Christianity

[Leptomeninges]

Anyone play a game where they switch to Christianity at an early stage of the game?

Just curious as to what your experience was regarding the pros and cons of the switch.

Thinking of playing a campaign where I become Christian at the earliest opportunity just to see how it changes things for me.

[Graphic]

I switched to Christian as Chosokabe as soon as I had the whole island. European cannons and matchlocks are devastating and fun to use. Nanban trade ships rule the seas (cannons). You get an extra trade slot in your home province from the Nanban Quarter.

Cons are: no warrior monks, everyone but Christians hate you.

A note: don't switch when your lands are all Buddhist unless you can afford the garrisons to ride out the storm. It seemed like unrest gets steadily higher until it peaks out at 50/50 Christian/Buddhist, then starts going back down. I was unprepared for it and it was a little frantic trying to keep my provinces in line.

[nafod]

Graphic got it right for the most part.

Pros
-Missionaries and higher level churches cause revolts and general chaos in buddhist held provinces
-Cannons (land and Sea)
-Additional trade value bonuses and trade routes from Nanban ports and quarter

Unnoticeable
-Early access to Matchlocks (fun but meh)
-Diplomatic penalty doesn't alter the game much in my experience

Con
-No warrior monks.
-Need to convert conquested provinces can slow down an advance.

[phred]

I switched during my last Chosokabe campaign after I had Shikoku and most of Kyushu.
I made sure that I had researched the tech that lets you build missions, and also made sure that I had some open building slots for a fast conversion.
Nanban trade ships are awesome. One ship can defeat most any AI fleet.
Seige cannon are very accurate.

[Zim]

I switched as a wholly Buddhist Hojo occupying the center of the island. I was consolidating and working on upgrading farms at the time, and just rode out the unrest. It peaks at about 6 or so to unrest, and most of my provinces could handle it without a lot of extra garrison troops. The few that couldn't were exempted from taxes for a year or two.

Hojo cannons and trade ships have been very fun to play with, as have the matchlocks. The diplomacy hit didn't hurt me much, although it did put more clans closer to the edge once the realm divide hit.

[Zarky]

I think having to convert all provinces you capture is a 2 way street. In my Shimazu campaign I didn't have to declare many wars because I had good missionaries. I captured Settsu (philosophical tradition coastal province next to Kyoto) as my last province before Realm Divide and build large church there. After preparing for RD for a long while, all my neighboring provinces aside from Kyoto were already mostly Christian.

I think the unrest from religion caps at around 7-8 and then lowers little by little until there's just some 10% wrong religion left. This is something to consider when converting later in game.

But Christian campaign was a very rewarding experience, though I should recreate it with more eastern clan at some point.

[Monk]

My next game will likely be a christian one to experiment with all the fancy toys. Watching the Black Ship rip apart entire armadas was so incredibly entertaining. You'd think it would get old, but nope! Boom! :laugh4:

Shimazu is probably the easiest way to go if you plan on it from the start (as opposed to a tactical choice mid-game). In all my games Kyushu becomes a hotbed of religious turmoil.. i think by 1560 some provinces are totally converted to Christianity, making conquering them as a buddhist incredibly slow work.

[The_Emperor]

My next game will likely be a christian one to experiment with all the fancy toys. Watching the Black Ship rip apart entire armadas was so incredibly entertaining. You'd think it would get old, but nope! Boom! :laugh4:

Shimazu is probably the easiest way to go if you plan on it from the start (as opposed to a tactical choice mid-game). In all my games Kyushu becomes a hotbed of religious turmoil.. i think by 1560 some provinces are totally converted to Christianity, making conquering them as a buddhist incredibly slow work.

The nanban port in Kyushu really does cause a lot of Christianity issues along with the Shoni converting.

I must admit I am tempted to do another campaign and do a conversion to really give the gunpowder units a run for their money.

[Zarky]

The nanban port in Kyushu really does cause a lot of Christianity issues along with the Shoni converting.

I must admit I am tempted to do another campaign and do a conversion to really give the gunpowder units a run for their money.

There's the 1 starting Nanban Trade Port in the eastern central of Kyushu and Shimazu start with the capability of building another Nanban Trade Port in Satsuma (haven't tested if you still can after capturing that 1 province). So you could even get 2 Nanban ports.

[The_Emperor]

There's the 1 starting Nanban Trade Port in the eastern central of Kyushu and Shimazu start with the capability of building another Nanban Trade Port in Satsuma (haven't tested if you still can after capturing that 1 province). So you could even get 2 Nanban ports.

indeed.

My first Shimazu campaign I started off as a fully Buddhist thing, so on my march northwards i burned the nanban port and church and then set about converting the populace to my bidding. I had some problems with a Christian uprising following an event where i had to choose to either kill a preacher or not.

Should be easiest to be Christian with them though, it is suggested at the start.

[Rahwana]

Con
-No warrior monks.
-Need to convert conquested provinces can slow down an advance.

warrior monks can be killed easily by spamming guns
just get a big sized garrison

and Shimazu is the easiest

[Monk]

warrior monks can be killed easily by spamming guns

And if that doesn't work.. use more gun. :grin2:

[nafod]

There's the 1 starting Nanban Trade Port in the eastern central of Kyushu and Shimazu start with the capability of building another Nanban Trade Port in Satsuma (haven't tested if you still can after capturing that 1 province). So you could even get 2 Nanban ports.

I tried that, and no you cannot build a nanban port once you acquire a province with one.

[nafod]

In case anyone was wondering I really don't see a reason not to convert unless you're playing as Uesugi.

[Zarky]

I tried that, and no you cannot build a nanban port once you acquire a province with one.

So the "smart" thing to do if you're going for Christian Shimazu is not capture that province until you've started building your own in Satsuma. Also I think you should build Nanban Quarter to that eastern central province because then the conversion bonus would affect 5/8 of Kyushu. Also better for naval recruitment, closer to action.

There are plenty of reasons not to convert, one being much easier campaign and second is that if you're like me, you're sick of guns after paying for ETW and NTW. Not cannons though, cannons are always cool.

[nafod]

So the "smart" thing to do if you're going for Christian Shimazu is not capture that province until you've started building your own in Satsuma. Also I think you should build Nanban Quarter to that eastern central province because then the conversion bonus would affect 5/8 of Kyushu. Also better for naval recruitment, closer to action.

There are plenty of reasons not to convert, one being much easier campaign and second is that if you're like me, you're sick of guns after paying for ETW and NTW. Not cannons though, cannons are always cool.

I'd agree, with there being plenty of reasons not to convert but, in my opinion the strengths of Christianity far outweigh the negatives. The most noticeable one being the inability to recruit warrior monks. I find the diplomatic penalty to be irrelevant in most cases.

[Rahwana]

There are plenty of reasons not to convert, one being much easier campaign and second is that if you're like me, you're sick of guns after paying for ETW and NTW. Not cannons though, cannons are always cool.

sick of guns? I never get sick of guns, especially when they are the most reliable troops in the field (ok, their morale isn't great, but getting tired micromanaging melee troops took the toll as well)

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

I would not convert,in the game sense really.

The Matchlock ashaguri are good ,but not that good,the friebombers are ok.

There are many ways to defeat the peasent matchlock,even the samurai matchlock are no good.

No,I would not do it.

[Monk]

I'd agree, with there being plenty of reasons not to convert but, in my opinion the strengths of Christianity far outweigh the negatives. The most noticeable one being the inability to recruit warrior monks. I find the diplomatic penalty to be irrelevant in most cases.

I haven't swapped to christianity, but i've found once you're rolling you can pretty much prevent people from declaring war on you - as long as you're willing to pay. Regular tribute's a good way to stay in the good graces of any faction and keep you hovering on "indifferent" and "friendly"

I imagine if you convert, you just gotta be more ontop of it.

[HopAlongBunny]

I might give it a try in present Chokosabe campaign.

For some reason I'm at -50 with all factions and RD hasn't even hit yet (I only have 6 provinces)
The religion modifier can't make it any worse.

[Leptomeninges]

I finally got around to playing my Shimazu/Christian/VH campaign.

I converted fairly early (~turn 20 or so?). I started building a Nanban Quarter in Satsuma and then conquered the rest of Kyushu including the Nanban Quarter in Bungo. (This works by the way. The first Nanban Quarter will complete if you have it queued and conquer another.) As I'd never converted previously, I hadn't really realized how strong the Nanban Quarter is compared with the Nanban Port and how much wealth they generate.

Although other posters commented on it, I was most struck by how Christianity slows down the pace of conquest. The need to garrison and convert newly captured provinces means that you can't roll over an enemy once you've broken their defensive crust and have them on their heels. Bear in mind that it's not just the religious unrest you have to deal with. On VH I picked up a two "dishonor" happiness penalty to my daimyo for converting. (Don't know if it's different on other difficulties.) This together with the religious unrest combined with possible new conquest unhappiness is no joke. It really brings an offensive push to a halt. I've even had to fight a few rebel armies in newly conquered territories which I've never done before. Kyushu wasn't too big a problem as the north was largely Christian already, but conquest on the Mori-dominated Western mainland has really slowed relative to previous games I've played.

This has actually made the game much more interesting as the slowed conquest lengthens the mid-game which in my opinion is the biggest weakness of Shogun 2. Perhaps the stronger Ikko Ikki DLC clan will achieve something similar by causing a "religion roadblock" in the middle of the map.

The other thing I've noticed is how tight money is. This is largely due to the fact that I used a lot of province tax exemptions to ride out the unrest. I've survived on trade income the last ~25 turns since conversion. Thank heavens I own the four Western nodes plus the iron node in the northeast. Probably it would have been better to build up more robust garrisons to maintain some taxation while converting.

Nanban trade ships are awesome and relatively low maintenance for their value. I haven't found many opportunities to use cannon yet.

I know there was a question in another thread about Chrisian missionaries and revolutions. So far my agents are causing revolutions like pros and with very high percentage success rates. I think my first attempt for a newly minted level 1 missionary was 55%. But I'll have to look more closely at that thread to see what was being asked and how my experience compares.

[knoddy]

question....

How do u convert, currently playing Mori, own like 5 or so provinces really want to convert but dont know how :S also i dont even have the option to build naban trade ports

[Quintus.JC]

question....

How do u convert, currently playing Mori, own like 5 or so provinces really want to convert but dont know how :S also i dont even have the option to build naban trade ports

You can convert religion by going to the manage clan bit with the family tree. You should be able to convert once you see the event message regarding Christianity; However, I don't think you are able to before you build a naban trade port first. Once you convert religion you may reverse the convertion only through the death of your Daimyo, so choose wisely.

[RedKnight]

Graphic got it right for the most part.
Pros
-Missionaries and higher level churches cause revolts and general chaos in buddhist held provinces
-Cannons (land and Sea)
-Additional trade value bonuses and trade routes from Nanban ports and quarter
Unnoticeable
-Early access to Matchlocks (fun but meh)
-Diplomatic penalty doesn't alter the game much in my experience
Con
-No warrior monks.
-Need to convert conquested provinces can slow down an advance.
I agree with all this except I think matchlocks are fairly worthless. Said another way, my bow samurai have them panicking by the time they can start shooting. Wouldn't it be real ugly to try to force-take a castle that has archers, with matchlocks? ... but it can be done easily if you have plenty of archers. Why wait to starve them out.

But matchlocks are fun to have in play. Ka-pow!

No one has mentioned how low your generals' loyalty plummets when you first switch... but that's probably because it doesn't seem to matter, at least at Hard level. It's very rare that an enemy metsuke tries to bribe anyone anywhere... and if you lose one general by the worst luck, well, you probably have 5 more, and will be offered another (your 6th) soon.

I don't like monks because they have too little armor (melee) and too few arrows (bow), so... shrug.

If you take your time and have some surplus garrison troops when starting to expand, plus have built up some high-level priests, the shock of conversion is greatly subdued. Put your bishops on the provinces that would otherwise need the most garrison (small fort and/or no happy buildings) and presto, they need 5 less troops. Also, start a feeder system where garrisons move from old (Christian-fied) provinces to new ones. Note that you can move out a unit if the religion dissatisfaction is decreasing; as long as it's 0 at the start of the next turn, it's ok if it's -1 at the end of this turn.