" which looks stylish combat wise, then "uuuuuhuhhhhhoooooooooo uuuhhhttttttthhhhhhh" slowmo action the mage did in DA:O. The speed ups were much needed.
- As for 'skills', they were pretty useless in DA:O, since I went exactly the same way each time, there was no need for variation since they threw lots of skills at you anyway. As for "I HAD CHOICE", no you never, only rogues could lock pick, and it wasted a ton of points which would have been better spent elsewhere, it is an improvement.
- Inventory was an improvement for the party members, since they keep their own personal styles. In real life, I wouldn't be holding down Alistair, stripping him naked and forcing him to wear some other random gear than his beloved heirloom templar armour.
- Mass Effect dialogue wheel and voice acting was an improvement and so far, it seems to be the same about of choices.

[Monk]

I was able to buy/switch out arms and armor in ME2, or was that just a dream?

Dragon age 2 hasn't been perfect but let's be honest about it please. The inventory system in DA2 through simplistic, is far more than ME2 ever had. You actually pick up items, potions, and junk that you can exchange with a vendor. ME2 had sliders that determined what armor/weapons you carried.


News flash: Lockpicking was a talent, not a skill. I'm talking about things like Survival and Coersion. Having a character able to do everything, based on class or ability scores, takes out the stategic element in leveling up.

Point taken. But can do without the NEWS FLASH next time.


Then please explain to me why Connor was freed from the desire demon when I loaded up a save where I allowed the demon to have her way with him? Talent point > some dumb kid's soul.

Haven't experienced anything like that. Could be an oversight like what happened with Conrad in ME2. No matter how you treat him in ME1, he still thinks you were a total jerk who put a gun to his face. Thus far everything i've seen has been in line with what I did in Origins.


And your first playthrough?

34-36ish. Second playthrough was 25. Seriously, i have no idea how people ended up with these crazy numbers of 90 and 100 hours of play for origins. But I guess i just finish RPGs quicker than some :shrug:


I'm not saying the game is bad, I'm saying the same is not what I expected nor wanted.

There's been things i dislike strongly about the game thus far so I'd wager you and I might agree on a certain number of points. But some things i've seen claimed online I just don't see in the final product. I don't know how else I can describe that.

[Kekvit Irae]

Dragon age 2 hasn't been perfect but let's be honest about it please. The inventory system in DA2 through simplistic, is far more than ME2 ever had. You actually pick up items, potions, and junk that you can exchange with a vendor. ME2 had sliders that determined what armor/weapons you carried.

Point. However, there are those, like me, in the gaming community who actually complexity in their inventory management systems or whatever. My loudest complaint about ME2 (besides being a Gears of War wannabe) was the removal of the strategic element in picking the right mods, weapons, and armor for the right situation. If balance was an issue- and it was, since you could blow through the game holding down the fire button with the right mods- then they could have nerfed/toned down the mods, weapons, and skills, not completely remove them.




Point taken. But can do without the NEWS FLASH next time.
My apologies. From the way you were writing, I felt like you were being antagonistic.




Haven't experienced anything like that. Could be an oversight like what happened with Conrad in ME2. No matter how you treat him in ME1, he still thinks you were a total jerk who put a gun to his face. Thus far everything i've seen has been in line with what I did in Origins.
I hope that it wont effect my game very much, if at all. I'm very careful about the choices I make in roleplaying games. My character wanted more power, and didn't give a single thought to the safety of that little kid. Having it retconned felt like a slap in the face. It was a choice that was more personally involving than Conrad sidequest.


34-36ish. Second playthrough was 25. Seriously, i have no idea how people ended up with these crazy numbers of 90 and 100 hours of play for origins. But I guess i just finish RPGs quicker than some :shrug:
I believe mine was around 50-60ish. Most of that time was spent hunting down side quests and being utterly confused as to what to do or what choices I should make. And save-scumming. Lots of save-scumming.


There's been things i dislike strongly about the game thus far so I'd wager you and I might agree on a certain number of points. But some things i've seen claimed online I just don't see in the final product. I don't know how else I can describe that.
I wont have a complete opinion until I play the game the entire way through, and it'll have to wait until I have completed my Awakening game to see what else can transfer.

[Monk]

My apologies. From the way you were writing, I felt like you were being antagonistic.

My bad then. :bow:


I believe mine was around 50-60ish. Most of that time was spent hunting down side quests and being utterly confused as to what to do or what choices I should make. And save-scumming. Lots of save-scumming.

That may be it then. I normally restrict myself to main-plot and all companion quests, simply because i tend to 'get lost' and lose interest if i try to hunt down everything. I also tend to ignore DLC on subsequent play throughs.. except for Shale. Loves me that Shale. :sweetheart:


- From what I have seen from the combat system, it is an improvement over DA:O. I rather have "raindance" which looks stylish combat wise, then "uuuuuhuhhhhhoooooooooo uuuhhhttttttthhhhhhh" slowmo action the mage did in DA:O. The speed ups were much needed.
- Mass Effect dialogue wheel and voice acting was an improvement and so far, it seems to be the same about of choices.

Combat feels really fun as do some of the bigger boss battles. The Deep Roads has to be my favorite thus far in terms of boss movement, positioning and tactics. Really, it reminds me of running raids in WoW. Telling people to not stand in fire and then starring at disbelief when they do anyway. Can't count the times i've muttered a variety of curses towards Anders. Always finding ways to stand where he shouldn't...

As for the wheel system it has for the most part been a change I like, but I am really hating party interaction. Without spoiling too much my party doesnt feel like my team, like they did in Origins. They just feel like friends who hang around and get into trouble with me from time to time. It makes sense, i guess, since we're not out to save the world - but I'd be lying if i said i didn't miss feeling like The A Team.

[Kekvit Irae]

Really, it reminds me of running raids in WoW. Telling people to not stand in fire and then starring at disbelief when they do anyway.

Oh man, tell me about it. I hate running Cata Heroics. There's always that *one* person in the group. DA:O wasn't much better, but at least I could pause and take control.

[TinCow]

Played a few hours now and have some more comments.

-I'm getting used to the camera and am able to manage it, but it's still a horrible system which was clearly imposed due to console requirements. Stupid consoles. :angry:
-I'm startled by the load speeds of pretty much everything. My computer is decent but certainly not a speed machine by modern standards, yet everything, from the game to saves to new areas, loads in about 5 seconds flat. I've never seen a game load that fast.
-I like combat. It's quick and intuitive and sufficiently challenging to be interesting (playing on Hard, though had to drop to Normal for the early-game Ogre fight). I love me some Infinity Engine style tactical combat and I love me some ME2 style action combat. Everything that tries to be halfway between those seems to be less enjoyable than the extremes, and I count DA:O in that category. I'm glad they didn't try to stay in the middle with DA2.
-I like the ME2 conversation wheel in ME2, but for some reason it doesn't seem to fit as well in DA2. Yes, it works, but it makes me far more aware that I'm playing an RPG-on-rails. ME1 was on rails, so that was fine for ME2, but DA:O kept trying to insist it wasn't on rails, so their decision to not even try and disguise it in DA2 is a bit jarring.
-Inventory system is fine. Here they walk the line between Infinity Engine and ME2 and succeed. We get loot, but management of it is easy and I don't have to do the hand-me-down dance with my entire party every single time I get a new piece of armor. I approve.

[seireikhaan]

Ok, game has some pretty good strong points. Combat is more balanced- a 3 mage party doesn't walk in and win fights. Talents all seem somewhat useful. Textures are nicer. Armors look much nicer. Voice acting is all pretty good. Not having much of a problem on the pc camera, although I do miss being able to pan top-down.

However, a lot of the fights in general aren't well designed- I don't need four waves of assassins dropping out of nowhere on me in a back alley just because its night. Party mechanics don't feel nearly as good as Origins. Pretty much echoing Monk's comments there. My biggest irk so far is reused levels- there's been like two different cavern levels that I've run like 20 times fighting different enemies. Thankfully the Deep Roads offered something new. HOWEVER.... whoever designed the Rock Wraith fight deserves to be canned. Horrible, terrible, awful fight.

[Monk]

Ok, game has some pretty good strong points. Combat is more balanced- a 3 mage party doesn't walk in and win fights. Talents all seem somewhat useful. Textures are nicer. Armors look much nicer. Voice acting is all pretty good. Not having much of a problem on the pc camera, although I do miss being able to pan top-down.

However, a lot of the fights in general aren't well designed- I don't need four waves of assassins dropping out of nowhere on me in a back alley just because its night. Party mechanics don't feel nearly as good as Origins. Pretty much echoing Monk's comments there. My biggest irk so far is reused levels- there's been like two different cavern levels that I've run like 20 times fighting different enemies. Thankfully the Deep Roads offered something new. HOWEVER.... whoever designed the Rock Wraith fight deserves to be canned. Horrible, terrible, awful fight.

Target aquisition feels.. off. Avelyn is my go to bruiser/tank and i love to run heavy ranged groups. Typically i'll have two mages (hawke and anders), Varric for shatter combos and miasma, and then Ave. This means that Ave is really the only person in my party who can take a hit and not get burned down. Most the time it runs swell, but every over fight she'll go charging way into the back of the enemy ranks to focus on an archer first.. when there's two assassin's that need threat on them starring my team in the face. I'm not sure if it's a case of tactics or just the AI not picking its targets smart.

Anyway I've been able to play some more and i'm a sufficient point in where I can comment on a couple things. I've already mentioned my two biggest negatives thus far, party interaction and targeting mechanics. Khaan mentioned the third which is the repeating dungeon maps - it bothers me but not to the point that it breaks up the fun or the action. More of an annoyance.

Honestly what I find most jarring is how tightly they tried to tie this game into Origins with cameos of minor players, and things you did in the first game. In ME2 I love those tie-ins because i'm playing the same Shepard. I can stroll into a room and laugh at some guy who i punched in the face.. and even do it again for kicks! In DA2 i'm playing Hawke.. and all this seems pretty insignificant in the story at hand. I understand a need to tie the games together, but DA2 has such a different feel than origins did.

The fact I'm contending with all these folks who hold a significance to me in a meta concept, it feels like the developers are saying "HEY LOOK KIDS, IT'S X!" I think it detracts from what is otherwise a solid experience. I mean seriously. Did every person I ever know end up in Kirkwall? Maybe I should try to arrange a worst case scenario so i won't have to put up with it... ~D

[rajpoot]

Right I still don't have my copy.....Going to reach me tomorrow, or maybe day after on the 13th I think.
Already I've beginning to feel disappointed read a ton of negative user reviews on Gamespot. Anyway, what I was really wondering whether anyone has downloaded the High Resolution Texture pack (http://social.bioware.com/page/da2-patches) and is it really worth it? Because if it is then I'll start now and if I'm lucky it'll finish downloading in two days.
So, opinions?

[Krusader]

Forum bans locks you out from games (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/03/11/ea-forum-bans-can-lock-you-out-of-games/)

Don't go saying Dragon Age 2 is bad or EA sold souls to devil or you might not be able to play your EA games :laugh:

Definitely going to pick up Dragon Age 2, but as I said in other thread, it will be the Ultimate Edition two years from now. From what I've seen on forums, reviews and Metascore user ratings/reviews it seems the discontent crowd is bigger or maybe even not the minority this time around compared to Mass Effect 2 & DA:O.

[Kekvit Irae]

Right I still don't have my copy.....Going to reach me tomorrow, or maybe day after on the 13th I think.
Already I've beginning to feel disappointed read a ton of negative user reviews on Gamespot. Anyway, what I was really wondering whether anyone has downloaded the High Resolution Texture pack (http://social.bioware.com/page/da2-patches) and is it really worth it? Because if it is then I'll start now and if I'm lucky it'll finish downloading in two days.
So, opinions?

There are some things that are better in DA:O, and some things that are worse. To me, it feels less like Dragon Age and more like a fantasy Mass Effect. Take that for what you will. It's best if you make up your own mind about the the game rather than rely on the internet to influence your decisions.
I have downloaded and installed the high resolution pack and installed it before playing, so I really don't know what kind of a difference it really makes.


Forum bans locks you out from games (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/03/11/ea-forum-bans-can-lock-you-out-of-games/)

Don't go saying Dragon Age 2 is bad or EA sold souls to devil or you might not be able to play your EA games :laugh:

I feel absolutely no pity for him. While preventing him from playing a 60 dollar game is a little overkill, he accepted the EULA just like everyone else. It's not EA's fault he just scrolled down and clicked "I Agree". Ignorance is no excuse.

[Monk]

I have downloaded and installed the high resolution pack and installed it before playing, so I really don't know what kind of a difference it really makes.

A very noticeable difference.

edit: Character models, armor, weapons ect are unchanged. Terrain, buildings and generally everything else gets a much needed jump in texture quality.

[Techno Viking]

https://img189.imageshack.us/img189/5853/1299754913574.jpg

[Greyblades]

edit: Character models, armor, weapons ect are unchanged. Terrain, buildings and generally everything else gets a much needed jump in texture quality.

Oh you have got to be kidding, the clothes & armour textures are what is putting me off the most!

[seireikhaan]

Well, about 33 hours logged on the current character, and just recently became "champion". Now I'm stuck on another crazy hard fight....

Stumbled into a High Dragon fight back at the mine after. Holy dicks, that fight's just not fair. Thought I was doing decently well after fighting off the first 'ling rush and continuing to whittle down the high dragon's health. But that second 'ling rush headed by an adult dragon, all while the high dragon was nuking from... on high. Right, I might try it later. :oops:

[Monk]

23 hours and DA2 is in the bag, signed and sealed, completed. I had an amazing time but I can't help but feel this represents one step forward and two steps back for the DA team. On one hand they introduce some really nice, refined combat that's a load of fun to take part in. On the other, it can get incredibly tiresome having to fine tune positioning of every single party member so they dont get rushed by the enemy reinforcement surges. Bioware claimed to have eliminated "difficulty spikes", but they're still there in full force.

In Origins i always felt these spikes came from the grapple moves random mobs would hit you with. You're doing fine, then suddenly a mob pins Alistair to the ground and rips his throat out. Hurray, now you have no tank! It was a very cheap way to ensure fights were hard and I never really learned a good counter (I know stun movies free companions, but they'd almost always fail in a clutch for me ~:( ). In DA2 it feels more like the fights are hard because they've been balanced poorly.. or just not at all. I like challange as much as the next guy, but see Khaan's spoiler for an example of one that just isnt fun nor fair.

Add to it that Dragon Age 2 feels like it abandoned genuinely good ideas in order to get its way. Not everything in Origins was perfect, but there were things that it did do right, like characterization. I can't help but feel your companions this time around are a little.. flat. Not being able to hang out with them unless I have a quest to go to talk to them doesn't help either. I'm not asking to play 20 questions (a la origins), but at LEAST let me stop by and talk about what they're up to when I feel like it.

There's also a number of odd glitches and immersion breaking bugs in relation to a certain quests near the ending. Things like hair colors of companions suddenly turning white, quest givers not wanting to talk to you despite sending me a letter to talk with them, and encounters not loading correctly all give off a certain impression. I've been hearing rumblings that EA forced Bioware to rush out the gate with this game, and once i hit the 16 hour mark I really started to see where those rumors were born. It's not that it lacks content, it's that it lacks polish, which is a true surprise coming from Bioware.

Looking back on the experience as a whole I am reflecting positively on it, despite my disappointment in the areas above. It's a really good game that offers a lot of fun, more than that it's a worthy entry into the Dragon Age universe. However, I dont feel it's a worthy sequel to Origins simply due to too many stumbles taken in the mechanics department. There is an interesting story to be seen here, but it's held back by a lot. I hope the Dragon Age team gets their act together in the future or else they'll be getting shown up by the very people they were trying to emulate (their coworkers over on the Mass Effect team).

Plot related stuff.

For you all playing morally upright characters i'll warn you now to have one of your mages take up healing as a secondary.

For the final act:
Your team picks sides in the Templar/Mage dispute, the only people left alive/left supporting me by this time were full friend, but I got the feeling they may have turned on me if they were Rival. I'm unsure, but you don't want to get caught on the other side of the isle from your tank/healer. There are some ROUGH fights ahead of you. Also.. Terrorism. Seriously. :book:

[Kekvit Irae]

23 hours and DA2 is in the bag, signed and sealed, completed. I had an amazing time but I can't help but feel this represents one step forward and two steps back for the DA team. On one hand they introduce some really nice, refined combat that's a load of fun to take part in. On the other, it can get incredibly tiresome having to fine tune positioning of every single party member so they dont get rushed by the enemy reinforcement surges. Bioware claimed to have eliminated "difficulty spikes", but they're still there in full force.

23 hours? Steam clocks me in at 26 hours, and I've just now completed the Arishok's quest to track down the thief of the poison plans. Of course, I'm OCD when it comes to side and secondary quests. Leave no stone unturned.


In Origins i always felt these spikes came from the grapple moves random mobs would hit you with. You're doing fine, then suddenly a mob pins Alistair to the ground and rips his throat out. Hurray, now you have no tank! It was a very cheap way to ensure fights were hard and I never really learned a good counter (I know stun movies free companions, but they'd almost always fail in a clutch for me ~:( ). In DA2 it feels more like the fights are hard because they've been balanced poorly.. or just not at all. I like challange as much as the next guy, but see Khaan's spoiler for an example of one that just isnt fun nor fair.

Or how about one fight early on during a secondary quest which pits you against a revenant, two rage demons, a desire demon, an arcane horror, and a crapload of shades and abominations? All in the same room. I wiped so many times, mostly because, at that point in the game, I only had access ONE healer. Stupid Merrill and her "unique" specialization. I'm stuck with Anders for most of the game, unfortunately. At least Morrigan had the ability to choose Creation spells in Origins.


Add to it that Dragon Age 2 feels like it abandoned genuinely good ideas in order to get its way. Not everything in Origins was perfect, but there were things that it did do right, like characterization. I can't help but feel your companions this time around are a little.. flat. Not being able to hang out with them unless I have a quest to go to talk to them doesn't help either. I'm not asking to play 20 questions (a la origins), but at LEAST let me stop by and talk about what they're up to when I feel like it.

Interparty banter is often hilarious, but I certainly miss the ability to personally talk to my party members at any point in the game. Being able to talk to a companion only at their home base and only if there's a companion quest is like a slap in the face for me. I feel like this game was made for min-maxers, not roleplayers.


There's also a number of odd glitches and immersion breaking bugs in relation to a certain quests near the ending. Things like hair colors of companions suddenly turning white, quest givers not wanting to talk to you despite sending me a letter to talk with them, and encounters not loading correctly all give off a certain impression. I've been hearing rumblings that EA forced Bioware to rush out the gate with this game, and once i hit the 16 hour mark I really started to see where those rumors were born. It's not that it lacks content, it's that it lacks polish, which is a true surprise coming from Bioware.

The only "bug" I've encountered so far was bad clipping on armor models (including my companions' armor). Hands should not be able to clip through your thigh when talking, nor should your butt clip through your chest armor.

[Monk]

23 hours? Steam clocks me in at 26 hours, and I've just now completed the Arishok's quest to track down the thief of the poison plans. Of course, I'm OCD when it comes to side and secondary quests. Leave no stone unturned.

What can I say? I move fast ~D

I did however miss a number of things simply because they aren't glarringly obvious. I missed out on recruiting Fenris on my first go because I only did the bare minimum of side-quests in the first act. So i suppose you could say 20 hours is around the very bare minimum to expect on any given play through when you're ignoring half the content :shrug:


Or how about one fight early on during a secondary quest which pits you against a revenant, two rage demons, a desire demon, an arcane horror, and a crapload of shades and abominations? All in the same room. I wiped so many times, mostly because, at that point in the game, I only had access ONE healer. Stupid Merrill and her "unique" specialization. I'm stuck with Anders for most of the game, unfortunately. At least Morrigan had the ability to choose Creation spells in Origins.

Don't even get me started on that fight. I will freely admit i've bumped the difficulty down a notch here and there when i spent a full hour wiping on the same encounter just to get by. These high end fights are just not fun. Well, some are. But most like the ones you and Khaan describe are not.


The only "bug" I've encountered so far was bad clipping on armor models (including my companions' armor). Hands should not be able to clip through your thigh when talking, nor should your butt clip through your chest armor.

It's toward the final act, but I saw a number of quests bugging and encounters simply not loading properly. Might be one-time glitches (wrong place, wrong time) but it really set me off. ~:(

Do agree on Interparty banter though. It's one of the highlights of the game.

[rajpoot]

Got the game today. Been playing like crazy. Actually forcing myself to play like crazy because this is nothing like DAO. I just want to know what can happens at the end....otherwise the combat seems different (and unlikeable) and there are too few companion conversations (I literally jump with joy when I see the quest/marker to go and talk with a companion).
The really messed this game catering for those who weren't into Origins.

[Kekvit Irae]

After contemplating a bit, I know of another bug. A huge one, at that.
If you use Anders' Regroup spell or a restoration potion to revive dead team members in combat, sometimes they will act like they aren't even in combat because the game doesn't recognize them as being in combat. Sure, they'll attack, but they act lethargic. When controlling said character, autoattack is non-existent. For affected characters, they will be regenerating health and stamina/mana like crazy. This is definitely game-breaking as it makes characters like Varric with Bianca abilities or an Assassin Hawke completely unstoppable if controlled. I've had this happen several times (mostly because Anders is the only damn mage in the game with healing spells, thus forcing me to use him in every fight).

[TinCow]

Yes, I've encountered that same bug several times and it's very annoying. That and the bug where I can't click on a target (be it a door or an enemy) are very common and I'm amazed they let that slip through testing.

[TinCow]

I will give Bioware a big thumbs up on at least one plot point: Varric's companion question. Specifically when you first go to a particular house (further details omitted due to spoilers). That was very inventive, and I fell in love with it instantly. In fact, combined with the similar style of the 'tutorial' section at the beginning, I'm becoming rather fond of the 'narration' aspect of the story.

[Riedquat]

Well, about 33 hours logged on the current character, and just recently became "champion". Now I'm stuck on another crazy hard fight....

Stumbled into a High Dragon fight back at the mine after. Holy dicks, that fight's just not fair. Thought I was doing decently well after fighting off the first 'ling rush and continuing to whittle down the high dragon's health. But that second 'ling rush headed by an adult dragon, all while the high dragon was nuking from... on high. Right, I might try it later. :oops:

Finished the game in four sittings, it took around 38 hours, skipped a lot of side quests and companions quests, I have a million questions and a terrible headache ;)

About crazy hard fights...
The dragon high fight (whoever implemented this fight in game was for sure high)... I had to change party members twice to get it done, I hadn't a real problem with the dragon-lings waves or the adult dragon[s] (weren't they 2 or 3?) but with the big :daisy: spitting fireballs at me for more than 15 minutes after I killed the second wave and refusing to land in the battlefield, while I spent the time running all along the field trying to evade them and waiting till I could use another restoration potion :furious3:; I'm not sure if I fell in a glitch or it's scripted this way but the only thing that worked to get the dragon out of that untouchable position was staying in one place and getting hit a couple of times by the fire spit.

Playing as rogue it wasn't a real hard fight, difficult for sure, annoying like no one else but not really hard for the fight per se. What was really a hard fight was dueling with the Arishok... experience I dont want to repeat anytime soon, spent a quarter of the time running from him, a quarter being impaled by his sword and the other quarter crying like a little girl while awaiting my health and stamina to rise a bit, I won the fight with 1 point of health left and thanks to the columns in the hall where the fight takes place, I don't know you but I really feel I truly deserved the champion tittle

[seireikhaan]

Well, clocked in around 45 hours, and its done. Plan is to give it at least one more playthrough, with a non-mage character. Overall thoughts and feelings:

The final boss(at least for me, I imagine different choices will alter the order or possibly who you even fight at all, idk, :shrug:) was quite fun and enjoyable. Much more well designed than most of the boss fights.

Bioware was on the ball for companions, of what we got to see of them. The interaction wasn't to the degree I wanted, but even Isabella was an enjoyable party member, which I seriously doubted when I started. The choices made in the later game mostly resulted in reactions that I figured would happen, which was a relief. No general nonsensical decisions by your party members, at least in my experience. I particularly enjoyed Varrick, who pretty much is the only reason the 'story-telling' format worked. Companion quests(well, those I did, I lost Isabella somewhat early) were all pretty fun. Once again, Varrick shone on his quests.

Combat, structurally, is fantastic, imo. Kiting generally works like it feels it should. The problem is too often, the fights weren't well balanced, so you were forced to kite the whole battle, which is distinctly un-fun. Mages were given the proper neutering they needed, but I'm not sure they found the balance quite right on rogues. Assassins in particular are immensely frustrating. One assassin at a time on the battlefield makes things interesting and challenging. Two just means you're likely to start the battle one party member down, which I don't consider particularly fair.

Random notes, bugs, irritants, etc...:

Level design. Seriously, Bioware? C'mon. This is the sequel to the massive, varied game I loved? Did they can the whole level design staff sans one person? I feel like I beat a 4 hour game a whole bunch of times. This was easily my biggest disclaimer on this game. Give some darn variety! I don't need or want to go through this same fragging underground or cavern or house for the 100th time. Enough to make me say this was a bad game? Honestly, almost. Not quite, but really close.

Only major bug I noticed was the clicking one TinCow noted. I don't consider it too game breaking(easy fix, pause button prevents shenanigans), but it did get annoying.

Pride Demon fights were quite interesting. The AOE crushing prison was quite nicely balanced, and an interesting touch. There was one fight which was, sadly, imbalanced once again by waves of rage demons, but oh well.

Champion's armor looks so close to being good, but ends up silly. What's with the protruding boilerplate sticking out of the chest piece? :inquisitive:

Also, on the end:


For you all playing morally upright characters i'll warn you now to have one of your mages take up healing as a secondary.

For the final act:
Your team picks sides in the Templar/Mage dispute, the only people left alive/left supporting me by this time were full friend, but I got the feeling they may have turned on me if they were Rival. I'm unsure, but you don't want to get caught on the other side of the isle from your tank/healer. There are some ROUGH fights ahead of you. Also.. Terrorism. Seriously. :book: Very impressive terrorism, I might add.

Also, yeah, definitely try to get your party members some balance, and friends are a good thing. I ended up with a party consisting of myself(mage), Varrick, Merril, Anders, and Aveline. In other words, I was one friend short of not having a tank, and I'm pretty sure it was a close cutoff on her bailing too. ~:eek:

Also, Leliana? Really? Grah.... Curious what they make of it if you off her in Origins at Andraste's tomb.

To sum, there's lots of good, and lots of bad. Which is more bad than Origins, imo. Despite being hosed on how much you can converse with your party members, they still manage to shine. Despite poorly balanced fights occasionally rearing their ugly head, combat's generally a lot of fun. The story is good, and though the format isn't to my liking, it generally keeps itself in the background. If it wasn't for level design, I'd honestly say it was a pretty darn good game. But that element just knocks it down a fair number of pegs for me. Overall, I'd say about 7.5 or 8 out of 10. Bearing in mind, I consider Origins a 9.5. :/

[Scienter]

I agree with Yaseikhaan's opinion of the reused environments. In a lot of the dungeons I think, "I feel like I've been here before...wait, I have been here before!" The designers took a shortcut there. I'm not finished with the game yet, but I do wish there was more dialogue w/ the NPCs, and I really miss the "camp" from DA:O. Having to go to an NPC's home to talk with them is a bit of a pain.

I wish I could just move everyone to the Hawke estate when I got it

That said, I'm enjoying the game so far.

[Monk]

45 hours


38 hours

Jeeze what kept you guys? :laugh4:


To sum, there's lots of good, and lots of bad. Which is more bad than Origins, imo. Despite being hosed on how much you can converse with your party members, they still manage to shine. Despite poorly balanced fights occasionally rearing their ugly head, combat's generally a lot of fun. The story is good, and though the format isn't to my liking, it generally keeps itself in the background. If it wasn't for level design, I'd honestly say it was a pretty darn good game. But that element just knocks it down a fair number of pegs for me. Overall, I'd say about 7.5 or 8 out of 10. Bearing in mind, I consider Origins a 9.5. :/

That's pretty much how I feel with a few subtle changes here and there. Replace level design with incredibly annoying party interaction and yup, that's me. Party banter goes a long way to saving the experience but it can't quite make up for it in my opinion. Still thoroughly enjoy the game but I can't help but feel Bioware made some real stumbles here and there. Expected much better from this showing. Ah well. Even if it's not great, it's still good in my books.

I'm playing the game through a second time now as a pure Entropy mage, which is crowd control and debuffs (where before I was full elemental, AOE and control). The game is... surprisingly a lot easier. Taking Creation as a secondary tree so i am full on support for my team as well as some nasty status afflictions. It still doesn't help with some fights though. Mainly due to poor balance choices in the encounters. I'm of the opinion that the combat is a great improvement over the first, but just like the first, Bioware didn't bother to tune certain aspects of it to avoid random spikes in difficulty. A shame really, because it seems like combat was the main focus this time around.


The final boss(at least for me, I imagine different choices will alter the order or possibly who you even fight at all, idk, ) was quite fun and enjoyable. Much more well designed than most of the boss fights.

Final Boss fight spoilers:

I supported the Magi and had to fight Orsino first, who turned to Blood Magic to save himself at the end. It was your standard tank+spank until phase 2 where he'd pick a party member and go after them, and then it was a game of keep away. Phase 3, his head jumps off his body and summons tons of additional mobs to fight while running wild on your party. COntroling phase 3 is very very hard. If you kill his head he rejoins together for another go and its just a game of keep away again. Fun, but LONG. Had to take 20 min to kill him.

Then I had to fight Meridith who was possessed by the artifact. A really easy fight mainly because I had built my team for mass AoE. When she summons additional just spam your aoe and kite around until Cone of Cold's up. Then blast 'em. She was the final boss for me, but I preferred the Orsino fight to be honest. It had a much bigger "Ah crap" feel to it.

The reason I suggested people have a back-up mage is.. well, I had to kill Anders for what he did. That was seriously a non-bro thing to do. Not cool at all, Anders. ~:(

[Kekvit Irae]

Well, I finally won the game. The lack of an epilogue added to my list of disappointments in the game.

[seireikhaan]

Jeeze what kept you guys? :laugh4:
Lots of side questing? I'm not sure how you beat the game so fast.
If you didn't, I'd advise finding Hybris- he's a pretty fun fight if you notch the difficulty down to normal. Plus he gives you one of the sicker one-handed swords in the game. He wasn't part of any major quest, so its not hard to miss him.


I'm playing the game through a second time now as a pure Entropy mage, which is crowd control and debuffs (where before I was full elemental, AOE and control). The game is... surprisingly a lot easier. Taking Creation as a secondary tree so i am full on support for my team as well as some nasty status afflictions. It still doesn't help with some fights though. Mainly due to poor balance choices in the encounters. I'm of the opinion that the combat is a great improvement over the first, but just like the first, Bioware didn't bother to tune certain aspects of it to avoid random spikes in difficulty. A shame really, because it seems like combat was the main focus this time around.Hmm. I pretty much skipped out on entropy. My only real experience with it(I think) was the occasional Arcane Horror ending my party with(I think) a death cloud. I'd gone full blood mage, a decent chunk of Force, and the full lightning/rock tree, with my only other dabbling being snagging upgraded heal. Blood magic gets pretty strong later game, if only for all the bonuses you can get for your health regeneration and health to mana ratio for blood casting. Final fight, I pretty much kept casting forever and with impunity as long as Aveline kept aggro. As long as I tempered my nuking, I could cast for just about forever.



I supported the Magi and had to fight Orsino first, who turned to Blood Magic to save himself at the end. It was your standard tank+spank until phase 2 where he'd pick a party member and go after them, and then it was a game of keep away. Phase 3, his head jumps off his body and summons tons of additional mobs to fight while running wild on your party. COntroling phase 3 is very very hard. If you kill his head he rejoins together for another go and its just a game of keep away again. Fun, but LONG. Had to take 20 min to kill him.

Then I had to fight Meridith who was possessed by the artifact. A really easy fight mainly because I had built my team for mass AoE. When she summons additional just spam your aoe and kite around until Cone of Cold's up. Then blast 'em. She was the final boss for me, but I preferred the Orsino fight to be honest. It had a much bigger "Ah crap" feel to it.

The reason I suggested people have a back-up mage is.. well, I had to kill Anders for what he did. That was seriously a non-bro thing to do. Not cool at all, Anders. ~:(I had a pretty much identical route. The only difference was keeping Anders with me. Not sure if that was what ultimately scared Fenris off or not. I figured at that point, what's done is done. War's a gonna happen regardless of him being alive, so let's keep every healthy mage we can. Plus, I was just that impressed. I mean, did you see that explosion?:juggle2:

I didn't find the fights unreasonably difficult. Perhaps because I got that +5/6/7 to all stats rune into all of my companion's and mine's armor. :sweatdrop:That, and those statues in particular took ages to get moving, with the exception of the last two that dropped down and started firebreathing everything in sight. Orsino was an interesting fight, but probably one stage longer than necessary. Not super difficult assuming you've got a proper party arrangement, just long. Heck, the three rage demons waiting for you(:inquisitive:) outside of where you fight Orsino was a harder fight than either boss, if for no other reason than the usual mass-assassin spamming issues. Probably doing a non-mage playthrough just to explore the other possibilities.

[Kekvit Irae]

I had a pretty much identical route. The only difference was keeping Anders with me. Not sure if that was what ultimately scared Fenris off or not.

Err... no. Sebastian certainly, but not Fenris. Fenris leaves no matter what if you side with the mages. If you mention to him about freeing slaves when confronted outside the Circle, and you have a good enough Friendship/Rivalry, he'll switch sides and join you again.

And regarding the First Enchanter...
The whole thing felt like a rehash of the Golems of Amgarrak final boss, without the cool Fade shifting. Not as tough either.

[Greyblades]

Realy? I just asked him flat out of he could fight with me again. Seemed to work.

[rajpoot]

Right just finished the game. This is probably the quickest ever I've finished a full game....and certainly the longest I've sat on my PC in a go.
Anyway.....I don't know what to think. They've made a lot of changes and in my eyes its lost a lot of charm that the previous game had. I mean I loved talking to companions, and they had a ton of dialogue. So even in very long and tedious dungeons like the Deep Roads, I kept going because I knew I'll be rewarded with loads of interesting dialogue.
Now however the chats are far and few in between and I've been literally jumping with joy when I see a quest about going and talking to a companion. Specially considering that most other quests need one to negotiate through the same old dungeons/areas with a very uncooperative camera.
While the story is rather haphazard, it has its moments of awesome.
I really liked the Act 2 quests about running back and forth between the Qunari and the Viscount trying to make peace. And the one with that Qunari mage.....Katojen or whatever his name was.....IMO the Qunari quests are amongst the best in this game.
Other moments worth mentioning are the climax to the Deep Roads quest where the sibling falls. The quest in which one finds Zevran (Isabela has some great dialogue with him) and the quest where Hawke's mother dies. I mean it might be a cheap shot trying to add drama by killing off the mother of an already lonely hero, but it works quite well nonetheless.
There are ofcourse bugs, with the import system. Found a few reference in the game about decisions I never took. And the combat system...well...I've come to realise I don't buy these games for the combat at all....I find it OK. Can live with it.
The ending was....unsatisfactory. Cliffhanger ending is one thing, and leaving a story half finished is another.
About Flemeth,
When she pops out of that amulet, did it remind anyone else of Voldemort?
All in all I liked the last game better. Progress in design and stuff is important but trying to fix that which is not broken is not a good idea.

[Mailman653]

Reddit Poster Tracks Perfect Metacritic Dragon Age II Review Score to BioWare Employee
(http://www.gamespy.com/articles/115/1155723p1.html)

[Monk]

Reddit Poster Tracks Perfect Metacritic Dragon Age II Review Score to BioWare Employee
(http://www.gamespy.com/articles/115/1155723p1.html)

As if Metacritic's user reviews are a hotbed of intellectual discussion and unbiased opinion without his contribution. Have you strode through the muck of those public sections before? My god. As a whole i'd advocate not approaching toward metacritic with a ten ft. pole. There's far too much generalized, unfocused fanboy hate combined with :daisy: PR that it makes it impossible to get a read on the product. ~:(

As important as game reviewers love to make themselves out to be these days I really don't see much substitute for simply trying it yourself and making up your own mind.

[Scienter]

As if Metacritic's user reviews are a hotbed of intellectual discussion and unbiased opinion without his contribution. Have you strode through the muck of those public sections before? My god.

I made the mistake of looking at the comments on Metacritic. I think my brain may have melted a little. I'm enjoying DA2 despite its flaws. I think in the future I'll just ignore Metacritic since it seems like a place where people go to rage instead of posting something useful.

[rajpoot]

I don't how many of you've seen this, but a certain dwarf says something really unexpected if clicked on enough times. Quite creepy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwa-mKETJW0

[Techno Viking]

http://patchtimer.org/uploader/files2/calgone-1300150043-1300140568537.png

tl;dr: Bioware caught posting metacritic user reviews..

[Kekvit Irae]

I don't how many of you've seen this, but a certain dwarf says something really unexpected if clicked on enough times. Quite creepy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwa-mKETJW0


Not enchantment!

And regarding amusing things, there's one guy I totally, completely agree with about the game:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/577791198406804046/1D42FA582A8D834958EAE0DF514C36AE44AACA3F/
(ignore the quickbar, that was before I discovered the joy of Assassinate)

[Greyblades]

Uh is that some sort of jab at old asciii games?

[Monk]

Uh is that some sort of jab at old asciii games?

That NPC is there to break the fourth wall. He also talks about how sometimes he feels as if he's trapped in a grand story, and nothing he does means anything.

[Kekvit Irae]

Uh is that some sort of jab at old asciii games?

He's a joke on an old running debate over complexity in games over time. Mass Effect 2 is more "streamlined" than Mass Effect. Dragon Age 2 is more "streamlined" than Dragon Age: Origins. Etc, etc.
If anything, he's a jab at the fans.

[rajpoot]

Playing again as a mage. I have a question about Act 1. No spoilers, but still putting it in tags just incase.
I can't seem to go to the Gallows...? Is it a glitch or is it actually scripted this way? How am I supposed to get the quests there if I can't go?

[Kekvit Irae]

Playing again as a mage. I have a question about Act 1. No spoilers, but still putting it in tags just incase.
I can't seem to go to the Gallows...? Is it a glitch or is it actually scripted this way? How am I supposed to get the quests there if I can't go?

The Gallows opens up if you pick up a side/secondary/main quest that goes there. Just walk around and pick up quests, and eventually it'll open up.

[rajpoot]

The Gallows opens up if you pick up a side/secondary/main quest that goes there. Just walk around and pick up quests, and eventually it'll open up.

Right it's open now, but I still can't get the Herbalist quest.

[Kekvit Irae]

Right it's open now, but I still can't get the Herbalist quest.

I believe it happens after a few main quests are taken care of. Progress with the plot in act 1 and check back with him.

[frogbeastegg]

I like the game on the whole so far, although it's quite mixed and will have to pull something special if it is to end up viewed as great instead of good.

They shouldn't have called it Dragon Age 2. If they had called it Dragon Age: Kirkwall (or whatever) it wouldn't have created false expectations. As a side story in the same world it would be a nice game. As a semi-direct continuation it doesn't feel like it fits; gameplay is too different, plot is mainly unrelated, and aside from a few links there's nothing strong to tie it back to DA:O.

My other main thought on the game is that it's Bioware's KOTORII, i.e. a game with lots of great ideas which didn't get the time and budget it needed in order to realise them. Imagine if Kirkwall was designed to be more like Amn, or even one of the cities in the Assassin's Creed games. Large, interesting to explore, filled with people and little places, and alive. Instead it's closer to Mass Effect's Citadel. Imagine if you had enough people in your party to get some choice as to who to take instead of "I need X so I have to use Y." Imagine if outside the city consisted of more than a few tiny maps. Imagine if the conversation options were fleshed out sufficiently that instead of wondering why Varric has no beard you could ask him, since it's a great glaring question the first time you meet him!

Combat is ... uh ... tolerable. I'm a rogue. I hit the attack button a lot, people die. My party rambles around doing stuff I can't track but which probably mostly ties in to the tactics I set. Then a second wave appears surrounding us so that any attempt at positioning is useless. I hit the attack button a lot more and my party does whatever it is they do. I win. Yay?

Skill development seems mainly designed to force me to waste points in skills I don't want so that I can't afford many of the ones I do want, or alternately spend half the game with my points unused.

I like the story framing. The idea that the game is being related after the event is novel, and it's a change from the tired Bioware formula.

The times people are giving out are a little shocking to me. I'm near the end of chapter 1, have done all of the sidequests but not many of the main quests, and I'm at around 17 hours. I haven't been dawdling either. I'm around level 9, which is somewhat worrying considering the level cap is meant to be 20.

This is the first Bioware RPG I can remember where I really don't like every single sidekick you can recruit. Well, except maybe Varric. He's sort of genericly tolerable; yet another loveable rogue. Oh - there's Dog. I like Dog. Probably because he can't talk. We've got (minor spoilers)

Sister "Wa wa, repressed mages and life on the run!" or brother "Boo, evil mages!" depending on your own class.

Emo Elf who escaped from Final Fantasy and who constantly unloads about his tragic life right from conversation 1. I swear Squall from FFVIII was peppier than this guy.

Whinging repressed mage who unloads tragic life story on you from conversation 1. There's nothing left of the funny old Anders. Who knew losing his pet cat could do this to a guy? I used to like Anders. I sort of liked Justice as well. Two characters ruined for the price of one, gah! If it weren't for the healing spells I'd leave him behind too.

Blood mage elf who alternates between incredibly-stupid-but-intended-to-be-cute-but-really-is-just-stupid and some kind of demonic pokemon trainer while giving the impression that she's far too dumb to understand what she is doing.

Aveline the walking cold towel, there to remind you of GRIM and DUTY and BOREDOM every time you breathe. Her husband probably lied about the darkspawn taint in order to get away from her nagging. And I'm playing as a good character too; I hate to think of how much she nags evil characters.

Boob pirate the wonder girl ... er, except that description makes her sound more interesting than she is. Still, at least she doesn't whine. Much. Yet. Not sure how many times I can listen to variations on the same joke before I move her off the indifferent list and file her under hate with the rest.

Repressed church boy who constantly unloads about evil mages, also revenge and "Boo! My poor family!" The only thing he has said which is not angst related is "Thank you" but that was for killing the mercs who slaughtered his family so it doesn't count.
Is there anywhere in Kirkwall which sells prozac? I could mix it in with their health potions and they would never know ...

Maybe they improve further into the game. If so I doubt it will matter since it will take some impressive work to redeem them. Even the party banter, usually a highlight for me, makes me roll my eyes. There's the odd funny conversation, or the odd insightful one, but mostly it is character X indulging their pet unload topic on everyone else, with other characters unloading back. There have been a few funny or character exploration conversations and they're as good as ever; the game desperately needs more.

[rajpoot]

The spoiler-ed character description made me laugh more than most jokes in the game. The reason I find it hard to care about the companions is because they hardly seem have lived any life before they met Hawke. In the previous game, everyone seemed to be keen on talking about their past experiences in great detail. I miss that here.

[Greyblades]

I feel realy out of the loop here; I dont think in my last playthrough I realy noticed all the angsting and when I did I didnt mind much, maybe its because I didnt play all that many JRPG's and arent sick and tired of them, but I dont realy feel the revulsion you guy are getting :shrug:.

Ok I've got my own gripe: why the heck does this game feel so rail-roaded for failure?
For example:
During one of the main quests you have to escort a rogue qunari mage out of the city to some beach on behalf of a chantry sister, he's also mute, I can't refuse, its a main quest. Ok the sister isnt exactly miss nice and is getting on my nerves; screw her I'm going to blow the whole thing to the arishok... Ok he doest care, just says "I'm worthy".:inquisitive:

With no other option I agree and take the walking magic-brick-out-house to the beach, sounds like the start of a picnic. After beating up the usual thugs on the way (kinda missing the option to intimidate by pointing out that I beat a fricking dragon in an earlier quest, mage didnt help much by the way) I get to the beach and there's a bunch of qunari who ask for him back, I say get lost he's mine and a fight ensues. After I've finished up and take a rod from the qunari, the mage starts talking, but says he has to die. I tell him no but the mage still sets himself on fire and dies :brood:, apparantly none of my mages can summon a pail of water.

Annoyed I reload to an earlier save and hand him over to the qunari hoping for a better outcome, nope, the qunari executes the mage and then attacks me in fear that I was possessed by a daemon the mage might have summoned. In retrospect maybe having anders/daemon of vengeance along might not have helped my case.

In the end, no matter what I do the qunari group attacks me, the mage burns to death, the arishok ignores me and I can't even kill the sister that started all this just threaten her.:furious3: Even that just gets a dismissive reaction out of her.:brood:
And that's one of the least disasterous quests.

[Kekvit Irae]

For example:
During one of the main quests you have to escort a rogue qunari mage out of the city to some beach on behalf of a chantry sister, he's also mute, I can't refuse, its a main quest. Ok the sister isnt exactly miss nice and is getting on my nerves; screw her I'm going to blow the whole thing to the arishok... Ok he doest care, just says "I'm worthy".:inquisitive:

With no other option I agree and take the walking magic-brick-out-house to the beach, sounds like the start of a picnic. After beating up the usual thugs on the way (kinda missing the option to intimidate by pointing out that I beat a fricking dragon in an earlier quest, mage didnt help much by the way) I get to the beach and there's a bunch of qunari who ask for him back, I say get lost he's mine and a fight ensues. After I've finished up and take a rod from the qunari, the mage starts talking, but says he has to die. I tell him no but the mage still sets himself on fire and dies :brood:, apparantly none of my mages can summon a pail of water.

Annoyed I reload to an earlier save and hand him over to the qunari hoping for a better outcome, nope, the qunari executes the mage and then attacks me in fear that I was possessed by a daemon the mage might have summoned. In retrospect maybe having anders/daemon of vengeance along might not have helped my case.

In the end, no matter what I do the qunari group attacks me, the mage burns to death, the arishok ignores me and I can't even kill the sister that started all this just threaten her.:furious3: Even that just gets a dismissive reaction out of her.:brood:
And that's one of the least disasterous quests.

You'll see that sister again real soon...

[rajpoot]

Song dedicated to DA2.....It's by the same people who did the Commander Shepard song.

Link (http://miracleofsound.bandcamp.com/track/through-the-age-of-the-dragon), to listen, or to buy.

[Greyblades]

You'll see that sister again real soon...
I know I've allready finished the game. I realy hated the final meeting, I actually had become somewhat fond of the viscounts kid, Him being one of the few characters who seemed the least bit idealistic in the game, and after yet again not being able to prevent his death It was realy frustrating that a qunari shot the sister before I could.:furious3: Freaking kill stealer!

[Mailman653]

Buy Dragon Age II, get a free digital copy of Mass Effect 2 for the PC. (http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/dragon-age-2/1159867p1.html)

[Scienter]

Just an FYI to people who are still playing: Isabela's friendship perk causes a game breaking bug. If you gain her friendship perk, you'll lose 5% of your attack speed every time you save a game w/o her in your party. The save game is broken, and it will assume that she is in your party when she is not. You probably won't notice the decrease in attack speed until your attack animation slows down. I had this issue w/ my rogue, and fixed it by downloading the gffeditor (http://social.bioware.com/project/1936/#files), running daosavegame.exe, and changing my attack speed animation back to 0.0. It's value number 42 if you use the editor I posted. There hasn't been a patch yet, so this is the best way to get around it IMO. It works, but occasionally you need to go back in and re set it unless you keep Isabela in your party. If you get the bug, it eventually makes your character unusable because the attack speed is so low.

Apparently, this also happens with the DLC companion Sebastian, but I don't have him so I can't verify this.

[rajpoot]

Just an FYI to people who are still playing: Isabela's friendship perk causes a game breaking bug. If you gain her friendship perk, you'll lose 5% of your attack speed every time you save a game w/o her in your party. The save game is broken, and it will assume that she is in your party when she is not. You probably won't notice the decrease in attack speed until your attack animation slows down. I had this issue w/ my rogue, and fixed it by downloading the gffeditor (http://social.bioware.com/project/1936/#files), running daosavegame.exe, and changing my attack speed animation back to 0.0. It's value number 42 if you use the editor I posted. There hasn't been a patch yet, so this is the best way to get around it IMO. It works, but occasionally you need to go back in and re set it unless you keep Isabela in your party. If you get the bug, it eventually makes your character unusable because the attack speed is so low.

Apparently, this also happens with the DLC companion Sebastian, but I don't have him so I can't verify this.

^^^ What he said.
It does happen with Sebastian too.
You need to open the savegame and modify it each time they are removed automatically from your party....like say when you go to your homebase. On the other hand you can simply change the base value so that it can neutralize the effect once and for all.
When it first happened with my warrior I thought the slow animations looked kind of cool...till I got kicked in a big fight.
Even if you don't have the bug get the editor. It has tons of stuff you can play around with including inventory, talents and approval of companions.

[Scienter]

^^^ What he said.
It does happen with Sebastian too.
You need to open the savegame and modify it each time they are removed automatically from your party....like say when you go to your homebase. On the other hand you can simply change the base value so that it can neutralize the effect once and for all.
When it first happened with my warrior I thought the slow animations looked kind of cool...till I got kicked in a big fight.
Even if you don't have the bug get the editor. It has tons of stuff you can play around with including inventory, talents and approval of companions.

I edited my save game and zeroed out the attack speed animation every couple of saves. That said, Bioware really ought to patch this. It's a game breaking bug unless you hack your savegame. I don't know why I didn't notice it w/ my warrior the first time I played through. I think I kept Izzy in my party most of the time, and didn't use her as much w/ my rogue. Maybe that's why.

[rajpoot]

I edited my save game and zeroed out the attack speed animation every couple of saves. That said, Bioware really ought to patch this. It's a game breaking bug unless you hack your savegame. I don't know why I didn't notice it w/ my warrior the first time I played through. I think I kept Izzy in my party most of the time, and didn't use her as much w/ my rogue. Maybe that's why.

Actually it depends a lot on co-incidence. Like I said, AFAIK, it only happen when they're removed automatically, so if you like go change the party at some companions base it won't happen. On the other hand if you simply click on your home and they're removed automatically it will happen. By the time I fixed it in my first game I was on -65....lol....for a while I was stumped...I thought it was some talent one of companions had activated or something.
That said I agree it ought to be fixed....I still haven't checked out the latest patch, maybe they've already done it.

[Krusader]

Unless its empty investor talk, Dragon Age might be a year-release franchise according to EA (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/34514/Riccitiellos_EA_Shifts_From_Defense_To_Offense.php)



The first, he said, is pushing EA's stable of popular IP, including FIFA, Madden, Battlefield, Need for Speed, The Sims, Tetris, Dragon Age and other titles. The company will also leverage the popularity of labels such as EA Sports and its casual Pogo brand.

"We fully intend to make these properties into year-round businesses that lead their sectors across a range of platforms," Riccitiello said.


If it holds water, I don't think Dragon Age ever will return to Origins style (or near Origins style rather. DA2 did a few things right).

[rajpoot]

Found something interesting.
Ever since Mike Laidlaw starting doing those interviews before DA2's release, I knew, vaguely that he wasn't hadn't been the lead designer on DAO...I can't remember if I'd read it somewhere or heard it somewhere or seen it in the game credits, but I had a vague idea.
Browsing through the forums I found this -
http://blog.brentknowles.com/2010/08/15/bioware-brent-year-10-fall-2008-summer-2009/
It's a blog entry, by Brent Knowles....the man who was the lead behind DAO....one of the reasons that lead to his leaving Bioware (as one can read between lines in the blog) was because he wasn't happy about where DA2 was going.
This guy is my new hero.

[Krusader]

By spending some time at Bioware forums it seems this Mike Laidlaw fellow is anathema to most people who enjoyed DA:O and BG2. Apparently he was the lead designer on Jade Empire and that was in his idea how a good RPG is supposed to be, with DA2 being the result. I think he was also the one who coined the "Press a button and something awesome happens" marketing campaign before DA2 was released. I actually thought they couldn't make the ads worse for DA2 than DA:O with its Marilyn Manson ads, but was wrong there.

[Greyblades]

Oh I realy hope he's not heading mass effect 3.

[rajpoot]

No big surprise\news but -
DA3 confirmed (http://portal.aecorp.in/2011/05/bioware-hiring-for-dragon-age-iii/)
IMO they should do something about DA2 first though, instead of leaving the game in the ditch it is sitting in now. Some DLC with more cohesive story....some new dungeons and stuff.

And
It shouldn't be so hard, if the sound files in the install folder are anything to go by. Apparently one avid fan found out some dialogue between Hawke, Bann Teagan, and Conner, who's been brought to the Kirkwall circle.
And ofcourse there is the Morrigan's character mesh that was lying hidden amongst the files.

[Mailman653]

Dragon Age II and the Decline of the Old-school RPG (http://pc.ign.com/articles/116/1169580p1.html)

[rajpoot]

This thread seems to have reduced more into bashing DA2 rather than anything else....and within 3 pages...
Anyhow...Mike Laidlaw has returned to the forums after a sabbatical.

This (http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/315/index/7475089/1) thread is probably closest to what we'll be getting as an apology for everything that was wrong in DA2.

On a note of hope though, now that they're past the denial phase, maybe they will start taking older fans more seriously and bring back some good features.

[Krusader]

Doesn't exactly give me hope for a better DA3. While DA2 did some things right, it did others very badly.
I thought Star Wars Galaxies would show game developers what happen if you flat out discard your original fanbase.

Plus, maybe it's just me, but my impression about Mike Laidlaw is that he must have been bullied or beaten up on a regular basis by someone who loved Baldur's Gate games.

[seireikhaan]

While I can hope that a DA3 will show more signs of DA:O than DA2, I'm going to have to be skeptical. DA2 did some fine things, and did some pretty poor ones too. It does give me a teeny glimmer of hope that they at least noticed people upset with how DA 2's plot was essentially unchangeable, the absurd waves of combat, and the profuse level recycling. Really quite annoying, because DA 2 *did* do some thing better than Origins, especially in regards to balancing the class system out(seeing as mages in origins were to balance what a lead pipe is to a knee cap). So there's still promise in the franchise, imo. Just sad that there were some patently obvious design flaws which hinder the experience.

[rajpoot]

Been cruising through ML's responses, and I must say, for a chap who's had to bear quite a lot of flak, he's taking it well now.
He's made some things clear. We won't be going back to DAO's gameplay. That's gone. For good. So say goodbye to Baldur's Gate successors now.
Number two, no silent protagonists...player imagination just doesn't cut it with thirteen year olds playing who need voiced dialogue to visualize a conversation. (What the hell happened to the rich imagination of the human mind? I swear I could hear every word the Warden said when I clicked on the line...)

I really don't want the franchise to go to ruin...the first game made me fall in love, and now I can only hope that they do the future games better.
While I'm not jumping with joy as yet, the lead designer admitting they made some mistakes, is a big step towards what is right.

[Mailman653]

EA Details First Dragon Age II DLC, Legacy (http://ps3.gamespy.com/playstation-3/dragon-age-2/1181164p1.html)