Teacher Punches Student, Teacher Wins Criminal Case, There Was Much Rejoicing

[Strike For The South]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1173240.ece

I would expect nothing less from a ginger

When the Chineese surpass us this will be the reason. Not some test scores or a debt ceiling but lack of respect is what is going to cripples us

This kid should be taken out back and beaten with a rubber hose

[Centurion1]

My mother is afraid she is going to smack one of her students. She is a fiery little lady so I wouldn't be surprised. Hell, I wouldn't be incensed either the things they call my mother....... and these are seventh graders. What the article cites the boy as saying is included. I mean I wanna go smack them around for her. She found a carving on the wall in a blind spot saying Mrs. Centurion is a dyk bich. Thats what we are dealing with gentlemen little turds who can't even spell their insults...... Dammit when I was little I remember the first words we learned how to properly spell were the bad ones they are the only thing children use the damn dictionary for.

Also I blame parents and the administration letting parents do what they want so they dont take flak. Thats why the teachers union despite its liberal agenda and my usually universal hatred for unions get some support from me because of how I see my mother is treated. And the administration would screw her over even more but the Union does still fight for them a little.

As a result I blame not the teachers for our dumb out of control new generations but the failure of educational administration and parents. Especially parents.

Edit: Also my mother teaches honors math.......... I kid you not. Honors.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I have to agree. A student who thinks he can get into a teacher's face while yelling vulgarity deserves worse.

CR

[Samurai Waki]

One thing I do not stand for as a parent is disrespect from a child/minor. I know spanking is frowned upon these days, but I frown a lot when I think about our society. So I think we're even.

[Centurion1]

Usually Kids who respect and fear their parents respect and fear their teachers and other people in authority. Otherwise good luck. I for one would and have never disrespected a teacher or anybody in public. Hell, I curse like a sailor but that doesn't mean thats how I talk to a teacher no matter my dislike for them.

[Strike For The South]

fear?

No fear is not the intended effect

[Centurion1]

Fear is good. Fear leads to respect. No one is asking you to love your teacher. You should fear the repercussions if you misbehave. This leads to maturity and respect for the position so that you no longer wish to misbehave anyway.

[Strike For The South]

Fear does not lead to respect. You are doing things backwards

[Samurai Waki]

Discipline; youngsters demand it, even if they don't know it. Fear may be a consequence of discipline, then again a little fear never hurt anyone, it prevents us from making stupid decisions.

[Centurion1]

It most certainly can. And respect does not lead to fear. Obviously additional factors have to be added in as well as pure fear is never a good thing.

[Strike For The South]

Fear doesn't always lead to respect

https://img856.imageshack.us/img856/2185/hitlerbaby.jpg (https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/856/hitlerbaby.jpg/)
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Not going to lie, I've been trying to work that picture in for a week. I figured I'd have a slam dunk considering Louis is taking a trip down late 19th-early 20th century high society lane trying to define "whiteness" by certain "charcterisicis" but I digress

I do not respect people due to fear. Fear is a volatile emotion which always ends up badly. Respect is what you should aim for, fear is easy to instill ask any batterd wife

[Centurion1]

There is the fear an assaulted woman feels and there is the fear where someone is worried about the repercussions of their actions. Should people not fear the consequences of breaking the law?

[Strike For The South]

There is the fear an assaulted woman feels and there is the fear where someone is worried about the repercussions of their actions. Should people not fear the consequences of breaking the law?

I'm not even sure what you're saying here....are you implying differing degrees of fear?


To an extent but many people know the consequences of breaking the law and still do it. It is better to fully understand why crim is a detriment to society in the first place. Which brings me back to the fact that fear is often used in place of a more complex emotion/concept for the sake of simplicity (of tecahing the concept, of actually discipling your kids, etc)

I should never fear those in authority, I think that was your first point but I may have lost in the commition of backpedaling off your main arguement

[Centurion1]

I haven't backed off its 3:30 I need to stop soon. And those people who break the law are deviants within society and are not considered functioning members equivalent to their varying levels of crime. Sure it is better to understand why something is wrong but not everyone in society can grasp what may appear to be a simple concept for you. As a result they need something to fear. Any sort of punishment is simply designed to feared so that you believe that the crime is not worth the punishment. Disciplining your children results in them fearing punishment which may in time lead to respect. But the basis of that obedience and respect for the law is a healthy does for what the law can do to you if you **** with it.

[Strike For The South]

The original statement is




Usually Kids who respect and fear their parents respect and fear their teachers and other people in authority. Otherwise good luck. I for one would and have never disrespected a teacher or anybody in public. Hell, I curse like a sailor but that doesn't mean thats how I talk to a teacher no matter my dislike for them.
Fear of your parents beget fear in all authority figures, Can you not see where this could be a problem? Can you not see where this could not be healthy? Could you not see where fear could ruin the relationship?

Fear is not very conduicve to a teaching enviorment, respect is. People often confuse the two but the results speak for themselves

[Samurai Waki]

You guys forget how different your minds were when you were adolescent, or children. Children are far more open to suggestive thinking than we are, in the five years I've had my kids I've only ever had to spank them twice. Now they understand when I give them "that look" they instantly recall the last time-- that suggestive thinking works it's way into your mature mind, so eventually you'll deviate- Do the wrong thing on occasion, but your mind still has that subconscious recall, your mind has been structured this way; if it lacks that structure chances are you'll continue to deviate until disaster.

[Centurion1]

Look your consider this backpedaling but I never said that fear is the most vital element or that you fear your parents. Rather fear your parents punishments. My argument is simply that fear of punishment will create a better society. That is reasonable is it not. As well shouldn't people fear the consequences of their actions. Woe to the world that creates a society which does not fear their consequences.


You guys forget how different your minds were when you were adolescent, or children. Children are far more open to suggestive thinking than we are, in the five years I've had my kids I've only ever had to spank them twice. Now they understand when I give them "that look" they instantly recall the last time-- that suggestive thinking works it's way into your mature mind, so eventually you'll deviate- Do the wrong thing on occasion, but your mind still has that subconscious recall, your mind has been structured this way; if it lacks that structure chances are you'll continue to deviate until disaster.

Fear. And is that fear unhealthy? I say no. I think your children are not afraid of you they are afraid of being bad and receiving rightful punishment. This in no way disallows them from loving and respecting you, their father.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The original statement is



Fear of your parents beget fear in all authority figures, Can you not see where this could be a problem? Can you not see where this could not be healthy? Could you not see where fear could ruin the relationship?

Fear is not very conduicve to a teaching enviorment, respect is. People often confuse the two but the results speak for themselves


If fear is the recognition that something or someone is vastly more powerful that you it is entirely healtyh, just like a healthy sense of shame is a recognition that others do have the right to judge your actions.

The real problem with society today is the endemic self-righteous that infects it.

[Husar]

I don't see a problem with the video, the student clearly tried to threaten her, doesn't really matter whether or not he touched her.

Had he tried that with my latin teacher, he may have ended up much worse, he once pushed a guy against the door for just being a jerk.

It's also funny how quickly these jerks play the victim afterwards, that's the really pathetic thing.

[HoreTore]

Fire the teacher for complete incompetence and slam her bitch ass in jail for child abuse.



I skipped reading this thread after a few posts because my stomach started acting up.

[Ice]

Fire the teacher for complete incompetence and slam her bitch ass in jail for child abuse.



I skipped reading this thread after a few posts because my stomach started acting up.

Lol, what?

[HoreTore]

Lol, what?

This case has two seperate issues. The first is about classroom management, and the second is about responding to deviations from the established norms. And she failed in epic fashion on both counts. The first fail should cost her the job, the second should send her to prison.

She is clearly incapable of establishing and maintaining a working learning enviroment. And when you fail at that, you are an incompetent teacher and should seek employment elsewhere. It only serves to fuel my prejudices that she is an art teacher and started around age 40. That fact didn't raise my eyebrow a single millimeter.

She also is clearly unable to see the appropriate response when someone breaks a norm. And the choice she made is a clear case of child abuse, as that is the name we have for violence when the victim is under 18. Slam her saggy behind to the prison gang bang showers.

Also, Strike, a school shouldn't have a teaching enviroment, it should have a learning enviroment. But I do believe that this hag shares that confusion with you.

A general comment at the end: Verbal abuse is enough to best up a kid? Puh-lease! It should be viewed as constructive criticism to how you go about your job, and through reflection you might learn how to correct your practice so it does not happen again.

[Samurai Waki]

Lol. Alright there, cupcake. Some parents raise their kids to :daisy: if their parents won't do them the favor, society will... this kid is going to have a lot more to worry about than teachers punching him in the face.

[HoreTore]

Good teachers have disiplined kids and an easy job.

Bad teachers have brats and their job is a hell.

That's the reality.

As for "you're a cupcake", I have no idea what that even means...

[Centurion1]

Your cute horetore. Welcome to American public education. You will notice she won teacher of the year last year. You probably teach at some private school. Welcome to the harsh reality of low income public schooling.

[Samurai Waki]

Besides the video isn't a good reference, it actually appears that either one of them could have made first physical contact; This is why the prosecutors dropped the case, it isn't a clear violation... if the student hit the teacher, the teacher does have the right to defend herself.. and the DAO could not find any reasonable evidence to suggest that the attack was malicious in intent.

Cupcake= Thin Skinned.

[HoreTore]

Your cute horetore. Welcome to American public education. You will notice she won teacher of the year last year.

I place absolutely zero weight on such prizes. I am also highly sceptical about praise from students in general, I much prefer criticism and wishes for the future.


You probably teach at some private school. Welcome to the harsh reality of low income public schooling.

Hah!

In breach of internet anonymity, I'll share my workplace with you: I work at Åssiden Barneskole(baneskole means elementary school). Åssiden is a part of the city of Drammen, and the second lowest income area after Fjell. The ethnic make-up of my class is 40-60 immigrant-ethnic norweegian, for the entire school it's roughly 50-50 I believe. If you draw a line from the Balkans to India you will catch most of their countries of origins, with a couple of africans and a vietnamese thrown in to spice it up. While there isn't as many "red students"(code-name for students with something "going on", ranging from a messy divorce or drunk parent to much worse) as at the grade below, there are still plenty of them who currently needs extra attention in that area, or who have been in that situation before. There are also many students with extra learning needs(like little math knowledge or still learning the language). It's quite rare that I have a full class, it's mostly 60-80%, but it's not uncommon for half of my students to be taken away by the special educations teacher.

That's my reality. Please, if you wish to make a serious argument, try to avoid making ridiculous, laughable and untrue assumptions about other people.

[Beskar]

I have to agree. A student who thinks he can get into a teacher's face while yelling vulgarity deserves worse.

CR

Me and CR agreed on something. The Rapture is upon us!

[Centurion1]

Hah!

In breach of internet anonymity, I'll share my workplace with you: I work at Åssiden Barneskole(baneskole means elementary school). Åssiden is a part of the city of Drammen, and the second lowest income area after Fjell. The ethnic make-up of my class is 40-60 immigrant-ethnic norweegian, for the entire school it's roughly 50-50 I believe. If you draw a line from the Balkans to India you will catch most of their countries of origins, with a couple of africans and a vietnamese thrown in to spice it up. While there isn't as many "red students"(code-name for students with something "going on", ranging from a messy divorce or drunk parent to much worse) as at the grade below, there are still plenty of them who currently needs extra attention in that area, or who have been in that situation before. There are also many students with extra learning needs(like little math knowledge or still learning the language). It's quite rare that I have a full class, it's mostly 60-80%, but it's not uncommon for half of my students to be taken away by the special educations teacher.

That's my reality. Please, if you wish to make a serious argument, try to avoid making ridiculous, laughable and untrue assumptions about other people.

Which makes it sound quite a bit like the "good" public school in my area. Your simply lying if you don't have discipline problems. To add to that you teach what was it you said? 3rd graders. The poor behavior can begin then but its never going to be as bad as a junior high schooler or secondary student. Also your a man (i hope :tongue:) as compared to the 65 year old woman in the case. Has one of your third graders ever backed you against a wall and called you vulgar names?

[HoreTore]

I currently teach the seventh grade, meaning 12/13-year olds and about to make the switch from elementary to middle school, which generally makes them rather rowdy. I've also worked at all three grades in middle school(meaning from 13 to 16 year olds).

Of course "vulgar name calling" has occured where I have worked(though not at me). But escalating a situation that's gotten out of hand is never the answer. First thing you learn is that student behaviour is always a mirror of your own behaviour. Keeping cool is critical. And since when has working out situations when tempers are flaring ever worked...?

As for general disipline at the school, it is incredibly good, which I attribute to the schools method of handling and preventing breaches. And no, punching kids aint one of the methods. And that's not just my personal feeling, my professor was "surprised at how disiplined they were" when he visited. And that, I might add, was during a class which I personally felt they were getting way out of hand...

[Centurion1]

ah you had me confused. Elementary school ends at the fifth grade here.

[Hosakawa Tito]

I strongly suspect junior "suffers" from a "parenting problem". Respect for others, especially "authority figures" is learned at home. I'd be curious to know how junior's parents reacted to this incident.

[Kralizec]

Good teachers have disiplined kids and an easy job.

Bad teachers have brats and their job is a hell.

That's the reality.

As for "you're a cupcake", I have no idea what that even means...

Don't know what it's like in Norway, but the incident described in the OP could just as well happened here in the Neth's.

I know quite a few teachers. The good ones don't have disciplined kids, they just know how to deal with disrespectful vermin without making it worse and losing face. The bad ones might know everything about their respective subjects and have the ability to teach it to others who are willing to learn, but aren't able to cope with kids who don't respect them by default.

[Tellos Athenaios]

I expect “junior” as we call him now has a whole different can of issues than just parents given the behaviour he displayed. I still doubt a normal kid would be licking the windows for the nutritional value, let alone walk up to a teacher in a transport of rage just because he was told off for it regardless if the teacher was incompetent or not. Which begets the question: why? Surely a competent teacher would've been able to read the situation before it got way out of hand?

[HoreTore]

Bingo.

[Ice]

Cry me river. The kid deserved to get slapped upside the head. I went to school with kids like this assclown... while most of the class was trying to learn he would be doing anything disruptive he could think about doing.

[Crazed Rabbit]

She also is clearly unable to see the appropriate response when someone breaks a norm. And the choice she made is a clear case of child abuse, as that is the name we have for violence when the victim is under 18. Slam her saggy behind to the prison gang bang showers.

Ah, so you're a fan of rape-as-punishment?

CR

[HoreTore]

Cry me river. The kid deserved to get slapped upside the head. I went to school with kids like this assclown... while most of the class was trying to learn he would be doing anything disruptive he could think about
doing.

...and just why did he behave like he did? And does his behaviour change the job description of the teacher, which is to enable him to learn stuff?

I have a kid like this in my class too. He only attends art and gym classes, the rest of the day he gets alternative education in a small group with two others. That he is unable to cope in a classroom enviroment does not change the schools responsibility to give him an education.


Ah, so you're a fan of rape-as-punishment?

CR

Of course I am, CR

[Husar]

I have a kid like this in my class too. He only attends art and gym classes, the rest of the day he gets alternative education in a small group with two others. That he is unable to cope in a classroom enviroment does not change the schools responsibility to give him an education.

Haha, most schools simply don't have the funding and teachers here to give students that much attention, classes are often 25-30 people and while this is recognized as a problem, there is often a lack of teachers.
Now you blame the teachers for this and want to fire them, that's a great solution because it will likely lead to classes with 35-40 people. :dizzy2:

You also sound like you can deal with those children but in reality you don't, another teacher apparently does.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Of course I am, CR

Assuming that you're being sarcastic - where do you draw that line in the post I quoted? One might think the whole quote is sarcasm.

And so it appears you are a fan of rape-as-comedy.

CR

[HoreTore]

I'm a fan of anything-as-comedy.

[Cute Wolf]

that student deserves worse than this. If he go to school here, he'll end up half-dead anyway for showing such disrespect

[Strike For The South]

This case has two seperate issues. The first is about classroom management, and the second is about responding to deviations from the established norms. And she failed in epic fashion on both counts. The first fail should cost her the job, the second should send her to prison.

She is clearly incapable of establishing and maintaining a working learning enviroment. And when you fail at that, you are an incompetent teacher and should seek employment elsewhere. It only serves to fuel my prejudices that she is an art teacher and started around age 40. That fact didn't raise my eyebrow a single millimeter.

She also is clearly unable to see the appropriate response when someone breaks a norm. And the choice she made is a clear case of child abuse, as that is the name we have for violence when the victim is under 18. Slam her saggy behind to the prison gang bang showers.

Also, Strike, a school shouldn't have a teaching enviroment, it should have a learning enviroment. But I do believe that this hag shares that confusion with you.

A general comment at the end: Verbal abuse is enough to best up a kid? Puh-lease! It should be viewed as constructive criticism to how you go about your job, and through reflection you might learn how to correct your practice so it does not happen again.

Teaching is intertwined with learning. If no teaching is done, no one will learn. If no one is willing to learn no teaching will happen.

Child abuse? Bull. She threw one punch becuase he was backing her into a corner

An 18 year old 6'5 120 kilo kid is backing you into a corner and screaming obscenties at you

WHAT LEARNING ENVIROMENT DO YOU CREATE THEN?

[Crazed Rabbit]

I'm a fan of anything-as-comedy.

So what was the point of your comment?

CR

[Tellos Athenaios]

She threw one punch becuase he was backing her into a corner

An 18 year old 6'5 120 kilo kid is backing you into a corner and screaming obscenties at you


But the real question remains: why did it come to this? That matters, or at least that should matter to the teacher and the school. Neither window licking nor transports of rage strike me as particularly normal classroom situations, so what part of the story does the article omit?

[HoreTore]

So what was the point of your comment?

CR

Humour.

[Ice]

...and just why did he behave like he did?

Who knows why he behaved the way he did; stupid friends, bad parenting, tv influence etc, could all be reasons.


And does his behaviour change the job description of the teacher, which is to enable him to learn stuff?


Of course not. However, the teacher felt she threatened by an 18 year old male who was much larger than she was and acted appropiately. Like I said, cry me a river the kid deserved it.


I have a kid like this in my class too. He only attends art and gym classes, the rest of the day he gets alternative education in a small group with two others. That he is unable to cope in a classroom enviroment does not change the schools responsibility to give him an education.

I'm not sure what this has to do with a teacher's right to self defense.

[HoreTore]

Cultural difference here.

As a european, my idea of self-defense is "run first, respond in another way only if running is impossible". An american may have a different idea here...

[Ice]

Cultural difference here.

As a european, my idea of self-defense is "run first, respond in another way only if running is impossible". An american may have a different idea here...

Where was she supposed to run to? He backed her into a wall.

Edit: I should say door after looking at the picture again. She verbally instructed him to stop and he kept advancing on her. If he would have stopped and she would have stepped forward and smashed him in the face, than yeah she would be the one at fault.

[Hosakawa Tito]

The child has no good excuse for his actions, even if somehow "wronged" in the class, absolutely none. The 6 P's are lacking. Proper Parenting Prevents Piss Poor Performance. If the parents initiated this law suit, then they are a large part of Junior's problem.

[TheLastDays]

When backed up into a corner, running might not be so succsfull...

1) Yes, a teacher is there to create a learning environment, the school has to help, classes with up to 30 students don't really help and yes, of course you have to find the reasons for such behavior and as a teacher I'd constantly try to ask myself what I should do better...

that said...

2) The raising of a child is not the responsibility of a school system or it shouldn't be, imo. I'm fed up with parents that don't want to take the responsibility of teaching their kids the values of discipline, respect and overall a positive and loving attitude towards life, their own and that of others... A school/teacher can only do so much when a child learns nothing but destruction at home

that said...

3) an 18 year old is old enough to be responsible for his actions and to calculate what consequences they will have for him. I did a lot of stupid things in school. Who's to blame for that? My teachers? Certainly not, I myself hold the respnsibility for my actions and I do so proudly as it makes me a mature human being.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

An eighteen year old is a legal adult and could have been charged with assault and battery. Actions taken to prevent or minimize the assault/battery would typically be held as self defense, unless you apply the standard of "grievous harm," as the only justification for violence.