Keeping casualties down

[Jacke]

It's usually not enough to win a battle, as there's always more to come. You have to win with as few casualties as possible (except in the rare circumstances you have an excess of troops and a shortage of Mnai, where the butcher's bill helps with the paymaster's bill).

Reading other player's AAR's and other battle reviews, it's seems that other players are often doing better than me. I'm interested in how you keep your casualties low.

I know the standard tricks, like using javelins, slingers, and archers (like the awesome Toxotai Kretikoi), especially against flanks and rears of units.

I'm still not certain about the use of Guard Mode. With it on and the enemy attacking you, your units are supposed to tire more slowly than the enemy and thus outkill them for less losses. However, the times I've used it the enemy gets a better kill rate over my units that overwhelms this.

There is one I've discovered: unless you can break the unit quickly, its usually better to charge them in the flank than in the rear.

When charged in the rear, you've pinned the enemy unit. Like the 28th Regiment at the Battle of Alexandria (1801) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Alexandria) they fight front and back and almost to the death. When charged in the flank, they have someplace to run and will break sooner, allow them to be dealt with for less casualties.

I discovered a good way to use this in siege battles. Where the paths are wide, like at the edge of the town inside the walls, you position 2 units in an L or V formation, with the more forward unit putting its forward flank against the wall to guard it. An enemy attacks that unit and then gets charged in the flank by the other unit. Where I could alternatively pin it between units, my casualties are higher.

[FriendlyFire]

A phalanx set reasonably deep (I use a depth of 6-8 men on huge unit sizes) in guard mode with its flanks protected will get insane kill ratios against almost any other unit: the only things that can really break it are a better phalanx or heavy cavalry. I count on kill ratios of at least 10:1, and sometimes reach 100:1 against light troops. Other spear units with high defense, high mass, and a dense formation will also do very well on guard mode (e.g triarii, professional hoplites), but will generally take casualties faster than a phalanx. In both cases the point isn't really for the unit itself to do enough killing to end the battle (although a phalanx will do that just fine), it's to pin the enemy for a devastating flank or rear attack by another unit, as you've found.

Other tricks to reduce casualties are to fight from higher ground, to pit your fresh troops against the tired troops of an enemy (which of course tends to happen naturally when you fight from higher ground), or to use horse-archer armies. Two horse-archer units should be able to wipe out 200-300 non-elite infantry from an attacking army while taking no losses of their own. It scales up, but the micromanagement gets harder the more you have on the field.

Finally, morale is the real killer. Fight the same enemy army of 1000 men two different ways and get very different outcomes: frontally, in a slogging match, they might fight till they're down to 200 men, and your own casualties will rise proportionately. But if you exhaust them before the lines meet, wear them down with missile fire, threaten their exposed flank or rear, scare them with intimidating units, kill their general, and then inflict massive casualties with a flanking charge, you can break the entire army with a cascading rout. They'll rout with 800 men still perfectly able to fight (just unwilling to do so), which you can then ride down at your leisure, and you'll lose very few men.

[fomalhaut]

The best way i keep casualities down is to keep fights to very short lengths. the very first thing i do when on the field is to isolate and murder the general. my battles are considered a failure if a FM leaves the field alive. This is done by having a FM and one unit of companion cavalry (not the hellenic unit, but just a set of cavalry that helps the general, i use it as a sort of roleplay thing) rush the general, one engaging from front and the other hitting from behind until they die. Luckily Generals tend to think they are tough guys, and will rush away from their line to engage leaving me without fear from their spearmen.

With their general either dead or away from the field, morale is already going to be pretty low with only officers and captains leading the army. eventually the lines engage where i have a strong line held by decent infantry while bastarnae/falxmen or some sort of AP fast moving unit come around the line and envelop the enemy, while my general and his cavalry constantly hammer their line as well. pretty simplistic and doesn't leave much for adaptation to smart A.I. (especially since slingers single out your unarmored falxmen!) but it keeps my casualities pretty damn low even against it Legions (on M or H).

In fact I have a full stack of Illyrian soldiers just damaging the Polybian Legions and honestly their infantry is pretty not good.

also! NEVER have unarmored or inexperienced soldiers in battle unless out of desperate necessity.

[A_Dane]

I usually have my best defence guy form a line (prefferably spearmen to soak up dmg), then i send my sword/ap infantry out to the flanks, a little behind, and send my cavalry to hunt & kill down enemy generals/pin down their cavalry force. Once my main army engages I move my sword/AP units up, encircle the enemy and commence the slaughter. (Note this is mostly with the so-called barbaric nations).

If I'm a hellenistic faction, It's simply a matter of letting the phalanxes soak up the dmg while several cavalry charges deal with them. Can't say I'm normally too bothered by casualties tbh, the only times that i suffer considerable casualties, is when i play Pontus/Hayasdan and the AS strikes me with elite stacks, other than that the enemy breaks pretty quickly if you use some basic flanking techniques & hunting down their generals as others have suggested.

[Lazy O]

First thing you havve to remember is that its a game, referencing to ancient battles is useless. Knowing proper use of tactics like, wedge, flanking, run through, skirmishing is essential. Rule of Thumb is to use all your missiles before engaging melee combat, never engage unless you are 500% sure you can flank them. This is where Marian Legionaries, Samnitici, The Iberians, Thorakitia show their worth.

[Tyrfingr]

1. Spearmen or phalanxes in the front on guard mode to soak up damage
2. "Heavy skirmishers" (quick and nimble swordsmen) to go around the flanks.
3. ?????
4. Profit!

[Lazy O]

1. Spearmen or phalanxes in the front on guard mode to soak up damage


Even levy phalanx can cause horrendous casualties when left to fight it out

[Tyrfingr]

Even levy phalanx can cause horrendous casualties when left to fight it out

Absolutely, and the same goes for levy hoplites. Heck, I'm more scared of the hoplites than the phalanxes...

[fomalhaut]

absolutely, conquering Hellenic towns is quite difficult because of those levied hoplites. I think that's a cool way to reflect the great nationalism and desire for freedom their citizens had, where even their shopkeepers and artisans can stand and fight very well in defense.

[Lazy O]

Not much they can do with an axe or a 21ft spear in their faces..

[Tyrfingr]

Not much they can do with an axe or a 21ft spear in their faces..

True, but it's more likely that they won't be facing the enemy ;)

[Geticus]

Combined arms skirmishing is one of the best ways to minimize casualties. Use javelin armed skirmishers, Jugundiz, Komatai, Thraikian peltasts, Ambushers, Celtiberian javelineers etc. in loose order in front of your main line to skirmish, and support them with archers from a distance. Be sure to conserve their stamina and avoid running, just walk up and start pelting the enemy and let the skirmishers fight slow and steady in loose order. If you have access to skirmisher cavalry, esp. horse archers then surround the enemy flank and rear with missile showers to confuse them further and distract them. Skilled micromanagement, hotkeying multiple army groups helps towards getting into the 100 to 1 kill range. For the ultimate in combined arms skirmishing, money no object I think the Getai are very formideable with their extensive range of high javelin count skirmishers and spearmen, quality foot archers, and quality horse archers.

[Lazy O]

What to do if the enemy does a skirmisher net?

[fomalhaut]

Combined arms skirmishing is one of the best ways to minimize casualties. Use javelin armed skirmishers, Jugundiz, Komatai, Thraikian peltasts, Ambushers, Celtiberian javelineers etc. in loose order in front of your main line to skirmish, and support them with archers from a distance. Be sure to conserve their stamina and avoid running, just walk up and start pelting the enemy and let the skirmishers fight slow and steady in loose order. If you have access to skirmisher cavalry, esp. horse archers then surround the enemy flank and rear with missile showers to confuse them further and distract them. Skilled micromanagement, hotkeying multiple army groups helps towards getting into the 100 to 1 kill range. For the ultimate in combined arms skirmishing, money no object I think the Getai are very formideable with their extensive range of high javelin count skirmishers and spearmen, quality foot archers, and quality horse archers.

not to mention their foot troops are called "wolves", if that's not incentive enough

[KyodaiSteeleye]

If you have infantry with decent defence values, then guard mode is great for reducing casualties - as long as they're not just left to it. In combination with a couple of heavy cavalry units for a hammer, your guard mode infantry will keep the enemy infantry occupied,whilst you're HA repeatedly charge from the rear and get most of the kills. This way, playing romans in advantageous sitations, you will get casualties in the dozens vs hundreds on the defeated side. If you're short of HC or its taking a long time to route the line, flankers in normal mode will speed the process and as they're not bearing the brunt of the enemy unit, shouldn't get many casualties. Skirmishers firing into the backs of occupied enemy units is at least as powerful as a HC charge.

If your infantry are poorer quality than the enemy's, or they have poor defences, you'll likely get much larger casualties, no matter what. My experience with all skirmishers is that unless they have a significant height advantage, using missiles into the front of the enemy line is generally ineffective, as large shields are the order of the day in most armies. They are so much more effective from the left flank or rear - although if there are enemy cavalry units around they'll need looking after by your own.

[athanaric]

A phalanx set reasonably deep (I use a depth of 6-8 men on huge unit sizes) in guard mode with its flanks protected will get insane kill ratios against almost any other unit: the only things that can really break it are a better phalanx or heavy cavalry. [emphasis mine]
Apparently you have yet to get acquainted with these guys:
https://europabarbarorum.com/i/units/baktria/baktria_parasupattyasreni.gifhttps://europabarbarorum.com/i/units/casse/casse_kluddargos.gifhttps://europabarbarorum.com/i/units/getai/getai_thraikioi_rhomphaia.gif
They can break a phalanx from the flanks or from behind and can inflict heavy casualties from the front. So a way to keep your own casualties down is to shoot these guys (or other falxmen) as soon as you spot them.

For Pahlava, the Indian guys are invaluable in siege battles (especially assault) as using them wisely will save you a lot of other, less powerful infantry units.