First impressions thread

[edyzmedieval]

For the lucky ones who are preloading (just started on mine, at a friends house), it's time to post your first impressions once you get your hands on the game. No need for reviews, just short impressions on how you found the game.

Preloading...preloading...




EDIT: For those who are still waiting, if you want to read a S2TW-inspired short story to spend your time while Steam downloads, click on my sig. :book:
*shameless advertising over*

[Lemur]

Yup, got my preload conflicting with my kids watching streaming Netflix. Children! Sit in the dark and stare at the walls! Daddy's game needs to download!

-edit-

Preload completed. Children may resume watching Yo Gabba Gabba or whatever mindrot they like.

-edit of the edit-

Things to do while waiting for unlock: Drivers! Make sure all of your drivers are minty fresh before you try to run the game!

[CanCritter]

first impressions....."no"...you cant have it till 15th :O(

[edyzmedieval]

And so the fight begins! Preload almost finished, the waiting time is now over, time to become Shogun!

[Lemur]

Not in the USA, apparently, or at least not just yet.

[UglyJun]

nice shiney box instaling right now :)
ps: steam is one f... up thingy soo u might have to delete all local shogun content and then try install game from cd otherwise it will try and download even while your cd rom sitting in the comp lol

[edyzmedieval]

Lots of people are experiencing problems, being stuck at 74% on the Steam encryption unlock.

[froogle]

What? No updates yet - are all you lucky European residents too busy gaming to post up a simple "It Rocks!" summary! ;)

I jest of course, but here in the US Steam is insisting we have another 10 hours to go before the unlock lands. Arrrggghhh.

[Monk]

Not in the USA, apparently, or at least not just yet.

Steam doesn't unlock games until like 10 am EST. There's still 9 hours before Shogun 2 unlocks on steam, looking at the Store page.

For all those who love to stay up and play the new releases it must be torture! For me? I have a final tomorrow! :laugh4: No shogun for me until much later.

[antisocialmunky]

Amazon for whatever reason is overnighting it to me... They could have sent it out earlier. :\

[Cecil XIX]

UPS says my game arrived in Baltimore about half an hour ago. That's only an hour from where I live... Hopefully class tomorrow will keep me occupied until it arrives. :stare:

[CanCritter]

11 hrs 10 mins to go....someone is gona die between now and then......

[AggonyKing]

i'll be going out tomorrow after a nice night of sleep and buy the game ^_^ no rush

[Kocmoc]

nice shiney box instaling right now :)
ps: steam is one f... up thingy soo u might have to delete all local shogun content and then try install game from cd otherwise it will try and download even while your cd rom sitting in the comp lol

Installing the game with outplay on is FAIL! :D
if you have the demo on your account, you go on the DVD and start it manually. This way it wont download from steam and install from the DVD instead.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Not in the USA, apparently, or at least not just yet.

Mine is being delivered today, but first I must give my employer 8 hours of my precious time. Hopefully you boys will have it all figured out by then.

[Kocmoc]

Last night 40 people was online, today in the morning 10.

The game seems to be stable while playing 1v1 at least. A number i got is, 24 games played and 1 crash. Thats not perfect, but its good so far.

This evening we will see how big the impact really is, just 40 in the first night isnt much. I did expect more.
If the numbers dont go really high, than we will see some heavy pacing since you will play player with higher lvls and more unlocks for sure.
It might get very disappointing even in the start, if we dont get a big amount of player online.

[AggonyDuck]

We will most likely see a lot more as last night most players didn't have it installed yet and I have a feeling most will play a SP campaign to get acquainted with the game before trying MP.

[Kocmoc]

We will most likely see a lot more as last night most players didn't have it installed yet and I have a feeling most will play a SP campaign to get acquainted with the game before trying MP.

Sure, we will see more, but its already an indicator. We could see it with many other games, where the people did camp the shop, went home, installed the game and went online the same night. So, 40 is a pretty low number, especially after the declaration of "MP-focus".

What peaks we will see?

[Lemur]

Managed to play a few turns this morning. Runs smooth on my Core2Duo machine, so apparently two cores are enough to make it happy. Only real gripe so far: hard to see the range of your armies. It's all shaded and strange, and I have a hard time telling when my units will run out of movement in a turn. Maybe I just need to get used to the new graphics or something like that ...

[Furunculus]

gah! my disk hasn't arrived in the work post today.

[Daveybaby]

Disk? Post? How... quaint. :wink:

A few turns in.

So far: quite impressed.
* The game as a 'mood piece' is absolutely fantastic, great art and audio - it really feels like a coherent whole. Much more so than any other of the TW series since the original shogun.
* AI seems competent so far (on hard), both in campaign and battle. Quickly exploits opportunities such as unprotected archers or empty castles. Hasnt done anything noticably stupid yet.
* Pretty responsive. Seems less of a machine killer than ETW was (although this may be partly due to it not letting me use AA).
* Really liking the province upgrade paths, and the general/daimyo skill trees etc.

A few annoyances:
* Enormous load times! Just been playing medieval 2, and in comparison i keep thinking S2 has crashed. In reality it's probably similar to ETW, but even so, it's a pretty long wait.
* Mouse scrolling on the campaign map feels very... clunky and unresponsive. There's a significant delay between your mouse hitting the edge of the screen and it starting to scroll, that wasnt there in any previous TW games. Can't initiate mouse scrolling where there's a UI element at the edge of the screen, i.e. most of the way along the bottom - *very* annoying.
* Cant zoom out nearly far enough (IMO) on the campaign map. Can barely see more than 1 province at a time, not ideal for grand strategic planning.
* Dont like the mist effect that occurs when you zoom out.
* Anti-aliasing disabled? Uh?

[GeneralHankerchief]

After about an hour of gameplay, I quite like it. Easily the most beautiful game I've ever played. My laptop can run it pretty well, as long as things aren't on the highest settings, and so far the campaign seems fine. My only gripe is that the battles go far too fast, and this is even coming from a guy whose introduction to the series was Rome. My archers are lucky if they can get three volleys off before I have to send them scurrying behind the lines.

All in all though, looking forward to my GPA steadily dropping over the rest of the semester as I keep diving into the game. :yes:

[knoddy]

well off to a good start when i went to pickup my game today. the fire alarm was going off at the shopping center so i cudnt get in and pickup my game!!!! the gaming gods were hating me this morning :P got it eventaully tho and really enjoying it :D

Played a little bit in my Date campaign, really liking it so far. on hard difficulty i smashed the rebels and took a province from my nearbye enemies. the battle AI does seem improved. i tried to lure the rebel general into charging my yari spears in spearwall but at teh last minute they veered off and smashed my other unit of yari in the back :S my suprieror swordsmen won the day tho.

i do feel the battle was over quickly but it was quite a mismatch with rebel yari vs katana samurai. the second battle i fought was a seige and again pitted yari vs katana, but the unit of retainer samurai put up quite a fight despite being severly outnumbered.

im enjoying the campaign i like the fact that u have a limited number of buildings per town. this makes u choose wether to have towns be troop builders, or econimic/agent builders. similar to empire but better design.

really pleased so far!

[Doug-Thompson]

My first impression? That it's rather frustrating to go through a quite long installation only to be told that Steam is updating the game I just installed -- and taking it's sweet time doing it.

[ByzantineKnight]

It took me forever to get my copy as well. But here's my initial impressions.

I was very unimpressed with the AI in smaller battles (my first 3 or so were fought with a few units of Yari Ashigaru, an archer, and a cavalry unit on each side. During all three battles I managed to lure their general from behind his lines with my flanking cavalry and as soon as he started charging I beat a hasty retreat behind my lines where I was able to swamp him with spearmen before he could get away. Suicidal generals appear to be back.

A few hours later I was quite impressed with a large battle in a mostly forested area where the AI managed to pull some stealthy attacks to weak points in my line. I managed to drive them off but just barely and my archers were a little worse for the wear.

Multiplayer was fun though. I managed to get a few games in before real life took me away from my bliss. So far everyone seems quite friendly and it looks like this will be quite an enjoyable experience for at least several months to come!

As for the campaign itself, once I installed it on my desktop (my laptop's graphics card is awful) I was quite impressed with the atmosphere, simplicity and beauty of the game. Hands down, the best preorder I've ever made.

[knoddy]

updates! load times are epicly long lol might just be my crappy pc
- for some reason the auto detect for graphics settings (if there is one) put everything on ultra which suprisingly my core duo can handle BUT it was choppy as hell so i put everything back to high and battles run much smoother.
- sieges are fun and can be quite hard to defend. the ai splits its troops and attacks from multiple sides
- im really liking the customisation of generals, towns and agents. quite cool!

question - to put a general in charge of a fleet do u just put him on the ships as if for transport? and he automatically takes charge?

[sassbarman]

Yup it's hard. I'm playing on lengendary difficulty and have just lost my first campaign in eons in 12 turns. A bit of advise if I may BUILD UP BEFORE ATTACKING ANYONE!

[antisocialmunky]

First TW in a long time to actually earn its score. (That wasn't an expo)

[Doug-Thompson]

updates! load times are epicly long lol might just be my crappy pc



Oh no. I have a fine PC and good internet connection. My hardware is well beyond the recommended requirements. I started updating, went to the grocery store, picked up some milk and peanut butter, then went to the pet store to get some pet food. Steam is telling me I'll be able to play in 3 hours and 58 minutes.

EDITED P.S. Oops. Pardon me. New development. Now it's saying 7 hours and 23 minutes. I guess I should be planning a good night's sleep, then getting a few minutes of play time before going to work in the morning. I should also mention that I bought the game on DISC. I'm not downloading from Steam. I'm just trying to activate it. And yes, I got the Limited Edition too.

[Krusader]

Enjoyed it. Pre-ordered Limited Edition so no encryption/pre-loading thingy for me. Quite enjoyed it so far. AI seems better, but need some more battles under my belt before a final verdict can be given.
Tried as Shimazu clan and got my ass handed to me, when the clan I beat up sought allies and got them. Still, played a few battles and it seems to me CA have reintroduced things from older TW titles, like pre-battle speeches. I also enjoyed the hell out of seeing the terrain resemble the campaign map area and the campaign map itself is beautiful and love the artistic style. Much more atmospheric game than previous titles and IMO only RTW and older TW games can compare with atmosphere.

Naval battles were boring though. Think those will get autoresolved.
Scored 3 achievements, 2 in one go even.

Although encountered a CTD doing beginner's naval tutorial, which never is fun.

[Satsuma]

Although encountered a CTD doing beginner's naval tutorial, which never is fun.

Me too. CTD during the advanced naval tutorial :(
Other than that I haven't had too many problems and it seems to run very well on my Core2 Duo (3ghz) with an ancient 9600GT.

Have to agree with the general sentiment above, the mood and style of the game is simply awesome. Very immersive and engaging. The campaign map looks great and the battles seem to flow well.
AI hasn't been very surprising in it's creativity, and it does like to throw everything at the nearest yari spear wall, but besides that it hasn't done anything overly dumb either, which I guess is a step up from Empire on release.

One thing I'm not sure about though (and this could be how I set up my first campaign), is the time limit for victory conditions.
I'm playing as Shimazu and I'm in Winter 1547. If I understand correctly I ony have until the end of the year 1600 to capture Kyoto, plus 40 other provinces?
I currently have 3 provinces after killing off the Ito, one large(ish) army and a reasonable profit of 3k or so each turn.
Can't see myself capturing another 35 or so provinces in the next 13 years!

osu!

[xploring]

Can't see myself capturing another 35 or so provinces in the next 13 years!

osu!

That's 53 years. 1600-1547

Just wondering how many start date are there? And is the auto-run problem from the demo fixed yet?

[Monk]

This thread makes me very hopeful. ~:)

[Kagemusha]

After some initial playing last evening.I am also enjoying the game. I adore the atmosphere, artwork, music and after trying the naval battles. I was positively surprised. Also battle map pathfinding seems to be improved as when i ordered my Bow Ashigaru to skirmish. They actually did that, without me having to micromanage them. Playing from the original STW. I think this is the first time ive witnessed that. The unit closed in to a an enemy unit and started shooting when it got inside an arrow range and when the enemy unit started rushing towards my unit. They actually started withdrawing early enough and towards right direction, which is lovely. The main downside to me is that units seem to be moving quite fast, but overall i am enjoying myself very much after some initial playing.

[The Black Ship]

I feel the battles go way too fast, but I attribute most of that to my brilliant strategy. Actually for the autoresolvers among us I'd suggest foregoing that option since battles are so quick, and your results will be better.

[Zarky]

So far so good, I haven't lost anything important yet, but due to my own actions my first Mori campaign is about to turn really bad.
I only have 3 complaints:
- no separate difficulty for battles and campaign
- scrolling around map is way too slow, but I can use WASD to fix that.
- ship firing ranges are very hard to see in battles, though this could probably be fixed by adjusting settings.

[DisruptorX]

I feel the battles go way too fast, but I attribute most of that to my brilliant strategy. Actually for the autoresolvers among us I'd suggest foregoing that option since battles are so quick, and your results will be better.

Well, the AI always charges, regardless of whether it uses sound tactics or not. I find that the multiplayer battles last much longer, as both players spend most of the battle manoevering into position before they commit. Once the actual fighting starts, it can be over very fast, though.

Combat is rather fast, compared to say, MTW 2. Ashigari fold about as fast as peasants against lancers in Empire, I'd say.

[Reapz]

It's good. It's harder than previous TW games on equivalent setting - it's making me think.

[Samurai Waki]

Maybe I just need to get used to the new graphics or something like that ...

I've been having a hard time adjusting my eyes to the graphics as well... lack of AA stains my eyes

Other than that, I've thoroughly enjoyed it. Finally a return to something resembling Total War!

[Monk]

Impressive...

http://i54.tinypic.com/2rqyts6.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/2rqyts6.jpg

[Jack Lusted]

- no separate difficulty for battles and campaign

You can change the battle difficulty once in a campaign through the game settings menu.

[IRONxMortlock]

You can change the battle difficulty once in a campaign through the game settings menu.

Thanks for that. So if I wanted a normal campaign and hard battles I would start a campaign on normal and then adjust battle difficulty in game settings?

[Jambo]

You can change the battle difficulty once in a campaign through the game settings menu.

Hmm, wow, that's interesting! So it is possible to get a VH campaign and normal battle difficulty after all? Although perhaps from my initial failings with Oda at H I should be rethinking where I start.

[antisocialmunky]

You can change the battle difficulty once in a campaign through the game settings menu.

You sir are awesome.

Also, make it more obvious. I've seen tons of people complaining about wanting easier campaign and even that one reviewer didn't know it.

[gollum]

...and even that one reviewer didn't know it.

No surprises there ;)

[Risasi]

It sounds as if I should give it a look for the single player experience, but I think for multiplayer I will Stick to RTW.

[edyzmedieval]

It sounds as if I should give it a look for the single player experience, but I think for multiplayer I will Stick to RTW.

Why so? S2TW is much more improved over RTW, give it a try.

[Satsuma]

That's 53 years. 1600-1547


oh yeah.....
That'll teach me to post at 3am....
FML.

[Doug-Thompson]

Foot archers actually seem to skirmish well now. This means they should work much more effectively with spears and other melee infantry, making a much better combo. In the past, at least against the AI, I was always able to either charge foot archers before melee units could rescue them, or simply keep the foot archers moving. They can't fire on the move, so the practical effect was to remove them as an effective unit.

Notably, there are no missile cavalry that are armed with javelins. Also, there are no true "double duty" missile cavalry that can melee well. Missile cavalry will have to work with melee units now in close coordination. I don't mean to give the impression that bow cavalry have been "nerfed." That's not true at all. An unsupported melee infantry unit will still melt in front of good bow cavalry. It's just that missile cavalry is no longer as untouchable as it was in M2TW.


Very importantly, light cavalry are faster than bow cavalry now. This should give light cavalry a much more useful role than they ever had in M2TW. Earlier, much of the best missile cavalry was at least as fast as light cav. Also, many of the slower missile cavalry units could melee more effectively than light cav.

In Medieval, either a light cavalry unit would never catch a missile cavalry unit and get shot to pieces while trying, or they'd catch the unit only to lose the fight. You might as well build heavy cav because they were almost as good at chasing away horse archers or pursuit and better at everything else. That's apparently not true in Shogun 2.

[gollum]

I don't think that there was javelin cavalry in the period.

It all sounds good for playbalance, especially that mounted missiles aren;t untouchable. They were impossible to counter in M2 and RTW unless you had your own. M2 was particularly bad because of how string charges were on top of it.

In STW and MTW mounted missiles would be caught by light cavs and playbalance was much better because they had a counter.

[Quickening]

Personally, I think you're all mental for buying this game considering how atrocious Total War and Creative Assembly have been in the past few years. Nonetheless I'm reading this forum with interest just to see if your faith has been rewarded. I won't buy this game no matter what, but a friend of mine did and on the first siege he had the AI moved one single unit to attack his city and it obviously got annihilated. After that the AI just stood there and took the missile hits. Sounds like the "good old days" of Total War to me. But that's his experience, anyone here had any sieges yet? They were just disasterous in Empire.

[Zarky]

a friend of mine did and on the first siege he had the AI moved one single unit to attack his city and it obviously got annihilated. After that the AI just stood there and took the missile hits. Sounds like the "good old days" of Total War to me. But that's his experience, anyone here had any sieges yet? They were just disasterous in Empire.

I've been the defender on quite many sieges, there was 1 siege where AI for some reason refused to send its archers to firing range (3 units) when I had 1, so I had to go and get them. Though at another siege AI sent its general to firing range of my archers (6 units this time) and just stood there, but this was late in the siege when enemy only had 1 other unit not routing. Now that you need generals around to keep morale up, AI seems a bit reckless and throws them to combat (not directly charging spear units at least).

[knoddy]

Personally, I think you're all mental for buying this game considering how atrocious Total War and Creative Assembly have been in the past few years. Nonetheless I'm reading this forum with interest just to see if your faith has been rewarded. I won't buy this game no matter what, but a friend of mine did and on the first siege he had the AI moved one single unit to attack his city and it obviously got annihilated. After that the AI just stood there and took the missile hits. Sounds like the "good old days" of Total War to me. But that's his experience, anyone here had any sieges yet? They were just disasterous in Empire.

defeneded plenty of seiges, the ai is definitely improved. in every siege the ai split its forces and attacked from diff sides. and im yet to see suicidal generals, in every seige the general waits outside missile range then when all other units are routing they dismount and attack on foot.

[Doug-Thompson]

I don't think that there was javelin cavalry in the period.

I phrased that badly. I didn't mean to imply criticism of CA for not including jav-cav. I'm just saying that the lack of jinette-type units is a significant difference from M2.


It all sounds good for playbalance, especially that mounted missiles aren;t untouchable. They were impossible to counter in M2 and RTW unless you had your own. M2 was particularly bad because of how string charges were on top of it.

Agreed.

[Doug-Thompson]

Personally, I think you're all mental for buying this game considering how atrocious Total War and Creative Assembly have been in the past few years. Nonetheless I'm reading this forum with interest just to see if your faith has been rewarded.

Too early to tell, but your comment is interesting. I never played Empire Total War much and didn't even buy Napoleon Total War. Shogun 2 brought me back. As you can see from checking my profile, I've only just started posting on these forums again after an absence of two and a half years.

[Quickening]

Too early to tell, but your comment is interesting. I never played Empire Total War much and didn't even buy Napoleon Total War. Shogun 2 brought me back. As you can see from checking my profile, I've only just started posting on these forums again after an absence of two and a half years.

I loved Rome and Medieval II despite the plethora of bugs that remain to this day, but Empire was just a disaster in every conceivable way, and it still is. It should just be forgotten and never mentioned ever again. Napoleon was improved but by then it was too late and I'd already sworn not to buy another Total War game. If they released a Medieval 3 or a Rome 2 I admit I'd be tempted, but it would have to be unmissable. Deep down I was hoping that Shogun 2 would show that CA have at least learned not to release unfinished games.

[gollum]

Hello Quickening,
i haven' bought the game yet as i am interested to play mp, and i am waiting to see how that will turn out, but i think that the setting is just too good for a TW game from an SP perspective. If i was interested only in that i would have bought the game, it certainly seems good in terms of immersion and atmosphere and the fact that walls can be scaled by infantry shouldhelp the AI a lot. Also the game is not a missile weapon's game which the AI uses badly. I agree with you that Empire was mediocre at best, but i would give it a try if i wanted to play SP only.

[Jasper The Builder]

I agree with you that Empire was mediocre at best

This awful Japanese game won't sell as much as Empire.

Plus in Empire, you had loads of factions, with Shogan you can only play Japanese............BOORRRRRIIIIIINNG

[Jasper The Builder]

I loved Rome and Medieval II despite the plethora of bugs that remain to this day, but Empire was just a disaster in every conceivable way, and it still is. It should just be forgotten and never mentioned ever again. Napoleon was improved but by then it was too late and I'd already sworn not to buy another Total War game. If they released a Medieval 3 or a Rome 2 I admit I'd be tempted, but it would have to be unmissable. Deep down I was hoping that Shogun 2 would show that CA have at least learned not to release unfinished games.

Empire is an amazing game, what the hell you talking about...

[foop]

I'd agree with people when they say that battles go very fast. I've only got as far as the tutorials and I'm already playing things on slow motion. I looked away for a moment and found my bow ashigaru underneath a lot of enemy cavalry, looking very sad.

To compound this, my troops have an incredible desire to run everywhere, unless I keep an iron grip on them. I assume this is some sort of idiocy on my part rather than a bug.

[Furunculus]

played a set piece battle, love it. first for a total war game since medieval.

odd bug:

when the battle finsihed and the notification pops up on screen my mouse pointer disappeared.

i could ctl+alt+del back to desktop, and go back into the game, but never get my mouse back to select the dialogue that would take me back to the main menu.

[Monk]

Shogun 2 is currently the most played game on Steam with 21,292 concurrent players. Which is the first time anything other than an FPS has held the top spot (even if temporarily) in a long time. Congratulations CA, looks like you hit a home-run in both numbers and fan reaction. :bow:

[Kagemusha]

I played more campaign play last evening as Mori and actually lost.It seems gone are the days where one can destroy full stacks with just few units. 1500 strong Ouchi army did short work from my pesky army and captured my home castle while i could do little to stop that from happening. Lovely!:bow:

[Gregoshi]

I'm playing a short Mori campaign on normal. I'm trying to take it slow as far as aggression goes other than taking the missions given. I have the mamoth (3 provinces to my 1) Amako clan on the ropes (I think) but now the "friendly" Kikkawa clan has declared war on me...and I'm stretched a little thin.

So far, the AI has done a respectable job. In a siege attack, it came at me from three directions, which kept me busy. After the Amako besiegers were defeated, their decimated army then did the only thing they could do - attacked and damaged the gold mine I was building. Quite annoying.

For this first campaign, I have the advisor on high and he/she have been very helpful. I am enjoying myself so far - seeing it is after 3am and I didn't really want to quit playing. I'm hoping tomorrow evening stays open to see if I can hold off the Kikkawa clan threat. :2thumbsup:

[crpcarrot]

Personally, I think you're all mental for buying this game considering how atrocious Total War and Creative Assembly have been in the past few years. Nonetheless I'm reading this forum with interest just to see if your faith has been rewarded. I won't buy this game no matter what, but a friend of mine did and on the first siege he had the AI moved one single unit to attack his city and it obviously got annihilated. After that the AI just stood there and took the missile hits. Sounds like the "good old days" of Total War to me. But that's his experience, anyone here had any sieges yet? They were just disasterous in Empire.

I know what u mean Quick but i caved in and downloaded the game last night. ETW was a real let down i probably played only one campain on that game, didnt even bother with NTW but the demo for shogun felt soo good.........

[gollum]

There should be an option in the files to slow down unit speed by home modding foop. I haven't got the game, but it was there in previous TWs.

[Daveybaby]

You could always just play the battles at half speed via the slider.

[gollum]

Originally posted by Gregoshi
After the Amako besiegers were defeated, their decimated army then did the only thing they could do - attacked and damaged the gold mine I was building. Quite annoying.

And quite encouraging too. If the AI does the right thing on normal, i mean :)

[Furunculus]

anyone know the full timeline yet?

i had heard 60 years, which means 240 turns and thus excellent, but some say only over fifty years which is 200+ turns and thus less awesome.

[edyzmedieval]

This awful Japanese game won't sell as much as Empire.

Plus in Empire, you had loads of factions, with Shogan you can only play Japanese............BOORRRRRIIIIIINNG

Awful Japanese game? Boring?

Saying that games like Shogun are boring because there's one single faction is at best, tactless.

And selling as much as Empire, look at the Steam stats right now which will surely disprove your theory. And no, Empire was a disaster from the AI side. Gameplay and depth, very very good, but everything else was more or less a disaster.

[crpcarrot]

Awful Japanese game? Boring?

Saying that games like Shogun are boring because there's one single faction is at best, tactless.

And selling as much as Empire, look at the Steam stats right now which will surely disprove your theory. And no, Empire was a disaster from the AI side. Gameplay and depth, very very good, but everything else was more or less a disaster.

I have to disgree with one thing for me Empire didnt have any depth either otherwise i agree and maybe even feel insulted a little that someone would call the setting that got me interested in Total War in the first place boring!

[Gregoshi]

We ALL have our TW prejudices and biases, so let's not get too bent out of shape if someone doesn't share our opinion of the each TW title - no matter how wrong they are. :laugh4:

[gollum]

heh, yeah, for every new setting, the people who liked the previous one are totally dissapointed, disgusted even at times. When Medieval came out, the ancient warfare buffs were gloomy while the medieval buffs in high spirits. Once Emipre came out, all the sword and buckle fans were slashing wrists and all the gunpowder enthusiasts came out of teh woodwork (many totally new). All the while the Sengoku fans were in grumpy whinning mode. Once S2 was announced everyone was dissapointed (as tehy all expected Rome 2 :), except for the few that were into Sengoku - but eventually this changedover time. To be continued... ;)

What is teh attraction for teh fans of each period is exactly what drives away its critics. For Sengoku is the uniform and smaller rosters, the uniform culture/civilwar scenario, the "small" map and timeframe. Those are exactly its strengths too; uniform and small rosters make for better balance and so better AI performance in battle, uniform culture allows in depth exploration and portrayal of it, and small map/timeframe makes the game more personalised without oversimplifications of provinces or turns that last yaers each. The civil war/unite the country setting, is also perfect for TW; diplomacy is at best used to buy time and its everyone against all in effect, which is what the TW AI understands best.

Its also a matter of which periods you know - some people dislike crtain periods because they know little about them. In that case though the game can be a tool to learn and explore the period too.

[caravel]

This awful Japanese game won't sell as much as Empire.

Plus in Empire, you had loads of factions, with Shogan you can only play Japanese............BOORRRRRIIIIIINNG

Empire is an amazing game, what the hell you talking about...
https://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii12/botanbutton/MACROS%20AND%20GIFS/trollspotted.jpg

[Gregoshi]

Its also a matter of which periods you know - some people dislike crtain periods because they know little about them. In that case though the game can be a tool to learn and explore the period too.
Exactly what happened to me with STW. I knew little about Japanese history and culture and honestly did have ANY interest in it at all. But the TW concept was so revolutionary back then, I just had to try the game - Japan or no. The game really turned me on to things Japanese though, so for that I am grateful and I can fully enjoy Shogun 2 as well. :bow:

[Gregoshi]

We ALL have our TW prejudices and biases, so let's not get too bent out of shape if someone doesn't share our opinion of the each TW title - no matter how wrong they are. :laugh4:

It bears repeating...

[crpcarrot]

just to clear any confusion my comments were totally tongue in cheek (expect the bit about empire being crap and being insulted and .. did i mention you smell? anyway..)

but for those who do get into it you MUST read Shogun and the game will take on a whole new meaning.

[Quickening]

Exactly what happened to me with STW. I knew little about Japanese history and culture and honestly did have ANY interest in it at all. But the TW concept was so revolutionary back then, I just had to try the game - Japan or no. The game really turned me on to things Japanese though, so for that I am grateful and I can fully enjoy Shogun 2 as well. :bow:

I can say the same thing about Rome. Had zero interest in the ancient world at the time. I can honestly say that Rome: Total War turned me onto one hell of a lot of stuff that I'm really fascinated by nowadays.

[Napoleon The Emperor Of Europe]

Inappropriate comment removed. -Kagemusha

I like Shogun 2.

[Gregoshi]

The reason why not many were impressed with Shogun 2,because they were racist.
I think that is a bit extreme. Lack of interest or knowledge is the likely answer.

[Furunculus]

The reason why not many were impressed with Shogun 2,because they were racist.

i don't think there is any evidence to back that up.

[Kagemusha]

I would like to remind everyone that we have certain rules around here, which everyone should follow. Personal attacks and verbal attacks against groups of people are not tolerated.

[LeftEyeNine]

Fighting over why a game is likable and why it's not by others was banned 24 years ago.

[Furunculus]

anyone know if seasons actually make a difference to unit speeds on the campaign map, or unit upkeep when campaigning?

cheers

[Zarky]

anyone know if seasons actually make a difference to unit speeds on the campaign map, or unit upkeep when campaigning?

cheers

I doubt it has any effect on campaign map, only difference I can think of is the weathers effect on how fast units get tired in battle.

[Gregoshi]

It was my impression playing tonight that winter movement on the campaign map was slower by about 1/4 or 1/3 less than other seasons. Units moving from Aki castle to Iwami castle could just about make it in one season. During the winter, however, they seemed to make it up the north road into Iwami but stopped right after turning eastward towards the castle.

[Furunculus]

i'd lovw to see this confirmed, as it it would be an amazing addition given that there would all of a sudden be an ideal campaigning season.

any more takers?

[Samurai Waki]

There's also attrition during the winter, I usually hunker down and stay on my own turf unless I am absolutely sure I can do a siege assault and win.

[crpcarrot]

units also dont get replenished on enemy ground making. I am not certian but i also think movement was less during winter.

[knoddy]

i cant officially confirm it but im certain that units move less during winter and suffer attrition when not within your own territory in the winter.

[Furunculus]

is this mentioned anywhere in the manual?

[Ituralde]

Yeah, definetly reduced movement during winter. I once just barely made it from halfway to the enemy castle back to my own province in Winter. Next Spring I could walk up to the castle in one turn without any problems. Not sure if there's already some reduction in Autumn too. But you have to plan the campaign seasons, I'm still trying to get used to it.

[crpcarrot]

is this mentioned anywhere in the manual?

i dont know which bit your refering to but the attrition is defintely there as you can see your banner flashing witha skull if you in enemy proovince and you see the numbers depleted. if the movement penalty is there it is only slight thats why its hard knowing if its there.

[Furunculus]

cheers all.

[Barkhorn1x]

is this mentioned anywhere in the manual?

I had a laugh over that. Did everyone see the manual. What a POS - and that is being kind. Of course we do have the handy - and nicely done Encylopeadia but - c'mon - that manaul is a joke.

BTW, the limited edition of Combat Mission Beyond Normandy will feature a steel case and a 200 page printed manual done in the style of 1940's US Army field manual.

So, THAT'S a real manual.

[Risasi]

While quaint and nostalgic, paper manuals are so 1980's. I'm fine with a PDF, as long as it's provided with the game and easily downloaded...

[Barkhorn1x]

While quaint and nostalgic, paper manuals are so 1980's. I'm fine with a PDF, as long as it's provided with the game and easily downloaded...

Yea, I know - and that is just sad.

[Forward Observer]

Whether printed on paper as one would get with a physical disk purchase, or on a PDF file that would come with a downloaded version, this is the shortest and smallest manual to ever come with a Total war game--and at only 14 pages--actually only 12 pages of data---if one does not count the perfunctory welcome and installation page.

As small as it is, I spotted several glaring errors that should have been easily spotted with a single proof reading.
1. They mixed up the keyboard select commands for missile troops and Infantry (melee) . There are probably more, but I wasn't ambitious enough to look.
2. The last paragraph in the naval battles section is about ninjas being able to sabotage gates on fortresses.



It's interesting to note that the original US manual for the first Shogun came in at 54 pages--if one includes the keyboard guide on the back cover.
At the time, many thought this was woefully inadequate--especially for a beginner. Odd that the new manual has less than a fourth of the content of the one that came with the premier version of the game and obviously the most primitive game in the series.

Of course I realize that big manuals are a thing of the past, but it is kind of funny when you think about it. Here Shogun 2 is a supposedly the latest iteration of a complex RTS---obviously a more sophisticated and complex strategical and tactical game, but I've seen "dumb as a brick" FPS games come with more written information.

However, in the developers defense, the game does come with several decent tutorials, a constant audible advisor if one so chooses, and as Barkhorn mentioned--the newest feature--the built in extensive Encyclopedia of facts and data. This is probably the wave of the future, and one must simply get used to it. I started out years ago on combat flight sims that used to come with 180 to 300 page manuals which have also gone the way of the Dodo. Regardless, I have always sort of been a book/manual type of learner, but I'm not too old a dog to still learn new tricks, I guess.

Although I bet even Johannes Gutenberg would be pretty impressed with gadgets like the "Nook" and the "Kindle", I personally will continue to read and enjoy the fruits of the bookbinders craft in the good old fashioned way.

I predict the next TW game will have a either a single sheet of paper or a PDF file for a manual consisting of 2 printed pages: Page one will list warnings and contents--then page 2 will consist of a single sentence that states: "After downloading, or installing from disk, start the game and play it!" :laugh4:


Cheers

[edyzmedieval]

While quaint and nostalgic, paper manuals are so 1980's. I'm fine with a PDF, as long as it's provided with the game and easily downloaded...

Remember those huge manuals games came with in the games 5-6+ years ago? PDF is fine for an extra digital copy, but manuals should still be manuals.

I'm not asking for huge 500 page tomes but come on, 18 page manual that covers almost nothing?

[Centurion1]

as someone said, Shogun by James Clavell is a must read.

[Daveybaby]

I really dont see the need for a manual at all - all of the information you need is built into the game.
All the manual really needs to do is tell you how to install the game.

[Barkhorn1x]

I really dont see the need for a manual at all -...

And, what? You never need to visit the loo?

;)

[Doug-Thompson]

Another first impression -- this might be a pretty good game if I could ever get through all the updates downloading from Steam. I'm typing this now while killing time during uploads.

The next time a Total War game comes out, if I buy it, I'll be sure to wait a month so all the fixes can be in place first. Then maybe I could let the updates load overnight and play it the next morning.

[Servius]

I'm not that impressed.

The Pros:
1) It has 4 seasons per year.
2) The agent movies are back in
3) Each region has 1 town/camp that gives each region something special. This could be a forest, which produces the Wood commodity and reduces the cost of ships built there, to a blacksmith, who can either upgrade the armor or melee weapons of the units produced there.
4) The diplomatic options to request a faction sever trade links or join a war are back.
5) It hasn't crashed yet.
6) If you've just captured the last region of a faction, you can choose to make them a vassal. No more having to negotiate whether someone becomes a Protectorate or not.

The Cons:
1) I feel like the engine is just an upgraded Rome: TW engine. I get this feeling because a) all the faction flags are circles again, b) the infantry accelleration speed and run speed seem really fast (just like in RTW, they moved WAY too fast), c) the hail of arrows still looks a screen of white filaments, just like in RTW, and d) there are no more towns on the camp map. Pre-battle speaches are back in too.
2) The campaign map is ugly. I have a Radeon 5700, Win 7 64-bit, and settings are on ultra, and no season looks particularly nice. I really miss Empire's bright colors. Green grass and blue oceans...Empire's campaign map was beautiful. S2's oceans are almost black and the land looks like the sun never really shines on it.
3) The units in the battle maps also look bad. You can't tell them apart by their armor/clothes anymore, only the flags distinguish them. And because all their armor is black, and the Anti-Aliasing is disabled, and I can't seem to turn off the bloody bloom, it looks like a black mass with way too many white jagged lines accenting everything.
4) The scale is SEVERELY reduced. There are 6 trade nodes in the entire game. There are no more towns, just region capitals (again, just like RTW).
5) After setting the last 4 games in Europe, a contintent with which I am well acquainted with, I'm having trouble caring about S2's campaign map. I know none of the regions by name. Each one seems like just another generic territory. In Empire, I knew almost every region in Europe and the Americas (though India was pretty foreign to me). In Empire, when England and France fought, it felt important, because the rivalry between those two nations is so old and well known, but now none of the factions in S2 carry that same weight.
6) The UI is HUGE, and wherever the UI touches the edge of the screen, you can't use your cursor to move the camera around.

I know several of these are based on my personal preferences, and so may not apply to everyone, but I feel the game is just much smaller and uglier than Empire. You make less money, you can have fewer trading partners, it takes longer to develop units (because you can build fewer in each region), There are only 2 religions, and 1 race, and 6 trade nodes, 10-ship max fleets, and 1 theater... I've already found it hard to get interested in it and have started going back to Empire. Now if I could just get that game to stop crashing before the 30th turn... :-)

[Liberator]

4) The scale is SEVERELY reduced. There are 6 trade nodes in the entire game. There are no more towns, just region capitals (again, just like RTW).

5) After setting the last 4 games in Europe, a contintent with which I am well acquainted with, I'm having trouble caring about S2's campaign map. I know none of the regions by name. Each one seems like just another generic territory. In Empire, I knew almost every region in Europe and the Americas (though India was pretty foreign to me). In Empire, when England and France fought, it felt important, because the rivalry between those two nations is so old and well known, but now none of the factions in S2 carry that same weight.

I know several of these are based on my personal preferences, and so may not apply to everyone, but I feel the game is just much smaller and uglier than Empire. You make less money, you can have fewer trading partners, it takes longer to develop units (because you can build fewer in each region), There are only 2 religions, and 1 race, and 6 trade nodes, 10-ship max fleets, and 1 theater... I've already found it hard to get interested in it and have started going back to Empire. Now if I could just get that game to stop crashing before the 30th turn... :-)

4.) I dont see that scale has be reduced at all. In Empire, there was just one building to recruit all land units except artillery. Now there a much more different recruitment buildings.
And the "towns" in empire didn't really matter so such, did say? In essence, they where just buildings outside the stronghold with a city name. Now there are still buildings outside the stronghold. They just have no name. Who can handle all these japanese names, anyway? :dizzy2:
Japan didn't do much trade with the outside world back them, so 6 trade spts are quite justified.

5.) Well, I always enjoyed to learn something new while playing games, in strategy games that was often geografic or historic knowledge. You probably heard of "Fukushima" in the news recently. Well, this province actually exists in Shogun.

I guess it is quite likely that you run out of trading partners at a certain stage of the game, but I think that this just enhances the challenge in the later phases of the game, otherwise, once you would have conquered, say, 25 regions, it would be too easy.
I would have liked to see different buddhist sects, but I can live without them.


My one and only Con is *surprise* *surprise* the AI in battles so far.
1. The AI often does not deploy units reasonably in battles.
In ambushes, it often splits its army, giving the player the possibility to rush at one group, finishing it of, and than turn to the other.
When attacking in seiges, it often splits idiotic, too. Often seen some archers attacking from one side, while the rest of the attacking army attacks from another side. That gives the player the opportunity to kill the archers of with cavalry.

2. Also often in seiges, the attacking AI general does nothing until the battle is lost, than he starts attacking. He dismouts (!) and climbs up the castle walls. Kamikaze.
Eighter he dies fighting in the castle, or he flees. But if he flees, he doesn't mount his horse again. Easy kill for my cavalry.

[antisocialmunky]

On the legendary difficulty and with the hard RPS system, generals actually are really good at taking out defenders on castle walls.

[Daveybaby]

2) The campaign map is ugly. I have a Radeon 5700, Win 7 64-bit, and settings are on ultra, and no season looks particularly nice. I really miss Empire's bright colors. Green grass and blue oceans...Empire's campaign map was beautiful. S2's oceans are almost black and the land looks like the sun never really shines on it.
3) The units in the battle maps also look bad. You can't tell them apart by their armor/clothes anymore, only the flags distinguish them. And because all their armor is black, and the Anti-Aliasing is disabled, and I can't seem to turn off the bloody bloom, it looks like a black mass with way too many white jagged lines accenting everything.

I have to agree, especially on the battlemaps. All of the soldiers look like theyre made of polished metal. I'm assuming this is mostly down to the lack of AA, and will be better after the patch. It's not stopping me from enjoying the game, but i cant believe they released it looking like this.

As for everything else youve listed, i find it pretty interesting, because it amply demonstrates that you cant please all of the people all of the time. All of the things youve listed as good points i couldnt care less about (apart from the crashing of course) and the things youve listed as negatives (scale, setting) are the very reasons most of us are liking the game (and why some disliked empire). Some people just want different things from games, and i guess this one just isnt for you.

[al Roumi]

I'm only about half way through my first campaign and I'm firmly in the happy camp. Credit where credit is due, I applaud CA for the quality of S2. It still has some rough edges but this is leaps and bounds on from Empire's fuddle. I winged quite alot about Empire so I feel I should be vocal about my pleasure from S2. :bow:

[LeftEyeNine]

Most of Servius1234's con's are graphical or trivial, no ?

[Monk]

Game arrived late afternoon yesterday, sooner than expected. Had some time with it and a few things I gotta say: Wow.

Chose Date as my first clan. They start divided and in the midst of a minor civil war, marched out to deal with the rebels. When i finally managed to pin them down in a fight I thought i'd try a staple TW tactic of mine. In every 3d total war game I always draw the Ai into wasting its cavalry early on by putting my archers in from of my main line. The AI usually sees the 'unprotected' bowman and charges straight away at them. Of course it's a trap, since as soon as I see them commit I pull my archers b ehind a line of spearman and the Ai will charge head-on to death. However this time was.. different.

The very moment I pulled my bowman backj, the Ai actually canceled it's charge. Not only that it pulled its horsemen back to its mainline, (since they were now in within range of my archers). Its a very minor thing but it really surprised me and set the tone to come. The AI in every engagement I fought was competent. It seemed more focused on outmanouvering me than out-fighting me, almost never staying where originally deployed and seeking better terrain.

A couple things that put me off in the demo were 1.) AI always running to its destinations and tiring itself out, and 2.) suicidal cavalry/general charges. After a few hours with the game I can say that both of those seem to be dealt with, at least to some extent. The Ai protected its general (only throwing him in as a last resort) and conserved its troops energy as it marched. It also held formations incredibly well. Very surprised.

Oh and my first campaign ended in defeat by the way. I managed to capture the Mogami (minor clan next to Date's) province and began to built up for a push to take their last province. When i marched out in the Spring I suddenly found myself starring down a Mogami counter attack that was equal in number to my own force. Only problem? They were loads better quality wise, which almost a fullarmy of samurai. :sweatdrop: Managed give them one heck of a bloody nose but my forces were mauled in the end.

[LeftEyeNine]

Moar input expected from Monk.

[Monk]

Moar input expected from Monk.

What that wasn't good enough? :laugh4:

Played a little more this morning. AI is hit or miss to be honest. Sometimes it sees through my attempts to be gamey, other times it charges its general in for no reason. Sometimes it's completely conservative with its cavalry, other times it throws it away for no reason. Obviously there's something going on in the AI's 'brain' that makes it think charging a general in some instances is a good thing. And in some it is, but not in the situations it's choosing. Still - the battles are tough enough on their own. Had a knock-down drag out fight with the Takeda over south Shinano and almost won, but the AI bested me yet again.

It's okay I got my revenge a bit later, but I still couldn't turn the tide. The Takeda had vassalized or otherwised conquered much of eastern Honshu, so when their alliance declared war on me, much of my neighbors saw it as the time to strike. Even though I turned back the Takeda alliance (with much bloodshed) I ended up falling to the Hattori, who used the chance to strike at my weakened capital.

As a side note on something a bit random (general speeches). My top guy was a four-star, when he first clashed with Shingen he mocked the Takeda in his speech, making jokes and laughing at their expense. I lost that battle, the second time he faced the Takeda (again, led by Shingen) he wasn't joking around so much. Again, i lost. By the third battle he displayed true respect for the Takeda and warned his men not to take them lightly. This time i finally won. It was an interesting change to see from the general of my army, like the two losses humbled him.

[crpcarrot]

well after the weekend of ignoring my wife , not eating properly and smoking a lot more than usual i'm really enjoying TW2. i agree with previous posters that diffrentiating units is hard, very hard but the run speed is really not an issue for me anyway. re AI i have not seen any crazy behaviour yet but i'm sure i will come up against it on the future.

the drop in battles system would be great if it works properly. it only worked for me twice. once in my campaign game and once when i serached for a drop in. and this is the first time i ever used muntiplayer in any TW game. i think i ahve 50% win ratio from 8 battles.

[Centurion1]

been playing on very hard/ hard (you can change battle difficulty seperately). started with chokosabe because im a turtle and their position is so good on shikoku for that. played 8 battles on land one on the sea. won all of them though i didnt play the naval one it was 3v1 and the enemy only had a trade ship. i have one south indonesian trade node. i have my starting position and my former ovelrords province. im unfortunately allied with the sogo and miyawi ?sp? meaning without stabbing i dont know how to conquer my island. im thinking sogo since they arent married to my daughter.

to be able to play i put all of the settings on the lowest possible and it really doesnt look that bad tbh.

[LeftEyeNine]

Sent a to-be-replenished army of Yari Samurai into Hyuga territory for scouting, got ambushed by, I guess, 210 men which were Ito Yari Ashigaru and Bow Ashigaru. I played the conflict -hard to name this a battle- myself. Bow Ashigaru was climbing a steepness on top of which my men were standing ready in the woods. As I saw them coming, I "rapid-advanced" my men towards them, slaying most and routing the left 40~. Then Yari Ashigaru were left and I charged them as well, killing until only 1 of them could escape the battlefield despite my men being ordered to chase to the last one.

Tactical absurdity of AI or Yari Samurai were too good despite being outnumbered 1 to 3 ?

[al Roumi]

Sent a to-be-replenished army of Yari Samurai into Hyuga territory for scouting, got ambushed by, I guess, 210 men which were Ito Yari Ashigaru and Bow Ashigaru. I played the conflict -hard to name this a battle- myself. Bow Ashigaru was climbing a steepness on top of which my men were standing ready in the woods. As I saw them coming, I "rapid-advanced" my men towards them, slaying most and routing the left 40~. Then Yari Ashigaru were left and I charged them as well, killing until only 1 of them could escape the battlefield despite my men being ordered to chase to the last one.

Tactical absurdity of AI or Yari Samurai were too good despite being outnumbered 1 to 3 ?

Ambushes are double edged IMO. The attacker sets up very close to the defender, potentially losing the benefit of causing ranged damage. Sounds like you were able to focus your forces on parts of the enemy, bit by bit. Also I find that ambushes aren't as murderous as you might think unless the defenders are actually surrounded and overpowered.

I'd say it was a glorious victory to you, but a tactical catastrophe on the behalf of the AI. :smile:

[LeftEyeNine]

Hrlm let's attribute this to those troops not having a general then.

Fine by me. :beam:

[Red_Russian13]

Been playing about a week now. Shimazu campaign on easy (yes, I said easy).

First let me say, once again, that I despise having to run games through Steam for a multitude of reasons. I presently live in Germany, and I had to purchase the game behind a VPN. Then I had to download behind a VPN, which took almost two entire days. I am not a fan of the whole "you need to be online" in order to play games that I purchase on a CD/DVD. I'm not a fan of the forced patches, which wrecked several Empire: TW games I had going. In closing, I do not like Steam, but I suppose that's the wave of the future...

Pros:
1.) I like this game. A lot.
2.) The campaign feels very immersive, and I hope that if they ever make Rome 2, they do something similar. The RPG aspect is a great addition.
3.) It runs well on my computer even at high settings. Napoleon did not. I find the campaign map and the interface to be beautiful.
4.) The AI seems, to me, to be improved. Both on the campaign map and the battlefield. I'll concede that I'm not as picky as most in this regard, however.
5.) Love the encyclopedia, though it's sometimes a little clunky. Heck of an idea though.
6.) It seems challenging; I suffered some pretty significant set backs when I tried to play blitzkrieg total war as I have in past games. Can anyone say food shortage...?
7.) I can no longer fight an entire stack of units and lose ~100 men. I sometimes will lose 400 or more in a battle I win handily. It's a bummer, but I kinda like it too. Very few lopsided victories.
8.) Agents are utterly awesome. I like the assassinations aspect. In previous games, I have perhaps assassinated 20 agents/generals ever, and this is coming from a guy who's probably dedicated a solid year of his life to Total War games. In this one, I may not kill outright, but I can injure them, which takes them out for a period of time. The success is a mixed bag, however. A good matsuke will imprison half my roster of agents! Good stuff though, and I love the RPG element of this as well.

Cons:
1.) I don't like how the map turns when it zooms into a battle. After that, my angle of view during the rest of an end turn process is different, and I have a hard time orienting myself to the action. It doesn't add anything to the game, and it really throws me off. Surprised this hasn't been mentioned before. It's really my number one gripe.
2.) The tech tree is fantastic, but it sometimes seems to take too long to research stuff. I'm at 1598, and I haven't nearly researched everything.
3.) Contrasting the slowness of number 2, battles seem to go way too fast. I mean seriously. Blink and you'll miss 1/2 of the battle. Yes, I know the katana was deadly, but really? Let's slow it down a bit.
4.) Not intimately familiar with this period of Japanese history and the warfare associated with it, but archers seem unduly powerful. Not that I mind, since I use them a lot... But some of those dudes are like WWI machine gunners, and an entire unit of Shimazu katana samurai will be decimated before they make contact.

Pro/Con Toss-up:
1.) Nanban...You know it. The little musketeers are virtually worthless, but it's neat to play with them. But good lord does Christianity put a hurting on your provinces. I like it to a degree, but I'm not sure why I can't lock those Europeans into their little port and ban the conversion of my people. The conversion bonus a port gets is insane...

All in all, I have to say I'm very pleased. The game seems balanced and immersive. I fell in love with RTW, even vanilla. Then fell in love again with the mods. Medieval 2 was pretty good as well. Empire was playable, but it didn't pull me in (plus it just didn't work for crap on my machine for some reason). Napoleon was pretty interesting sometimes, but I grew tired of it quickly. So I have to say, good job CA. I dig it. A lot.

[Zarky]

4.) Not intimately familiar with this period of Japanese history and the warfare associated with it, but archers seem unduly powerful. Not that I mind, since I use them a lot... But some of those dudes are like WWI machine gunners, and an entire unit of Shimazu katana samurai will be decimated before they make contact.

Pro/Con Toss-up:
1.) Nanban...You know it. The little musketeers are virtually worthless, but it's neat to play with them. But good lord does Christianity put a hurting on your provinces. I like it to a degree, but I'm not sure why I can't lock those Europeans into their little port and ban the conversion of my people. The conversion bonus a port gets is insane...


I absolutely agree with the archer part, especially in castle defense they easily tear any assaulting ashigaru units a new one so fast that they're then easily routed. And if AI comes with an army that is mostly archers, mine can still decimate their melee units effectively and then retreat to a higher level out of range and let towers to their business.
edit: It's gotten so bad I'm actually considering fighting castle battles like they actually did and start deploying outside of my castle.

I just don't see the Nanban trade ports as that big of a deal. Their conversion is easily outdone by a Buddhist temple and a single good monk, if you can't spare that much, should you really be letting the Nanban in? I think insane is overstating it, annoying is more like it.

[Red_Russian13]

I just don't see the Nanban trade ports as that big of a deal. Their conversion is easily outdone by a Buddhist temple and a single good monk, if you can't spare that much, should you really be letting the Nanban in? I think insane is overstating it, annoying is more like it.

Fair enough. I have not done any rigorous scientific studies, but I recall the port getting a 3.5 conversion bonus, and some have also lamented about having to use 3 monks or something to combat it. I cannot remember what a good Buddhist temple gives. I'll have to try it out.

[Dead Guy]

I agree with pretty much all your points, Red Russian13.

The zoom'n'twist thing is pretty annoying, even in your turn when, for example, an enemy fleet withdraws, and you don't get to see where to because you're looking at your fleet.

Not too bothered by not being able to complete the tech-tree though. I actually think that's a pretty good thing. I like choices and consequences in games. Instead of being done with tech and converting all your schools to textile mills ~100 turns from the end, you actually have to choose which arts you want to pursue in each campaign.

[Gregoshi]

Not too bothered by not being able to complete the tech-tree though. I actually think that's a pretty good thing. I like choices and consequences in games. Instead of being done with tech and converting all your schools to textile mills ~100 turns from the end, you actually have to choose which arts you want to pursue in each campaign.
Exactly. I like all the choices the game throws at you. I'll sit there and aggonize over such decisions. :2thumbsup:

[Zarky]

Fair enough. I have not done any rigorous scientific studies, but I recall the port getting a 3.5 conversion bonus, and some have also lamented about having to use 3 monks or something to combat it. I cannot remember what a good Buddhist temple gives. I'll have to try it out.

If you own a holy site, which are hard to come by starting as Kyushu-clan (closest in Mori starting province) and build Pilgrim hostel, that gives you 3 star monks available to recruit from that province. That +being a Buddhist clan +beginning level temple combined give 4 to conversion.

It's true that you need 3 monks to fight the conversion, if you have 3 1-star monks.

[Red_Russian13]

I agree with pretty much all your points, Red Russian13.

Not too bothered by not being able to complete the tech-tree though. I actually think that's a pretty good thing. I like choices and consequences in games. Instead of being done with tech and converting all your schools to textile mills ~100 turns from the end, you actually have to choose which arts you want to pursue in each campaign.

Thanks, Dead Guy.

I'm sort of torn about the tech tree. I guess I figure if I dedicate time and energy to it, I should be able to get most of the tech. But like Gregoshi said, it's neat to sort of mull your options. Definitely makes it more challenging.

[quadalpha]

I remember reading somewhere that "not being able to research all the tech" was a design feature.

[ByzantineKnight]

Just as a heads up, Steam has an offline mode that you can use. It won't patch the game or require an internet connection. Not nearly as convenient as a CD copy with downloadable patches but workable.

[therother]

I like the arts tree as well, balances the game somewhat as the player doesn't rush ahead tech-wise. I've found if you dedicate monk and general skill points to the chi arts and capture/build libraries, you can get most of them, especially if you don't care about some arts until later in the game when your rate bonuses are much larger than at the start of the game.

The Nanban Quarter is a bit of a pain, 6% conversion per turn in the province plus 3% in all neighbouring provinces. That's a lot, given you only have a limited number of monks, and I'd rather be using them to incite and demoralise than counter conversion. Seems like Sado is the ideal place to build it, with a temple and a decent monk! You do get the Nanban trade ship which, whilst not as powerful as the Black Ship, still packs a mighty punch versus standard Japanese vessels. And if you have access to the famous temple (or the temple complex with a good monk and alternate his province), it's not so much of a problem.

As an aside, can't you turn off auto-updating? I seem to recall a steam option somewhere to do that. I've not had a problem with it, but I suppose I tend to not shut the game down that much.

[seireikhaan]

Start numero uno, with shimazu. Recruit couple of turns, take army to next province over, lay siege. General from fow pops in and tries to relieve, get a battle against 1100 or so with my 800. AI does some idiot things with its cavalry and I win handily with only about 175 casualties. Next turn, occupy near empty castle. Wait a bit, recruit a bit, heal a bit. 6 turns later, send army to east, thinking it was last enemy province. March out. Get popup saying guys north are backstabbing me. Meanwhile, old enemy's general with about 2000 troops pops in through FoW north of me through a passage in mountains I didn't know he had access to. He has one turn to get to my more or less defenseless capital, I have 3 to get there with my army.... :furious3: Rage quit, start over.

Try numero dose, again with Shimazu. Same beginning as last, up through occupying first castle. I probe a bit east this time for enemies afterwards, but don't make a comittment, end up beating a few randoms down. Given a bit of time, and a more reasonably well defended castle, I venture eastward to take enemy's castle. Along the way, enemy commander with their army(waiting in the same passage as last time) decides to try and beat me to their castle. I reach it first, take it with no effort against a single unit. He burns a village on the way to a siege defense, where I thwart him somewhat soundly, though I took some casualties. Next turn, Shoni declare war on me with their ally, the dudes north of me, on the turn they both decide to send armies(about 1200 and 1800 each), ending easily 1 turn away from the capital, which has about 800, mostly ashigaru, units. ..... :furious3:

Might try a hand at that tomorrow.

edit: oh right, game quality. Well, AI's been kinda idiotic with its cavalry thus far, but was decidedly impressive in coordinating two factions to get their armies at me in a "timely" fashion. Game's pretty. I dl's a mod to reduce unit speed, so its a bit better paced than I recall the demo being. Ashigarus route fast for my taste, however. Need a slight morale boost or something. Maybe its more reasonable later in game though. :shrug: Favorable so far, I guess.

[Rothe]

Pros:
- Shogun theme, I loved the book "Shogun" and the time period is nice for variety of troop types etc.
- Improved AI: for me, the AI is a bit improved, although it is not a big jump forward from ETW
- Tech tree: I like the split and the fact that you probably can't research everything. Also, you can't just go with bushido or chi and forget about the other side.
- Generals: I like the XP system (Also see agents). It is really nice to be able to customize the generals.
- Agents: I like the RP side of the agents, and the fact that they added ways to hamper agents without killing them is nice. It makes it possible for the agents to develop without getting killed before they get to be good at anything.
- Unit variety: Just a starting observation that might change, but it seems the units are varied enough
- RPS: RPS seems to work for most of the units. Heavy infantry seems to break that a bit, being good enough vs. spears and cavalry at the same time.
- Visuals: Looks really nice, but still plays ok with Ultra detail on my 2 years old PC.

Cons:
- Bugs: I get a CTD when I start my second battle in a "session" of play. No idea why. I have to save a lot.
- Twisting camera on the campaign map. I don't enjoy it too much.
- Campaign AI attacks fortified towns too easily. AI should not attack towns without superior troops, especially it if lacks a back up army to defend its nearest castle. The fact is that the fortifications make the battles really lopsided, especially if the defender has missile troops.
- Suicidal generals: Not as bad as in earlier TW's, but the enemy generals still often charge in. It seems that they notice a weak position to exploit with a charge, but the player can reinforce it quickly and disengaging is not something I've seen the AI do ever.

Not sure yet:
- Naval combat: I have to admit I have not tried it even once. I autoresolve it always. Perhaps I try it later when I have more time, now I prefer to use it on the land battles.
- Diplomacy and the realm divide. I suspect I will grow to like the divide, as it gives the game some stages when you need to rush and others where you need to stop and gather strength. I can see why some don't like it, but I think might be a good thing to not be able to grow too powerful before the AI turns on you en masse.

[Shaka_Khan]

How are the graphics. Can someone post a screenshot?

[A Nerd]

Here you go shaka! :)

Screen shot thread. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?133978-The-Shogun-2-Screenshot-thread)

[Daveybaby]

As an aside, can't you turn off auto-updating? I seem to recall a steam option somewhere to do that. I've not had a problem with it, but I suppose I tend to not shut the game down that much.
Yeah, but it's very complicated to do. You have to right click on the game and untick the 'always keep this game up to date' option.
AAAAARGGGHH!!!! DAMN YOU STEEEAAAAMM!!!! :furious3::furious3::furious3::furious3:

:wink:

It amazes me that people can complain about this stuff like it's ruining their entire life, yet they havent even bothered to check if it can be turned off.

[LeftEyeNine]

@Yaseikhan

Have taken my 5th attempt at Shimazu campaign a few days ago (the previous 4 were disastrous/locked) and it's still ongoing, so I thought I may show off and brag over some battle scars of mine.

The con-Quest of Osumi; IT'S A TARP.

Make good friends with Sagara (to the north of you, Higo province). Obtain a military passage and penetrate Ito province of Hyuga via the very same passage through the valley in Higo.You may need to bulk up some 1500 men first, I can't recall exactly. There you'll find the main Ito army roaming, some troops seperately etc. Once you conquer the province, Osumi below is child's play. It's almost like "buy one get one free".

The developments on the island are COMPLETELY random. In 3 out of my 5 games, Shino was the evil :daisy: acting quite expansionist and treacherous. However in one, Sagara, quite the dependable one if you secure his alliance first, captured Hyuga before me as I was meddling with Osumi, bulking an army etc. I was locked away from progression, no real income to build an army to push through. I captured Higo later on but that was it; Sagara and Shino had both more might than me. I just couldn't move my main army which I couldn't support with new troops due to costs incurring. As soon as I lifted my finger, either, thanks to Higo province's geographical exposure to almost the "whole world", I was either pressed back by Sagara from Bungo and even Hyuga or from the north by Shino. Desperatequit.

In my 5th attempt I have 13 provinces now, all of Kyushu and the western-end provinces of the Honshu island such as Nagato, Suo, Aki etc.

Of course you may not want to copy another one's strategy. After all each take at the game yields somewhat different results, Kyushu was a league of nations before I went medieval-Japan on them, for instance.

Last words: Your real enemy is the dependable Sagara to the north. They are highly likely to screw you up/lock you away from progress. Remain allies until you've captured what they would before you. That will give you enough power to deal with Shino already.

Osu ! :bow:

[LeftEyeNine]

Oh and if the island have visitors landing on the east part, let them clash. I conquered easily what was divided already. I remember finishing off 3 clan existences in 2 turns once; so feeble were they.

[Khisanth Magus]

- Suicidal generals: Not as bad as in earlier TW's, but the enemy generals still often charge in. It seems that they notice a weak position to exploit with a charge, but the player can reinforce it quickly and disengaging is not something I've seen the AI do ever.

This is something I've also noticed quite a bit. The enemy general will see what seems to be a weakness in my line and charge in, at which point I just disengage a unit of spearmen or 2 to swarm the general and kill him almost effortlessly.

Overall I'm really enjoying Shogun 2. Other than a few AI glitches here and there, particularly in sieges, I'm really enjoying it, more than I have enjoyed a TW game in quite a while(one time the enemy army attacked my castle. They had me way outmatched, but thanks to how unbalanced siege warfare is in this game in favor of the defenders, I trounced his attacking units thoroughly. However, his general just sat out there on his horses without moving the entire time. As my defenders had been so depleted I wasn't sure I could defeat the general in an even battle out in the field, I had to sit there and wait for the battle timer to expire).

Speaking of which, however...I do kind of wish that defending wasn't quite so one sided, particularly when I'm defending. I can usually overwhelm the computer with rather minimal casualties when attacking, but I don't think I've lost a single siege defence, even when there was barely anything more in the castle than the retainers that come with it. There really is no good way until you get to the second level of siege tech for the attacker to even out the fight(short of overwhelming archers), and I have yet to see the AI have even fire bombers, let alone anything more advanced.

Which also brings up another point. I think archers are a bit too powerful in this game. It is most obvious in castle defence, when most of the attacking units don't even reach the walls if I actually have the castle manned, they usually rout from just archer fire alone. On the field cavalry can sometimes even things up, but as with seige equipment, I have yet to see the computer field anything but light cavalry, even when I know they are capable of fielding more(I took over a province from the Hojo clan that could make both katana and archer cavalry, yet they never made either). Light cavarly are too easy to shred with even one unit of the basic yari unit.

[Dexter]

Hello there Total War players, gamers, whatever you are called today ...
I have not been active for a long time, yet i do lurk in the "shades / shadows" from time to time.

I am glad to see that most of you have discovered, shared there views of this game, i had, rather have the opportunity to play it as well, yet time is not my friend.

So far i can cope with most of it's Empire likeness, even though it bugs me, specially on the battle map where the old alt and ctrl commands are gone, or i have not discovered the "new" and "improved" method of giving command to my units, but i still do manage.

Another thing that hit me was how fast battles have become ... i used to play battles for 25-40 minutes, changing formations, luring etc, but now once the "move" phase is over all is decided in 15-20 seconds witch did leave me TT_TT for the "old Shogun". What is the deal with this speed ???

Alas, toss all that aside, even the rock, paper scissors explanations, fantasy elements, one thing that i can not, will not forgive is the movement of the gold mines of Kai to Izu.

I do emphasize that i'm no expert on Japan (any era) but even my limited knowledge, and all maps do show that Kai (the historically province) does have 2 of them, or at least 2 that where used by the Takeda. I could go on explaining how this affected the Takeda tax laws and so on ... but even you can search for that on the web.

Please not that my "native" tongue is not English, and it is certainly possible i used some not exactly adequate words to express my thoughts, neither did i check this text for orthographic errors. Sorry ...

This post is long enough, so i shall leave it as it is for now.
I's a game, i know, worthy to be called the successor of Shogun ... well .. we shall see ...

[tigger of kai]

Hey guys, anyone seen any good printable flowcharts like there have been for the previous games? The in-game encyclopedia is great, but I'd like to keep one for quick reference, especially for the buildings.

[HopAlongBunny]

Installed and updated.

Have only done the first couple of tutorials :p Controls don't seem too different, but I'll probably have to see if I can customize a lil

Graphics are purty! That won't sustain interest through a campaign but it is nice :)

Now I need to see how long it takes to lose my first S2 campaign!