View Full Version : Stereo equipment
I'm not sure most people even own a stereo anymore. In my day (caution - Old Fart at large) we didn't have PCs, all the guys compared turntables and amps, not video cards and monitors. Anyway...
I'm "re-building" my stereo setup in light of the new remastered Pink Floyd collection due out in a few months. The first question is: is there any difference in CD players? Does a $30 piece of poop spit out the same quality of binary goodness as a $250 Harman-Kardon? Is a 1 and 0 not a 1 and a 0 no matter who it is expressed at the source?
Also, does anyone here have Klipsh speakers? Thinking of getting a nice bookshelf set. Any speaker suggestions in general. I checked on some audio-freak sites but they all wail about $5000 speakers from companies I've never heard of. I'm looking for a "high-end" set of bookshelf speakers. I have a set of Bose 201s, and they are good, but I want something with more fidelity. I'll keep the 201s to build up a 5.1 system with the better speakers I get.
I have the cheap (though new) Yamaha surround sound amp. I don't know if it is worth getting a better one or if I should spend all of my limited cash on speakers.
Anyway, if there are any audiophiles in The Frontroom, would love to hear from you. :sunny:
The first question is: is there any difference in CD players? Does a $30 piece of poop spit out the same quality of binary goodness as a $250 Harman-Kardon? Is a 1 and 0 not a 1 and a 0 no matter who it is expressed at the source?
Of course you're right, the binary information does not change. Where people get persnickety, and where things get expensive, is in the digital-to-analog converter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital-to-analog_converter). These really do make a difference. However, there's no guarantee that the $300 Harmon Kardon isn't using the same DAC that the $100 Sony sports. This is where reading and research come into play. Best thing would be to take a pair of headphones you really trust and listen to different CD players at a higher-end audio place. Note also that most HiFi stores have a stock of repaired or returned equipment. If you're looking for audiophile on the cheap, that ain't a bad way to go.
Also, does anyone here have Klipsh speakers? Thinking of getting a nice bookshelf set.
Klipsh speakers range from very good to very bad. Again, I would strongly recommend you find a place where you can hear them for yourself.
Anyway, if there are any audiophiles in The Frontroom, would love to hear from you. :sunny:
I'm a cheap imitation of an audiophile. Cursed with good ears, which means I can really hear when a system is not giving me the music, but also cursed with a strong sense of budget.
I used to frequent the Saturday Audio Exchange (http://www.saturdayaudio.com/), a place where you could pick up $2000 speakers for $200. Don't know if they're still the scene, though.
Oh, wait a minute. You want bookshelf speakers? I have a pair of amazing bookshelf speakers that I'm not using anymore. They're kinda power-hungry, so you need a good amp, but I grabbed them from Saturday Audio Exchange some years ago when I found out they were top-of-the-line BBC studio speakers repackaged as a failed American experiment. I could ship them to you, and if they still work, you could toss me whatever feels right in cash. They've given me years of audiophile comfort, and I'd like to see them in a good home.
Of course you're right, the binary information does not change. Where people get persnickety, and where things get expensive, is in the digital-to-analog converter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital-to-analog_converter). These really do make a difference. However, there's no guarantee that the $300 Harmon Kardon isn't using the same DAC that the $100 Sony sports. This is where reading and research come into play. Best thing would be to take a pair of headphones you really trust and listen to different CD players at a higher-end audio place. Note also that most HiFi stores have a stock of repaired or returned equipment. If you're looking for audiophile on the cheap, that ain't a bad way to go.
Definitely doing this on the cheap. I have some cash but I need to spend it wisely. Thanks for the info on the DAC. I'm going to read up on that.
My Yamaha surround amp is Dolby Digital DTS, does that make a difference? Is there a particular wire I should use from the CD player to the amp or just the standard RCA jacks?
Klipsh speakers range from very good to very bad. Again, I would strongly recommend you find a place where you can hear them for yourself.
I guess there is no other reasonable way to go. Just trying to narrow the options a bit. I don't mind choosing between a few kinds, but if it turns into Baskin-Robins with 31 flavours of speakers, I get dumb real fast and end up walking out with vanilla or nothing at all.
I'm a cheap imitation of an audiophile. Cursed with good ears, which means I can really hear when a system is not giving me the music, but also cursed with a strong sense of budget.
I resemble that remark. I'm a cheap imitation of an audiophile with one completely deaf ear and the other somewhat sabotaged by fifteen-years of chainsaws. So while I like good sound, I'm not really sure just how much good sound I hear compared to others. On the plus side, less expensive equipment is probably a perfect match for me.
I do think my Bose 201s, though good, are not good enough. Certainly I don't have the sound I want. I can discern clarity even with my hearing, but I don't hear it with my Bose. I'm missing the Bing! When you hear Mozart, for example, through excellent speakers you get the Bing! I have the Mozart, I don't have the Bing!
I used to frequent the Saturday Audio Exchange (http://www.saturdayaudio.com/), a place where you could pick up $2000 speakers for $200. Don't know if they're still the scene, though.
Oh, wait a minute. You want bookshelf speakers? I have a pair of amazing bookshelf speakers that I'm not using anymore. They're kinda power-hungry, so you need a good amp, but I grabbed them from Saturday Audio Exchange some years ago when I found out they were top-of-the-line BBC studio speakers repackaged as a failed American experiment. I could ship them to you, and if they still work, you could toss me whatever feels right in cash. They've given me years of audiophile comfort, and I'd like to see them in a good home.
I'm aiming at bookshelf because I probably can't afford floor speakers. The biggest Klipsh bookshelf speakers cost $500. That's right up there in my max budget for speakers. I'll spend $500 but I want Bing!+ for that kind of cash.
And that's a very kind offer of your speakers. If you weren't waaaay over there I would drive over and give 'em a listen. Honestly, I can't answer you right now as I don't know exactly what I'm doing. (When do I ever.) Are these the speakers alone - just the cones - or box and all?
My Yamaha surround amp is Dolby Digital DTS, does that make a difference? Is there a particular wire I should use from the CD player to the amp or just the standard RCA jacks?
I never played around with DTS, but I believe you only use special connectors when you're doing 5.1 or greater. For stereo signal, you should be fine with a good old RCA cord.
And that's a very kind offer of your speakers. If you weren't waaaay over there I would drive over and give 'em a listen. Honestly, I can't answer you right now as I don't know exactly what I'm doing. (When do I ever.) Are these the speakers alone - just the cones - or box and all?
They're astonishingly good speakers. There's a whole story about how I found them, but that's for another day. They are in cabinets, just as you would expect a bookself speaker to be. They are also hellishly heavy, since they have magnets the size of a squirrel in them. Bass response is not what you would ever expect. A more free-spending audiophile friend of mine was listening to music at my old apartment, looking around, peeking under things. I asked him what he was looking for. "Where's your damn subwoofer?" he asked. I explained that there was no subwoofer; that was just my little speakers. He was gobsmacked.
Anyway, there's no two ways about it, they're going to you. I've been debating what to do with them. They need a good home. I'll get you some more details about them when I dig them out.
Hosakawa Tito
05-18-2011, 23:24
I have an ALX 5.1 Klipsch Home Theater System.
8" dual subwoofer on right that I used to replace an older subwoofer on the left.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/hoppy84/alx-subwoofers.jpg
One of 4 Speakers.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/hoppy84/alx-speaker.jpg
Control Unit.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/hoppy84/alx-control-unit.jpg
Center channel satellite
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/hoppy84/alx-center-channel-satellite.jpg
I generally use them between 35-45 decibels, but have had them up to 80. It's plenty loud and there is absolutely no distortion at that volume. The subwoofer can shake the house without distortion or rattling, just a huge lung emptying low frequency rumble. It's Awesome, Baby.
CD's, MP3's, movies, pc games, I'm hearing instruments and subtleties I've never heard before either through the old speakers, or through my Sennheiser HD 570 headphones that are reknowned for accurate reproduction of sounds. I highly recommend them.
I never played around with DTS, but I believe you only use special connectors when you're doing 5.1 or greater. For stereo signal, you should be fine with a good old RCA cord.
I called my buddy a few hours ago after I spoke to you; he's an electronics whiz, a self-professed genius, and possibly the most psychotic driver I've ever known. He said I should get a cheap DVD player that plays every format imaginable and run it to my Yamaha with either an optical cable or coax. He said it was the best\cheapest option. Sounds reasonable. Whadaya think?
They're astonishingly good speakers. There's a whole story about how I found them, but that's for another day. They are in cabinets, just as you would expect a bookself speaker to be. They are also hellishly heavy, since they have magnets the size of a squirrel in them. Bass response is not what you would ever expect. A more free-spending audiophile friend of mine was listening to music at my old apartment, looking around, peeking under things. I asked him what he was looking for. "Where's your damn subwoofer?" he asked. I explained that there was no subwoofer; that was just my little speakers. He was gobsmacked.
Anyway, there's no two ways about it, they're going to you. I've been debating what to do with them. They need a good home. I'll get you some more details about them when I dig them out.
It never rains but it pours.
My buddy, who is a semi-pro MacGyver for rich boneheads, did a home theater install for a guy and ended up with an extra speaker. How you can end up with an extra speaker I don't know, but he has one these brand new in the box since January: http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/klipsch-surround-bookshelf-speaker-rs42-single/10105920.aspx?path=6c595df5f31afcfbb4a42d34763c9736en02
He said I can have it for $100. Sold! Granted, now I have to buy the other one for $360 (tax included), but I'm saving $250 on the first one. Hard to say no. It may be a bit dumb to buy them sound unheard, but it's not stolen, it's new, and it looks to be a quality product. Certainly a step up from what I have now. Do you have an opinion on these speakers?
As for your speakers... well, I guess you'll tell me what to do in due time. :laugh4:
But I hold you to nothing, I appreciate the generosity of your offer and your assistance. Do what suits you and is in keeping with ease and low stress. Anything else and I will be P.O'd.
I have an ALX 5.1 Klipsch Home Theater System.
8" dual subwoofer on right that I used to replace an older subwoofer on the left.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/hoppy84/alx-subwoofers.jpg
Nice subwoofer. I'm going to grab a better one than the infamous and miserable :daisy: I have on the floor beside me. I like the Saitek keyboard, too.
Are you using your PC as your jukebox?
I like the Saitek keyboard, too.
Hah! I am typing on the same darn keyboard. I guess great minds buy similar products or something.
Beirut, my speakers are yours if you want 'em. Do USPS flat-rate boxes go to Canuckistan? I should check. The other deal sounds good too, so do as you please. These are studio monitors after all, which means they have exceptionally flat response. Some people don't like that. I do.
He said I should get a cheap DVD player that plays every format imaginable and run it to my Yamaha with either an optical cable or coax. He said it was the best\cheapest option.
So basically use the DVD player as a transport. What's going to handle the DAC? The receiver or the DVD player? Meh, he's right, it would certainly be simple, and it would allow you to dabble in surround sound, should that appeal to you.
Hah! I am typing on the same darn keyboard. I guess great minds buy similar products or something.
I had the Saitek keyboard with the second game pad http://www.bjorn3d.com/Material/ReviewImages/saitek%20keyboard.jpg , but a wet tea bag made contact with it PFFFFTTTTT! The end.
Beirut, my speakers are yours if you want 'em. Do USPS flat-rate boxes go to Canuckistan? I should check. The other deal sounds good too, so do as you please.
Let me ponder the realities of the mail.
These are studio monitors after all, which means they have exceptionally flat response. Some people don't like that. I do.
Now you're talking like my buddy. Allow me to phrase his response for you in anticipation of my next question: "Okay, I'll speak slowly and use small words because you're an idiot. Flat response means..."
So basically use the DVD player as a transport. What's going to handle the DAC? The receiver or the DVD player? Meh, he's right, it would certainly be simple, and it would allow you to dabble in surround sound, should that appeal to you.
I don't know what would do the DAC thing. I assume the components would just kinda git 'er done.
I was thiking of surround sound, but he - my buddy - made a good case for just two good speakers and a good subwoofer. Then again, he's got some maniacal $6000 amp, a set of Polk floor speakers and some wicked subwoofer hooked up. Oh, and it's hooked up to his giant screen HDTV and he controls the whole thing via his iPod. He gonna get fat wit hi bum on da sofa so much.
Yah, I figured you would know what a flat response is, seeing as you're cursed with the audiophile bug. [Edit - or I could read your response to mean you don't know. Just in case: Sound is a wave. The more faithful the reproduction of that wave at different frequencies, the "flatter" the response. In other words, the truer to the source material. Some people don't like a flat response -- they want the bass pumped, or they want the speakers to "add" something to the music. I don't. I want to hear exactly what was recorded, hence my preference.]
Dug out the speakers. They're Chartwells, and like I said, they were an experiment with BBC studio equipment for high-end audio systems. Not made anymore. A quick Google shows me that a pair sold a few years ago (http://www.pcreview.co.uk/forums/most-expensive-chartwell-ls3-5a-speakers-bought-ebay-t27507.html) for £1,290, and minty-fresh unscratched ones were being valued around $4,000 or so. Mine are not minty fresh, the speaker cabinets are scratched to hell, so I seriously doubt they're worth anything like that kind of coin.
How did a beaten-up pair of Chartwell speakers wind up at the Saturday Audio Exchange in Chicago? No idea. Found pictures of what appear to be the same speakers here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/41679262@N02/4032605327/). Hmm. Another poster says (http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=70094) a pair sold in Britain "for £3k+, mad innit." Sheesh. Maybe I should put these things on eBay.
-edit-
I see there is a warning on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/Fake-LS3-5a-Watch-out-Rogers-Chartwell-Audiomaster-RAM-/260768746109?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cb7074a7d) that the Chartwells being sold are fake, fake, FAKE! BEWARE! And here I have a pair of real ones gathering dust in a closet. Who knew?
-edit of the edit-
Further Googling gives me the correct history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_International#Notable_Products) of my speakers. Apparently Chartwell was one of five manufacturers allowed to make the BBC monitors. Such history! I had no idea!
Here's a stereophile review (http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcomponents/361/index8.html) of them from the last century.
Now that I have a better idea of how collectible these things are, if you don't want 'em, they're going straight to eBay. Where I will doubtless be accused of hawking fakes. Oh, the irony.
Yah, I figured you would know what a flat response is, seeing as you're cursed with the audiophile bug.
I'm really not that bright in some ways. Things to do with "E-lek-tra-niks" are but one of those ways.
You could call me a budget audiophile. I'll be happy with a "high-end" bookshelf system to pump the Floyd through. I want better than "Yeah, that's alright... ", but I don't need "Holy*****! That's amazing!" I'll be more than content with, "Hey, that's pretty nice!"
Dug out the speakers. They're Chartwells, and like I said, they were an experiment with BBC studio equipment for high-end audio systems. Not made anymore. A quick Google shows me that a pair sold a few years ago (http://www.pcreview.co.uk/forums/most-expensive-chartwell-ls3-5a-speakers-bought-ebay-t27507.html) for £1,290, and minty-fresh unscratched ones were being valued around $4,000 or so. Mine are not minty fresh, the speaker cabinets are scratched to hell, so I seriously doubt they're worth anything like that kind of coin.
How did a beaten-up pair of Chartwell speakers wind up at the Saturday Audio Exchange in Chicago? No idea. Found pictures of what appear to be the same speakers here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/41679262@N02/4032605327/). Hmm. Another poster says (http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=70094) a pair sold in Britain "for £3k+, mad innit." Sheesh. Maybe I should put these things on eBay.
-edit-
I see there is a warning on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/Fake-LS3-5a-Watch-out-Rogers-Chartwell-Audiomaster-RAM-/260768746109?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cb7074a7d) that the Chartwells being sold are fake, fake, FAKE! BEWARE! And here I have a pair of real ones gathering dust in a closet. Who knew?
-edit of the edit-
Further Googling gives me the correct history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_International#Notable_Products) of my speakers. Apparently Chartwell was one of five manufacturers allowed to make the BBC monitors. Such history! I had no idea!
Here's a stereophile review (http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcomponents/361/index8.html) of them from the last century.
Now that I have a better idea of how collectible these things are, if you don't want 'em, they're going straight to eBay. Where I will doubtless be accused of hawking fakes. Oh, the irony.
I will be delighted to read your post where you tell us that some guy in California paid you top dollar for those speakers. Your offer was more than generous and I don't take that kind of thing lightly. :bow: But you have a Little Lemur, do you not? And I have a few little Beiruts, and I could never pay you what they are worth and you deserve to get exactly what they are worth. If you are happy, I'm happy, and I'll be delighted with my Klipsch setup I'm sure.
Oh, this is my amp. Is says it handles the DAC thing, unless I misread the specs. It's certainly not an expensive amp, but it's new and clean and mine and I like it.
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/htr/htr-6030_black__u/?mode=model
Yah, according to this page (http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/htr/htr-6030_black__u/?mode=model) (under the "specs" tab) the Yamaha handles the DAC, although they give no hint as to what sort of gear does the heavy lifting.
Well, I'm not retracting the offer, since I made it in good faith, but you're right, these Chartwells are probably more valuable on eBay than they are in either of our living rooms.
Strike For The South
05-19-2011, 21:48
Old men talking about old tech.
/whippersanper intermission
/I wasn't even alive in the 80s
Old men talking about old tech.
/whippersanper intermission
/I wasn't even alive in the 80s
You missed out, pup. Those were good days. And the 70s were much better. I wouldn't trade it for the virtual life of electronic isolation most teenagers experience now. Not in a million years.
Back then when you bought an album it was an experience. It was almost a religious experience to open up a brand new album, look at the perfection of the grooves, place it on the turntable, set the needle down oh so carefully, and then play with the dials and knobs on the amp and fiddle with the EQ to get the best sound. Then sit back and look at the pictures and writing on the album, maybe there was a poster and stickers inside. A lot of times you did this with your friends, it was a social experience. You got together just to listen to music. My best friend's girlfriend had a good stereo in her basement and lots of blacklights and blacklight posters. We'd hang out and just listen to music on Saturday nights in that surreal atmosphere. It was really magical.
Ahhhhh... melancholy. :embarassed: I miss my old friends.
Hosakawa Tito
05-20-2011, 00:55
Hehehe, the only part I don't miss is having to pay for the crap songs on the album to get the ones you wanted. Some albums were all good, but most had some real stinkers mixed in. It was definitely a gratifying social experience to get that "just out" new album from your favorite band and listen to it with your friends. Good times & memories indeed.:2thumbsup:
Lemur, check it out - the Klipsch speaker I need to complete the set went down $90 last night, it's on sale for a week.
The planets begin to align. :7astronaut:
Niiiice. You're gonna be rocking out before you know it, tree-killer.
Niiiice. You're gonna be rocking out before you know it, tree-killer.
I was just salivating over the immersion edition of DSotM at Amazon. :drunk:
Here's one for ya: if you play a CD, or any music, on your PC and send it out to your amp, the myriad of volume levels the music goes through - the volume on the media player, on the PC, and the amp - must be degrading it somehow. It's got to be cleaner just going through a no-volume-control CD\DVD player, no?
InsaneApache
05-20-2011, 19:09
I got a very nice Morantz system about a decade ago. Coupled with the Tannoy speakers the quality is superb.
I havn't listened to it for years, thanks to the internets. :shame:
Here's one for ya: if you play a CD, or any music, on your PC and send it out to your amp, the myriad of volume levels the music goes through - the volume on the media player, on the PC, and the amp - must be degrading it somehow. It's got to be cleaner just going through a no-volume-control CD\DVD player, no?
Ummm, depends. The real question would be how many stages there are after the digital-to-analog conversion. And how good that conversion was. Were the audio streams merged? Did a single DSP process both streams? How many wires did the signal go through post-DAC?
In some ways a computer is a much more stable platform than a CD/DVD player. It has oodles of memory and so forth, so it can buffer the data. But ... yeah, it all depends.
Ummm, depends. The real question would be how many stages there are after the digital-to-analog conversion. And how good that conversion was. Were the audio streams merged? Did a single DSP process both streams? How many wires did the signal go through post-DAC?
If you're going to talk to me like that you better buy me dinner first and offer me a cigarette... after.
In some ways a computer is a much more stable platform than a CD/DVD player. It has oodles of memory and so forth, so it can buffer the data. But ... yeah, it all depends.
I stole the DVD (uber-cheap Philips) from downstairs and am using it at this very moment. I like it beter than playing through the laptop. The sound is good and it's certainly simpler.
I got a very nice Morantz system about a decade ago. Coupled with the Tannoy speakers the quality is superb.
I havn't listened to it for years, thanks to the internets. :shame:
Then it's time to revist an old friend. :yes:
InsaneApache
05-21-2011, 04:18
Then it's time to revist an old friend. :yes:
Now tha's summat to talk about. Twenty years ago, a few mates, birds as well, beer, music and *ahem* foreplay.
I just got it. I'm an old fart!
*lol*
Finally got around to putting those Chartwells on eBay. A friend of a friend does it for a living, so my innate laziness took over, and I said, "Sell these for me, will you?" So Beirut was right, they're looking to fetch a pretty penny and I'll throw the money into the kids' college accounts. All's well that ends well.
I doubt anyone on the Org is the sort to go in for vintage audiophile equipment, but just in case, the auction is here (http://www.ebay.com/itm/380430599763?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649#ht_6182wt_1396). (Am I allowed to post a link like that? Since it was something we'd been talking about? I don't want to be accused of commercial spam or anything.)
Bang&Olufsen Overture & Beolab. And, no, what you have isn't any better. Costs a fortune but I can almost touch Norah Jones
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