Anybody enjoying Game of Thrones? (HBO TV series) [Archive] - Page 2

econ21

07-19-2011, 01:51

Just finished the second book - it seemed rather slow going at first, so I was reading only a chapter a day (and the chapters are many and short). But towards the end, it had really heated up, so I devoured the last third in an afternoon. I won't give any spoilers outside of the tags, but I was curious who would replace Ned as the heart of the story - at least in the TV series, he was the focal point for me. In the second book, it was Tyrion who became the central figure imo, which was a rather uncomfortable switch given his opposed allegiances to Ned's. However, he is a very well written character and Peter Dinklage probably has imbued him with even more charm (the Tyrion in the book is supposed to be ugly, whereas Dinklage is rather sweet).

Tyrion in the second book also occupies a similar geographic and functional position as Ned in the first book - a besieged King's Hand in the capitol of the Kingdom.

johnhughthom

07-19-2011, 01:55

I've never really understood the need for a central character, and I never saw Ned Stark as central to the first book anyway. To me he was just somebody caught up in a world he helped create, but didn't understand. Finding out more about Tyrion was what kept me reading A Game of Thrones, without him I probably wouldn't have bothered reading the second book, never mind the entire series.

Centurion1

07-19-2011, 20:21

It surprises me as well with the uproar about ned stark dying. His importance to the story is minimal at best.

Been reading ADWD one day and 200 pages read.

TinCow

07-19-2011, 20:50

I finished up ADWD last night. Loved it.

Also, I'm pretty sure GRRM just set a record for "most cliffhangers to end a series installment with".

Do not read unless you have finished the book! You've been warned!
Overall, the book was superb. It really moved the plot, particularly in the North where things advanced at blazing speed. Also, it's great to have Tyrion back for for the first time in, what, 8 years? A few major complaints though:

1) I actually got a bit annoyed with the number of cliffhangers he gave, as pretty much all of them strike me as fake. First we had the fake deaths of Tyrion, Davos, Asha, and Danaerys in the middle of the book (did anyone believe any of those?), and at the end he tosses in John Snow and Stannis. After four fake-out deaths in the middle of the book, I don't think the two at the end are remotely believable. Stannis is alive and it's just a fake-out by Bolton who's already lost Winterfell, while John actually is 'dead' but there's conveniently a Red Priest about 5 feet away from him and we've seen a certain Red Priest be rather handy with fixing dead people many times before. All of these 'cliffhangers' seemed a lot more contrived to me, specifically designed to shock and not really relevant to the actual storyline which will continue on as if they never happened.

2) Dany's plotline bored me to death. It pretty much never went anywhere and while her decisions may be 'realistic' under the circumstances, they don't advance the plot at all and they're just plain dull. It also seemed incredibly out of character for her to suddenly be so afraid of the dragons and essentially abandon them. Where did that come from? She was totally badass in book 3, then suddenly she loses her spine over a few charred bones? Please... the girl's personally responsible the the deaths of what, tens of thousands of people? Her spinelessness seems misplaced.

3) I don't understand the point of the random new Targaryean guy. Why does he even exist? It completely erases the 'Dany is the last Targaryean in the world' thing and pretty much re-writes what was one of the basic premises on which the original story was based. What purpose can that guy possibly serve in the story that Dany doesn't already serve? At the rate Martin is bringing dead people back to life, he'll soon erase his giant body count. Killing off minor characters like Kevan and Pycelle doesn't make up for it.

johnhughthom

07-19-2011, 20:59

I think one of Stannis and Jon will stay dead, like you say the fake deaths thing is getting old and GRR has to know it. You could also ask if the Dornishmen were really necessary, it seems like they were just there to release the dragons.

GeneralHankerchief

07-19-2011, 21:03

Overall, the book was superb. It really moved the plot, particularly in the North where things advanced at blazing speed. Also, it's great to have Tyrion back for for the first time in, what, 8 years? A few major complaints though:

1) I actually got a bit annoyed with the number of cliffhangers he gave, as pretty much all of them strike me as fake. First we had the fake deaths of Tyrion, Davos, Asha, and Danaerys in the middle of the book (did anyone believe any of those?), and at the end he tosses in John Snow and Stannis. After four fake-out deaths in the middle of the book, I don't think the two at the end are remotely believable. Stannis is alive and it's just a fake-out by Bolton who's already lost Winterfell, while John actually is 'dead' but there's conveniently a Red Priest about 5 feet away from him and we've seen a certain Red Priest be rather handy with fixing dead people many times before. All of these 'cliffhangers' seemed a lot more contrived to me, specifically designed to shock and not really relevant to the actual storyline which will continue on as if they never happened.

2) Dany's plotline bored me to death. It pretty much never went anywhere and while her decisions may be 'realistic' under the circumstances, they don't advance the plot at all and they're just plain dull. It also seemed incredibly out of character for her to suddenly be so afraid of the dragons and essentially abandon them. Where did that come from? She was totally badass in book 3, then suddenly she loses her spine over a few charred bones? Please... the girl's personally responsible the the deaths of what, tens of thousands of people? Her spinelessness seems misplaced.

3) I don't understand the point of the random new Targaryean guy. Why does he even exist? It completely erases the 'Dany is the last Targaryean in the world' thing and pretty much re-writes what was one of the basic premises on which the original story was based. What purpose can that guy possibly serve in the story that Dany doesn't already serve? At the rate Martin is bringing dead people back to life, he'll soon erase his giant body count. Killing off minor characters like Kevan and Pycelle doesn't make up for it.

ADWD spoilers in my answer:

1) Agreed with you about the North, and that's what I'm most looking forward to with the next installment, mostly because we have no freaking idea of what's going on up there (as opposed to the South and in Essos, where there are also cliffhangers but we can make educated guesses). I share your opinion that Jon isn't "dead", with the practical reasoning of that now, Martin has no viewpoint character at the Wall (Melisandre had one chapter in ADWD, but she doesn't count). Less certain about Stannis, I plan to go back and reread Ramsay's letter to Jon to see what I think of it again.

2) The biggest disappointment for me was that at the start of ADWD, a bunch of characters and a half were making their way to Dany and Meereen. Tyrion, Jorah, Victarion, etc. Now, 1,000 pages later and with the exception of the Dornish Dumbasses... they're still making their way to Dany and Meereen, and Dany isn't even there anymore. Argh. Really wish Tyrion had called out to Barristan during the fighting pits scene.

3) My only complaint about this issue was that Martin pulled Lil' Aegon out of nowhere. All other stunts he's pulled like this have at least been previously hinted upon. I seriously doubt this Targaryen duality is going to last though, mainly because we last see Lil' Aegon saying he's going to lead the charge at Storm's End, aka the single-most impregnable castle in Westeros (there's the Eyrie, but who's counting). I need to go back and reread that whole "prophecy" sequence in Qarth in A Clash of Kings to see if this was foreshadowed at all.

TinCow

07-19-2011, 22:10

ADWD spoilers in my answer:

1) Agreed with you about the North, and that's what I'm most looking forward to with the next installment, mostly because we have no freaking idea of what's going on up there (as opposed to the South and in Essos, where there are also cliffhangers but we can make educated guesses). I share your opinion that Jon isn't "dead", with the practical reasoning of that now, Martin has no viewpoint character at the Wall (Melisandre had one chapter in ADWD, but she doesn't count). Less certain about Stannis, I plan to go back and reread Ramsay's letter to Jon to see what I think of it again.

2) The biggest disappointment for me was that at the start of ADWD, a bunch of characters and a half were making their way to Dany and Meereen. Tyrion, Jorah, Victarion, etc. Now, 1,000 pages later and with the exception of the Dornish Dumbasses... they're still making their way to Dany and Meereen, and Dany isn't even there anymore. Argh. Really wish Tyrion had called out to Barristan during the fighting pits scene.

3) My only complaint about this issue was that Martin pulled Lil' Aegon out of nowhere. All other stunts he's pulled like this have at least been previously hinted upon. I seriously doubt this Targaryen duality is going to last though, mainly because we last see Lil' Aegon saying he's going to lead the charge at Storm's End, aka the single-most impregnable castle in Westeros (there's the Eyrie, but who's counting). I need to go back and reread that whole "prophecy" sequence in Qarth in A Clash of Kings to see if this was foreshadowed at all.

Re: Stannis, I think he's not dead for several reasons.

First, we don't see a death. The death of Stannis would be a major secondary character death, on par with Robert and Renly and Rob. Martin has never made any of those deaths ambiguous. They were deader than a doornail, and you knew it when you read it. We don't get that with Stannis, we just get a letter from the Bastard, who's not exactly known for telling the truth all the time.

Second, when the Iron Bank of Braavos guy shows up, he says that he just came from Winterfell, where he talked with one of the Umbers. Clearly the Braavos guy is a major Stannis-backer at this point, which indicates that the Umbers may switch sides. Plus, we already know that all the White Harbor guys are going to turn on the Boltons. The only traitors available to betray Stannis are the Karstarks, but the Braavos guy already knew about their plans and he showed up in camp and went to talk to Stannis. He definitely told him about that. So, we've got 1 and potentially 2 traitors on the Bolton side and no traitors on the Stannis side. Plus, Stannis isn't even assaulting the walls. Bolton got impatient and sent his guys out after Stannis, which removes the whole defensive advantage of the castle.

Third, if Stannis loses the entire plotline with the runaway Karstark girl is pointless, as the Thenns will get squashed in 5 seconds by Bolton's army. A Bolton victory would also make Theon's very intricate recovery/rehabilitation pointless, since Theon will also be dead.

tibilicus

07-20-2011, 00:50

On a certain death that is being discussed:

No, not Jon, Stannis. I have my doubts over the letter too. It certainly is believable but if we look at the events surrounding the situation in the North it seems a push for it to be plausible, unless GRRM has something planned out.

Firstly, The Braavosi Banker. Now Stannis has the backing of the Iron Bank of Braavos, a wealthy institution which is part of the most powerful free city as stated, what sense would it make to kill him off? Why introduce something that could rapidly turn Stannis' fortunes around only to kill him off screen?

Secondly, Theon and "Arya" are now at his camp. The northern banners bar two are bound to the Boltons because they have the Stark heir captive. What reason do they have to fight for Roose and Ramsey now? I'm pretty certain the Freys don't even have the northern hostages anymore as Jamie commanded them to be released by decree of the king.

Thirdly, the letter itself. Ramsey asks for his bride back and his "reek". He assumes they are at the wall but given the time span how could they possibly be their? It took Stannis and his host weeks to march through the storm, lets hypothesis Stannis did lose and "Arya", Theon and Asha fled before they were recaptured. Why would they even go to the wall? There are numerous more safe places to go. Quite frankly Jon seems stupid for taking the bait. Even if it real, why march? Ramsay's host wouldn't by logic wouldn't even march on the wall. They have no one they can trust to guard Winterfell on their behalf.

Fourth, the wording of the letter. The repeated reiteration of bastard. The language is sharp and provocative, not controlled like you would expect from a man who claims to be in control of so much. Also why is Roose not writing the letter, why is the Warden of the North letting his bastard send out threats? Is Roose even still alive?

Fifth, Manderley. Roose sends him, his troops and then the Freys out to find and fight Stannis. Why would he not just turn on the Freys? He's already eaten some in a pie and we know where his loyalties lie. I cant see him going out to butcher Stannis, at this point the North's best hope of reinstating the Starks.

Finally, Stannis is a renowned military commander, Established as one of the best in Westeros. Even with his rag tag army I find it hard to see him losing. He knows his stuff. Also the Karstark betrayal which I forgot to mention, essentially Bolton's secret weapon should reach Stannis either by the Braavosi banker, Theon or their travelling companions. Kill the Karstarks, take their supplies and his situation is still bad but certainly a lot less bad.

Of course it remains a mystery how Ramsey would know of the "magic sword" and, more importantly Mance, but you can make your own judgments. I personally thing GRRM would have a lot of convincing to do though if we were to believe Stannis perished.

Centurion1

07-20-2011, 00:53

hahahaha who else loves wyman manderly now

Alexander the Pretty Good

07-20-2011, 04:43

hahahaha who else loves wyman manderly now
Seriously.

Also Alys Karstark. I hope we see more of her - she's got moxie.

GeneralHankerchief

07-20-2011, 11:25

hahahaha who else loves wyman manderly now

Somewhere on the internet there lists a site dedicated to recreating all of the various food that Martin describes over the course of the series. They need to add Frey Pie to that list, STAT. :laugh4:

johnhughthom

07-20-2011, 12:20

I rarely get genuinely emotional reading books, but when Davos reached White Harbour I was livid with Manderly. I had to put it down for ten minutes and tell myself "it's just a book." :laugh4:

I was so relieved when it turned out to be a ruse, I always liked him as a character.

Centurion1

07-21-2011, 14:40

just finished..... book lasted me 4 days and now i have to wait for four years............. dammit.

Stunned ill post some more thoughts later.

Lemur

07-21-2011, 16:13

Moar casting news for season 2 (http://www.tv.com/game-of-thrones-casts-three-big-roles/story/26293.html). All of these actors sound perfect for their roles: "Dutch actress Carice van Houten will wear the red robe of Melisandre, a mysterious woman with connections to Stannis Baratheon and who has all of Westeros seeing red. van Houten has appeared in the films Repo Men and Valkyrie. Stannis will be played British actor Stephen Dillane, who played Thomas Jefferson in HBO's acclaimed John Adams. Those of you who've read the books will see that once again the Game of Thrones casting team has done a great job. [...]The role of Davos, the smuggling Onion Knight, has also been cast: Irish actor Liam Cunningham (Camelot) takes the role."

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Lemurmania/gameofthrones_newcast.jpg

Hooahguy

07-21-2011, 16:27

Wow this is exciting, cant wait for next season!

The Stranger

07-21-2011, 16:29

hmm carice is a good casting i think. she kinda looks like i imagined melisandre :P

Centurion1

07-21-2011, 19:30

hmmmm, least favorite character? Most southorn knights and lords

What a bunch of stupid *****

Hooahguy

07-22-2011, 00:53

For those who missed Comic Con, theres a twitter thing set up by HBO that describes the panel.
http://connect.hbo.com/conversations/game-thrones/game-thrones-comic-con-panel

johnhughthom

07-22-2011, 01:44

I don't think anybody has linked the Margaery Tyrell (http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/06/23/game-of-thrones-casting/) casting yet. Poor choice in my opinion.

Hooahguy

07-22-2011, 02:14

I don't think anybody has linked the Margaery Tyrell (http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/06/23/game-of-thrones-casting/) casting yet. Poor choice in my opinion.
Why do you say that? I think shes fine.
I think GRRM actually personally picks each actor personally.

GeneralHankerchief

07-22-2011, 02:18

Having watched The Tudors, I can't realistically see someone who played the manipulative, scheming Anne Boleyn playing Margarey. She's basically going from playing Cersei's double to Cersei's antithesis.

Centurion1

07-22-2011, 02:26

bad choice. actor is blond and margaery is brunette.

Hooahguy

07-22-2011, 02:29

bad choice. actor is blond and margaery is brunette.
So? Emilia Clarke, who plays Dany, is brunette.

johnhughthom

07-22-2011, 02:45

Margaery is, what, 14 at the start of Clash of Kings? I know they've messed with the ages of most characters but she seems very old for the role.

Hooahguy

07-22-2011, 02:48

I say we wait for season 2 before we pass judgement.

johnhughthom

07-22-2011, 02:53

True, going by the books Peter Dinklage isn't a very good choice, now he is Tyrion in my mind when I read.

Hooahguy

07-22-2011, 02:56

True, going by the books Peter Dinklage isn't a very good choice, now he is Tyrion in my mind when I read.
Yup. In the books Tyrion is described as grotesque.

The Stranger

07-22-2011, 09:27

This SUMMER, strapped for cash, ROBB STARK, is ALEXANDER NEVSKY!

The WHISPERING WOOD, all over again but then in RUSSIAN!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ6md8253EI&feature=related

aimlesswanderer

07-22-2011, 14:25

I was surprised to hear from some of my cousins, who aren't big readers (or readers at all) and are not, AFAIK, fantasy fans, that they thought this series was really good.

I must admit that I am pleasantly surprised that they made an expensive fantasy series, even though I only just managed to read the first book and then gave up.

The more the better I say!

Hooahguy

08-04-2011, 16:56

Lets get this thread going again.
Ok so I just finished AFFC.
I thought it was quite good. Not as good as the previous books, but not a disappointment, IMO.
One of the best parts of AFFC was Sansa. Yes, Sansa. She really matures in this books, and when before her chapters were annoying but now they are a pleasure to read.
And apparently she is really hot as a brunette, as this artist imagined her in the Eryie.
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/thumb/0/0a/Sansa_by_akizhao.jpg/320px-Sansa_by_akizhao.jpg

Also, I liked Jaime's and Cersei's chapters. I liked reading how Jaime came to hate his sister who he once loved and how Cersei's work came down around her. Brienne was a bitter disappointment, I thought something epic was going to happen, but all she does is find Catelyn and then dies. Lame.

johnhughthom

08-04-2011, 17:03

Brienne was a bitter disappointment, I thought something epic was going to happen, but all she does is find Catelyn and then dies. Lame.

Did she? :shrug:

Hooahguy

08-04-2011, 17:08

Did she? :shrug:

Well, Id say getting hanged is a pretty clear indication that one is dead. Though this is GRRM. Anything can happen. But if it turns out Brienne isnt dead I cant say that I will be overjoyed.

Centurion1

08-04-2011, 17:10

Well, Id say getting hanged is a pretty clear indication that one is dead. Though this is GRRM. Anything can happen. But if it turns out Brienne isnt dead I cant say that I will be overjoyed.

I like Brienne.

Hooahguy

08-04-2011, 17:12

I like her too, I just find that she is one of the weaker characters.

Also, heres a Collegehumor vid about the series. (http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6579356/game-of-thrones-rpg)

johnhughthom

08-05-2011, 00:18

Oh yeah, Sansa is still lame. Ned should have killed her and let the wolf live.

Koga No Goshi

08-05-2011, 01:52

I read the first book and couldn't stand it. It was so dry and slow that when I heard they were making a TV show, especially an HBO adaptation, I immediately said they'll have to massively change the story and throw tons of gratuitous sex and nonsense into it to make it more watchable than the first book's story was.

And sure enough, I haven't been watching but my friend links me to a scene where a male-male couple is chest shaving, complete with nipple closeups. Even knowing that things that weren't in the book were going to be thrown in to make it more scandalous and interesting, my mouth still gaped.

Hooahguy

08-05-2011, 04:32

Ah, Koga, your cynicism was not missed with your absence.
At least you are wrong about them throwing a lot of extra stuff to make it interesting.

Koga No Goshi

08-05-2011, 07:47

Ah, Koga, your cynicism was not missed with your absence.
At least you are wrong about them throwing a lot of extra stuff to make it interesting.

Err... did you read the book(s)?

Even from the minimal amount I've seen of the show, they've added a *lot* that wasn't in the book to spice it up.

Hooahguy

08-05-2011, 07:56

Yes I read the books.
There was not a ton that was added. A few sex scenes, a fight scene between Jaime and Ned, a scene here and there that helped explain the motives for certain characters.
But you also said that you didnt watch all the episodes, so you are making an assumption that that one extra scene is reflective of the whole series, when in fact, it is not.
Ah, this reminds me of your backroom days way back when, saying things you cant back up.
If you can point out five major things which they changed in each episode then I will concede that you are right.

Centurion1

08-05-2011, 08:03

Err... did you read the book(s)?

Even from the minimal amount I've seen of the show, they've added a *lot* that wasn't in the book to spice it up.

Read the thread you do not want to argue about this. You are wrong. For a tv series they are very close to the books

The Stranger

08-06-2011, 13:15

Err... did you read the book(s)?

Even from the minimal amount I've seen of the show, they've added a *lot* that wasn't in the book to spice it up.

ehm imo the books are more full of nudity than the series. and the its also kinda full of what we would nowadays consider paedophily. if anything hbo made the series less adult rated XD

also why does your mouth gape when its 2 guys shaving chest hairs but not when its 2 girls having sex in a brothel... or a guy having sex with his sister? or did i misunderstand it?

:creep:

Skullheadhq

08-07-2011, 12:32

I prefer 'The Borgias', I just strongly dislike fantasy nonsense. 'The Borgias' isn't 100% historical as well, but is is fun!

The Stranger

08-07-2011, 14:47

I prefer 'The Borgias', I just strongly dislike fantasy nonsense. 'The Borgias' isn't 100% historical as well, but is is fun!

borgias is good as well. but one of the reasons i like GoT so much is because it isnt that much focused on the fantasy aspect. it feels more like a mythology. you have some direwolfs which are mostly just very loyal and vicious wolfs, i can live with that, tales of a dragon, stories of ancient creatures with strange powers. accusations of witchcraft, nothing you wouldnt see in a good series about the medieval times. ofcourse till will all change later but it still remains a good story.

Hooahguy

08-14-2011, 14:52

https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa73/hooahguy14/35a7b34096d4012e2f8100163e41dd5b.jpg

econ21

08-18-2011, 17:32

TinCow

08-18-2011, 17:46

I am in the middle of reading a Storm of Swords 2: Blood and Gold and loving it - is this the highpoint of the series? To be honest, some of the earlier books were a bit of a slog, as I was often not that interested in a particular character's sub-plot at that point. The alternating POV structure meant you were often cooled off just as one sub-plot was coming to the boil. Now, all the various stories are exciting and there have been some shocking twists rather like at the end of the TV series 1. Right now, it's incredibly compelling.

I actually had to look this up, because in the US a Storm of Swords is just one volume. Apparently you Brits can't heft such a weighty tome and had to have it split in twain. Fear not, though, you're apparently still twice as manly as the French, who had to have theirs cut into quarters.

A Storm of Swords (the entire, proper, full book) is definitely the crown jewel of the series so far. No book is so dramatic or shocking as that one. Unfortunately, you will now have to slog through A Feast for Crows next, which is the weakest of the series. However, you'll at least have the consolation of being able to immediately follow that one up with A Dance With Dragons, which has some flaws but generally gets right back into the swing of things, though not at the level of Storm. You should feel pity for us long-term fans who had to wait eleven years between Storm and Dance, with only the mediocre Feast to tide us over at the half-way mark.

Lemur

08-26-2011, 00:50

Best use of GoT I've yet seen on the internets:

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Lemurmania/khal.jpg

econ21

08-26-2011, 01:34

Season 2 casting updates - they are look quite perfect to me. I particularly like the onion knight and Roose Bolton.

http://www.pajiba.com/trade_news/in-this-light-she-could-almost-be-a-beauty-in-this-light-she-could-almost-be-a-knight-game-of-thrones-season-2-casting-updates.php

CrimsonArchAngel

01-08-2012, 05:52

might have some spoiler info

looks like I have a lot to read here but I will post first.
I am in the middle of episode 5 and waiting for book 5 that I ordered.
I am greatly disappointing that Little finger spoke about the hounds burns instead of the Hound telling Sensa himself.
I recall that the Hound had and that it was the beginning of what little friendship they had.
I am most downhearted that I had to find somewhere to tell what a fool idea it was to make Loras and Renly lovers.
Mr. Martin holds nothing back, if they were gay he would have said so. Renly marries Loras's sister, Loras was Renly's squire before he was knighted. The knight of Flowers reminds me of Sir Lancelot when I read the books, the producers have really boggled this one. Until I get book 5 and can confirm ya or nay I am of the opinion that it was Loras that was bedding his own sister as Jaime was Cersie.
this is only the second website I have found to voice my opinion as I just started looking, if someone knows a site the the shows producers read please post it here. I am also disappointed in the book and hope the producers change the fact that Renly's kings guard wears rainbow cloaks and the Septons knights use rainbow sword belts and have rainbow swords on their shields. You would never see a knight of the Round Table, a Knights Templar or Hospitler, and definitely never a horseman of Charlemagne's wear a rainbow. Charlemagne would have beheaded them before he ever made his horsemen into the first lords of Europe.

johnhughthom

01-08-2012, 06:06

CountArach

01-08-2012, 06:28

might have some spoiler info
this is only the second website I have found to voice my opinion as I just started looking, if someone knows a site the the shows producers read please post it here. I am also disappointed in the book and hope the producers change the fact that Renly's kings guard wears rainbow cloaks and the Septons knights use rainbow sword belts and have rainbow swords on their shields. You would never see a knight of the Round Table, a Knights Templar or Hospitler, and definitely never a horseman of Charlemagne's wear a rainbow. Charlemagne would have beheaded them before he ever made his horsemen into the first lords of Europe.
Why is this problematic? The whole point of Renly is that he isn't a knight and that he is utterly flamboyant.

As for Loras and Margery, the possibility is there and they are certainly close. However, it is clear that Loras was more interested in Renly.

Centurion1

01-08-2012, 07:57

inaccurate renly certainly was a knight. he was a Ser

johnhughthom

01-08-2012, 08:03

inaccurate renly certainly was a knight. he was a Ser

I think CountArach means that Renly did not behave like a typical knight.

Centurion1

01-08-2012, 09:16

ohhh

im bit sure he was a respected fighter and was in the melees and to be knighted you had to distinguish yourself in war.

Beskar

01-08-2012, 10:14

Renly was Knighted during Robert's Rebellion but he is a Lord of a Major House which is a far higher rank. Plus he is a member of the Royal Family too. So on the whole "Ranking system" he comes just beneath Robert, Cersei and those children, so "6th" in the realm, (Stannis 7th as no one really likes him)

On a slightly hijacking note:

I am currently hosting a game where you will be playing a character just before the end of Game of Thrones (TV Series), so based in this turbulent situation, you now take hold of their destinies and shape it by your own hands.
Game of Thrones: Sign Up (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?139628-Game-of-Thrones-Sign-up)

CountArach

01-09-2012, 01:13

I think CountArach means that Renly did not behave like a typical knight.
Indeed. I should have said that he doesn't follow the typical chivalric code.

im bit sure he was a respected fighter and was in the melees and to be knighted you had to distinguish yourself in war.
Being Robert's brother probably didn't hurt.

The Stranger

01-09-2012, 15:32

Carice van Houten: Melisandre of Asshai

great cast!

Mouzafphaerre

01-10-2012, 13:54

I like the show. Watched the first season last summer in less than a week and am looking forward to the second.

Carice van Houten is great news indeed! :jumping:

CrimsonArchAngel

01-10-2012, 20:43

The only love I have seen in the books is the same as Robert and Eddard showed for Jon Arryn. Loras was Renly's squire and loved him as such. Bienne was the one devoutly in love with Renly and was close enough to him and would surely have been disenchanted if she were to see that Renly were gay. Mr Martin doesn't hold back but just enough to wonder till he turns all loose. If they had been lovers he would have let it be known before it was to late. It would have been Loras that armored Renly for his battle with Stannis just for the fact that as lovers they may have been touching for the last time. As for Brienne, Christie may hopefully be tall enough but she will need a horse head from makeup. A lot of make up to make her as homely as she's supposed to be. The only main male characters that were not knights, squires or lords were the sellswords, captain of the watch at first then became at least a lord, and the hound who detested knighthood. They didn't show the melee that Robert was insisting on fighting in and we later find out that some of the combatants would have killed him in the confusion as Cercie purposefully told him he couldn't fight in it so he would object to her so openly. Instead they changed it to some idiocy about him readying to joust. Robert was never a jouster it explicitly states so in a later book when Cercie goofs and says what a good jouster Joffrey's father was. without the melee they left out the vision of the Fiery Priest who I am uncertain if I read over that he may or may not have been a knight or a lord. I'll be done with book 5 by Thursday and will hopefully have a better idea about the little queen and her dieing brother, but I hear the first 600 pages will be recapping book 4 but the views not heard in 4.

johnhughthom

01-10-2012, 20:54

Stannis to Renly, regarding Margaery being a maiden: “In your bed she’s like to die that way.”
Jaime to Loras: “Now sheathe your bloody sword, or I’ll take it from you and shove it up some place even Renly never found.”

There are more, nothing concrete, but a consistent picture emerges that the two were lovers.

A more pertinent question would be, why is this such an issue to you?

Hooahguy

01-10-2012, 21:54

I hear the first 600 pages will be recapping book 4 but the views not heard in 4.
Yup, GRRM himself says that the first half or so of book 5 is happening at the same time as book 4, and at some point they converge and all the characters are included.

The Stranger

05-27-2012, 20:06

spambot :O

johnhughthom

06-14-2012, 20:27

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/18441163

:crazy:

It always disappoints me when people actually apologise over crap like this.

rajpoot

03-03-2013, 19:01

Extended trailer for Season 3 that begins on March 31st. Looks awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=C1pbtBX9Kok

Hooahguy

03-04-2013, 20:21

March 31st cant come soon enough.

drone

03-04-2013, 22:11

March 31st cant come soon enough.

I find it humorous that HBO schedules the GoT season premiere for the start of spring...

Any word on who is cast for Hoat, or are they just writing the Mummers out?

rajpoot

03-05-2013, 04:51

I find it humorous that HBO schedules the GoT season premiere for the start of spring...

Any word on who is cast for Hoat, or are they just writing the Mummers out?

They most certainly have not been written out. The trailer shows Brienne fighting a bear in a pit, and what appears to be Jamie fighting a Mummer.
The rumour was that Ned Dennehy has been cast as Vargo Hoat.

Edit:
Google search shows that things have changed, they seem to have changed Hoat to Locke (http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Locke).
http://winteriscoming.net/2012/10/filming-rumors-and-reports-taylor-is-in/

drone

03-05-2013, 16:19

The Mummers (and Hoat) should have played a role in season 2, I was wondering how they were going to handle Jamie's "transformation". Switching to Locke probably means they are going all in on the Boltons, Jamie and Brienne can still have their adventures without introducing the concept of mercs to the story line.

rajpoot

03-06-2013, 07:26

Jamie and Brienne can still have their adventures without introducing the concept of mercs to the story line.

Yeah. I was looking forward to the lisp though.

Kingthlayer!

rajpoot

03-18-2013, 18:41

And we have another trailer.
This time with some footage of who appears to be Daario Naharis, although it seems he won't have a beard in the show.
There's also some bit Joarh Mormont sword action, which is always welcome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4XSeW4B5Rg&feature=player_embedded

Hooahguy

04-03-2013, 02:46

So, thoughts on the premier? I really liked it. Not much action but still, a great start to the season.

Alexander the Pretty Good

04-03-2013, 03:07

I thought it was a little underwhelming. I had no real problems with it, but it was just low key setup.

rajpoot

04-03-2013, 05:39

I thought it was a little underwhelming. I had no real problems with it, but it was just low key setup.

This.
But then I'm sure it's going to get better.

Found the scene where Davos Seaworth is picked up by the boat a little touching. Probably because of the excellent background music. The bits with Joffery, Cersei and Margery were nice too. Kind of unusual to see Joffery not being a :daisy:.

drone

04-03-2013, 17:14

That short scene with Bolton and Karstark might be a lead-in to both Jamie's storyline and the season 3 climax (slight change from the books but still acceptable). And it's always nice to see Barristan back in the show.

And season 4 is definitely a go. (http://variety.com/2013/tv/news/hbo-renews-game-of-thrones-3-1200331938/)

Arjos

04-03-2013, 17:31

What I'm looking forward the most, in this season, is the reaction to the RW, by the tv audience, unaware of it :P

rajpoot

04-03-2013, 18:31

What I'm looking forward the most, in this season, is the reaction to the RW, by the tv audience, unaware of it :P

It's not going to be anywhere close to the reaction when Sean lost his bean. Robb's story arc has never been as much in focus as that of the other Starks. In fact had it not been for Oona Chaplin it would've been the most boring part of the show.

Alexander the Pretty Good

04-03-2013, 23:02

Now that I think on it a bit, I think you're right. Which is funny, because the show has given him greater attention than the books do.

Paradox

04-04-2013, 02:41

I didn't think it was underwhelming at all. The past two seasons started out slow and get intense by the fifth episodes.

The Lurker Below

04-04-2013, 22:04

really enjoyed season one, but with season two found myself watching more to see how much and what has changed from the books. they're very good show, and if taken without having read the books, would be fantastic. just can't bring myself to ignore the changes and end up being too distracted to enjoy them as much as should. a situation that will only worsen with each additional season.

Alexander the Pretty Good

04-08-2013, 23:57

Now that last episode, *that* was good TV.

Arjos

04-10-2013, 14:45

Agreed ^^

I'm really liking the new actors aswell, Olenna was awesome.

TinCow

04-10-2013, 21:55

It's not going to be anywhere close to the reaction when Sean lost his bean. Robb's story arc has never been as much in focus as that of the other Starks. In fact had it not been for Oona Chaplin it would've been the most boring part of the show.

I disagree, because

it's not just Robb getting whacked, it's his entire army and his mother. So far, TV-only viewers have only seen solo-deaths of main characters. A wholesale massacre of one of the dominant factions of the entire series will blow their minds. Not to mention the only remaining faction in Westeros that the audience is largely sympathetic towards.

Beskar

04-11-2013, 15:50

I disagree, because....

Unfortunately, the scenes with Robb have been terribly boring though, even with Oona Chaplin, but I do agree....
With what you said about the downfall of one of the most sympathetic factions. Game of Thrones does that that whole vibe about it, it destroys factions and makes others look better, and creates new ones. Before we know it, we will be supporting the King from Beyond the Wall.

johnhughthom

04-11-2013, 15:56

rajpoot

04-11-2013, 16:22

I haven't watched since series 2, as tv generally bores me, but I don't quite get this Oona Chapman character. Has the tv series totally done away with Tywin's role in Robb getting married? I guess that was just inferred in the books, rather than stated outright, but anything that takes away from the awesome of Tywin is bad.

:stare:
Chaplin, the hot granddaughter of Charlie Chaplin.
I'm pretty sure that even in the show Tywin Lannister will get due credit for the Red Wedding. That said they do seem have done away with the Westerlings all together, which is a pity because they've been mentioned even in A Dance with the Dragons. However considering that the TV series will generally follow the story of the books, we can probably infer that they won't have a big part to play in the future (in the books I mean).

johnhughthom

04-11-2013, 16:40

TinCow

04-11-2013, 17:55

I'm not talking about the Red Wedding, I mean that through her mother Tywin was behind Jeyne marrying Robb. Perhaps I just read more into it than was really there, but I'm pretty sure something in a later book strongly implied Tywin was behind the whole thing, to turn the Freys against Robb.

It was never my impression that that marriage was engineered by anyone other than Jeyne and Robb. If there were later implications of Tywin having a hand in it, I completely missed them.

Beskar

04-11-2013, 18:18

It was never my impression that that marriage was engineered by anyone other than Jeyne and Robb. If there were later implications of Tywin having a hand in it, I completely missed them.

Tywin used the opportunity. Jeyne's mother was a strong Lannister supporter and wrote to him upon it, she was against the union for reasons, and Tywin encouraged her to let them go through with it, offering coin, and told her to give her daughter moonbrew, to make sure there was no reproduction. Jeyne mentions her mother giving her a brew to help in fertility (it was the opposite).

So Jeyne's mother played a big part in promoting the relationship and marriage, and making sure no child was born.

rajpoot

04-11-2013, 18:30

TinCow

04-11-2013, 18:37

Do people notice that even Shae seems to play a larger (and a less 'evil' role) in the show.

Makes me feel she won't end up betraying Tyrion like the books, but will be killed on Tywin's orders. She's probably going to provide Tyrion the motivation Tysha provides in the books.

I don't think that's how it's going to go at all. I think

It will stick largely to the book, in part because the betrayal will be even more of a dagger to the heart for viewers. She'll testify against him at his trial, and then she'll end up in bed with Tywin and share the same fate. That scene will also be the end of Season 4.

johnhughthom

04-11-2013, 18:45

Also the truth about Tysha is something that will make the viewers even more sympathetic toward Tyrion.

rajpoot

04-11-2013, 19:57

I don't think that's how it's going to go at all. I think

It will stick largely to the book, in part because the betrayal will be even more of a dagger to the heart for viewers. She'll testify against him at his trial, and then she'll end up in bed with Tywin and share the same fate. That scene will also be the end of Season 4.

But she seems so concerned about Sansa. Something which is quite a deviation from the book, wherein if I remember rightly, she actually tells Tyrion that she thinks Sansa is stupid and dull. (Or something to this effect)

Also the truth about Tysha is something that will make the viewers even more sympathetic toward Tyrion.

I can wager a lot on the fact that Tysha's story will never be introduced separately now. They've had plenty of Tyrion-Tywin scenes, where they talk about Tyrion's hobbies and activities, the most recent one in the second episode of this season. They can't just have Jamie bring it up out of nowhere without any preamble, or it'll be too confusing. So yeah. I still think Shae is going to be a more sympathetic character in the show.

That said I would've liked had they stuck to the book's version.
Revealing the hypocrisy of Tywin Lannister was an awesome move. I loved that chapter, despite all the :daisy:

johnhughthom

04-11-2013, 19:58

This is why I don't watch tv. :laugh4:

rajpoot

04-11-2013, 20:33

This is why I don't watch tv. :laugh4:

Hey hey hey now. Don't blame TV. I'm quite capable to wasting my time discussing other stuff to no end. Video games for instance. :tongue:

TinCow

04-11-2013, 21:45

But she seems so concerned about Sansa. Something which is quite a deviation from the book, wherein if I remember rightly, she actually tells Tyrion that she thinks Sansa is stupid and dull. (Or something to this effect)

That's true, but the fact is that they chose to make Shae a main character in the show, almost certainly to allow us to see Tyrion's private side. In the books that is largely accomplished with his internal monologues, which don't adapt well to television. So, we get more Shae to allow us a better look at Tyrion. As a result, there also needs to be some reason for Shae to be there. Putting her in her book role (the kitchen) would have been largely pointless and contributed nothing to the show. By making her Sansa's maid, she actually starts fulfilling a needed role in multiple areas. It's efficient and it works.

At the same time, that doesn't change who Shae is. She's still just a prostitute who's mainly concerned with her own state of affairs. The show has made her a bit deeper and more 'human' but that was natural because she's getting a lot more involving in the show than she got in the book. The fact remains that

Tyrion is still going to go on trial, and Shae is going to have to make a choice. That choice will be whether to support a man who is on trial for the murder of the King (his own nephew). That man's own family wants to see him dead, and they're ruling the kingdom. While Shae might like Tyrion, I don't think it's going to be too difficult to demonstrate why she chooses to testify against him. Her future with him was essentially over at that point anyway, and she's got to look out for number one. After that, there's no reason to change anything about the rest of her storyline.

It's also one of the most dramatic moments in the entire book series. I really can't see them doing anything that would alter it, particularly since it gives HBO what they love most: tits and violence.

drone

04-11-2013, 22:01

I can wager a lot on the fact that Tysha's story will never be introduced separately now. They've had plenty of Tyrion-Tywin scenes, where they talk about Tyrion's hobbies and activities, the most recent one in the second episode of this season. They can't just have Jamie bring it up out of nowhere without any preamble, or it'll be too confusing.
The Tysha story was told in season 1. The drinking game scene with Tyrion, Bronn, and Shae. I'm guessing the Tyrion-Tywin-Shae storyline is going to pan out just like the books.

Alexander the Pretty Good

04-12-2013, 01:24

It was never my impression that that marriage was engineered by anyone other than Jeyne and Robb. If there were later implications of Tywin having a hand in it, I completely missed them.

The theory is that the show will tell the story that it was engineered even though the books don't have that. It makes the RW into more of a betrayal, and cements Tywin as one of the Big Bads. Simpler, more emotional, than the books - sells better on TV.

It would be the one TV change that I'd be really disappointed in, because I'm still a Stark partisan and need Jeyne to be pregnant with Robb's son so the North can rally around him. As ridiculously unlikely an counter to the themes of the book that is...

rajpoot

04-15-2013, 09:23

The Stranger

04-15-2013, 12:22

The third episode has been by far the best one this season, even up to the grisly last scene. Tyrion bits were awesome as always, specially where he places his chair. And we learn of Pod's hidden talent :laugh4:
Somethings I did not get;
Firstly Theon's story. Who's got him? Where's Ramsey Bolton? Second, where's Melisandre going? Also IMO Stannis appears a little too crazed.
Other than that, I really wish they start splitting characters and don't try to focus on so many story arcs at the same time. Reintroducing everyone together was OK, but now they should really start splitting characters by episodes. I think it'll be better if you see a character for only a few episodes but at greater length, rather than seeing them every episode for 3 minutes.

ye this episode seems to be deviating by quite alot :S i think the one who killed all the men who tried to rape theon was ramsey, seeing as the man who he killed called him bastard. i think they found theons path in the books too cruel so theyll change it. Also is the one who cut of jaimes hand vargo hoat? because he seemed far to northerer to me.

TinCow

04-15-2013, 14:21

Yes, I also think the guy who freed/saved Theon was Ramsey. The only thing they can do with Theon for both this season and next season is have Ramsey torture/mess with him to a severe degree, so they need to stretch that out as much as possible. I'm positive that they're just showing Ramsey 'befriending' Theon and then turning on him just for laughs and then to break him further. It's not that much of a deviation since Ramsey did basically do just that, but in Book 2. Since they completely skipped that plotline in Season 2, it's fair for them to put a bit of it into Season 3/4.

Re: Vargo Hoat, I think they've completely written out all of the Brave Companions and are substituting Bolton and his men for them. While I liked Hoat, I'm okay with that change. There are so many characters already that the show has difficulty keeping track of them all. Adding yet another random mercenary company just after they finally introduced the Brotherhood would have had a lot of viewers scratching their heads. Jamie still saved Brienne from getting raped and he still lost his hand. So, the show didn't skip any of the necessary plot points. It doesn't really matter who does that stuff, as long as it's done. Given the prominence of the Bear song, I expect we'll also get the bear pit fight as well, so it's all looking good for that story to me.

rajpoot

04-15-2013, 15:18

Yup Brave Companions have been written out. I linked an article to that on the last page.
As for the bear fight;
It's going to be there. There's a second long bit in one of the trailers where in Brienne appears to be in rags fighting something in a pit

Alexander the Pretty Good

04-16-2013, 04:09

I think I'm almost as lost as someone who's never read the books because of the aggregate deviations from the books (with which individually I've had no real issues).

Arjos

04-16-2013, 07:26

Second, where's Melisandre going?

She spoke of king's blood, so probably went to find Edric or some other bastard. Maybe the show will make up a story with Gendry?

As for the other changes, I was ok with them. Books are always available ^^

There are so many characters already that the show has difficulty keeping track of them all.

Seems to be the case...

Such a shame not hearing "Kingthlayer!" though :D

Other than that, I really wish they start splitting characters and don't try to focus on so many story arcs at the same time. Reintroducing everyone together was OK, but now they should really start splitting characters by episodes. I think it'll be better if you see a character for only a few episodes but at greater length, rather than seeing them every episode for 3 minutes.

Agreed, I'm kinda tired of how protracted Dany's story is...
Like in season 2, where it took the whole season for something like 2 chapters. But I guess they have too keep everyone in, to please the respective fans and don't lose audience...

The Stranger

04-16-2013, 11:13

shes going to get edric, i think in the books edric was on dragonstone already but the probably skipped that last season. i thought it was davos who redeemed himself and saved edric from getting burned.

Arjos

04-16-2013, 11:33

Ofc that's the "real" story :P

I doubt they are going to introduce Edric and all his story, just for a 5 mins scene...
Probably will pick up a random bastard, who survived Cersei's assassinations (still if this is the case, having her departure scene feels unnecessary to me, could've just get on with the main scene with Davos)...
That's why I think they might end up mixing the story with Gendry. It will get Arya & Co, near the sea to get the storyline of the Hound and the voyage to Braavos...

We'll just have to watch ^^

drone

04-16-2013, 15:03

It's going to be a shame when Tyrion, Bronn, and Pod get split up. Great chemistry, especially Tyrion and Bronn, like an old married couple. I bet the actors are having a blast together. :yes:

rajpoot

04-16-2013, 15:41

Found the summary for episode number 8 (The Bear and the Maiden Fair);
It appears Mel will meet Gendry;

Dany exchanges gifts with a slave lord outside of Yunkai. As Sansa frets about her prospects, Shae chafes at Tyrion's new situation. Tywin counsels the king, and Melisandre reveals a secret to Gendry. Brienne faces a formidable foe in Harrenhal.

Also found out that the title for the next episode is And Now His Watch is Ended;
Considering where the story is, I'm guessing this means next episode is the last we'll see of Jeor Monmont. And somehow despite all the deaths the show has seen up till now, after Ned Stark, this'll be the most saddening one. Specially since the awesomeness of the Old Bear has only risen after his dialogue in episode number 2.
Tarly, I forbid you to die!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0BD-CFVZ1w

Reminded me of Bane in TDKR.

Alexander the Pretty Good

04-17-2013, 01:29

I think he was one of the people who got *less* sympathetic from the books. He got more "screen time" in the books, and at least in this season he's mostly just running about and being harsh but fair.

Hooahguy

04-22-2013, 06:01

Holy hell that was amazing.

When Dany was speaking in Valyrian, hell that whole scene, gave me chills.

Fantastic episode, cant wait until next week!

Mouzafphaerre

04-22-2013, 14:58

Khaleesi! Khaleesi FTW! :whip:

Mouzafphaerre

04-22-2013, 15:18

I knew Khaleesi wouldn't let me down, I just knew it! :2thumbsup:

The nonexistent hitting on the decrepit :laugh4:

https://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg68/Mouzafphaerre/Game%20of%20Thrones/vlc-2013-04-22-16h16m32s191.jpg (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/Mouzafphaerre/media/Game%20of%20Thrones/vlc-2013-04-22-16h16m32s191.jpg.html)

"Dracarys!"

https://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg68/Mouzafphaerre/Game%20of%20Thrones/vlc-2013-04-22-16h49m57s19.jpg (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/Mouzafphaerre/media/Game%20of%20Thrones/vlc-2013-04-22-16h49m57s19.jpg.html)

Khaleesi :bow:

https://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg68/Mouzafphaerre/Game%20of%20Thrones/vlc-2013-04-22-16h51m42s62.jpg (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/Mouzafphaerre/media/Game%20of%20Thrones/vlc-2013-04-22-16h51m42s62.jpg.html)

Khaleesi and the Unsullied

https://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg68/Mouzafphaerre/Game%20of%20Thrones/vlc-2013-04-22-16h53m52s108.jpg (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/Mouzafphaerre/media/Game%20of%20Thrones/vlc-2013-04-22-16h53m52s108.jpg.html)

PS: Please markup the spoilers from the books as well; not that you haven't been doing so, just a reminder ~;)

drone

04-22-2013, 19:59

I knew Khaleesi wouldn't let me down, I just knew it! :2thumbsup:

She's looking extra saucy in that scene. :yes:

I don't really get the Theon scenes. I guess they don't want to essentially shelve the character for a couple of seasons, but the alternative just doesn't make sense. Theon was Eddard Stark's ward for what, 7-9 years? In all that time he wouldn't have traveled to Deepwood Motte or the Dreadfort on visits to Stark bannermen? It just seems a little forced, and there are lots of other storylines that could be taking the minutes. We should only be seeing bits and pieces of Theon (pun intended).

My guess on the Jaime/RW replacement storyline
Bolton will know that Locke has Jaime, and uses that knowledge to turn Karstark against Robb by promising Jaime to him for the RW betrayal. I'm guessing Karstark gets killed during the RW (maybe by the Greatjon) instead of Robb beheading him for the killing of the Lannister prisoners. Bolton then releases Jaime (and I assume Brienne) afterwards to Tywin.

rajpoot

04-22-2013, 20:14

Best episode this season. They're really setting the bar high. Every scene was full of win. Specially Tywin's scene with Cersei. He really puts her in her place.
And Mormont goes out like a boss. Lifts Rast up single handed and nearly strangles him (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NeckLift) before succumbing.

The nonexistent hitting on the decrepit :laugh4:

That and Varys' reaction was perhaps one of the funniest bits in all the episodes till date. :yes:

My guess on the Jaime/RW replacement storyline
Bolton will know that Locke has Jaime, and uses that knowledge to turn Karstark against Robb by promising Jaime to him for the RW betrayal. I'm guessing Karstark gets killed during the RW (maybe by the Greatjon) instead of Robb beheading him for the killing of the Lannister prisoners. Bolton then releases Jaime (and I assume Brienne) afterwards to Tywin.

They showed the young Lannisters last episode....doesn't Karstark kill them?

drone

04-22-2013, 20:33

They showed the young Lannisters last episode....doesn't Karstark kill them?

Yes, but he killed them more or less right after Catelyn let Jaime go. Karstark has been somewhat civil up to this point, which is what leads me to believe Bolton will turn him with Jaime as leverage. In the end, it might even be Bolton that kills Karstark, as he knows he needs Jaime alive to get into Tywin's favor.

The Queen of Thorns has not disappointed, great casting.

Lord Godfrey

04-22-2013, 22:00

Yes, but he killed them more or less right after Catelyn let Jaime go. Karstark has been somewhat civil up to this point, which is what leads me to believe Bolton will turn him with Jaime as leverage. In the end, it might even be Bolton that kills Karstark, as he knows he needs Jaime alive to get into Tywin's favor.

The Queen of Thorns has not disappointed, great casting.

Rob has to be the one who wields the sword when Karstark is given a death sentence for killing the young Lannisters….that’s how its done in the North. It would be too big of a departure for it to go any other way. But I like your theory on Bolton’s involvement, takes the behind the scenes scheming with Tywin all the way thru the various story arcs

drone

04-22-2013, 22:49

Rob has to be the one who wields the sword when Karstark is given a death sentence for killing the young Lannisters….that’s how its done in the North. It would be too big of a departure for it to go any other way. But I like your theory on Bolton’s involvement, takes the behind the scenes scheming with Tywin all the way thru the various story arcs

I think they reworked the plot to avoid that altogether. I'm thinking the Karstark story arc was too minor for the show, at this late date there would be no point in Karstark killing the Lannisters and getting justice from Robb. Jaime was freed 7 episodes ago, and it would take too many scenes to get Rickard on the block. Why not just roll it all into the RW plot, with the same consequences (dead Karstark, Robb with a wolf's head, a freed Jaime, and Bolton becoming the cunning Warden of the North)? The RW is episode 9, they have only just introduced Edmure and still need to set him up the bomb.

Alexander the Pretty Good

04-23-2013, 04:30

I think they might just not even address the Karstark side plot. Isn't the only consequence in the books that Robb loses the Karstark soldiers and they later on decide to side against Stannis/the North? It's a revealing sideplot, but it's still largely self-contained.

As for the show, Karstark Prime is just one of the half-dozen salty Northern Lords who say Ominous Things to Robb, like the Greatjon.

EDIT: also jumping on the "best episode so far" bandwagon.

LittleGrizzly

04-24-2013, 04:24

Okay I am a bit lost with all the names (I recognise them by look rather than name)

Before I do start writing anything I want to check the rules we are using for spoilers, spoilers are only for things in the books whereas information from the latest episode released in America is okay?

Loved the latest episode, that Queen of thorns (I assume) is quite an entertaining character, loving her daughter's manipulation as well.

Spoonska

04-26-2013, 04:12

I've spent the past two weeks catching up, and now I'm finally current. I can't believe I've waiting so long to get into this show.

Sunday's episode was intense, and almost seemed like a late season episode. I hate having to wait for new episodes now.

LittleGrizzly

04-27-2013, 04:55

Welcome to the forum Spoonska :2thumbsup:

I am going to assume we can post without spoiler on latest American episodes, if required please edit to put the spoilers in.

Couldn't believe when they cut off his hand, fair play to the big girl though she seems to have some genuine care for him (or perhaps just repayment for the suffering he saved her from) unless she really is that committed to her mission.

Looking forward to seeing what happens with the big soldier guy with the scarred face (I should probably learn some names at some point, they mostly seem to slip from my mind when the show isn't on) fights.

I am very interested in the religious woman who is advising the one potential leader, seems so confident and assured of herself.

Absolutely loving the dragon queen, she seems to have it all, beauty, morality (well in comparison to most others) bravery and she isn't stupid either (from what I can tell so far)

Very much looking forward to seeing her armies and dragons in action.

edyzmedieval

04-29-2013, 00:44

I'm usually not a fan of TV shows and the like, I never had the determination to go right through the end, but I have to say Game of Thrones gripped me big time. Even if I know what's happening beforehand (read... no, devoured! the books).

:yes:

Hooahguy

04-29-2013, 07:46

Oh my that was simply an excellent episode, this season has been a blast so far and I imagine will only get better!

The Karstark execution scene gave me chills, very, very well done!

Jaime's scene in the tub was also a high point of the episode, they really casted him well.

drone

04-29-2013, 15:39

And I stand corrected. :stwshame:

Hooahguy

04-29-2013, 21:22

And I stand corrected. :stwshame:

Aye, and what a scene it was. I still have chills when I think of it. And the music just went so well with it.

Mouzafphaerre

04-30-2013, 03:09

Didn't like the duel at the opening of the episode. It was modern day gibberish, strangled by too quick sequencing. The rest was a blast :2thumbsup:

drone

04-30-2013, 17:06

Didn't like the duel at the opening of the episode. It was modern day gibberish, strangled by too quick sequencing.

In all fairness, it's probably pretty difficult to film a sword fight, in a dark cave, with a sword and shield on fire and lots of people about.

Lots of good stuff. Robb's slow but inevitable descent, Shireen and Davos, Tywin putting his kids in their place, and of course the bath scene. Probably wins the award for the highest number of main characters showing their rear ends in a given episode.

The Stranger

05-01-2013, 04:56

igrids rearview was the best.

tub scene was very good, but not for the rearviews. i forgot that jaime was actually likeable.

Spoonska

05-03-2013, 12:48

I was pretty disappointed in the lack of Greyjoy storyline in this week's episode. Other than that, I'm in agreeance with everyone else. Absolutely spectacular episode.

Welcome to the forum Spoonska
Thanks!

Lord Godfrey

05-03-2013, 20:43

igrids rearview was the best.

You know nothing Jon Snow........he knows how to use his tongue :yes:

Spoonska

05-06-2013, 12:44

I loved last nights episode. The comedic beats had me almost in tears. Olenna is quickly becoming one of my favorite characters.

Hooahguy

05-06-2013, 13:58

Yup, the conversation between Olenna and Tywin I think was one of the best of the series. And Littlefinger's speech about the ladder of chaos... left me in chills.

And Im really sad that Ros is gone, I liked her.

Spoonska

05-06-2013, 14:37

Here is the exchange between Littlefinger and Varys in case anyone is curious. And, I wonder how Theon would take Ros's death ? Their moment in s1 when she leaves for King's Landing is one of my favorites.

Varys: A thousand blades, taken from the hands of Aegon's fallen enemies, forged in the fiery breaths of Balerion the Dread.

Littlefinger: There aren't a thousand blades, there aren't even two hundred. I've counted.

Varys: Ha, I'm sure you have. Ugly, old thing.

Littlefinger: Yet it has a certain appeal.

Varys: The Lysa Arryn of chairs. Shame you have to settle for your second choice.

Littlefinger: Early days, my friends. It is flattering, really. You feeling such DREAD at the prospect of me getting me what I want.

Varys: Thwarting you has never been my primary ambition, I promise you...although who doesn't like to see their friends fail now and then?

Littlefinger: You're so right. For instance, when I thwarted your plan to give Sansa Stark to the Tyrells. If I'm going to be honest, I did feel an unmistakable sense of enjoyment. But your confidant, the one who fed you information about my plans, the one you swore to protect...you didn't bring her any enjoyment. And she didn't bring me any enjoyment. She was a bad investment on my part. Luckily, I have a friend who wants to try something new...something daring...and he was so grateful to me for providing this "fresh experience"....

Varys: I did what I did for the good of the realm--

Littlefinger: The "realm"? Do you know what the "realm" is? It's the thousand blades of Aegon's enemies: a story we agreed to tell each other over and over till we forget that it's a lie.

Varys: What do we have left once we've abandoned the lie? Chaos, a gaping pit waiting to swallow us all?

Littlefinger: Chaos...isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many that try to climb it fail, never get to try it again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb. They refuse, they cling to the realm for the gods, for love...illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Mouzafphaerre

05-06-2013, 20:08

Whoever culls that vermin, that inbred abomination, will have my gratitude. That will be the ultimate catharsis, oh yes! :whip:

Welcome indeed Sponska :bow:

LittleGrizzly

05-07-2013, 00:25

Littlefinger's speech about the ladder of chaos
...................................

Probably my favourite part of the episode!

Empire*Of*Media

05-07-2013, 08:05

Sattlite is Forbidden in our country (Iran)!! :soapbox:
and when its forbidden we cant have cards to unlock the scramble TVs !!!!
Damn to This ISLAMIC Regime !!!!

Hooahguy

05-07-2013, 16:13

You cant watch it online?

rajpoot

05-11-2013, 10:20

Just watched episode number 6. And I do agree. I felt goosebumps during Littlefinger's speech. And during the scene between Thoros, Beric and Melisandre.
The scene between Olenna and Tywin was awesome. I almost thought Olenna would win. And Cersei and Tyrion sharing sorrows. Cersei isn't all that bad honestly. Just stupid. And finally Jon and Ygritte atop the wall, that last scene does not seem to even be from ASoIaF series. The scenery looks more suited to a CS Lewis book or maybe something from JRR Tolkien. All that light and happiness. :tongue:
I don't know if they meant it, but the sunlight and the beautiful landscape far away in stark contrast with the dark cloud above. It's so similar to how their story ends. They never reach the sunlight of their life together.
What I cannot puzzle out is what Melisandre says to Arya. Those might be clues into books that have not come.
Brown eyes. Blue eyes. Green eyes.

LittleGrizzly

05-11-2013, 10:34

The scene between Olenna and Tywin was awesome. I almost thought Olenna would win.

I got that feeling as well, thought he may have finally met his match. The man does seem all powerful, nobody but nobody says no to Tywin.

I just wonder how he would deal with himself... probably end in a fight.

drone

05-12-2013, 03:26

What I cannot puzzle out is what Melisandre says to Arya. Those might be clues into books that have not come.
Brown eyes. Blue eyes. Green eyes.
I think it just means Ayra is eventually going to be killing lots of people. ~D

When Selyse called one of the bottled babies Edric, I figured they were going to merge in Gendry to that story arc. Not too much ground-breaking action in ep6, but it's necessary to breathe after the previous 2 and prep for the next big events.

Hooahguy

05-13-2013, 04:19

Tonights episode was a bit underwhelming, especially the scene with Jamie, Brienne, and the bear.

Paradox

05-13-2013, 09:55

Nice episode, GRRM's writing brought some of the characters back to life, showed their motives and their flaws like in the books. Just a necessary filler and a set up for what's to come.

rajpoot

05-13-2013, 10:29

Tonights episode was a bit underwhelming, especially the scene with Jamie, Brienne, and the bear.

Yup. The only scene of note was Tywin and Joffery. Been waiting for that one since a while.
We could arrange to have you carried
Full of win. :laugh4: Even Tywin is smiling after that.
Also enjoying the Jon-Ygritte chemistry. Too bad about the future.

The Stranger

05-13-2013, 12:37

i cant remember theon getting castrated in the books...

TinCow

05-13-2013, 13:32

i cant remember theon getting castrated in the books...

It's not explicitly stated in the books, but there are a lot of hints dropped about it. Before tonight's episode it was something that was debated by readers. Considering that episode was written by Martin, I think we can accept it as canon.

The Stranger

05-13-2013, 16:57

ok

i was thinking, i know its milking it a bit or alot, but wouldnt it be awesome if they made a movie about Roberts Rebellion :P

burning of the starks, battle at the trident, battle of the bells, jaime killing the mad king, the three against seven at the tower... so many epic scenes!

drone

05-13-2013, 17:36

Tonights episode was a bit underwhelming, especially the scene with Jamie, Brienne, and the bear.

Of course this scene would have been 10x better with Hoat and the gang, but we can't have it all.

Spoonska

05-13-2013, 17:58

I think Hodor doesn't get enough credit. Perhaps it's just among my friends, but I was talking about GoT Saturday night, and everyone was kind of making fun of his character As if he was a joke. Albeit he is a little slow, and can only say one word; but every time he delivers his "Hodor" it's done with perfection. He says everything in that "Hodor". It was even echoed last night with Osha.

Also not sure what it was, but last night episode flew by for me. I thought it was top notch for the most part...The whole bear pit wasn't pulled off well, I agree with what everyone else is saying.

drone

05-13-2013, 20:01

I think Hodor doesn't get enough credit. Perhaps it's just among my friends, but I was talking about GoT Saturday night, and everyone was kind of making fun of his character As if he was a joke. Albeit he is a little slow, and can only say one word; but every time he delivers his "Hodor" it's done with perfection. He says everything in that "Hodor". It was even echoed last night with Osha.

Hodor is the third head of the dragon. Aemon and Ned conspired to move him to Winterfell to hide him from Robert, and told him to play the simpleton. One day show his true awesomeness. :yes:

Mouzafphaerre

05-14-2013, 05:28

I thought it was top notch for the most part

Absolutely! Loved particularly the exchange between Tyrion and his whatshisname :laugh4:

drone

05-14-2013, 23:51

The Stranger

05-15-2013, 00:56

no way the will let cercei kill of loras lol XD what kind of suggestion is that haha

he will probably take the white, and there wont be a wedding between them.

rajpoot

05-15-2013, 01:43

According to the synopsis of the coming episodes;
Tyrion and Sansa will tie the knot in the next one.
We'll also meet Coldhands next episode
And the 9th episode is going to feature the Red wedding, most probably as the climatic scene.
As far as Littlefinger and Lysa are concerned.
I agree it's probably going to happen sometime next season, after Joffery's wedding and demise. He has to take Sansa with him.

Paradox

05-15-2013, 02:00

Alright, time for some baseless speculation:

Will episode 9 be full of weddings? Edmure and Roslin, Tyrion and Sansa, Cersei and Loras, Joffrey and Margaery, Littlefinger and Lysa. We have a backlog, may as well get it all done at once!
I'm fairly certain Joff/Marg will be early next season, the timing of the story just isn't there yet. Shae was hella pissed at Tyrion though. :yes:

I imagine Littlefinger's wedding will be next season as well. The freaky weirdo relationship those two have will need some setup, they haven't had a scene together yet all series.

Not exactly sure what they have planned for Cersei/Loras. In the books Loras is wearing the white at this point, I'm guessing Cersei kills him off to get out of it, but surprises are welcome. Might be something juicy to prep the Cersei/Marg feud coming.

I'm wondering if they do interleaved wedding scenes with the Tyrion/Sansa and Edmure/Roslin ceremonies. Contrasts for effect.
Talisa's pregnant.
She's toast at the RW. Jeyne escaped because she was minus a Stark child, but since the Westerlings were written out of the show I think Talisa is dead girl walking. Shame, nice butt.
The PW might be episode 8, judging from the preview. It would be cool if they wrote the two weddings on the same episode though. GRRM wrote one more scene for this season, which involves Littlefinger and Lysa. Although it's possible they use it on the fourth season premiere.

About Talisa, am I the only one who thinks she's a spy? The way she replied when Robb asked her what she was writing, the fact that it was in a language Tywin happens to know, and just Tywin's recent dismissal of Robb as a threat? If this isn't true, I see Blackfish saving her along with a few other people from the RW.

The Stranger

05-15-2013, 11:36

The PW might be episode 8, judging from the preview. It would be cool if they wrote the two weddings on the same episode though. GRRM wrote one more scene for this season, which involves Littlefinger and Lysa. Although it's possible they use it on the fourth season premiere.

About Talisa, am I the only one who thinks she's a spy? The way she replied when Robb asked her what she was writing, the fact that it was in a language Tywin happens to know, and just Tywin's recent dismissal of Robb as a threat? If this isn't true, I see Blackfish saving her along with a few other people from the RW.

you are probably right and its to be a bit closer to the books as well were it was hinted that the wedding between westerling and robb was orchestrated by tywin

drone

05-15-2013, 12:37

The PW might be episode 8, judging from the preview. It would be cool if they wrote the two weddings on the same episode though. GRRM wrote one more scene for this season, which involves Littlefinger and Lysa. Although it's possible they use it on the fourth season premiere.

About Talisa, am I the only one who thinks she's a spy? The way she replied when Robb asked her what she was writing, the fact that it was in a language Tywin happens to know, and just Tywin's recent dismissal of Robb as a threat? If this isn't true, I see Blackfish saving her along with a few other people from the RW.
The reason I think the RW is ep9, the episode name is "The Rains of Castamere".

It's possible Talisa is a spy sent in by Tywin. But if she really is pregnant, she's toast.

Hooahguy

05-20-2013, 04:50

Good episode tonight, really enjoyed Tyrions spat with Joff and his dad- "and now my watch begins." Priceless.
And our favorite pair of boobs made a long awaited appearance, so that was nice.

I dont know how Im going to wait for the next episode in 2 weeks.
As someone who read the books and know whats going to happen, I really should record the reaction of my friends who didnt read the books when they get to the RW.

rajpoot

05-20-2013, 19:36

All the wedding and post wedding party scenes were good. Specially Olenna Tyrell figuring out the relations and Tywin talking to Tyrion about performance issues. :laugh:
Also this is probably the first time I actually found a scene with Samwell Tarly interesting.
Were the ravens cawing to summon the other to where Sam and Gilly were? Since Bran has not yet crossed beyond the wall, we can assume that Bryden Rivers is controlling the ravens. If both these things are true then that means he is in league with the Others and Bran too will actually be helping them later on. Which means Melisandre's vision of a, “wooden face, corpse white” with a thousand red eyes, accompanied by a boy with a wolf’s face, who she believes is a servant of the Great Other is accurate. So many questions. :on_crazymad:

Hooahguy

06-03-2013, 02:57

Well, that was intense.

Ice

06-03-2013, 03:30

Well, that was intense.

Yeah that was pretty brutal. The silent credits were an excellent touch.

Greyblades

06-03-2013, 06:03

...Damn...

naut

06-03-2013, 08:33

Unfortunately I already knew due to accidentally seeing spoilers on a GoT world map. But, still R.R. Martin is a sadist. =(

rajpoot

06-03-2013, 08:39

Very graphic.
Specially how they kill Talisa.
And I was wrong. This is a lot worse than when Ned Stark loses his head.
And where the hell was Greatjon Umber!

Jolt

06-03-2013, 08:54

Jesus Christ.

Strike For The South

06-03-2013, 15:56

I'm gonna throw up

TinCow

06-03-2013, 18:04

Pure win:
https://twitter.com/RedWeddingTears

Beskar

06-03-2013, 18:28

What they don't get is that next weeks will be better. If it is what I think it is.

TinCow

06-03-2013, 18:33

What they don't get is that next weeks will be better. If it is what I think it is.

I'm not quite as sure anymore about whether they'll show that next week or not. I expected that to be the season-ender and a nice cliffhanger, but I saw nothing in the previews that looked like even one shot from the scene in question. It still seems like the logical point at which to end this season, but I expected to see at least one random shot in the preview of what should be a relatively long segment if that event is to actually occur next episode.

Beskar

06-03-2013, 18:36

I'm not quite as sure anymore about whether they'll show that next week or not. I expected that to be the season-ender and a nice cliffhanger, but I saw nothing in the previews that looked like even one shot from the scene in question. It still seems like the logical point at which to end this season, but I expected to see at least one random shot in the preview of what should be a relatively long segment if that event is to actually occur next episode.

True. Though I bet Jaime will finally be home. Probably the only thing majorly that would occur.

I think next season will have the rest of the weddings, burnings, horn blowing and perhaps even get to see some Dorne action.

Xiahou

06-03-2013, 18:39

Pure win:
https://twitter.com/RedWeddingTears
One of my favorite tweets...
"Game of Thrones = mind bottling"
Mind. Bottling. Couldn't agree more. :laugh4:

Beskar

06-03-2013, 18:59

Just for those who didn't realise it at first... that song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmRWVZ5ny0I

That song was too fitting for the occasion.

rajpoot

06-03-2013, 19:13

True. Though I bet Jaime will finally be home. Probably the only thing majorly that would occur.

I think next season will have the rest of the weddings, burnings, horn blowing and perhaps even get to see some Dorne action.

If Jamie gets back next episode

How will they handle Joffery's wedding and Tyrion's arrest.....

Also, does anyone else notice that Daario Naharis commands the Second Sons in the TV series.
So they seem to have cut out Brown Ben Plumm.
Does this mean that Daario will betray Danaerys in the show? And where will Tyrion end up....?

Hooahguy

06-03-2013, 19:29

If Jamie gets back next episode

How will they handle Joffery's wedding and Tyrion's arrest.....

Also, does anyone else notice that Daario Naharis commands the Second Sons in the TV series.
So they seem to have cut out Brown Ben Plumm.
Does this mean that Daario will betray Danaerys in the show? And where will Tyrion end up....?
Season 3 was only the first half of the Storm of Swords book. Joffs wedding will be in season 4.

Beskar

06-03-2013, 19:38

Season 3 was only the first half of the Storm of Swords book. Joffs wedding will be in season 4.

Hah, I keep forgetting what is in what book.

drone

06-03-2013, 20:40

It's too soon for Joffrey's wedding. I figured the Yunkai attack would be next week, but they handwaved that so I don't really know how they are going to end the season. I guess Jon Snow at Castle Black, Coldhands, plus some Lannister gloating and other filler. :shrug:

Michelle Fairley did a wonderful job as it all unravelled before her. Roose Bolton shows his true colors. Blackfish takes an oppurtune moment to urinate. Ygritte as a woman scorned. Rickon speaks!

It's going to be interesting to see how they handle the next two seasons.
They will be introducing a lot of new characters (Dorne, Iron Isles threads) to replace the ones being killed off. The actors better be chosen wisely, as they will need to replace main players that viewers got very attached to. Personally, I don't have a clue how they are going to handle A Feast For Crows, there is a lot of filler that doesn't stand up to the epicness of the first 3 books.

Hooahguy

06-03-2013, 21:24

I have a feeling that they are going to abbreviate AFFC as it is quite boring, possibly integrate it with ADWD. Though GRRM better get to finishing book 6, he only has another 2-3 years before the show outpaces the books, and that would present a big problem.

TinCow

06-03-2013, 21:47

I have a feeling that they are going to abbreviate AFFC as it is quite boring, possibly integrate it with ADWD.

They have to integrate them, there's no other possibility. They can't just spend an entire season showing only half the cast, then go back and do the other half the next season. It worked poorly enough in book form, it would be a disaster on television.

rickinator9

06-03-2013, 22:08

For me this is proof that Catelyn is even more stupid.
First freeing up Jamie. Now not throwing the knive at the bad guy when she had the chance.

Alexander the Pretty Good

06-03-2013, 22:26

She's a noblewoman, not a ninja.

rickinator9

06-03-2013, 23:02

She could have tried.

The Stranger

06-03-2013, 23:06

She's retarded, not a ninja.

fixed.

drone

06-03-2013, 23:17

It wouldn't have made any difference. She and Robb would still be dead, and Walder Frey has many sons.
Besides, I haven't done the math but freeing Jaime is probably a net positive for her when everything plays out. Jaime would have been either killed by the Karstarks, or freed after the wedding with both hands and no soul-searching. Frey was going to get his revenge, one way or another, the only wildcard being what role the Karstark men would play.

Rains of Castamere, now on the list of songs nobody wants to hear at a wedding. ~D

Hooahguy

06-04-2013, 01:10

For me this is proof that Catelyn is even more stupid.
First freeing up Jamie. Now not throwing the knive at the bad guy when she had the chance.

Freeing Jaime was a good thing. Otherwise he would have never lost his hand and wouldnt have, as Drone said, grown a conscience.

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

06-04-2013, 01:34

Freeing Jaime was a good thing. Otherwise he would have never lost his hand and wouldnt have, as Drone said, grown a conscience.

But Karstark would not have gone nuts, and Rob would still be alive.

This, for me, was where it fell off a cliff - I struggled on for two more books before I gave up, but it just got worse.

My major problem with GRRM is that although his characters do have depth he kills them off, or has them act against character, in service to his over-arching plot.

we're repeatedly told how wise Catelyn is, but she repeatedly acts like a munchkin on acid - even insanity doesn't cover some of her actions - and her relationship with Jon simply isn't credible.

Ned's fate in the first book is dramatic and fitting, even if it comes about because he acts against character, but the further in you go the more jarring the divide between character path and action becomes.

In book one, Ned's character up to Robert's death dictates he tell Robert the truth, and then deal with the fallout and prevent Robert having the Lion bastards killed. This is exactly how Ned has operated throughout the book - do the honourable thing, do the next honourable thing. But in the last few chapters Ned SUDDENLY decides to lie to his friend and king, forge his will, and try to bribe the watch. He winds up dead.

You could write that one example off as a single man cracking, but it is repeated over and over, and more crudely each time. By the time we get to Prince Oberon's death and Tyrian exile it's less character driving plot and more contrivance. Even Rob's death is a precise confluence of convenient circumstances that beggars even a devout man's belief in providence. The producers must agree, because they wrote the Westerlings out - which will be interesting given that I suspect GRRM wasn't done putting Jaine through the wringer.

Jolt

06-04-2013, 02:01

She's a noblewoman, not a ninja.

Oda Nobunaga: "What's the difference?"

Hooahguy

06-04-2013, 02:10

But Karstark would not have gone nuts, and Rob would still be alive.
Theoretically yes, but who is to say that Karstark wouldnt have killed Jaime himself? We dont know. But you are definitely correct that the Red Wedding had a much lower chance of it occurring had Jamie stayed lock up.

drone

06-04-2013, 02:48

Greyblades

06-04-2013, 07:58

But Karstark would not have gone nuts, and Rob would still be alive.Would he? I think he would have just gone nuts on jamie instead of the two kids. Rob would have executed karstark for that just as easily so there'd be the same net result, just minus Jamie.

we're repeatedly told how wise Catelyn is, but she repeatedly acts like a munchkin on acid - even insanity doesn't cover some of her actions - and her relationship with Jon simply isn't credible.Personally I take a different tack, she is normally quite wise and this was so before the events of the books, but after brandons fall she starts going nuts and throughout the series she goes from: having enough wisdom to make the right decisions regularly, to: having enough to not go bug-splat insane.
I half suspect a less wise person would have become a gibbering wreck after what she went through, that she became mistake prone actually makes me think she got off light.

You could write that one example off as a single man cracking, but it is repeated over and over, and more crudely each time. By the time we get to Prince Oberon's death and Tyrian exile it's less character driving plot and more contrivance. Even Rob's death is a precise confluence of convenient circumstances that beggars even a devout man's belief in providence.
Well, yeah, in moments of high emotion an stress people crack, when they crack they act out of character and/or make mistakes and in the game of thrones unless someone's covering for you those mistakes get you killed.

edyzmedieval

06-04-2013, 13:28

I've never ever seen so much rage directed at a TV show ever, half of the stuff on Twitter and Facebook is about Game of Thrones.

The Stranger

06-04-2013, 13:42

people have issues.

drone

06-04-2013, 15:21

A slightly deranged man recently said, "If you thought this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention!" :yes:

Martin said that he was going to go somewhere without internet for a week after this episode.

Arjos

06-04-2013, 20:45

Finally got around watching the episode and I hummed the rains with glee throughout the whole scene ^^

Btw people's reactions are priceless :P
Now I'm actually starting to think, that when the producers said they wanted to do the serie up to this point at least, they probably meant that in the aftermath the audience would just rage quit watching it XDDDDDD

LittleGrizzly

06-05-2013, 00:18

Loved the last episode... didn't see that coming at all...

Incredible.

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

06-05-2013, 01:06

Jaime was going to die the night Catelyn sent him off with Brienne, he had just killed Rickard's son in an escape attempt. Rickard was already nuts, having already lost 2(?) sons to the Kingslayer in the battle. The Karstarks would have killed him, and Robb would have had to have taken Rickard's head that much sooner. Robb was stuck either way, and Catelyn just wanted her daughters back alive.

Karstark said it best, "You lost the war the day you married her". With the Freys on their side, they would have had the manpower and free movement across the riverlands.

I happen to dissagree.

Rob lost the War when he listened to Catelyn and gave Bolton command of the Foot rather than the Greatjohn.

The Greatjon was loyal - Bolton was a known sado-massicist and frankly, it makes no sense that his family still hold the Dreadfort, given that one of his ancestors apparently flayed a Stark. Rob's instinct to give the command to the Greatjohn and keep Bolton with him was correct. The Foot was always going to lead, so what was required of them was a berserk charge and then a commander capable of holding them together afterwards through sheer force of will.

Remember, Bolton was undermining Rob long before the Red Wedding, wasting troops, ceding ground, overstretching.

Remember, Catelyn was also the one who agreed that, frankly, ludicrous bargain with the Freys. Walder Frey had no right to expect the KING to marry one of his daughters during a war, or to pledge to one. Either Catelyn herself, and Sansa, should have been apple inducement, or Edmure. Again, Catelyn's advice to take the deal was wrong. If Rob had refused and offered less, Frey would have taken it. Given their propensity to breed Walder Frey would have been able to calculate that being Uncle to the next King would have put his line more than close enough to the throne to seize it after the War.

It was also Catelyn who caused Jon to the be sent to the Watch, depriving Rob of a capable Herald and reliable bodyguard, even a titular Commander to replace Bolton.

The only instance where Catelyn was correct was regarding Theon, but even there a lack of her malign influence might have made Theon loyal enough to refuse his father - something he clearly did consider.

Alexander the Pretty Good

06-05-2013, 01:54

Remember, Catelyn was also the one who agreed that, frankly, ludicrous bargain with the Freys.

What was the alternative? The Freys had him over a barrel, and if Robb either kept it in his pants or just ditched Jeyne (or really, even kept her as a mistress) it would've been fine. Walder could've comfortably sat out the war if he didn't feel like haggling, and marrying one of his daughters isn't that crazy. Although they are not the head family in the Riverlands, they basically match the Tullys in strength.

It was also Catelyn who caused Jon to the be sent to the Watch,
lolwut

but even there a lack of her malign influence might have made Theon loyal enough to refuse his father - something he clearly did consider.
Jeez did Catelyn do 9/11 too?

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

06-05-2013, 03:30

What was the alternative? The Freys had him over a barrel, and if Robb either kept it in his pants or just ditched Jeyne (or really, even kept her as a mistress) it would've been fine. Walder could've comfortably sat out the war if he didn't feel like haggling, and marrying one of his daughters isn't that crazy. Although they are not the head family in the Riverlands, they basically match the Tullys in strength.

Rob could have laid siege to the Twins.

Contrary to Catelyn's view, Frey did not hold all the cards.

lolwut

Ned wanted to leave Jon at Winterfell, Catelyn refused to have him and Ned couldn't take him to King's Landing - the original plan was to set Jon up with a Holdfast on the New Gift, which had been abandoned by the Watch. It's mentioned in one of the later books.

Remember, Catelyn can't stand Jon, she hates him, she's always hated him. The little bit about her sitting up with him when he had a fever isn't in the books - she's about three times the bitch she is in the series.

Alexander the Pretty Good

06-05-2013, 12:02

Rob could have laid siege to the Twins.
Due to the way that the castles are on both sides of the river, Robb would've needed to cross the river somewhere else to conduct a successful siege - which would defeat the point of the whole operation. He needed to get across in a timely fashion to destroy one of the Lannister armies before it met up with the other. Besieging the towers or just trying to find another crossing would make it impossible to do that.

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

06-05-2013, 13:01

Due to the way that the castles are on both sides of the river, Robb would've needed to cross the river somewhere else to conduct a successful siege - which would defeat the point of the whole operation. He needed to get across in a timely fashion to destroy one of the Lannister armies before it met up with the other. Besieging the towers or just trying to find another crossing would make it impossible to do that.

Only true if you define "successful" as "reduction of the stronghold" - in this case investment of one side would close the crossing, depriving the Freys of their primary source of income and means to pay their army. Walder would then be in a precarious position because he has created his own Byzantine court - he keeps it in line by picking the winning side.

It's not a question of Rob being able to beat him - it's a question of him being able to make life more unpleasant than Walder can tolerate.

Agreeing to put all your dynastic eggs in one basket is, strategically speaking, too much for an army and a river crossing. Rob would have nothing left to offer, say, the Tyrells or the Ironborn.

The Stranger

06-05-2013, 14:17

there is no singular reason why robb was doomed.

there were a few

-he gave slight to the gods by breaking his vows > freys turned sides
-he got betrayed by theon and lost the north and more importantly his heirs
-he did not deal with the karstark/jaime/catelyn matter appropriately

all these things together, he was losing the war because his men were dwindling, he could not strike at tywin because Edmure tried to be a hero, so bolton added up 1+1 and decided it was time to turn cloaks. he wouldnt have if the North was winning. The freys are just crazy but I doubt he would have killed Robb if he didnt realise that the boy was lost.

TinCow

06-05-2013, 18:53

Robb was doomed because he was not a main character to the long-term story arc. GRRM's trick was making us think he was, just like he did with Ned. The true main characters are immune to death until the final book. Namely:

Tyrion
Jon (Does anyone seriously believe he's dead?)
Dany
Bran

The Stranger

06-06-2013, 09:06

yes... ofcourse, if you go meta like that sure. you studied literature for sure no? XD

TinCow

06-06-2013, 12:48

yes... ofcourse, if you go meta like that sure. you studied literature for sure no? XD

Nope, history. I just find it a bit odd to argue about what a fictitious character could have done differently to change their fate.

Papewaio

06-06-2013, 13:18

I've been reading the book series since they launched. Most fantasy series start with the orphan raised by a relative who teaches them some great tricks or they inherit a magic item ie Luke Skywalker raised by his uncle, Frodo is also adopted, as is Rand al'Thor and many more.

All GRRM has done has started at the pre-orphaning stage for some of the characters. Some are already orphans being raised by uncles. Some like the mother of dragons are more along those archetypes.

Jon Snow is in all likelihood Ned's sisters child. It does not make sense for a poor fisher woman to give gold to look after a noblemans bastard. So either he is a heir to the Dragons or the Deers.

My wife started reading the books after a friend of hers started raving about the TV series. Our new born daughter was named after one of the characters. I'll let you guess which one at your leisure.

Visor

06-06-2013, 13:23

Spoilers: Jon Snow isn't dead, Azor Azhai and all that. Probably Rhaegar and Lyanna's child.

drone

06-06-2013, 20:20

OK, best Red Wedding reaction video on the web (link, not embedded due to scene's bloody throat slashing. so umm, yeah, some violence/gore)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6AjgR7D3yg

Bravo! :applause:

Visor

06-10-2013, 13:40

Got linked this on facebook.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbEhByk4Icg

johnhughthom

06-10-2013, 19:44

My wife started reading the books after a friend of hers started raving about the TV series. Our new born daughter was named after one of the characters. I'll let you guess which one at your leisure.

Arya?

Beskar

06-10-2013, 20:58

True. Though I bet Jaime will finally be home. Probably the only thing majorly that would occur.

Got it right :thumbsup:

rajpoot

06-11-2013, 20:41

So season finale....
Not big on action, but lot of big decisions to set the story for the next season. Tywin and Tyrion were awesome as usual. For once I regret Tywin gets killed. I'll miss watching him stare people into submission
Next Arya and the Hound. Full of win.
And it all ends with Dany the rockstar :clown:

drone

06-11-2013, 21:46

The Ramsay Bolton scene was hilarious. "You think I'm some sort of savage?" :laugh4: As was Tywin, sending Joffrey to bed without supper. And did anyone else notice the gasps from the ladies when Podrick went to summon Tyrion to the Small Council? His reputation precedes him!

So no big reveals, mainly just clean up and character positioning, but I think they had fun with it.
I guess next season gets us Coldhands, Stoneheart, and Oberyn. The Littlefinger and Lysa love story should be amusing, we get Joffrey's wedding, the war at the Wall, and Dany at Meereen. I'm thinking they might need to go a little past A Storm of Swords for next season, there might not be enough good stuff left to cover 10 episodes.

Spoonska

06-12-2013, 13:19

Compared to The Walking Dead finale; Game of Thrones gets a Bajillion/10

The Stranger

06-13-2013, 10:52

Arya?

obviously Eddard.

Papewaio

06-13-2013, 12:44

Arya?

Correct.

FoxLeLay

06-13-2013, 18:02

I LOVE this show. One of the best shows on TV today in my opinion.

What do you guys think of Game of Thrones .vs LoTR however?

johnhughthom

06-13-2013, 18:05

In terms of books vs books, tv show vs movies, or just general lore vs lore?

FoxLeLay

06-13-2013, 18:13

TV show .vs. movies and the lore .vs. lore.

Beskar

06-13-2013, 18:24

The Stranger

06-15-2013, 13:47

Correct.

damn :S i had all my money on Neddard :S

The Stranger

06-15-2013, 13:57

TV show .vs. movies and the lore .vs. lore.

in its scope i think LotR (if you include Silmarillion and the Hobbit) is unprecedented. But it is a pretty straight black and white story of good and evil, in that sense Got/SoIaF appeals to me more because alot of times you get new info that can completely change your view of a character. It is more grey. What I like about both is that in magic is pretty much relegated to the background and is of secondary importance (more so in GoT/SoIaF, but even in LotR, Gandalf the mighty wizard often fights with his sword). All in all, i'd say that LotR is the better/bigger Epic, while GoT/SoIaF is the better intrigue/thriller. Im a fan of both.

As for the movies/series, I'd rule more clearly in favor of the LotR movies, almost completely because of the awesome and huge battlescenes in 2 and 3. But for a series GoT is awesome!

rajpoot

06-15-2013, 14:30

TinCow

06-15-2013, 18:44

GoT has no lore to speak of. It has some 'recent-history', but compared to LotR, the mythos is as good as non-existent and what is there is an unexplained, confusing wreck. At least up until now.
Hopefully with the winding up of the stories some of the mysteries will be cleared up.

If you're talking about the show, absolutely true. If you're talking about the books, I vehemently disagree. The world of Ice and Fire has vastly more lore and depth to it than all of Tolkien's books combined.

Hooahguy

06-15-2013, 19:40

If you're talking about the show, absolutely true. If you're talking about the books, I vehemently disagree. The world of Ice and Fire has vastly more lore and depth to it than all of Tolkien's books combined.
I dont know if I would say a lot more lore, but definitely comparable. And of course the TV show doesnt go into a lot of lore, they simply dont have time for that as they already have to fit in the current event stuff.

rajpoot

06-16-2013, 12:27

If you're talking about the show, absolutely true. If you're talking about the books, I vehemently disagree. The world of Ice and Fire has vastly more lore and depth to it than all of Tolkien's books combined.

OK, as far as I know GoT lore is limited to -
First men come and kill Children of the Forest who spent their time battling giants.
The Others come and kill both the First men and Children of the Forest.
Some unknown hero either from Asshai or Westros somehow manages to kill others. Variations of the legend involve the sword Lightbringer.
Andals come and subjugate first men.
Meanwhile on the other side of the world the Ghiscari Empire is doing something. Then something is happening in Valariya. Ghiscari and Valariya keep fighting. Somewhere in between the Faceless Men begin their work in the tunnels of Valariya.
Ghiscari empire falls. Doom come to Valariya. (What the 'Doom' is is never explained).
Aegon subjugates the Andals and unites the seven kingdoms.

Add to this a few odd tales pertaining to the various great houses about Brandon the Builder and whichever Lannister lost the Valariyan sword Brightroar et cetra and some vague prophesies about the Prince that was promised, Azor Azhai, the Old Gods and R'hllor and that's basically the extent of GoT lore.
Tolkien on the other hand has an entire alternate mythology in his books. Maybe when GRRM finishes the entire story and he explains everything about the Great Other and such similar mysteries he'll have something comparable, but until then everything is too much of a mess.

Visor

06-16-2013, 13:02

the Prince that was promised

Ser Pounce, the Puss that was Promised.

johnhughthom

06-16-2013, 20:29

Isn't Cersei's generally the puss that gets promised?

The Stranger

06-16-2013, 23:53

anyone noticed how arya killed the frey soldier? its how she killed the guard at harrenhal in the books :P

TinCow

06-17-2013, 13:52

Add to this a few odd tales pertaining to the various great houses about Brandon the Builder and whichever Lannister lost the Valariyan sword Brightroar et cetra and some vague prophesies about the Prince that was promised, Azor Azhai, the Old Gods and R'hllor and that's basically the extent of GoT lore.
Tolkien on the other hand has an entire alternate mythology in his books. Maybe when GRRM finishes the entire story and he explains everything about the Great Other and such similar mysteries he'll have something comparable, but until then everything is too much of a mess.

There is an unbelievable amount of depth to the lore and history of the Ice and Fire universe over the previous 500 years or so; pretty much everything since the Targaryian invasion of Westros. The amount of detail on the houses, their histories, and their actions is very very deep. I am including the Dunk & Egg novellas as part of this lore, btw. You are correct that all of the really old stuff is very vague, but I believe that is intentional. That stuff has actively been forgotten by most people living. With the exceptions of some northmen, people in Westros actively believe that all that stuff is myth and legend. Hell, when the books start magic itself is popularly thought to be a myth as well because it had been gone for so long. Tolkein created a world in which immense magical beings live for eons and never forget anything. Martin created a world populated almost exclusively by humans, and humans die quickly and forget easily. Just look at the library at Castle Black. That right there is a storehouse of massive amounts of knowledge about the history of Westros, but no one cares about it. That's why you don't hear much about the Andals or the First Men. People living in the Ice and Fire universe simply don't care, at least not yet. That's not a fault of the writer, that's intentional and it's one of the things that helps to build the world. If you want to compare the Ice and Fire lore to Middle Earth lore, pretend that all of your Middle Earth lore has to be learned from the Hobbits.

In any case, I far more enjoy Martin's very rich recent history than Tolkein's amorphous irrelevant legends. The history that Martin gives us is detailed, explains how the various characters in the world got to where they are now, why alliances exist, and why certain place names are significant. Having read the entire Ice and Fire series, you can look at a map of Westros and know something interesting about pretty much every little town and castle on the map. The same cannot be said for Middle Earth.

The Stranger

06-17-2013, 17:16

thats not really true either, if you read the hobbit and silmarrilion you can do pretty much the same for middle earth, but as you say it is a different approach chosen by each writer. martin has his lore become available through the eyes of the humans living in Westeros, while Tolkien made the lore and legends available as stories in themself which you can read about in the appendix or in other books.

Mouzafphaerre

09-24-2013, 17:27

So, I sat and read the books in a craze. I still think this show is one of the best literary adaptations ever, with the absolute exception of Russian productions...

What I dislike is melodramatization...

I don't like the faithful Shae character invented for the show. Not a single bit. I don't like Edric Storm cut out and the smith Gendry magnified. Melisandre out to get him amongst the myriad of foes etc. :no:

I would rather have Missandei as the 8 yo child than the brown chick. We have enough meat in the show.:

Still, all of that weigh little against my enthusiasm :2thumbsup:

I refuse to believe that Jon is dead, be it just a denial... I don't think Stannis is dead either, the bastard is merely bluffing.

Expectedly we'll have some action on Skagos with Davos and Rickon.

I'm curious about what Danny & Drogon will do with the renegade Khal. A bbq would be in order but maybe they can be put to some use.

rajpoot

09-24-2013, 18:35

About the excess of meat, hey, it's HBO :tongue:

Also welcome to the fold. Now you can wait with the rest of us for GRRM to finish writing the next book and keep your fingers crossed that he does it in this decade. :clown:

rajpoot

01-13-2014, 15:44

First trailer for Season 4. While I have been unable to enjoy it fully due to my :daisy: connection, no reason others should wait;
Also first glimpse of the Red Viper.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZY43QSx3Fk

Beskar

01-13-2014, 17:26

First trailer for Season 4. While I have been unable to enjoy it fully due to my :daisy: connection, no reason others should wait;

It is mostly that youtube buffering change, where it only downloads a pre-set amount then it 'stops' and takes a little while for it to start again. So when I load, I get few seconds all perfect then it stops to buffer, then it decides to download a few more seconds, then it starts again, till the buffer hit that point in time ahead, then stops, then the video catches up and hits that point before it decides to continue to download again.

Sp4

01-13-2014, 17:59

It is mostly that youtube buffering change, where it only downloads a pre-set amount then it 'stops' and takes a little while for it to start again. So when I load, I get few seconds all perfect then it stops to buffer, then it decides to download a few more seconds, then it starts again, till the buffer hit that point in time ahead, then stops, then the video catches up and hits that point before it decides to continue to download again.

It isn't a problem if you have a fast internet connection, so yeah. It could be because of shit connection.

Beskar

01-14-2014, 18:15

It isn't a problem if you have a fast internet connection, so yeah. It could be because of shit connection.

You mean, 50mb/s is not fast?

Problem is probably the connection being too fast, as it takes less than a second to download to the 'buffer halt' mark for youtube, which stalls the downloading. It is a thing they implemented to 'save money' but it does cause a lot of inconvenience for the user.

Because you cannot simply 'pause' to let a clip or movie fully download either, since it only downloads to a certain point.

rajpoot

01-14-2014, 18:35

Actually my connection is only 512 Kbps, and that is on good days. Youtube might have problems but mine rise from my ISP. :sweatdrop:
And the worst part is that's the best non-commercial connection I can get.

Fisherking

01-15-2014, 11:11

I think we should set up a betting pool on whether GRRM actually writes the last two books before the screenwriters get there.

Kagemusha

01-15-2014, 14:01

Cant wait for the season 4 to begin..

rajpoot

01-15-2014, 15:46

I think we should set up a betting pool on whether GRRM actually writes the last two books before the screenwriters get there.

I remember seeing a detailed analysis as to how he would have 7-8 years tops to finish the remaining two books if he even wants to just finish with the series. Does not look good for him considering the track record.
Then again I really don't see him allowing the TV series to finish the story before him. It will be bad for business.

Andres

01-15-2014, 15:51

I remember seeing a detailed analysis as to how he would have 7-8 years tops to finish the remaining two books if he even wants to just finish with the series. Does not look good for him considering the track record.
Then again I really don't see him allowing the TV series to finish the story before him. It will be bad for business.

I vaguel recall GRRM having stated that if he dies before he finishes the books, nobody will be allowed to continue working on the books after his demise, but that the people who are making the tv series know the plotlines and will continue making seasons until the story is finished.

rajpoot

01-15-2014, 19:21

I vaguel recall GRRM having stated that if he dies before he finishes the books, nobody will be allowed to continue working on the books after his demise, but that the people who are making the tv series know the plotlines and will continue making seasons until the story is finished.

I remember reading that too. in fact IIRC he said that he had already told the important plot points of the ending he had in mind to the top people making the TV series. But I don't think he will let them do that as long as he lives. GRRM is kind of touchy about his work. Look at how he opposes fanfic.

Hooahguy

01-15-2014, 19:27

I know that writers cannot concentrate all their time on a series but it does concern me that GRRM has all of these side projects, seemingly leaving the main one by the wayside for the time being.

Beskar

01-15-2014, 20:07

I am still waiting for Lord Tyrell to be cast by Kagemusha though, I think he re-enacted the role well. Not seen him at all in the series as of yet.

drone

01-15-2014, 20:25

I think we should set up a betting pool on whether GRRM actually writes the last two books before the screenwriters get there.

We should be able to generate a timeline. Season 4 is going to cover the 2nd half of ASoS, and probably a taste of AFfC. The TV series will probably maintain chronological pacing, so I assume Seasons 5 and 6 will cover AFfC and ADwD intermixed. Depending on pacing, I imagine Season 7 will finish AFfC and ADwD and end with the cliffhangers near the start of TWoW. I'm guessing The Winds of Winter gets published in late 2015-early 2016, which will be before the TV series gets there. But I don't see it happening for A Dream of Spring. The time between novels has grown after each one, it took 6 years to get ADwD out, so unless it's easier to clean up the loose ends I can't see the 7th book being out before a Season 9 premiere (spring 2019, which I think would be the latest they could push the storyline out).

Kagemusha

01-15-2014, 20:33

@Tiaexz (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=32704). Mace has been cast: http://winteriscoming.net/2013/07/roger-ashton-griffiths-cast-as-mace-tyrell/

But that gentleman is far too pretty to re- enact yours truly. :clown: In any case i am happy to see more Tyrell´s during season 4 as we never got any insight from them in the books. :yes:

Andres

01-16-2014, 13:09

I know that writers cannot concentrate all their time on a series but it does concern me that GRRM has all of these side projects, seemingly leaving the main one by the wayside for the time being.

It gives the impression that he's bored with his own work. How can he no like it and how can he possibly not be craving for more?

Has he ever read his own books?

Hooahguy

01-20-2014, 03:40

It gives the impression that he's bored with his own work. How can he no like it and how can he possibly not be craving for more?

Has he ever read his own books?
Considering he knows how it ends, Im not surprised. This series has been going on for almost 2 decades, it would be hard not to be bored at least a little. Still distressing though that hes not devoting 100% of his time to the series, he also directs a number of the episodes so that is a distraction.

Neric

01-20-2014, 08:02

rajpoot

01-20-2014, 09:51

I believe that it has become more work and less fun for Martin to continue the series. There are so many boundaries because of the existing books, so that his creativity is somewhat limited. He might know how the story ends, but getting there with new ideas within the frame of the story so far, could be more of a grind for him.
I hope I'm wrong, however...

I for one would be fine if he does not put in any new ideas but just ties up the lose ends. It should not be very hard to do as long as he has planned ahead (which I am certain a writer of his caliber must have) and does not write himself into corners.
Also while it might be his writing style to digress from what appears to be the main story and going off on tangents, at this point he should probably think of trimming things down and keeping them more 'to-the-point'. As much as I enjoy obscure characters and lore, I doubt he will be able to wrap them all up properly. For instance I doubt we shall ever hear of the Lord Godric Borell of the Sisters again and yet GRRM devoted more than a few pages to him. That bit did little in the sense of character development or story progression. Just gave us some nice back lore about Ned Stark and his cool one liners. At this point though all that can be done away with. He really needs to start trimming down on these minor characters and tying up lose ends.