Battle AI acting strange

[Lord Benihana]

Playing Shimazu on Normal, and the VAST majority of battles have been pretty rewarding. The Battle AI seems to actually try to beat you, which is an upgrade from previous titles where they would either a) charge directly into you, or b) sit and wait for you to destroy them

I did have a weird experience while playing last night. I was up against the Hattori (I think - clan with a red temple on the sheild) - anyway, I had a 5 start general, 2 naginata samurai, 1 spear samurai, and 6 katana samurai. The Hattori attacked me with 2 Generals (2 star each) 3 samurai archers, 2 ashaguru archers, 1 katana samurai, and 11 ashaguru spears. I was heavily outnumbered and out gunned - so I marched my units to the Hattori flank - they barley turned to face me, but did move heir archers to face my front line. I charged the archers and started destroying them and the spearmen that were directly next to them

Now here is where it got weird - the rest of the Hattori army started to slowly march away from me... So there I am, heavilty outnumbered, with the bulk of the opposing army litterally walking off the field... Just as the Hattori Generals were about to exit the field they stopped - turne, and had 1 spear unit stand in front of them. The rest of the spears, and the one katana unit were spread out between me and the general. I was able to reform my line, allow my men to rest, and then destroy their army 1-2 units at a time....

For fun I reloaded and auto-resolved. My army got CRUSHED in the auto resolve

I was wondering if anyone else had seen odd AI behavior like this

[Gregoshi]

Hello Lord Benihana and welcome to the Org! ~:wave:

I've not experienced anything like that yet from the AI. From myself, yes, the AI, no. :laugh4: Maybe they were intimidated by your general and the quality of your army...still doesn't explain the rag-doll defense. Must have been something about the setup and your approach that found a glitch in the AI.

[nafod]

I haven't experienced it myself, but the consensus at TWC appears to be that reinforceing armies are bugged to the point where they often proceed to a corner and huddle.

I only had one battle with a reinforcing army thus far, and I was able to smash our opponent before they arrived, thus I wasn't watching what they were doing.

Reports indicate armies assisting the player or the AI will occasionally not fight. Only becomes REALLY problematic in sieges with the battle timer turned off.

[Monk]

I've noticed oddities as well. In one battle the enemy rode their cavalry up to me, stopped 5 feet in front of my lines, turned around.. and faced away from me. They didn't attack, they didn't move. They just stood there. My samurai were exchanging puzzled looks to one another about what was going on, until someone got the bright idea to attack!

I haven't seen it happen since, and most of my battles have been incredibly fun. But still.. that was weird. :laugh4:

[Centurion1]

I haven't experienced it myself, but the consensus at TWC appears to be that reinforceing armies are bugged to the point where they often proceed to a corner and huddle.

I only had one battle with a reinforcing army thus far, and I was able to smash our opponent before they arrived, thus I wasn't watching what they were doing.

Reports indicate armies assisting the player or the AI will occasionally not fight. Only becomes REALLY problematic in sieges with the battle timer turned off.

it happened to me................ i crushed the first army of kono defedning my daimyo in his only province....... then their allies arrived and sat hidden in the woods in the corner.

[aimlesswanderer]

Yeah, a Takeda stack were reinforcing another of their stacks attacking my castle. They just sat in a hugely concentrated clump at the side of the screen.

So once I finished off the first stack, I sent a cavalry unit near to archery range, and they got themselves moving, sort of. They then moved a bit closer, so I sent some archers, and that got at least the spears moving. They came in first and got themselves massacred. Then the archers walked up and soon ran off. Quality "best ever AI" that.

[Diamondeye]

I find that the AI does very well in regular battles, not to much when defending castles. I've only fought one battle with reinforcements, and that was 1500 enemy soldiers and 60 or so reinforcements, nothing worth mentioning (I killed the others before the reinforcements had a chance to get there, but they were clearly on their way).

[Kocmoc]

Well, the problem with the AI is simple.

The guys who prgramm the AI are not the best player themselves, so we cant expect, that the AI does any better than them!
I will do a quick list:

1. Open formation isnt used
2. even with more missles than you, he is attacking with melee
3. terrain advances are not used
4. army mostly is bunched up, so you can hit a lot with your archer
5. frontal movement all the time

Its terrible, it might be okay for easy or normal, but for hard its crap. We have to consider, that most people will be happy about the easy battles, i think the minority wants harder/better AI on the battlefield.
Still, as long there are programmer who are bad player themselves, we wont see the AI improving at all!

[Napoleon The Emperor Of Europe]

Well, the problem with the AI is simple.

The guys who prgramm the AI are crap player themself, so we cant expect, that the AI does any better than them!
I will do a quick list:

1. Open formation isnt used
2. even with more missles than you, he is attacking with melee
3. terrain advances are not used
4. army mostly is bunched up, so you can hit a lot with your archer
5. frontal movement all the time

Its terrible, it might be okay for easy or normal, but for hard its crap. We have to consider, that most people will be happy about the easy battles, i think the minority wants harder/better AI on the battlefield.
Still, as long there are programmer who are bad player themselves, we wont see the AI improving at all!


hey,You wanted Good AI ,you got it.Dont brag about it,and you're destroying the Game's REP.Remeber these CA people are based in the UK,and they have done a lot of work to get this game on the run.

They want to improve,and you complain.

Remeber this,only CA can make these types of games,no one esle can(Except for modders)By doing this,you are bascially saying that there are better games than CA's total war series.

Crap,No one can outrival CA total war.Imperial glroy,and all those are crap.Total war has more realism than other stragtey games.

For example,the king's speech(Before made into a film)was presented to the BBC,it was rejected,they were saying it was old fashioned and stupid.Then it got made into a film.Now see the BBC saying anything.

In the same way,the Shogun 2 game is very heavily historcial reseraced(they got a couple of good researchers)And they have done a lot of work on the Japan map,this is based on the Sengkho peroid,and it makes me feel ,like I'm in it.

Multiplayer,Dont worry,Steam will update the games,your game will be updated ,so in 6 months,or so,it will work fine.

CA are not corrupt,they just did not have the techonlogy at that time to make the Super games like Napoleon and Shogun 2.

You wanted good AI?You got it,why are you all complaing about it?Its like kids crying!They do a lot of work to please you fans,and in return all they get is negative feedback!

I think CA should stop making games like this,If you say the people who create AI are crap players,then why do you buy?Seriously,if you complain this,I would be happy to stop CA making these kinds of games.

It is unfair,seriosuly stupid,to a group of people who are dedicated to bringing the best games to you,and you disgard it as Crap!

[nafod]

Absent a stickied bug-thread I've noticed two other bugs in the current version SP campaign.

1. It rarely happens but I've seen it reported and it happened to me last night, ships can get stuck on trade nodes and cannot be moved further, additionally they do not count for trade and have to be disbanded.

2. AI Naval invasions. In one Shimazu start on normal that was later abandoned, a Shoni fleet carrying a large invasion force woul sail into the bay south of my first province hesitate at the coast off of Ozumi for a split second then sail back out to sea. This went on for 12 turns (I gave up on the campaign after my mustered navy failed to sink theirs). It looked similar to a draw by repitition from my Chess playing days. Also the coast there is not flat (It's a cliff).

Despite the bugs I can say that I haven't enjoyed a TW this much since RTW.

[Daevyll]

Well, the problem with the AI is simple.

The guys who prgramm the AI are not the best player themselves, so we cant expect, that the AI does any better than them!
I will do a quick list:



1. Open formation isnt used

I agree, havent seem the AI use it so far. Odd, since it did use it in previous TW titles. I'd expect this to be patched.


2. even with more missles than you, he is attacking with melee

I've had the AI move to standoff range and shoot when it had a clear superiority in missile troops (like 2-1 ratio).


3. terrain advances are not used

I disagree. AI definately moves to elevated positions, uses forests for cover/ambushes etcetera.


4. army mostly is bunched up, so you can hit a lot with your archer

Up to a point; they stay in formation whilst marching, but then so do I. Better to lose a few men extra to missiles (you're going to have causalties anyway) than to spread out too far and lose much more because of unsupported and cut off units (especially if enemy has cavalry).


5. frontal movement all the time

Not 100% sure what you mean, but I have seen the AI respond to me trying to get cavalry units round the back by 'detaching' one or more spear units and sending them backward to face my cavalry.



In all I think the AI is a big improvement over previous titles. Occasional glitches are there, but nothing like before.

My biggest gripe is that I still think the AI commits its generals to combat to easily; my biggest victories are won when I kill the general early, causing a huge morale hit to the enemy. I often dont use my own general in combat at all until it is time to chase down routing troops :)
Much more useful to use his abilities and morale-boost-circle-thingy.

[Kocmoc]

Alright.

Do you got any numbers of sitting in woods and get shot by archers? Its just an example...
The AI dont place archer in woods, (not to mention the open formation or in low ranks). You lose around 50-70 less just by standing in woods.
I mean, if I program the engine and put the stats together, I expect the AI and the guys who create it, use the knowledge they created themselves.

In almost every game vs the AI, i see him placing his archer in back, mostly bunched up and than shoot, while his melee is attacking.
He dont stop shooting, even if he outnumber me in a spot with melee. He kill more of his own units than rip of my mens!

The archer units should always do a range-check around the unit they shot at. If there are more than 1 own unit around in a circle of (example) 20, than the archer dont shot into it. Since we have the circles involved in the game, it should be pretty easy to get such a check in this game. Simple range-check and done!
The friendly fire in S2 is skyhigh, i never would shoot into my own units, unless i sent cheap units vs expensive and shoot on purpose.

The movement and the attacking is also very very weird. He send single units vs certain single units. So i see some ashis trying to attack one unit of my archer, ignoring anything.

Another very important factor is the moral support from your general. I would ensure, that at least low moral units (lets bring a cap of 5 as example) dont move out of this circle. Or at least make a max out-movement, maybe 50 more, so the general can run into range once a unit start wavering.

The AI seems not to consider any moral support, imo there should be a lot more rangechecks for melee units, i wouldnt send any melee unit solo somewhere unless:

1. its pretty high moral unit, lets say 10+
2. its a cav
3. 50% of the enemy units are routing


This are just examples, we have no idea how the real stats are looking, since CA want to keep it secret.

I just can take what i see and know and assume. Some things are obvious, i dont need to know certain things, to see, that the AI fails to use terrain advances or do some silly moves.

[Gregoshi]

Koc, how are you determining how many of your warriors are getting killed by friendly fire? Is there a log file somewhere like in STW?