Radko Mladic caught in Serbia.

[HoreTore]

Or shall we say, the serbs concluded their internal debate on whether to go for nationalism or europe.

What will happen now?

[Fragony]

Dunno what to say as I know absolutely nothing of what exactly happened there in Yugoslavia. Brenus does he was there.

[HoreTore]

Why dwell on the past? Why not start thinking about the future?

That's been the bane of the Balkans. They've spent the last decade arguing about what happened in the previous decade, instead of thinking about what their future should be like.

[rory_20_uk]

Because to many, the past is important. Wishing it were not there will not make it simply vanish.

A singularly poor time to be worrying too much about Europe with the current fudges that are going on.

~:smoking:

[Brenus]

That is a great news... Finally...

[Sarmatian]

Hah! Take that mr. Bramertz! Murdering bastard caught, gets to hang out with his pal Radovan, I got a day off at work and am spending it with my girlfriend (i actually drove through Lazarevo, the village where Mladic was arrested), some far right organizations that are very close to banning promised protests which may get them banned even quicke... Ah, life is good.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Yay! Off to the Hague, and if it were up to me, off to the bottom of the ocean.

[Shibumi]

Why did we not just have a SAS team take him down?

[Strike For The South]

Why did we not just have a SAS team take him down?

removed personal attack

[Shibumi]

Removed

removed by moderater as it references removed material

There are women in the world, there are drugs, there are recreational sports.. List goes on.

No need to grumpy.

Enjoy :)

[Samurai Waki]

Special Forces Operations can have mixed effects, I'm not sure if Mladic was worth the effort, and Serbia is in an entirely different part of the world than Afghanistan/Pakistan... I doubt Serbia's EU neighbors would've been keen on further potentially destabilizing effects that could be avoided. The Serbian people have done the job themselves, so why bother?

[Shibumi]

Special Forces Operations can have mixed effects, I'm not sure if Mladic was worth the effort, and Serbia is in an entirely different part of the world than Afghanistan/Pakistan... I doubt Serbia's EU neighbors would've been keen on further potentially destabilizing effects that could be avoided. The Serbian people have done the job themselves, so why bother?

I agree, no need to send a special ops team just because the guy was bad. He deserves a day in court like anyone else. Let us not dwell further at comparisons though, but leave it at that and let the topic move forward to the actual good news - the ****** is caught.

[Centurion1]

removed as per above
There are women in the world, there are drugs, there are recreational sports.. List goes on.

No need to grumpy.

Enjoy :)

This coming from you makes me laugh. Did you not recently imply I relish violence visited upon Homosexuals?

[Shibumi]

This coming from you makes me laugh. Did you not recently imply I relish violence visited upon Homosexuals?

Nope. Did not imply any such thing. You must have made that implication up of your own. I just said I was not surprised that you laughed, I take that from the amount of LOL's seen in your posts along with the general level.

You just often come off as someone into the whole Peanut Butter Jelly Time thingy. So no, I most certainly did not imply that you relished at violence towards homosexuals.

The fact that you again wrote that it made you laugh kind of strengthens my point.

Glad we had that sorted.

[Centurion1]

Biggest Crock of Bull I have ever read. And to be frank I am tired of Scandinavians on this board being such jerks Scratch that. I'm tired of you being a complete jerk to everyone who disagrees with you as removed, personal insult

In other news I am happy that they managed to capture Mladic. An icon of horrific bloodbath and genocide(s) in the Balkans. It also may hopefully demonstrate that Serbia, as someone earlier stated, is moving on from that terrible time and joining the rest of the world community in full.

[Strike For The South]

removed as per above

There are women in the world, there are drugs, there are recreational sports.. List goes on.

No need to grumpy.

Enjoy :)

You have opened my eyes

All these recreational sports I've been missing

I feel stupid

lol, this is the start of a beautifual friendship

[Furunculus]

As usual Dan Hannan puts it best:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100089863/ratko-mladic-should-stand-trial-in-bosnia-not-the-hague/


Serbia’s readiness to extradite Ratko Mladić to The Hague, we keep being told, is proof of that country’s democratic fitness, and will hasten its admission to the EU. As Nicolas Sarkozy puts it, “it is a step toward integration of Serbia into the European Union”.

In fact, if you think about it, the opposite ought to be true. Serbia would have proved its fitness when a man like Mladić could expect justice in Belgrade. The sad truth is that he is unlikely to get justice from the ICTY.

Why do I say that? Well, look at its most high-profile case so far: the trial of Slobodan Milošević. As the great Theodore Dalrymple put it: “The International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia in The Hague was little more than a kangaroo court, though without the very real advantages of that kind of legal establishment, namely speed and economy.” Yup. It masticated its leisurely way through a $200 million a year budget, while Slobbo whiled away five years in prison, and had still not reached a verdict when both judge and defendant were dead.

Along the way, as John Laughland showed in his magisterial study of the trial, the ICTY had violated almost every legal precept, admitting hearsay evidence, contradicting itself, changing its rules of procedure 22 times and, when the old monster proved surprisingly eloquent in his own defence, taking the extraordinary step of imposing counsel on him.

For more than three centuries, the world has operated on the pragmatic and clearly understood principle that crimes are the responsibility of the state on whose territory they are committed – in this case, Bosnia-Herzegovina. Now, without debate, and with little thought, we are rushing into a universal jurisdiction policed by a caste of fervent human rights activists who have never taken the trouble to get a democratic mandate for their agenda.

[HoreTore]

Why did we not just have a SAS team take him down?

In short: because the governments with SAS teams didn't know where he was. The Serbian government knew where he was, and it was they who arrested him.

Anyway.

Serbia says they will hand him over to the ICC within a week. But will they actually be able to do so?

[CrossLOPER]

I have often wondered how it comes you are still allowed to post in here, given the amount of personal insults I have seen from you. Raging much behind that desktop of yours? Unsatisfied with your life?
Don't question this. Instead, learn from what he does and apply it. Relax. You'll be much happier here.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Give him his fair trial, then hang him.

[Sarmatian]

As usual Dan Hannan puts it best:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100089863/ratko-mladic-should-stand-trial-in-bosnia-not-the-hague/

It is quite clear that Hague tribunal doesn`t have anything to do with competence of the local courts anymore. Unfortunately, it was always known that legally, the tribunal is a farce. It was never suposed to be a true court but a self justification tool for those who set it up.

Let`s hope that finally, with Mladic caught, it will cease to exist and be relegated to hsitory books to be properly ridiculed.

@Horetore

Since Milosevic was extradited, I see no reason why someone would make a fuss over Mladic.

[Skullheadhq]

removed as per above


Give him his fair trial, then hang him.

The Netherlands doesn't have the death penalty, so you're out of luck.

[Louis VI the Fat]

It is quite clear that Hague tribunal doesn`t have anything to do with competence of the local courts anymore. Unfortunately, it was always known that legally, the tribunal is a farce. It was never suposed to be a true court but a self justification tool for those who set it up.

Let`s hope that finally, with Mladic caught, it will cease to exist and be relegated to hsitory books to be properly ridiculed.Nah. This tribunal is one more instrument towards maintaining civilisation in Europe.

Ridicule is for Serbian and other nationalists, who'd prefer impunity for warlords and mass murderers over international human rights. It is the ridicule that thinks the slightest innovation of legal formality is a bigger infringement of rights than mass raping genocidal maniacs.
Sorry, but * grows beard, rips off clothes, shouts at top of lungs* THIS IS EUROPE!!
We have decided sixty years ago that there is no legal impunity for genocide in Europe. That we will find and prosecute the perpetrators.


As for the local courts:
They have slowly been gaining traction in recent years, but two decades would've been too long to wait for them. And besides, Croatia is still reluctant to prosecute its own. Serbia for its part has forever protected its perpetrators. So no, bless the International Tribunal. It has been the best instrument to meet out some justice.


As for ridicule:
It is easier to extract blood from stone than it is to extract information, or suspects, or cooperation, from Serbia. It is costly, you know, very costly, to constantly be surrounded by Serbs insisting nothing happened unless you can show the body. So you resort to satellite footage and local forensics to guide you to the body, which you excavate and show. Then they will insist you have not shown any evidence until you can show all of the corpse. And so you go on digging for the other mass graves, to which the Serbs have relocated part of the bodies to hide and scatter evidence. You find a these too. And then when you have puzzled together a complete human remains that was scattered over four mass graves by the local Serbs, they will insist you have not shown any evidence until you can come up with all of the 8000 bodies. So you dig for all them, and after fifteen years and 400 million euros spend, you find 6500 corpses, and so the Serbs conclude you failed to show evidence of Serbian mass murder, and ridicule you over it.

It is very time-consuming. It is very expensive. But that is fine - justice may come with a price tag.
It is fine too that throughout the Serbs stand by and ridicule you, taunt you. Hide the bodies, hide the mass graves, dig up the corpses, hide them again in the next village. Shelter the perpetrators, deny anything ever happened, insist they are innocent, that it is everybody else, that they have no idea how these mass graves appeared on their territory, that they have not seen Mladic, or Karadzic. That surely you must be mistaken, that they are not hiding in Serbia.

It is all fine. We have been digging up the truth one corpse at a time. Finding out the truth one testimony at a time. And we are prosecuting the mass murderers one perpetrator at a time. :yes:

[Louis VI the Fat]

The Netherlands doesn't have the death penalty, so you're out of luck.This is not a Dutch court, but a UN one.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Still, the UN doesn't have a death penalty either. Human rights and all that.

[HoreTore]

@Horetore

Since Milosevic was extradited, I see no reason why someone would make a fuss over Mladic.

?...since Milosevic was extradited, why should the Serbian army hide and protect Mladic for years and years? Yet they still did just that...

Anyhoo...

The last of the bigwigs are now down. Time to go after the smaller fish. Like every single one of the murderers at Screbrenica, and bring the buggers to justice.

[Fragony]

For what taking orders. Something similar to Sebrenica happened here in WW2, all men of a village were killed after the resistance killed a German general, genocide nah. Warcrime yeah, but soldiers just do what they are told to do

[Brenus]

“We have decided sixty years ago that there is no legal impunity for genocide in Europe.”
Yeah, right… What about Izetbegovic Trial? Tudjman Trial? Ah, yes, I remember, they never happed. Or NATO under investigation for bombing civilians? Ah, remember now, never happened. The investigation I mean…
What about the last pogrom in Europe? Hundred Churches burned, few dozen killed and ethnic cleansing? Ah yeah, we still investigating…
But look, Naser Oric was innocent of the complete vanishing in the thin air of the Serbs population in Srebrenica, nor he was guilty of war crimes in the Serbian villages his troops attacked coming from an disarmed UN Protected Area…
And when will KLA leaders be on trial for war crimes, adduction and killing prisoners? Later, I suppose.

“Serbia for its part has forever protected its perpetrators”: Yeap. That was probably Milosevic escaped, and Seselj, and oh, all of them. But look, all the Bosnian gave theirs to the court. Silly me, they had none.

“you find 6500 corpses”.
You didn’t. You have no satellite pictures. You had no horseshoes operations. Pristina’s Stadium was not a concentration camp.
You can carry on pretending you have proofs you don’t have. That is fine. Sort of. Of course, the deniers will use it until the end of the world, but hey, does it really matters?
What is certain is was a massacre, a war crime.
I could say that even to find a body doesn’t prove it is a Bosniak, but hey, as you never really answer about the Serbian Population of Sebrenica, it doesn’t really matter.
If the Serbs are hiding their war criminals, the Bosniaks are the best at it.
Not that two wrongs make one right, mind you. I just want to highlight the ridiculous assumption about the international “Justice”.
You probably know that nobody is responsible for the killing of injured (Serb) Yugoslav soldiers in Sarajevo Hospital, or cares about the Serbs patients in Vukovar Hospital who just vanished under the eyes of the “Angel of Vukovar”.

“why should the Serbian army hide and protect Mladic for years and years?”
Ah, it is the Serbian Army now? I wonder why the Serbs lost the war, if all of them were a bunch of happy murderers they should have wiped out any others as the others according to the ones you believed had no weapons and were innocent sheep in a slaughter house…
The Serbs destroyed their houses and voluntarily left Sarajevo or Gorazde in jumping in the Drina.
Of course...

[Fragony]

Not that innocent if I have to believe a friend of mine, according to him they were actually shot at by these people they were supposed to protect for days. People who say that the Dutch weren't all too keen on protecting them are probably right, I've heard some crazy things they all sympathised with the Serbs according to him. You know nothing is what I'm told, that's true at least I don't