View Full Version : Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?
PanzerJaeger
05-10-2011, 18:52
Ok so I read this random article (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/27/world/europe/27sweden.html?pagewanted=1&_r=3&hp) on the internet about what a crappy country Sweden is, and I want to know if you think the country is the worst in Europe or just one of the worst?
When those jobs disappeared, Sweden stopped the flow of immigrant labor, but not the flow of refugees, many of whom clustered in Malmo and other former industrial centers. Jobs were still scarce, but housing was available, apartments built long ago for laborers.
In some of those apartment blocks, the unemployment rate among immigrants stands at 80 percent. Still, their children need schooling, and they have elderly parents who need health care. Some are damaged by the violence they have lived through. They suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder and drug and alcohol addictions.
Prof. Jan Ekberg, an economist at Linnaeus University, questions the policies that allowed so many refugees to settle far from jobs. “They are depending on the public sector now as never before,” he said. “That was a policy mistake.”
Rosengard hardly has the look of a troubled ghetto. Lawns and playgrounds abound. But the area does not look like traditional Sweden, either. Satellite dishes hang from every balcony. The bakery sells Middle Eastern confections. Al Jazeera plays on the televisions. And young men huddle on street corners casually bragging about doing battle with the police.
A few years ago, the fire and ambulance brigades would not even enter Rosengard without a police escort. Youths there threw rocks and set cars on fire. Police officials say things are much better now. Fires were down 40 percent last year compared with 2009. But last month, two police vehicles parked at the station were set on fire with small homemade explosives.
Wow, this scares me. What an awful place to be. With 80% unemployment, ghettos, and street battles with police - it sounds more like Libya than a proper European nation. I would not expect to see such problems in any civilized Western nation on this side of the millennium. The people there must be loons to let this continue. I'm glad I live in the United States where such things don't happen, and I can look down on word deletednations like Sweden from an assumed position of superiority.
Rhyfelwyr
05-10-2011, 19:01
I think the UK is worse, we seem to have the most vocal Islamists. And the political parties love them, they always send out groups like Unite Again Fascism to help with their protests.
Ok so I read this random article (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/27/world/europe/27sweden.html?pagewanted=1&_r=3&hp) on the internet about what a crappy country Sweden is, and I want to know if you think the country is the worst in Europe or just one of the worst?
Wow, this scares me. What an awful place to be. With 80% unemployment, ghettos, and street battles with police - it sounds more like Libya than a proper European nation. I would not expect to see such problems in any civilized Western nation on this side of the millennium. The people there must be loons to let this continue. I'm glad I live in the United States where such things don't happen, and I can look down on nations like Sweden from an assumed position of superiority.
I can't tell if you are trolling or you actually want to have a civil conversation. Can you clarify?
PanzerJaeger
05-10-2011, 19:11
I can't tell if you are trolling or you actually want to have a civil conversation. Can you clarify?
I thought all those problems belonged in some wacky borderline crazy third world nation, but given a whole internet article was devoted to them - it scares me to say the least.
Skullheadhq
05-10-2011, 19:13
Such is life in Europe I guess :<
protip: don't let the followers of Muhammed in, but you already knew that, right?
HoreTore
05-10-2011, 19:25
A very good candidate for "worst article ever".
I'll just adress one of the glaring errors in it: of course some of the blocks have 80% employment, and I bet there are several with 100%. Why? Because the husing policy is to cram those on welfare together. The three houses next to my ld job also had 100% unemployment among those living there, simply because they were all junkies and those are the houses the local government has made available for (not so) temporary housing.
Anyways. Rosengård created Zlatan. Sweden, along with the rest of the world, should be awed by the roaring success this proves Rosengård to be.
Sweden, where socisl mobility actually exists: one of the few places where the poor can actually make something of themselves through hard work, as opposed to places like america, where the poor stays poor and can only dream of bettering themselves.
I like. Thumbs up. ~:thumb:
HoreTore
05-10-2011, 19:36
Oh, and it should also be noted that Sweden has been under conservative rule for, what is it, 8 years now?
Ok so I read this random article (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/27/world/europe/27sweden.html?pagewanted=1&_r=3&hp) on the internet about what a crappy country Sweden is, and I want to know if you think the country is the worst in Europe or just one of the worst?
Wow, this scares me. What an awful place to be. With 80% unemployment, ghettos, and street battles with police - it sounds more like Libya than a proper European nation. I would not expect to see such problems in any civilized Western nation on this side of the millennium. The people there must be loons to let this continue. I'm glad I live in the United States where such things don't happen, and I can look down on nations like Sweden from an assumed position of superiority.
The standard of your posts seem to be degrading.
I think one of the main issues with Sweden is the comparison to how it used to be not long ago. Immigration has completely demolished "folkhemmet", a socialistic experiment that proved quite successful.
Now we have ghettos like Rosengård, Rinkeby, Södertälje - the list goes on.
Of course, the standard of life in Sweden is still better than USA as you somehow deem superior, but then, you do not always come of as well read up on the topics discussed.
Long story short, yes, we do indeed have huge immigration problems in Sweden. But it is still nothing compared to, say, France or Malta.
I would not say it is the worst, or even one of the worst by far. Might however become if we continue this unhindered mass immigration. We might get a new Yugoslavia on our hands.
Ironside
05-10-2011, 19:45
I thought all those problems belonged in some wacky borderline crazy third world nation, but given a whole internet article was devoted to them - it scares me to say the least.
I think he refers to US ghetto's? There's two areas in Sweden that's nationally known to be severe immigrant ghetto's. They aren't exactly pretty, but not representative for the entire country.
Interesting choise in the article. The number of Poles outnumber both Palestinians and Somalis and the average employment in Rosengård is 38%.
Formulation of first post hints that you intend to make point about criticism (presumably) against US though?
HoreTore
05-10-2011, 19:48
The answer is social building.
Living in troubled areas makes for a troubled life, simply because you are affected by those around you. Sweden, like Norway, built a shedload of blocks in the 60's to solve the housing crisis for those of the working class and below. This effectively solved a major short-term problem, but it created a bad long term problem, because it also concentrated social problems resulting from poverty in one area.
The answer is to spread both the poor, working class and middle class all over the place. That will avoid concentration of social problems, and stop the spiral. It might help combat racism as well, as the racists living in "100% white neighborhoods" like frags would say will be forced to intact with immigrants and discover that they're normal people too.
a completely inoffensive name
05-10-2011, 19:50
Psssh, the teen pregnancy rate in the US makes us look more like a 3rd world country than their unemployment.
Skullheadhq
05-10-2011, 19:53
Psssh, the teen pregnancy rate in the US makes us look more like a 3rd world country than their unemployment.
Why so self-hating?
a completely inoffensive name
05-10-2011, 20:09
Why so self-hating?
I guess my secular humanist morals are so high I put the well being of others before my pride.
Skullheadhq
05-10-2011, 20:14
I guess my secular humanist morals are so high I put the well being of others before my pride.
Is the backroom becoming one big thread?
a completely inoffensive name
05-10-2011, 20:21
Is the backroom becoming one big thread?
Not unless we all hold hands.
Seamus Fermanagh
05-10-2011, 20:34
....is that a faint chorus of "Koombayah" I hear?
PanzerJaeger
05-10-2011, 20:38
Of course, the standard of life in Sweden is still better than USA as you somehow deem superior, but then, you do not always come of as well read up on the topics discussed.
Ouch! It's not so fun when someone is casting aspertions against your country is it?
Anyway, are you sure about that? The HDI says different.
a completely inoffensive name
05-10-2011, 20:40
Ouch! It's not so fun when someone is casting aspertions against your country is it?
Anyway, are you sure about that? The HDI says different.
Omg, the US jumped up nine spots from 2009.
Obamacare has worked. Thank you PJ for providing the evidence.
Skullheadhq
05-10-2011, 20:41
Omg, the US jumped up nine spots from 2009.
Obamacare has worked. Thank you PJ for providing the evidence.
Congratulations on now paying for the lazy! At least you rose 9 spots.
gaelic cowboy
05-10-2011, 20:43
Ouch! It's not so fun when someone is casting aspertions against your country is it?
Anyway, are you sure about that? The HDI says different.
Is that not what you did with the thread in the first place
Ah well it's Sweden, the ultimate thought-police state
a completely inoffensive name
05-10-2011, 20:51
Congratulations on now paying for the lazy! At least you rose 9 spots.
Thank you. It would have been immoral otherwise.
HoreTore
05-10-2011, 21:00
Ouch! It's not so fun when someone is casting aspertions against your country is it?
Anyway, are you sure about that? The HDI says different.
....where, exactly, have somebpdy been "casting assertions"? The only thread I can think of stayed with amerrica fpr like 5 seconds before, in backroom tradition, onto something else, in this case general morals of religious and non-religious people...
And damn, how did I miss the point of this thread.... I'm ashamed of myself.
Ouch! It's not so fun when someone is casting aspertions against your country is it?
Anyway, are you sure about that? The HDI says different.
As to your first point, you might have noticed that I did not argue against your point, just the parts of your argument that seemed less educated. I do not let national pride get in the way of accepting troublesome issues in my country. So your main agenda kind of backfired, would you not say?
About your second point, yes I am sure.
Major Robert Dump
05-10-2011, 21:07
I approve of teen pregnancy, and think it in no way is indicative of a country's livability. In fact, I would say it improves a a country's livability if anything.
Strike For The South
05-10-2011, 21:12
I approve of teen pregnancy, and think it in no way is indicative of a country's livability. In fact, I would say it improves a a country's livability if anything.
Well of course, infants have the most teeth in Oklahoma
As per the article, I agree with PJ, taking on more people when their are no jobs is pretty stupid esp considering the dynamic between Somlia and Sweden is so very different than the one between say America and MExico
Major Robert Dump
05-10-2011, 21:35
Well of course, infants have the most teeth in Oklahoma
As per the article, I agree with PJ, taking on more people when their are no jobs is pretty stupid esp considering the dynamic between Somlia and Sweden is so very different than the one between say America and MExico
NOT METH BABIES (snare drum)
PanzerJaeger
05-10-2011, 21:46
About your second point, yes I am sure.
On what do you base that on? I can't seem to find any objective measurement that puts Sweden on top.
a completely inoffensive name
05-10-2011, 21:53
On what do you base that on? I can't seem to find any objective measurement that puts Sweden on top.
Usually PJ, it is polite to respond "You are welcome." when someone thanks you. :(
Louis VI the Fat
05-10-2011, 22:06
Ok so I read this random article (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/27/world/europe/27sweden.html?pagewanted=1&_r=3&hp) on the internet about what a crappy country Sweden is, and I want to know if you think the country is the worst in Europe or just one of the worst?I couldn't agree more with all of your points. There is too much anti-US reflexes and misplaced Euro-arrogance.
I won't adress the off-topic talk about Sweden.
On what do you base that on? I can't seem to find any objective measurement that puts Sweden on top.
Oh, I did what you did and did a half a second google search, only that contrary to you I took the time to actually read the whole (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index#Inequality-adjusted_HDI) wiki page, instead of just skimming it and stop reading when I found something I thought proved my point.
Yes, the USA is doing ok - national debt to thanks. How much is it now - 45k a head?
However, the average citizen in Sweden is doing better than the average citizen in the states, as USA is more pyramid shaped economically. A few people do very VERY good, while the majority suffers. In Sweden it is more evened out.
Strike For The South
05-10-2011, 22:24
Your country is declaring a national emergency becuase of a few brown people
So yes USA>Sweeden
Europe has long been the most violent and intolerant continent on the planet, no other place has so much blood been spilled over such petty differences.
I can't wait until the populist right really gets going and yall descend into those once a generation geoncides you seem so fond of
Granpappy freed the jews, Pop the anti communists, and I'll free the various shades of brown people that dared step foot on Euro soil
The holidays will become such a pissing contest
Your country is declaring a national emergency becuase of a few brown people
Just one of the suburbs of Stockholm accepted more Iraqi refugees than all of the USA combined. So no, not just "a few brown people".
So yes USA>Sweeden
That was your sole way of deciding what country trumps another? You clearly put a lot of thought into this.
Europe has long been the most violent and intolerant continent on the planet, no other place has so much blood been spilled over such petty differences.
Sweden has not been at war since 1814, a record broken helping to clear up the US mess in Afghanistan. When did the USA last have a decade without war?
What was your point again?
I can't wait until the populist right really gets going and yall descend into those once a generation geoncides you seem so fond of
Because Europe is one country and we all speak French? You can do better than that, even as a troll post it was mediocre at best.
Granpappy freed the jews, Pop the anti communists, and I'll free the various shades of brown people that dared step foot on Euro soil
Now you just lost me.
The holidays will become such a pissing contest
Do not bring a knife to a gun fight.
Strike For The South
05-10-2011, 23:12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1KSaUEu_T4
Europe can only stand brown people when they come beaten, broken, and downtrodden
After that they demonize and kill just like the rest of their minorities
Such a creepy lot
Louis VI the Fat
05-10-2011, 23:21
Come on, Strikey, now don't get too carried away. ~:grouphug:
Hosakawa Tito
05-10-2011, 23:22
Americans are from Mars, Europeans are from Venus.
HoreTore
05-10-2011, 23:27
Behold the true power and glory of Sweden!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl0oHZg1ovI
Lætt! Barneskirænn!
SFTS, what answer to that do you expect?
In thread after thread I have participated in you have come in and written absolute nonsense. It is not witty, not stirring, not humorous. It is just pointless and bland. What is your aim here? Boring me and the other forum readers to death?
Try and read up - once in a while stand for something. From what I have seen you are glad to attack others, but you seem ill at ease with showing an actual opinion of your own.
I would not even mind if you stood for nothing and just attacked others, as long as you would bring something to the table but bland boring nonsense.
Edit: HoreTore, I would say civilized nations use ice skates, but our last show off was just.. I do not even want to think about it.
Strike For The South
05-10-2011, 23:32
SFTS, what answer to that do you expect?
Nothing constructive
In thread after thread I have participated in you have come in and written absolute nonsense. It is not witty, not stirring, not humorous. It is just pointless and bland. What is your aim here? Boring me and the other forum readers to death?
A boy can dream, can't he?
Try and read up - once in a while stand for something. From what I have seen you are glad to attack others, but you seem ill at ease with showing an actual opinion of your own.
I have about 6,000 posts on this site that fit the bill
I would not even mind if you stood for nothing and just attacked others, as long as you would bring something to the table but bland boring nonsense.
The same could be said here, this forum has tailspinned into worthless punditry. I am simply acclerating the trend
a completely inoffensive name
05-10-2011, 23:34
The same could be said here, this forum has tailspinned into worthless punditry. I am simply acclerating the trend
I approve.
EDIT: Also, more Swedish chef in your posts from now on.
Rhyfelwyr
05-11-2011, 00:20
Things are getting a bit crazy in this forum of late. Scandinavians seem to be insanely anti-American. Americans seem to be responding with some strange new strain of anti-Europeanism, with the whole "genocide a generation" thing. Eh, slight double standard there, there's a reason you aren't called Thunder Buffalo.
The overreactions on the part of Strike are no different from the supposed overreactions in response to "brown people". I mean... far-right parties enjoy a very minor revival over a period of a few decades... so suddenly we're all about to send brown people to the gas chambers and Americans will need to step in to save them like grandaddy did with the Jews. Eh... OK.
Stop acting like children. You all need to write sensible,well-balaned, and non-offensive posts, like I always do. :smug:
PanzerJaeger
05-11-2011, 01:14
Usually PJ, it is polite to respond "You are welcome." when someone thanks you. :(
I will not say your welcome for the backhanded thank you, but I will say that I'm impressed you connected those dots. ~:)
I couldn't agree more with all of your points. There is too much anti-US reflexes and misplaced Euro-arrogance.
I won't adress the off-topic talk about Sweden.
As of late, you seem to get where I'm coming from more than anybody else on this forum. I don't know what this means, but I don't like it. :beam:
Oh, I did what you did and did a half a second google search, only that contrary to you I took the time to actually read the whole wiki page, instead of just skimming it and stop reading when I found something I thought proved my point.
Note that I said objective. Take another minute and read up on the IHDI, which is an experimental index based on subjective surveys from multiple sources, many of which, including those of the US and Sweden, are several years apart, that will be changed and revised in the future.
I think one of the main reasons as to the anti-Americanism feeling as of late is not because of what the US does, but about how the US portray itself.
Arabs celebrating they got a slam in on the US - terrorists who should die because of their freedom hating ways.
Americans celebrating they got a slam in on some Arab - freedom lovers showing rightful national pride.
I think a lot of the US bashing would go away if the national "feel" of the US was not claiming some kind of moral freedom loving superiority. If the US went out there and said - we will bomb, torture and put a world of physical and emotional hurt on anyone standing in the way of our national well being - I could respect that.
Do not get me wrong, I would still not like it, but I would be less prone to poke the hornets nest.
Let us flip the coin:
In X years, China would send an assassination team to take out George W. Bush for his crimes against humanity (having started not one but two ill advised wars and having directly ordered bombings of civilians as commander in chief). They would do this in the name of freedom, of being world cops, universal good guys.
I would be as much against that as I am now. Does that make me anti-American?
Edit: PJ I just can not be bothered with you to be honest. Your posts have a tendency to come off as semi-intellectual or hastened together at best. Your OP as an example.
Louis VI the Fat
05-11-2011, 01:56
As of late, you seem to get where I'm coming from more than anybody else on this forum. I don't know what this means, but I don't like it. :beam:It means that I've turned nazi or you've turned effeminate anti-capitalist statist.
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/images/smilies/lookaround.gif
PanzerJaeger
05-11-2011, 02:27
Edit: PJ I just can not be bothered with you to be honest. Your posts have a tendency to come off as semi-intellectual or hastened together at best. Your OP as an example.
You're right. The OP is semi-intellectual at best. I wouldn't even go that far.
Of course, considering that it was modeled directly off of your OP in another thread, including your own phraseology, that criticism takes on a bit of a different connotation.
The fact that the thread developed into a rather healthy discussion about immigrant problems in Sweden does make me smile though.
In all seriousness, there's no need for the personal attacks. I was just having a bit of fun with what seemed to be a very loaded OP in your thread. "Americans: Are they all crazy or just some of them?" ~;)
It means that I've turned nazi or you've turned effeminate anti-capitalist statist.
One could make the argument that they are one in the same. :beam:
Well, there are some differences in our OPs. First of all, I did not direct my post to a nation at large, but to a (what I thought would be) small or minuscule part of that nation. I did by no means claim all Americans are crazy, I happen to have quite some friends over there who are not (then again, some who are, but in good ways).
So, you can not try to equal me questioning the sanity in having religion interfere with politics - with you claiming Sweden would be Europe's worst nation because we have ghettos.
I couldn't agree more with all of your points. There is too much anti-US reflexes and misplaced Euro-arrogance.
my boy!
And Sweden is the worst because the only answer to the problem is making the problem bigger. In Sweden multiculturalism is still the state religion and like all religious society's the social control is suffocating, there can be no dissent where political correctness reigns
Kagemusha
05-12-2011, 13:37
Well the largest immigrant population of Sweden are Finnish. No doubt they are living in Ghetto´s and burning down entire cities, with the horrible prizes systembolaget has these days.:laugh4:
Arthur, king of the Britons
05-12-2011, 15:50
Well the largest immigrant population of Sweden are Finnish. No doubt they are living in Ghetto´s and burning down entire cities, with the horrible prizes systembolaget has these days.:laugh4:
:laugh4:
Skullheadhq
05-12-2011, 16:39
Someone once told me Finnish have Mongolic ancestry and, in fact, are not white. Is there a Fin to confirm this?
Louis VI the Fat
05-12-2011, 16:50
No need for Fins to confirm that.
Those Sant Claus wannabees are a miscegenated crossbreed of Lapps, Eskimos and reindeer, and can fart fire to clear an open space in the snow to sleep.
Someone once told me Finnish are have Mongolic ancestry and, in fact, are not white. Is there a Fin to confirm this?
We call it 'Lapland', it's in the north of Scandinavia, yeah that's true. They are just a 'tribe' that live up north though, mostly in Finland
Kagemusha
05-12-2011, 18:46
Someone once told me Finnish are have Mongolic ancestry and, in fact, are not white. Is there a Fin to confirm this?
If you mean by white, blue eyes and blonde hair?
There you go:
https://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6438/blondmapeurope.th.jpg (https://img20.imageshack.us/i/blondmapeurope.jpg/)
And here:
https://img856.imageshack.us/img856/6388/blueeyesmap2.th.jpg (https://img856.imageshack.us/i/blueeyesmap2.jpg/)
Had our ancestors had better immigration policies, some Indo...wannabe Europeans wouldnt be asking such questions right now!:antlers:
Crazed Rabbit
05-12-2011, 19:08
Mr. Miri, a rapper who has started a nonprofit agency to encourage multiculturalism, says he loves Sweden and is grateful he was taken in. But, he says, the Swedes have not gone far enough in accepting immigrants. “O.K., they’ve opened up the first door.” he said. “But I want doors four, five and six. I want to be able to become president.”
I'm curious what exactly Sweden is supposed to do. Taking people in and paying for everything isn't enough? Aren't immigrants expected to go out and advance themselves? How much are they supposed to have handed to them?
CR
Cute Wolf
05-12-2011, 19:45
eugenics anyone?
HoreTore
05-12-2011, 19:49
Someone once told me Finnish are have Mongolic ancestry and, in fact, are not white. Is there a Fin to confirm this?
Sure you don't mean the Sami? While uncertain, the most qualified guesses on the origins suggest somewhere around eastern russia....
We call it 'Lapland', it's in the north of Scandinavia, yeah that's true. They are just a 'tribe' that live up north though, mostly in Finland
"Lapland" is a current county in Sweden, but used in a general historical sense, it's the home of the Sami.
Crazed Rabbit
05-12-2011, 19:51
eugenics anyone?
:stare:
No thank you.
CR
Kagemusha
05-12-2011, 20:20
Sure you don't mean the Sami? While uncertain, the most qualified guesses on the origins suggest somewhere around eastern russia....
"Lapland" is a current county in Sweden, but used in a general historical sense, it's the home of the Sami.
Lappi is also the northernmost county of Finland. Your genetic history might be bit rusty.According to latest studies the oldest European mtDNA U5 can be found in highest frequencies among the Finnish, Saami and Estonian populations. U5 mtDNA´s age ranges from 50 000 to 60 500 years, so it predates agriculture in Europe. Still it can be found in low frequencies all over Europe.U5 has been found in human remains dating from the Mesolithic in England, Germany, Lithuania, Poland, Portugal and Russia.
It is quite yesterday´s research to think anything that is not Indoeuropean not being European.
Tellos Athenaios
05-12-2011, 22:59
"Lapland" is a current county in Sweden, but used in a general historical sense, it's the home of the Sami.
In Dutch it is understood as the land of the Sami whom we call Lappen. (Depending on what the “Lap” bit means, either Lappen in Dutch means “people from Lapland”, or vice versa Lapland means “land of the Lappen”.)
a completely inoffensive name
05-12-2011, 23:07
eugenics anyone?
People still believe in that crap?
HoreTore
05-12-2011, 23:42
Your genetic history might be bit rusty.
That might very well be.
Anyway, this is interesting. It has been my understanding that the Sami and Finns are seperated as having two different origins. I thought the Finns and Balts had a shared (european)origin, while the Sami had a different one, which we haven't found out yet.
Has it now been determined that Finns and Sami(and balts?) have the same origin? Did they arrive in the north around the same time, or are we talking two(or more) different migrations? If you have some good in-depth articles at hand they would be very much appriciated. I've always been very curious about the pre-modern(before conttact with written and oral Norweigan society) Sami history...
People still believe in that crap?
Oh boy. Was practised in Scandinavia until 1996. Forced until mid eighties if the mother would be a risk to social bliss. Scandinavia is kinda scary didn't you know
a completely inoffensive name
05-13-2011, 00:16
Oh boy. Was practised in Scandinavia until 1996. Forced until mid eighties if the mother would be a risk to social bliss. Scandinavia is scary didn't you know
Yeah, I'm having a hard believing that Scandinavian society went from Eugenics in the mid 90s to having too many immigrants receiving handouts 15 years later.
Or were they trying to breed their own traits out?
Seamus Fermanagh
05-13-2011, 00:21
...Do not bring a knife to a gun fight.
Unless it's CODMW2, in which case the knife is better.
Yeah, I'm having a hard believing that Scandinavian society went from Eugenics in the mid 90s to having too many immigrants receiving handouts 15 years later.
Or were they trying to breed their own traits out?
Why ask me, ask them. But women with non-northic features were systematically denied having kids, Cut et bye
Paltmull
05-13-2011, 00:33
Oh boy. Was practised in Scandinavia until 1996. Forced until mid eighties if the mother would be a risk to social bliss. Scandinavia is kinda scary didn't you know
The Swedish eugenics program lasted until 1975, I believe. Not exactly something to be proud of. What Scandinavian country practised it as late as 1996?
The Swedish eugenics program lasted until 1975, I believe. Not exactly something to be proud of. What Scandinavian country practised it as late as 1996?
Well Sweden. And it lasted till 1986, was quite the media outrage over that. Or maybe not. Untill the late nineties it was still 'encouraged'.
Paltmull
05-13-2011, 01:22
Well Sweden. And it lasted till 1986, was quite the media outrage over that. Or maybe not. Untill the late nineties it was still 'encouraged'.
Nope. Forced sterilization was banned in Sweden 1976. I doubt it was encouraged until the late nineties, since most people didn't know much about it then. The subject was relatively unknown until a series of articles about Swedish eugenics was published in the Swedish newspaper 'Dagens Nyheter' in 1997.
Louis VI the Fat
05-13-2011, 01:46
Meh. Eugenics is the civilised means to protect the mentally ill from a life of want, from a natural, protracted eredication of their genes over a few hapless generations. Better to prevent offspring and spend the money on providing for a happy life for the afflicted.
Hey, don't look at me funny. It is common practise in just about the entire developed world to prevent people with severe mental handicaps from procreating.
I disagree. I think the deviants, the imbeciles, the savants, are not just an enrichment but also nature's tossing of the dice. Even if most are useless to themselves and to others. But for every ten dead ends, one exciting new prospect is opened. Ages ago, an ape was born with a ridiculously flexible vocal chords, and he married a woman with a brain disease which resulted in a painfully enlarged lobe behind her ears etc
Nope. Forced sterilization was banned in Sweden 1976. I doubt it was encouraged until the late nineties, since most people didn't know much about it then. The subject was relatively unknown until a series of articles about Swedish eugenics was published in the Swedish newspaper 'Dagens Nyheter' in 1997.
There's the thing it didn't stop in 76, there have been steraliztions after that. It just continued.
@Louis they were after racial purity first you sure you want to defend it.
Ironside
05-13-2011, 10:25
Well Sweden. And it lasted till 1986, was quite the media outrage over that. Or maybe not. Untill the late nineties it was still 'encouraged'.
You're needing to dig up sources on that. The only thing I can find after 1976 is about forced sterilizations during a sex change.
You're needing to dig up sources on that. The only thing I can find after 1976 is about forced sterilizations during a sex change.
Been trying. I am absolutely certain of what I read, was last year and it supposedly caused quite the stir, but can't find anything. For now disregard claim
Paltmull
05-13-2011, 12:48
There's the thing it didn't stop in 76, there have been steraliztions after that. It just continued.
I've done some research, and as Ironside said the only forced sterilizations after 1975 (not 76 it seems) were made in combination with sex-change. And it seems that sterilization is still a requirement if you want to go through a sex change today. Other sterilizations may of course have been made after 75, but they weren't forced.
Here's the Sterilization law from 1975 (in Swedish. Don't know how well Google translates such advanced texts):
http://62.95.69.15/cgi-bin/thw?%24{HTML}=sfst_lst&%24{OOHTML}=sfst_dok&%24{SNHTML}=sfst_err&%24{BASE}=SFST&%24{TRIPSHOW}=format%3DTHW&BET=1975%3A580%24
The late nineties thing you're thinking of might be the inquiry that was made in 1997, that investigated the number of people who had gone through forced sterilization, and how those people should be compensated. The results were presented in 1999 (SOU 1999:2)
Sweden messed up? Definitly.
Come on, they use a piece of sandpaper as a map in Sahara, while carrying a car door. Apparently if it gets too hot, they just open the window for some refreshing breeze.
:dizzy2:
I've done some research, and as Ironside said the only forced sterilizations after 1975 (not 76 it seems) were made in combination with sex-change. And it seems that sterilization is still a requirement if you want to go through a sex change today. Other sterilizations may of course have been made after 75, but they weren't forced.
Here's the Sterilization law from 1975 (in Swedish. Don't know how well Google translates such advanced texts):
http://62.95.69.15/cgi-bin/thw?%24{HTML}=sfst_lst&%24{OOHTML}=sfst_dok&%24{SNHTML}=sfst_err&%24{BASE}=SFST&%24{TRIPSHOW}=format%3DTHW&BET=1975%3A580%24
The late nineties thing you're thinking of might be the inquiry that was made in 1997, that investigated the number of people who had gone through forced sterilization, and how those people should be compensated. The results were presented in 1999 (SOU 1999:2)
nono, it was a year ago or so. But since I cant back it up I retract claim
Paltmull
05-13-2011, 14:11
Sweden messed up? Definitly.
Come on, they use a piece of sandpaper as a map in Sahara, while carrying a car door. Apparently if it gets too hot, they just open the window for some refreshing breeze.
:dizzy2:
I've heard that Norwegians don't close the door when they go to the bathroom, to avoid that someone looks through the keyhole.
I am surprised you could read this thread with all the Tipp-Ex on your screen.
Hey wait, does this mean jokes about Norwegians actually exist in Sweden? That would certainly be an amusing discovery. ~D
Paltmull
05-13-2011, 16:09
Hey wait, does this mean jokes about Norwegians actually exist in Sweden? That would certainly be an amusing discovery. ~D
Used to at least; but you guys are no fun to make jokes about anymore with your oil, good economy and bloody Petter Northug. :(
HoreTore
05-13-2011, 22:37
Don't worry, we still have plenty of food and beer you can serve us, as well as bananas to peel ~;)
Get to it!!
Louis VI the Fat
05-13-2011, 22:43
My ex girlfriend told me Norwegian men are much bigger in the pants than Swedes. Is this true?
@Louis they were after racial purity first you sure you want to defend it.I'm trying to make you feel uneasy about eugenics.
How about you Fragony - would you rather have:
a) Indiscriminate immigration. Entire Moroccan villages dumping their undesirables onto Fragonyland.
b) Intelligence qualifications 'Skilled immigrants'
HoreTore
05-13-2011, 22:56
My ex girlfriend told me Norwegian men are much bigger in the pants than Swedes. Is this true?
I would spoil the fun for you if I just told you the answer, wouldn't I?
Paltmull
05-13-2011, 23:58
Norway's good economy have caused some problems though, since everyone bring ladders to the stores because of the high prices.
Ok so I read this random article (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/27/world/europe/27sweden.html?pagewanted=1&_r=3&hp) on the internet about what a crappy country Sweden is, and I want to know if you think the country is the worst in Europe or just one of the worst?
Yes, because a few ghettos make the whole country bad? The worst in europe? Wait, how did you manage to find this article without watching around 30k more on other countries?
Wow, this scares me. What an awful place to be. With 80% unemployment, ghettos, and street battles with police - it sounds more like Libya than a proper European nation. I would not expect to see such problems in any civilized Western nation on this side of the millennium. The people there must be loons to let this continue. I'm glad I live in the United States where such things don't happen, and I can look down on word deletednations like Sweden from an assumed position of superiority.
Ho ho ho! Jolly be the fools! Excuse me? Awful place to live? Nah, nah. You know what is an awful place to live? Central America. Yes, us (not me, I'm caucasian with a tan) brown people from here have a hell of a living (well, except Costa Rica and Panama). For instance, here in El Salvador, you get 13 murders A DAY. That's right, 13 people murdered a day. Around 100 mugged per day and possibly thousands that are blackmailed.
But hey, let's forget that the intolerant and sectarian people of ye olde US of A were the prime responsibles of this little mess. Oh? You didn't know? Violent street gangs in Central America originated in USA. Oh right, I think you forgot that part. Yes, latin people were being discriminated so they formed their little groups to unite with each other, not be alone. Then violence happened. Yeah, let's forget that in LA, the largest gang in Central America was formed; on the 18th St. of LA.
Since we are forgetting that. Let us be reminded of the 1990's. The largest crime wave of the USA in a long time.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/Propertycrime-us.svg/1000px-Propertycrime-us.svg.png
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/06/US_Violent_Crime_Rate.jpg
It had the police departments desperate and homicide rates peaked in 1990 and 1991.
However, since then, I take they have faded down.
Now, let's look at Sweden shall we?
From Wikipedia:
Of the crimes reported to the authorities in 2003, 53% were theft-related, 13% were contact crimes, 12% were vandalism and destruction, 6% were traffic crimes (not including minor incidents), 5% were fraud-related and 3% were narcotics-related.
Many crimes go unreported. According to studies, only 22% of those affected by violence reported the offence to the authorities, and about 50% of those affected by vandalism. Some increases in the statistics are attributed to a higher level of reporting.
In 2009, there were a total of 232 reported homicides to the Swedish police. Of those 232 homicides there were 93 deaths due to manslaughter, assault or murder 18 deaths were of uncertain origin, 7 deaths occurred abroad, 5 were still under investigation early 2010. The factual number of homicides amounted to 93 year 2009 whereas the average factual number was 94.25 in the years 2002 to 2009. This gives a rate of approximately 1 homocide per 100,000 inhabitants
In a 1996 research study of 11 industrial countries, 24% of Swedes themselves stated they had been affected by a criminal act (the average rate of all countries surveyed). Sweden, in addition to Switzerland and the Netherlands, was distinguished by a high rate of petty crimes, such as bicycle theft. Assaults and threats are common; Sweden ranked third of the countries surveyed. The risk of getting mugged, however, is low—0.5% of Swedes surveyed reported to have been mugged.
Huh. 1 in 100,000? Seems pretty good to me. 0.5% being mugged? Heck, I was almost mugged once in broad daylight. Seems pretty good to me.
Now let's look at what Wikipedia has to say about the US.
Overall, the national crime rate was 3977 crimes per 100,000 residents.
It is quite common for crime in American cities to be highly concentrated in a few, often economically disadvantaged areas. For example, San Mateo County, California had a population of approximately 707,000 and 17 homicides in 2001. 6 of these 17 homicides took place in poor, largely Black and Hispanic East Palo Alto, which had a population of roughly 30,000. So, while East Palo Alto accounted for a mere 4.2% of the population, about one-third of the homicides took place there. According to the FBI, in 2008 14,180 people were murdered in America.
The year 2005 was overall the safest year in the past thirty years. The recent overall decrease has reflected upon all significant types of crime, with all violent and property crimes having decreased and reached an all-time low. The homicide rate in particular has decreased over 42% between its record high point in 1991 and 2005.
Recently, however, the homicide rate has stagnated. While the homicide rate decreased continuously between 1991 and 2000 from 9.8 homicides per 100,000 persons to 5.5 per 100,000, it has remained level through 2005.
The US homicide rate, which has declined substantially since 1991, is still among the highest in the industrialized world. There were 17,034 murders in the United States in 2006 (666,160 murders from 1960 to 1996). In 2004, there were 5.5 homicides for every 100,000 persons, roughly three times as high as Canada (1.9) and six times as high as Germany (0.9). A closer look at The National Archive of Criminal Justice Data indicates that per-capita homicide rates over the last 30 years on average of major cities, New Orleans' average per capita homicide rate of 52 murders per 100,000 people overall (1980–2009) ranks highest among major U.S. cities Most industrialized countries had homicide rates below the 2.5 mark.
Pretty much self-explanatory? At least sweden has only a few ghettos. Seems by the statistics it's pretty calm.
Now, you may say "Oh but that's from Wikipedia" or "Statistics don't show the real problem".
Well kind sir. I would ask you to go to downtown LA at night, all night. And if you were to tell me that you were not threatened, mugged, saw a dead body, saw a man killing someone, knifed or shots. Well then I will believe you that USA is better to live in that Sweden. That is, if you manage to live long enough to tell me that.
Life in industrialized european countries is better than in USA? Proposterous.
Side note: I'm not saying Sweden is the best country in the world. Just saying that his statements were a fabrication based on pompous and self-patriotic-righteousness.
My country sucks, but I admit it.
Guess no one feels his own breathstink if it's coming from oneself
~Jirisys ()
I've heard that Norwegians don't close the door when they go to the bathroom, to avoid that someone looks through the keyhole.
I am surprised you could read this thread with all the Tipp-Ex on your screen.
Norway's good economy have caused some problems though, since everyone bring ladders to the stores because of the high prices.
~:thumb:
Kagemusha
05-16-2011, 16:12
I heard that today the Swedish wikipedia entry for silver was changed into: "What you will get, if you face Finland in Hockey World Championships final.":smug2:
Ironside
05-16-2011, 19:16
I heard that today the Swedish wikipedia entry for silver was changed into: "What you will get, if you face Finland in Hockey World Championships final.":smug2:
Congratulations, you won against the team that lost against Norway.
Kagemusha
05-16-2011, 19:29
Congratulations, you won against the team that lost against Norway.
Yes. That was another historical thing achieved by Sweden. First loss to team Norway on your history and the biggest numerical loss anyone have ever suffered in the final game of the Hockey WC. Well its not like we havent suffered in the hands of dear arch enemy, tre kronor, so lets just call this a small payback. ;)
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